Daschle Rebuts Rove: He’s A ‘Joke’ Who Is ‘Trying To Sell Some Books’
Daschle Rebuts Rove: He’s A ‘Joke’ Who Is ‘Trying To Sell Some Books’
On the Bill Press Show this morning, former Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle (D-SD) dismissed Karl Rove’s false claim that Democrats in Congress — not the Bush administration — forced a war vote prior to the 2002 midterm elections. Daschle called Rove’s “outrageous statements” a “joke” and a clear effort to “sell some books”:
Well, I was called last week a couple of times and I literally thought it was a joke. I thought somebody was trying to pull my leg. I can’t believe that anybody would make such an outrageous statement and I was interested in that several of the former Bush high level people have now disputed it as well. But, he’s saying it and I guess he’s trying to sell some books.
Daschle also reiterated the fact that he had “directly” asked President Bush to delay the vote on the war in September 2002:
I reminded the President that his father waited until after the election for the 1991 war. It was a wise thing to do and allowed him to build consensus around the world and de-politicize it here at home. I turned to him and said that he ought to do the same thing. I wish you’d consider that. He looked at the Vice President. They smirked a little bit and then looked at me and said. “Can’t do that.”
Listen to it:
Despite the fact that he has been contradicted by three members of the Bush administration who were involved in pre-war planning, Rove continues to push his “far-fetched” and “not-credible” story.
On Fox News Sunday yesterday, Rove cherry-picked old quotes by Daschle that he claimed as proof that Daschle wanted the pre-election vote as much as Bush did. But as Think Progress noted and Daschle reiterated today, the former Senate Majority Leader repeatedly sought to delay the vote.
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American history revisionism, in your face.
KKKarl is still getting paid to lie to America. Is this OK with you?
It’s not with me.
Thank you, Sen. Daschle, for reminding us how big the size of KKKarl’s lies are.
America isn’t buying it anymore, KKKarl. You’re a disgrace to our country and need to be charged with crimes of high treason.
How dare you! You’re a fascist pig who thinks Neoturds can do no wrong. You’ve got it backwards, pigboy. Neoturds can’t do anything right. You & Wolfie should be cleaning toilets at Leavenworth. Bastards.
December 3rd, 2007 at 11:10 amHe who controls the past, controls the future.
December 3rd, 2007 at 11:11 amYou & Wolfie should be cleaning toilets at Leavenworth. Bastards.
Comment by Zimzone — December 3, 2007 @ 11:10 am
Oh, they will be, if they aren’t hanged for treason. Either way is fine with me. I was anti-death penalty until these mass-murdering animals showed up.
December 3rd, 2007 at 11:12 amIt’s as if these Rove, Bush, Cheney, et al, have a congenital need to lie. Absolutely shameless. Rove should be in jail, alongside Scooter. Un-freakin-believable!
December 3rd, 2007 at 11:12 amHe didn’t call Rove ‘a joke’, he said that he thought was Rove said was ‘a joke’.
Very different meanings.
December 3rd, 2007 at 11:14 amWhy hasn’t Rove been arrested yet?
December 3rd, 2007 at 11:14 amJeeze, guys! Your headline makes Daschle look kinda bad. He said he thought the comment was “somebody’s” joke, not that Rove himself was a joke. He has more class than to say something like that publicly.
December 3rd, 2007 at 11:15 am“The White House pushed to hold that vote in October, just a month before the mid-term elections, and Democrats were forced to support it or risk losing their re-election campaigns.”
A decision Wellstone considered and made. He was against the war in the middle of a re-election campaign. He went with his conscience even when it was politically unpopular.
Meanwhile the rest of the “opposition” party rolled over and wrapped themselves in the flag. And they’ve pretty much given Bush everything he wants since then.
Kyl-Leiberman anyone?
December 3rd, 2007 at 11:18 amRove is a liar?
Imagine that…
December 3rd, 2007 at 11:19 am“Why hasn’t Rove been arrested yet?”
Comment by Guido OBGYN Lover — December 3, 2007 @ 11:14 am
Because he’s a lying liar who outed a CIA operative?
That pretty much guarantees a cushy retirement with these guys.
December 3rd, 2007 at 11:20 amThe trolls at this site are a joke too.
December 3rd, 2007 at 11:21 amJeeze, guys! Your headline makes Daschle look kinda bad. He said he thought the comment was “somebody’s†joke, not that Rove himself was a joke. He has more class than to say something like that publicly.
Comment by boreas — December 3, 2007 @ 11:15 am
I agree… please, TP, change the headline, it is misleading and there’s no need to claim Daschle said something he did not.
Even tho we all know Rove is, indeed, a big joke (at the expense of thousands of military deaths and hundreds of thousands of civilian casualties as well).
December 3rd, 2007 at 11:22 amWill any of our astute White House Press Corps ask the President to comment on Roves lie at the next briefing? How about something like this: “Mr. President, Karl Rove claims that the White House did not want to vote on the 2002 AUMF vote on Iraq until after the elections that year. Your former press secretrary Ari Fleischer and former Chief of Staff Andy Card says that Rove is wrong. Surely as President you know the answer, who is right?”
December 3rd, 2007 at 11:23 am“Will any of our astute White House Press Corps ask the President to comment on Roves lie”
Comment by gulfwargrunt — December 3, 2007 @ 11:23 am
The answer would be a big no.
December 3rd, 2007 at 11:25 am“Will any of our astute White House Press Corps ask the President to comment on Roves lie†-Comment by gulfwargrunt
Will Bush or any member of his cabinet actually choose a press corps member that is willing to ask a real question? Helen?
December 3rd, 2007 at 11:28 amI concur on the misleading heading.
Unless Daschle called Rove a joke somewhere else in the interview, the heading ain’t accurate.
December 3rd, 2007 at 11:30 amKarl Rove made a great many false statements when he was working for the White House. However, the White House took it upon itself to defend even the most ridiculous statements. Now, we see how Rove flounders when he doesn’t have a legion of minions willing to lie for him.
December 3rd, 2007 at 11:41 amKKKarl is a joke. A miserable joke that has run its course. That fat liar maggot should be swinging at the end of a rope.
December 3rd, 2007 at 11:43 amYou and me and every other chickenhawk scared American forced the illegal invasion vote and now we’re getting our deserved punishment from these America hating Republicans and their fake war on terror.
December 3rd, 2007 at 11:43 amI see Daschle’s testicles have finally dropped, huh?
December 3rd, 2007 at 11:43 amComment by DreamCrusher — December 3, 2007 @ 11:39 am
Wasn’t it a Republican Congress at the time?
December 3rd, 2007 at 11:44 amRove reminds me of Brittany Spears. He just needs the attention and he will do or say anything to keep getting it. Pathetic.
December 3rd, 2007 at 11:45 amHe looked at the Vice President. They smirked a little bit and then looked at me and said. “Can’t do that.â€
Smirking chympresident gets ok from darthveeper to tell Daschle to go fu(k himself…
December 3rd, 2007 at 11:46 amSomewhere out there, is a rock, waiting for rove to crawl back under it.
December 3rd, 2007 at 11:47 amI have it from reliable sources that all of the “câ€s in Karls new book have been replaced by “kâ€s. The title of the book is Big Dikk. The first sentence goes: “Kall me Karl.†The editors originally considered removing all of the lies but then realized that they probably wouldn’t be able to sell a one-page book. They’ve decided to describe the book as a tragic comedy. Trust me when I say I’m a professional and I would verify these sources but I have neither the time nor the inclination. Besides, I’m waiting for the sequel.
December 3rd, 2007 at 11:48 amHe looked at the Vice President. They smirked a little bit and then looked at me and said. “Can’t do that.â€
Smirking chympresident gets ok from darthveeper to tell Daschle to go fu(k himself…Comment by RUCerious
RUC, what kind of readings are you getting on you ‘Lyingbastardomoter’ this morning? I would guess that KKKarl proves problematic for accurate readings.
December 3rd, 2007 at 11:49 amDaschle asking Bush’s permission to delay a Senate vote? That’s leadership for you! In any case, Rove is not incorrect. Daschle and the other DLC idiots wanted the midterm elections to focus on domestic issues. It was felt that by voting early on Iraq, they could get that issue out of the way so as to defuse the issue. Great strategy, huh?
December 3rd, 2007 at 11:49 amRove has always been a proponent of the “tell a lie often enough and people will think it’s the truth.” Now he’s telling lies so often that HE seems to think they’re the truth.
Sad.
Even sadder is that there are still Americans who willingly swallow this crap.
December 3rd, 2007 at 11:52 amZim, I had to pull the plug on the LBoM before this came out.
December 3rd, 2007 at 11:52 amMy garage ceiling has seventeen holes still waiting for drywall patches…
According to my research, Daschle was Majority leader with a majority of one, that being Jeffers who switched to Independent and caucused with the Dems.
December 3rd, 2007 at 11:55 amThat said, the consensus on the Senate Floor was to press for action based on the lying bullshit they’d been fed by the White House.
Rove forgets that Daschle is merely out of the Senate — he’s not dead. And when you misquote people who are still alive, you run the risk of being refuted.
Of course, Rove figures that Daschle is POLITICALLY dead and therefore nobody will listen to him. With today’s media, he may be right.
December 3rd, 2007 at 11:57 amwtf, TP? You lose credibility with sloppy headlines like that. Please post a correction.
December 3rd, 2007 at 12:00 pmDaschle is right on! Karl Rove is a joke, a cartoon! He’s a one man show. He’s the entertainer and he’s his own audience! Hey Karl, we aren’t laughing with you, we’re laughing at you! Your time is over! The world now has your number and it’s zero!
December 3rd, 2007 at 12:01 pmLet’s get something straight…. again. Regardless of who forced whom to do what, the vote was to give the president authorization to take military action ONLY after certain requirements were met. The President had to go back to the UN for another UN authorization – he didn’t. The President had to provide written proof to congress that Saddam had the WMD’s – he didn’t. The president had to allow the weapons inspectors to finish their inspections – he didn’t; he told them to leave for their own protection and attacked. The president did not live up to any of the stipulations of the “War authorization.” It was a classic “bait and switch.” In addition to the brazen mendacity of the Bush administration, we should all be demanding an explanation on why the media did not explain all of this to the public.
December 3rd, 2007 at 12:04 pmIn addition, the president had to come back to congress every 30 days to update them on the search for weapons and what they found – he didn’t. I’m tired of people on the left and the right ignorantly spewing out the right wing revisionist line that congress “voted for the war.” They didn’t. In characteristic fasion, the Bush administration lied to congress and the American people. It’s an illegal war. Bush and his cronies are guilty of war crimes and they should be standing in the docket at the Haige.
December 3rd, 2007 at 12:08 pm37,38,
Well said Colonel, American revisionism relies on the publics short attention span.
Look at what they dump on Friday’s slow news cycles.
I like the way you summed up Bush’s ‘cooperation’…he didn’t.
December 3rd, 2007 at 12:12 pmDishonest?
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB129/index.htm
Washington D.C., 9 July 2004 – The CIA has decided to keep almost entirely secret the controversial October 2002 CIA intelligence estimate about Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction that is the subject of today’s Senate Intelligence Committee report, according to the CIA’s June 1, 2004 response to a Freedom of Information Act request from the National Security Archive.
The CIA’s response included a copy of the estimate, NIE 2002-16HC, October 2002, Iraq’s Continuing Programs for Weapons of Mass Destruction, consisting almost entirely of whited-out pages. Only 14 of the 93 pages provided actually contained text, and all of the text except for the two title pages and the two pages listing National Intelligence Council members had previously been released in July 2003. At that time, CIA responded to the first round of controversy over the Niger yellowcake story by declassifying the “Key Findings” section of the estimate and a few additional paragraphs.
The CIA’s censorship of the estimate mirrors its apparent treatment of the Senate’s own report. The Senate Intelligence Committee had previously noted, in a 17 June 2004 press release, that “The Committee is extremely disappointed by the CIA’s excessive redactions to the report.” News accounts quoting Senate sources estimate that this excessive redaction amounted to 50% of the entire text. After a month of back-and-forth, not only did a number of Senators gain an education in the subjectivity of classification, but also the CIA retreated, to a final censorship level (by word-count) of 16%. Perhaps the most egregious example of the CIA’s knee-jerk secrecy occurs on pages 49-50, when only one sentence survives censorship in the Committee’s discussion of the British White Paper – and that sentence reports that the British had actually published the Paper. Large sections of blacked-out discussion following the Committee’s Conclusions – such as the CIA’s misleading of Secretary of State Colin Powell for his February 2003 United Nations speech (pages 253-257) and the CIA’s misleading the public in its October 2002 white paper that left out the caveats, hedged language, and dissents in the underlying intelligence (pages 295-297) – are currently under declassification review by CIA. The Committee itself withheld these sections from the CIA’s review until release of the report so as not to be scooped or spun.
The estimate has been the subject of multiple public speeches, statements and testimony by CIA and other intelligence community officials – even more of which is published in today’s Senate report. These include public statements by CIA director George Tenet on 11 July 2003 and 11 August 2003, Tenet’s Georgetown speech of 5 February 2004, and NIC vice-chairman Stuart Cohen’s statement of 28 November 2003.
The Republican chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee, Sen. Pat Roberts (R-Kansas) today summed up the committee’s 511-page report as follows: “[T]oday we know these assessments were wrong. And, as our inquiry will show, they were also unreasonable and largely unsupported by the available evidence.” National Security Archive director Thomas Blanton commented, “The CIA’s continued secrecy claims on a document that has been widely and publicly discussed by top CIA officials, and now by the Senate, is wrong, unreasonable, and largely unsupported by the available evidence.”
December 3rd, 2007 at 12:13 pmAs if Cheney wasn’t stalking the halls of the CIA at that time making damn sure the report toed the Administration line…
December 3rd, 2007 at 12:15 pmDaschle said:
And therein lies the problem. The audacity and hubris of this stunt is breathtaking. Karl Rove has huge balls and he just tea-bagged America with them.
December 3rd, 2007 at 12:16 pmThe White House didn’t have any part in creating it. Do we have to go back and fish up testimony by George Tenet, and read excerpts from the NIE? Or will you stop being dishonest?
Comment by DreamCrusher — December 3, 2007 @ 12:00 pm
You’ll believe anything, creamcruiser, we’ve already established that. you are party and supporter to treason. nothing you write here has any credibility whatsoever; at best, you are a partisan hack, in reality, a supporter of treason. Lies are the coin of the republican realm, and that’s all you ever trade in; lies.
December 3rd, 2007 at 12:30 pm“The President had to go back to the UN for another UN authorization – he didn’t.â€
Eh, yes he did. Heard of resolution 1441?
which he ignored the stipulations of. You are getting stupider with every post.
December 3rd, 2007 at 12:31 pmTypical Rove, he says a lie and repeats it over and over and over again until the people finally believe it.
December 3rd, 2007 at 12:31 pm“The president did not live up to any of the stipulations of the “War authorization.â€â€
The make-believe one you have invented in your head, you mean?
no, the made-up ones in your head, liar. whydo you hate American law? Why do ou hate democracy? Why do you support lawbreakers as long as they’re Republicans/ You’re worse than a partisan hack, you’re an enemy of the USA.
December 3rd, 2007 at 12:32 pmThe Repub politicians keep saying Rove is trying to sell some books, his mouth is faster than his mind, etc. In short, make what he says seem not so important.
I can’t get over the suspicion that Karl is trying to invent a new myth for the Sheeple to let grow into the belief that Reagan, Bush, and Shrub led us into a new age of peace and tranquility. By making an audacious statement and letting others soft peddle it, this allows the lie to gain some foothold on the american mind.
And to validate my suspicions, how many people still believe that Clinton’s staff stole all the “W” keys from the computers and trashed the WH ? (on a more trivial note, there **WERE** WMDs.)
December 3rd, 2007 at 12:40 pmWeren’t there reports, that the section that handled the Iraq intelligence had several white house appointed staff members, that made sure that the official CIA estimates were pushed to make it appear Iraq was a much larger and nastier threat then it really was?
Couple that with all the Saddam was responsible for 9/11 bull, and you have a concerted effort to lie to the American people to start a war.
December 3rd, 2007 at 12:52 pmhttp://www.commondreams.org/views03/0919-14.htm
On March 18th, George W. Bush wrote to the Speaker of the House (Hastert) and the President of the Senate (Cheney) invoking the powers granted him by Public Law 107-243. Initiating the invasion of Iraq, he wrote:
“…I determine that:… [Declaring war on Iraq and] acting pursuant to the Constitution and Public Law 107-243 is consistent with the United States and other countries continuing to take the necessary actions against international terrorists and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations, or persons who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001.”
Thus the invasion of Iraq and seizure of its oil fields, was, according to George W. Bush, legally justified by 9/11.
But now he says there’s no connection between Iraq and 9/11.
Which will inevitably raise the question for many in Congress: Did George Bush deceive them and the nation in October of 2002 and March of 2003, and, in response to a reporter’s question, inadvertently blurt out an admission of that deception on September 16, 2003?
December 3rd, 2007 at 12:55 pmDreamcrusher is calling me a BS’er. I’m very busy today, but I intend to show that it is the dreamcrusher who is BSing:
I said, “The President had to go back to the UN for another UN authorization – he didn’t.â€
Dreamcrusher answered, “Eh, yes he did. Heard of resolution 1441?”
This is BS. Resolution 1441 gives no authorization for a military attack and I challenge you to site the details of 1441 that give that authorization. China, Russia and other members of the Security Council threatened to veto it if it did. Conservatives have been SAYING that 1441 gives it, but it doesn’t.
There will be more. I’m going to show everybody what a liar you are, dreamcrusher, but you’ll have to be patient because I have customers waiting, but I’m not going to let you get away with your continuing dishonesty. In fact, when you ignore my posts showing that you are a damn liar, I’m going to save them and keep shoving them in your face every time I see you on these boards. I’m tired of your B.S.
December 3rd, 2007 at 1:40 pmFor any of you who doubt that “Dreamcrusher” is a damn liar regarding U.N. Resolution 1441, here is a detailed legal analysis of the resolution: http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/forum/forumnew73.php
December 3rd, 2007 at 1:45 pmAnyone claiming that the President forced the vote is lying – the President cannot force the Congress to vote on anything.
Comment by DreamCrusher — December 3, 2007 @ 11:39 am
It’s true that the President has no official, legal, power to force a vote. This Administration, however, doesn’t let that stand in the way of their agenda. If one recalls the “reporting” of the MSM, at the time, all the neocons were hysterically proclaiming that; failure to grant all that the administration wanted, would result in a “mushroom cloud”.
The hysteria, for revenge, was still hot. The fear, of more attacks, was still palpable. Failure to bend to the will of the administration would have been professional, and political, suicide.
December 3rd, 2007 at 1:52 pmComment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper — December 3, 2007 @ 1:40 pm
Give ‘em Hell, Col. Every troll discredited improves the chance we get our country back. Of course, most of them are perfectly capable of doing so themselves but, I was taught to help wherever I can.
December 3rd, 2007 at 1:56 pmResolution 1441 fulfilled the requirement posed by the AUMF, which was what I was alluding to.
Don’t have a heart attack or anything.
Comment by DreamCrusher — December 3, 2007 @ 1:52 pm
No it didn’t you simpleton. You’re a liar, and Ripper has turned y8ou into toast.
December 3rd, 2007 at 2:01 pmAstute White House Press Corps…
Um, isn’t that an oxymoron?
December 3rd, 2007 at 2:09 pmNo it didn’t you simpleton. You’re a liar, and Ripper has turned y8ou into toast.
And you’re turning this site into a liberal version of freep. I’ll take DreamCrusher any day of the week, thanks.
Seriously, comments like #47 are just appalling and have no place in any kind of adult, reasonable discourse. I don’t care what your political views are or how much I happen to agree with them…you should be ashamed.
December 3rd, 2007 at 2:10 pmOh, and TP, I see the headline remains, hours later, after a number of comments have complained. Pretty awful “journalism” there.
If you’re going to post stuff like this, you better not complain when people complain about the quality of journalism coming from online blogs.
December 3rd, 2007 at 2:12 pmPoor wingnuts have a dilemma. Whom do they believe? Fleischer? Card? or Rove?
December 3rd, 2007 at 2:13 pmDreamcrusher: “Don’t have a heart attack or anything.”
Don’t flatter yourself. You answered my contention that we had to let the U.N. finish it’s inspections this way: “Where does the Iraq resolution say this? Complete BS.”
Here’s the part of the resolution that refers to this:
“SEC. 2. SUPPORT FOR UNITED STATES DIPLOMATIC EFFORTS.
The Congress of the United States supports the efforts by the President to–
(1) strictly enforce through the United Nations Security Council all relevant Security Council resolutions applicable to Iraq and encourages him in those efforts; and
(2) obtain prompt and decisive action by the Security Council to ensure that Iraq abandons its strategy of delay, evasion and noncompliance and promptly and strictly complies with all relevant Security Council resolutions.”
As we all know, Hans Blix was fulfilling his U.N. mandate to carry out inspections for WMD’s. As we all know, Bush told Blix and the inspectors to get out of Iraq for their own safety AFTER Saddam Hussein had allowed them in for U.N. inspections.
So far, I’ve provided a link which proves you were lying about Resolution 1441, and now I’m going to show that you’ve been lying about the 2002 War Resolution. This is only the first example.
December 3rd, 2007 at 2:14 pmComment by EvilCornbread — December 3, 2007 @ 2:10 pm
fair enough, if you also talk to the freepers about their “LIBERALS WANT OUR TROOPS TO DIE AT THE HANDS OF TERRORISTS,” “Liberals are TRAITORS” rhetoric…isn’t that appalling too?
December 3rd, 2007 at 2:21 pmAND dREAMCrusher, Bush didn’t have to say explicitly that Saddam ordered the 9/11 attacks or was tied to them. He could do it subtly and subliminally by placing 9/11 and Saddam in the same sentence as he did in the 2003 State of the Union and he could present facts in a way to reach the desired conclusion that Saddam had ties to Al Qaeda. Not everything has to be explicit.
December 3rd, 2007 at 2:24 pmI posted this: “The president did not live up to any of the stipulations of the “War authorization.â€
Dreamcrusher answered this way: “The make-believe one you have invented in your head, you mean?”
Go ahead, smart guy, read the actual text:
“(a) AUTHORIZATION- The President is authorized to use the Armed Forces of the United States as he determines to be necessary and appropriate in order to–
(1) defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq; and
(2) enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq”
The president had to come back in 60 days (I wrongly stated 30 days) to explain the threat. As we all know, there was never any compelling evidence that Iraq posed a threat to our national security. And as we all know, the president not only didn’t enforce the U.N. santioned weapons inspections, but actively undermined them by telling the inspectors to leave for their own protection.
Oh, and “evil corn bread,” I refer you to the above posts and to the link I provided discussing U.N. Resolution 1441 which show that Dreamcrusher is a damn liar.
December 3rd, 2007 at 2:25 pmI posted this: “The President had to provide written proof to congress that Saddam had the WMD’s – he didn’t.â€
Dreamcrusher answered this way: “Want to quote that part of the law? You’re BSing, it never says that.”
“SEC. 4. REPORTS TO CONGRESS.
(a) The President shall, at least once every 60 days, submit to the Congress a report on matters relevant to this joint resolution”
All Executive branch reports to Congress must be in writing, boy. Put it all together and maybe your little pea of a brain can begin to comprehend the huge “bait and switch” the Bush administration played on Congress and the American people.
December 3rd, 2007 at 2:31 pmfair enough, if you also talk to the freepers about their “LIBERALS WANT OUR TROOPS TO DIE AT THE HANDS OF TERRORISTS,†“Liberals are TRAITORS†rhetoric…isn’t that appalling too?
Yes, it unquestionably, absolutely is. Which is why I HATE that liberals on this site are doing it too.
December 3rd, 2007 at 2:32 pmDoes “a report on matters relevant to this joint resolution” necessarily mean “written proof to congress that Saddam had the WMD’s” though?
Wouldn’t a report along the lines of “yep the war’s going well we’re killing some more people this month” also count?
December 3rd, 2007 at 2:33 pmEvilcornbread: “Seriously, comments like #47 are just appalling and have no place in any kind of adult, reasonable discourse. I don’t care what your political views are or how much I happen to agree with them…you should be ashamed.”
Oh, go shove it up your keester. I’m sick of people like you who hide behind a veneer of “respectable” discussion while lying about issues which involve the needless death of hundreds of thousands of people and the subversion of our constitutional principles.
December 3rd, 2007 at 2:34 pmEvil Corn Head: “Wouldn’t a report along the lines of “yep the war’s going well we’re killing some more people this month†also count?”
No. As I have pointed out, the entire exercise was built on the presumption that Iraq posed a threat to our national security. The only way they could have presented a threat is if they had an active WMD program and we all know that they didn’t. Again, here’s one of the relevant portions of the resolution:
“(a) AUTHORIZATION- The President is authorized to use the Armed Forces of the United States as he determines to be necessary and appropriate in order to–
(1) defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq…”
WHAT CONTINUING THREAT!!!???
December 3rd, 2007 at 2:37 pmI hope everyone here reads the above posts and remembers what a goddamn liar “Dreamcrusher” is. And, he’s not lying about trivial things. He’s lying and obfuscating about the most important things – things regarding a criminal administration lying to congress and the American people to start an illegal shooting war. This is the absolute worst thing a president and his adminstration could possibly do and it’s part of what makes Bush the worst president in the history of our country.
December 3rd, 2007 at 2:40 pmEvilcornbread: “Yes, it unquestionably, absolutely is. Which is why I HATE that liberals on this site are doing it too.”
Oh boo hoo hoo. Pure bull. Go cry in your cheap beer you un-american a-hole.
December 3rd, 2007 at 2:42 pmOh, go shove it up your keester. I’m sick of people like you who hide behind a veneer of “respectable†discussion while lying about issues which involve the needless death of hundreds of thousands of people and the subversion of our constitutional principles.
Wow, nice assumption there. Here’s a clue — I’m pretty decidedly liberal and agree that the war is a colossal disaster, both in necessity and management.
I just think that keeping the level of discourse above the sewers that are freep actually HELPS our cause.
WHAT CONTINUING THREAT!!!???
Well, to play devil’s advocate some more, that’s a pretty vague term. They could (and did iirc) claim that Saddam’s very existance was a threat to the US in that he was destabilizing the region and providing material support to terrorists (families of suicide bombers in Israel was a specific example I remember reading about).
Ironically, the war’s probably done more to destablize the region than Saddam ever would have. But when you authorize the President to go to war based on “threats to the US”, well, you’re just asking for trouble. Congress should authorize war, or not authorize war. Wishy-washy in-betweens are a recipe for trouble.
December 3rd, 2007 at 2:47 pmFriends, do I sound angry this morning? I hope I do, because I am. I’m very angry that at this late date there are still sociopathic cultists trying to convince us that day is night and night is day. We ALL know what happened. We ALL know that this horrible group of criminals who took office by judicial coup lied and distorted us into an illegal war which has almost ruined the country. We just can’t let these horrible people who still support this outrage have their way. When someone like “Dreamcrusher” arrogantly calls you or me a BSer, we need to shove it right back up their keester. And Cornbread, the time for “reasonable discourse” regarding this issue is over. You Bush cultists have NEVER been ready for honest discourse on this. You’ve distorted the facts, lied about the motivations and ridiculed anyone who protested what was going on. That train has left the station. This is a time for anger.
December 3rd, 2007 at 2:53 pmYou Bush cultists…
Seriously, you’re not even reading what I’m saying.
But I guess it’s easier to just assume that anyone that disagrees with you about anything, even if it’s how to frame an argument, is the devil incarnate and far-right-wing lunatic.
Sadly, it just makes you look kind of crackpot.
If we can’t even have a civil discussion AMONG LIBERALS (which both you and I are), then we’re just utterly screwed.
December 3rd, 2007 at 2:59 pmEvilCornBread: “Wow, nice assumption there. Here’s a clue — I’m pretty decidedly liberal..”
What you are is a phony. A simple use of this new-fangled thang called “Google” shows that you are always there to protest how nasty we liberals are when we criticize conservatives. You’ve at times taken Falwell’s side, McCain’s side, and you’re always crying about how mean liberals are. You’re just a phony.
December 3rd, 2007 at 3:01 pmIf the former USA (today known as the FACISTS STATES OF AMERICA) was a serious country, ROVE together with all members of this criminal administration, would be behind barrs, waiting for trial for crimes against humanity and war crimes. But only IF it was a serious country…
December 3rd, 2007 at 3:13 pmIt’s true that I typically post here when I’m trying to keep the site honest, or when liberalism is represented poorly (not unlike my first post here today, where I criticized TP for a misleading headline).
I find “me too” posts fairly pointless. I’d rather have a real discussion.
Regardless, the fact remains that I hold fairly liberal positions in most areas and I’m happy to discuss/elaborate whenever it’s appropriate.
December 3rd, 2007 at 3:19 pmIf we can’t even have a civil discussion AMONG LIBERALS (which both you and I are), then we’re just utterly screwed.
Comment by EvilCornbread — December 3, 2007 @ 2:59 pm
Um, I agree, to an extent. It is regrettable when our passions lead us to acrimony. But, everyone needs to “vent” once in awhile. Sometimes there’s “collateral damage” in our wars of words.
I do have a small issue with your statement. Many continue to assume that we are all “liberals” and I don’t think that’s so. The issues dividing our nation are not “liberal vs. conservative”. They go much deeper. I think that we, who frequent sites like TP, would be more accurately described as “the opposition”. Just like the pitiful victims of Third World dictatorships.
Our government is broken, at best, and has become an enemy of the people, at worst. There is legitimate doubt that it can be fixed within the existing framework. The implications are alarming, frightening, and deadly.
The rage, of desperation, is kept in check by the thinnest of margins and, alas, the anger gets misdirected at times. The sad fact is; we may need that rage to reclaim our country and the trolls keep our righteous anger burning hot. They serve as proxies for our real enemies. They keep us aware of the extent of the rot. They keep our skills sharp for the battles ahead. Though I agree we need to consider who we fight.
Plus, It can be very satisfying to call: a liar a liar, an enemy an enemy or, a fool a fool. It helps to keep the mobs out of the streets, at least, until our opportunity to vote for an honorable government.
December 3rd, 2007 at 3:37 pmJack Ripper – you’re on fire today, and I love you for it.
We need MORE like you – people who are willing to shout the truth, and keep shouting. And shouting. And shouting.
Rock on, Jack – I’m with you.
*APPLAUSE*
- A
December 3rd, 2007 at 3:41 pmPete – well said — but I think it’s time that those mobs NEED to take to the streets, because it is becoming more apparent every day that that’s the only way we’re going to get our country back from those who have stolen it.
December 3rd, 2007 at 3:43 pmComment by Leftside Annie — December 3, 2007 @ 3:43 pm
Thank you. However, I don’t think it’s time for mobs, yet. It is still necessary to identify who is part of the problem and who may offer a solution. The deceit is so pervasive that it’s difficult to tell what’s real.I hope that that process, of discovery, will enable us to fix the system rather than replace it. Our system is still very good. It’s those who have usurped it who need to be replaced.
December 3rd, 2007 at 3:52 pmThank you, Annie! I can’t help but noticing that after “Dreamcrusher” called ME a “BS-er” evidently for misrepresenting the War resolution, and I responded with citations from the resolution itself, he ran off and hasn’t returned. And, maybe I’ve been too hard on our friend, cornbread. I could definitely be wrong about him, but I do find it strange that a “liberal” always seems to be sticking up for conservatives in the name of “civility.” When I see him express a cogent liberal argument, maybe I’ll apologize.
December 3rd, 2007 at 4:18 pmWith a nickname of Turd Blossom how can anybody expect Carl Rove to tell the truth?
Turd blossoms are also known as meadow muffins.
Meadow Muffins:
(n.) feces deposited onto the ground by bovine animals. Also known as “cow flop”.
Any questions?
Troubled Texan
December 3rd, 2007 at 4:58 pmThe Democrats were in the majority, in the Senate, in 2002; and controlled the agenda. They did not have to consider the resolution, ever; and especially, not right before the election. Bush & Cheney (and Rove) were pushing for it, but they really didn’t meet much resistance.
When Daschle was defeated, I thought the Democrats would chose leadership less inclined to cater to georgejr’s every wish – but no such luck. This Democratic congress is as bad as the Republican Congress was, when it comes to rubber-stamping the Bush administration’s every demand. There was no reason the Kyl-Lieberman bill had to be voted on,either…..
December 3rd, 2007 at 5:25 pm85 – Pete – well, I’ve become a cynic, I guess.
I was full of hope after the 2006 election – full of hope that the Democrats were actually going to put up a fight to stop the wholesale destruction of America by the criminals, bullies, thieves and thugs of the Republican Party.
And every day, they just roll over. Day after day after day, they roll over.
And the gang rape continues unabated and unopposed. I can’t tell who are the good guys any more, and which are the collaborators and appeasers in the Democratic Party. Maybe it is time for the mobs with torches to storm Washington, DC. Maybe that’s the only way to take our country back from those who have stolen it.
.
.
86 – Col. Jack – I read all your posts with great interest. Keep ‘em coming. ;o)
I’m your fan,
- A
December 3rd, 2007 at 6:22 pmProbably the most succinct and accurate conclusion that I ever heard of Daschle stating.
It’s about time that this fellow started fighting back for the ambushing that Rove and company perpetrated on the good citezens of South Dakota – - – Thune.
December 4th, 2007 at 12:17 am