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	<title>Comments on: Haaretz: Israelis knew of Iran NIE before Bush?</title>
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		<title>By: bryantim21</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2007/12/06/haaretz-israelis-knew-of-iran-nie-before-bush/comment-page-2/#comment-4181379</link>
		<dc:creator>bryantim21</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Dec 2007 17:27:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/12/06/haaretz-israelis-knew-of-iran-nie-before-bush/#comment-4181379</guid>
		<description>Who were the Commissars under Stalin who murdered by some estimates 40 million  people (Russians, Poles, Ukranians)

http://www.zundelsite.org/english/jews-under-stalin/index.html


Who started WWII Against Germany

http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/articles/jdecwar.html


Who dragged us into ANOTHER war in the Middle East:

â€œWhy would Iraq attack America or use nuclear weapons against us? I&#039;ll tell you what I think the real threat (is) and actually has been since 1990 â€“ it&#039;s the threat against Israel,â€â€¦â€And this is the threat that dare not speak its name, because the Europeans don&#039;t care deeply about that threat, I will tell you frankly. And the American government doesn&#039;t want to lean too hard on it rhetorically, because it is not a popular sell,â€ 
 - Phillip Zelikow â€“ Presidentâ€™s Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board (PFIAB), 2001 â€“ 2003

â€œA stronger Israel is very much imbedded in the rationale for war with Iraq.  The destruction of Saddamâ€™s Iraq will not only remove an enemy of long standing, but will also change the basic power equation in the region.â€ - Joe Klein Time Magazine, Feb 5, 2003

&quot;American Jews are responsible for pushing the country to war with Iraq&quot;â€¦&quot;If it were not for the strong support of the Jewish community for this war with Iraq, we would not be doing this,&quot; â€“ 
Congressman James P. Moran Jr., Virginia

â€œThose who favor this attack {against Iraq} now will tell you candidly, and privately, that it is probably true that Saddam Hussein is no threat to the United-States.  But they are afraid at some point he might decide if he had a nuclear weapon to use it against Israel.â€  - General Wesley Kanne Clark, August 2002

â€œThe war in Iraq was conceived by 25 neoconservative intellectuals, most of them Jewish, who are pushing President Bush to change the course of historyâ€ â€“ Ari Shavit, April 5, 2003 Haaretz News Service-Israel

â€œWith Iraq no threat, why invade a sovereign country?  The answer:  President Bushâ€™s policy to secure Israel.â€  â€œMy own answer is that the lie {that a massively-armed Iraq posed a grave and imminent threat to the U.S.} was fabricated by the neo-conservatives in the administration whose first loyalty is to Israel and its interests and who wanted the United-States to smash Iraq because it was the biggest potential threat to Israel in the region.  They are known to have been pushing for the war with Iraq since at least 1996, but they could not make an effective case for it until after Sept 11, 2001â€ -Senator Ernest F. Hollings, U.S. Senator South Carolina-May 2004

â€œFor whose benefit these endless wars in a region that holds nothing vital to America save oil, which the Arabs must sell us to survive?  Who would benefit from a war of civilizations between the West and Islam?  Answer:  one nation, one leader, one party.  Israel, Sharon, Likud.â€ Patrick Buchanan, March 2004

â€œWhat has been happening over the years is a predictable routine of foreign visitation from the head of the Israeli government.   The Israeli puppeteer travels to Washington.  The Israeli puppeteer meets with the puppet in the White House, and then moves down Pennsylvania Avenue, and meets with the puppets in Congress.  And then takes back billions of taxpayer dollars.  It is time for the Washington puppet show to be replaced by the Washington peace show.â€ â€“ Ralph Nader, consumer advocate, author and Presidential candidate,  July 2004

â€œFor Bureaucratic reasons we settled on one issue, weapons of mass destruction, because it was one reason everyone could agree onâ€¦â€œIâ€™m not concerned about weapons of mass destruction.â€ - Dept Sec of Defense Paul Wolfowitz

â€œMy son joined the Army to protect America, not Israelâ€ â€“ Cindy Sheehan, mother of Spc. Casey Sheehan, 24, killed in Baghdad on April 4, 2004

&quot;I think it&#039;s the worst kept secret in Washington. That everybody - everybody I talk to in Washington has known and fully knows what their agenda was and what they were trying to do.  &quot;And one article, because I mentioned the neo-conservatives who describe themselves as neo-conservatives, I was called anti-Semitic. I mean, you know, unbelievable that that&#039;s the kind of personal attacks that are run when you criticize a strategy and those who propose it. - Anthony Zinni, Retired General US Marine Corps, (CENTCOM)

&quot;Israel controls the United States Senate. We should be more concerned about the United States&#039; interests.&quot; - William Fulbright - US Senator and Chairman of the US Foreign Relations committee

The Jews rule the world by proxy.  They get others to fight and die for them.â€ - Mahathir Mohammed, Prime Minister of Malaysia, October 2003
   
&quot;Is there any criminal act that Israel can do without being protected from criticism from the United States? If there is I haven&#039;t seen it. And I haven&#039;t seen it from the Bush Administration or from the Clinton Administration or from any administration before them. But when you consider the influence of Israel&#039;s lobby and its political action committees and the more than $41 million they&#039;ve given to Congress and the White House, is it any wonder Israel is shielded from any shame?  For more than 54 years the Israelis have committed acts that no other nation would dare get away with. But even here in America, where it is not yet illegal to publicly ask the wrong questions, any public figure that does so is subjected to smears, intimidation, and the attempted destruction of his career and reputation by Jewish organizations and by the very cooperative news media.&quot; - U.S. Brigadier General James J. David (Ret.), in an article entitled &quot;A Passionate Attachment to Israel&quot;

&quot;I&#039;ve never seen a President -- I don&#039;t care who he is -- stand up to them [the Israelis]. It just boggles the mind. They always get what they want. The Israelis know what is going on all the time. If the American people understood what a grip those people have got on our government, they would rise up in arms. Our citizens certainly don&#039;t have any idea what goes on.&quot; - Admiral Thomas Moorer, Chairman US Joint Chiefs, Reagan Adm

â€œDon&#039;t worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it.&quot;â€“ Former Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, October 8th, 2001</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Who were the Commissars under Stalin who murdered by some estimates 40 million  people (Russians, Poles, Ukranians)</p>
<p><a href="http://www.zundelsite.org/english/jews-under-stalin/index.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.zundelsite.org/english/jews-under-stalin/index.html</a></p>
<p>Who started WWII Against Germany</p>
<p><a href="http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/articles/jdecwar.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/articles/jdecwar.html</a></p>
<p>Who dragged us into ANOTHER war in the Middle East:</p>
<p>â€œWhy would Iraq attack America or use nuclear weapons against us? I&#8217;ll tell you what I think the real threat (is) and actually has been since 1990 â€“ it&#8217;s the threat against Israel,â€â€¦â€And this is the threat that dare not speak its name, because the Europeans don&#8217;t care deeply about that threat, I will tell you frankly. And the American government doesn&#8217;t want to lean too hard on it rhetorically, because it is not a popular sell,â€<br />
 &#8211; Phillip Zelikow â€“ Presidentâ€™s Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board (PFIAB), 2001 â€“ 2003</p>
<p>â€œA stronger Israel is very much imbedded in the rationale for war with Iraq.  The destruction of Saddamâ€™s Iraq will not only remove an enemy of long standing, but will also change the basic power equation in the region.â€ &#8211; Joe Klein Time Magazine, Feb 5, 2003</p>
<p>&#8220;American Jews are responsible for pushing the country to war with Iraq&#8221;â€¦&#8221;If it were not for the strong support of the Jewish community for this war with Iraq, we would not be doing this,&#8221; â€“<br />
Congressman James P. Moran Jr., Virginia</p>
<p>â€œThose who favor this attack {against Iraq} now will tell you candidly, and privately, that it is probably true that Saddam Hussein is no threat to the United-States.  But they are afraid at some point he might decide if he had a nuclear weapon to use it against Israel.â€  &#8211; General Wesley Kanne Clark, August 2002</p>
<p>â€œThe war in Iraq was conceived by 25 neoconservative intellectuals, most of them Jewish, who are pushing President Bush to change the course of historyâ€ â€“ Ari Shavit, April 5, 2003 Haaretz News Service-Israel</p>
<p>â€œWith Iraq no threat, why invade a sovereign country?  The answer:  President Bushâ€™s policy to secure Israel.â€  â€œMy own answer is that the lie {that a massively-armed Iraq posed a grave and imminent threat to the U.S.} was fabricated by the neo-conservatives in the administration whose first loyalty is to Israel and its interests and who wanted the United-States to smash Iraq because it was the biggest potential threat to Israel in the region.  They are known to have been pushing for the war with Iraq since at least 1996, but they could not make an effective case for it until after Sept 11, 2001â€ -Senator Ernest F. Hollings, U.S. Senator South Carolina-May 2004</p>
<p>â€œFor whose benefit these endless wars in a region that holds nothing vital to America save oil, which the Arabs must sell us to survive?  Who would benefit from a war of civilizations between the West and Islam?  Answer:  one nation, one leader, one party.  Israel, Sharon, Likud.â€ Patrick Buchanan, March 2004</p>
<p>â€œWhat has been happening over the years is a predictable routine of foreign visitation from the head of the Israeli government.   The Israeli puppeteer travels to Washington.  The Israeli puppeteer meets with the puppet in the White House, and then moves down Pennsylvania Avenue, and meets with the puppets in Congress.  And then takes back billions of taxpayer dollars.  It is time for the Washington puppet show to be replaced by the Washington peace show.â€ â€“ Ralph Nader, consumer advocate, author and Presidential candidate,  July 2004</p>
<p>â€œFor Bureaucratic reasons we settled on one issue, weapons of mass destruction, because it was one reason everyone could agree onâ€¦â€œIâ€™m not concerned about weapons of mass destruction.â€ &#8211; Dept Sec of Defense Paul Wolfowitz</p>
<p>â€œMy son joined the Army to protect America, not Israelâ€ â€“ Cindy Sheehan, mother of Spc. Casey Sheehan, 24, killed in Baghdad on April 4, 2004</p>
<p>&#8220;I think it&#8217;s the worst kept secret in Washington. That everybody &#8211; everybody I talk to in Washington has known and fully knows what their agenda was and what they were trying to do.  &#8220;And one article, because I mentioned the neo-conservatives who describe themselves as neo-conservatives, I was called anti-Semitic. I mean, you know, unbelievable that that&#8217;s the kind of personal attacks that are run when you criticize a strategy and those who propose it. &#8211; Anthony Zinni, Retired General US Marine Corps, (CENTCOM)</p>
<p>&#8220;Israel controls the United States Senate. We should be more concerned about the United States&#8217; interests.&#8221; &#8211; William Fulbright &#8211; US Senator and Chairman of the US Foreign Relations committee</p>
<p>The Jews rule the world by proxy.  They get others to fight and die for them.â€ &#8211; Mahathir Mohammed, Prime Minister of Malaysia, October 2003</p>
<p>&#8220;Is there any criminal act that Israel can do without being protected from criticism from the United States? If there is I haven&#8217;t seen it. And I haven&#8217;t seen it from the Bush Administration or from the Clinton Administration or from any administration before them. But when you consider the influence of Israel&#8217;s lobby and its political action committees and the more than $41 million they&#8217;ve given to Congress and the White House, is it any wonder Israel is shielded from any shame?  For more than 54 years the Israelis have committed acts that no other nation would dare get away with. But even here in America, where it is not yet illegal to publicly ask the wrong questions, any public figure that does so is subjected to smears, intimidation, and the attempted destruction of his career and reputation by Jewish organizations and by the very cooperative news media.&#8221; &#8211; U.S. Brigadier General James J. David (Ret.), in an article entitled &#8220;A Passionate Attachment to Israel&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;I&#8217;ve never seen a President &#8212; I don&#8217;t care who he is &#8212; stand up to them [the Israelis]. It just boggles the mind. They always get what they want. The Israelis know what is going on all the time. If the American people understood what a grip those people have got on our government, they would rise up in arms. Our citizens certainly don&#8217;t have any idea what goes on.&#8221; &#8211; Admiral Thomas Moorer, Chairman US Joint Chiefs, Reagan Adm</p>
<p>â€œDon&#8217;t worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it.&#8221;â€“ Former Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, October 8th, 2001<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=4181379', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: defendwesterncivilization</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2007/12/06/haaretz-israelis-knew-of-iran-nie-before-bush/comment-page-2/#comment-4181072</link>
		<dc:creator>defendwesterncivilization</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Dec 2007 14:02:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/12/06/haaretz-israelis-knew-of-iran-nie-before-bush/#comment-4181072</guid>
		<description>If the left think Israel will bow to the kkk un and allow the leaders of iran to finish hitlers mission  of killing every Jew then your sadly mistaken. International Law only applies to countries defending Western Free Civilization and seem never to apply to Socialist/radical sharia law islam. The bottom line is that you leftest will never defeat Israel or Western Civilization and you might as well get Used to it.
The US will defend and aid Israel keep Nazi Sharia from enslaving the world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the left think Israel will bow to the kkk un and allow the leaders of iran to finish hitlers mission  of killing every Jew then your sadly mistaken. International Law only applies to countries defending Western Free Civilization and seem never to apply to Socialist/radical sharia law islam. The bottom line is that you leftest will never defeat Israel or Western Civilization and you might as well get Used to it.<br />
The US will defend and aid Israel keep Nazi Sharia from enslaving the world.<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=4181072', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: bernarda</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2007/12/06/haaretz-israelis-knew-of-iran-nie-before-bush/comment-page-2/#comment-4181052</link>
		<dc:creator>bernarda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Dec 2007 12:28:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/12/06/haaretz-israelis-knew-of-iran-nie-before-bush/#comment-4181052</guid>
		<description>War criminal Shaul Mofaz is himself an Iranian. He must have a lot of resentment of his country of origin.

The Mossad is the Israeli Gestapo, and the original was rather effective at many things. I guess the Mossad aspires to that level.

BTW, did you notice that the television series NCIS spreads Israeli/Mossad propaganda? One of the &quot;heros&quot; is a Mossad assassin who for some reason is integrated into the team. Of course it is no question that she might be an Israeli spy and terrorist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>War criminal Shaul Mofaz is himself an Iranian. He must have a lot of resentment of his country of origin.</p>
<p>The Mossad is the Israeli Gestapo, and the original was rather effective at many things. I guess the Mossad aspires to that level.</p>
<p>BTW, did you notice that the television series NCIS spreads Israeli/Mossad propaganda? One of the &#8220;heros&#8221; is a Mossad assassin who for some reason is integrated into the team. Of course it is no question that she might be an Israeli spy and terrorist.<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=4181052', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: locust</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2007/12/06/haaretz-israelis-knew-of-iran-nie-before-bush/comment-page-2/#comment-4180679</link>
		<dc:creator>locust</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2007 23:56:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/12/06/haaretz-israelis-knew-of-iran-nie-before-bush/#comment-4180679</guid>
		<description>C&#039;mon, Bigfoot, where&#039;s your outrage?

If what Col. Gardner said is true then the US invaded Iran and is killing Iranians without any threat from Iran against the US and without any declaration of war.

Or are the US and Israel special and above the law in your view?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>C&#8217;mon, Bigfoot, where&#8217;s your outrage?</p>
<p>If what Col. Gardner said is true then the US invaded Iran and is killing Iranians without any threat from Iran against the US and without any declaration of war.</p>
<p>Or are the US and Israel special and above the law in your view?<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=4180679', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: locust</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2007/12/06/haaretz-israelis-knew-of-iran-nie-before-bush/comment-page-2/#comment-4180655</link>
		<dc:creator>locust</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2007 23:40:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/12/06/haaretz-israelis-knew-of-iran-nie-before-bush/#comment-4180655</guid>
		<description>retired AF Col. Gardner said in April &quot;In fact, weâ€™ve probably been executing military operations inside Iran for at least 18 months. The evidence is overwhelming.&quot;

So we&#039;re killing Iranians without any declaration. 

Hey Bigfoot, nuke the US, if int&#039;l law means anything to you. Not!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>retired AF Col. Gardner said in April &#8220;In fact, weâ€™ve probably been executing military operations inside Iran for at least 18 months. The evidence is overwhelming.&#8221;</p>
<p>So we&#8217;re killing Iranians without any declaration. </p>
<p>Hey Bigfoot, nuke the US, if int&#8217;l law means anything to you. Not!<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=4180655', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: bryantim21</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2007/12/06/haaretz-israelis-knew-of-iran-nie-before-bush/comment-page-2/#comment-4180276</link>
		<dc:creator>bryantim21</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2007 21:03:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/12/06/haaretz-israelis-knew-of-iran-nie-before-bush/#comment-4180276</guid>
		<description>Sure the knew about it before Bush.  The Mosaad tape records all the Presidents phone calls.  How do you think they blackmail the White House and the Congress?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sure the knew about it before Bush.  The Mosaad tape records all the Presidents phone calls.  How do you think they blackmail the White House and the Congress?<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=4180276', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: theswan</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2007/12/06/haaretz-israelis-knew-of-iran-nie-before-bush/comment-page-2/#comment-4180157</link>
		<dc:creator>theswan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2007 20:16:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/12/06/haaretz-israelis-knew-of-iran-nie-before-bush/#comment-4180157</guid>
		<description>It obvious the Israeli had prior information.  gwb is second hand.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It obvious the Israeli had prior information.  gwb is second hand.<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=4180157', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: MapleStreet</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2007/12/06/haaretz-israelis-knew-of-iran-nie-before-bush/comment-page-2/#comment-4180085</link>
		<dc:creator>MapleStreet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2007 19:49:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/12/06/haaretz-israelis-knew-of-iran-nie-before-bush/#comment-4180085</guid>
		<description>Does anyone believe that with implications as big as the NIE, that no one briefed anyone prior to the official publication date ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does anyone believe that with implications as big as the NIE, that no one briefed anyone prior to the official publication date ?<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=4180085', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: PollM</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2007/12/06/haaretz-israelis-knew-of-iran-nie-before-bush/comment-page-2/#comment-4180061</link>
		<dc:creator>PollM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2007 19:41:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/12/06/haaretz-israelis-knew-of-iran-nie-before-bush/#comment-4180061</guid>
		<description>Do you believe Israel gained this knowledge by spying on the U.S.?

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.youpolls.com/details.asp?pid=1236&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.youpolls.com/details.asp?pid=1236&lt;/a&gt;

.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do you believe Israel gained this knowledge by spying on the U.S.?</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youpolls.com/details.asp?pid=1236" rel="nofollow">http://www.youpolls.com/details.asp?pid=1236</a></p>
<p>.<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=4180061', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: Bush Cover Ups</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2007/12/06/haaretz-israelis-knew-of-iran-nie-before-bush/comment-page-2/#comment-4180050</link>
		<dc:creator>Bush Cover Ups</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2007 19:37:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/12/06/haaretz-israelis-knew-of-iran-nie-before-bush/#comment-4180050</guid>
		<description>This was by RScully

Mossad failed to find out anything meaningful about Iraqi WMD, though they surely generated some false signals to help the vice-president build his case for war.

Despite vast effort, Mossad has failed to find a single thread that leads verifiably from all these dead Lebanese Christian politicians to Damascus. Mossad has consistently underestimated Hezbollah&#039;s strength and it failed to provide the IAF with any useful targeting information in the recent war. 

Mossad&#039;s interventions in Lebanon have all backfired - as indeed have the IDF&#039;s. Just as their interventions in the Occupied Territories have all backfired. How many Americans know that it was Mossad who gave vital early backing to Hamas, thinking they would be a useful counterweight to the PLO? Hamas is to Mossad what Bin Laden is to the CIA. 

The Americans are vastly better placed than the Israelis to gather intelligence about Iran. They are the masters of signals intelligence, often the only way into a secretive state like Iran. They have a large Iranian-American population to use for translation, infiltration, picking up rumours from relatives in the old country etc. Iranian defectors go to the US to share their information...can you imagine an Iranian defector going to the Mossad?

And the Americans know almost nothing.

Mossad is nothing special, it&#039;s more gung-ho than other agencies, but don&#039;t confuse that with cleverness. And the IDF is no longer anything special either. It&#039;s been slowly rotting for 20 years. The occupation has broken its spirit. Soldiers were openly insulting their officers after the Lebanon debacle - I saw it. Everyone knows that occupying civilians eventually wrecks armies.

Israel is a third-rate conventional power with a lot of nuclear weapons and a large foreign fan club, nothing more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This was by RScully</p>
<p>Mossad failed to find out anything meaningful about Iraqi WMD, though they surely generated some false signals to help the vice-president build his case for war.</p>
<p>Despite vast effort, Mossad has failed to find a single thread that leads verifiably from all these dead Lebanese Christian politicians to Damascus. Mossad has consistently underestimated Hezbollah&#8217;s strength and it failed to provide the IAF with any useful targeting information in the recent war. </p>
<p>Mossad&#8217;s interventions in Lebanon have all backfired &#8211; as indeed have the IDF&#8217;s. Just as their interventions in the Occupied Territories have all backfired. How many Americans know that it was Mossad who gave vital early backing to Hamas, thinking they would be a useful counterweight to the PLO? Hamas is to Mossad what Bin Laden is to the CIA. </p>
<p>The Americans are vastly better placed than the Israelis to gather intelligence about Iran. They are the masters of signals intelligence, often the only way into a secretive state like Iran. They have a large Iranian-American population to use for translation, infiltration, picking up rumours from relatives in the old country etc. Iranian defectors go to the US to share their information&#8230;can you imagine an Iranian defector going to the Mossad?</p>
<p>And the Americans know almost nothing.</p>
<p>Mossad is nothing special, it&#8217;s more gung-ho than other agencies, but don&#8217;t confuse that with cleverness. And the IDF is no longer anything special either. It&#8217;s been slowly rotting for 20 years. The occupation has broken its spirit. Soldiers were openly insulting their officers after the Lebanon debacle &#8211; I saw it. Everyone knows that occupying civilians eventually wrecks armies.</p>
<p>Israel is a third-rate conventional power with a lot of nuclear weapons and a large foreign fan club, nothing more.<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=4180050', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: Bush Cover Ups</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2007/12/06/haaretz-israelis-knew-of-iran-nie-before-bush/comment-page-2/#comment-4180037</link>
		<dc:creator>Bush Cover Ups</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2007 19:30:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/12/06/haaretz-israelis-knew-of-iran-nie-before-bush/#comment-4180037</guid>
		<description>More and more Americans are catching on to who was it that benefits from the Iraq invasion. More and more Americans are catching on to who is agitating for war with Iran. AIPAC has its work cut out.

Israel&#039;s Amen Corner in the US is coming under scrutiny, big time. The Pentagon/Intelligence NIE is a start, but more is to come.

Already, the neocon candidates-Giuliani, Clinton, the pathetic shill, McCain, are coming under intense scrutiny for their war pimping, with Giuliani getting special attention for his Podhoretz pander.

Good times.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>More and more Americans are catching on to who was it that benefits from the Iraq invasion. More and more Americans are catching on to who is agitating for war with Iran. AIPAC has its work cut out.</p>
<p>Israel&#8217;s Amen Corner in the US is coming under scrutiny, big time. The Pentagon/Intelligence NIE is a start, but more is to come.</p>
<p>Already, the neocon candidates-Giuliani, Clinton, the pathetic shill, McCain, are coming under intense scrutiny for their war pimping, with Giuliani getting special attention for his Podhoretz pander.</p>
<p>Good times.<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=4180037', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: Bush Cover Ups</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2007/12/06/haaretz-israelis-knew-of-iran-nie-before-bush/comment-page-2/#comment-4180033</link>
		<dc:creator>Bush Cover Ups</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2007 19:28:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/12/06/haaretz-israelis-knew-of-iran-nie-before-bush/#comment-4180033</guid>
		<description>message to isreal

What are you going to do when there are more Palestinians than Israelis under Israeli control, and they demand equal rights? When the US public gets tired of sending eighteen-year olds to die for Israel? Tired of sending 3 billion a year in aid? Tired of listening to all the crap about existential threats when we all know the name of the game is geopolitical and economic dominance?

When your last allies in the whole entire world are Bush (somewhere around 25% approval in his own country), Cheney (10%), and the Christian end-of-the-worlders (in desperate need of psychological treatment), you know you&#039;re doomed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>message to isreal</p>
<p>What are you going to do when there are more Palestinians than Israelis under Israeli control, and they demand equal rights? When the US public gets tired of sending eighteen-year olds to die for Israel? Tired of sending 3 billion a year in aid? Tired of listening to all the crap about existential threats when we all know the name of the game is geopolitical and economic dominance?</p>
<p>When your last allies in the whole entire world are Bush (somewhere around 25% approval in his own country), Cheney (10%), and the Christian end-of-the-worlders (in desperate need of psychological treatment), you know you&#8217;re doomed.<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=4180033', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: Bush Cover Ups</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2007/12/06/haaretz-israelis-knew-of-iran-nie-before-bush/comment-page-2/#comment-4180009</link>
		<dc:creator>Bush Cover Ups</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2007 19:14:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/12/06/haaretz-israelis-knew-of-iran-nie-before-bush/#comment-4180009</guid>
		<description>O. Bigfoot must be a republican hes far too stupid to be a massad agent</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>O. Bigfoot must be a republican hes far too stupid to be a massad agent<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=4180009', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: RUCerious</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2007/12/06/haaretz-israelis-knew-of-iran-nie-before-bush/comment-page-2/#comment-4179980</link>
		<dc:creator>RUCerious</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2007 19:03:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/12/06/haaretz-israelis-knew-of-iran-nie-before-bush/#comment-4179980</guid>
		<description>We know where they are,
Comment by O. Bigfoot

For real?

Comment by Juan C. â€” December 6, 2007 @ 1:50 pm

Somewhat north, east and south of Tikrit, right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We know where they are,<br />
Comment by O. Bigfoot</p>
<p>For real?</p>
<p>Comment by Juan C. â€” December 6, 2007 @ 1:50 pm</p>
<p>Somewhat north, east and south of Tikrit, right?<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=4179980', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: RUCerious</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2007/12/06/haaretz-israelis-knew-of-iran-nie-before-bush/comment-page-2/#comment-4179974</link>
		<dc:creator>RUCerious</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2007 19:03:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/12/06/haaretz-israelis-knew-of-iran-nie-before-bush/#comment-4179974</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;Anyhoo, Iâ€™d like to stay and play with you all some more, but I gotta go make some money and get some checks in the bank. Donâ€™t worry though, Iâ€™ll be back!
Comment by O. Bigfoot â€” December 6, 2007 @ 1:41 pm&lt;/em&gt;

His Hos worked OT last night and he needs to see his pusher...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Anyhoo, Iâ€™d like to stay and play with you all some more, but I gotta go make some money and get some checks in the bank. Donâ€™t worry though, Iâ€™ll be back!<br />
Comment by O. Bigfoot â€” December 6, 2007 @ 1:41 pm</em></p>
<p>His Hos worked OT last night and he needs to see his pusher&#8230;<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=4179974', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: creasybear</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2007/12/06/haaretz-israelis-knew-of-iran-nie-before-bush/comment-page-2/#comment-4179972</link>
		<dc:creator>creasybear</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2007 19:02:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/12/06/haaretz-israelis-knew-of-iran-nie-before-bush/#comment-4179972</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;The Israelis didnâ€™t know about the NIE before Bush did.
No, Bush is just a lying sack of crap.
Comment by Leftside Anni

Funny how little we know about Israel. About their activities. About what they REALLY and SINCERELY think about us. We are in Iraq becos they wanted it. And how many candles have they lighted for our dead soldiers???
They collect the tax from us. Share the tax. Get the lion cut. They break the law, and never get to go to Jail. Is it the treason committed by AIPAC? The nukes Israel got today are illegally obtained. Stolen military secrets by Jewish members of the Nixon govt. Big treason, and alot of the members involved are today hawks, medal winners, big tycoons, national darlings. 
America long feel into the control of Israel. We are nothing but a big factory, body barracks, and slave mine to them. It is only Israeli that involved in what is called white slavery. White women from europe, and the US are lured down there, and they are never allowed to leave. They are masters, and others are never to be!
We are resources to them. And people like Cheney, H&#039;lary and Bush and members of the congress will continue to be their puppets.
Please, H&#039;lary should never under any condition be voted in. Shes the most corrupted among the entire hopefuls! The most black-amable by the Israelis.&lt;/strong&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>The Israelis didnâ€™t know about the NIE before Bush did.<br />
No, Bush is just a lying sack of crap.<br />
Comment by Leftside Anni</p>
<p>Funny how little we know about Israel. About their activities. About what they REALLY and SINCERELY think about us. We are in Iraq becos they wanted it. And how many candles have they lighted for our dead soldiers???<br />
They collect the tax from us. Share the tax. Get the lion cut. They break the law, and never get to go to Jail. Is it the treason committed by AIPAC? The nukes Israel got today are illegally obtained. Stolen military secrets by Jewish members of the Nixon govt. Big treason, and alot of the members involved are today hawks, medal winners, big tycoons, national darlings.<br />
America long feel into the control of Israel. We are nothing but a big factory, body barracks, and slave mine to them. It is only Israeli that involved in what is called white slavery. White women from europe, and the US are lured down there, and they are never allowed to leave. They are masters, and others are never to be!<br />
We are resources to them. And people like Cheney, H&#8217;lary and Bush and members of the congress will continue to be their puppets.<br />
Please, H&#8217;lary should never under any condition be voted in. Shes the most corrupted among the entire hopefuls! The most black-amable by the Israelis.</strong><a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=4179972', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: toasterhead</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2007/12/06/haaretz-israelis-knew-of-iran-nie-before-bush/comment-page-2/#comment-4179944</link>
		<dc:creator>toasterhead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2007 18:54:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/12/06/haaretz-israelis-knew-of-iran-nie-before-bush/#comment-4179944</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;For real?

Comment by Juan C. â€” December 6, 2007 @ 1:50 pm&lt;/i&gt;

We do know where Iran is, actually, and are pretty sure how to get there.  You go to Pakistan and take a left.  If you hit a quagmire you&#039;ve gone too far.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>For real?</p>
<p>Comment by Juan C. â€” December 6, 2007 @ 1:50 pm</i></p>
<p>We do know where Iran is, actually, and are pretty sure how to get there.  You go to Pakistan and take a left.  If you hit a quagmire you&#8217;ve gone too far.<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=4179944', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: Juan C.</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2007/12/06/haaretz-israelis-knew-of-iran-nie-before-bush/comment-page-2/#comment-4179927</link>
		<dc:creator>Juan C.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2007 18:50:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/12/06/haaretz-israelis-knew-of-iran-nie-before-bush/#comment-4179927</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;We know where they are, 
Comment by O. Bigfoot&lt;/em&gt;

For real?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>We know where they are,<br />
Comment by O. Bigfoot</em></p>
<p>For real?<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=4179927', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: toasterhead</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2007/12/06/haaretz-israelis-knew-of-iran-nie-before-bush/comment-page-2/#comment-4179912</link>
		<dc:creator>toasterhead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2007 18:47:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/12/06/haaretz-israelis-knew-of-iran-nie-before-bush/#comment-4179912</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Iran is a big fish in a little pond. We know where they are, and we know how to eliminate them if need be.

Comment by O. Bigfoot â€” December 6, 2007 @ 1:38 pm&lt;/i&gt;

Why would we ever need to &quot;eliminate&quot; a country of 70 million people?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Iran is a big fish in a little pond. We know where they are, and we know how to eliminate them if need be.</p>
<p>Comment by O. Bigfoot â€” December 6, 2007 @ 1:38 pm</i></p>
<p>Why would we ever need to &#8220;eliminate&#8221; a country of 70 million people?<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=4179912', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: RickS</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2007/12/06/haaretz-israelis-knew-of-iran-nie-before-bush/comment-page-2/#comment-4179911</link>
		<dc:creator>RickS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2007 18:47:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/12/06/haaretz-israelis-knew-of-iran-nie-before-bush/#comment-4179911</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s a military expression that best describes any attempt by Israel to launch a strike against Iran:

 &quot;mind-numbingly stupid&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s a military expression that best describes any attempt by Israel to launch a strike against Iran:</p>
<p> &#8220;mind-numbingly stupid&#8221;<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=4179911', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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