White House Still Won’t Answer When Bush First Learned Iran Halted Its Nuclear Weapons Program
White House Still Won’t Answer When Bush First Learned Iran Halted Its Nuclear Weapons Program
On Monday, the Bush administration released the National Intelligence Estimate on Iran, which revealed that “in fall 2003, Tehran halted its nuclear weapons program.” The revelation contradicted public statements from Bush administration officials over recent months warning that Iran was quickly developing a nuclear weapons program.
National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley said Bush was briefed last Wednesday on the NIE report, but had learned there was new information on Iran’s program sometime “in the last few months.” Bush claimed yesterday that he was told “in August” by DNI Mike McConnell that “we have some new information.” But Bush claimed McConnell didn’t tell him what the information was.
It has now been two days since the NIE was released, and the White House is still unable to answer the most basic question about when Bush first learned that Iran halted its nuclear weapons program. This morning, in a press briefing with reporters, White House spokesman Tony Fratto waffled on three direct questions about whether Bush knew that Iran had halted its nuclear weapons program months ago:
QUESTION: Just to clarify one point from the press conference yesterday, the President was — said that he was told by Mr. McConnell, just generally, that there had been some new intelligence and that people were taking another look at it. Did the President at that point ask any follow-up? Did Mr. McConnell offer any comments that, in fact, there might have to be a serious reevaluation of the whole intelligence?
FRATTO: What Director McConnell said is that we’re going to go back and do rigorous analysis of this intelligence, and when we can be certain of it, we’re going to come back and talk to you — and that’s what they did. [...]
QUESTION: In that conversation did McConnell tell him that our previous intelligence could be all wrong? How — (inaudible) — was he about that?
FRATTO: I don’t have anything on that. [...]
QUESTION: I just want to follow up on Mike’s question. Was there any indication from McConnell of the nature of the intelligence in the meeting in August?
FRATTO: I can’t give you more detail on what Director McConnell said to the President.
In an interview with CNN’s Rick Sanchez yesterday, former Bush administration official Flynt Leverett suggested the White House is being dishonest about what it knew. “I can’t imagine that McConnell…would tell the President about this and not tell him what the information actually said,” Leverett said.
On PBS’ Newshour with Jim Lehrer last night, Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Jay Rockefeller (D-WV) said, “I was really struck when the president said that he only got the final judgments on Tuesday,” adding that he “can’t believe” that McConnell’s indication of new information didn’t prevent the President from “talking about a nuclear holocaust.”
QUESTION: Just to clarify one point from the press conference yesterday, the President was — said that he was told by Mr. McConnell, just generally, that there had been some new intelligence and that people were taking another look at it. Did the President at that point ask any follow-up? Did Mr. McConnell offer any comments that, in fact, there might have to be a serious reevaluation of the whole intelligence?
FRATTO: What Director McConnell said is that we’re going to go back and do rigorous analysis of this intelligence, and when we can be certain of it, we’re going to come back and talk to you — and that’s what they did. I’ve seen some criticism of, number one, of the international — I mean, of the intelligence community in the last couple days, which I think is just incredibly misguided. The intelligence community is out there doing very difficult, courageous work to try to get the intelligence right. They’re doing it in some of the most hardened places to try to acquire this intelligence, and they’re doing an astounding job of it, under Director McConnell’s leadership. And then I’ve seen some criticism of the leadership of the intelligence community for not being more forthcoming, and I think this is also unfounded. It is important, if you’re going to tell the Congress and the American people and the President of the United States an important piece of intelligence information, that it be rigorously analyzed, that you have the highest degree of confidence. And that’s what they went back and did and they took the extra time to do that.
And then I’ve seen criticism that the President should have either changed his rhetoric or asked more. What he asked of his intelligence community was to tell him what was right when you know it’s right, and that’s what they did. In terms of rhetoric, there is no rhetoric to change when the facts on the ground still suggest to any reasonable observer that Iran poses a threat and is a destabilizing force, unless they change their activities.
QUESTION: In that conversation did McConnell tell him that our previous intelligence could be all wrong? How — (inaudible) — was he about that?
FRATTO: I don’t have anything on that.
[...]
QUESTION: I just want to follow up on Mike’s question. Was there any indication from McConnell of the nature of the intelligence in the meeting in August?
FRATTO: I can’t give you more detail on what Director McConnell said to the President.
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That’s a state secret! Executive prvivelege! A president has to be able to meet with his advisors and decide how best to put one over on the American People!
December 5th, 2007 at 1:33 pmBush isn’t even a competent liar.
December 5th, 2007 at 1:33 pmoops…not typing well today.
December 5th, 2007 at 1:34 pmDidn’t Nixon get sunk about lying about some audio tapes? Doesn’t trying to lie us into WWIII count as important?
December 5th, 2007 at 1:35 pmOh, they’re able. Ability has nothing to do with it. They’re not willing, and that’s the key!
December 5th, 2007 at 1:35 pmAccording to Gareth Porter (interviewed on Democracy Now today), the Vice President had the NIE in November 2006 but didn’t like what it said:
http://www.democracynow.org/2007/12/5/what_did_bush_know_on_iran
December 5th, 2007 at 1:37 pmBush is the perfect example of the new Republican party – lie, lie and lie. A real press corps would have called the President on these actions a long time ago. It has enabled him and fooled a large part of the public who do not follow the news closely. Their repetition of his lies without calling him out only leads to a large number giving credence to his falsehoods.
December 5th, 2007 at 1:37 pmWe’d be lucky to get a straight answer in sworn testimony–so in an interview, forget it! The Big Lie is alive and well and living on Pennsylvania Avenue.
December 5th, 2007 at 1:41 pmThreatening sovereign states with military action on the basis of possessing scientific know-how is a War Crime in itself. Iran has quite rightly made a public statement that the nuclear dossier is CLOSED and the Islamic Republic is ready for ANY eventuality.
December 5th, 2007 at 1:41 pmJust pay attention to Bush’s body language on the press conference after NIE report was released. They way this lier position himself on the podium trying to look important, but his shoulders and his face trying to smile is just like a spoilled kid cought lying! It is pathetic! The USA has become the laughing-stock of the World!
December 5th, 2007 at 1:41 pmWho do you think you’re fooling?
December 5th, 2007 at 1:42 pmRussia dismisses U.S. claims Iran sought nuke prior to 2003
Russia has no information on Iranian attempts to develop nuclear weapons before 2003, Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said on Wednesday.
http://en.rian.ru/
December 5th, 2007 at 1:42 pmDang, look at that photo and mouth the words “leader of the free world” and try to keep your lunch down.
December 5th, 2007 at 1:43 pmUmmm, it’s NUCULAR Program. C’mon, get with the program.
December 5th, 2007 at 1:45 pmYou can see the video here . bush is a lying crok of shit you can see it
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=bbf_1196823624
December 5th, 2007 at 1:45 pmOh Nancy! What’s your take on all this? Isn’t it time for a table dance?
December 5th, 2007 at 1:46 pm“What Director McConnell said is that we’re going to go back and do rigorous analysis of this intelligence”
December 5th, 2007 at 1:49 pm- – In Bushspeak, this means, “we’re going to parse and frag the hell outta out of the intelligence so we can save our butts on this massive screwup.”
Comment by Bush Cover Ups
Hey, great links there. Thanks.
December 5th, 2007 at 1:49 pmOh Nancy! What’s your take on all this? Isn’t it time for a table dance?
Comment by Menehune
That is exactly the most intriguing part of this. Where is the opposition party to all of this?
December 5th, 2007 at 1:50 pmStuff like this makes me think http://isBushStillPresident.com will be updated sooner than Jan 2009.
December 5th, 2007 at 1:50 pmAs far as I can tell Shrub may be telling the truth. After all he is the puppet.
The better question is when did Dick “Dath” Cheney know about Iran’s program stoppage and why are the Israeli’s angry that we know the truth about Iran’s program. Afterall Dick is the real president
December 5th, 2007 at 1:50 pmlet me get this right
McConnell walks into a room and says “we have new information on Iran”
then Im expected to believe that Bush says
A/ If you think I might like it tell me now
B / If you think I might not like it , tell me later
CHENEY DID EXACTLY THE SAME THING ON IRAQ – I wish I could find the text
December 5th, 2007 at 1:51 pmBush Calls on Iran to ‘Come Clean’
This is the current AP headline relating to this issue. Who knew that vicious irony could sting so badly.
December 5th, 2007 at 1:54 pmI’ll answer for him July 2007. Do you think even the dullest dullard of a president would not be informed of any estimate? The only plausible excuse would be that the vice-president somehow intercepted the estimate and conspired to criminally withhold it from him with Karl Rove, the chief of staff, the NSA and others. So either Bush is lying or his entire inner circle needs to be jailed.
December 5th, 2007 at 1:55 pm” Fool me once, shame on – shame on you. Fool me – you can’t get fooled again.â€
December 5th, 2007 at 1:56 pmI think this references Bush’s repeated claims that he has a ‘higher knowledge’ that he refers to whenever confronted with information that directly contradicts what he’s been saying.
The voices in his head keep telling him the ‘truth’….
December 5th, 2007 at 1:56 pmThere are so many IMPEACHABLE ofenses from this criminals administration!!!!!!!!!!! Why they are still running the show???!!! What do they want? Revolution????
December 5th, 2007 at 1:57 pmcaption contest —
“OK, so I can’t pronounce nook-yoo-lur — big, fat, hairy deal.”
“OK, so we effed up on the nook-yoo-lurs in Iran — big, fat, hairy deal.”
“OK, so I’m a moron — big, fat, hairy deal.”
Any way you look at it, Dumbya is just a big, fat, hairy [insert your favorite anatomical feature here].
December 5th, 2007 at 1:57 pm17. I fear we have no opposition party. At least not in Congress. I don’t know if they’re blackmailed, or simply paid off, but where there should be a chorus of voices raised there is nothing but silence.
December 5th, 2007 at 1:58 pmOnly fools got fooled in 2003 WMD fiction! Around the Globe people saw it for what it was: Lies!
December 5th, 2007 at 1:59 pmYou’ll notice that Bush only becomes comfortable and confident when he can slip into a condescending “teaching” mode and spew amorphous platitudes like, “well, when the intelligence community gathers intelligence, they want to be sure the intelligence is accurate.” No shit, Sherlock. Please leave now.
December 5th, 2007 at 2:00 pmNo comment, except to laugh my ass off at the chymp’s expression int he photo….
December 5th, 2007 at 2:02 pmWha?? Me Worry???
Wow….The Democrats are ZZzzzzZZZZing again :( Nancy. Reid. Clinton. Webb? No ones is asking questions?
December 5th, 2007 at 2:03 pmGood for the Neocons….They might argue their way out of this big hole they dug themselves. Bad for the country, who knows, WWIII isnt just something really scarey after all. We’ve seen a synopsis in Iraq. The Israelis wont leave this country until they’ve crash-landed it.
Long live the Empire.
Bush did one thing right, he insulted David Gregory by sarcastically calling him an august reporter. That’s right David that’s what you get for being a puppet for evil, you get insulted in front of your peers. It’s a big joke when he sticks it to the rest of the American people but I bet you didn’t like being treated like a fools so much did you. Good.
December 5th, 2007 at 2:03 pmGeorge Bush Today
“The Iranians have a strategic choice to make,†he said. “They can come clean with the international community about the scope of their nuclear activities, and fully accept the long-standing offer to suspend their enrichment program and come to the table and negotiate, or they can continue on a path of isolation.â€
1/ “They can come clean – THEY ALREADY HAVE THICKO
2/ with the international community _ WHO AMERICANS IGNORES AND CAN KIDNAP AND TORTURE IN ANY COUNTRY
3/ about the scope of their nuclear activities _ YES URANIUM TO 5% FOR POWER
4/ offer to suspend their enrichment program – THEY ALREADY DID THAT FROM 2002 to 2005 AND YOU DOUBLE CROSSED THEM AND THE EUROPEAN NEGOTIATORS
5/ come to the table and negotiate – YOU ARE THE ONES WHO DONT WANT TO TALK
6/ path of isolation – COULD BE NO WORSE THAN THE AMERICAN ISOLATIONISM IS SUFFERING AT PRESENT
conclusion :- get a new president , every sentence Bush speaks is utter garbage
December 5th, 2007 at 2:03 pmThe better question is when did Dick “Dath†Cheney know about Iran’s program stoppage and why are the Israeli’s angry that we know the truth about Iran’s program. Afterall Dick is the real president
Comment by Rebel in CA — December 5, 2007 @ 1:50 pm
November 2006. But he sent it back several times because he didn’t like the results.
December 5th, 2007 at 2:04 pmSHAME ON THE DEMOCRATS!!!! SHAME ON PELOSI! SHE SHOULD BE OFF THE TABLE! WITH WHAT IS HAPPENING WITH THIS NIE REPORT, THE RETHORIC OF THR WH, AND THE ‘WE ARE DOING NOTHING’ FROM THE DEMOCRATS, IT IS A CASE FOR EVERY AMERICAN TO SURROUND THE WHITE HOUSE AND CONGRESS AND DEMAND IMEDIAT ACTION TO IMPEACH, INDICT AND IMPRISON THIS CRIMINAL ADMINISTRATION! PEOPLE DIED… NOT ONE OR TWO, BUT TWO MILLION IRAQUI CIVILIANS, 4000 AMERICAN SOLDIERS… I CAN NOT BELIEVE THAT THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT HANDCUFFED YET!
December 5th, 2007 at 2:04 pmOh Nancy! What’s your take on all this? Isn’t it time for a table dance?
Comment by Menehune
Priceless.
If she’s not going to table dance, then she should do W a lap dance.
December 5th, 2007 at 2:05 pmAny bets on how long it takes before Chimpy throws McConnell under the bus for “withholding vital intelligence asssessments”?
I mean, really — if McConnell told Bush “we have new intelligence” but then said “but I’m not going to tell you what it is”, isn’t that grounds for dimsissing him as DNI?
December 5th, 2007 at 2:05 pmMcConnell ~ We’ll get back to you as soon as we’ve translated it into fourth grade english, with pictures and stuff, you know, like a graphic novelly thingy.
December 5th, 2007 at 2:06 pm“FRATTO: I can’t give you more detail on what Director McConnell said to the President. ”
And now we have the Daily Show with Tony Frodo today instead of our legally blonde WH spokesperson this time.
Bush is just a propped up blow-up doll President. Bush’s concentration is on watching Sesame Street and eating a bag of Cheetos. Those questions about the NIE should be directed to George’s boss Cheney since he is running the White House. While Bush and Cheney are feeding the Iran propaganda, Sadr tells Bush today to get out of Iraq.
December 5th, 2007 at 2:08 pmThere is an easy solution. Put Mc Connell under oath and then impeach whomever is the liar.
December 5th, 2007 at 2:08 pmOn one hand we have WWIII
On the other we have Iran ceasing their Nuclear Weapons program.
I say, I think we’re splitting hairs here aren’t we?
December 5th, 2007 at 2:09 pmDang, look at that photo and mouth the words “leader of the free world†and try to keep your lunch down.
Comment by bernard quatermass — December 5, 2007 @ 1:43 pm
To me, he looks like a contestant on Wheel of Fortune looking at the puzzle, I _ucke_ up wondering if he needs to buy a vowel.
December 5th, 2007 at 2:09 pmSA ~!~ Priceless!!!
December 5th, 2007 at 2:10 pmOn the other we have Iran ceasing their Nuclear Weapons program.
Russia dismisses U.S. claims Iran sought nuke prior to 2003
Russia has no information on Iranian attempts to develop nuclear weapons before 2003, Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said on Wednesday.
http://en.rian.ru/
December 5th, 2007 at 2:12 pmIf she’s not going to table dance, then she should do W a lap dance.
Comment by RUCerious — December 5, 2007 @ 2:05
Isnt that what she’s already been doing?
December 5th, 2007 at 2:13 pmLooks to me like he’s saying “Hey! Whoever smelt it, dealt it!”
December 5th, 2007 at 2:14 pmimpeachment still off the table nancy? any senators out there with balls?
December 5th, 2007 at 2:14 pmtoaster, I thought it was Oct 2006 when it was first completed. I’d like to see the report before they started to try to appease Cheney. Maybe there was no program at all, as Russia & others are saying.
December 5th, 2007 at 2:16 pmIran ceasing their Nuclear Weapons program in 2003
The Russians have asked repeatedly for the information the Americans have on prior to 2003 and it turns out to be a laptop , with how to build a bomb details BUT the laptop was given to them from American spies
seems like Iran did NOT have a Nuclear weapons program at all
December 5th, 2007 at 2:18 pmExecutive Privilege! If you expect an honest answer out of this bunch of crooks, I advise you to give it up. There’s no way they are going to willingly tell the truth. But, there seems to be lots of people these days who are willing to out Bush on his lies, so it’s going to be interesting what the next couple of weeks bring.
I find it totally impossible to believe that Bush didn’t know what was in the NIE until after it was released. There is no way they kept their hands out of that cookie jar. I am relieved, though, to see that our intelligence community is no longer allowing Bush to bully them.
December 5th, 2007 at 2:19 pmDo you believe the NIE report to be right or wrong regarding Iran’s Nuclear program?
http://www.youpolls.com/details.asp?pid=1211
.
December 5th, 2007 at 2:19 pmCaptio: Hey, I just got here!!
December 5th, 2007 at 2:22 pmWhat a joke! When someone has lost their credibility, they’ve lost their honor! When you have the reputation of being dishonest, you’ve lost your soul! I’m counting the minutes until all the networks and cable stations televise the final walk from the White House, across the lawn, into the helicopter to take George and Laura on their final trip home to Crawford, and we’re “rid” of them forever.
December 5th, 2007 at 2:22 pm51 PollM
the poll says 100% that the NIE report is correct THIS TIME
December 5th, 2007 at 2:24 pmAll I can say is that I can’t picture the Republicans in congress being silent if Hillary were found to be: A) obviously incompetent or B) obviously lying. Bush is one or the other, probably both and not a peep from Reid or Pelosi.
December 5th, 2007 at 2:26 pm53 Aanya – Ha ha Im actually visualizing that thought
Im even amazed Bush can sleep at night with all the trancedental negative thoughts I alone send him at nights , never mind the millions who wish for him to eat a pretzel and choke
December 5th, 2007 at 2:27 pmCan we PLEASE have a new president??? PLEASE?????
I’m tired of this one.
December 5th, 2007 at 2:30 pmWhy doesn’t someone in the press ask him why he is incompetent? I mean if McConnell HAD the information, and he was talking about Iran, a normal employee would have asked if there was something he needed to know before spouting off about WWIII.
They have to make him admit he is either stupid or lying.
December 5th, 2007 at 2:30 pmTo me, he looks like a contestant on Wheel of Fortune looking at the puzzle, I _ucke_ up wondering if he needs to buy a vowel.
Comment by Saint Augustine — December 5, 2007 @ 2:09 pm
I am really glad I had swallowed my drink before I read this! Very nice, St.A!
December 5th, 2007 at 2:36 pmHere are the salient points from the NIE:
1/ We judge with high confidence that the halt (in trying to develop nuclear weapons, not producing them) has lasted at least several years. (Four to be exact, a lifetime in war and politics).
We continue to assess with moderate-to-high confidence that Iran does not currently have a nuclear weapon. (Or has ever had one).
We judge with high confidence that Iran will not be capable of producing and reprocessing enough plutonium for a weapon before about 2015. (Which Bush – and for that matter Gates – flatly lied about this morning implying that the NIE said they could re-up anytime).
http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/29126
December 5th, 2007 at 2:36 pmI think the wheels are falling off this administration. The next few weeks ought to be fun to watch – stay tuned.
December 5th, 2007 at 2:37 pmtoaster, I thought it was Oct 2006 when it was first completed. I’d like to see the report before they started to try to appease Cheney. Maybe there was no program at all, as Russia & others are saying.
Comment by onoclea — December 5, 2007 @ 2:16 pm
Good luck with that. The first draft is probably locked in the man-sized safe along with the CIA courier who delivered it.
December 5th, 2007 at 2:38 pmI think the wheels are falling off this administration. The next few weeks ought to be fun to watch – stay tuned.
Comment by StratRat — December 5, 2007 @ 2:37 pm
I think they fell off a good three years ago. This administration has displayed a remarkable ability to drive around on its axles, completely oblivious to the damage they’re doing to the car (which in this metaphor represents the United States).
December 5th, 2007 at 2:40 pmFirst we need to get rid of Cheney and than Bush. It needs to be done soon like today.
December 5th, 2007 at 2:42 pmCaption:
“Beware the Dumbinator!”
December 5th, 2007 at 2:45 pmWow, they’d better run for the hills.
December 5th, 2007 at 2:46 pmThe Iraq lies should have been enough to put them in prison for life.
Now they’re found to have been trying to do the same thing again.
For universe sake people, this has go to be the last straw.
Surely they can’t spin themselves out of this hole.
Comment by RUCerious — December 5, 2007 @ 2:06 pm
I believe he prefers the hidden surprises of a pop-up book.
December 5th, 2007 at 2:47 pmIn case this is helpful, TP…
Larry Johnson is saying:
“The news that Iran ended its nuclear program in 2003 was briefed to George Bush in the Presidential Daily Brief. He has known about this, I am told, for at least one year.”
http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/coffeehouse/2007/dec/04/neocons_go_ballistic_on_iran_nie#comment-319490
December 5th, 2007 at 2:47 pmCaption:
Of course it stinks, two pounds of egg salad for lunch? Whaddya expect!
December 5th, 2007 at 2:48 pmI believe he prefers the hidden surprises of a pop-up book.
Comment by robbez_92107 — December 5, 2007 @ 2:47 pm
I’ve got a book for him.
One Page
One finger.
December 5th, 2007 at 2:50 pmCaption: Yeah, so sue me!
December 5th, 2007 at 2:50 pmYou say they didn’t lie because they didn’t have the current NIE? Bullshit. They said they knew that Iran had nuclear weapons, that Iran was about to start World War III. At the barest minimum they knew that was a lie. At the barest minimum they had no evidence to back that up – just as they had no evidence to back up their assertion that Saddam had nukes – yet they said that they did. They said they knew. That’s called lying. And they were willing to murder on a monumental scale – again – based on those lies.
If you won’t impeach now Ms Pelosi, you’re on your way to being as guilty as they. Those who enable high crimes and misdemeanors – including never let us forget, treason – become as culpable as the perpetrators. If you don’t impeach now, you will be an accomplice as will be all the others who stand with you – those who voted to declare the nuclear-free armed forces of a sovereign nation ‘terrorists’ for example, or one of your leading candidates for President who refused to take ‘off the table’ the ‘option’ of nuking innocent people who posed no threat to us, just so that she could look as tough as war-criminals.
Enough. This is the moment of enough. This is the moment where we lose or win back what was once and still can be again a great nation. Use the Constitution or lose the Constitution.
December 5th, 2007 at 2:50 pmOne Page
One finger.
Comment by RUCerious — December 5, 2007 @ 2:50 pm
—
I’m thinking hours of enertainment for Chimpy.
December 5th, 2007 at 2:54 pmCan I point out Iran is still enriching uranium? They don’t have the industrial wherewithal to build gas refineries for their own oil, a far more practical energy source considering their vast reserves, but they just have GOT to enrich uranium domestically. This when they have been offered nuclear fuel from Russia.
This is from IRNA
http://www2.irna.ir/en/news/view/line-203/0712056049175818.htm
The NIE is good in the sense that it allays an airstrike which would have had very bad consequences. But Iran will continue to enrich and sanctions are going to fall apart.
December 5th, 2007 at 2:58 pmOne Page
One finger.
Comment by RUCerious
Foley’s threesomes.
December 5th, 2007 at 2:59 pmJeebus, Juan, how could you take that out of context. heh…
December 5th, 2007 at 3:01 pmSorry, posted this question on another thread by mistake.
But when is anyone going to ask : If I totally ignore the NIE, the IAEA has said in public interviews that Iran isn’t making nukes.
Of course, the IAEA was right about Iraq also.
December 5th, 2007 at 3:01 pmIf you won’t impeach now Ms Pelosi, you’re on your way to being as guilty as they. Those who enable high crimes and misdemeanors – including never let us forget, treason – become as culpable as the perpetrators.
Comment by Bush Cover Ups — December 5, 2007 @ 2:50 pm
As I’ve been screaming the moment this story surfaced…
Nancy Pelosi enabled this. She took impeachment off the table. This gave Bush free reign to try to lie us into war again. And why wouldn’t he. The Iraq war has made him and his friends wealthy and more powerful.
Don’t think this is the end. Bush will be back trying to lie us into war with Iran. He got caught this time. But there’s no consequence thanks to Pelosi. So he’ll try again. And keep trying. They won’t stop. They’ll keep at it until someone holds them accountable. And with impeachment off the table that’ll never happen.
December 5th, 2007 at 3:02 pmNancy Pelosi enabled this. She took impeachment off the table. This gave Bush free reign to try to lie us into war again. And why wouldn’t he. The Iraq war has made him and his friends wealthy and more powerful.
Comment by 2MillionLightYearsToAndromeda
I can agree with that. Pelosi is a populist.
December 5th, 2007 at 3:05 pmAnd what in the past history of this White House makes you think they would release that information???
December 5th, 2007 at 3:10 pmbut Rumsfeld and Cheney both SOLD THEM NUCLEAR POWER PLANTS under Nixon/Ford.
Comment by republicans hate facts — December 5, 2007 @ 3:07 pm
I forget, Genius, were they are closest ally in the Muslim world at that time or were they our most vociferous enemy?
Why don’t you go yell “So why don’t you STFU, or EDUCATE YOURSELF before you open that STUPID IGNORANT TRAP OF YOURS? Will you banchara?” in a mirror for an hour?
December 5th, 2007 at 3:10 pm2MillionLightYearsToAndromeda
Don’t think this is the end. Bush will be back trying to lie us into war with Iran. He got caught this time. But there’s no consequence thanks to Pelosi. So he’ll try again. And keep trying. They won’t stop. They’ll keep at it until someone holds them accountable. And with impeachment off the table that’ll never happen.
Thanks- Ive been very happy the last couple of days thanks for taking that away almost immediately with your post
December 5th, 2007 at 3:26 pmMore Examples of Savage Capitalism at the Cost of Human Suffering…in the US.
This is a link to several examples of recent globalism crimes by the US in other nations as well as two recent coporate welfare scams just recently coming to light in the US.
http://willyloman.wordpress.com/2007/12/05/more-recent-examples-of-savage-capitalism-at-the-cost-of-human-suffering-in-the-us/
This what these bastards have done in Iraq, Iran, Chile, Indonesia, China, and here.
Impeach to end globalization.
December 5th, 2007 at 3:29 pmI forget, Genius, were they are closest ally in the Muslim world at that time or were they our most vociferous enemy?
Comment by Keltoi — December 5, 2007 @ 3:10 pm
Which “they” do you mean? If by “they” you mean the despotic Shah we installed in Iran in order to guarantee profits for British Petroleum, then yes, they were our closest ally in the Muslim world. If you mean the Iranian people who had to live under that dictator growing more and more resentful of the U.S., then they really weren’t our closest ally.
December 5th, 2007 at 3:30 pmWhich “they†do you mean? If by “they†you mean the despotic Shah we installed in Iran in order to guarantee profits for British Petroleum, then yes, they were our closest ally in the Muslim world. If you mean the Iranian people who had to live under that dictator growing more and more resentful of the U.S., then they really weren’t our closest ally.
Comment by toasterhead — December 5, 2007 @ 3:30 pm
A fair point. The Persian people have rarely if ever had good government. The implication of RHFs comment was we sold nuclear tech to the Islamic Republic, which is false.
December 5th, 2007 at 3:35 pmBush has been looking like he’s either snapped or is about to for some time now.
Dr. Phil?….
December 5th, 2007 at 3:35 pmA fair point. The Persian people have rarely if ever had good government. The implication of RHFs comment was we sold nuclear tech to the Islamic Republic, which is false.
Comment by Keltoi — December 5, 2007 @ 3:35 pm
Good point. We’d never do something as dangerous as sell nuclear technology to the Islamic Republic of Iran.
It’s a good thing we only sold them antitank and surface-to-air missiles, eh?
December 5th, 2007 at 3:48 pmThey can’t answer this question honestly because what they’ve done is treasonous and they’re aware of that. They are trying to slime themselves out of this noose but no matter how they spin it, it comes down to a case of either incompetence in not asking McConnell what the new intelligence was all about which is impeachable or knowing full well that Iran stopped it’s nuke capability and chose to lie in people’s faces some 60 times. They’re caught between a rock and a hard place on this one and there is no spinning their way out of it.
Bush’s new ratings will be down in the teens following this abysmal news about his level of corruption.
December 5th, 2007 at 3:49 pmzim:He not only looks like he’s snapped, he’s beginning to look like he belongs in a mental ward right now. This is the most unstable we’ve seen this man look since he took office. The longer Bush perpetuates this pissing contest with the people, the closer he comes to having a mental breakdown.
The appropriate thing for this man to do and the only honest thing left for him is to willingly step down right now.
December 5th, 2007 at 3:51 pmIt’s a good thing we only sold them antitank and surface-to-air missiles, eh?
Comment by toasterhead — December 5, 2007 @ 3:48 pm
Are you refering to Iran-Contra, I assume? I don’t think that arms deal is even in the same ballpark as the nuclear issue. But please, let’s not open that can of worms.
I thought of something odd, though. When the Shah was in power, their government was friendly but conventional wisdom held that the populace hated us. Now, the Ayatollahs are in power, the government hates us but all you ever hear about the population is how they are young and
December 5th, 2007 at 3:52 pmpro-Western. Weird, eh?
2million – I agree with you that it’s now up to congressional dems to do what’s right and begin impeachment proceedings. It’s apparent that this new flap – NIE-Gate – will be Bush’s undoing. Any republican candidate who doesn’t immediately distance themselves from this toxic administration will be gone; any democratic candidate who does not admonish bush for what he’s so very obviously done with this new pack of lies doesn’t deserve to even be in the running.
Needless to say, if congress doesn’t immediately take the appropriate action mandated by the constitution and their oath of office, then they all need to be removed as well.
December 5th, 2007 at 3:54 pm2million – I agree with you that it’s now up to congressional dems to do what’s right and begin impeachment proceedings. It’s apparent that this new flap – NIE-Gate – will be Bush’s undoing.
Comment by patooty — December 5, 2007 @ 3:54 pm
It is far from apparent. The calendar hitting January 2009 will be Bush’s undoing. The chances of impeachment remain today where they were last week – zero.
December 5th, 2007 at 3:58 pmJK: For your information, this intelligence gathering has been ongoing to the present moment. The 16 agencies who were involved in compiling the data for this report worked on it for one full year – from 2005 through 2006 when Sy Hersch made it public in one of his pieces. Ergo, Bush & Co knew about it AT LEAST since 2006. Look, if this president thought that Iran was back in the business and has not met with NIE about it and all of the agencies involved, then it’s culpable negligence on his part and he needs to be booted from office.
The fact is that this intelligence gathering has been and is ongoing. Do you think that these agencies which happen to be under Bush (and his responsibility) go to sleep once they compile a report of this nature?
Get a life, troll. You have no idea whatsoever what you are blubbering about and your information is not only bogus GOP talking points but made by a nitwit to boot.
December 5th, 2007 at 3:58 pmKeltoi: You of so little faith in the strength of this democracy? Or is it your personal wet dream involved here?
December 5th, 2007 at 3:59 pmNow, the Ayatollahs are in power, the government hates us but all you ever hear about the population is how they are young and pro-Western. Weird, eh?
Comment by Keltoi — December 5, 2007 @ 3:52 pm
Not really. It just means that a) couples spent lot more time indoors after the revolution, hence all the 20-30-year olds now; and b) people prefer not to live under a repressive regime and after a few decades grow resentful of the people who put the regime in power.
December 5th, 2007 at 3:59 pmBesides, Keltoi-koi-pongscum, the beltway rumormill today has the Dems already beginning to take impeachment action. Then we can laugh you off of these threads.
December 5th, 2007 at 4:02 pm#95 “Come on – give this us” – You first, buffoon.
December 5th, 2007 at 4:03 pmI see that this thread is contaminated by pond scum and drooling trolls. Impeachment is coming and it’s coming fast.
December 5th, 2007 at 4:04 pmHas anyone given this any thought…
According to the new NIE Iran shut down their weapons program in 2003. OK I can buy that. Lets assume that we really did have no clue they shut it down. Lets assume that we knew they had a program in 203 and prior and that we knew it for a fact, but it was not a pressing matter because of Iraq. But when the program shut down we were in the dark and did not know.
Has anyone thought that perhaps the outing of Valerie Plame might have something to do with this? She gets exposed and the Iranians do a damage control study and find out that she and her non-proliferation group know quite a bit about the Iranian program. They get spooked see how easy their program was compromised and shut it down, and go after her network in country. We have no clue they shut it down because our intelligence network in the country suddenly went black. Our administration could not tell the public that we lost our intelligence gathering capabilities within Iran because that would expose the damage done by Plame’s outing. So we have to continue moving along acting as if Iran is in the process of acquiring nukes. we knew where they were in 2003 and assume they are 4 years further down the road, but don’t know because we don’t have the intelligence gathering capabilities.
I think this ibis plausible.
December 5th, 2007 at 4:10 pmThanks- Ive been very happy the last couple of days thanks for taking that away almost immediately with your post
Comment by Bush Cover Ups — December 5, 2007 @ 3:26 pm
Don’t blame the messenger. Blame Pelosi. She enabled this. If she put impeachment back in play this crap would end in a minute. Trust me, cowards like Bush and Cheney would stop lying if they knew they’d end up in jail.
December 5th, 2007 at 4:10 pmDo you actually think Iran has halted its’ nucear program since then??
Comment by John Kerry — December 5, 2007 @ 3:54 pm
16 U.S. intelligence agencies do.
December 5th, 2007 at 4:12 pmAmazing clip here, way to go Chris Matthews!!
Stickin’ it to the Neo-cons on Iran! “Answer the question”
VIDEO
December 5th, 2007 at 4:15 pmhttp://test.redlasso.com/service/svc/clip/playClip?fid=9fcb21ca-effa-40b8-aa36-8856d7b71ea4
Bush is busted and his staff knows it. It won’t be so easy to get out of this one.
December 5th, 2007 at 4:18 pmThere’s only one sure way of finding out why Iran halted their nucular program in 2003, kidnap ImaDinnerJacket and waterboard him…
December 5th, 2007 at 4:24 pmKeltoi: You of so little faith in the strength of this democracy?
Comment by patooty — December 5, 2007 @ 3:59 pm
It is my assessment of the politics of the situation. Kucinich tried it in HR 333 and it is locked away in Waxman’s Judiciary committee. It just isn’t in the cards, no what the rumour mill says.
If this assessment doesn’t match what is apparently YOUR wet dream sorry. Randi Rhodes has explained in detail why impeachment isn’t going to happen – is she a “pond scum and drooling troll”?
December 5th, 2007 at 4:24 pmKeltoi: You of so little faith in the strength of this democracy? Or is it your personal wet dream involved here?
Comment by patooty — December 5, 2007 @ 3:59 pm
What we don’t have faith in, is YOUR and the REST OF YOUR FELLOW REPUBLICAN’S COMMITMENT to DEMOCRACY! Or are you so STUPID that you didn’t get that?
Comment by republicans hate facts — December 5, 2007 @ 4:16 pm
Apparently, you are so stupid you don’t even know who you are responding to. Go back to the mirror, do some more screaming.
December 5th, 2007 at 4:26 pmThe NIE didn’t say they gave up their nuclear program-they gave up their nuclear weapons program (if they had one). They are still enriching uranium and said no one can stop them.
December 5th, 2007 at 4:40 pmNot really. It just means that a) couples spent lot more time indoors after the revolution, hence all the 20-30-year olds now; and b) people prefer not to live under a repressive regime and after a few decades grow resentful of the people who put the regime in power.
Comment by toasterhead — December 5, 2007 @ 3:59 pm
I love your humour in point a! You are a pretty wit, sir.
But under point b.) who do the Iranians now blame for their current oppression? Carter? Or the mullahs themselves?
How a youthful country of 70 million can be ruled by a gerontocracy of theocrats is beyond me.
December 5th, 2007 at 4:48 pmIran could not threaten the United States even if it had Nukes. Other than shipping via air or sea, they have no delivery system capable of reaching our shores. With all of the effective monitoring systems put into place by HLS, that would be a most daunting endeavor. /snark
December 5th, 2007 at 4:51 pmIran has never had a Nuclear weapons program , except the laptop with details on how to build a bomb that was given to them from American spies
We judge with high confidence that the halt (in trying to develop nuclear weapons, not producing them) has lasted at least several years.
We continue to assess with moderate-to-high confidence that Iran does not currently have a nuclear weapon. (Or has ever had one).
—————————
Russia dismisses U.S. claims Iran sought nuke prior to 2003
Russia has no information on Iranian attempts to develop nuclear weapons before 2003, Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said on Wednesday.
http://en.rian.ru/
December 5th, 2007 at 4:52 pmBut under point b.) who do the Iranians now blame for their current oppression? Carter? Or the mullahs themselves?
Gee, I don’t know, maybe the ones that took out MOssadegh?
How a youthful country of 70 million can be ruled by a gerontocracy of theocrats is beyond me.
Comment by Keltoi
Make that 300 million and you got your country.
December 5th, 2007 at 4:52 pmHow a youthful country of 70 million can be ruled by a gerontocracy of theocrats is beyond me.
Comment by Keltoi — December 5, 2007 @ 4:48 pm
Control of police and military doesn’t seem to you as if it was a credible threat?
December 5th, 2007 at 4:52 pmRussia stated that before it will sign another resolution agaist Iran It needs to see what proof the americans had
After countless requests , America has never shown evidence , All the crsppy evidence suggests is a bloody laptop , that was a stich up
December 5th, 2007 at 4:54 pmRUcerious, since when did bush get moved up to the fourth grade, oh I get it, LEAVE NO CHILD BEHIND!
December 5th, 2007 at 4:58 pmMake that 300 million and you got your country.
Comment by Juan C. — December 5, 2007 @ 4:52 pm
Hah! I saw that one coming! Never let it be said I don’t toss you guys a softball now and then!
December 5th, 2007 at 4:59 pm#122 ~ heh… They can only hold you in third grade for three years…
December 5th, 2007 at 5:01 pmControl of police and military doesn’t seem to you as if it was a credible threat?
Comment by gummitch — December 5, 2007 @ 4:52 pm
Oh, the efficacy of a police state is not lost on me, they almost never go away on their own, which was one of the reasons outing Saddam and Sons seemed like not a totally stupid idea.
Iran is weird though because the generational power gap is SO profound…the police and the military HAVE to have support of youthful strong arm types. I suspect the religious brainwashing aspect is a big part of it. And Juan, no double dipping on this last point! ;)
December 5th, 2007 at 5:02 pmThe knowledge to build nuclear weapons comes at two levels: brute force or finesse. The two bombs dropped on Japan relied on brute force and they worked. They merely occupied the entire bomb bay of a B29 with bomb racks removed and yielded about ten to twenty kilotons at a pop. The finesse versions are a fraction of the weight of those monsters and have an adjustable yield into the megaton range. The point is that anyone with a basic knowledge of nuclear physics could build a bomb. The extremes are like the transition from a transistor to a computer on a chip. Both rely on semiconductor technology.
December 5th, 2007 at 5:21 pmAnyone who tried to run their personal life like “conservatives” think we should run our government and its foreign policies would be in prison within a year. Guaranteed.
That is how preposterous, ludicrous, and laughably, tragically, misguided “conservative thinking” is.
“Bartender! Big shoes and red rubber noses for all my Righty buddies!!!!!!!!”
Honk honk, teenfluffer!!
Honk honk, capt. asstragic!!!
Drinks are on me, clowns.
December 5th, 2007 at 5:43 pmDid the President at that point ask any follow-up?
And that, my friends (apologies to J. McCain), is the question of the decade.
And…the obvious answer was, “No, he didn’t ask any follow-up.”
December 5th, 2007 at 6:23 pmIf they aren’t “quickly†developing it, then why are you little ‘tards in such a frenzy to BOMB THEM NOW? ROTFL!!! You’re so stupid I can’t help but LAUGH AT YOU!!!
Comment by republicans hate facts — December 5, 2007 @ 5:39 pm
Don’t you understand??? We are supposed to bomb the shit out of them NOW because they might attack us in 2017.
*snark*
December 5th, 2007 at 6:25 pmSaudi Arabia attacked us in 2001. Where is the return on that one?
December 5th, 2007 at 7:06 pmThis NIE deal is going down very, very, very badly for Dubbie
Even the mainstreamers have the brows all furrowed…
very very very very bad, for Dubbie and the Righties
December 5th, 2007 at 8:12 pm…and they wanted to impeach the imbecil Clinton for not telling the truth about a blowjob with that ugly emplyee… The NIE report is a serious staff, very serious! What is the Rat Pelosi doing???? What are the Democrats doing????? Forget “God Bless America”, from now on you should be saying “God help America… before it is totaly over”!!!!
December 5th, 2007 at 9:02 pmDoes the person incharged of the NIE report has a CIA wife?
December 5th, 2007 at 9:07 pmComment by John Kerry — December 5, 2007 @ 8:55 pm
So this is fantastic news as it shows that our President was right in defeating the evil madman for many reasons but now we know it also ended up convincing the Iranians to stop their nuke program
BwaaaHaaaaHaaaa
What an insane stretch!
BwaaaHaaaaHaaaa
Keep posting this stuff John! I need the laughs.
December 5th, 2007 at 9:47 pmIf you’d read even 70% of the thread, you’d have an answer to that already, JK – do some of the reading before showing up to class shooting your mouth off.
December 6th, 2007 at 2:27 amp.s. – tune in to something other than fox for 15 minutes a day, or read a newspaper or something, dude. anyone who was awake today saw the negative fallout all over the press for the poor lil ol’ liar-cheerleader prince you adore.
December 6th, 2007 at 2:29 amI’ll repeat this for those of you who can’t understand:
what is the reason that Iran halted the program?
This should be a simple answer dude.
Comment by John Kerry — December 6, 2007 @ 8:08 am
Well, according to Bush, it was diplomacy. “Carrots and sticks” as he mentioned at least 3 times during his press conference. Are you suggesting it was the invasion of Iraq? I believe you mentioned earlier that we removed the threat of Iraq attacking Iran (with what, since there were no WMDs); what about Israel? Don’t have time to look it up now, but I have a link to recent news that the administration is afraid they’ll attack Iran.
December 6th, 2007 at 10:13 amComment by John Kerry — December 6, 2007 @ 11:07 am
Funny thing about NIE estimates and what people on each side believe, ain’t it?
You make fun of us libs believing one intelligence assessment and dismissing another, when those on the right do the very same thing. Prior to the Iraq war, the war hawks and neocons who supported Bush were wrapping themselves up in the intelligence that said Iraqis had stockpiles of WMDs and Saddam was going to hit us with a nuke “some day” in the future. Yet with the current NIE on Iran, some of the very same people are running from it as if it were the plague…Bolton and Fred Thompson, to name two.
Why aren’t you asking Bush for an answer? So far, at least on this blog, I haven’t seen anyone disputing Bush’s answer as to why Iran stood down. You think it’s because of the Iraq invasion or the overall “war” on terror? Love him or hate him, we look to the president to inform us of the activities around the world, especially those that affect this country. He is our leader (”leader” in Bush’s case) after all. If the Bush administration truly felt that way, and actually thought they could convince the American people of it, it would be political gold.
Bush has spent every month for the last 5 years continually trying to convince Americans that invading Iraq was the right thing to do. He has given us a minimum of 9 different reasons for invading. Support for the war has gone downhill since the invasion. He has traveled across America and around the world on countless trips, attending conferences, holding meetings, and giving speeches, and has used one press conference after another to drum up support of the war in Iraq. He and his warmonger friends have used images of terrorists in our malls and grocery stores to frighten us into supporting his war. He and others have tried to convince us that Democratic victories in the presidential and congressional elections would be a victory for the terrorists. And the American people ain’t buying it.
But Iran forced to give up its nuclear ambitions because of our show of force in Iraq and/or our commitment to go after terrorists or the supporters of terrorists? Oh, man! It’s vindication handed to Bush on a silver platter!
But there’s just one problem: Bush can’t prove it. Oh, he could throw it out there and see who would take the bait, and maybe get a few more people to support him. But there wasn’t even the slightest hint of this in his press conference…not even a suggestion of diplomacy + the threat of military action.
Why did Iran continue to put on a facade about nukes? Have you dismissed a threat from Israel? Here’s the link to the article I mentioned earlier:
December 6th, 2007 at 4:12 pmLink.
Looks like no one’s interested in your bullshit challenge JK.
December 6th, 2007 at 7:11 pmy’know what?
i really don’t wonder at all, about that
December 6th, 2007 at 9:45 pmTo save me a lot of wasted time I won’t even bother to try and counter your typical left wing talking points that are getting really really old.
Comment by John Kerry — December 6, 2007 @ 4:57 pm
Most of us do not have access to the president; what a moronic statement. That’s why there are press conferences, many of which are televised. That’s why Bush’s speeches around the country and around the world, and his pre-arranged meetings with hand-picked groups, are televised. See, these events are meant to keep us common folk informed. That’s why we trust the president to not lie to us the way Bush has.
Bush said diplomacy was responsible for Iran’s actions; why are you so hell-bent on dismissing him?
What left wing talking points? I can cite everything I stated, and not from what you would call loony sites. Hell, I can start with the White House web site and all day long pull info from press conferences over the past 5 years showing how this administration sold the war to America. You don’t want to take the time to dispute what I have stated because you CAN’T.
The fact stands: no one in this administration, from Bush, to Cheney, to Hadley, to Perino…NO ONE is even hinting that the war on terror, the central front of which is right next door to Iran, had anything to do with Iran standing down. Not even former administration officials are contending this; Bolton smells a conspiracy theory (perhaps he just needs to change his underwear), as does Bush butt kisser and fellow Iraq warmonger Fred Thompson.
Let’s take a historical look at Bush’s public response to Libya’s very public announcement that it was abandoning its WMD program in Dec. 2003, which was just months after our invasion of Iraq:
Source.
So where was this declaration in Bush’s press conference regarding Iran??? Hmmm? What’s that you say? It wasn’t? Why not???
Where was it in Dana’s press conferences?? What? She didn’t mention it? Why not?
As for Israel, no, I was not suggesting that Iran stood down because they were afraid of Israel. It’s a response to your suggestion that Iran stood down due to fear of action by the U.S. I’m simply asking “what about a threat from Israel?”, which even the U.S. apparently feels is a credible threat; did you even bother to access the link I provided?
December 7th, 2007 at 12:27 pm