Fleischer Contradicts Rove: We ‘Determined The Timing,’ Karl ‘Just Has His Facts Wrong’ On Iraq
Fleischer Contradicts Rove: We ‘Determined The Timing,’ Karl ‘Just Has His Facts Wrong’ On Iraq
On the Charlie Rose show a little over a week ago, former Bush political adviser Karl Rove attempted to re-write the history of the Iraq war, claiming that “the administration was opposed” to holding the pre-war Iraq vote just ahead of the 2002 elections. “We didn’t think it belonged within the confines of the election,” Rove told Rose.
As ThinkProgress has documented, key leaders in both the House and the Senate were asking Bush in 2002 to delay the Iraq war vote, but were rebuffed when Bush told then-Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle (D-SD) that “we just have to do this now.” On MSNBC yesterday, former White House Chief of Staff Andrew Card disputed Rove’s account, saying “that’s not the way it worked.”
In the Washington Post this morning, Rove’s revisionist history is further discredited by then-White House Press Secretary Ari Fleischer, who says flatly that Rove is wrong:
Ari Fleischer, the White House press secretary at the time, said Daschle had pressed Bush over the summer to bring the matter to Congress but for consultation, not necessarily a vote. Bush decided to seek a vote authorizing force, Fleischer said. “It was definitely the Bush administration that set it in motion and determined the timing, not the Congress,” he said. “I think Karl in this instance just has his facts wrong.”
Despite the fact that multiple members of the administration have now disputed his account, Rove is still clinging to his false claims. In an interview with the Post yesterday, he said it was “disingenuous” for “Democrats to suggest they didn’t want to vote on it before the election”:
Rove repeated his assertion in an interview yesterday, pointing to comments made by Democrats in 2002 that they wanted a vote. “For Democrats to suggest they didn’t want to vote on it before the election is disingenuous,” he said. The vote schedule, he said, was set by lawmakers. “We don’t control that.”
As the Politico’s John Bresnahan, who covered Congress in 2002, wrote yesterday, “Rove’s assertion that Congress was pushing for a quick vote on the use-of-force resolution is just not credible at all.”
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Oh oh. Rove is a liar. What amazing news.
December 1st, 2007 at 2:09 pm“Karl ‘Just Has His Facts Wrong’ On Iraq”
December 1st, 2007 at 2:11 pm- - Yeah, and Rove isn’t any good at math either.
They’re all liars and bullsh*t artists.
December 1st, 2007 at 2:20 pmHow about: THEY’RE ALL LYING!
Facts wrong? Bullshit.
Poor memory? Bullshit.
They’re lying. Don’t trust anything anyone in the administration says about anything. They lie.
December 1st, 2007 at 2:22 pm“Karl… just has his facts wrong”
And it’s not like facts are important if you’re a republican, they just get in the way of ideology, opinion and logic.
December 1st, 2007 at 2:29 pmFrom http://www.vetvoice.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=169 :
Benchmarks..reminder (0.00 / 0)
Those benchmarks are about to have their birthday on January 10;
To establish its authority, the Iraqi government plans to take responsibility for security in all of Iraq’s provinces by November. To give every Iraqi citizen a stake in the country’s economy, Iraq will pass legislation to share oil revenues among all Iraqis. To show that it is committed to delivering a better life, the Iraqi government will spend $10 billion of its own money on reconstruction and infrastructure projects that will create new jobs. To empower local leaders, Iraqis plan to hold provincial elections later this year. And to allow more Iraqis to re-enter their nation’s political life, the government will reform de-Baathification laws, and establish a fair process for considering amendments to Iraq’s constitution.
George W. Bush
The surge was supposed to provide the “pause” to allow this to all happen.
We have been told time and again, by the Bush apologists, that the military part of the surge has worked. I will not argue with that.
But, have the Bush apologists fallen into their own trap?
The military component has worked, we have been reminded repeatedly.
Bush established the benchmarks. One of them had a date certain, November.
If the US part worked, then what do they say now?
December 1st, 2007 at 2:33 pmby: Colonel “Joe” USAR @ Sat Dec 01, 2007 at 13:32:06 PM EST
December 1st, 2007 at 2:38 pmElections in Russia start now
(Vladivostock)
They’re lying. Don’t trust anything anyone in the administration says about anything. They lie.
Comment by Bob — December 1, 2007 @ 2:22 pm
EVERYTHNG the Bushies say is a lie…….9/11, elections, Al-CIAda, Osama “Emanual” Bin Goldstein, Katrina, Musharraf, Hussein, North Korea, Global Warming, WMDs, War, Creationism, Fundamentalism, Iran, The Economy, Russia, China, Wiretaps, Afghanistan….Did I leave anything out?
These people are going to be living on a huge plantation in Paraguay in the neighborhood of the rest of the Escaped Nazis and their families.
December 1st, 2007 at 2:40 pmI am shocked, shocked to learn Karl Rove is a lying sack of shit.
Shocked!
-GSD
December 1st, 2007 at 2:41 pmOr maybe Rove is trying very hard to rewrite history…and he’s lieing. Well that is sort of the M.O. for this admistration.
How can you tell if a Repukian is lieing…their lips are moving. He he, yeah, yeah, everyone knows that one, I know.
Bush/Cheney
Hague Trials ‘09
Buck Fush
December 1st, 2007 at 2:43 pmCaptain Mantastic,
December 1st, 2007 at 2:49 pmDo you read or listen to “ALL” what Rep. Murtha actually was saying? You probably only read what Fox news told you to read,right?
Here’s another question for you, Captain Mantastic:
What happens when al Sadr Muqtada declares his 6 months cease-fire over, what cease-fire you ask?
The cease-fire he declared on Aug 29, just as the troop surge was completed! The 6 months re-stock and resupply for al Sadr should be over around Mid-March, just as thousands of over-extended troops are supposed to start coming home. He’ll be “Ready to Roll again!
How about getting back in touch then with TP?
Once again KR and those like him choose party over country. Right now KR could tell me the sky is blue and grass is green and I wouldn’t believe him.
December 1st, 2007 at 2:52 pmWell, while we are on the subject of people who were wrong; at some point TP will have to address this:
I could go back and find them, but there were plenty of posts here explaining how the surge couldn’t work (Murtha was the lead) and plenty of posts here about how Paetraeus was disingenuous (to put it politely).
The sooner TP addresses this miscalculation, the sooner it can begin to repair its reputation on the topic.
Comment by CaptainMantastic — December 1, 2007 @ 2:31 pm
One statistic and one statistic only is true…Novemner US Deaths were down to “only” 40″. I’m sure the families of those killed are happy they were fighting for “Freedom and Democracy”……er….Likud Party……Ummmm……Halliburton?…………Ohhhhh…..Exxon/Mobil?….Would you believe Lockheed?
Iraqi deaths are as high as ever. Sunnis and Shites are shooting at each other now, and slowed down against US troops. Another aspect is Sadr’s paramilitary Medhi army has agreed to a cease fire.
See here for stats on Occupation Deaths including archives:
http://antiwar.com/updates/?articleid=11991
December 1st, 2007 at 2:53 pmCaptain Mantastic,
So we can bring the troops home now, right?
Yes or no: bring the troops home. Answer the question.
December 1st, 2007 at 2:54 pmCaptain Mantastic,
Now stop trying to divert the thread. Back on topic, you lockstepping Bush bootlicker:
Karl Rove, pathological liar or no?
December 1st, 2007 at 2:55 pmThe “surge” has clearly reduced attacks in certain areas of Iraq, just as the ongoing ethnic warfare has, but it’s a mistake to think of this as anything approaching a permanent solution. It’s absurd to celebrate the surge as a success, if it isn’t permanent or doesn’t provide for a permanent solution. There isn’t much reason at this point to believe it will, if only because it’s just too soon.
And there’s that whole element of returning Iraqis. Things could get ugly again very quickly.
December 1st, 2007 at 2:55 pmAnd try not to be a pussy. All of the other freaks sent over here by Red State or the RNC seem to be pussies.
December 1st, 2007 at 2:56 pmI smell a fish–actually two of them. Fleischer has no halo. He is cut from the same cloth as Rove and neither is stupid. This may be a well-calculated play going on here between the two of them, as Rove never says or does anything without planning its marketability.
Working outside the White House now gives them both more room to maneuver Heads we lose, tails they win.
December 1st, 2007 at 2:59 pmViolence is down in some areas. In other large areas we simply don’t know what is happening. We control very little territory in Iraq. Most of the drop in violence is because over 2 million people have fled the country, and another 2 million have fled their homes for other places within Iraq, and over half a million have already died. The neighborhoods have partitioned along sectarian lines and are mostly controlled now by various sectarian militia groups. This reduces the intensity of violence, but will only prolong its duration, possibly for decades to come. This is the horrible legacy of Bush’s failed adventure in Iraq. Goosesteppers like Mantastic, Manslagt, Kilo, Dreamcrusher, CHL and all the other Bush political footsoldiers have blood on their consciences.
December 1st, 2007 at 3:01 pmI think Rove has been living with his lies so long, he’s remembering some of them as truth.
December 1st, 2007 at 3:02 pmKarl Rove is just expanding on the Bush regime’s biggest propaganda coup in redefining the Resolution for the Use of Force as a “vote to go to war” to spread the culpability for the invasion to include Democrats and neutralize their political advantage on the issue. It was not a declaration of war nor was it intended to give Bush a blank check to invade. The Frank Luntz tested phrase “a vote to go to war” was first deployed against John Kerry by a compliant Corporate Media “journalist” that caught Kerry by surprise and caused him to fumble. It has since been used to tie Democrats to the invasion and occupation of Iraq to great success.
December 1st, 2007 at 3:03 pmcaption:
“This booger is for YOU!”
December 1st, 2007 at 3:05 pmFirst of all, queen ari should have stepped up and said “when somebody’s facts were wrong”
WHIlE HE WAS ON THE JOB DOING GOVERNMENT WORK!
Second : Karl rove had his facts wrong?
No………… I am shocked.
December 1st, 2007 at 3:05 pmComment by CaptainMantastic — December 1, 2007
The reason for the surge was to give the Iraqi government room and to gain control of the country. The recent Bush Maliki agreement show that the surge didnt really work and we have no exit plan. In fact the recent agreement means, what we knew, that Iraq is a colonial experiment. Almost exactly like the one Churchill was running in 1920 Iraq.
December 1st, 2007 at 3:06 pmRove is an objective twoofer who does not exist in a reality based world.
December 1st, 2007 at 3:07 pmhe is not saying this because he is regretting anything. Far from it. He is proud that the decision was made by his team.
December 1st, 2007 at 3:08 pmDon’t be upset with me. He’s your guy. You explain it.
Comment by CaptainMantastic — December 1, 2007 @ 3:00 pm
You are repeatedly and dishonestly misrepresenting the context of Murtha’s remarks. The reasons for the drop in violence are precisely the reasons that political reconciliation is all but impossible now and will be for years to come, ensuring great bloodshed and misery in Iraq. And to think that you and your Neocon masters said the Iraqi would throw flowers and name a central square somewhere after Bush.
Here is another question, pussy: why do we need permanent bases in Iraq, and why do the vast majority citizens their hate us?
December 1st, 2007 at 3:09 pmDon’t be upset with me. He’s your guy. You explain it.
Comment by CaptainMantastic
Rove is your necessary evil [Laura says so] guy. Dont be upset with me.
December 1st, 2007 at 3:10 pmYou explain his revisionist history.
This thread is about some aid to the President’s recollection of the timing of the Iraq vote. 5 years ago. Fascinating.
But he repeated it again recently. At least Murtha is honest enough to publicly announce his change of mind [opinion]
Karl, meanwhile, being a crackpot realist, cannot for the life of him admit that he was wrong about ANYTHING.
December 1st, 2007 at 3:13 pm“At the same time, one of the leaders of the Democratic opposition to the most divisive issues since the war began, has done a 180.”
Actually, no. But if that gives you comfort, go ahead and embrace it. It’s not like your guys have a track record of actually telling the truth, or anything, eh, Mr. Mobilebiologicalweaponslabs?
December 1st, 2007 at 3:14 pmIs that credible.
Comment by CaptainMantastic — December 1, 2007 @ 3:09 pm
Maybe you and your pals at RNC headquarters should take a look at the polls to see what Americans think is credible. 70% of the people in this country sure don’t see Bush as credible, and they don’t see the “surge” strategy as credible. And why do you think that is so? Could it have anything to do with six years of relentless lying by the administration, led by Karl Rove? With your typical Republican win-at-all-costs, two-wrongs-make-a-right, ends-justify-the-means values, you have chosen sides against this country and its Constitution. But now your time is coming to an end, and your foul party is destined for decades of super-minority status. You are a 24%er going down to a 15%er before its over.
The lies this administration told 5 years ago still matter today.
December 1st, 2007 at 3:17 pmKarl has his facts wrong because he’s a lying sack of shit.
December 1st, 2007 at 3:32 pmIf the facts were wrong then the war was based on fiction
December 1st, 2007 at 3:35 pmEveryone I have heard talk about Rove’s assertion has said he is wrong. But then again, many of us here have never believed a word Rove has ever said anyway, so this is nothing new.
December 1st, 2007 at 4:01 pmTomorrow, on FOX News Sunday (if you can bear to watch that vile channel) the chairman of the DCCC, rep. van Hollan, is going to discuss this with Rove.
If he can make Rove prove himself to be a jackass it might be worth watching.
Maybe TP or C&L will run the video.
To Captain Mantastic:
This is excerpted from Huffingpon Post.com
War proponents have seized on the words of Rep. John Murtha, D-PA.
But the congressman’s statement was far more nuanced than what is being reported and echoes his previous statements.
Murtha did acknowledge that the surge has led to military successes. But he also warned repeatedly that the Iraqis were not doing enough to capitalize on those gains.
Since expressing skepticism over the war in November 2005, Murtha has consistently applauded the capabilities of the troops but also emphasized that, in the absence of political progress among the Iraqi government, their work would be for naught. When President Bush rolled out his surge proposal in 2007, he opposed the idea because “it meant depleting readiness at home or extending the tours of troops in the war zone.”
Murtha harped on the lack of political and diplomatic progress in Iraq.
And he spoke worrisomely about the status of America’s armed forces: “I keep stressing we can no longer afford to spend 14 billion a month on the war and let our readiness slip in other parts of the country.”
Murtha discussed the violence caused by private contractors. “They are out of control,” said the congressman. “There are more of them than there are troops.” And he criticized America’s military equipment shortage, noting that troops were leasing heavy-lift helicopters from Russia because the domestic crop had either worn down or weren’t readily available.
Yet even in opening up the possibility for legislative compromise, the congressman remained convinced that the soldiers in Iraq would best be served returning home.
December 1st, 2007 at 4:12 pmSpeaking of lying liars and their lies - here is Rummy at WaPo on Chavez
December 1st, 2007 at 4:14 pmhttp://www.washingtonpost.com/ wp-dyn/ content/ article/ 2007/ 11/ 30/ AR2007113001800.html
Never mind that it was a REPUBLICAN CONTROLLED Congress at the time. Never mind that said Republican Congress was in total lock-step thanks to Newt Gingritch’s previous efforts, and thusly controlled utterly how and when any piece of legislation went to the floor of either the House or the Senate.
Hey, look back up here, in to my eyes! Don’t worry about what my hands are doing, just pay attention to the flapping of my lips.
Nice try, Karl. The Democrats couldn’t have passed gas in the Congress without Republican approval during the 109th, much less been responsible for speeding up a vote to go to war before an election.
December 1st, 2007 at 4:17 pmBut he repeated it again recently. At least Murtha is honest enough to publicly announce his change of mind [opinion]
Karl, meanwhile, being a crackpot realist, cannot for the life of him admit that he was wrong about ANYTHING.
Comment by Xisithrus — December 1, 2007 @ 3:13 pm
You know, that’s what’s perhaps the most maddening thing. These idiots never admit their errors. It’s always: “We could have done it better”. “Someone down the chain didn’t exercise good judgment”. Or, everybody’s favorite, “Clinton did it”.
How different would our world be if any one of them had said, “I screwed up and need help to fix the problem I’ve created”? Alas, it hasn’t happened and probably won’t. Instead, they’ll have to be dragged down, kicking and snarling, one by one.
What a pity that so much that was good has been turned to sh!t. For foolish pride as much as any other reason.
December 1st, 2007 at 4:30 pmNo British soldiers killed in hostile fire for 3 months next week
December 1st, 2007 at 4:56 pm“Does anyone know if Ari Fleischer has dual Israeli / Unted States citizenship?”
Comment by delafield
Dual citizenship - with Hades. He’s got a condo on the Styx, right next to Cheney’s.
December 1st, 2007 at 5:34 pmI’ll be damned. Rove lied about the Iraq War? Color me shocked.
December 1st, 2007 at 5:45 pmWhat a pity that so much that was good has been turned to sh!t. For foolish pride as much as any other reason.
Comment by pete — December 1, 2007 @ 4:30 pm
Indeed.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/higgs/higgs68.html
Rove has left office, escaping his morass, and is now blaming the congressional successors [Democrats] Rove is quite easy to see through.
December 1st, 2007 at 5:52 pmBush needed to get the war started before the election because he knew he’d more likely be re-elected only if he had the claim of “war president”. Whatever happened after he started his war didn’t matter. He had the tools and a republican congress to get what he wanted. Voter fraud, lies, pending deaths and destruction didn’t matter because he waited a LONG time to start this war. From before he was selected by the crooked Supreme Court he’d already planned this war. “He tried to kill my daddy.” If he could have started it in January 2000, he would have. But it took 9/11 to get him a pass, even by the republican congress. So he HAD to get the war started Before The Election of 2004 or he would have been through then.
December 1st, 2007 at 6:03 pmKarl creates reality for the drunken bubble boy preznit…he thinks he can just keep on keeping on.
December 1st, 2007 at 7:00 pmDo not respond to Mantastic. The very name indicates that he has problems with his manhood. We all know what Murtha said. It is the same thing that the military has said. There can be no long lasting peace in Iraq unless a political solution is achieved. Most agree that you can limit violence by increasing military presence. Mantastic should just come out of the closet so that he does not have to display this overboard he-man antics.
December 1st, 2007 at 7:45 pmBeautiful . . .
Tough job to be the mouthpiece for the spinmeister.
Ari didn’t agree, but he spewed until mortality re-surfaced . . . at which point morality did too.
Ari quit . . . morally, he could no longer spew the line.
Truth reigns . . . Ari no longer feels nor speaks “the love.”
Here’s to wishing Ari all the good. Speak your truth, write a book about the lies and lay the foundation for a Bush Legacy based upon the truth.
If you can do that, send it to the SMU Bush Institute of Spin. Balance is always a good thing.
(FOX - got that?)
December 1st, 2007 at 7:49 pmAri,
If you’re out there . . . I sincerely wish you and your family the best. Happy holidays.
[Not a troll, but a human . . . just because I disagreed with your posturing doesn’t mean that I didn’t appreciate your wit and humanity . . . thoughts with you . . .]
December 1st, 2007 at 8:27 pmDoes anyone know if Ari Fleischer has dual Israeli / Unted States citizenship?
Comment by delafield — December 1, 2007 @ 5:13 pm
People with Dual Israeli/American Citizenship
Benjamin Netanyahu — former Israeli Prime Minister; said 9-11 was “good†for US, officer in elite, secret unit of Israeli military called “Sayeret Matkalâ€
Henry Kissinger — long criminal history; wanted for war crimes in several countries; sat on War Policy Board under Perle; chosen to lead 9-11 Cover-Up Omission Commission; “dual citizen†of US and Israel
William Kristol — PNAC co-founder; adherent of Leo Strauss; editor of The Weekly Standard; strong advocate of the Iraq war; “dual citizen†of US and Israel
Michael Cherkasky — CEO of Kroll on 9-11; former investigator in the Manhattan DA’s Office from 1978 to 1994; now CEO of insurance-firm Marsh & McClennan
Jules Kroll — founder of Kroll Corporation, a “security services†company which was in charge of “security†at WTC on 9-11; has close links to CIA and is active private military contractor in Iraq
Larry Silverstein — he and partner Frank Lowy obtained 99-year lease on WTC shortly before 9-11; made several billion dollars on 9-11 insurance fraud; admitted to “pulling†WTC 7
Daniel Lewin — officer in elite, secret unit of Israeli military called “Sayeret Matkalâ€; orchestrated activities of Mossad agents in USA before 9-11; was allegedly stabbed or “shot†by highjacker Satam al-Suqami before AA flight 11 crashed into the WTC
Michael Chertoff — Assistant Attorney General on 9-11; freed over 100 Israeli spies in the US after 9-11; promoted to head Homeland Security;co-author of the patriot act.“dual citizen†of US and Israel; likely Mossad agent
Benjamin Chertoff — 25-year-old cousin of Michael Chertoff; senior “researcher†for Popular Mechanics’ hit piece on 9-11 Truth Movement
Dominic Suter — Mossad agent; his front company, Urban Moving Systems, employed the five Mossad agents caught celebrating in New York on 9-11,
Sivan Kurzberg — driver of van belonging to the celebrating Israelis; when stopped by police on 9-11, he said “We are Israelis. We are not your problem. Your problems are our problems. The Palestinians are your problemâ€
Jack Abramoff — entertained USG “terrorist†patsy Mohammed Atta on his yacht just before 9-11; convicted criminal lobbyist
Lewis “Scooter†Libby — former PNAC member; studied political science at Yale under Paul Wolfowitz; aid to Cheney; convicted for lying about outing of Valerie Plame; “dual citizen†of US and Israel
Elliot Abrams — former member of PNAC, National Security Council; pleaded guilty in 1991 to lying to Congress about Iran-Contra affair; “dual citizen†of US and Israel
Ari Fleischer — White House spokesman for Bush on 9-11; “dual citizen†of US and Israel; connected to the extremist group called the Chabad Lubavitch Hasidics
Philip Zelikow — led the 9-11 Cover-Up Commission; personally wrote the 9-11 Omission Commission Report, a best-selling work of fiction; appointed Counselor of US Department of State; “dual citizen†of US and Israel
Marc Grossman — Under Secretary for Political Affairs on 9-11; met with General Mahmoud Ahmad, head of Pakistan’s ISI and 9-11 financier, on or shortly after 9-11; “dual citizen†of US and Israel
George Tenet — director of the CIA on 9-11; was awarded the “Medal of Freedom†by Bush for his fine work on 9-11; reported to be “dual citizen†of US and Israel
Dov Zakheim — Pentagon comptroller when 2.3 trillion dollars reported missing on 9-10-01; “dual citizen†of US and Israel; Shul Rabbi; former CFR member; former CEO of fly-by-remote manufacturer; reputed 9-11 mastermind
Douglas Feith — effectively in command, with Wolfowitz, of War Department on 9-11; Undersecretary of War for Policy; “dual citizen†of US and Israel; investigated for spying for Israel; former PNAC member
Paul Wolfowitz — Deputy Secretary of War on 9-11; “dual citizen†of US and Israel; investigated for spying for Israel; former PNAC member; chief architect of Iraq war; forced to resign in World Bank scandal
Richard Perle — former assistant Secretary of War, chairman War Policy Board, and PNAC member; “dual citizen†of US and Israel; allegedly gave $100,000 to head of Pakistan’s ISI, Mahmoud Ahmad; nicknamed “Prince of Darknessâ€
December 1st, 2007 at 8:46 pmPlanting hatred Arous: You Posted:
Ari Fleischer — White House spokesman for Bush on 9-11; “dual citizen†of US and Israel; connected to the extremist group called the Chabad Lubavitch Hasidics
What is wrong with you?
This is a liberal blogg but you undermine its credibility by posting this nonsense.
December 1st, 2007 at 9:46 pmDear Hate Montering Arous:
While not a fan of the nonsense that Ari spewed as press guy by no means is the man “connected to the extremist group called the Chabad Lubavitch Hasidics.”
You apparently went to a bit of trouble to compile your list, your list lost all credibility with this one assertion.
Your list is crap.
If you truly want to advocate liberal causes, start with the truth.
December 1st, 2007 at 9:51 pmOops. Should have been “Hate Mongering” not “Hate Montering.”
December 1st, 2007 at 9:55 pm#53 BFPA
December 1st, 2007 at 10:02 pmAre you sure that list is accurate?
If so, that is pretty revealing and it explains so much of their behavior.
This is interesting, though.
Karl Rove: an embarrassment to the Republican Party. He’s to be exiled to Bill Bennettland, playing softball with Hannity and O’Reilly on Fox. They put him out to pasture with his Newsweek column.
The Republican powers that be know that the future of the Republicans means distance from Bush and Rove. No justification of the run up to the war, please.
The PTB are edging out Hastert and Lott and the other embarrassments as well.
I think their strategy is to field a new, young team around 2010. Fresh telegenic Dan Quayles who can appeal to America’s xenophobia and hatred of taxes without this plane crash of an administration to weigh them down.
And Card and Fleischer have just told the PTB that they want on with that team.
December 1st, 2007 at 10:10 pmSeptember 13, 2002:
Q Mr. President, thank you. Are you concerned that Democrats in Congress don’t want a vote there until after U.N. action?
THE PRESIDENT: Democrats waiting for the U.N. to act? I can’t imagine an elected United States — elected member of the United States Senate or House of Representatives saying, I think I’m going to wait for the United Nations to make a decision. It seems like to me that if you’re representing the United States, you ought to be making a decision on what’s best for the United States. If I were running for office, I’m not sure how I’d explain to the American people — say, vote for me, and, oh, by the way, on a matter of national security, I think I’m going to wait for somebody else to act.
And so I — we’ll see. My answer to the Congress is, they need to debate this issue and consult with us, and get the issue done as quickly as possible. It’s in our national interests that we do so. I don’t imagine Saddam Hussein sitting around, saying, gosh, I think I’m going to wait for some resolution. He’s a threat that we must deal with as quickly as possible.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/ news/ releases/ 2002/ 09/ 20020913.html
The Iraq Resolution was agreed to on October 2.
December 1st, 2007 at 10:14 pmWell, Murtha said “The surge is working.”
We also found out recently that greenhouse gas plays no roll in “global warming.”
What are you going to be wrong about next? My guess is that nationalized health care works. Because we already know it doesn’t. You just haven’t caught on, yet. Kind of like how you’ve been wrong about Iraq and wrong about “global warming.”
December 1st, 2007 at 10:14 pmMarie - HELLO!
The list is inaccurate. It explains nothing.
December 1st, 2007 at 10:29 pm#53 BFPA
Are you sure that list is accurate?
If so, that is pretty revealing and it explains so much of their behavior.
Comment by Marie — December 1, 2007 @ 10:02 pm
This is culled from a bunch of sources, but the information has been available for years. The Right Wing or War Parties of all countries are united. Likud, Republicans, Neo-Con Ass Kissing Democrats, Pakistan, Sarkozy, Merkel. It is a shame that our government and the American people have to play second fiddle to Israel, while the infrastructure of the USA crumbles.
December 1st, 2007 at 10:31 pmMarie - HELLO!
The list is inaccurate. It explains nothing.
Comment by rockyroad — December 1, 2007 @ 10:29 pm
Hey Rockhead!! Do your homework. I have been following the State of the Right Wing in Israel since 1963, and it’s relation of power in this country. Look up the USS Liberty for instance. These people all are dual citizens.
December 1st, 2007 at 10:34 pmEh? “The State of Right Wing in Israel”?
Sounds nutty.
December 2nd, 2007 at 12:29 am#63. With all due respect . . . since 1963? Damn. You should have been in therapy. I’ll bet that you have children and grand children . . . therapy . . . then seek out your family.
December 2nd, 2007 at 12:36 amSadness is what I feel when I respond to #63. I’ve dealt with Viet Nam vets who live in the woods in Oregon, despite the fact that they have homes and families. Today, we are seeing vets, overmedicated and told to integrate.
Take care of our vets. Our decision [I opposed the war, but that’s really irrelevant when it comes to this] to go to war has created a mass of casualties. These are our boys and girls. Let’s give them our best and their due.
December 2nd, 2007 at 12:44 am“Captain Mantastic,
Do you read or listen to “ALL†what Rep. Murtha actually was saying?”
Don’t bother, captain Mantastic (creepy homoerotic name if you ask me) was repeatedly quoted the full context of the quote and he ignored it. There is no actual intellectual honesty in that one.
December 2nd, 2007 at 12:58 am“Captain Mantastic”!? You’ve got to be kidding.
Nothing after that even matches the list (see above).
Unbelieveable.
December 2nd, 2007 at 1:15 amMANTASTIC!
WTF?
Twilight zone.
December 2nd, 2007 at 1:17 amdelafield, that was a link for freedom. I think a little debunking is in order for these hacks :)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom’s_Watch
http://www.iht.com/ articles/ 2007/ 09/ 30/ news/ watch.php
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ html/ politics/ 2003913758_freedomwatch30.html
Most conservatives really hate MoveOn.org for its obvious political bent. These guys say they are the conservative MoveOn.
Oh, here is the best link to them…by conservatives (who don’t like Jews).
http://www.amconmag.com/2007/2007_10_08/article1.html
December 2nd, 2007 at 2:40 amComment by muckdog — December 1, 2007 @ 10:14 pm
suckdog, renew your prescription. your delusions are overtaking reality again.
December 2nd, 2007 at 9:52 amHey Captain Maniac what happened to “Our troop will stand down when their troops stand up”, or did you forget that part. Of course the so called “surge” is working. If you put 15,000 cops in a bad part of any city 24 hours a day, crime will go down. Once they leave crime goes right back up, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure that one out. By the way, this particular article wasn’t about the surge, it is about how Rove lied to spread propaganda and change history. That seems Clintonian to me, how bout you? You morons who claim to be conservative Republicans cry foul when others try to change history, but for you it’s “setting the facts straight”. The ironic thing is most if not all Republicans are militaristic fools who are hurting democracy by supporting tin horns wanna be dictators clothed in the American flag (Republican) elected officials. These men don’t care about America or Americans, they crave power for power and that’s the bottom line. They don’t care about what you really think, they use wedge issues to get fools like you to vote for them. You wouldn’t be welcome at the Country Club in the Hamptons, now would you?
December 2nd, 2007 at 10:06 am#63. With all due respect . . . since 1963? Damn.
Comment by rockyroad — December 2, 2007 @ 12:36 am
Yes, and JFK was adamantly opposed to Israel possessing Nuclear Weapons, as well as escalation in Vietnam He wanted to basically dismantle the CIA, was thought of as a “communist”, and to top it off, was sleeping with Mafia mob bosses wives. This time was a watershed moment in modern American history. 1947 may have been the year the USA started placing ex-Nazis in power through Paperclip, but 1963 was when “The King was crucified” in front of the world. Eisenhower’s warning in 1961 about “The Military Industrial Complex” was now in it’s earlier stages. The next summer, the staged Gulf of Tonkin was set, and with the exception of the late 1960s early 1970s halting it’s juggernaut, we have been brainwashed into believing militarization is the way to go. Now, the media is essentially run by this Military Industrial Complex, and even the most popular entertainers in respective music genres (Britney Spears, 50 Cent, Toby Keith) are big Bush/War supporters.
December 2nd, 2007 at 12:23 pmI also want to add that the USA first placed Nuclear missiles pointed at Russia from Turkey BEFORE Russia put them in Cuba. What children are being taught about history leaves out 1/2 of the information. This is called Information Cleansing and Half Truths. Kennedy and Khrushchev did not want war, but the Nazi and Military Industrial Complex infested KGB and CIA did.
December 2nd, 2007 at 12:26 pmLet’s see. Saddam has been deposed and 8 million Iraqis went to the polls to choose their own leaders. Republicans should be ashamed.
Comment by CaptainMantastic — December 2, 2007 @ 1:04 pm
Let’s see, 1 million Iraqis killed, 4000 American Troops Killed, 25,000 Seriously injured, Oil price doubled, Pakistan about to be taken over by another coup, China and Saudi Arabia own the USA, North Korea blowing off nukes, The USA is the most hated country on the planet, and our Constitution ripped to shreds as well as a Military Industrial Complex owned Media posing as a “Liberal” media.
Heck of a Job, Bedbuglicans!!!!
December 2nd, 2007 at 8:14 pmBrian from Planet Arous -
Re: With all due respect . . .
You make good points. My point is that the Israeli right, like the Russians, the Arabs and every other right wing branch of a country with an agenda is not the biggest problem that America faces . . . the primary problem is right here at home. I have seen the enemy and it is us.
We have allowed the presidency to be stolen through misconduct that reaches to the highest offices of our government, our president and Supreme Court, we have permitted ourselves to be duped into a disasterous war, we have permitted media consolidation and thereby consolidated the voices that inform us. We have permitted lobbyists and money from whatever sources to determine American policy. We have left destitute Gulf Coast citizens while spending billions and sacrificing American lives for a sham in Iraq. You describe explosive growth in and the power of the military-industrial complex as a “juggernaut.” An apt description. The efforts of conglomerates to purchase media companies to advance their commercial agendas has resulted in media consolidation and in the media becoming a mouthpiece for the administration. Michael Powell, as Chair of the FCC cut deals with moguls to insure loyalty to Bush as a condition of consolidation . . . so not only does the public get GE’s corporate message, but that of the administration, whose ass GE kissed to get its media gems.
I don’t disagree . . . but when considering the terrible state of affairs in America today, it is silly to point the finger of blame at Isreal.
Kind of like blaming Iraq for the World Trade Center.
December 2nd, 2007 at 9:10 pmI don’t disagree . . . but when considering the terrible state of affairs in America today, it is silly to point the finger of blame at Isreal.
Kind of like blaming Iraq for the World Trade Center.
Comment by rockyroad — December 2, 2007 @ 9:10 pm
Iraq and Israel are two different situations. Again, and it bears repeating, the Right Wing of Israel, Likud/Zionists practically control the media in this country. The military industrial complex is dependent on a willing populace. The media has been called forth to sell the war to willing populace, and not accurately report it. Calling the media “liberal” is one of the best acts of Bizarro World propaganda.
Our sorry state of affairs is caused by a multitude of problems, but greed is at the bottom of it. You can throw in pesticides, hormones, Aspartame, SSRIs, linear drugs, militarized dumbed-down culture, and Fear itself.
Israel is as much of a problem to the peace of the world as the USA is, and to ignore it is just plain foolish. Anybody that thinks it is “anti-Semitic”can go jump in the same lake as when they say it is “racist” to criticize Sharpton or Rap music. In fact, I think you would do yourself a favor, and investigate how much AIPAC gives to all of the Yaa-Hoo Pro War crowd, including Hillary Clinton.
December 2nd, 2007 at 10:13 pmYour list is crap.
If you truly want to advocate liberal causes, start with the truth.
Comment by rockyroad — December 1, 2007 @ 9:51 pm
And….You are a two Faced Double Blogger. Liberal causes indeed!! Liberal causes are to push into the light all aspects of Pro War propaganda INCLUDING your nonsense of ignoring Israel’s Dominant Nazi-Like Right Wing Party that is influencing US foreign policy in a major way. Pseudo-Liberals like yourself attempt to keep our eyes on Bush the Dummy, Cheney the Darth Vader, Gonzolas the Liar, Limbaugh the Drug Addict, and Coulter the Man. Meanwhile Israel getting away with what it does because of the smoke screen of the left-right fight.
In fact, forget the title of Liberal and Conservative, and lets use the term Constitutionalist.
Next……… :))
December 2nd, 2007 at 10:34 pmI saw Rove on Fox and was amazed how glib he is even as he refutes himself. And where is Wallace in this? What a load.
December 2nd, 2007 at 10:45 pmCheck out “Mantastic”
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Mantastic
December 2nd, 2007 at 10:47 pmBrian from Planet Arous:
You have a tendency to muddle issues, so dissecting, let’s talk about your issue with Jews first. You say
“. . . the Right Wing of Israel, Likud/Zionists practically control the media in this country. . . . Israel is as much of a problem to the peace of the world as the USA is. . . Our sorry state of affairs is caused by a multitude of problems, but greed is at the bottom of it. . . . investigate how much AIPAC gives to all of the Yaa-Hoo Pro War crowd, including Hillary Clinton.â€
So in your view, greedy Jews are as much of a problem as the present administration? Jews control the media and AIPAC funds the pro-war administration? Did I get that right?
While I agree that AIPAC engages in some bad conduct, to assert that the “Jew-controlled media†is the enemy is just plain evil, anti-sematic and wrong. Yes, I’ll jump in that lake and me and my Jewish family and friends will have a party.
With regard to your statement: “The media has been called forth to sell the war to willing populace, and not accurately report it. Calling the media “liberal†is one of the best acts of Bizarro World propaganda.â€
I don’t disagree.
December 2nd, 2007 at 11:06 pmDamn those greedy jews. I think Hitler propagated that theory years ago . . . he shot himself in the head for having thought it.
Unfortunately, a Jewish nation also suffered the consequences.
Since when is this blog infested by antisematicism - so much so that antisemites have the courage to blather this trash.
December 2nd, 2007 at 11:15 pmBrian,
You certainly have the right to blather what ever trash your black heart bleeds, but don’t expect for it to pass unnoticed. Feel free to slam me:
“And….You are a two Faced Double Blogger.”
What defines “a two Faced Double Blogger” is a real head scratcher . . . as is your decision regarding capitalization. Nonetheless, feel free to name call. I’m not a “greedy Jew” but I know some Jews, I have family members that are Jews, I have a very greedy boss who captains an AIPAC agenda. I can distinguish between good and evil, and I’ve got you pegged.
No nation, party or blog is all good or all evil . . . it’s just important to recognize that which is good, bad and implausible. Your presence here is implausible. You’ve revealed your bill of goods and I’m not buyin’.
December 2nd, 2007 at 11:31 pm“just has his facts wrong”
That little word “just” says so much, doesn’t it?
December 3rd, 2007 at 11:43 amKarl Rove, a traitor to the United States. What is it we do with traitors now? What is it we do with those who commit treason? I think we execute them, yes?
December 3rd, 2007 at 8:18 pm