Kennedy: Tape destruction is ‘a mockery of the rule of law.’
Kennedy: Tape destruction is ‘a mockery of the rule of law.’
On the Senate floor today, Sen. Edward Kennedy (D-MA) railed against the Bush administration over the revelation that the CIA had destroyed videotapes in 2005 of agency officials using harsh interrogation tactics. Calling it a “cover-up,” Kennedy declared that “we haven’t seen anything like this since the eighteen and a half minute gap in the tapes of President Richard Nixon” and that the administration is “making a mockery of the rule of law.” Watch it:
Kennedy noted that news of the tape destruction came “the very same week that we learned that as many as ten million White House emails have not been preserved,” saying that “the pattern is unmistakable.”
UPDATE: Judiciary Committee Chairman John Conyers and Reps. Robert Scott, William Delahunt and Jerrold Nadler have sent letters to Central Intelligence Agency Director Gen. Michael Hayden and Attorney General Michael Mukasey requesting details about today’s reports that the CIA destroyed videotapes of interrogation activities.
UPDATE II: Rep. Rush Holt (D-NJ): “Next week, I plan to hold an oversight hearing in the Select Intelligence Oversight Panel with General Hayden to examine this matter in detail.”
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I’m guessing we’re once again headed for “our long, national nightmare.” Ugh, I hated the ’70s.
December 7th, 2007 at 7:30 pmThis is blowing up pretty big in the news too – Sunday talking heads should be interesting.
No traction registering on the part of the hannity-bolton-cheney continuum – even the milquetoasters are heaping that notion with scorn.
December 7th, 2007 at 7:31 pmImpeachment is LONG overdue and an obligation of Congress according to their oath of office at this point.
This article is a “must read”. It’s a bit long but well worth taking the time because it’s right on target. Send it to everyone you know. Send it to every member of congress today. I am.
http://smirkingchimp.com/thread/11437
December 7th, 2007 at 7:33 pmI think I’ll send this Keith Olberman right now.
December 7th, 2007 at 7:34 pmThe public is already yawning. And Arlen “Magic Bullet” Specter will keep the Senate Judiciary Committee from moving anything forward. Laws are for the poor.
December 7th, 2007 at 7:37 pmI haven’t seen Ted Kennedy this angry and impassioned in a long time. I think he means business this time and I’m certain that impeachment will be the next order of business. After all, the NIE suppression of evidence which ran contrary to their agenda in Iran is identical to the how they lied to us in the run up to Iraq. The Downing Street memo was the first article of impeachment which had irrefutable evidence of a high crime having been committed. Looking back on it all, how did we ever miss it? It’s called “american incredulity” and Bush counted on this reacton of the people to buoy him through at least the next year – until he could go into exile in Paraguay. I suspect a nervous breakdown will thwart even that plan of his.
How were we so duped by these criminals within as a nation? It’s called american incredulity. Now it’s time for American truth to prevail and, as sad as this ugly truth happens to be, it’s critical that we get to the bottom of it, rid our government of it, and learn from it.
December 7th, 2007 at 7:38 pmOh I’m so re-assured. Congress is sending letters and planning hearings. I’m glad they are once again standing up to this Administration.
December 7th, 2007 at 7:39 pmCorporate Jesus: The public is far from yawning. They’re absolutely bullshit about the obstruction of justice in the stonewalling of the NIE report. Add to that the incredible anger now of this government destroying prima facie evidence in order to keep their sorry a$$es of the grill when they will stand for war crimes at the Hague. Amazing angst out there in middle america right now. I’d be shocked if there aren’t demonstrations in every city in this country by next week for the impeachment of both Bush and Cheney. As far as I can see, it’s a mandate of congress at this point and a foregone conclusion – IF – this democracy is to be salvaged from the
December 7th, 2007 at 7:41 pmrapists who are hell bent on destroying it completely (PNAC, Federalists, AIPAC….just to name a few). Thanks to the internet, the people are more informed than ever and will not tolerate this level of obvious corruption in our highest officials any longer.
jamie: We both know what this administration has done and how they have effected it. They have never responded to subpoenas and requests for documents; they have totally ignored Congress. Now we will see Congress, with the majority of americans cheering them on, muscle up to this white house.
December 7th, 2007 at 7:43 pmIt’s time for all of us to stand up for what we believe – to $hit or get off the pot. If we care about the loss of our democracy to fascism, stand up and be heard. If we care that we’re being called hypocrites when our leaders are lawless criminals, then it’s time to start making noises about it. It’s our country and if we don’t stand up for our constitution, no one else will.
December 7th, 2007 at 7:44 pmAnd trust me when I say that “fascism knows no political party nor will provide any preferences to one because of it” – essentially, no one will be safe – Dem or Republican alike. It’s time for the people to unite and rid ourselves of the heinous level of hypocrisy which prevails at this moment.
December 7th, 2007 at 7:45 pmBlahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah…
All talk… no action.
Same day… same BS from our (somewhat) elected officials.
December 7th, 2007 at 7:55 pmSo, what are they waiting for? Impeach his criminal ass, already. Get all of your people behind you and push hard: Hit all the airwaves, hold Press Conferences, talk about indictments, confiscate some WH records. Stop flapping your jaws and step up. America will stand behind you.
December 7th, 2007 at 7:59 pmMy calendar says it is December 2007. 7 years into Bush’s 8 years in office. Your sense of timing would appear to be pretty ordinary.
Comment by Kilo — December 7, 2007 @ 8:03 pm
well, better late than never. Bush needs to be tried for treason to prevent the rest of the Republican goon squad, especially Benito Giuliani, from getting any more ideas of ruling the world. America is fed up with fascist terrorists of the GOP, and a good impeachment and warcrimes trial is just the thing to set us back on our proper course of democracy and freedom, which the GOP has derailed over the past 25 years or so. Time to kill the rogue, rabid elephant before it kills the USA.
December 7th, 2007 at 8:10 pmMore investigations, more hearings. Why should the Bush administration care? They’ve been blatantly ignoring the law for the past seven years, and so far Congress has done absolutely nothing to stop it. In some cases (FISA, for example), they’ve simply rubber-stamped the administration’s illegal activities. It’s fine for Kennedy, Conyers, Holt, Leahy, and all the rest to talk tough–but so far I haven’t seen any indication that they will perform their constitutional duties.
THAT is why Congress’s approval ratings are in the toilet.
December 7th, 2007 at 8:11 pmWhile we are at it TP, why don’t you top off your recent series of posts about media personalities criticising blogs with this one:
Helen Thomas Bah-Humbugs Bloggers
Comment by Kilo — December 7, 2007 @ 8:09 pm
Helen is obviously referring to LGF and redstate, notorious for their lies and propaganda. Thansk for bringing that up; those pigs need to be exposed at every opportunity.
December 7th, 2007 at 8:12 pm“Despite their popularity with readers, the statistics and graphs about Iraq have been non-existant here at TP for a while now. Here’s a fix for all of you hanging out for that…”
Kilo, The Guardian has posted an op-ed that effectively debunks the linked graphs you posted:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,2223472,00.html?gusrc=rss&feed=12
Give it a look, and come back if you have any questions.
December 7th, 2007 at 8:12 pmComment by Kilo — December 7, 2007 @ 8:09 pm
What’s that high-pitched squealing noise? Sounds … like… maybe, an enraged hamster w/ its testicles caught in a ringer…
December 7th, 2007 at 8:16 pmYAWN
Wake me when impeachment is back on the table. Until then, all we are being treated to is a distraction.
December 7th, 2007 at 8:18 pmI guess you missed the part where the casualty figures correlate to Al Sadr’s ceasefire and NOT to the surge ;)
Reality has a liberal bias, you have an anti-factual one…
Comment by republicans hate facts — December 7, 2007 @ 8:25 pm
gotta feel sorry for Kilo, clutching at straws like that. Rightards should be used to embarrassment by now, but that blind pride in their ignorance keeps getting in the way.
December 7th, 2007 at 8:26 pmif u say so, jk.
December 7th, 2007 at 8:29 pmOne of the graphs Kilo linked to, shows Iraqis returning to Iraq in substantial numbers – but the Guardian Op-ed explains that Iraq’s government is so concerned with demonstrating that things are getting safer, that they are also counting as returning refugees those who only left the country for vacation, or who must travel outside Iraq on business, and who return a short time later.
December 7th, 2007 at 8:32 pmAn excerpt from Barfly’s article:
“The situation in Anbar is very bad, and many are out of work and impoverished. Some will work with anyone who pays them, whether it is al-Qaida or the US army. I agree the attacks on US forces in Anbar have gone down, but in a few months they may go up again. The US is building its hopes on a small trend. It doesn’t follow it will continue,” he said.
“he” being a Sunni in Anbar.
I don’t find this article to be a persuasive refutation of the linked graphs. It is an acknowledgement that things might get bad again in the future. So what? Who doesn’t know that? Things have gotten better in the last few months. No one, not even Murtha, deny that.
Here is another no brainer: if the violence DOES rebound in the near future, the reporting on Iraq will rebound in a proportional manner.
Earlier this week there was a thread about Iraq falling out of the news. It got around 30 comments when I counted last. That same day there were at least 3 threads on the NIE on Iran which garnered over 500 comments.
Good news in Iraq = Bad news for anti-war Democrats. That is a political assessment and not a moral judgement, I am not casting aspersions on anyone’s patriotism, especially my friends here at TP. But I think it is fair to say the MSM wants a Demcrat to win in 08. The drop in violence resulted in a drop in coverage. The two trends are linked hand in hand.
December 7th, 2007 at 8:35 pm“I don’t find this article to be a persuasive refutation of the linked graphs. ”
Why am I not surprised?
The op-ed relies on interviews with Iraqis, while the graphs are provided by the US military. Given that they have been caught fudging the numbers before, why would you still believe them? Astounding.
“It is an acknowledgement that things might get bad again in the future. ”
Read it again. It talks of circumstances on the ground, right now.
December 7th, 2007 at 8:41 pmFrom the Guardian op-ed:
“But none of these indicators is firm. The figures for returning refugees are contested, with the Iraqi government counting anyone who crosses into Iraq even though many had only gone abroad on short visits and were never refugees. Many genuine refugees leave Syria in desperation because their money or visas have run out, not because they feel safe in going back.
When I talked to families in a muddy bus station on the outskirts of Damascus last week as they set off home, I found only Shias. “Of course Sunnis are afraid to go. The buses are provided by the Shia-led Iraqi government and Iraqi police will check them at the border,” an Iraqi Sunni told me later. His comment underlined the continuing depth of sectarian suspicions. Sunnis assume the Iraqi police, who are mainly Shias, are either in league with Shia militias and death squads or will behave just as badly. They fear being abducted or slaughtered on the way.
So Keltoi, this is straight from the horse’s mouth: Iraqis.
December 7th, 2007 at 8:44 pmThe op-ed relies on interviews with Iraqis, while the graphs are provided by the US military. Given that they have been caught fudging the numbers before, why would you still believe them? Astounding.
Comment by barfly — December 7, 2007 @ 8:41 pm
Well then, I guess we can’t discuss anything unless we go and count the bodies ourselves. The op-ed was anecdotal interviews which fit the agenda of the author.
I am not an ideologue, Barfly, I hope you know that.
Do you deny my point about the drop in violence correlating with the drop in coverage?
December 7th, 2007 at 8:47 pmEarlier this week there was a thread about Iraq falling out of the news. It got around 30 comments when I counted last. That same day there were at least 3 threads on the NIE on Iran which garnered over 500 comments.
Perhaps the GOP is looking hard for a “no, look over here” deflection story and the progressives are not buying it!?!?
December 7th, 2007 at 8:49 pmSo Keltoi, this is straight from the horse’s mouth: Iraqis.
Comment by barfly — December 7, 2007 @ 8:44 pm
Yes, Iraqis, plural. They have every right to have a gloomy view of things. But it doesn’t speak to the statistics in the graph (even if the numbers are imprecise, the trend seems clear) as much as it does to the authors desire to find the cloud in the silver lining.
December 7th, 2007 at 8:50 pmHooray, ethnic cleansing has slowed dramatically!
Talk about low expectations.
-GSD
December 7th, 2007 at 8:51 pmDo you deny my point about the drop in violence correlating with the drop in coverage?
Comment by Keltoi at Night — December 7, 2007 @ 8:47 pm
Would that be like the rise in coverage on Fox correlating with the drop in violence?
Actually Keltoi, I have no idea if this is true. Sorry I missed your link saying that coverage has dropped unless you are counting the lack of response to TP’s posts earlier this week.
December 7th, 2007 at 8:54 pmThe US is also ’surging ‘ cash payments to 50,000 of what have been called ‘dead-enders’, ‘Sunni terrorists’, ‘the worst of the worst’.
Yep, George W. Bush has instituted a ‘terrorist welfare program, or a TWP.
That is why we can’t afford additional money for insuring poor US children, we are giving it out to men who have been killing US troops for 4 years.
-GSD
December 7th, 2007 at 8:54 pmThere’s a whole other angle to the Zubaydah videotapes not yet being addressed. According to investigative journalists Gerald Posner and James Risen, during his initial interrogation he implicated several members of the Saudi royal family in aiding and abetting Al Qaeda. You can read all the sordid details in “Part 4″ here:
http://www.asecondlookatthesaudis.com
December 7th, 2007 at 8:55 pm“Okay, question #1 would be why did you link me to a story which doesn’t relate to or discuss the figures represented in those graphs, let alone call it a story that “debunks†them ?”
The graph shows US casualties are down, and the article explains:
Sunni concerns over Shia militias also explain the Awakening movement. Although Sunni tribal leaders are taking US arms and cash, ostensibly to confront al-Qaida, they see value in getting organised to protect their suburbs from Shia raids. The Americans may be temporarily helping to reduce violence, but their tactics help to build up Sunni militias for possible attacks on Shias in the future. Once again the Americans are looking for a military solution to what is essentially a political problem. Without national reconciliation and dialogue between Sunni and Shia community leaders – a process which neither the government of Nuri al-Maliki nor General Petraeus seems able or willing to broker – the underlying issues remain unresolved.
There were 3 graphs at Obsidian Wings…
1. Iraqi civilian casualties
2. Iraqi civilian casualties with 3 month MAV
3. US casualties.
The op-ed explains why there are fewer casualties in all three categories. Try reading it without the partisan specks.
December 7th, 2007 at 8:55 pmComment by Kilo — December 7, 2007 @ 8:49 pm
according to o’reilly you’re a satan worshiper.
how do you feel about that?
December 7th, 2007 at 8:55 pm“Yes, Iraqis, plural. They have every right to have a gloomy view of things. But it doesn’t speak to the statistics in the graph (even if the numbers are imprecise, the trend seems clear) as much as it does to the authors desire to find the cloud in the silver lining.”
Comment by Keltoi at Night
Which impartial source provided those stats?
December 7th, 2007 at 8:57 pmYes, the US has allowed breathing room to Sunnis who are forming militias. We are promoting warlordism in Iraq.
The Sunnis will be tanned, armed and well funded when they choose to re-engage with the Shiites.
The US will probably side with the Sunnis. The Bush family has a history of stabbing Iraq Shiites in the back.
Treacherous people, those sleazy Bushes.
-GSD
December 7th, 2007 at 8:57 pm“Do you deny my point about the drop in violence correlating with the drop in coverage?”
Comment by Keltoi at Night
Yes.
December 7th, 2007 at 8:58 pm>>Would that be like the rise in coverage on Fox correlating with the drop in violence?
Yeah.
Actually Keltoi, I have no idea if this is true. Sorry I missed your link saying that coverage has dropped unless you are counting the lack of response to TP’s posts earlier this week.
Comment by Nature Rules — December 7, 2007 @ 8:54 pm
The TP count is what I was refering to. There is also statistical data on the media correlation, no time to find the link at present.
December 7th, 2007 at 9:00 pmTake a look at what you are writing and try to explain how you’ve ever given a shit about the Iraqi people, rather than just being against the US military.
Comment by Kilo — December 7, 2007 @ 8:57 pm
And you can perhaps explain to somebody as gullibl as you when or how you ever gave a shit about the Iraqi people, except as targets for your impotent leaders’ bigotry and racism.
December 7th, 2007 at 9:02 pm“The only thing I claimed was that TP stopped reporting monthly casualty figures in Iraq when those figures changed trend and started showing something they didn’t like.”
And I showed why the so-called stats aren’t reliable, so why should Tp post unreliable stats?
December 7th, 2007 at 9:04 pmIt is funny that for four years the Bush apologists have told us that statistics and numbers are not the appropriate metric for measuring success in Iraq.
Suddenly statistics and numbers are held up as the appropriate metric for success in Iraq.
Soon they’ll be recycling the old ‘we’ll stand down when they stand-up’ talking points too.
-GSD
December 7th, 2007 at 9:06 pmYou need to have your community ripped apart by war and neighbors and/or family killed, missing, or refugees, and soldiers patrolling your street, and then you may use words like “gloomy” and utter platitudes about silver linings. Yer’ a freekin’ moonbat.
December 7th, 2007 at 9:06 pmAnd thanks for not responding to my debunking of your posted graphs, Kilo. That says it all.
December 7th, 2007 at 9:08 pmWhat is interesting too is the crowing from the right. They were saying for 4 years that the media was exaggerating the bad news in Iraq. Now they are pointing back to all of the ‘bad news’ from the past 4 years and saying that things have gotten better.
They simply love war, love seeing people killed and want it to last forever and ever.
-GSD
December 7th, 2007 at 9:09 pmI’m just curious why Keltoi still gives the military the benefit of the doubt, after they have been caught tweaking the numbers, time and again.
December 7th, 2007 at 9:10 pmComment by republicans hate facts
Yeah, I fail to see why these guys think they can believe the American military’s stats. It’s not like they haven’t been caught lying before.
December 7th, 2007 at 9:15 pm“I didn’t read it with any bias, I simply looked through it for “%†then for any mention of casualties and found neither. It clearly wasn’t referring to trends in casualties in Iraq and your quote — nor the entire article — suggests it is.”
And you believe the US military’s numbers… why? As I’ve said before, the Bush military has been caught fudging the numbers in a wide variety of instances; yet you continue to take their word for the situation in Iraq. Simply astounding. I guess you’re feeling a little hacked off because Australia’s leader got dumped for his continued support for the war. That’s understandable.
December 7th, 2007 at 9:23 pmSo, to review: Kilo posted a link to graphs prepared by the same folks who lied us into this war, and he still believes them. I posted an op-ed which explained why this was no big deal, and Kilo’s comeback is to clasp the graphs even tighter to his bosom.
Debunked.
December 7th, 2007 at 9:27 pmEither way, after pointing out that that TP isn’t reporting positive trends in casualty figures in Iraq with the same enthusiasm it did with negative trends what am I reading here?
It wasn’t with enthusiasm. TP was sorrowfully pointing out the massive death and destruction caused by a war that did not have to be fought.
So far nothing other than arguments for why these trends cannot be attributed to the surge. This would appear to a defacto admission of why these figures have gone unreported here.
There has been a large amount of ethnic cleansing and the military is letting local tribes [as they did in al-Anbar Province] take control of security.
It’s also very telling that less Iraqis and US servicemen dying rates not a mention here, among those who’ve spent so long and so much effort pretending this was a major concern.
Comment by Kilo — December 7, 2007 @ 9:17 pm
It doesn’t matter. No Iraqi or American should be dying in this senseless war and subsequent occupation.
December 7th, 2007 at 9:30 pmit’s a known fact that the reason the KIA numbers are down is because the medical units have done an exemplary job saving 7 out of ten lives…do the math.As for this topic…the evidence has been destroyed….but i’m pretty sure they didn’t destroy all of it.And then theres the people….there has to be at least one or two Honest people in that organization.At any rate….they have succeeded in showing us that they are willing to do anything to cover up their illegal deeds…as for the people who still side with the Preznit…….they’ll never get it,because they’re being willfully ignorant..
December 7th, 2007 at 9:30 pm.
Introducing legislation to require the Army Field Manual be followed…
Reinventing the wheel.
SINCE WHEN DID TORTURE BECOME LEGAL
THAT CONGRESS HAS TO MAKE IT ILLEGAL…
… AGAIN?
.
December 7th, 2007 at 9:31 pmthose KIA number reflect US service personnel
December 7th, 2007 at 9:32 pmThis is however a late claim of concern from you and once again, one that’s unaccompanied by an explanation for why it justifies not reporting positive trends in casualty figures that were fine to post (from the US military mind you) when the trends were negative.
Comment by Kilo — December 7, 2007 @ 9:31 pm
Posting the positive trends in Iraq is like posting the positive aspects of Hitler’s invasion of Poland.
December 7th, 2007 at 9:37 pmHey Kilo….none of this changes the fact that this was the deadliest year in Iraq so far.
December 7th, 2007 at 9:40 pmAnd so far you’ve offered no discussion, let alone an explanation for why anything you’ve written justifies a Fox-news-style blackout here on reporting the casualty figures TP has always been more than happy to.
Comment by Kilo — December 7, 2007 @ 9:35 pm
So you want TP to start posting the casualty figures of a war that did not have to be fought?
Why don’t you post the names of the Americans and Iraqis who have died recently this senseless war?
December 7th, 2007 at 9:42 pmMike Ferraro jr died in this war……his dad and I went to HS together….I have more who are still serving there.
December 7th, 2007 at 9:45 pmKilo…your logic is twisted…..because you refuse to aknowledge that the people you backed LIED..to the country and to YOU!
December 7th, 2007 at 9:50 pmUPDATE II: Rep. Rush Holt (D-NJ): “Next week, I plan to hold an oversight hearing in the Select Intelligence Oversight Panel with General Hayden to examine this matter in detail.â€
And Rush, please make him testify under oath. It is becoming totally ridiculous that not one Bush Administration employee has testified under oath. I may be wrong here, but I don’t think I am.
December 7th, 2007 at 9:51 pmLike I said, you guys certainly put a lot of effort into pretending you gave a crap about US servicemen dying.
Comment by Kilo — December 7, 2007 @ 9:49 pm
And you ENDLESSLY put effort into distorting and twisintg the facts around to make yourself look right about every last F-in’ thing under the sun, but alas, you STILL come across as a desperate, deluded, totally disingenuos liar and fool.
And one last time – NO, that’s not nine inches. It’s barely 2&1/2, 3 tops.
December 7th, 2007 at 9:52 pm#92…I’m going to give you a pass on this one……
December 7th, 2007 at 9:52 pmLike I said, you guys certainly put a lot of effort into pretending you gave a crap about US servicemen dying.
Comment by Kilo
Does this mean that you are saying that you and your ilk give a fu(k about service people (there are women dying too)? If you cared, you would be doing something to 1) make sure that they were not sent to Iraq without adequate training, 2) make sure that they get adequate rest between tours of duty, 3) make sure that they have the best equipment available to keep them safe (you know, like Dragon Skin armor currently only available to Backwater mercenaries) and finally that the National Guard soldiers conscripted actually have a job to come home to. When you are the Republiscums make all those things happen, then I might believe that you give a sh|t about our soldiers dying in the Occupation of Iraq.
December 7th, 2007 at 9:54 pmIf only there was something that could be done about this … oh yeah: IMPEACH!!!
December 7th, 2007 at 9:55 pmYes and they did that the very instant that those figures were available. In fact they were also offering reports on monthly casualty figures before the end of the month.
That’s the enthusiasm I’m talking about pal, and nobody’s gonna disagree with it occurring.
Nah . It’s exactly what I said: “TP was sorrowfully pointing out the massive death and destruction caused by a war that did not have to be fought.”
Here on the other hand… well…. you try finding the last month that did get a mention. Those figures are certainly out. Hell the October figures are practically stale by now. I bet there’s been 10 stories about John Edwards hair and Rudy’s wives since those figures became available. Yet nothin here.
Why don’t you come here everyday and post the names of the Americans and Iraqis who have died in this war which did not have to be fought?
I don’t give a fk if they are using trained rabbits. Where is explanation for why a sharp and clear trend in decreasing violence doesn’t rate a mention when anything and everything relating to increases in violence did ?
Ethnic cleansing was mentioned here some weeks ago.
It certainly mattered when those figures were going up. Or at least that was supposed to be the concern.
Comment by Kilo — December 7, 2007 @ 9:46 pm
Why don’t you come here everyday and post the names of the Americans and Iraqis who have died in this war which did not have to be fought?
December 7th, 2007 at 9:56 pmBTW, you clueless dipstick, the topic of the thread is BruschCo once again obstructing justice, not American servicemen dying.
Nice attempt at thwowing everyone off track.
December 7th, 2007 at 9:56 pmAny more of my arguments you want to validate while you are at it ?
Any
Comment by Kilo — December 7, 2007 @ 9:55 pm
The topic of thead is BruschCo obstructing justice AGAIN, not trying to figure what kinds and dosages of meds you need to treat your rampant mental illness.
December 7th, 2007 at 9:57 pmThis speaks for itself.
Comment by Kilo — December 7, 2007 @ 9:57 pm
What – your enormous and undying need to be right, and the hideous inferiority complex that fuels it?
December 7th, 2007 at 9:58 pmNo, I want an explanation for why they stopped posting precisely that, which they had been doing for years.
Perhaps you would like to STFU now until you understand something that has been written.
Comment by Kilo — December 7, 2007 @ 9:51 pm
You’re obviously upset over this and I gave you a solution:
“Why don’t you come here everyday and post the names of the Americans and Iraqis who have died in this war which did not have to be fought?”
December 7th, 2007 at 9:59 pmLike I said, you guys certainly put a lot of effort into pretending you gave a crap about US servicemen dying.
Comment by Kilo — December 7, 2007 @ 9:49 pm
It’s you people who don’t give a crap. Your President sent servicemen to die in a war that did not have to be fought and you condone it.
December 7th, 2007 at 10:02 pmBTW, you clueless dipstick, the topic of the thread is BruschCo once again obstructing justice, not American servicemen dying.
Nice attempt at thwowing everyone off track.
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — December 7, 2007 @ 9:56 pm
Oh sorry, can you point me to the post where the topic was the sharp drop in violence in Iraq ?
Comment by Kilo — December 7, 2007 @ 10:00 pm
It’s located in the middle of the green zone in Iraq , skid mark….
December 7th, 2007 at 10:02 pmBTW
Why aren’t you there , fighting for your fearless leader’s noble cause ?
Kilo…attack me all you want..with this weeks news.Iran(bullsh!t) the CIA destoying evidence……what make you think they didn’t out Plame Now?
December 7th, 2007 at 10:02 pmI’m saying nothing other than you don’t, and getting no disagreement.
Nothing else needs saying. This speaks for itself.
Comment by Kilo — December 7, 2007 @ 9:57 pm
Your spin is the usual bullshit. the possibility that there is a slight temporary decrease in casualties has been spun to exclude the fact that 2007 was the deadliest year on record for US troops. Your little spin game has not been bought by TP. Obviously, that bothers you. we, however, being the citizens paying for this clusterf((k, look at the whole picture, not some temporary BS from the Bushco liars. leave it to coward warmongers like you to try to make a big deal out of a temproary, but very costly, bump.
December 7th, 2007 at 10:03 pmOh sorry, can you point me to the post where the topic was the sharp drop in violence in Iraq ?
Comment by Kilo — December 7, 2007 @ 10:00 pm
Right out of the KKKarl Rove playbook.
“If they’re careless enough to let you frame the argument YOUR way, you really can’t lose!”
SOOORRRY, you lose. NOT… THE… TOPIC>>>!!!!
If you want to frame every argument to please yourself, start your own blog.
If you want TP to run a different thread, email them, Chucklenuts.
If you can’t stay on topic, go home.
December 7th, 2007 at 10:03 pmIt wasn’t me who was comparing US servicemen to Nazis, it was one of your regulars.
Comment by Kilo — December 7, 2007 @ 9:55 pm
Nah, I was comparing the Bush administration to Hitler.
December 7th, 2007 at 10:04 pm#100…I don’t need a defense…….you do.
December 7th, 2007 at 10:05 pmHey Kilo…go back to #89…….and yes I have family still there…on there third tour…and just so you know…my nephew got blown up by an IED…luckily he survived it…but the guy next to him wasn’t so lucky…don’t you see that all these topics are connected?
December 7th, 2007 at 10:10 pmwoo hoo – live one on this thread. think i’ve seen him around before.
no real grasp on the “cause-and-effect” thing, like so many of them
actually believing that some charts and graphs trump empirical evidence. (at least while it’s convenient)
wow, kilo, you know, you’re really not as good at this as even someone like jason hendler, and that’s saying very little indeed.
December 7th, 2007 at 10:12 pmto all you good people out there I say THANK YOU!…..and good night …be well.
December 7th, 2007 at 10:13 pmComment by Kilo — December 7, 2007 @ 10:14 pm
Could you please shut the hell up , you sorry , ignorant , unfeeling and stupid little pissant ………………
December 7th, 2007 at 10:17 pmactually believing that some charts and graphs trump empirical evidence. (at least while it’s convenient)
Comment by tombaker — December 7, 2007 @ 10:12 pm
Funny, that was actually my complaint about TP.
Comment by Kilo — December 7, 2007 @ 10:16 pm
December 7th, 2007 at 10:19 pmFunny how you blindly , stupidly and implicitly trust the most dishonest and worst president and administration in US history without question while claiming that …….
The Truth is the TRUTH……….and as for my friends son……it’s been publicized on national TV…..and I can tell you this….he doesn’t back Boosh.
December 7th, 2007 at 10:20 pmI don’t know if this administration is stupid or too arrogant. The same modus operandi to build up war against Iran. Same type of lies. Now these torture tapes destroyed???!!!! I’m surprised that they haven’t reenacted 9/11 so to get people scared again and continue their facist agenda. They have a lot to unswer, and under oath, about 9/11! I’m sure one of these tapes of torture they got someone “confessing” planing and executing 9/11… What is Congress doing????? What is Rat Pelosi doing???? What do they need? More dead people? American and Iraquis alike!? They commit one crime after another, and what happens???? Nothing! Where is the American people????!!!!!! If this was my country I would be surrounding Congress and demanding action and accountability!!!! Overdue action and accountability!!!! Shame on Congress! IMPEACH, INDICT, INPRISON BUSH/CHENNEY & Co. HAGE 2009!!!!
December 7th, 2007 at 10:21 pmok I’m done…again thanks folks….be well.
December 7th, 2007 at 10:22 pmNo need to clarify. Absolutely nobody other than myself even questioned this, let alone took issue with it.
Comment by Kilo — December 7, 2007 @ 10:18 pm
If you want to start your own blog (”Trolls Gone Wild”???), please feel free to do so. I’m sure your fellow trolls will gladly come and hang out.
If you want TP to run a specific thread, try emailing them.
If you CAN”T stay on the topic, GO HOME.
YOU don’t set the agenda here, DIPSTICK.
December 7th, 2007 at 10:24 pmYOU don’t set the agenda here, DIPSTICK.
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — December 7, 2007 @ 10:24 pm
KilofcocaineforShrub is under the same laughable delusion that the rest of the Chimpy Adoration Brigade and the Shrub administration itself is under ; that they’re beyond reproach and possess the inalienable right to decide everything and anything………
Because 7 straight years of being incorrect on everything gives you losers a certain type of credibility and/or “political capital” ?
December 7th, 2007 at 10:28 pmIMPEACH, INDICT, INPRISON BUSH/CHENNEY & Co. HAGE 2009!!!!
December 7th, 2007 at 10:28 pmLook at all this troll crap. You trolls must be really scared posters are going to stay on topic here. What with GWB this close to following in Nixon’s footsteps you reichwing nutjobs are going down as the dumbest Americans ever. Still carrying water like a bunch of stooges. If you had any pride you would slink away quietly.
December 7th, 2007 at 10:54 pmMaybe speedy aught da stick around and defend his client for treason and warcrimes ?I hear he’s having trouble booking speaking engagements .
December 7th, 2007 at 11:02 pmno statute of limitations on war crimes alberto .
Covering up the coverup of multiple coverups is hard work.
December 8th, 2007 at 12:05 am(CNN) — A top-ranking Republican on one of the most influential committees in Congress announced Friday that he plans to resign — opening up yet another G.O.P. seat in a year that has already seen 18 Republicans announce plans to leave the chamber.
re: McCrery (R-LA) – #19
hey righties, why do you suppose so many R’s are quitting/retiring??
December 8th, 2007 at 1:56 amWaterboarding is not the reason the CIA destroyed those tapes! Yes they showed waterboarding. And it is a practice that should be stopped! But there is something bigger on those tapes, and that is what motivated their destruction!
One of the suspects was tricked into thinking he was taken to Saudi Arabia, thinking that would terrify him into talking. And in fact, he became quite relaxed. The first time he met the interrigators, he gave them the personal private cell phone number of a member of the Saudi Royal Family and told them to call him, and he would set them straight!
Read about the whole thing here in the second half of the article…
http://willyloman.wordpress.com/2007/12/07/the-core-part-1-the-economy-of-lies/
Source is Gerald Posner and the name of the al Qaeda suspect is Abu Zabaydah.
this is the story about the three Saudi Princes who ended up dead after someone implicated them in terrorist financing. And these are the tapes…
December 8th, 2007 at 8:37 amThe 911 commision was not given access to these tapes, despite requesting all interogation tapes and material. Mr. Posner’s story about the three Saudi Princes and the Head of Pakistan’s Air Force, all conveniently Dead , would have had a MAJOR impact on the 911 Commissions findings.
December 8th, 2007 at 9:17 am911 conspiricy theories aside, I don’t think the FULL STORY of what happened on Sept. 11 has been investigated. Apparently those in the CIA who ordered the destruction of the tapes would agree.
My hope is that this issue will be about MORE than waterboarding.
Uh . . . Earth to Ted . . . there IS no rule of law anymore. Didn’t you get the RNC memo?
December 8th, 2007 at 1:13 pmCoherent, intelligent Americans ignore ANYTHING this murderer says!!
Comment by John Kerry — December 8, 2007 @
Bush or Cheney?
December 8th, 2007 at 2:41 pmhooo-weee – jk’s got a handle on those rabid-righty slurs, don’t he…
hey jk – i think, if any significant # of people gave a genuine pinch of shit for the chappaquiddick thing, there’d have been consequences 10 or 20 or 30 or 40 years ago – time to stop hoping and honking.
your boys are going down. trying (lamely, i might add) to slime ted kennedy is sure as hell not going to have an effect on that.
the more you guys grasp for straws, and resort to chickenshit tactics, the longer it’s going to be before americans will vote in your direction – so, for my part, i invite you to keep it up, be more aggressive, and never stop reminding the world of all those people Clinton killed, and how sandy berger somehow matters, and how ted kennedy is a liberal who had a car wreck.
keep it all comin’, righties, cause every paragraph is another strand in the rope that’s hangin’ ya. yeeeeee—–haaaaaaaaa
December 8th, 2007 at 3:24 pmnot as funny as your contributions, Biggie.
December 8th, 2007 at 4:06 pmIn the spirit of the season:
“It’s beginning to smell a LOT like Watergate,
Everywhere you go…”
December 8th, 2007 at 4:29 pmWhether you are outraged about this or not, Ted Kennedy is the last person on the planet who should be leading the charge. He orchestrated the biggest coverup ever, and a young woman died. And irony of ironies: He’s worried about whether terrorists were waterboarded, but he left a young American in a watery grave. Find another standard-bearer, folks. This one rings hollow.
December 8th, 2007 at 7:44 pmDarlene,
Nice point, but since Laura Bush T-boned her ex-boyfriend’s car and he died, and she was not tested for DUI, ticketed or investigated, and her record in the case was erased . . . as was Bush’s driving record prior to his run Governor . . . that “Ted Kennedy murdered and got away with it” flag don’t fly.
December 9th, 2007 at 2:52 amAll I want for Christmas is a new president . . . one who reads, recalls and comprhends . . . who didn’t isn’t a member of Scull & Bones, who’s loyalty lies with the well-being of the American people, our land, wildlife, heritage and freedom. . . . Who has read the Constitution, understands it and its critical value to our nation, and who has respect for all nations, not just the interests of venture capitalists, mercenaries and hedge funds. . . One who doesn’t see polar bears as throw rugs, but as canaries in the mine . . . and the mine not as a rout to riches, but as a scar on the landscape . . . one who sees the vein of truth as a virtue rather than a mine field to be eviscerated at all cost.
Merry Christmas and happy holidays.
December 9th, 2007 at 3:12 amInvestigation of the incident, not of Laura Bush, does reveal that she was driving at a high rate of speed, more than sixty in a thirty mile per hour zone, and ran a stop sign before she hit and killed her lover.
No need to investigate, DUI test. Just let the poor jilted lover go . . . years later . . . record erased.
She’s such a sweetie. You or me . . . yeah, we’d be serving ten to twenty. . . . wonder where his loved ones are celebrating this holiday season. However glamorous . . . how sad. God be with you. No amount of money can soothe the pain of such loss.
December 9th, 2007 at 4:00 amTo clarify, he wasn’t jilted, she was.
December 9th, 2007 at 4:04 amLaura later had a three month romance, Tom Cruise style, in which time she resumed and consumated her relationship with dub’ya.
Recently, when asked what was the toughest decision he ever had to make in his life, Bush responded, “Asking Laura to marry me.”
Ahhh. . . ain’t love great?
Bomb Iraq . . . easy . . . marry Laura, the mother of my now grown children . . . a friggin’ nightmare.
December 9th, 2007 at 4:09 amFair enough. Good points about Laura Bush… (which I am sure you had at the ready in case somebody criticized your sainted Ted Kennedy)…but she’s not the one crying “coverup.” I’m not saying that the CIA didn’t do anything wrong or that it shouldn’t be investigated. I’m just saying that hugely hypocritical Ted Kennedy, given what he did, doesn’t add credibilty to the “outrage.” He should keep his fat mouth shut on this one.
December 9th, 2007 at 10:34 am