Were other tapes destroyed?
Were other tapes destroyed?
“Vincent Warren of the Center for Constitutional Rights, which has been representing detainees held by the government at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, suggested that the disclosure by the CIA suggests the agency destroyed evidence in other cases. The center represents Majid Khan, a former ‘ghost’ detainee who was allegedly held in a secret prison in Eastern Europe before being transferred to Guantanamo. Warren said the center has asked for materials relating to interrogations of Khan. ‘I find it hard to believe the CIA would make videotapes of interrogations of only two people,’ Warren said.”
UPDATE: The ACLU is calling on Attorney General Mukasey to appoint an independent counsel to investigate, and if appropriate, prosecute any potential criminal activity.
UPDATE II: The Justice Department and CIA announced they will conduct a joint preliminary inquiry into the agency’s destruction of videotapes. The review will determine whether a full investigation is warranted.
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“Were other tapes destroyed?”
- – I mentioned this in an earlier post. You think ONLY two interrogations were taped? And the CIA made nice with every other interrogation? Puh-leeeeze.
December 8th, 2007 at 6:06 pmDestroy all evidence of wrong doing. They learned their Watergate lessons well.
December 8th, 2007 at 6:09 pm“Yeah. Let’s just break our intelligence apparatus by these witch hunts.”
– How about we abide by our Constitution and laws and refuse to become the Banana Republic we’re well on our way to becoming? Ya know, just a thought.
December 8th, 2007 at 6:14 pmprolly.
December 8th, 2007 at 6:16 pmas to the UPDATE II, above,
can you smell the obstruction
of justice charges, just a-simmerin’
away, here, now? i can.
well, now — this is encouraging.
judge michael mukasey is looking like
he may be a man of his word. and, here
is the full-easy-reaing-text of the DoJ
letter to the CIA announcing the joint investigation. . .
now, is it at least possible that
the videos mentioned in the DoJ letter
to judge leonie brinkema on november
9, 2007 — in the moussoui case — are
not the ONLY tapes?
i think so.
buckle-up, dick, your karma’s gonna’
come a-callin’, and perhaps before
christmas day 2007.
p e a c e
December 8th, 2007 at 6:23 pm#7: “So you really think a 18th Century document meets the threats and challenges of 21st Century?”
- – Gee, it withstood two world wars and a cold war with an equally strong military power as us. And if the Constitution is indeed passe, if the executive branch can simply get away with anything under cover of “national security”, we really have left the rule of law behind in the ditch. Hell, even Malkin said about the destruction of these tapes, “it IS bad.”
December 8th, 2007 at 6:23 pmThe most important reason to investigate and prosecute these offenses stems from the attitudes of stupid, ignorant fascists such as Frank M. Frank is the typical sexually impotent coward that wets himself everytime that there is a danger. It is not his fault that he is spineless. He was born that way. However, his irrational fear leads to a desire for a strong leader such as a Hitler or other such dictator to compensate for his own knowledge that he is inferior and inadequate. He desires to encourage torture because it compensates for his own self loathing arising from his own sexual deviation.
December 8th, 2007 at 6:23 pmWere other tapes destroyed? Certainly! I am sure that the crimes that we know about represents 10% (or less) of the crimes actually committed by Bushco and his NeoScum.
December 8th, 2007 at 6:25 pmYeah. Let’s just break our intelligence apparatus by these witch hunts. . .
this is reductio. and disinegnous.
i am sure you are capable of better.
show us. this is a laughable attack
on the rule of law, and the constitution,
you’ve offered here — bareley worth
mentioning. but i have, just to be complete.
c h e e r s !
– nolo
December 8th, 2007 at 6:27 pmYeah. Let’s just break our intelligence apparatus by these witch hunts.
Comment by Frank M
Are GOP calls for an investigation into the new NIE witch hunts as well?
December 8th, 2007 at 6:34 pmSo you really think a 18th Century document meets the threats and challenges of 21st Century? Threats like nuclear suicide bombers?
Comment by Frank M — December 8, 2007 @ 6:16 pm
Maybe it’s time to rid ourselves of that centuries old document called the Bible too.
December 8th, 2007 at 6:34 pm“So you really think a 18th Century document meets the threats and challenges of 21st Century? Threats like nuclear suicide bombers?
Comment by Frank M”
So, let’s get rid of that document, right?
Were you born stupid or did you learn that somewhere?
*snicker* “nuclear suicide bombers”
December 8th, 2007 at 6:35 pm“Let’s hope they all have been destroyed. The last thing we need is some Democrat Congressperson releasing the tapes to the media as a method of embarrasing the United States. Bigfoot”
Yeah, we wouldn’t want to expose any CIA agents to danger by outing their idenity, like bush did to Valerie Plame. Who was working on WMD in Iran by the way. Hmmm. isn’t that interesting.
December 8th, 2007 at 6:35 pm“The Justice Department and CIA announced they will conduct a joint preliminary inquiry into the agency’s destruction of videotapes. The review will determine whether a full investigation is warranted.”
The DOJ and the CIA doing the investigating? That’s the fox guarding the hen house. Of course, their results will be that no full investigation is needed. No harm done here. Move along.
December 8th, 2007 at 6:37 pm408 days left. Many days to create further damage.
December 8th, 2007 at 6:43 pmSo you really think a 18th Century document meets the threats and challenges of 21st Century? Threats like nuclear suicide bombers?
Comment by Frank M — December 8, 2007 @ 6:16 pm
Especially that part about well armed militias, Totally archaic and unneeded
December 8th, 2007 at 6:44 pm13 – Frank’s determined to embarrass himself before the largest possible audience. That’s dedication.
December 8th, 2007 at 6:45 pmi think suicide missions have been around since the days of sticks and rocks, so yes, i do think the Framers were up to that particular “challenginly hard-to-imagine” possibility.
i swear – some of these people really do believe that intelligence developed right alongside technology, and that the people of the past were actually dumb
December 8th, 2007 at 6:47 pmDo bears sh1t in the woods?
December 8th, 2007 at 7:03 pmi swear – some of these people really do believe that intelligence developed right alongside technology, and that the people of the past were actually dumb
They have their own restrictions to cope with, intellectually, that is. But they can operate a car (with a stickshift).
December 8th, 2007 at 7:05 pm[ funny that a batch of righties, who idolize all that is macho, tough, and decisive let a blueblood prep-school cheerleader draft-dodger take over their club ]
December 8th, 2007 at 7:07 pmThe silver lining here is it seems that the Republicans respect (fear) the law enough to destroy evidence. Up until recently they have considered themselves above the law.
Frank everyday we arm terrorists and give them cash. And you enable this by supporting these Republican. Give it up. It’s time to isolate Muslim countries. Not give them nukes.
December 8th, 2007 at 7:12 pmIf there are any tapes left, they better be on the fire as I type this.
Comment by O. Bigfoot
I put the tapes of you humping the rump roast and fondling your frank on the grill an hour or so ago, Bigpoot, they should be done by now.
December 8th, 2007 at 7:18 pmI kept the one of you stuffing your sausage into the cooker, hope you don’t mind. The girls think it’s hilarious.
This so-called joint investigation is nothing more than a “whitewash”… pure and simple! The Leadership of the Democratic party should DEMAND more, but we already know they won’t do that…
December 8th, 2007 at 7:20 pmDid the CIA Also Destroy Padilla Interrogation Tapes?
the 8 ball says: “chances are good”
December 8th, 2007 at 7:44 pmInvestagate themselves?……I’ll go with the ACLU approach,thank you.
December 8th, 2007 at 7:46 pmGeorge W. Bush has enacted a terrorist welfare program in Iraq. Money and weapons for the worst of the worst, dead enders, Saddamites and extremists.
-GSD
December 8th, 2007 at 7:49 pmChimpy is pulling the dusty old Reagan “I cannot recall” exscuse from his wrinkled donut.
Hooray, a renegade government that tortures and covers-up.
-GSD
December 8th, 2007 at 7:51 pmUPDATE II: The Justice Department and CIA announced they will conduct a joint preliminary inquiry into the agency’s destruction of videotapes. The review will determine whether a full investigation is warranted.
Don’t hold your breath. In the case of the CIA it’s a case of the fox investigating the hen house and in the case of the Justice department, Mulkasey will just show us all how he took his oath to George Bush and not to the Constitution.
December 8th, 2007 at 7:52 pmYeah. Let’s just break our intelligence apparatus by these witch hunts.
Comment by Frank M
You know Francine, you are totally obsessed with witch hunts. Let me ask you a question. Do you see any need for oversight of the Bush Administration. And if you don’t, will you feel the same way when a Democrat is the President? Did you object about all the “witch hunts” the Republicans did when Clinton was President?
December 8th, 2007 at 7:54 pmIf there are any tapes left, they better be on the fire as I type this.
Comment by O. Bigfoot
So OBigFootInMouth, you are ok with obstruction of justice? Now that was a dumb question, of course you are, as long as it is Republiscums doing the obstructing.
December 8th, 2007 at 7:56 pmgood links here:
Countdown: Torture, Lies and Videotape
December 8th, 2007 at 8:09 pmhttp://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/12/08/countdown-cia-may-have-committed-multiple-crimes-in-torture-tape-scandal/
Did you object about all the “witch hunts†the Republicans did when Clinton was President?
Comment by bilbobaggins — December 8, 2007 @ 7:54 pm
Well ya know, gittin’ a hummer in the Oral Offi… I mean OVAL Office, a hummer in the Oval Office, that’s truly reprehensible. Lying the country into a war, killing multiple 100s of thousands of civilians, torture, unlimited eavesdropping, corruption, graft… psshaw, as my granny used ta say…
December 8th, 2007 at 8:32 pmMaybe it’s time to rid ourselves of that centuries old document called the Bible too.
Comment by Nature Rules
PLEASE!!! I’ll bring the matches!
December 8th, 2007 at 9:50 pmSo you really think a 18th Century document meets the threats and challenges of 21st Century? Threats like nuclear suicide bombers?
Comment by Frank M
The only real threat that I see, to this country, is the massive amounts of STUPIDITY coming from IDIOTS like you. That’s doing far more damage than any of your imaginary “nuclear suicide bomber” could ever hope to do.
December 8th, 2007 at 9:55 pmComment by JPV — December 8, 2007 @ 9:50 pm
I do not condone the burning of any book, we should however move The Bible to the Fiction section at the library.
December 8th, 2007 at 9:55 pmit occurred to me after reading comments here and there…
more and more i’m thinking that it wasn’t just to hide the torture…
it was to hide the names and purposes of criminals aka bushco…
this is a very dirty deal… the whole lot of them… very dirty…
December 8th, 2007 at 10:13 pmIsn’t it probable that duplicates of these tapes exist?
It’s been my experience that multiple copies of every tape, document and transaction exist . . . particularly if something is so juicy as these interrogation tapes.
I’m 99% sure that copies exist. I’m 99% sure that dozens, if not more, people have seen these tapes. Were they actually tapes, or electronic recordings? If they were electronically recorded, they can be recreated if the machines upon which they were recorded were not also destroyed.
Who would know about this? If any “well-informed sources” are out there, please speak up.
December 8th, 2007 at 10:59 pm. . . or just make copies, keep one or two, and mail the remainder to every news outlet you consider credible. . . better yet, put it on U-Tube. . . anon of course.
December 8th, 2007 at 11:03 pmCan I assume that any lawyer defending any of the detainees can use the destruction of evidence in one case to cast doubts on the veracity of the government witnesses in their case ?
If this were a trial under the constitution, I’d say yes. But I’ve got to remember that the proceedings are rigged for the Gitmo detainees.
December 8th, 2007 at 11:09 pmAssuming that multiple copies were made, perhaps there was a concerted effort to locate and destroy each. Wouldn’t such an effort fall within the time-period of the deleted White House e-mails? Such an effort, no matter how discreetly made, could not have been completely discreet. Lots of people would have to be asked, “Do you have a copy of the terrorist interrogation tape?” Tell you what, if some man in black came to me asking such a question, I be horribly shaken and would discuss it with my significant other, even if I had no idea what tape the men in black were asking about. E-mails discussing how best to address the catastrophe of the missing copies would fly . . . as would threats, fear and pay offs. There is a trail. The White House may have destroyed its own e-mails and used Republican servers and e-mail addresses, but the recipients didn’t.
December 8th, 2007 at 11:13 pmSo you really think a 18th Century document meets the threats and challenges of 21st Century? Threats like nuclear suicide bombers?
Comment by Frank M — December 8, 2007 @ 6:16 pm
I sure do, since it was specifically created to EVOLVE to meet whatever may come. Thus, it isn’t truly an 18th Century document. It’s an 18th Century document with 220 years worth of real-time adjustments to the society evolving around it, and a full body of laws to support it.
You blatantly wear your treasonous thoughts as a badge of honor. You genuinely think the Constitution is just a “damned piece of paper”, don’t you? The Constitution is a very powerful document, centered around a profoundly world-changing ideal: Government that is afraid of its citizenry, as opposed to a citizenry afraid of its government. Every right We the People give away tips the scales of power away from We the People directly in to the hands of the government itself. Getting those rights BACK is the harder road to travel, but preserves our life, our liberty, and our pursuit of happiness. Not that you care about any of that, I’m sure. At least, that is what your posts quite thoroughly indicate.
December 8th, 2007 at 11:17 pmMapleStreet,
It’s unclear at this point the rules of evidence that will apply to the trials of the detainees (however few); however, under any rules, the fact that evidence was destroyed would generally be considered by any trier of fact, regardless.
If it isn’t (and even if it isn’t), these detainees might want to petition the International Court of Justice, which could hear the case with or without the presence of the detainee, and perhaps even rule on the justice of the US policy of destroying evidence against detainees as a human rights violation.
I’m not an expert on the ICJ, but it seems a reasonable course of action . . . no doubt considered by their attorneys . . . need more information
December 8th, 2007 at 11:21 pmBottom line MapleStreet,
Bush would ignore any decision by the ICJ, or any court in this country, regarding the detainees. (Detainees are Bush’s love children . . . fall in love with war in Iraq, nine-months later, what’ve you got? Detainee love children)
What does a Bush get a love child for Christmas? Justice, a waterboard . . . a waterslide . . .? Noooooo!
. . . he’s Dub’ya the Decider. . . doesn’t read . . . can’t recall . . he’s the God chosen DECIDER-IN-CHIEF. . . he doesn’t owe any child squat!
( . . . channel old Batman TV and sing along)
duh-da-duh-da . . du-da-duh-da . . . Dat-Man!!!
December 8th, 2007 at 11:36 pmBush f***d Iraq, didn’t consider the consequences, bred a nation of insurgents repleat with sibling rivalry, populated a prison colony . . . and now refuses to take responsibility.
His progeny is just as weak as he is, and now that Daddy Warbucks is getting kicked off his thrown, his kids will be left in charge . . . chaos looms.
December 8th, 2007 at 11:45 pm“Yeah. Let’s just break our intelligence apparatus by these witch hunts.”
Ferret-face. You don’t even believe the NIE, what do you care about the intelligence apparatus? You don’t believe them anyway.
December 9th, 2007 at 12:16 am“Nope. Not interesting at all. The Plame story is old, discredited news. Plame wasn’t covert, wasn’t outed (except by her husband),”
Well, not according to the CIA and the prosecutor. But they are flaming liberals, aren’t they?
December 9th, 2007 at 12:21 amSabyen91,
Don’t confuse the issue with facts…
December 9th, 2007 at 12:27 amSorry, Zoo. Force of habit.
December 9th, 2007 at 12:30 amHeh.
December 9th, 2007 at 1:46 amHistory has shown that governments have been a far greater threat to it’s critters than terrorists. Our Founding Fathers knew this, having come from an oppressive government, so they put in place checks and balances that have since been corrupted.
There has never been a suicide nuclear bomber. Why people worry about threats which have never happened before is beyond me. When you change who you are and what you do because you fear terrorists, you have surrendered since this is what they want you to do. They want you to be afraid, that is the goal.
Probably one reason we have not been attacked again is because 9/11 worked so well, it scared many of the critters so much for so long they assumed the missionary position and begged governnment to “Take Me, I am Yours, just keep me safe’ and government obliges and keeps banging away for over 6 years now. The cave dwellers in DC and Pakistan giggle at the critters surrendering their bottled water at airport security check points wondering when the critters will come to their senses and figure out their government is taking advantage of them.
And worst case, if it happens, the country survives, and the country that provided the materials for the bomb would cease to exist (we can be judge and jury). Which is why no nuclear state will ever allow terrorists to get hold of a bomb from them or use them against us themselves.
Ben Franklin said those who would give up their liberty for more security deserve neither.
CIA torture agents could always wear hoods during these interrogations. Thats the standard head gear for terrorists.
December 9th, 2007 at 2:56 amInteresting that on the ABC Evening News a reporter whose name is something like “Mishleoshevskii” (Pitiful, but I think he goes by Nick – I tried to Google to get the correct last name but came up with nothing based upon my own spellings),
Anyway, in reporting this story, he addressed concerns that the identities of the interrogators might be released and had his face and voice electrontically conflated to show the ease with which technology could be used to insure the anonymity of any of the interrogators. In a subtle or not so subtle way, he totally screwed the premise/fallicy that national security required destruction of the tapes.
Journalists behaving as journalists . . . keep up the good work . . . we depend on you all.
December 9th, 2007 at 4:39 amComment by MiMiCcs — December 9, 2007 @ 2:56 am
Us “critters” are not afraid, not even of this administration, let alone by some made up terrorism threats.
December 9th, 2007 at 4:44 amIt’s bedtime . . . but one last comment.
The trend among reporters to report depending upon the wave of public support for any policy flies disturbs me. When Bush was banging the drums for war, doubters were silenced by threats of wearing the badge of “disloyalty.” We were not supported by an aggressive journalistic community. Journalists were either touting the war or they were absent for whatever reason. Bob Woodward, the Watergate hero, re-emerged with a book glorifying Bush. He later retraced his steps with a book crucifying Bush.
In my mind, Bob lost his. He knew that thousands of right wingers would buy a book glorifying Bush even though he knew his premise was false. He did it to make money. He then sought to redeem himself by publishing a book that appealed to liberals, in order to make money.
He has thereby covered all of his bases and accumulated all of the royalties possible from both bases.
This duplicity encompasses all that is wrong with political discourse today.
Bob . . . go f** yourself. You can’t have it both ways. We are not completely stupid. Make your buck, but my buck will f** you before I will ever be a sheep in your pasture of fans again. You screwed your legacy. What a shame.
December 9th, 2007 at 4:58 amF*** you, and not in a good way.
December 9th, 2007 at 5:07 amGermany was brought down by its bigfoot types, domestic terrorists and traitors. America can fight these little Nazis, and easily, as they are cowards and weak. We just need to be ready to take on our real enemies; the domestic traitors on the right wing antiAmerican side. American has far more to fear from the right than from the Islamists; the radical muslims wouldn’t have a chance without the cooperation of the Bush regime, that much is now completely clear to all patriotic Aemricans. 9/11 is on Bush and the right, we must bring them to justice for their incompetence and treason.
December 9th, 2007 at 8:27 am” The Justice Department and CIA announced they will conduct a joint . . .” white wash?
December 9th, 2007 at 11:46 amWell, face facts, Bushco marginalized the intelligence community from the start. Ignoring the clear warnings about 9/11 is what Bush will be historically known for. The 9/11 attacks are Bush’s to wear for the next 1000 years or more.
December 9th, 2007 at 12:05 pmAnd while we’re at it, let’s fly in 747s full of AK-47 waving insurgents to our malls as well.
Comment by Frank M
If you are referring to the recent shooting at Westroads Mall in Omaha, Frank M, then on behalf of my great hometown, as it still tries to come to grips with the horrendous tragedy, I would just like to say:
Go to hell.
That was caused by an AMERICAN CITIZEN, armed with a weapon that has no place outside of military use.
As for the CIA tapes, I just have a few questions:
How many thousands of hours of videotape does the CIA have on file of other interrogations?
How many documents describing interrogation techniques?
Will this information need to destroy all of these, just to be safe?
December 9th, 2007 at 4:00 pm