Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech?
Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech?
In October, right-wing radio host Michael Savage went on an anti-Muslim tirade on his show:
I’m not gonna put my wife in a hijab. And I’m not gonna put my daughter in a burqa. And I’m not gettin on my all-fours and braying to Mecca. And you could drop dead if you don’t like it. You can shove it up your pipe. I don’t wanna hear anymore about Islam. I don’t wanna hear one more word about Islam. Take your religion and shove it up your behind. I’m sick of you.
Since that time, a “handful” of companies have pulled their advertising from Savage’s show. But he’s still on air. According to a piece in the Christian Science Monitor today, “That leaves many Muslims-Americans — and non-Muslims like Mr. Gronseth — suspicious that Americans have a double standard when it comes to Islam.”
UPDATE: Yesterday, Savage sued the Islamic civil rights organization CAIR for “copyright infringement over the organization’s use of a 4-minute segment of his show in which he called the Quran a ‘book of hate.’“
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Savage is jewish.
December 4th, 2007 at 9:56 amI don’t want to hear one more word about any religions. But that isn’t going to happen anytime soon.
December 4th, 2007 at 9:58 amCOPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT ??????????
It’s not infringement, it is proof that is in the public domain. This is beyond absurd.
December 4th, 2007 at 10:02 amSo making fun of some basketball players hair will get you kicked off the air (don’t care for Imus btw), but telling an entire religion to shove their religion up their butts wont?
December 4th, 2007 at 10:03 amIs this idiot seriously trying to make us scared that the US will become an islamic fundamentalist nation? If so, he needs to put the microphone down, back away, and take his medication.
December 4th, 2007 at 10:04 amKathryn Jean Lopez, online editor at national review.
So the question isn’t, does the US tolerate anti-Muslim speech, it is, does it tolerate racism?
December 4th, 2007 at 10:04 amI’m not gonna put my wife in a habit. And I’m not gonna put my daughter in a surplice. And I’m not gettin on my all-knees and braying to the pulpit. And you could drop dead if you don’t like it. You can shove it up your pipe. I don’t wanna hear anymore about Christianity. I don’t wanna hear one more word about Christianity. Take your religion and shove it up your behind. I’m sick of you.
December 4th, 2007 at 10:05 amAnti-Muslim hate speech is not only accepted by the right-wing, it is celebrated. Most of the modern day Republican platform is based on racism and bigotry; hatred of Mexicans, hatred of Muslims, hatred of African Americans, hatred of French and other Europeans, hatred of homosexuals, hatred of peace groups, etc.
December 4th, 2007 at 10:06 amWell, I for one think that the Muslim extremist — sorry, Islamofascist — that tried to force Mr. Savage Wiener to “get down on all fours and bray toward Mecca” was out of line.
What??? You mean No one tried to force Mr. Savage Wiener to do any such thing? No one even suggested putting his wife in a hajib?
Well, he couldn’t have just made it up out of the twisted fears and cobwebbed paranoia o his own mind, could he?
December 4th, 2007 at 10:09 amAnti-Muslim hate speech is not only accepted by the right-wing, it is celebrated. Most of the modern day Republican platform is based on racism and bigotry; hatred of Mexicans, hatred of Muslims, hatred of African Americans, hatred of French and other Europeans, hatred of homosexuals, hatred of peace groups, etc.
Comment by BrianFL — December 4, 2007 @ 10:06 am
At least they’re consistent.
December 4th, 2007 at 10:10 amKathryn Jean Lopez, online editor at national review.
As one of our sources put it: “The Arab tendency to lie and exaggerate about enemies is alive and well among pro-American Lebanese Christians as much as it is with the likes of Hamas.â€
Comment by Bruce Gorton — December 4, 2007 @ 10:04 am
Bruce, couldn’t one just as accurately write:
“The Bush administration tendency to lie and exaggerate about enemies is alive and well among State Department officials as much as it is with the likes of the Executive Branch and Dick Cheney�
December 4th, 2007 at 10:12 amI just feel sorry for his wife and daughter if this idiot is deciding what they should wear.
December 4th, 2007 at 10:13 amSuddenly, it looks good to bash Islam nowadays.
December 4th, 2007 at 10:14 amBy the way, which side (politically) is seeking to have more religion in our everyday lives? Which side wants your kids praying in school instead of learning science? Which side wants religion to be the basis for law in our nation?
These right-wingers can’t have it both ways. They write about how liberals are “Godless” or how we’re trying to secularize Christmas and other holidays, then they rant about how we want to force Islam on them. Well, which is it? We can’t be both trying to remove religion from society and also trying to force Islam on everyone.
December 4th, 2007 at 10:15 amralph the wonder llama
Considering this was Lopez defending the national review with regards to false reporting, one could equally well say:
December 4th, 2007 at 10:17 amOne of the freedoms guaranteed by our constitution (which Savage claims he reveres) is the freedom of speech. This freedom has been championed by Americans for well over 200 years now — even though the “speech” is sometimes extremely offensive to reasonable people.
I will defend Savage’s right to say whatever he wants, even though I personally find his remarks abominable. However, the constitution does NOT guarantee him the right to broadcast his filth — unless he has his own broadcast apparatus. Otherwise, he’s subject to the wishes of whoever owns the station running his program. Likewise, sponsors are not required to finance his hateful diatribes, and they have every right to pull their funding out. And lastly, nobody is required to listen.
That said — it’s obvious that enough people support Savage’s bigoted vitriol to keep him on the air. His employer obviously supports him, there are still enough sponsors who support him (even though several no longer do), and there are still enough listeners to give him adequate ratings.
And this is sad. If Savage had made similar remarks about Christianity or Judaism, he’d be toast.
December 4th, 2007 at 10:19 amWell, which is it? We can’t be both trying to remove religion from society and also trying to force Islam on everyone.
Comment by BrianFL — December 4, 2007 @ 10:15 am
You’d be amazed how many conflicting paradoxes the radical right mind can accept when votes and profit are on the line.
December 4th, 2007 at 10:19 amJust another ratings whore prattling on with his hate speech.
December 4th, 2007 at 10:19 amWith free speech comes the responsibility to accept the consequences of that speech.
I love the idea that ANYONE is going to come here and take over. There are tens of millions of gun owners here and even more guns in total and someone is going to come in and just take over? I thought only the French were cowardly enough to let someone walk in and take over by force? If the “Surge” is working, how then is there any evidence that Al Qaeda can take over ANYTHING?!? They can’t even take over Iraq!
December 4th, 2007 at 10:21 amJust another ratings whore prattling on with his hate speech.
With free speech comes the responsibility to accept the consequences of that speech.
Comment by RUCerious — December 4, 2007 @ 10:19 am
Unfortunately, there have been no consequences. That’s the problem.
Anyone have a list of the advertisers for Savage’s show? It’d be nice to know who we should start boycotting.
December 4th, 2007 at 10:22 amHow can Savage call the Quran a “book of hate” when it’s so obvious he’s never read it?
Oh right. Bigots operate more effectively WITHOUT education of any kind.
December 4th, 2007 at 10:22 ammissmolly
Or as Voltaire put it,
“I disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.”
That said, just because someone has the right to say something, doesn’t mean we don’t have the right to think less of them for saying it or supporting it.
December 4th, 2007 at 10:23 amSavage is a fearmonger.
December 4th, 2007 at 10:32 amI decided a long time ago that Savage is nothing more than just a publicity seeking no talent a$$ clown.
December 4th, 2007 at 10:35 amInsane. Completely, totally and certifiably INSANE.
December 4th, 2007 at 10:35 amSavage is a bedwetting, sociopath, closet cased mofo.
He should be broadcasting from a ham-radio in the northern woods of Idaho not being paid by respectable companies.
-GSD
December 4th, 2007 at 10:35 amAs much as this guy is a scum bag and as much as he makes inflammatory remarks, it is his right to do so. We need to be consistent here. Dissent is the lifeblood of democracy. It’s what drives us to vote, to take action. I know the first instinct when hearing the tripe Savage spews is “take him off the air”, but where does that leave free speech? Who is to make those decisions on what we can and can’t say? What is to happen to unpopular speech? The very forum to which we are posting is considered by some to be offensive. Should they be able to silence us should they be in the majority? To think that when making these distinctions people would be just and not overreach is naive. Look how ambiguity in our Constitution has been used by the right to ruin our liberty.
December 4th, 2007 at 10:37 amtrolls, your thoughts?
December 4th, 2007 at 10:37 amJTee
Just because he has the right to free speech doesn’t mean he has the right to get paid for talking tripe.
Sure, he can spout off whatever he likes, so can you, so can I. But that doesn’t mean that you have to listen to his show.
December 4th, 2007 at 10:41 amJTee,
Who is advocating the government censor Savage? This is not a free speech issue. We have a right to use our own free speech to tell his advertisers we will not use their products if they advertise on his show. That’s very different from wanting the government to step in and silence him.
December 4th, 2007 at 10:42 amDo Republicans ever ask people like Savage Wiener to apologize for their hate-filled rhetoric? Or Coulter. Or Hannity. Or O’Reilly.
December 4th, 2007 at 10:42 amI’m not gonna put my wife in a hijab. And I’m not gonna put my daughter in a burqa
Typical reich-winger paranoia….and his pathetic low-life listeners eagerly agree and share the same “fears”.
December 4th, 2007 at 10:42 amThere is little difference amongst these right-wing rant-jockeys. Some — like Limpballs and Insanity — are coy about their biases and prejudice. Others — like Beck and Savage — are just outright fools.
It is sad to think that Savage still has any advertisers and any air time after reading the kind of colon-blow he shares on his “show”.
Lucky for him he didn’t call Muslims a bunch of nappy-headed ho’s. That would have clearly been a career-limiting act.
December 4th, 2007 at 10:45 amThere is a double standard.
That’s because Muslims are irrational freaks who want to kill innocent people who name their Teddy Bears “Mohammed”.
Savage is a tool piece of garbage. But that does not mean we should be sending bodies and cas to Muslim countries.
Muslim countries should be encased and mined.
December 4th, 2007 at 10:50 amAnti-Muslim hate speech is not only accepted by the right-wing, it is celebrated. Most of the modern day Republican platform is based on racism and bigotry; hatred of Mexicans, hatred of Muslims, hatred of African Americans, hatred of French and other Europeans, hatred of homosexuals, hatred of peace groups, etc.
Comment by BrianFL — December 4, 2007 @ 10:06 am
In other words, they are all about hate.
December 4th, 2007 at 10:51 amThe question TP poses is “Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech?”
While the comments can be (1) does savage have the right to say what he said or (2) he can say it, we just don’t have to listen, I think what the question boils down to is does America tolerate being Anti-Muslim while being intolerant of other ethnic or religous groups.
Post #4 addresses the issue. Why does someone like Al Sharpton get so pissed off about Imus’s comments while simultaneously ignoring the slander of an entire religion? So is someone like Al Sharpton actually tolerant of this type of hate speech?
December 4th, 2007 at 10:51 amOK, not all Muslims are irrational freaks who want to kill innocent people who name their Teddy Bears “Mohammad’
December 4th, 2007 at 10:52 amDissent is the lifeblood of democracy. It’s what drives us to vote, to take action. I know the first instinct when hearing the tripe Savage spews is “take him off the airâ€, but where does that leave free speech? Who is to make those decisions on what we can and can’t say? What is to happen to unpopular speech?
Comment by JTee — December 4, 2007 @ 10:37 am
We the people make these decisions. Contemporary community standards should decide when a commentator has crossed the line from protected but unpopular dissent to hate speech. They should be censored not by government fiat but by public outcry. The community should be excercising their free speech rights and rallying against racists like Savage until he’s off the air.
December 4th, 2007 at 10:52 amLucky for him he didn’t call Muslims a bunch of nappy-headed ho’s. That would have clearly been a career-limiting act.
In this conservative media it’s perfectly fine and even encouraged to hate Muslim’s like this. The difference between him and Imus is that Muslims have clearly replaced blacks as the white national Boogeyman.
If you didn’t understand English or German, would you hear any difference at all between this and what was on the radio in the thirties in Germany? The cadence, style and anger of it is pretty much the same as those old clips they play on the History Channel.
December 4th, 2007 at 10:54 amMuslim countries should be encased and mined.
Comment by Guido OBGYN Lover
Somebody’s old girlfriend left him for a Muslim…
December 4th, 2007 at 10:54 amIf you didn’t understand English or German, would you hear any difference at all between this and what was on the radio in the thirties in Germany? The cadence, style and anger of it is pretty much the same as those old clips they play on the History Channel.
Comment by lefty — December 4, 2007 @ 10:54 am
Exactly. The bigots on the right salivate whenever they get a teddy bear Mohammed story dropped in their laps because it gives them yet another excuse to stereotype 1.3 billion people as bloodthirsty fanatics.
December 4th, 2007 at 10:58 amSavage-Weiner perfectly exemplifies the intolerance of the reich-wing.
December 4th, 2007 at 11:11 amThe moment that we start saying that Savage should be taken off the air for something he said, we start going down the slippery slope. I personally think he should be taken off the air because he’s not entertaining or particularly relevant. I don’t like him, so I don’t listen to him… and more and more people should follow suit.
Theoretically, his ratings should be the reason why he’s taken off the air, but as we’ve seen… ratings aren’t always the end-all be-all for media giants when it comes to protecting the right for the right to spew hatred.
December 4th, 2007 at 11:12 amThat’s because Muslims are irrational freaks who want to kill innocent people who name their Teddy Bears “Mohammedâ€.
Savage is a tool piece of garbage. But that does not mean we should be sending bodies and cas to Muslim countries.
Muslim countries should be encased and mined.
Comment by Guido OBGYN Lover — December 4, 2007 @ 10:50 am
That’s because reich-wingers are irrational freaks who want to kill innocent people who are brown, minorities, or have different ideologies.
Reich-wingers are tools and garbage.
Reich-wingers should be encased and forgotten.
December 4th, 2007 at 11:14 amIn other words, they are all about hate.
Comment by Proud American Liberal — December 4, 2007 @ 10:51 am
The GOOPers need to be careful here. The more folks they hate, the less they’ll actually have in the party. Pretty soon, the GOOP will be so small they’ll be able to hold their conventions in an airport bathroom stall and still have space left over.
December 4th, 2007 at 11:27 amPretty soon, the GOOP will be so small they’ll be able to hold their conventions in an airport bathroom stall and still have space left over.
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity
I think that’s all they want.
December 4th, 2007 at 11:30 am“I don’t want to hear one more word about any religions. But that isn’t going to happen anytime soon.”
Comment by Menehune — December 4, 2007 @ 9:58 am
Couldn’t agree more!
December 4th, 2007 at 11:56 ami’ve had enough of the crap!
look what the tide washed in.
December 4th, 2007 at 12:00 pmit’s a black-eyed bottom feeder.
This is outrageous. All religious sponsors should pull there ads from him. We are a country based on freedom of religion. One no greater than the other, all equal under the law. It would be a great gesture for Christians and Jews to show their support. Especially Jews since they should understand religious persecution.
December 4th, 2007 at 12:54 pmAMERICA HAS A DOUBLE STANDER WHEN IT COMES TO ANYTHING! JUST COMPARE THE ‘FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY’ IN THE US WITH THE ‘FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY IN IRAQ’! OR ASK ANY NICARAGUAN ABOUT THEIR FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY US STYLE!
December 4th, 2007 at 12:57 pmThis is very different from the Rutgers/Imus thing. While I loathe Savage, and he is most certainly an idiot, he went after what he feels is a horrible outlook and philosophy. Imus called some college girls, “nappy-headed hoes”.
These are quite different things. That being said, I fully support all the advertisers yanking their sponsorship of Savage. He’s a hate monger of the highest order.
December 4th, 2007 at 1:19 pmHere is your chance to “Rate” the radio show of Dr. Savage
http://streamingradioguide.com/radio-show.php?show=328
Check out the results already posted, the add your own words of wisdom
(see Listner reviews)
http://streamingradioguide.com/radio-show.php?show=328
December 4th, 2007 at 1:20 pmI’m not gonna put my wife in a hijab. And I’m not gonna put my daughter in a burqa.
And just who is asking this man to put his wife in a hijab and his daughter in a burqa? What in the world is this man talking about?
Does he make sense to anyone here? Other than the obvious goal to bash a religion he doesn’t like, that is.
More and more, Savage sounds like he belongs in a mental institution and not in a radio station. What a paranoid twit.
December 4th, 2007 at 1:24 pmWhy is the Savage Weiner such a mean-spirited, self-loathing man? I don’t know, but here’s the text of an undated postcard he sent to his friend, Allen Ginsberg:
“Dear Allen Ginsberg,
Watched a tourist from New Zealand taking pictures of Fijian people in the marketplace thought of inserting my cameras lens in your A hole to photograph the walls of your rectum.
I really do apologize But the thought did occur.
Michael Weinerâ€
December 4th, 2007 at 1:31 pmIt’s not just tolerated, it’s encouraged, and that’s pathetic.
December 4th, 2007 at 2:10 pmSavage is an idiot. The Quran is not a book about hate, its a book about intolerance and doom.
December 4th, 2007 at 2:20 pmits a book about intolerance and doom.
Comment by Miles Tougeaux
Really? You’re a theologian, and you’ve read it fron to back?
Cool. Please cite quotes to back-up this incredulous claim of yours.
December 4th, 2007 at 2:52 pmNo, not a theologian but I have read it. Highly recommend it.
Heres an excellent summary of the intolerance citings for those not wishing to wander through the mindset of the Dark Ages themselves:
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/int/long.html
December 4th, 2007 at 4:25 pmWhy is anyone surprised? He says lots of hateful and offensive things. I read his comments with a yawn. I personally have no love for any organized religion but wouldn’t put it the way he did. Islam in this country does everything it can to lay low. I wish the elitist born-agains would do the same. I wish they would all stay out of our government and our personal lives.
December 4th, 2007 at 4:31 pm57 - you mean like the Old Testament?
December 4th, 2007 at 5:37 pmMssr. Tougeaux,
Have you sent your menstruating wife outside the walls of the gated community, as the Bible commands?
Stone any heretics lately??
Face it - the Bible and the Koran were written by the same kinds of people in the same kind of place at the same kind of time for the same kinds of reasons and are full of the same kind of hateful, superstitious gobbledy-gook. No one in their right mind should rely on either for anything but entertainment.
December 4th, 2007 at 5:41 pmAgreed. Although the Quran was written several hundred years after the NT and nearly 1000 after much of the OT (and all suffering through subjective editing) they are both bizzarre indeed. But the narrative in the Quran runs a tad angrier.
December 4th, 2007 at 6:02 pmHelllloooo. Savage sues CAIR and the best Megyn Kelly can come up with is CAIR sues just about anyone?? Wow. That was a fine ‘so are you but what am I’ moment. Savage’s suit has nothing to do with his so called character. He’s suing for copyright infringement. Big difference. These people must spend a fortune on pearl necklaces.
December 4th, 2007 at 8:58 pmLove Michael Savage or not this issue is about free speech. It will affect us all. People just can’t go around copying what we say and using it out of context. Hope Savage wins and wins big! Further more I think I shall contribute to his defense fund.
I smell a rat here. I think its because of greedy Arabs that have nothing to do with religion. I don’t believe CAIR is concerned with religion but with the rich United Arab Emirates and its money values.
December 4th, 2007 at 9:17 pmI’m not gonna put my wife in a hijab. And I’m not gonna put my daughter in a burqa. And I’m not gettin on my all-fours and braying to Mecca. And you could drop dead if you don’t like it. You can shove it up your pipe.
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Conversely, if Savage doesn’t like the fact that I’m not gonna accept the idea that a man is better equipped than I am to decide what is best for me simply by virtue of his male genitalia even though some conservative Christians think I should…he can shove that up his pipe.
December 5th, 2007 at 1:48 ammissmolly
Or as Voltaire put it,
“I disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.â€
That said, just because someone has the right to say something, doesn’t mean we don’t have the right to think less of them for saying it or supporting it. — Bruce Gorton
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If I may add another wise epigram to yours…”the right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously” (Adlai Stevenson)
December 5th, 2007 at 2:13 amLet a commentator say on air that Judism is a hate religion and that the Jews can shove it up their ass and see how quickly Abe Foxman and his jackboots over at the anti-defamation league pounce into action.
December 5th, 2007 at 7:24 amI know this is an old post…but its new to me. Let me begin propper:
I am what you all would consider a “right-wing nut job”. I love my God, my guns and my country! I believe all men are created equal and no one has the right to take away my freedom to life, freedom to God, and freedom of Speech. Dr. Savage feels the same way as I do. Savage’s comments about not putting his wife in a hijab and what not were at the end of a very long segment about what people like the “Hitler” of our times, Ahmendeijad, want to do with the US. His rants are about the extremes in the muslim religion. I know because I listen to and support his radio program. Dr. Savage is one of the few, even in the “Right” wing media who has the nerve to say much anything against Islam or any “Left” wing agendas. O’Reilly and Rush are nothing more than puppets to the Bush Administration. Don’t confuse them with conservatives like myself and Savage. In closing you don’t have to agree with what Savage says, just don’t listen and respect his right to say it. I don’t agree with about 99.9% of what is posted above, but I’d fight tooth and nail for any one of you to say it and post it. That is what TRUE freedom of speech is. If any of you have the gall to have a true debate on the issue please feel free to send me an email… jason_haildamage@yahoo.com. Subject: Savage Speech.
January 16th, 2008 at 2:01 pm