White House knew of NIE’s judgments for months.
White House knew of NIE’s judgments for months.
Harper’s Scott Horton interviewed an intelligence community official who casts doubt on the White House’s claim that they only recent learned of the NIE’s judgments:
But one highly reliable intelligence community source I consulted immediately after Hadley spoke answered my question this way: “This is absolutely absurd. The NIE has been in substantially the form in which it was finally submitted for more than six months. The White House, and particularly Vice President Cheney, used every trick in the book to stop it from being finalized and issued. There was no last minute breakthrough that caused the issuance of the assessment.” So what, I asked, if not an intelligence breakthrough, what caused the last-minute change and the sudden issuance of the summary of the NIE? My source had no idea.
Horton’s source adds that though it appears Vice President Cheney “and his team” had “to fold their cards” on “plans for an air war in Iran,” Cheney’s “a tenacious son-of-a-bitch. He may very well be back at it tomorrow.”
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Lies from the Bushies…?
Why should today be different?
December 4th, 2007 at 3:35 pmMight as well add another notch in the democrats’ empty gunbelt. They won’t do squat about this.
December 4th, 2007 at 3:35 pmCan we impeach them now?
December 4th, 2007 at 3:37 pmYes! Impeach them now!
December 4th, 2007 at 3:38 pmIn any other “democracyâ€, even ours, prior to GOP government takeover, the delay of the NIE, and the intimidation of our gutless intelligent agencies by Cheney/Addington would have lead to impeachment hearings. Pelosi, Reid, Rockefeller, et al, just bend over and take it with 150 grit petroleum jelly.
December 4th, 2007 at 3:41 pmNot surprising at all. Bush and company have lied to and manipulated the American people for the last 6 yrs. When are the Dems going to finally realize that it’s time to impeach?
December 4th, 2007 at 3:41 pmI’ve listened to the corporate media report this story for 24hrs. now. NONE OF THEM has even mentioned that Bush knew the NIE’s judgements. NONE of them has mentioned that Bush has been lying to the country for months. The corporate media has gone so far as to spin this story as a POSITIVE for the administration!!
We’re living in BIZARRO WORLD!
But since the corporate media never reported on the Downing St. Memos, smoking gun proof of the lies that launched us to war in Iraq, I guess I shouldn’t have expected anything different.
This is yet another impeachable offense. And the media who are protecting the administration should be brought up on charges and thrown in jail.
December 4th, 2007 at 3:41 pmso basically we’re either finding out that Bush knew all and should be impeached, or that Cheney ran the country while Bush played with his lincoln logs in the oval office and got trotted out for photo ops…
It’s either Richard Nixon or Ronald Reagan…. my god, how did we come to this again?
December 4th, 2007 at 3:42 pmWell, Raynman (@9),
We let Karl Rove count the votes from electronic machines and he said Bush was elected twice.
Aaaaaargh! How much more of this must we endure?!
December 4th, 2007 at 3:44 pmBacks up my previous assertion. The NIE was announced after it was seen that the holiday buying behavior got off to a sluggish start. Gas can only get so high before people won’t buy other things. Their is a balancing act being played out with fear, gas prices, and consumer spending. It was tipping a bit, so the NIE was announced to provide some balance.
December 4th, 2007 at 3:45 pmEither he’s lying in order to dupe us into attacking Iran or he is frighteningly walking around the White House UNAWARE of what is in the NIE.
Both are clear grounds for impeachment.
December 4th, 2007 at 3:47 pmRight now someone could tell me that the sky is green and grass is blue. I would believe this to be true before believing anything this administration has to say.
December 4th, 2007 at 3:47 pmNancy Pelosi enabled this lying by taking impeachment off the table.
Bush knew he could lie about Iran’s nuclear program as a reason to start a new war. Pelosi would never hold him accountable.
Thank God this NIE survived and became public. WW3 may have been averted.
December 4th, 2007 at 3:49 pmCaptainPuketastic,
It was my understanding that the intelligence community was trying to tell Bush there was not enough solid evidence of WMD’s in Iraq, and they were basically ignored, or silenced. Just like Bush is attempting to do with this new information.
December 4th, 2007 at 3:49 pmNancy Pelosi enabled this lying by taking impeachment off the table.
Damn straight!
December 4th, 2007 at 3:50 pmThis is an act of treason, folks – withholding intelligence that runs contrary to the spin Bush and Cheney hoped to create via lies. If Congress doesn’t move to impeach, then it’s time for the people to begin impeachment proceedings against Congress.
Lying repeatedly to the people when intelligence was in for months is a crime against the people.
December 4th, 2007 at 3:50 pmSpinning the truth to knit a lie…not original however what’s left other than entering a guilty plea and surrender to the jailer?
December 4th, 2007 at 3:50 pmSo, instead of worrying how to impeach Bush and not get Cheney, we can get two birds with one stone. They both get impeached together. Dual impeachment! Dual impeachment!
December 4th, 2007 at 3:51 pmIMPEACH!
December 4th, 2007 at 3:52 pm#13…exactly. They are continually throwing things in to try to tip the scales whichever way they want without turning the whole thing over. I fear they’ve lost control over the system now–perhaps they kept the oil price too high for too long trying to wring the last billion out of the American people. It now is wobbling uncontrolably and appears headed for meltdown.
December 4th, 2007 at 3:52 pm2millioonlightyears: They have so much “dirt” on Pelosi that she’s effectively been sidelined. Her employment of illegal aliens at her winery in california is only the tip of the iceberg for her. I’m sure they’ve got gobs of dirty laundry on everyone via their illegal spy program on american citizens. Why else wouldn’t they spy immediately and then, within the law, get a defacto warrant within the 72 hour time frame allowed by FISA?? Spying on political foes is the reason to silence them via blackmail.
Ask your gut: Is there now anything, and I mean anything, this group of criminals would not lie about to get their way? Answer: Abso-lutely nothing!! Now let’s look into what really went down on 911.
December 4th, 2007 at 3:54 pmDem rivals target Clinton on Iran
None of us is advocating a rush to war,” said Clinton, the only Democratic candidate to vote for the resolution.
Clinton came under criticism from her rivals, who highlighted her September vote in Tuesday’s debate, which came the day after release of a new intelligence report that says Iran stopped development of a nuclear weapon four years ago.
Edwards said Clinton gave President Bush just what he wanted when she voted to designate Iran’s Revolutionary Guard a terrorist organization. Clinton said her vote was meant to encourage diplomacy.
“Declaring a military group sponsored by the state of Iran a terrorist organization, that’s supposed to be diplomacy?” Edwards interjected. “This has to be considered in the context that Senator Clinton has said she agrees with George Bush terminology that we’re in a global war on terror, then she voted to declare a military group in Iran a terrorist organization. What possible conclusion can you reach other than we are at war?”
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071204/ap_po/democrats_debate;_ylt=AqAPX1_3Uhtv52ozgi6FvEus0NUE
December 4th, 2007 at 3:54 pmI think that maybe it’s time for the Iranians to sink one of our ships in the Gulf of Tonkin, errr… sorry, I meant Persian Gulf.
December 4th, 2007 at 3:54 pmOIL , Bush was promised oil by Maliki to stop the war stance on Iran
December 4th, 2007 at 3:55 pmBush/Cheney lied us into an illegal war with Iraq; now he’s caught trying to cook the books and lie ourselves into Iran. I think it’s time that this liar-in-chief is removed from office. He has absolutely no credibility left with the people any longer so he is basically rendered an “irrelevant liability” right now.
Just saw the headline of a grocery store newspaper that he had a seizure during one of his notorious drinking binges. I’d have to agree with the member of the press who basically told him he looked like hammered $hit today. Guess he’s back on the booze wagon.
December 4th, 2007 at 3:56 pmCaptainFOOLtastick: Probably about 5′1″, balding, prematurely gray, age conscious, and of questionable sexuality — like most republicans. Why or why should we believe this particular president’s actions are prudent, when all of his past actions have gotten this country into a $10 trillion quaqmire in his war of choice? When his actions have caused the deaths of almost 4,000 troops, unnecessarily. When his actions have caused the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians. Sorry, but anything this president says should be taken with a huge grain of salt.
December 4th, 2007 at 3:57 pmI would also agree that Hillary’s becoming toxic vis-a-vis this new intel on Iran and the fact that she is the only Dem candidate who voted in favor of giving a known liar the power to do so. Her numbers are tanking and by the time this fiasco concerning this report is circulated and dissected, Hillary will find herself near the bottom of the heap.
Hillary is PRO WAR no matter how much she professes to the contrary. I look at the way an individual votes – and not the spin and bullshit they spew. Hillary’s 2 for 2 now with her war votes. This means serious trouble to this country. We cannot permit another war monger to occupy the oval office again any time soon.
December 4th, 2007 at 3:59 pmComment by cold_hard_left
Maybe you could have Colin Powell present that to the U.N. in a Powerpoint presentation.
IMPEACH!
December 4th, 2007 at 4:00 pmComment by Veritas
Hillary is a trap!
http://leftopia.blogspot.com/2007/11/case-against-hilary.html
December 4th, 2007 at 4:01 pmPresident Bush’s amen corner in the conservative commentariat is apoplectic over the new National Intelligence Estimate (NIE) on Iran. After all, the report’s conclusion that Tehran suspended its nuclear weapons program inn 2003 knocked the legs out from their “World War III” rhetoric. And as you’d expect, the same people who helped bring you the war in Iraq are now quick to claim CIA incompetence and conspiracies are behind the new assessment.
For the details, see:
December 4th, 2007 at 4:01 pm“Right Claims Iran NIE a CIA Plot Against Bush.”
It’s either Richard Nixon or Ronald Reagan…. my god, how did we come to this again?
Comment by raynman — December 4, 2007 @ 3:42 pm
The common denominator is…
December 4th, 2007 at 4:02 pmCNN radio is reporting that Bush said this morning…
Nothing’s Changed. And they (Iran) could start it (nuclear program) again.
IMPEACH THIS PSYCHOPATH!
December 4th, 2007 at 4:02 pmBush and Cheney obviously knew about this NIE report and it probably was going to get leaked so as usual they hold a press conference and try to put their own spin on it. But Bush lied again today. What else is new.
December 4th, 2007 at 4:04 pmI believe that Hillary’s “popularity” was because she was novel as a woman but that bloom is now off the rose. I also believe that it was never the democrats OR the people at large who catapulted Hillary into the frontrunner status but, in fact, the wholly-owned media whores of the fascist reichwing party who decided that it shall be “the media” who elects the next president. The people will call bull$hit on the sycophants who run our news media because it’s becoming clear that they’re all fascists. One of the hallmarks of fascism is precisely that: media outlets are wholly owned subsidiaries of the political group in power – amen to that, as we all know it’s true.
I think there’s nothing more that the reichwing would love than to have Hillary as an “easy target”. They have so much indicting dirt on her that swiftboating will look more like waterboarding when it comes to the Clinton’s own house of horrors. This is one reason they’d love to have her as an opponent.
Another, perhaps more altruistic group fo neofascists might recognize that Hillary is an elitist and a washington insider – in other words, she’s part of the problem and NOT part of the solution and is a war monger to boot so if they happen to get Hillary then it will simply be a case of Bush Light on their doorstep.
December 4th, 2007 at 4:05 pmDear cold_hard_left.
Please find gainful employment. It is our hope that you pull yourself out of the ditch you are in and work for a living. Sitting in front of an old computer in you underwear scares the shit out of us and frightens furry critters as well.
Note to prospective employers of cold_hard_left: Please make sure the only computer he has access to is a Commodore 64. Nothing newer as he has a propensity to spew bullshit far and wide if given the chance.
Thank you for your assistance in this matter.
December 4th, 2007 at 4:05 pmComment by cold_hard_left — December 4, 2007 @ 3:58 pm
With this being known by the WH for at least 6 months, why the drum beating instead of a more measured pressure towards Iran? Why the references to WWIII and not a success story on diplomacy?
December 4th, 2007 at 4:06 pmvery worrisome watching our unelected sociopath leader, a sociopath that has our country set up in many ways for a possible coup, backed into a corner.
December 4th, 2007 at 4:08 pmI heard somewhere recently, that if Bush ordered a nuclear attack, the military has the right to refuse. Anyone here know facts about this?
After this report, the chance of military action by the US, already considered fairly small, becomes even smaller. It will also make it harder for Washington to secure the tougher sanctions it has already called for.
The new assessment will strengthen Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s hand, at least in the short term. He will no doubt claim he faced down the “Great Satan” and won.
But in reality, this is just one more roll of the dice, another twist in the confrontation between Washington and Tehran that has been going on since the Islamic revolution in 1979 and shows no sign at all of ending.
THE DEMS SHOULD TALK TO IRAN RIGHT NOW AND GET ON THE BANDWAGON ,,,,,,,,,,,,
December 4th, 2007 at 4:08 pmAngryOne: I’m loving the fact that the reichwing media whores have had their legs knocked out from under them. They’re looking pretty incredulous right now as they try to spin the unspinnable. Perhaps they see the handwriting on the wall and the end of Bush’s reign close at hand? It’s over for him I suspect with this last batch of lies which had to do with war and countless more deaths…the perpetuation of crimes against innocents, the destruction of another sovereign nation, but beaucoup dinero into the coffers of the war profiteers….he loves that smell of money, doesn’t he?
I hope he loves the scent of prison as much as he loves the scent of money though because that’s where he rightfully belongs. A president caught lying to the people (and this one is sticking) is a president about to be deposed.
December 4th, 2007 at 4:08 pmHad enough: I can’t provide a link but there was something on the internet about the level of mutiny right now by ranking members of the military who had decided to refuse the order of a sociopath.
December 4th, 2007 at 4:10 pmIt’s fun watching the trolls trying to figure out which way they’re supposed to spin this. On he one hand, you have Capn Mantastic attacking the creidbility of the NIE, based on the faulty NIE of five years ago — faults directly attributable to administration meddling. On the other hand, you have Small Soft Right pointing out such mitigating evidence as “the NIC assess with only moderate confidence that the halt to those activities represents a halt to Iran’s entire nuclear weapons program” as a pathetic attempt to use the NIE to undermine its own credibility.
I notice that NONE of them is bothering to defend the Chimperor and his blatant cluelessness and/or medacity.
How about it, guys? Anyone up for defending Chimpy?
December 4th, 2007 at 4:10 pmThey have so much “dirt†on Pelosi that she’s effectively been sidelined.
Comment by Veritas — December 4, 2007 @ 3:54 pm
While I suspect the same thing I offer you this scenario. Pelosi steps forward with Impeachment. She forces the hand of the administration. They release the dirt on her. She hires illegals, had a facelift, blah blah blah. The public doesn’t care. Barely yawns. The public is riveted on the Impeachment charge. Pelosi is safe from a hit on her life. At this point everyone would know who is responsible. The impeachment proceeds. Crimes are exposed. The president is impeached. Pelosi is a national hero.
So what’s she afraid of?
December 4th, 2007 at 4:10 pmBush has been able to count on american incredulity to slime his way out of his other lies but this one will be impossible for him because it involves known facts, dates, and times. He may try to throw his own people under the bus on this (like his intel chief McConnell) but I believe that these individuals will realize that once Bush leaves the white house he will be a national persona non grate – a national pariah. I don’t think there will be many martyrs for Bush on this one.
December 4th, 2007 at 4:12 pm2million: I’m thinking that the dirt they have on her must be much, much more toxic than hiring illegals; otherwise, I can’t imagine why she wouldn’t be outraged right now and planning impeachment proceedings. After all: it’s her obligation under her oath of office to do so when impeachable offenses have been committed and this certainly qualifies as one. (There are about a dozen or so others, as we well know to add to this one)
I think it’s time for everyone to contact their reps in Congress and demand that impeachment charges be begun immediately.
This latest intel flap has caused a total erosion of any trust in this leadership thus rendering them totally ineffective at this point. Bush and Cheney are caught in a vice right now from which there is no escape.
December 4th, 2007 at 4:16 pmOnce the date and time stamps on Bush and Cheney’s press conferences and sound bites are accumulated and shown to the public, there will be no escaping the fact that they knew about Iran’s 2003 dismantling of nukes and, instead, disregarded this material fact in their war trumping. Lie upon lie upon lie.
anyone else notice that the GOP operatives and trolls are noticeably absent from this issue?? Hey, what can you say. They’ve all been “had” by career criminals and pathological liars.
December 4th, 2007 at 4:18 pmAgain the Bush administration “stays the course” on making sure they’re consistently not on the side of Truth.
The most dishonest and corrupt administration ever.
December 4th, 2007 at 4:18 pmRalph: How can anyone defend known liars at this point? The only escape from this is to have them both declared insane which will be their defense in court and the Hague.
December 4th, 2007 at 4:20 pmHi Willy! At least they’re consistent on one thing: Consistently lying.
December 4th, 2007 at 4:20 pmThe proof that the white house has had this intel for at least 6 months will be indisputable and will come from a variety of sources, not the least of which is the NIE personnel themselves. No one is going to take the hit for Bush any longer. They’ll hang him out to dry this time. He bashed our intel agencies instead of admitting that he’d lied about Iraq. It won’t happen again.
December 4th, 2007 at 4:22 pmI’m guessing that the disheveled shadow of a man whom we saw today trying to spin his way out of what he’s done (notice how critical it was that he come out with his lies immediately – it broke yesterday and he was on the telly this AM – wow – took him 5 days to get water to Katrina victims yet when it comes to covering his own derriere he’s Bushie on the Spot) may be in his infamous “last throes”. It’s a shame it’s not like Parliament where he could realize how many viewers were booing and throwing things at the screen.
December 4th, 2007 at 4:24 pmHe’s cooked and he knows it.
John,
Many people in the intel community casted doubts about Iraq’s WMD program and were ignored or silenced. The intel’s at the time were rewarded for telling Bush what he wanted to hear, and punished for not doing so.
December 4th, 2007 at 4:25 pmIran ‘will welcome West policy change’
Iranian Foreign Minister Manouchehr Mottaki says Tehran will welcome a change of policy by the West after new US intelligence report.
In an exclusive interview with Press TV on Tuesday, Mottaki said the US National Intelligence Estimate, released on Monday, confirms the UN nuclear watchdog’s stance on the Iranian nuclear program.
“Americans are facing a dilemma right now and they have to make the right decision,†he said.
The Iranian minister said while President George W. Bush has repeatedly stated the US is not planning to ‘attack Iran’; the White House insists the military option is still on the table.
“This is because Washington seeks to put pressure on Tehran, despite Iran’s extensive and positive cooperation with the International Atomic Energy Agency over its nuclear program,” Mottaki said.
The Iranian minister added that the White House, however, has been isolated due to its hostile and wrong policies towards the Islamic Republic.
The US democrats in the Senate have called on Bush to rethink his policies on Iran. The American nation also seeks to have relations with Tehran, he continued.
Mottaki concluded by saying that while Tehran will not abandon its nuclear rights, Iran is willing to welcome a new US rational stance towards the Iranian nation.
http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=33713§ionid=351020104
TO DEMOCRATS I URGE YOU TO TAKE IRAN UP ON THIS MOMENTOUS DAY
December 4th, 2007 at 4:25 pmJK here has the Hanity’s version of prefacing a question with his own smear. Well done JK. You have created an impervious shell around you.
December 4th, 2007 at 4:25 pmspeak for yourself, reichwingnut John Kerry. No one here said anything of the kind. Nice try to put words in our mouths. Is this the new “talking point” coming out of RNC? If so, it’s a pretty lame one. Get lost.
December 4th, 2007 at 4:25 pmLoud applause for JK, our resident piss-soaked troll who has outdone himself in being nabbed putting words in our mouths. I notice that I was able to smoke you out though. You nutjobs are so predictable.
December 4th, 2007 at 4:27 pmJohn Kerry is saying we should never trust the Intelligence community. Well when to we save a bunch of money by eliminating those programs?
December 4th, 2007 at 4:27 pmRNC trolls have absolutely nothing they can intelligently spin on this one….This is the big one which is taking down this administration and the GOP with it.
December 4th, 2007 at 4:28 pmThe IAEA has sealed a consignment of enriched uranium bound for Iran, after an inspection at Russia’s Novosibirsk chemical plant.
December 4th, 2007 at 4:28 pmJK: Just for the record, it was your little poodle, Chimpy, who bashed his own intelligence agencies – not us.
December 4th, 2007 at 4:28 pmJohn Kerry,
I was never for the Iraq war. I never felt that was the best course of action to take. I knew Bush was a bad choice in 2000.
Don’ put words in my mouth either, boy.
December 4th, 2007 at 4:28 pmPlease help!
Comment by John Kerry
Yo john. I can help bring about peace on earth. You know how? STFU.
Your side is so tied up in knots you don’t know which lie to reach for. I am trying to imagine how it feels to have backed a total failure as president – all the while thinkng that the planet was going to look to him with respect.
I bet you do lousy when you visit Las Vegas, huh?
December 4th, 2007 at 4:29 pmCaptain Manlover: “For years progressives have been lamenting the preformance of our national intelligence. Now that the NIE comes out with some report that progressives can use to promote an agenda, national intelligence is somehow infallible.”
This is, of course, a deeply cynical and grusome straw man argument. What “the left” as well as many former members of the intelligence commuity have lamented is that the administration cherry picked bits and pieces of questionable “intelligence” reports to build a bogus case and then blamed the whole thing on “bad intelligence.”
December 4th, 2007 at 4:29 pmYou know (wink wink) that irresponsible CIA and that incompetent FBI of ours….they botched the intelligence for the Chimp. (yeah right, believe this one and I’ve got a bridge in NY to sell ya!).
December 4th, 2007 at 4:29 pmStratRat: Nice takedown of the JK troll!
December 4th, 2007 at 4:30 pmJohn Kerry: “Since all of you left nutters doubt the CIA…”
Same, grusome bogus argument, but expressed with less intelligence than Captain Manlover.
December 4th, 2007 at 4:30 pmBush cherry picked his own intel agencies and reports and then blamed them for bad intel. You’ve got to love the sheer hypocrisy of this sociopath.
December 4th, 2007 at 4:31 pmnobody can explain how happy I am with this lastest news on Iran , It means we are not going to see images of Iranian children with their skin melting off their body , or children being vapourised by American Nuclear Bombs . The war is Off , time for the demcrats to do the decent thing and Talk to Iran
December 4th, 2007 at 4:33 pmLies and the lying liars who tell them.
December 4th, 2007 at 4:33 pmBTW,
Ken MealyMouthMehlman is gay.
December 4th, 2007 at 4:33 pmStratRat: Nice takedown of the JK troll!
Comment by Veritas
Thanks…I am reminded of the Seinfeld episode where George Costanza decides to do everything the opposite. That sort of logic just may work with the right side. At least it would be a step in the proper direction.
December 4th, 2007 at 4:33 pm“ATTENTION ALL LIBS!!
HELP! One question! Will anyone PLEASE answer this!!
Since all of you left nutters doubt the CIA, etc etc intelligence about WMD’s and call them liars, etc etc, then why should you expect us to believe this new report on Iran???
Please help!”
Let me try. I don’t think we heard from the CIA (other than Tenet, who was just trying to impress his frat brother) on WMD in Iraq. What we heard from was the Cheney / Rumy / Wolfy White House Iraq “intelligence” operation.
I don’t really care if you believe the NIE or not. What it does say is that the US has no blooming idea of what Iran has, where it has it or when it got it. Presumably, we gave Iran a bunch of the stuff (just like Iraq).
The one thing I’d really like all you righties and war-hungry armchair warriors to understand, however, is that bombing and / or invading Iran is not going to go any better than Iraq did, is going to cost a lot more and is going to do even more damage (if that is actually possible) to the US than anything W et al have done since 9/12/2001.
December 4th, 2007 at 4:34 pmBush Cover Up: Wasn’t it Billary who criticized Obama when he suggested talking to our enemies – aka diplomacy? Methinks that Hillary’s going down in flames along with the Chimp now.
December 4th, 2007 at 4:35 pmStratRat: Every aspect of this administration is Orwellian – right out of 1984. I just bought a copy of it to reread it and I’m amazing at they’ve taken things right from the Orwell novel. Opposite meanings, called Doublespeak, is the hallmark of these neofascists.
December 4th, 2007 at 4:37 pmYes, I recall the Seinfeld episode well – miss the show actually. I was a fan.
Anyone else find the universe’s irony in Bush/cheney being outed for their lies on precisely the same day that Wolfie, the war criminal, is added to the administration as a “WMD expert”. I find that very amusing and so serendipitous.
December 4th, 2007 at 4:38 pmHillary is PRO WAR no matter how much she professes to the contrary. I look at the way an individual votes – and not the spin and bullshit they spew. Hillary’s 2 for 2 now with her war votes. This means serious trouble to this country. We cannot permit another war monger to occupy the oval office again any time soon.
Yep, she’s got her nose firmly and deeply up AIPAC’s butt…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BX3An_S4uZI
December 4th, 2007 at 4:38 pmJK=po
December 4th, 2007 at 4:40 pmJK?
December 4th, 2007 at 4:43 pm“Bush Cover up” you are so spot on. The fact that it exposes the most heinous lies an administration can possibly tell is interesting, but predictable. The fact that it’s going to make it much harder for them to attack Iran is fantastic. I’m feeling much better about the situation now because I fully expected Bush to attack Iran before the next election. Now, I don’t think he can do it. You know, the Persians have been playing strategy games for thousands of years. I can’t help but think they know a little more about our politics than we think.
December 4th, 2007 at 4:45 pm“Hillary is PRO WAR no matter how much she professes to the contrary. I look at the way an individual votes – and not the spin and bullshit they spew. Hillary’s 2 for 2 now with her war votes. This means serious trouble to this country. We cannot permit another war monger to occupy the oval office again any time soon.”
On the basis of two votes in the Senate that are much more complex than you think despite your adolescent understanding of how that congressional body works, you have somehow read a Senator’s mind to discern her inner motivations. But I’m interested. Are you aware of any other Dems who voted her way, possibly Dems who are “straight talkers” or “not as ambitious as Hillary” or maybe “good guys”?
And, just for the sake of argument, fellow Dems or liberals, when Obama blatantly lies in our faces about his own healthcare program and then uses Republican “spin points” as scare-tactics on social security and healthcare to fight the vile Hillary Clinton, why isn’t that a “character issue?”
December 4th, 2007 at 4:50 pm85 – What!? The people who invented algebra are going to out-play the people who can’t do algebra?? That’s just preposterous!
December 4th, 2007 at 4:53 pmJohn Kerry: “…nutters…” ????!!!
Nutters? Dude, I think you’ve been spending a little too much time with your Harry Potter stories.
December 4th, 2007 at 4:53 pmThat “john kerry” troll is a HOOT!!
December 4th, 2007 at 4:54 pmThe republican party will be thrashed in 08. Their only chance of survival is to distance themselves from this adminstration. The hammer is coming down on Bush and his cronies. The constitution will rise again and justice will prevail.
December 4th, 2007 at 4:55 pmBush Cover up, if you’re there I want to make something clear. My post praising you for your observation appears, at my second reading, to be an argument happy about the political aspects, but not necessarily the humanitarian.
I want to stress that I agree with you that the most important thing about this is that we probably will not see death and destruction rained on the people of Iran. We can breath a little easier today. I was dreading it.
December 4th, 2007 at 4:56 pmThe latest polls on party preference for 2008 for congressional and presidential irrespective of candidate average about 50% Dem and 36% Repub and it’s the largest gap since they began doing this particular type of polling in 1990.
December 4th, 2007 at 4:58 pm#87 Talking to yourself again I see. You know that’s the first sign of insanity.
December 4th, 2007 at 4:59 pmCol. Jack: If you found this poll today stating that there are 36% Repubs left out there, I’ll eat this keyboard. Math, evidently, was never your forte since there are now 36% Registered Unaffiliated voters out there. Where are they in your dubious stat?
December 4th, 2007 at 5:01 pmThe fact is that there are only 28% registered Republitards left in this country at this point. You’d better find some more current research, dude.
December 4th, 2007 at 5:02 pmVeritas: “Talking to my self again…”
So sweet of you to be concerned. Just so you’ll know, because I find myself defending her so often, I’m a liberal. So my favorite candidate on the issues is Dennis Kuchinich. My second favorite candidate happens to be someone who has a chance. I like John Edwards a lot because corporations hate his guts. He and Kuchinich are the only candidates talking about corporate power and working class issues.
So it’s as strange to me that I end up sticking up for her as it is for you.
December 4th, 2007 at 5:04 pmCol Jack: I make it my business to keep track of how our congressmen vote; in fact, I do recall that Billary, Edwards, and Biden all voted “aye” to enable the illegal war in Iraq. Obama wasn’t in congress yet to vote so I hope you’re not referring to Obama in your assertion.
The sad fact is that Hillary was the only Dem candidate to vote “aye” the second time to enable a potential war with Iran. This she will have an impossible time ’splainin’, I fear.
Everyone used the trite and hackneyed excuse “we were tricked by the chimp” and that seemed to have some legitimacy to it since Bush did lie to them; however, being duped twice reminds me of the adage: “First time you dupe me, shame on you; second time you dupe me, shame on me”.
Clearly, we cannot afford at this critical precipice upon which this country finds itself today to elect one with flawed judgment not once but twice. We cannot afford to have another war monger in the white house – simple as that.
December 4th, 2007 at 5:06 pmColonel: Is your mother still alive? Just wondering because I suspect that you’ve just discovered a morsel about yourself if your answer is no.
December 4th, 2007 at 5:07 pmveritas & Ret. Col. Jack Ripper
Thanks for your Kind comments
and 88 very funny
December 4th, 2007 at 5:18 pmJohn Kerry produce, evidence of those “talking points” you know, quotes from past TP threads, etc.
December 4th, 2007 at 5:25 pmDo the democrats read my posts or something ????
US Democrats: Time for new Iran policy
Senior US Democrats urge President George W. Bush to consider ‘a top-to-bottom review of his Iran policy’ after the US intelligence report.
Now that the intelligence community has confirmed there is no evidence Tehran is pursuing nuclear arms ‘President Bush’s heated rhetoric on Iran, including comments about a potential World War Three, is even more outrageous,†said Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid.
“He should announce that his Secretary of State and Secretary of Defense are prepared to meet anytime, anywhere with their Iranian counterparts to conduct vigorous diplomacy to advance US interests,” he added.
Meanwhile, US Democratic presidential candidates have criticized President Bush’s claim that ‘nothing has changed’ despite the new report.
“This president will not let facts get in the way of his ideology,” said Senator Barack Obama. â€They should have stopped the saber rattling, should never have started it,” he added.
Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton also said Bush “should seize this opportunity” while her rival Senator Joe Biden termed Bush as ‘not trustworthy’.
http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=33714§ionid=3510203
December 4th, 2007 at 5:30 pmHey Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid,
The Chimya and his boss Cheney, need to be impeached. How much more evidence do you need?
December 4th, 2007 at 5:52 pmhttp://www.vetvoice.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=198
“Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans wrote to the House and Senate committees on Intelligence today, demanding immediate hearings on the whole National Intelligence Estimate matter.”
The entire letter is posted at the above link
December 4th, 2007 at 5:59 pmVeritas: “Colonel: Is your mother still alive?”
Oh, please. Give it a frickin rest. I support Dennis Kuchinich and John Edwards, but if you don’t think it’s a disgrace to our democracy that we’ve never had a woman running things, you’re a complete dick.
I expected that any woman we would get would be a blood & guts conservative on the order of a Thatcher. I will gladly pull the lever for Hillary Clinton if she’s the Democratic candidate. She’s a centrist and she takes corporate money, but she’s miles better than any of the crackpots the Repubs are offering for a choice.
I have never gotten exactly what I wanted from the Democratic party, but what they’ve offered has always been better than the alternative.
December 4th, 2007 at 5:59 pmMy prediction: Progressives will be spending next week disputing the intelligence report and denying that Bush policy could be responsible for any positive movement on the Iranian nuke issue.
Comment by CaptainMantastic — December 4, 2007 @ 5:51 pm
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My prediction: This will not change Bush’s foreign policy at all, and republicans will continue to push for war with Iran
December 4th, 2007 at 6:01 pmCaptain Mantastic Neocon-speak: “I appreciate Bush’s leadership on the issue, despite the thin partisan demogogary.”
Translation in English: “I know my leaders lied in our faces, but I love my leader.”
December 4th, 2007 at 6:01 pmI have never gotten exactly what I wanted from the Democratic party, but what they’ve offered has always been better than the alternative.
Comment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper — December 4, 2007 @ 5:59 pm
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One of my favorite quotes from Kucinich “If you vote for the lesser of two evils, you’re still voting for evil.”
December 4th, 2007 at 6:02 pmChris, Biden has already made it more than clear on at least three public occasions that if Bush makes war on Iran, Biden and a number of other Senators will move immediately on impeachment. What that evidently means is that they will work with Pelosi to quickly bring charges.
December 4th, 2007 at 6:03 pmChris, Biden has already made it more than clear on at least three public occasions that if Bush makes war on Iran, Biden and a number of other Senators will move immediately on impeachment. What that evidently means is that they will work with Pelosi to quickly bring charges.
Comment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper — December 4, 2007 @ 6:03 pm
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I sincerely hope you are right, but anytime I try to conflate logic with this administrations actions, it fails. They will listen to a congressman who goes over to Iraq for four days – McCain – and says everything is peachy. But they won’t listen to a congressman – Rep. Patrick Murphy – who is an actual OIF veteran, and the only one serving in congress. Honestly, I hope we don’t have to find out.
December 4th, 2007 at 6:07 pmChris L.: “One of my favorite quotes from Kucinich “If you vote for the lesser of two evils, you’re still voting for evil.â€
Yes Chris, I’ve heard that one a lot. I especially heard it during the 2000 election. The idea was that Al Gore was “evil” as well as Bush. It was an argument which many used to justify a vote for Ralph Nader, who had spent months telling them that there was no difference between Gore and Bush. If one out of ten Florida Green Party voters had rejected that argument, we wouldn’t be in Iraq.
December 4th, 2007 at 6:16 pmWill they also move against Hillary Clinton if she’s elected:
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2007/2/3/1337/72476
Comment by CaptainMantastic — December 4, 2007 @ 6:21 pm
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I sincerely hope so.
December 4th, 2007 at 6:25 pmHillary is not going to be attacking Iran or any other nation that is no threat to us.
I’d like everyone to keep in mind that the two arguably most progressive presidents of the last 100 years, Republican Teddy Roosevelt and Democrat Franklin Roosevelt entered office as centrists, but they were both competent and in touch enough to recognize popular groundswells of opinion that we needed progressive policies. I’d feel more comfortable with John Edwards because I know he’s dedicated to fighting corporate power, but I’m not going to assume Hillary couldn’t do what’s right either.
December 4th, 2007 at 6:25 pmCaptain Mantastic: “How much deterence do you instill when you commit to impeach you leader if they have to act militarily.
Would that have been a good strategy in 1940? I guess it would have made planning easier for the Germans”
Are you comparing the Iranians to 1940 Germany? And, I’d like to remind you that our military was under fire during impeachment hearings for Clinton and Nixon.
December 4th, 2007 at 6:28 pmBy the way, you guys are citing an article written back in February of this year, when Hillary, a Senator with a sizable Jewish constituency in New York, was reacting politically to a Holocaust-denying seminar run by the head of the Iranian government and at a time when many in the media and the government were warning of an Iranian nuclear weapons program.
Here’s a thought: why don’t we wait and see where she stands today knowing what we all now know.
December 4th, 2007 at 6:34 pmCapt:
“it looks like Bush’s foreign policy was the motivation for Iran to halt it;”
actually…
“Iran put a stop to weapons-related activities, including efforts to study warhead design and delivery systems, shortly after U.N. inspectors began probing allegations of a clandestine nuclear program. ” -WP
December 4th, 2007 at 6:35 pm“Hillary is not going to be attacking Iran or any other nation that is no threat to us.”
Sorry, but she has failed on both of the occasions that were opportunities for her to prove otherwise.
December 4th, 2007 at 6:44 pmIsrael’s been around since 1940?
December 4th, 2007 at 6:44 pm122 – don’t bother. please.
December 4th, 2007 at 6:49 pm“You mean when the meth hit wears off? or when you’re done molesting the neighbor’s children?”
Comment by republicans hate facts
I’m betting it’s a two-fer.
December 4th, 2007 at 7:24 pmRickS: “Israel’s been around since 1940?”
Has Iran attacked Israel? In 1940, how many countries had Germany attacked? Would you say Iran’s “war machine” is comparable to Germany’s?
December 4th, 2007 at 7:26 pmWe know Israel has possessed nuclear weapons for quite some time now. Does anyone here think Iran DOESN’T??!!
December 4th, 2007 at 7:28 pmWell, by May of 1940, Germany had taken over Austria (1938), Czechoslovakia (1938), Poland (1939), Denmark (1940), Norway (1940), The Netherlands (1940), Belgium (1940), Luxemburg (1940), France (1940), and the Channel Islands (1940).
By the end of 1941, Germany would overrun Greece, Yugoslavia, and a large chunk of the Soviet Union.
Iran has invaded,……………um,…………
December 4th, 2007 at 10:25 pm