In June 1998, the Southern Baptist Convention issued a “statement on the family” that asserted, “A wife is to submit herself graciously to the servant leadership of her husband even as the church willingly submits to the headship of Christ.” Two months later, then-governor of Arkansas Mike Huckabee was one of 131 signatories to a full-page ad in USA Today specifically endorsing the Convention’s view on marriage:
You are right because you called wives to graciously submit to their husband’s sacrificial leadership.
As Andrew Sullivan notes, “The group did not back away from the ad after a media firestorm. It seems to me that Huckabee should be asked if he still stands by that. And if he thinks it applies to Senator Clinton.”
UPDATE: C&L has more.
I submit that Schmuckabee should “graciously shut the fluck up.”
December 11th, 2007 at 3:10 pmNow that’s a pre-911 mentality…the year 911, I mean.
December 11th, 2007 at 3:10 pmhttp://www.tshirtinsurgency.com
Poor Mrs. Huckabee has to submit to that wall-eyed flabbermiester.
I hope she takes Dramamine.
-GSD
December 11th, 2007 at 3:10 pmHuckabee: wives should ‘graciously submit’ to husbands
…But only up to, and including the missionary position. Anything else is an abomination.
December 11th, 2007 at 3:11 pmThe SBC is a terrorist organization.
December 11th, 2007 at 3:13 pmHuckabee: wives should ‘graciously submit’ to husbands
Translation –> when your horny hubby needs to get his rocks off, roll over and play dead.
December 11th, 2007 at 3:13 pmFrom the link embedded in the article above…
Today’s vote helps reinforce the image of Southern Baptists as staking out some of the most conservative positions among evangelical Protestants, a growing group who account for about a quarter of the American population
America, we just found the 24%ers. Now they want to make ‘congressionally approved’ Holidays.
How about a mandatory church attendance law? Yeah, that’ll work…
December 11th, 2007 at 3:15 pmHuckabee: wives should ‘graciously submit’ to husbands
Translation –> Men should rule the world.
December 11th, 2007 at 3:15 pmHow about this question Governor,
“Is it possible for a man to rape his wife, or is it simply not possible in your mind.”
Neanderthal much?
Oh religious indoctrination is fabulous.
December 11th, 2007 at 3:15 pmTranslation –> when your horny hubby needs to get his rocks off, roll over and play dead. -Comment by tom
Leave my ex-wife out of this, Tom!
December 11th, 2007 at 3:16 pmOne of the many reasons that I am not only no longer a Baptist (my family’s religion), but no longer a Christian. (Though I think Jesus was amazing. Just not the Church that developed after him. Too much anti-woman stuff in it. The same, actually with all the Abrahamic religions.)
December 11th, 2007 at 3:17 pmYup, zimzone. Now that you mention it, that sounds like my ex, too. Gee, I never knew that she was a Baptist. I just thought she was a lesbian.
lol
December 11th, 2007 at 3:18 pm“Gee you guys are all just mean antichristians. Wah. Wah.”
Sorry - A smart guy (and huck is, pretty much), in the interest of being realistic and sticking to his convictions, should have known that signing on to that would have some consequences, and made up his mind then whether or not he wanted to own it in the future.
December 11th, 2007 at 3:21 pmSo Huck’s a misogynist as well now?? Does he rape his wife when she’s not in the mood or has a headache? One has to wonder. Perhaps it’s more like “he owns her outright”?
December 11th, 2007 at 3:21 pm“Huckabee: wives should ‘graciously submit’ to husbands”
Barefoot and pregnant!
You might think that the repugs would be tired of loonies after Bush and his crew.
December 11th, 2007 at 3:22 pmtombaker: It’s turning out that Huckabee’s not really very astute or capable of making sound judgments, as we’re rapidly discovering.
December 11th, 2007 at 3:22 pmWhen will people stop allowing a book written centuries ago, a book that has countless contradictions (good luck trying to take the bible as “literal truth”) dictate their lives. Blind allegience to some god, especially one that “advocates” such a backward, immoral position is actually a sign of spiritual bankruptcy
December 11th, 2007 at 3:22 pmthe taliban are alive and well.
wanna bet this will have little or no impact with respect to his standing in the repugnican pres candidate pool? he’ll still be as popular as ever. that’s sad.
December 11th, 2007 at 3:22 pmreally sad!
No wonder Daryll loves this freak!
December 11th, 2007 at 3:23 pmFunny how an ageless, boundless and singular entity such as God seems to heap such scorn on half of his creation. It was just ONE little apple, Lord–You should be more forgiving.
December 11th, 2007 at 3:23 pmFritz: When extremism reaches it’s tenacles into one’s everyday life, this type of bondage of spouse is concomittant. It’s the supreme egomaniacal power trip! After all, if “His God” is the “real God”, then it makes him somehow above everyone else. Sadly fanatical.
December 11th, 2007 at 3:24 pmI wonder if Huckleberry listens to the same “spaghetti god in the sky” that Bush claims to hear??
December 11th, 2007 at 3:24 pmI wonder if this would also include:
Keep your mouth shut unless my Johnson is ready for it.
December 11th, 2007 at 3:25 pmMenehune: Many of us who hold a wider perspective of God already know that the God of the Old Testament, the punishing God was written into the Bible as a political tool.
If God is omnipresent, omnipotent, and omniscient, then how can he also be a punishing god? Doesn’t compute unless one is brainwashed.
December 11th, 2007 at 3:26 pmA wife is to submit herself graciously to the servant leadership of her husband even as the church willingly submits to the headship of Christ.â€
I’m pretty sure they aren’t talking about sex here guys. They are talking about a woman being subservant to her husband in all aspects of their lives together. This is typical of many Baptists. Their wives are their chattel to do with what they want and the wives have no rights in the relationship. She is there to serve her lord and master.
December 11th, 2007 at 3:26 pmRU: LOL - I love your sense of humor!
December 11th, 2007 at 3:26 pmI can’t believe your attacking Huckabee now. He is a horrible canidate that stands no chance in a general election. I would figure you would give him a pass until the generals. Anyways, I would like an answer to this question as well as this view is completely wrong. I truly hope more people hear about this nonsense Huck is spewing. He is wrong on this issue just like he was wrong when he raised taxes over and over.
December 11th, 2007 at 3:27 pmThe American Taleban!
December 11th, 2007 at 3:27 pmBilbo: Yesirree - it goes well beyond sexual appliction here. It’s misogyny at it’s finest - something which the catholic church has been accused of for centuries. I’m not at all surprised that Huckleberry believes women to be inferior. This is going to cost him dearly since most voters in New Hampshire are women! You’d think he’d have a little more polish and intelligence than to turn off the larges chunk of voters, wouldn’t you?
December 11th, 2007 at 3:28 pmThis last straw of Huckabee’s - the degradation of women - will take whatever little “surge” he’s had recently due to Giuliani’s closet of horrors (Sex In The City) and turn it completely around. I wouldn’t trust this man to take care of my dog for a weekend…geesh!
December 11th, 2007 at 3:29 pmFrank has apparently found a new dictionary meaning for the word ’submit’.
Funny stuff from the crowd that hated what the meaning of the word ‘is is’.
-GSD
Mrs. Chucklenuts said it really isn’t a task to submit to Mikes Tic-tac sized member.
December 11th, 2007 at 3:30 pmLeftside Annie: Very creative “Schmuckabee”. And very apropos as we’re learning, piece by ugly piece.
December 11th, 2007 at 3:30 pmVeritas,
I hope to hell you’re right, but again, it would not surprise me one iota if he maintains his popularity in the clown pool. we’re talking republican voters here!
December 11th, 2007 at 3:31 pmIt’s typical liberal spin. This means that wives should submit to their husbands while it is husband’s duty to protect and support her. Neither of them is subservient to the other. What is your problem with this arrangement?
Comment by Frank M — December 11, 2007 @ 3:28 pm
Because it’s medieval and barbaric and belongs in the 1300s. Besides that, absolutely nothing.
December 11th, 2007 at 3:33 pmNeither of them is subservient to the other.
Comment by Frank M — December 11, 2007 @ 3:28 pm
What part of
December 11th, 2007 at 3:33 pmsubmit herself graciously to the servant leadership of her husband
sounds like neither is subservient???
You’d think that one the Huckster’s campaign staff would take the gun out of his hand, now that he’s blown four toes off????
December 11th, 2007 at 3:35 pmOh yeah, a Theodemocracy is looking more and more likely. With juuuuuust a touch of irony, I say, God save us heathens.
December 11th, 2007 at 3:35 pmThis is why God invented headaches.
December 11th, 2007 at 3:36 pm29…my problem with that statement is, if my wife has a better bead on the horrible raving jihadi that has just broken down my door, I would like her to blow his f-in’ head off and not have to wait around for me to do it for her.
December 11th, 2007 at 3:36 pm“This means that wives should submit to their husbands while it is husband’s duty to protect and support her. Neither of them is subservient to the other.
Frank M”
Frank, look up submit and subservient and come back. idiot.
December 11th, 2007 at 3:37 pmThis will only matter if corporate news picks up on the story.
If the general public doesn’t know, it doesn’t matter what the truth is.
December 11th, 2007 at 3:38 pmWhat is the difference between a southern Baptist’s wife and his dog?
One is chained to porch and the other sticks his head out the window of the truck.
December 11th, 2007 at 3:38 pmIt’s typical liberal spin. This means that wives should submit to their husbands while it is husband’s duty to protect and support her. Neither of them is subservient to the other. What is your problem with this arrangement?
Comment by Frankkk M — December 11, 2007 @ 3:28 pm
Apparently reading comprehension is not your strong suit:
“You are right because you called wives to graciously submit to their husband’s sacrificial leadership.”
Still having difficulties, princess?
December 11th, 2007 at 3:38 pmHuckleberry Hound, Doggie Daddy & Auggie Doggie all agree that Baptists should graciously submit to reality.
December 11th, 2007 at 3:39 pmFrank M. - Poster-”boy” for GOPthink.
Atta-boy!
December 11th, 2007 at 3:39 pmWhy do these so called Religious Right candidates pick and chose what they want from the Bible. Mitt should be able to have many wives as Solomon did. Now Hillary isn’t suppose to be herself. What will if elected President Huckaberry say to the new President of Argentina who happens to be a woman and Hillary was her role model. Poor Karen Hughes said she was pushing Woman’s Rights but it seems the US paid her for nothing. As the other countries move forward in Equal Rights for Woman the US is last in line. Now when the truth about how independent Mrs. Huckaberry comes out the Preacher Man will again have egg on his face. Huck is just giving lip service to get the Bush Base Vote. We remember all the Pastors who said one thing and do the other. Mitt has got Larry Flynt mad now and who knows what will come out about Rich Mitt. These candidates have a history that would make Satan happy.
December 11th, 2007 at 3:40 pmFrank you must remember…this is an EXISTENTIAL STRUGGLE! Our women are going to have to know how to take down the crazed Islamofascist hordes same the men. Don’t you know, man–they are at our gates! We have no time for submission–that is tantamount to surrender.
December 11th, 2007 at 3:42 pm47, WTF?
December 11th, 2007 at 3:42 pmIt’s typical liberal spin. This means that wives should submit to their husbands while it is husband’s duty to protect and support her. Neither of them is subservient to the other. What is your problem with this arrangement?
Comment by Frank M — December 11, 2007 @ 3:28 pm
Uh huh. Men “protect and support,” while women “submit.”
I guess that’s working well for you since you’re not a woman.
December 11th, 2007 at 3:45 pmYou’re not a woman, are you?
This will only matter if corporate news picks up on the story.
Now is when we are really feeling the effect of the writers’ strike. The Huckster, GDumbya, Romney and the rest of the Keystone Kops are creating all this material but no one is around to process it for the true pundits of our time — Leno, Letterman, Stewart and Colbert.
The absence of this humorous commentary from the political scene will have profound consequences for us. We could actually end up with Huckleberry as a presidential nominee . . . but, then maybe that’s not so bad. Obama should have no trouble beating him.
December 11th, 2007 at 3:46 pmIt’s typical liberal spin. This means that wives should submit to their husbands while it is husband’s duty to protect and support her. Neither of them is subservient to the other. What is your problem with this arrangement?
Comment by Frank M — December 11, 2007 @ 3:28 pm
well frank, nothing if you get to be the husband. are you married frank? if you are do you get to be the husband in your committed relationship? please be truthful and don’t spin. that is if you really care about this subject and this isn’t just mental masturbation for you.
eh?
December 11th, 2007 at 3:46 pmHere is the latest from CNN, the Clinton News Network, which claims that Oprah doesn’t help Obama:
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/
December 11th, 2007 at 3:47 pmHuckabee’s tone is one of a seemingly decent guy, but when you hear his words, you have to wonder if he is really just a self-righteous lunatic.
December 11th, 2007 at 3:48 pmHe doesn’t believe in evolution.
He believes in the subservient position of women to men.
He believes that aids victims should be shunned and quarantined as lepers were in the time of Christ.
And contrary to the teachings of Christ, he took retribution on a relative of former Arkansan, Bill Clinton, and released her attacker, freeing him to attack and murder others.
People should think again before voting for him who would take us backward a few generations, if not a few centuries.
I’m sure that when Huckabee finds that his 1998 remarks (which, by the way, come from the mouth of many a conservative preacher as well) aren’t going to play well with mainstream America, he will qualify them somewhat. He may even claim he was quoting somebody else.
After all — he changed his position on Cuba. He can change his position on this, too.
On the other hand, if he doesn’t go the hypocrisy route and stands by his beliefs, he will get points for his sincerity on that one. Not votes, but a few admiration points.
December 11th, 2007 at 3:48 pmMy cousin “graciously submitted†to this woman one time that followed him home from the bar. He claims the night was filled with fun and frivolity. He still has the scabs to prove it. Some people find it exciting to be the “sub†in their little games……..so I have heard.
Comment by Billy Hill — December 11, 2007 @ 3:41 pm
i didn’t know frank m was your cousin. do you guys get together over the holidays?
December 11th, 2007 at 3:49 pmWhere can I get one of these Southern Baptist women???
Kidding. My wife is a very strong person - I think I would get really bored, really quickly with a submissive wife.
Huckabee is a typical WEAK, FEARFUL Republiscum. He couldn’t handle a strong woman.
December 11th, 2007 at 3:51 pmTo Frank, there is either female submission or domination. He isn’t able to conceive of an equal partnership where both the man and the woman can support and protect each other. He’s a real fraidy. Scared of Muslims. Scared of women.
December 11th, 2007 at 3:51 pmHere is the latest from CNN, the Clinton News Network, which claims that Oprah doesn’t help Obama:
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — December 11, 2007 @ 3:47 pm
What does this have to do with Huckabee?
What does this have to do with wives graciously submitting to their husbands?
What does this have to do with Southern Baptists?
You want to stick to the topic?
December 11th, 2007 at 3:52 pmHere is the latest from CNN, the Clinton News Network, which claims that Oprah doesn’t help Obama:
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — December 11, 2007 @ 3:47 pm
kind of ot, jas. can’t you think of single argument or fact to defend ol’ “huck” huckabee?
(it’s ok, neither can billy or frank m and they’re experts)
December 11th, 2007 at 3:52 pmI don’t know if you can read my profile I wrote when I registered here, but yes. I am married and have two kids.
Comment by Frank M — December 11, 2007 @ 3:50 pm
is your wife faithful to you frank?
December 11th, 2007 at 3:54 pmIt’s typical liberal spin. This means that wives should submit to their husbands while it is husband’s duty to protect and support her. Neither of them is subservient to the other. What is your problem with this arrangement?
Comment by Frank M — December 11, 2007 @ 3:28 pm
1 Corinthians 14:34 - 35*
34. Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
Titus 2:3 - 5*
5 [To be] discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.
It’s not liberal spin. The sexism that the bible promotes is real and right there in your holy book that’s sitting on your lap every sunday.
The thing I find is that few christians have read the whole, bible.
December 11th, 2007 at 3:54 pmI am married and have two kids.
Comment by Frank M — December 11, 2007 @ 3:50 pm
So?
December 11th, 2007 at 3:55 pmI’m very surprised Daryll hasn’t shown up yet! Quotes like this are right up his alley! That cult.. I mean church that he belongs to basically thinks that women should be seen and not heard.
Is it my imagination or are we regressing as a society these days?
December 11th, 2007 at 3:56 pmWho cares. Huckleberry doesn’t stand a snowball’s chance in hell of winning the election. It would be hilarious if he was nominated, however.
December 11th, 2007 at 3:56 pmAnd you just had to leave out the bits that define man’s duties.
Comment by Frank M — December 11, 2007 @ 3:55 pm
Want to define them for us?
December 11th, 2007 at 3:57 pmForget the Stepford women guys! Go with the wild free thinking ones. Leave the mushhead drone ladies to the meathead men.
And you just had to leave out the bits that define man’s duties.
Comment by Frank M — December 11, 2007 @ 3:55 pm
so did you. or don’t you know them?
eh?
December 11th, 2007 at 3:58 pmMarital Rape is illegal in this country. If a woman chooses not to “submit herself graciously,” but her husband has sex with her anyway, then he’s guilty of rape.
Huckabee released Dumond, a convicted rapist, from prison, allowing him to rape again.
Does Huckabee condone rape?
December 11th, 2007 at 3:58 pm#53: I don’t know if you can read my profile I wrote when I registered here, but yes. I am married and have two kids.
Comment by Frank M — December 11, 2007 @ 3:50 pm
Considering the pre-Enlightenment posts you have made, I truly feel sorry for them….no one should be brought up in a house filled with such insular, provincial, close-minded views
December 11th, 2007 at 3:59 pmjason?
jason… ?
December 11th, 2007 at 3:59 pmRemember Huckabee, sexism, hatred, and bigotry are not family values. I’m not even Christian and I celebrate the teachings of Moses and Jesus Christ with more conviction than a spineless politician who wears his faith on his sleeve could muster.
December 11th, 2007 at 3:59 pm#49: Didn’t you get it? A little bit of S&M and female domination. That’s what liberal men seem to like - they’re even voting for a female president to fulfill those fantasies in a more abstract sense.
Comment by Frank M
Ever heard of something called equality?
December 11th, 2007 at 3:59 pmWe fight them over there so that Republicans can elect them here.
December 11th, 2007 at 4:00 pmFrank M, in case you haven’t noticed, is our troll du jour, no doubt assigned by the RNC. Ignore him.
December 11th, 2007 at 4:00 pmFrank ‘M Billy,
Yes, I’m aware of S&M.
In fact, Bush has tortured America for nearly 7 years, and I’m getting sick of it.
Stop the Torture! Impeach!
December 11th, 2007 at 4:01 pmEphesians 5:22 - 25*
22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body
Ephesians 5:22 - 25*
22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body
Here it is. Hmmm… seems to say the same thing.
And I get what you’re trying to say about men protecting the wife or whatever, but that doesn’t really change anything does it?
December 11th, 2007 at 4:02 pmEver heard of something called equality?
Comment by DigDug — December 11, 2007 @ 3:59 pm
In FrankWorld it only applies to men.
December 11th, 2007 at 4:02 pmwhat does mrs. huckabee think of all of this? (and i don’t mean his mother.)
December 11th, 2007 at 4:02 pmIt’s typical liberal spin. This means that wives should submit to their husbands while it is husband’s duty to protect and support her. Neither of them is subservient to the other. What is your problem with this arrangement?
Comment by Frank M
Wives “submitting” to their husbands is not subservient?
You are a complete an utter IDIOT!
December 11th, 2007 at 4:02 pmUnfortunately, this topic always gets intentionally misinterpreted to get woman upset at Christians / conservatives / Republicans.
It is easier to talk in the opposite sense, that a house divided against itself cannot stand. That is to say, that one or the other spouse should NOT behave in a subversive manner to the other’s goals / happiness. In feminist America, women are taught that the ONLY strong women are those who DEFY men’s goals / happiness, when, as portrayed in the movie 300, women can be strong AND support their husbands.
December 11th, 2007 at 4:02 pmHuckabee: wives should ‘graciously submit’ to husbands.
December 11th, 2007 at 4:03 pmWhat race/kind is making these statements? The same with Christian values in which saw no problem with slavery or the massacre of Indians to steal land?
Baptist women used to have to “graciously submit” to their husbands . . . but 9/11 changed everything.
lol
December 11th, 2007 at 4:04 pmUnfortunately, this topic always gets intentionally misinterpreted to get woman upset at Christians / conservatives / Republicans.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler
No… the bible is pretty specific on this.
Titus 2:3 - 5*
5 [To be] discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.
And that is just one quote of MANY.
December 11th, 2007 at 4:05 pmIn feminist America, women are taught that the ONLY strong women are those who DEFY men’s goals / happiness, when, as portrayed in the movie 300, women can be strong AND support their husbands.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — December 11, 2007 @ 4:02 pm
Jason,
Go to your room!
December 11th, 2007 at 4:05 pmIn feminist America, women are taught that the ONLY strong women are those who DEFY men’s goals / happiness, when, as portrayed in the movie 300, women can be strong AND support their husbands.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — December 11, 2007 @ 4:02 pm
We strong and supportive women don’t appreciate being lectured by a virgin.
December 11th, 2007 at 4:05 pm“submit to…sacrificial leadership”? Abraham & Isaac spring immediately to my mind.
I guess this give us an idea of how a Huckabee administration would react to the scandals (co-eds being raped their classmates) at the US air Force Academy in ultra-religious Colorado Springs, Colorado; and KBR’s gang rape of the 22 year-old woman in Iraq; and the female troops being raped by their comrads in Iraq; and etc.
December 11th, 2007 at 4:06 pmHuckleberry Mayberry should graciously submit to the fact Baptist theological practices make the Spanish Inquisition look ‘modern’.
December 11th, 2007 at 4:06 pmFeminism: The radical notion that women are people.
December 11th, 2007 at 4:07 pmWe strong and supportive women don’t appreciate being lectured by a virgin.
Zooey, I appreciate the point that you are trying to make but please remember that Jason has a daily date with his hand. He’s not really a virgin unless, of course, you are excluding sex without a partner.
December 11th, 2007 at 4:08 pmNow the mighty Right reveals itself as merely a new version of the “He-Man-Woman-Haters-Club”
December 11th, 2007 at 4:09 pmHe’s not really a virgin unless, of course, you are excluding sex without a partner.
Comment by tom — December 11, 2007 @ 4:08 pm
Heh.
December 11th, 2007 at 4:10 pmFeminism: The radical notion that women are people.
Comment by Frosty Cupcake — December 11, 2007 @ 4:07 pm
Here’s my favorite feminist quote:
People call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that differentiate me from a doormat or prostitute.
December 11th, 2007 at 4:12 pm–Rebecca West
It is easier to talk in the opposite sense, that a house divided against itself cannot stand. That is to say, that one or the other spouse should NOT behave in a subversive manner to the other’s goals / happiness. In feminist America, women are taught that the ONLY strong women are those who DEFY men’s goals / happiness, when, as portrayed in the movie 300, women can be strong AND support their husbands.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — December 11, 2007 @ 4:02 pm
What can anyone say to someone who bolsters their arguments with references to a CARTOON based on a culture from 500 BC?
December 11th, 2007 at 4:12 pmas portrayed in the movie 300, women can be strong AND support their husbands.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — December 11, 2007 @ 4:02 pm
“Why can’t women be more like that movie with all those sweaty, strong, barely clothed men?” I see where Jason is coming from now, 300 is his dream world
December 11th, 2007 at 4:12 pmwhen, as portrayed in the movie 300, women can be strong AND support their husbands.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — December 11, 2007 @ 4:02 pm
Listen Jason M. Dipshit until you have some personal experience on the subject and no longer have to cite a movie why don’t you just shut the hell up and go back to cleaning your mother’s basement.
December 11th, 2007 at 4:12 pmThis is typical of many Baptists. Their wives are their chattel to do with what they want and the wives have no rights in the relationship. She is there to serve her lord and master.
Comment by bilbobaggins — December 11, 2007 @ 3:26 pm
The Rest of the Story
The NYT stories references, but doesn’t quote, Ephesians 5:22-25 which the source of the Pauline directive. I think a few more verses are in order to get the full impact of the directives.
The following is Ephesians 5: 22-33, and this doesn’t make the wife sound like “chattel†to me.
As usual this scripture, while good advice to anyone, will not have much meaning to someone who doesn’t believe in Christ.
Highlights:
Wives are instructed to submit.
Husbands are instructed to love their wives, and this is used as an illustration of the relationship between Christ and the Church, which, at the very least, puts the comparison in the profound category. With the emphases, “In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church—â€
Wives are instructed to respect her husband.
Seems to me if these characteristics were found in more marriages there would be more happy marriages.
Some of the best advice I ever got from a Sunday School teacher: “Your children will learn how to treat their spouses from the way you love you wife.â€
Elsewhere…
There are directives that a wife’s body is for the husband, and that a husband’s body is for the wife.
Verse 31 is almost a direct quote of Christ speaking in Matthew 19. This is where Christ remarks on the Creator’s intent that a man and a woman be “one flesh†in a marriage.
Don’t believe these are the words of a misogynist.
December 11th, 2007 at 4:13 pm#89, Zooey,
I would expect nothing less from you than some emasculating quip to contradict your claim of “strong and supportive of men” - thanks for not disappointing me.
December 11th, 2007 at 4:14 pmJust to add to the ick factor keep in mind that Huckleberry was packing an extra 110 lbs. when he signed this little ditty. And I’ve seen his wife, she’s no Jackie Kennedy. She’s not even any Barbara Bush. Enough said.
December 11th, 2007 at 4:14 pmWhat makes you think that I’m getting paid for this anyway?
Comment by Frank M — December 11, 2007 @ 4:05 pm
because five bucks is five bucks and we figure you’d do anything for that.
btw, i saw “300″. they were spartans. not christians. you can rent it on dvd if you don’t believe me.
December 11th, 2007 at 4:15 pmNotice to all Repuke women everywhere:
1) If you are married, stay married, at all costs.
2) If you are unmarried, find yourself a “good” Christian man, have kids, and stay at home, devoting every ounce of energy to making life as pleasant as possible for your husband, and with whatever resources that remain, your children.
3) Should your husband express any dissatisfaction toward you in any way, shape or form, remember — whatever it is, it is your fault.
4) If you have a job or a career, resign immediately. Continuing to work would undoubtedly interfere with your ability to take proper care of your husband and children.
5) If you have a job or career, resign immediately. Continuing to work demonstrates a glaring lack of faith — both in your husband’s ability to provide with you and your family, and a lack of faith that your Creator will ensure that your husband succeeds in doing so.
6) Never forget that if you cheat on your husband, that is because you have a character defect. Additionally, never forget that if your husband cheats on you, that is because you have a character defect.
7) Work to repeal the right of women to vote in this country — after all your vote would simply duplicate that of your husband’s.
8) To reduce the risk of reverting to sins of the flesh, remember that modesty with regard to dress and attire are required at all times. For expert guidance in this area, you may wish to take a trip to Saudi Arabia (accompanied by your husband, of course). The women’s fashions and customs there can easily be adapted to our country.
9) Remember that if you vote for a women for public office, you are contributing to her absence from her home — her only rightful place.
10) Work to rewrite the history books so that your children will never be tempted to revert to aspects of life as it existed in the 1900s (when they ask about the 1960s, just tell them that nothing happened during that time).
And, last but not least — Go forth and sin no more!
Note: The preceding does not reflect the personal views of this writer.
December 11th, 2007 at 4:16 pmPresident-Elect Huckabee butters my beans. I truly like this man as President.
Comment by Daryll — December 11, 2007 @ 4:15 pm
I thought you were off “buttering your beans” in Rio, Daryll. Is this something that involves sun tan lotion?
December 11th, 2007 at 4:16 pmI used a movie reference, because it is one of the rare public portrayals of a very strong woman supporting her man.
December 11th, 2007 at 4:17 pmDid someone actually just use a computer generated movie to try and make a point. This was an adult right? See in this cartoon there is this girl Lucy and she is very aggressive and bossy and does things her way and expects others to just follow along. So despite being a child in a cartoon, I think we might all wish to use this nonreality as a construct for reality
December 11th, 2007 at 4:17 pmFrank M must really have a thing for the dominant woman. I mean, he must have had an encounter with a domme back in the day and she scared him for life, so he buys into Huckabee’s little routine about women’s place being in the kitchen on her hands and knees for her husband. Or is it that he is one of the group he claims is awaiting for the S&M goodness of a Clinton presidency? Hey, Frank…the image of Hillary in bondage gear turning you on?
(*shudder at the mental image*)
What ever floats your boat or sinks your submarine, dude.
December 11th, 2007 at 4:17 pmComment by bitblt — December 11, 2007 @ 4:13 pm
Has anybody told you lately where you can shove that bible?
December 11th, 2007 at 4:18 pmWe strong and supportive women don’t appreciate being lectured by a virgin.
Comment by Zooey — December 11, 2007 @ 4:05 pm
JAS, YOU’RE A VIRGIN?!
December 11th, 2007 at 4:18 pmI used a movie reference, because it is one of the rare public portrayals of a very strong woman supporting her man.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — December 11, 2007 @ 4:17 pm
You sure it’s not just because it’s the only movie you’ve watched in the last two years?
December 11th, 2007 at 4:18 pmI do believe GOD created woman kind from Adam’s side. I was always taught that this means Adam should love and cherish his wife as Christ
cherished the Church.
If God would have taken Eve from his feet then he could walk all over her. If God would have taken Eve from his head then she could rule over him but
He took her from a rib out of his side so that they could walk together and compliment each other.
I think men and women have complementing roles. A mas should rule his family in love. He is the head of the household which means God expects him to be the “fall guy” he is in charge. A woman normally is in charge of the home but both a man and a woman love and care for the burdens each carries.
Maybe I am old fashioned but I like a man who is going to be a man:
love me
respect me
care for me
and protect me…
as I will do the same for him.
I would honor my husband as he would honor me as his wife.
I guess I would rather be a person who respect the laws of God which are so wonderfully displayed in nature.
I think women are not equal to men in every way. In some ways we are better equip … men cant take as much pain as we can, they can’t multi task like we can and most women are more sensitive then men.
Anyway… that’s my June Cleaver beliefs…
December 11th, 2007 at 4:19 pmPresident-Elect Huckabee butters my beans. I truly like this man as President.
Comment by Daryll — December 11, 2007 @ 4:15 pm
Soupris, souprise, souprise, Gomer Pyle. And just when we thought we had the dumbest of the dumb trolls commenting along comes the wiener, I mean winner.
December 11th, 2007 at 4:20 pmI used a movie reference, because it is one of the rare public portrayals of a very strong woman supporting her man.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — December 11, 2007 @ 4:17 pm
but she was a spartan women. so what you really would like to do is elect a spartan instead of christian. someone like… um, rush limbaugh, right?
December 11th, 2007 at 4:21 pmIt’s a hypothesis of mine that the 24%ers are indeed made up of many fanatical christians.
Otherwise, as the topic here, Huck was a Southern Baptist preacher. These concepts, like a woman should graciously submit to their husbands, gays are immoral and responsible for AIDs as it’s a consequence of their sins, etc etc… are the reason that as soon as I turned 18 and moved out of my parents house I never went back to the church.
However, does ones religous beliefs recuse one from being President? I guess that’s for the People to decide.
December 11th, 2007 at 4:21 pmI would expect nothing less from you than some emasculating quip to contradict your claim of “strong and supportive of men†- thanks for not disappointing me.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — December 11, 2007 @ 4:14 pm
If that’s all it takes to emasculate you, I consider that a win.
December 11th, 2007 at 4:21 pmPresident-Elect Huckabee butters my beans.
Comment by Daryll — December 11, 2007 @ 4:15 pm
In a public restroom, no doubt.
December 11th, 2007 at 4:22 pmA Southern Baptist Convention member will never get elected in this county. Just look at a few of their adherents that have tried…Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton and Al Gore. Never happen, ever.
Comment by Beefeater — December 11, 2007 @ 3:37 pm
Martin Luther King was a Southern Baptist Convention member and not just a Baptist church goer. He doesn’t show any resemblence to Huckleberry either does he.
December 11th, 2007 at 4:22 pmPresident-Elect Huckabee butters my beans. I truly like this man as President.
Comment by Daryll — December 11, 2007 @ 4:15 pm
Daryll, Did God tell you Mr. Huckabee was going to be nominated? BTW: you need to phrase your support better. See you and I both know you are not real and those deliberately throw out these sorts of statements to get people to respond as you know they will. I admit I find it super amusing but the novelty is starting to wane as the schtick is becoming way too transparent
December 11th, 2007 at 4:22 pmPresident-Elect Huckabee butters my beans. I truly like this man as President.
Comment by Daryll — December 11, 2007 @ 4:15 pm
TMI
December 11th, 2007 at 4:24 pmAnyway… that’s my June Cleaver beliefs…
Comment by starteam144 — December 11, 2007 @ 4:19 pm
Obviously June you’ve never been married.
December 11th, 2007 at 4:27 pmOh and Daryll that’s not your beans Huckleberry’s buttering, dumbass.
December 11th, 2007 at 4:28 pmAnother week of “Governor Biblebee” revelations, and the support for our Wise and Fair Founders’ Incredible Foresight In Separating Church and State will be unanimous.
December 11th, 2007 at 4:29 pmPresident-Elect Huckabee butters my beans.
Comment by Daryll — December 11, 2007 @ 4:15 pm
The Last Tango in Paris as performed by Mike and Daryll.
December 11th, 2007 at 4:31 pmPrecious!
Comment by Daryll — December 11, 2007 @ 4:15 pm
In a public restroom, no doubt.
Comment by LividLib — December 11, 2007 @ 4:22 pm
i wondered what that “butter beans” thing meant. it’s republican rest room talk for sex, huh? is daryll saying that “huck” huckabee is into that kind of stuff?
daryll?!
December 11th, 2007 at 4:32 pmIs Jason ambidexterous or monogomous?
Does the right hand know what the left hand is doing?
December 11th, 2007 at 4:33 pmWanna see a page from the Christian Reich’s playbook?
If so, check this out: http://www.nobeliefs.com/speeches.htm
At least 99% of you will be astounded — guaranteed.
December 11th, 2007 at 4:35 pmJason, Olive Oil always supported her man Popeye too. Why not cite their relationship as one we all should aspire to. Popeye is a miltitary man as well. Maybe you’re concerned about his spinich abuse? Or is it that Olive and Popeye had Sweet Pea out of wedlock?
December 11th, 2007 at 4:36 pmI guess I would rather be a person who respect the laws of God which are so wonderfully displayed in nature.
Comment by starteam144 — December 11, 2007 @ 4:19 pm
As An evolutionary biologist who is focused on the animal behavior as it relates to mating systems, I would be very interested in having you spell out that which you think you see.
December 11th, 2007 at 4:36 pmi think we’ve lost jason.
jas?
jas?
December 11th, 2007 at 4:38 pmIt looks like starstream likes to watch animals have sex. Weird, but what does one expect from a republican. At least starstream isn’t trying to join the party.
December 11th, 2007 at 4:38 pmJason’s mom needed the computer for a while. He’ll be back after dinner.
December 11th, 2007 at 4:39 pmi think we’ve lost jason.
jas?
jas?
Comment by joe cantwell — December 11, 2007 @ 4:38 pm
Can you lose that which you’ve never really wanted?
December 11th, 2007 at 4:42 pmAt least starstream isn’t trying to join the party.
Comment by Bobwurst — December 11, 2007 @ 4:38 pm
Uh, don’t bet on it.
December 11th, 2007 at 4:42 pmComment by Bobwurst — December 11, 2007 @ 4:38 pm
If they have been actually paying attention, they would have noticed that monogamy is essentially unheard of in most animal systems and if they ment the birds that quaint little story has been blown out of the water by modern DNA work. Can anyone say sneak copulation?
December 11th, 2007 at 4:48 pmHas anybody told you lately where you can shove that bible?
Comment by Shayne — December 11, 2007 @ 4:18 pm
Actually, no, and
actually the quoted scripture is from http://www.bible.com NIV translation, and guess what, I have no idea where it is…physically. However, I know spiritually that the Book is well embedded in million and million of hearts.
Perhaps you’d be happier not reading bitblt post.
December 11th, 2007 at 4:50 pmre 138
you can always insert your computer….
December 11th, 2007 at 4:51 pmand by insert, I mean shove it up your ass.
December 11th, 2007 at 4:51 pmI know spiritually that the Book is well embedded in million and million of hearts.
Comment by bitblt — December 11, 2007 @ 4:50 pm
“does a million and million make a brazillian?”
-GWB
December 11th, 2007 at 4:53 pmFor more background on Mike Huckabee the dangerous extremist and radical reactionary, see:
December 11th, 2007 at 4:53 pm“Top 10 Moments in Mike Huckabee’s Extremism.”
Perhaps you’d be happier not reading bitblt post.
Comment by bitblt — December 11, 2007 @ 4:50 pm
No as I said earlier I’d be happier if you take your bible and shove it. When I want to go to church I’ll go to church. You fundamentalists are a menace to society.
December 11th, 2007 at 4:55 pm“in million and million of hearts.”
“In MILLION and MILLION”???
Perhaps if bitblt could write, folks could read what bitblt say…
December 11th, 2007 at 4:56 pmI know spiritually that the Book is well embedded in million and million of hearts.
Comment by bitblt — December 11, 2007 @ 4:50 pm
As is the Koran. Why don’t you quote a little of that, Fundie#1?
December 11th, 2007 at 4:57 pmI know spiritually that the Book is well embedded in million and million of hearts.
Comment by bitblt — December 11, 2007 @ 4:50 pm
Sure it is as are the scriptures/words of all religions. What’s your point?
December 11th, 2007 at 5:02 pm21:18 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: (21:18-21)
If you have a “stubborn and rebellious son,” then you and the other men in your neighborhood “shall stone him with stones that he die.”
What the Bible says about children and stoning
Biblical Justice: Everybody must get stoned
The Christopher Hitchens / Douglas Wilson debate
Theologikos: Advice for all christians (and atheists) on YouTube
Test yourself: Are you intelligent or stupid? The Holy Test!
When to Stone Your Children
Deuteronomy
21:19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;
21:20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
21:21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.
So bibblt, can we assume that you would stone your children to death if they were unruly?
December 11th, 2007 at 5:02 pmIt’ll be a great day when there are more posts of quotes from the Constitution than there are posts with quotes from the Bible.
If we Americans could direct the fervor we do toward religious notions toward our civic institutions instead, what an advanced and admirable society we could have.
And we could do all that without asking anyone to forsake there faith, whatever it may be.
December 11th, 2007 at 5:06 pmi think we’ve lost jason.
jas?
jas?
Comment by joe cantwell — December 11, 2007 @ 4:38 pm
Can you lose that which you’ve never really wanted?
Comment by Shayne — December 11, 2007 @ 4:42 pm
jas is a funny guy once you get to know him. and, like “huck” huckabee he does a better job of proving your point then the people who agree with you!
December 11th, 2007 at 5:07 pmagreed tombaker, we are a nation of laws, not gods. the fundies can go to iran if they want a theocracy.
December 11th, 2007 at 5:08 pmoops - s/b “their” - now I blew my “high-sounding rhetorical proclamation” - dammit!
December 11th, 2007 at 5:08 pmre 151
its ok u kan mspll awl thee werds ewe wuant hear az loung az wie kan rede you’re righting.
December 11th, 2007 at 5:10 pmPretty goddamn good Bobwurst, that’s harder than it looks.
The “goddamn” part is thrown in to keep the post on topic, not purely gratuitous.
December 11th, 2007 at 5:25 pmIf I recall the scriptures correctly, I think it’s a Christian’s duty to kill anyone who tries to talk to them about other religions.
What the freaks don’t realize is that their proclamation of War Against Religious Extremists puts them on the same side of the battlefield as Osama. Christian fundies are as bad as the Muslim fundies.
And my God, Poseidon, could kick the living shit out of Muhammed or the Bearded Wonder in a cage fight. Or both at the same time.
December 11th, 2007 at 5:33 pmMy wife and I are fighting over the keyboard right now…..YOU SOB….I didn’t type that, she did..
December 11th, 2007 at 5:43 pmLooks like huckabee and osama have been comparing notes.
December 11th, 2007 at 5:45 pmComment by wisedup — December 11, 2007 @ 5:43 pm
Mrs wisedup, please submit to your husband like a good little woman.
:-D
December 11th, 2007 at 5:46 pmHuckabee: wives should ‘graciously submit’ to husbands
Poor Mrs. Huckleberry must have a very sore butt.
Man, I just hate neanderturds, what sexist pigs they are.
Bush/Cheney/Frank Moron
Hague Trials ‘09
Buck Fush
December 11th, 2007 at 5:50 pmI guess I could have used Hill’reh as example, except I don’t believe it is right for a person to personally destroy the victims of their spouse’s sexual assaults.
December 11th, 2007 at 6:14 pmand then JMH came full-cicle at last - right back to fringe conspiracy theories involving the clintons - good show, jmh!, you’re a true-blue dittohead.
December 11th, 2007 at 6:21 pmspouse’s sexual assaults.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — December 11, 2007 @ 6:14
How hard is it to spell Hillary?
December 11th, 2007 at 6:51 pmAs an aging and wise matriarch…it is ruled that all foolish men should submit graciously to me.
It precedes christianity, islamic and judaic rule of women as possessions (heads covered and not contaminating the purity of men or being relegated to the other side of the wall) that women should really be the rulers of the household and community as they are much wiser in the ways of love and caring and cooperation…and without us, frankly, you would screw yourselves (pardon the language) into oblivion.
Some men are best at building a shelter, a rocket ship to get the h out of here, or bringing home the triceratop steaks. Some men are so insecure and secretly afraid of women that they seek to dominate and control us. Other men are at their best as lovers. Personally I prefer the later.
December 11th, 2007 at 7:28 pmIf that’s all it takes to emasculate you, I consider that a win.
Comment by Zooey — December 11, 2007 @ 4:21 pm
An easy win, given the lack of equipment that Jason “the virgin” Hitler demonstrates with every jealous Clinton post.
December 11th, 2007 at 7:46 pmActually, its likely good advice for wives to have a traditional role in the family and submit to their husband’s leadership. The religious families that I know have much nicer family relations than the bitter progressives that I know. Perhaps just a coincidence, but from what I’ve seen, religious families generally get along better than progressive families. Family values still hold true.
December 12th, 2007 at 1:18 pmKeep the religion. I’ll take my wife as is over some myth any day.
December 12th, 2007 at 3:44 pmIt seems the right wing nutjobs are here.
December 12th, 2007 at 3:45 pmActually, its likely good advice for wives to have a traditional role in the family and submit to their husband’s leadership. The religious families that I know have much nicer family relations than the bitter progressives that I know. Perhaps just a coincidence, but from what I’ve seen, religious families generally get along better than progressive families. Family values still hold true.
Comment by ClintonWasImpeachedAndDisbarred — December 12, 2007 @ 1:18 pm
Recommend (0) | Report Abuse
The born again, religious “families” were the most dysfunctional and confused people I have met. The single mommies would go down on you after church. Jesus made them horny I guess.
December 12th, 2007 at 3:50 pmI’ve never seen so much studity in one place before. You people call yourselves “Think Progress” yet there’s is nearly no thinking going on here, and even less progress.
January 12th, 2008 at 9:01 am