CIA destroyed tapes of ‘harsh interrogations.’
By on Dec 6th, 2007 at 5:40 pm
CIA destroyed tapes of ‘harsh interrogations.’
In 2005, while “in the midst of congressional and legal scrutiny” over its secret detention program, the CIA “destroyed at least two videotapes documenting the interrogation of two Al Qaeda operatives in the agency’s custody,” the agency admitted today. The videotapes, which contained footage of “severe interrogation techniques,” were “destroyed in part” out of concern that they could “could expose agency officials to greater risk of legal jeopardy.” The decision to destroy the tapes was made “within the C.I.A. itself.”
UPDATE: The AP reports that “House and Senate intelligence committee leaders were informed of the existence of the tapes and the CIA’s intention to destroy them.”
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But, but, herr dubyah told us that this country doesn't torture. If they were not doing anything wrong, there shouldn't been a need to destroy the tape.
December 6th, 2007 at 5:42 pmawe sheet! why would the REALLY destroy it if nothing was wrong with what they were doing? they COULD have blocked out the interrogators faces... jesus, this is supposed to be 2007.
December 6th, 2007 at 5:45 pmCan ANYONE in the DOJ spell O B S T R U C T I O N of justice??
December 6th, 2007 at 5:46 pmWhy doesnt the CIA clean out the dirty rat corrupt executive branch officials in washington, and then
HIDE THAT !!
you know ?
Do something good for a change.....
December 6th, 2007 at 5:47 pmIf only Clinton had that kind of foresight - the dress would've been burned, and lewinsky made a fool of, and we'd have gotten on with the business of being a profitable, peaceful country.
December 6th, 2007 at 5:49 pmThis is absolutely appalling.
December 6th, 2007 at 5:50 pmI keep thinking the B-Team has hit a new low, and then this?
Cover-ups?
Obstructing justice?
These people need to go to jail.
Well, maybe not.
CNN is reporting: "CIA Director Michael Hayden said House and Senate intelligence committee leaders were informed of the existence of the tapes and the CIA's intention to destroy them."
If so, and assuming that there was no objection from the intelligence committees, then there was probably no crime in the destruction. If that's true, it is a black eye on those committees though.
December 6th, 2007 at 5:52 pm"The AP reports that “House and Senate intelligence committee leaders were informed of the existence of the tapes and the CIA’s intention to destroy them.â€
...And they did ...what?
December 6th, 2007 at 5:54 pm“The AP reports that “House and Senate intelligence committee leaders were informed of the existence of the tapes and the CIA’s intention to destroy them.â€
The "AP Reports"....and they know this how? Because the Bush administration told them? How many times has this Administration said that they told the Senate intelligence committee something only for us to find out that it was a lie, that they never told them anything? Is anyone buying Bush's calling wolf any longer? If you are, you have a lot of screws loose in your brain.
December 6th, 2007 at 5:57 pmIn any previous day and age, we would have heard absolutely nothing of the CIA's activities until decades later, if at all.
December 6th, 2007 at 5:59 pmTo have Hayden himself broadcast this little tidbit at present can only be an attempt to (deservedly) smear the lily-livered, weak spined Congressional committee members who said and did nothing at the time.
Just in time for the elections coming within the year.
How nice.
That's a load of codswallop, Frankie.
If our "agents" are torturing people - they need to be FIRED and then prosecuted.
This is nothing more than MORE blatant obstruction of justice.
December 6th, 2007 at 6:03 pmp.s. "Our most valuable assets in the war against terror"....?
BULLSHIT.
December 6th, 2007 at 6:03 pmidentities of our most valuable assets in the war against terror
you mean Valerie Plame?
December 6th, 2007 at 6:05 pmThey knew that there would be a witch-hunt, the tapes would be subpoenaed and the identities of our most valuable assets in the war against terror would be exposed.Comment by Frank M
Hey Francine. Is there anything out there in the world other than "witch hunts" to you? Were the Republiscums on a "witch hunt" when they went after Bill Clinton? Also, I almost spit out my coffee when I read your saying "the identities of our most valuable assets in the war against terror would be exposed" So to you, it's not OK to expose CIA agents who torture people, but it is OK to expose a CIA agent who was a covert operative? Wow, you are one sick puppy.
December 6th, 2007 at 6:05 pmDestruction of Evidence is Obstruction of Justice. These tapes must have been pretty damaging evidence of "war crimes" against the Geneva Conventions on torture which will be launched against Chimp and Veep. Hopefully, someone kept some photos somewhere along the line. You know that they did.
December 6th, 2007 at 6:08 pmThe AP reports that “House and Senate intelligence committee leaders were informed of the existence of the tapes and the CIA’s intention to destroy them.â€
Anyone want to bet that the Democratic members of this committee say that they never heard word one about the tapes. I know that these Democrats are not living up to our expectations, but I really can't see them ignore the fact that the CIA was going to destroy tapes showing that the CIA was torturing prisoners. My bet is either 1) the CIA only informed the Republiscum members of the committee or 2) that the CIA told all members that there were some tapes that needed to be destroyed for some other reason than the real reason for destroying them.
December 6th, 2007 at 6:09 pmBilbobaggins: Francine-ette needs a primer on the actual meaning of the term "witch hunt". She's totally clueless. The term is used when evidence is lacking - not when it's rife with evidence. What a dweeb.
December 6th, 2007 at 6:10 pmThe lying GOP is spinning that those involved in the torture are worried for their lives due to knowledge of their identity. Isn't that part and parcel of being in the military in such a capacity anyway? Lame excuse for destruction of evidence. Won't fly. Someone on the inside still has photos - dollars to donuts - and they will surface much to the chagrin of Bush and his Crime cabal.
December 6th, 2007 at 6:11 pmWe don't need any witch hunts.
December 6th, 2007 at 6:12 pmSharon lives just up the road a piece.
This obstruction of justice will be examined by the international court now. Onto the Hague....
December 6th, 2007 at 6:12 pmAdmitted destruction of evidence to avoid prosecution. Where's Arlen Spectre.
December 6th, 2007 at 6:20 pm13 - was a covert wmd operative outed for those same high, moral reasons??????????????????????
December 6th, 2007 at 6:21 pmObviously, if they knew they were doing legal interrogations, there would have been no reason to destroy evidence and hence to obstruct justice.
Immoral, corrupt bastards.
December 6th, 2007 at 6:22 pmSee we don't torture. There's no evidence whatsoever.
-GSD
It's not a witch hunt, it is a Nazi purge.
December 6th, 2007 at 6:24 pmHow hard is this to understand? There is no sinister motive behind this. They knew that there would be a witch-hunt, the tapes would be subpoenaed and the identities of our most valuable assets in the war against terror would be exposed. Therefore it was better to accept any risk of an obstruction of justice charges than expose the officers.
Comment by Frank M — December 6, 2007 @ 6:00 pm
There's a couple of problems with this scenario. If they were doing as GWB says & not torturing then there would be no witches to hunt. The only way there could/would be an investigation is if the agents were breaking the law. What you're espousing is CIA agents doing whatever the phuck they like and hiding any evidence of it. If that's the case then GWB should be open about it and say that it can't be proven that the U.S. tortures.
Secondly, outing Plame was no big deal for the Bush administration and she was covertly working on Iran/Iraq arming and never broke any laws.. If that was ok then the outing of some CIA agents that are breaking the law can't be a bad thing.
What you're really saying is that in your world, when it comes to the GWB boys anything goes. You'll worry about rules, laws and morals once the Dems take over in 2008.
December 6th, 2007 at 6:24 pmBookmark this link! Contains a great video compilation of Bush's "5 Years of Messes". And he wonders what his legacy will be? Oy!
December 6th, 2007 at 6:31 pmSorry....here 'tis!http://www.homelandsecurityforsale.org/
Homeland Security For Sale!
December 6th, 2007 at 6:31 pmWitchunt is the whitehouse regurgitation of the day. Thanks for swallowing it frank.
December 6th, 2007 at 6:32 pmhttp://www.homelandsecurityforsale.org/
December 6th, 2007 at 6:32 pmI get why the C.I.A would destroy tapes. Covering themselves and stopping a political catosrtophe but why would they come out now? Usually I would congratulate them for a good deed but the CIA always has some alterior motive. But congrats to the Senate Investigations, under Democrats, they're finally worth their paycheck.
December 6th, 2007 at 6:33 pmTB #5 AMEN TO THAT !
December 6th, 2007 at 6:38 pmDestroyed? Oh, I bet Darth C. himself made some copies to enjoy on rainy days and holiday get togethers with Rummy, Yosemite John, W. and the rest of the gang.
December 6th, 2007 at 6:47 pmSmells like Naziism.
Nice work Dick and George.
-GSD
December 6th, 2007 at 6:53 pm37 - seriously - go tell Valerie Plame all about it.
December 6th, 2007 at 6:56 pm38 - more like East Germany's infamous Stasi.
December 6th, 2007 at 6:56 pmthanks for parroting Rush, Frank, but what about the actual facts?
December 6th, 2007 at 6:58 pmWhat are the odds that only the ranking republican members were told of the tapes and still then sworn to secrecy?
#13 Valuable assets like WMD people like say Ms Plame? Please stop making excuses, the tapes were destroyed to void prosecution and that is that. Even though the president has said we did nothing wrong and do nothing wrong the CIA still felt the need to destroy the tapes. How bad were these tapes of us doing nothing wrong? Could they perhaps be tapes of the Iraqi General being torture to death at Abu Grhaib?
December 6th, 2007 at 6:58 pmHow convenient!
December 6th, 2007 at 6:59 pmThe Savak, The Tons Tons Macoutes, The Mukhabarat, The Stasi, The SS.
You name it.
America has become it.
-GSD
Why are people concerned about a 'witch hunt' for activity that is totally legal?
December 6th, 2007 at 7:00 pmHow hard is this to understand? There is no sinister motive behind this. They knew that there would be a witch-hunt, the tapes would be subpoenaed and the identities of our most valuable assets in the war against terror would be exposed. Therefore it was better to accept any risk of an obstruction of justice charges than expose the officers.
Comment by Frank M
You're a complete and utter moron.
December 6th, 2007 at 7:01 pmTaken straight out of the page of the Nixon playbook. Memo to House and Senate committees: Subpoena Porter Goss.
December 6th, 2007 at 7:01 pmi see frank's another righty that doesn't like the taste of righty medicine.
too bad.
December 6th, 2007 at 7:04 pmAmerica is rotting like a fish in the sun.
Morally depraved leaders who publicly claim religious piety while enacting barbaric policies that the founders would loathe.
Dick and George, are sort of a Caligula and Tiberius act.
-GSD
December 6th, 2007 at 7:06 pmI don't buy one word of this. In 2005 there were a number of lawsuits on the issue of CIA interrogation methods so how can he say that there were no legal requirements to keep them. When the CIA told the Congressional leaders they were going to destroy tapes, how was the content described? Were these tape ever used for training purposes? I would like to hear from Jane Harmon and Jay Rockefeller on this. This smells to high heaven.
December 6th, 2007 at 7:06 pmValerie Plame was never covert. Everybody knew she was Agency. Hell, she drove to work at Langley.
Comment by Frank M — December 6, 2007 @ 6:57 pm
Odd. The Director of the CIA is on record that she was covert. But, hell, you know more than he does, right?
And why am I even bothering to mention this? It's just going in one ear and out the other.
December 6th, 2007 at 7:06 pmOk, I am very disturbed by the fact that we even have people that would do such things, just really think about it for a minute....a long minute, this type of horrid subhuman that tortures are in our employ.
We have become a very sick country and need to straighten ourselves out quickly.
Bush/Cheney/CIA Torture Guys
Hague Trials '09
Buck Fush
December 6th, 2007 at 7:09 pmOh and Frank M you are a very sick subhuman too, I hope you get kidnapped by a sicko and tortured, see how you like it then.
December 6th, 2007 at 7:18 pm"the identities of our most valuable assets in the war against terror would be exposed. "
Comment by Frank M — December 6, 2007 @ 6:00 pm
Huh??? WTF??? Our most valuable assets - our best torturers?
Your comment and the mindset it hints at are fatuous beyond owrds.
December 6th, 2007 at 7:33 pmYou can’t lose what you lacked at conception.â€
Comment by Frank M — December 6, 2007 @ 7:15 pm
In your case that would appear to be an IQ and a conscience.
December 6th, 2007 at 7:34 pm43: Of course the tapes were destroyed to void prosecution of the Agency officers. I just said so above.
Comment by Frank M — December 6, 2007 @ 7:01 pm
Are they cowards, are they afraid of the legal system, do they think themselves above the law, or what?
December 6th, 2007 at 7:34 pmIt’s just going in one ear and out the other.
Comment by gummitch — December 6, 2007 @ 7:06 pm
Technically, that's not "an ear" that it's going thru, gummitch.
Bodily orifice yes, but an ear? I don't think so.
December 6th, 2007 at 7:35 pmTo avoid prosecution... geez, it'd appear Frankie is saying they were doing something illegal... damn...
December 6th, 2007 at 7:36 pmWhat's the problem? It's not as if Bush wouldn't pardon them at the drop of a cowboy hat.
December 6th, 2007 at 7:39 pmPlease visit http://www.witnesstorture.org/ and http://www.Cageprisoners.com to see what you can do to help stop these atrocities.
http://www.witnesstorture.org/files/images/jan11_logo_240.jpg
Join Us - January 11 to Shut Down Guantanamo!
Friday, January 11, 2008: The 6 year anniversary of the first prisoners being brought to Guantánamo.
December 6th, 2007 at 7:41 pmIt is also kind of funny that you resort to a variation of the “if you haven’t done anything wrong, you’ve got nothing to fear†argument. Usually you lefties get your panties in a twist, when we use it to make a case for more effective law enforcement in the form of wiretapping laws, for instance.
Comment by Frank M — December 6, 2007 @ 7:01 pm
Now you're not making sense. Now??? Ok, skip that. You're a fool. You compare prosecuting CIA agents who possibly tortured people with fishing for criminals by tapping innocent people's phonelines. On the one hand you have admitted criminals who destroyed evidence. On the other you've got people like you & me making calls and assuming that their rights aren't being violated by their govt. And you have found a way in your twisted mind to equate those two. That's a stretch. I'm always amazed at the lengths Reps will go to to defend their President. You & I both know that if a Dem was President when these tapes of torture were destroyed you'd be all over this yelling "obstruction of justice". Grow a spine. Defend your Constitution.
December 6th, 2007 at 7:42 pmGetting prosecuted does not imply any guilt.
Comment by Frank M — December 6, 2007 @ 7:40 pm
Obstruction of justice is a crime. There is no implication of guilt... it's a crime to destroy evidence to avoid criminal prosecution.
December 6th, 2007 at 7:43 pmFrank M is a sick and twisted subhuman and is the enemy of Amercia.
Frank M
Hague Trials '09
Buck Fush
December 6th, 2007 at 7:48 pmThey were afraid that they’d get prosecuted by dems who do not understand the necessity of enhanced interrogation techniques, and the assets would be exposed to the public (thus being unable to go on with their work).
Comment by Frank M — December 6, 2007 @ 7:40 pm
If it was "enhanced interrogation" rather than torture, they'd have nothing to worry about. If it was torture, it's illegal. Period. And, yes, the "assets" would be exposed, prosecuted, convicted and imprisoned for breaking the law. That's kind of how it's supposed to work in this country: break law, get caught, get punished.
Having a really good excuse is part of the defense.
December 6th, 2007 at 7:48 pmThe alternative would be to risk getting prosecuted for the interrogations themselves and that’s unacceptable.
Comment by Frank M — December 6, 2007 @ 7:47 pm
What is unacceptable is your rationale for criminal behavior. Clearly, you have no respect for the rule of law and you hate this country. You should move to Putin's Russia, where you will fit right in.
December 6th, 2007 at 7:49 pmI'm sure Frank will defend Hillary if laws are broken for good reason while she's President. He's fair & balanced after all.
December 6th, 2007 at 7:51 pmDon't you understand, nein-eleven changed everything. You and I could get blown up at any point. The ragheads could even get a nuke and blow us up, it they don't make us worship the Q'ran first. I can't believe Frank and I are the only ones worried about this.
Right Frank. My buddy.
December 6th, 2007 at 7:59 pmAs I said above, getting prosecuted and sentenced for obstruction of justice is inevitable and actually the best case scenario. That way the assets won’t be exposed. Someone’s going to take the fall and will get rewarded for it.
The alternative would be to risk getting prosecuted for the interrogations themselves and that’s unacceptable.
Comment by Frank M — December 6, 2007 @ 7:47 pm
The BEST part about it all is knowing that they will BURN IN HELL along with MURDERER Bush the COXUCKER punk TRAITOR to the USA.
And that REAL Christians and INNOCENT Iraqis will be in heaven with God listening to these WAR CRIMINALS tormented by their
MASTER Satan for ETERNITY.
God WILL punish the MURDERERS and TORTURERS.
And all of Bush's money won't save his SOUL...
Thank you, God and Jesus!
Sincerely,
NRA Gun Nutes
December 6th, 2007 at 8:01 pmBecause of nein-levin, we have to change the way we view the Constipation. We must elect imbecile's. We have do things differently as this is a different threat. The President needs to be able to break the law, do what he needs to do to keep us safe. The terrorists deserve to be tortured anyway.
Right Frank. My buddy.
December 6th, 2007 at 8:08 pmThere's one scenario that's been overlooked. Since the beginning, we've been told that these interrogations have been very productive, and they've even stopped a terrorist attack or two. What if the taped interrogations really show prisoners just babbling anything that comes to mind, and not revealing anything of importance? That would be a prime reason to keep the tapes secret; they show the inefficacy of the interrogation process, and how little real intelligence was gained.
December 6th, 2007 at 8:11 pmSince I have a better chance of getting struck by lightning, than being a victim of a terrorist attack, want to know what my government is doing to protect me from lightning.
December 6th, 2007 at 8:12 pmRemind us, who are the war criminals?
December 6th, 2007 at 8:17 pmValerie Plame was never covert. Everybody knew she was Agency. Hell, she drove to work at Langley.
Comment by Frank M
So, you are calling CIA Director Michael Hayden a liar?
On March 16, 2007, Plame testified before the committee. Henry Waxman read a prepared statement that was cleared by CIA director Michael Hayden. It read in part:
"During her employment at the CIA, Ms. Wilson was undercover. Her employment status with the CIA was classified information, prohibited from disclosure under Executive Order 12958. At the time of the publication of Robert Novak's column on July 14, 2003, Ms. Wilson's CIA employment status was covert. This was classified information. Ms. Wilson served in senior management positions at the CIA in which she oversaw the work for other CIA employees and she attained the level of GS-14 — Step Six under the federal pay scale. Ms. Wilson worked on some of the most sensitive and highly secretive matters handled by the CIA. Ms. Wilson served at various times overseas for the CIA."
December 6th, 2007 at 8:41 pmFrancine...oh Francine....where have you gone? Did you run away because you were proven wrong? Poor baby. Go back under your bed and hide.
December 6th, 2007 at 8:57 pmoh my freakin god - here comes the "disgruntled former employee sour graper" attack that they use on every single one (and that's adding up to a lot of'em) who break ranks and come clean about the depth of the corruption
Bartlebee - if you would please, do the honors - I'm fatigued from thumping dolts all day.
December 6th, 2007 at 9:17 pmWAR CRIMINALS! I HOPE THEY GIVE AMERICAN PRISIONERS THE SAME TREATMENT (MADE IN AMERICA). THE US DESERVES IT!
December 6th, 2007 at 9:18 pmI thought that we didn't torture. What's the problem with the tapes then?
December 6th, 2007 at 9:20 pmHayden is playing a political game here. He has issues with the Bush administration and nothing he says can be taken at face value.
Comment by Frank M — December 6, 2007 @ 9:10 pm
The Bush administration hasn't ever told the truth about anything. Somebody needs to shoot you, Frank, before you do any more damage to my country.
December 6th, 2007 at 9:28 pm#37 - Frank - for your education!
Pagan Religion - "any of various religions other than Christianity or Judaism or Islamism" Dictionary.com
December 6th, 2007 at 11:14 pmHow hard is this to understand? There is no sinister motive behind this. They knew that there would be a witch-hunt, the tapes would be subpoenaed and the identities of our most valuable assets in the war against terror would be exposed. Therefore it was better to accept any risk of an obstruction of justice charges than expose the officers.
Comment by Frank M — December 6, 2007 @ 6:00 pm
That is complete, and utter bullsh!t. Hogwash! (to quote a man; Who was that, again?). The CIA can easily keep these tapes, and still preserve the identities of the individuals on the tapes. Such information can be blocked, identities redacted, etc. To say that this risked exposing their identities to the world conveys a serious misunderstanding of just how overall compartmentalized, and carefully guarded U.S. intelligence assets are. It is only when people with access publicly leak the identities of CIA agents, and similar assets, that things start to go bad. Anyone within the CIA that would leak this to the public, would do so WITH a redacted tape, the identities concealed. Only a traitorous FOOL would leak the actual name and physical identity of an asset.
When the appropriate courts, when the appropriate committees, and when the appropriate legal representation of the CIA and the United States government have legitimate access to these items, the case can proceed without any risk to individual assets. A jury would be able to see such tapes without any identities being exposed either.
In other words, you are a disingenuous @sshole. Stop spreading your sh!t all over everything. For shame. Now clean up after yourself.
December 6th, 2007 at 11:19 pmAll I gotta say is.....
Al Capone would be proud of these guys.
None of these hoodlums are gonna go to Prison.
They're gonna gt away with the Crimes.
December 7th, 2007 at 12:52 amHow can a religion that worships the same God as Judaism and Christianity be called "pagan"?
"It is also kind of funny that you resort to a variation of the 'if you haven’t done anything wrong, you’ve got nothing to fear' argument. Usually you lefties get your panties in a twist, when we use it to make a case for more effective law enforcement in the form of wiretapping laws, for instance."
Well, you have nothing to fear in a court of law, or in front of a Congressional committee, if you haven't done anything wrong. "Innocent until proven guilty", you know.
Yes, you run the risk of being judged and declared guilty in the court of public opinion, but no one, at least to my knowledge, has ever gone to prison just because Nancy Grace said they should.
"Hayden is playing a political game here. He has issues with the Bush administration and nothing he says can be taken at face value."
Burning tapes, how very Nixonian.
December 7th, 2007 at 1:15 am.
Vwat torture?
Vee don't torture.
Der is no proof ef der torture any moore.
Out ef der sight, out ef der mind, NO?
.
December 7th, 2007 at 1:32 am.
Frank M.
Plame WAS covert. Not only did she testify to this fact, others in her agency testified to the same fact. Why didn't anyone testify she was NOT covert?
Yes Frank, if you have nothing to hide... you teams logic, then why hide it by destroying the evidence. This is your teams logic turned back on your team. And all you can do is suggest that the agents involved needed their identity protected? If they were doing nothing wrong, what is there to protect, after all, outing a CIA agent who is covert is acceptable to you but not the identities of CIA agents who are not, but who were following orders to commit war crimes?
BTW Frank, it is the Constitution that provides me the tools for my protection, not some masked terrorist... er... CIA agent engaged in coercive means so as to influence political change.
Frank,
When did torture become legal?
When did warrantless become legal?
When did fraud become legal?
Frank,
What are your principles and how do they comport to the intentions, principles and causes OF our Founders? By your teams most recent definition, this Nation's Founders WERE terrorists, WERE insurgents, WERE the enemy...
... Just keeping it real.
December 7th, 2007 at 1:54 am#79
No. I’ve been posting on Raw Story.
Hayden is playing a political game here. He has issues with the Bush administration and nothing he says can be taken at face value.
Comment by Frank M — December 6, 2007 @ 9:10 pm
So he LIED to Waxmen?
December 7th, 2007 at 1:58 amComment by O. Bigfoot — December 7, 2007 @ 2:40 am
You are not, simply, a moron. You are insane.
Following the Geneva Conventions, and human decency, is not for the benefit of those we take prisoner. It's for the benefit of Americans who are taken prisoner. Once we cross the line we lose any bargaining power.
While humane treatment of prisoners doesn't guarantee anything; if we lower our standards we might as well issue cyanide capsules to our soldiers.
December 7th, 2007 at 3:44 amNononono, these are all LIES! Haven't you heard Rush Limbaugh whine about the personal vendetta within the CIA against president Bush? That's what Rush learned from Plamegate. So, if Rush is at all correct, the CIA should be LEAKING the videos to the drive-by media in order to DISCREDIT the Bush administration some more, definitely not destroying the evidence.....
December 7th, 2007 at 5:15 amI hope some tapes of torture are preserved, so history will never forget what the neocons did.
December 7th, 2007 at 6:26 am#37 - "Ok, so you want to expose people who actually fight the war the way it needs to be fought?" Comment by Frank M — December 6, 2007 @ 6:53 pm
You mean expose people who act like they're wearing brown-shirts and shitting upon the ideals on which this country was formed?
It's people who immediately turn to torture, and then subsequently run and hide from the light of the public, that are the antithesis of American values. Torture is nothing but the actions of fascists and results in nothing but lies to make the torture stop.
I am glad people like you are in the extreme minority of this country. The majority of Americans are rightly disgusted that torture was conducted in the name of the US.
When pelople of your lack-of-values blurs the line between torture and interrogation, you turn the US into another Soviet-like country that will torture people and blame it on "the times" rather than stand up for what you believe.
December 7th, 2007 at 7:55 am#94 - "Information concerning interrogation methods used by the U.S. does not need to be discovered by our enemies..." Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 7, 2007 @ 2:23 am
It should also never be discovered by the American citizens. It would expose the US "interrogation" for the Soviet-like practice it truly is: torture.
Torture never reveals accurate information. It only results in the first lie believed to make the torture stop, and nothing more.
December 7th, 2007 at 7:58 amThese tapes still exist somewhere, I'm sure. Possibly in Cheney's man-sized safe next to his collection of snuff films and kiddie porn.
December 7th, 2007 at 8:02 amHas anyone noticed the interesting timing of this - a startling leak of information about CIA practices at a time when the neocons are trying to discredit the agency because the Iran NIE didn't say what they wanted?
December 7th, 2007 at 8:26 am#104 - "the United States does not torture, but uses very precise and extensive psychological interrogation tactics, the U.S. has gleaned imporant intel from our enemies which has indeed saved American lives. Period." Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 7, 2007 @ 8:37 am
Wow, you really swig to kool-aide without any thought to why you believe the lies, don't you?
There is not one single instance in which toirture techniques have gleaned any viable information. Not. One.
If there was one single instance, it would be shouted from the mountain tops that torture works.
Torture doesn't work. Period.
Those that falsly claim that "torture works" are only advancing an ultra-extreme agenda to undermine everything that the US has stood for, and have besmirched the sacrifices of the US military and our fallen heroes. PERIOD.
December 7th, 2007 at 9:01 amComment by O. Bigfoot — December 7, 2007 @ 8:33 am
Leave it to BigO to miss the point.
I'm very well aware of the intent of the Geneva Conventions and who is, supposedly, protected. I also don't think (my personal opinion) that those who fall outside their scope should be mistreated.
My point is that a reputation for mistreatment, of those we take prisoner, increases the chance that Americans will be mistreated. This doesn't apply solely to the current conflicts or any particular region. In a world where too many people live by some variation of "an eye for an eye" I would just as soon take the moral high ground, and take my chances, should I fall into the hands of a hostile power.
Until such time as you achieve your wet dream of nuking all who dare oppose the neocons; American captives, military and civilian, will be a reality. The best thing we can do for them is to treat those we hold prisoner humanely.
Please feel free to miss the point, again. I find it amusing.
December 7th, 2007 at 9:16 amHowever, since the United States does not torture, but uses very precise and extensive psychological interrogation tactics, the U.S. has gleaned imporant intel from our enemies which has indeed saved American lives. Period.
I wouldn’t have it any other way.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 7, 2007 @ 8:37 am
All lies. bigfoot would be the very last person to know what methods are used and if they work, as he is an admitted coward and chickenhawk, as well as a hate-filled traitor with no regard for the troops, Constituion or USA. bigfoot represents all lies, all the time. torture doesn't work, and the USA tortures. If it worked, the war would ahve been over long ago, but because of our leasders' disgusting savagery and desregard of the law, the wars carry on, and we lose. every post out of bigfoot's ass is a cowardly lie, and every "fact" he cites is an untruth, with no research ever shown to back it up. Tha fact that the military experts and doctors worldwide denounce torture as a sure way to get the wrong answers never slows down his hatred and fear, and the idea that the poorly-trained and badly-led soldiers of the USA would know the difference between precise psychological tactics and torture is a joke, as proven conclusively by the Abu Ghraib embarrassment. Traitos like bigfoot can reliably be ignored and laughed at as psychologically diminished and stoked by fear.
December 7th, 2007 at 9:18 am#47 I am just readvising you of your own republican party notion that if you have done nothing wrong and have ntohign to hide, then there is no point in hiding. What you are apprently saying is that even if you are entirely innocent you can get intoa legal mess. Which by extension should apply to nearly every person in the administrations hands, shouldn't it?
December 7th, 2007 at 9:22 am#109 - "Never? And how do you know this? Torture has been used for centuries. Torture does work! That’s why why they do it." Comment by Southern Man — December 7, 2007 @ 9:24 am
And your proof for this (patently false) assertion would be. . . . .???
Torture doesn't work. If it did, we'd be hearing stories left and right about how lives have been saved and terrorists plots stopped. Any news of this happening? Nope. Not one.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A2302-2005Jan11.html
http://www.amnestyusa.org/page.do?id=1031036
http://media.www.clarksonintegrator.com/media/storage/paper280/news/2006/09/25/Opinion/Letter.To.The.Editor-2304515.shtml
http://www.humanrightsfirst.org/blog/torture/2007/10/wall-street-journal-gets-it-wrong-on.html
December 7th, 2007 at 9:35 amFrank and others of his ilk, like Podhoretz (sp?) are one huge apologist Captain Queeg for president Bush. Bush apologists love to accuse everyone of being disloyal and out to get Bush whenever things do not go Bush's way. As long as they toe the Bush line they are ok, but if they once, just once utter anything that is not in line with the dear leaders preconceived thoughts then they are suddenly unreliable and disloyal. Captain Queeg only had himself to accuse the others of being disloyal, "Old Yellow Paint Bush" has a whole network ready to pounce. Hayden says something not in the party line? Well this traitor has issues... You people are f'ing nuts..
December 7th, 2007 at 9:42 amThe AP reports that “House and Senate intelligence committee leaders were informed of the existence of the tapes and the CIA’s intention to destroy them.â€
Translation: the Republicans (formerly in the leadership) will give us cover. "Sure, they told us about it. I guess our silence was construed as acquiescence. Too bad, so sad, bye bye."
December 7th, 2007 at 10:06 amThe CIA destroys tapes to cover their tracks and Bigfoot gets on a soapbox over a poster.
Priorities man. Where are your priorities?
December 7th, 2007 at 10:18 amSouthern Man,
December 7th, 2007 at 10:19 amLook at the interrogations of Khalid Sheikh Mohammad. The result of torture? Forget prosecuting the Daniel Pearl case. They tortured a false confession out of him, it was later shown to be false, and now any chance to prosecute the people who actually did the crime are over.
Moreover, if you would simply look to the Army's interrogation manuals you will see the the U.S. Army believes that torture doesn't work.
Finally, to call yourself "Southern Man" is a bit of a stretch. "Southern Ignorant Child" might be a better label. You are pathetically lacking in information and your label is an insult to all the good and honorable people from the U.S. south.
To question authority is one of the most patriotic thing we can do. This is a democracy and we all need to question the powers that be. I will be as watchful of the next administration as I have been on this one, as well as the ghosts of administration's past.
Bigfoot, you tend to ignore the message and get mad at the messanger. You tend to be too forgiving for this administration and blind to their actions that are unamerican.
December 7th, 2007 at 10:33 amSouthern "Man",
December 7th, 2007 at 10:47 amIt is fascinating that you want to believe the B-Team.
Why in the world would you want to do that?
When has the B-Team ever been credible?
From WMD in Iraq, to the many and evolving [ironic, since the B-Team doesn't believe in evolution] justifications for the Iraq invasion, to the stories about Pat Tillman, to Iran and nukes.
When has the B-Team ever told the truth on any issue of importance?
Let's just hope that the B-Team doesn't start talking about the Easter Bunny. Southern "Man" would thenl stay up all night waiting for a hopping little candy distributor to arrive.
CLASSIFIED is good when it is used PROPERLY to protect the nation.
When CLASSIFIED is used to protect CRIMINAL ACTS, such as Pat Tillman's "friendly fire" and Jack Abramoff's dealings with TRAITOR Bush
citing "executive privilege" or "CLASSIFIED", then it is NOT being used to PROTECT THE NATION, but to cover up the CRIMES of TRAITORS.
Like George W. Bush and Dick Cheney.
Luckily, God will send these MURDEROUS WAR CRIMINALS to be with their MASTER Satan.
No "CLASSIFIED" needed for this one on where their
SOULS belong...
Sincerely,
NRA Gun Nutes
December 7th, 2007 at 10:48 amMeanwhile, the rest of us, who are considered traditional Americans, live out our lives happy and free of the hobbles others place upon themselves.
It is unfortunate that LP allows his/her attitude to color his/her entire life. It must make for some unbearable lonliness, as no one wants a “killjoy†in their midst.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 7, 2007 @ 10:01 am
It is unfortunate that you aren't dead. Your support for treason and lawlessness weakens my country, which was founded as a liberal democracy, not a fascist theocratic empire-building mass-murdering terror state. Your loneliness is your own problem; obviously, you have no friends, or you wouldn't spend time here, where real Americans constantly put you down for your weakness, lack or courage, and antiAmerican views. You are a useless burr, no more.
December 7th, 2007 at 10:50 amO (is that a name or an IQ?)
December 7th, 2007 at 10:51 amTreason?
By comments in a blog?
You don't have a clue.
No wonder you vote for the B-Team.
CLASSIFIED is good when it is used PROPERLY to protect the nation.
When CLASSIFIED is used to protect CRIMINAL ACTS, such as Pat Tillman’s “friendly fire†and Jack Abramoff’s dealings with TRAITOR Bush
citing “executive privilege†or “CLASSIFIEDâ€, then it is NOT being used to PROTECT THE NATION, but to cover up the CRIMES of TRAITORS.
Like George W. Bush and Dick Cheney.
Luckily, God will send these MURDEROUS WAR CRIMINALS to be with their MASTER Satan.
No “CLASSIFIED†needed for this one on where their
SOULS belong…
Sincerely,
NRA Gun Nutes
December 7th, 2007 at 10:56 amand yet your blatant hatred for the law of the land and the ideals America was founded on is all you have. you have no love for America, only fear and ignorant bigotry. You haven't the courage for "direct confrontation" or you would be fighting the "enemy" you so conveniently hide from. you're all hot air and treasonous lies. i tell the truth: oiur leadership is antiAmerican in the extreme, and traitors. They deserve death by hangong, after fair trials to show the world that American is not represented by savage pigs such as these. Your hatred for your own country is your right in a free country, but Bush's actions are treasonous, and his trial and conviction cannot come too soon. Your fevered imaginings that the CIA destroyed those tapes out of fear that the enemy would find out our methods is just insane. Those tapes were destroyed to prevent the law from punishing those who have broken the law. If torture is an acceptable method to nitwit neandertals like you and Southern Pansy, then our foes know all about those methods. it's the usual Republican coverup of their inhuman crimes, and will bring about the total destruction of the republican prty, if they don't lose America first.
Funny how the two of you are alone here in your treason.
December 7th, 2007 at 10:56 amd we have to have another episode next week. Got It?†Skeeter- “But why did they…..?â€
Comment by Southern Man — December 7, 2007 @ 10:53 am
You seem to be the Dukes Of hazard expert, Southern fairy. Found out again, are you? Well, it's no surprise, hyou've proven your provincial stupidity time and again, but keep going, there might be somebody new on board that hasn't poked you in the eye and laughed at your ignorance.
December 7th, 2007 at 10:58 amSouthern "Man", #123 wrote:
"Finally, to call yourself “Southern Man†is a bit of a stretch. “Southern Ignorant Child†might be a better label. You are pathetically lacking in information and your label is an insult to all the good and honorable people from the U.S. south.
Comment by Skeeter1 — December 7, 2007 @ 10:19 am
Hey Skeeter, go fix The General Lee. You are probably one those people who watch “The Dukes of Hazard†and has to have it explained to them at the end. “Well Skeeter, the Duke boy’s got into some trouble and had to run from the police. They jumped a bridge and got away. They went to a bar and saw their Cousin Daisy. They didn’t go to jail because they are on TV and we have to have another episode next week. Got It?†Skeeter- “But why did they…..?â€"
What?
December 7th, 2007 at 10:59 amI think we need an intervention here.
Looks like Southern "Man" has hit the sauce a bit early today. I don't what the heck that post was about.
As for LP, I’m not upset in the least. However, I will not allow the blatant hatred for our own nation and it’s leaders that is displayed on this website to go unchallenged. Disagree politically all you want, that’s fine by me. But words that so obviously go over the line to be considered treasonous should not be allowed to simply “slide by†without direct confrontation.
Actually, our "leaders" are the TREASONOUS ones who have TRAMPLED the US Constitution.
THEY are the ones who HATE the USA, and THEY are the TRAITORS.
The people who challenge such TRAITORS as Bush and Cheney
are PATRIOTS.
Scum like YOU who support TRAITORS Bush and Cheney are the TRAITORS who HATE America.
And God.
And Jesus.
Sincerely,
NRA Gun Nutes
December 7th, 2007 at 11:00 amThere are many things we will never hear about. CLASSIFIED
Comment by Southern Man — December 7, 2007 @ 10:39 am
How convenient, the most secretive admalistration in history classifies everything, including material that has already been published. And a cosksucking moron like you laps it all up. They depend on your ignorance to destroy this democracy, Southern cocksucker. You are the enemy of freedom.
December 7th, 2007 at 11:00 amand yet your blatant hatred for the law of the land and the ideals America was founded on is all you have. you have no love for America, only fear and ignorant bigotry. You haven’t the courage for “direct confrontation†or you would be fighting the “enemy†you so conveniently hide from. you’re all hot air and treasonous lies. i tell the truth: oiur leadership is antiAmerican in the extreme, and traitors. They deserve death by hangong, after fair trials to show the world that American is not represented by savage pigs such as these. Your hatred for your own country is your right in a free country, but Bush’s actions are treasonous, and his trial and conviction cannot come too soon. Your fevered imaginings that the CIA destroyed those tapes out of fear that the enemy would find out our methods is just insane. Those tapes were destroyed to prevent the law from punishing those who have broken the law. If torture is an acceptable method to nitwit neandertals like you and Southern Pansy, then our foes know all about those methods. it’s the usual Republican coverup of their inhuman crimes, and will bring about the total destruction of the republican prty, if they don’t lose America first.
Funny how the two of you are alone here in your treason.
Comment by Lefty Patriot — December 7, 2007 @ 10:56 am
Amen. Absolutely CORRECT.
Sincerely,
NRA Gun Nutes
December 7th, 2007 at 11:03 amOur govt, consistently over classifies documents and information as "Secret" and "Top Secret" with a whole layer of special identifiers.
December 7th, 2007 at 11:06 amIs it your opinion Lefty that nothing should be CLASSIFIED? Should everything that our goverment does be an open book for all to read? Do you wish the Abu Grhab story hadn’t been leaked? Or are you glad it did, so it can embarass all the good soldiers as well as the bad, and give ther president another black eye?
Comment by Southern Man — December 7, 2007 @ 11:03 am
I don't hate the law, like you and your Republican asslickers. Torture should not be classified, as it is illegal. If it wasn't torture, then there is no reason to destroy the tapes. Only the guilty have to hide and lie. Your typical bullshit generalization is just another of your foolish deflections; much of what Bush has classified was already published. How do you explain that? Why was an energy meeting between the VP and the big oil producers held in secret? To screw you and me, that's why. Classified? Why did the sdministration commit and countenance treason in the exp[osure of valerie Plame, who's identity was classified? Don;t give me that smarmy bullshit about how i want nothing classified; i don't have the same pissy-pants fear as you. We are governed by criminals in the Executive branch, they should be tortured using the same methods you claim aren't torture, let's see what the result is.
December 7th, 2007 at 11:10 amIt was about you Skeeter1.
Comment by Southern Man — December 7, 2007 @ 11:07 am
No, it was about your education through the Dukes of hazard, which you seem very familiar with.
December 7th, 2007 at 11:11 amSouthern "Man":
You wrote: "Do you wish the Abu Grhab story hadn’t been leaked? Or are you glad it did, so it can embarass all the good soldiers"
How does Abu Ghraib tar good soldiers?
That is the problem with people like you. When you see one U.S. soldier engaged in an unlawful and frankly anti-American act, you blame all U.S. soldiers for those acts.
I sure don't. I blame those soldiers and their commanders.
Southern "Man", why do you hate American soldiers? Why do you consider all them to be criminals based on the actions of a few?
December 7th, 2007 at 11:13 amIs it your opinion Lefty that nothing should be CLASSIFIED? Should everything that our goverment does be an open book for all to read? Do you wish the Abu Grhab story hadn’t been leaked? Or are you glad it did, so it can embarass all the good soldiers as well as the bad, and give ther president another black eye?
Information that ACTUALLY PROTECTS the USA should be classified.
Information that shows CRIMINAL ACTS of the soldiers at Abu Ghraib (the ones that committed the acts, not ALL of them) and TRAITORS
like George W. Bush and Dick Cheney should be shown for what it is: the ACTS OF WAR CRIMINALS.
TRAITOR Bush should BE in Abu Ghraib for his WAR CRIMES.
BLACK EYE?
His new MASTER Satan will SMASH HIS FACE every second
FOR ETERNITY.
WHAM! SPLAT!
WHAM! SPLAT!
WHAM! SPLAT!
WHAM! SPLAT!
WHAM! SPLAT!
WHAM! SPLAT!
WHAM! SPLAT!
WHAM! SPLAT!
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Sincerely,
NRA Gun Nutes
December 7th, 2007 at 11:15 amPersonally, from reading your posts, it appears you could very well be the next school or mall shooter. I hope someone around you is able to identify and stop you before something tragic happens.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 7, 2007 @ 11:11 am
well, we all know that it won't be a coward like you, who will give up his freedom for a perception of safety, even in the wake of the most massive national security failure in history, 9/11, under the watchful eye of george The deserter-In-Chief Bush, whose historical legacy will always be that failure, and all of the other failures he has presided over, including the failure to follow the laws and ideals that America won WW2 following. You are not my political opponent; you are a traitor. There is a difference. I am an American patriot, questioning the failure of my obviously sick government and their obviously fanatical supporters, a small minority of extremists who would destroy the Constitution in order to fatten their wallets. That's you, bigfoot, a supporter of terrorist extremeists who stole the government away from its citizens. You don;t have the right to hurt anybody in your quest for empire, either, so don;t give me that crap. You ahve identified no options for anyone except your choices of willful ignorance, blind loyalty, and bedwetting fear. Those are not the options a real Aemrican chooses; you have proven your hatred for Aemrican ideals hundreds of times. Your very unwillingness to fight for your ideals in Iraq is all the proof needed of your hypocrisy and cowardice. But keep on showing the world how weak and deluded you and your leaders are; it's your right, for the time being. it won't be long, however, before your heroes change that for you, and you'll be wondering where America went.
December 7th, 2007 at 11:20 amI have no problem in the least with that. Better safe than sorry.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 7, 2007 @ 11:19 am
No bigfoot, what you really mean is better safe than free, the battle cry of the bedwetting coward.
December 7th, 2007 at 11:20 amSouthern “Manâ€, why do you hate American soldiers? Why do you consider all them to be criminals based on the actions of a few?
Comment by Skeeter1 — December 7, 2007 @ 11:13 am
Southern Traitor never has a logical answer for his cherry-picking and falsities. None of these rightwing morons ever has an answer, just more deflections from the subject at hand.
December 7th, 2007 at 11:22 am#117 - "Do you know what classified means?" Comment by Southern Man — December 7, 2007 @ 10:39 am
You mean like the CLASSIFIED non-official cover of Ms. Plame that the current Administration had no problem with divulging, even though it set back by years the clandestine search for nuclear programs in the Middle East?
When I was in he Army, I had a Top Secret (SCI-SBI) clearance. Even though what I knew is no longer relevant, I don't talk about certain aspects of my job at the Pentagon.
If there was ANY real evidence that torture worked, Pres. Bush would be stumbling and bumbling all over himself in an attempt to explain it.
Torture doesn't work. There is no evidence that it's worked. It doesn't matter how much you twist logic to support the un-supportable.
December 7th, 2007 at 11:24 amStop rooting against Bush and root for your country.
Comment by Southern Man — December 7, 2007 @ 11:28 am
I, like most of America, believe that President Bush means well for the United States and is doing his best to keep our nation safe from our enemies based within the confines of his personal beliefs.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 7, 2007 @ 11:36 am
So there we are, two self-hating, ignorant, blind fools who refuse to see the damage Bush has done to this country, damage we may never recover from. Most of America hates Bush, with good reason, bigfoot; your self-aggrandizing lies aren't convincing anyone. Southern Pansy, you're another liar, with nothing to back up your claims. None of your friends have come here, or they would leave some evidence. if you had any friends, you wouldn't be spending so much time on a blog where everybody considers you a vile traitor and a bush cocksucker. so, the two of you are exosed by your own weaknesses, lack of loyalty to the USA, and gullibility. Your lack of understanding of America is what has created the anger towards you and your treasonous leaders; we were all pretty good with the idea of political give-and-take, compromise, and punishment for crimes. Your fascists have destroyed all of that, and the fact that you can be happy in a country castrated by the rich and amoral oilmen that now hold sway is just further proof of your irrelevance, and your harmful influence. I wish you were dead because that is what any patriot wants of those that attack and damage his country, as you two are doing every day. This is not political squabbling; you are calling for the destruction of Constitutional rights, and the destruction of the American state as it has been for over two hundred years. When Muslims do it, you want them dead. There is very little difference between you and the Islamists that hate America; and your continued refusal to actually get off your fat, lazy asses and go fight them is proof.
Rooting against Bush IS rooting for my country. he has done far more damage than any foreign enemy has managed. And y8ou ahve helped him. That makes you an enemy of America, both of you.
December 7th, 2007 at 11:47 am"our President knows"
Come on.
December 7th, 2007 at 11:49 amGet serious.
What has the B-Team ever been shown to "know"?
The last six years have been a parade of intelligence screw ups.
When has the B-Team ever been correct?
The Iraq debacle makes Viet Nam look as well planned as the Normandy invasion.
Careful there. Your emotional instability is showing, and it makes legitimate “progressives†look bad.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 7, 2007 @ 11:23 am
Sorry, I don't take advice from aszlickers of
MURDERER Bush the COXUCKER punk TRAITOR to the USA.
Like YOU.
Join Bush with your MASTER Satan when the time comes. You and he can't LIE to the Almighty God, who SEES the EVIL of Bush and YOU.
Sincerely,
NRA Gun Nutes
December 7th, 2007 at 12:01 pmBut I don’t mind. I find it to be very similar in approach to the “Hate Hannity Hotlineâ€, where angry libs can vent on us and then perhaps treat those around them a little better after catharsis.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 7, 2007 @ 11:52 am
you don't get to define the progressive movement, bigfoot. you would like it to consist of panty-waisted cowards and liars like you and SM, who happily ignore the crimes of your leadership, who regret the truth of Abu Ghraib because it shows what animals you follow, who celebrate the destruction of a valuable CIA asset beause her husband embarrassed a group of liars misleading the US into an unnecessary and dangerous war. Over 5 years later, and all you have to show for it is that only 40 American troops a week are dying. This is how you measure success? it shows a real hatred for troops and America. But that is your only consistency; your lies and pandering to a weak, stupid, ineffectual president and his puppetmasters, many of whom are running away as fasgt as they ran away from the Viet Nam war, and the draft, and any responsibility. Your leadership is amoral, greedy, vindictive and treasonous, those are the facts that you have to live with. You also have to live with the fact that you represent a small minority of fear-filled, America-hating extremists, while the rest of us have seen clearly what a fool Bush is, and how poorly Republicans can govern or defend the USA. 9/11 is yours to wear, for the rest of your useless lives. Torture, destruction of evidence, theft of billions of taxpayer dollars, cronyism and domestic imcompetence are merely subchapters in the book of Bush, but generations from now, he will be even more reviled than he is now. He will be in the same chapter as Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin and Idi Amin, and he is all yours. Congratulations.
December 7th, 2007 at 12:05 pmI have had the same experience, Southern Man. Folks get online, look at the nutcases spouting their hatred and vitriol, and unfortunately the genuine “progressive†thought gets buried in all the nonsense and is, unfortunately, either lost or ignored.
and you both lie shamelessly and transparently. as if you had friends. What a joke.
December 7th, 2007 at 12:06 pmRooting against Bush IS rooting for my country. he has done far more damage than any foreign enemy has managed. And y8ou ahve helped him. That makes you an enemy of America, both of you.
Absolutely correct.
As for the right-wing nutjobs "getting a headache" from THIS site, how about RedState, Little Green Goobers, etc??
The HATRED and VITRIOL is unbelievable.
And unlike here, where you can pretty much post what you want, the PSYOPS who post here, who have a "differing viewpoint",
would be BANNED from such sites, as soon as they posted something contrary.
Look at the way they pile on to ANYONE who disagrees with TRAITOR Bush, even claiming that the NIE was an "Iranian Plot".
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
God SEES the EVIL that Bush, Cheney and their azslickers do.
Beware your IMMORTAL SOULS, WAR CRIMINALS!
Sincerely,
NRA Gun Nutes
December 7th, 2007 at 12:13 pmI’m sure there is room in the “progressive†movement for religious nuts, though it does bring up some very interesting points.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 7, 2007 @ 12:11 pm
Actually, the "religious nuts" are pretty much with the WAR CRIMINALS and Rapeublicans.
I am just a Christian, who respects the religions (or atheism) of ALL of my fellow man.
Unlike the rightwing NUTJOBS like Pat Robertson, Fred Phelps, etc.
And although I can't say that GW Bush is NOT a Christian, I can say that his LIES and MURDER show that he does NOT follow the
WORDS of God and Jesus Christ.
And again, if I posted things contrary to RedState, Little Green Green Greaseballs, I would be instantly BANNED for LIFE.
At least YOU have freedom of speech on THIS site. I do NOT have the same on the right-wng NUTJOB sites.
Sincerely,
NRA Gun Nutes
December 7th, 2007 at 12:20 pm#145 SM so is rooting for Bush rooting for your country and rooting against Bush rooting against your country? Wow. For you people In the 1990's rooting against the president was considered rooting for your country.
I also find it interesting the the right wingers think it is Bush's job to protect the people. That could not be further from the truth. His oath of office was to protect and defend the constitution. As president one of his duties is commander in chief of the armed forces. This duty was not given to the president by our founders so he could direct the military to go hither and yon acting out the military fantasies of elitist think tanks. No the duty was given so that the military knew they were to be subject to civilian oversight.
Under this administration there has been no oversight they have treated the military as simply being one more piece of the executive branch to be used to achieve political goals, be those goals instilling a sense of nationalism by using the military as a focal uniting point (See Germany circa 1940) or to use the military to achieve longstanding ambitions (see Germany circa 1940, and the PNAC circa 1998). I'm sure the more gifted writers here could spell this out better but to my understanding of the constitution (I've read it, I've read the federalist, I've read many many court cases, I've taken several law classes in college etc... so my knowledge is not Supreme court level, but it is much higher than sh!t house lawyer knowledge) the president is failing lock stock and barrel at defending it. Thus that makes him un-American and a traitor, and by extension anyone who supports his every last move is also the same.
December 7th, 2007 at 12:42 pmI t is impossible to influence sadists like our resident trolls. They are damaged beyond hope.
December 7th, 2007 at 2:09 pm158 - I'd say "juvenile" before "damaged". They're like children.
December 7th, 2007 at 3:33 pm