Arctic summers may be ice-free by 2013.
By on Dec 12th, 2007 at 9:55 pm
Arctic summers may be ice-free by 2013.
In one of the most “dramatic forecasts yet for the disappearance of Arctic sea ice,” Professor Wieslaw Maslowski told an American Geophysical Union meeting that the “latest modelling studies indicate northern polar waters could be ice-free in summers within just 5-6 years. … Summer melting this year reduced the ice cover to 4.13 million sq km, the smallest ever extent in modern times.”
View Most Popular
Advertisement
Visit Our Affiliated Sites
What We're About
What We're Fighting For
What We're Fighting Against
Featured
Subscribe to the Progress Report
Got a hot tip?
Have a hot news tip? We'd love to hear from you. Use the form below to send us the latest.
Reports
In depth studies on select topics
Topic CloudView topics sorted by popularity
Afghanistan
Bailout
Big Oil
Bolton
Bush
Cheney
Civil Rights
Congress
Earmarks
Economy
Energy
Environment
Ethics
Fox News
GI Bill
Global Warming
Guantanamo
Health Care
Immigration
International Relations
Iran
Iraq
Justice
Kristol
LGBT
Lieberman
Limbaugh
McCain
McClellan
Media
Military
O'Hanlon
O'Reilly
Obama
Palin
Politics
Race
Radical Right
RNC Convention
Rove
Terrorism
Third Bush Term
Torture
Veterans
Women's Rights
ArchivesBlog Roll
But it is a natural cycle!!!!!
December 12th, 2007 at 9:58 pmYa but thats what Jesus wants !!!!
And I DO NOT want to answer that question !
December 12th, 2007 at 10:07 pm…or I can’t lift my arm over my second fat fold.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:10 pmFinally, the coveted Northern passage!
December 12th, 2007 at 10:11 pmBut Bush, and Fox, and everyone says there is no such thing — they all say Gore is exaggerating for his own self aggrandizement.
Could they be wrong - and Gore is right? OMG!
It’s extremely unfortunate that the pundits and politicians of the rightwing are so focused on their own political agenda, and that of the dimwit, George Bush, that they are blind to the evidence that science has provided.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:14 pmThey truly are like political ostriches with their heads in the sand.
We are probably facing a global catastrophe if we don’t all agree to try to reverse the process, and ignoramuses like the rightwingers are obstacles to the world. They value their lemming-like loyalty, their political partisanship and their own pride before they would admit that they have been mistaken.
Apparently they believe that their progeny won’t be affected - or that the spirit in the sky that they worship will reward them in their afterlife.
“Finally, the coveted Northern passage!”
You see, AGW, (which isn’t happening, but if it is, it’s a natural cycle, and if humans are causing it, we can’t stop it), isn’t all that bad!
December 12th, 2007 at 10:14 pmThey’re worried about the war on Christmas - they should be worried about the war on science.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:15 pmLet’s send Fred Thompson up there in a canoe to check it out.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:15 pmCapt - you can serve as his first mate.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:16 pmyou really do your side proud billy.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:20 pmh’yuk! Hendler, the village idiot, has returned. Nothing worse than a pretend skeptic.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:20 pm“2013? Hummm lets see here B. Whosane O’Bomba will just be starting his second term.”
You are almost as clever as Rush. No, stop smiling, that isn’t a compliment.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:22 pmif your not a polar bear.
Comment by Billy Hill — December 12, 2007 @ 10:18 pm
If my not a polar bear what?
December 12th, 2007 at 10:23 pmThey’re worried about the war on Christmas - they should be worried about the war on science.
Comment by Marcus Aurelius — December 12, 2007 @ 10:15 pm
You mean the war on dry land ?
December 12th, 2007 at 10:25 pmYou know the rules, Hillybilly: “You must be quiet when the adults are talking grown up things”.
Back under the double wide. There’s a nice cold bottle of T-bird waiting, and no, you can’t have that nasty Hendler boy over. Have we forgotten what happened last time he was here? Your mother had to throw those bed sheets out!
December 12th, 2007 at 10:29 pmYou mean the war on dry land ?
Comment by overlap — December 12, 2007 @ 10:25 pm
Ha! in the trolls’ case, it’s more like the War on Dry Sheets!
December 12th, 2007 at 10:30 pmBilly and Rush think the extinction of polar bears is funny. Go figure, they also think that Gutbomb guy is funny.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:37 pmIn a Republican world outing covert agents is good, the environment is there to be raped, a weak dollar helps the economy, record setting deficits are suddenly a good thing… bills need not ever be paid, it’s even ok for U.S. soldiers to be tortured if it’s part of protecting the Pres.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:48 pmThat is just stupid, Billy. You try to be clever but you fall far short.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:53 pmYou try to be clever but you fall far short.
Comment by Sabyen91 — December 12, 2007 @ 10:53 pm
Far, far, far short….
December 12th, 2007 at 10:54 pm6. http://www.time.com/ time/ magazine/ article/ 0,9171,980050,00.html
Comment by CaptainMantastic —
Give me a break, first of all, posting an article from 1994 by a Science Journalist no less, not a scientist or expert on the subject, a journalist.
Secondly, in 1994 computers did not have the processing power that they have today, if memory serves me correctly, this was about the time of the 66MHz Pentium was introduced, have you ever heard of Moore’s Law? This means that computers and the subsequent “computer models” back then could be no where near as powerful (I tend to translate that to also mean “accurate”) as they are today.
For what it may be worth to you, Professor Wieslaw Maslowski, is a Research Associate Professor, Department of Oceanography, Graduate School of Engineering and Applied Sciences, Naval Postgraduate School, Monterey, CA.
His research interest include: Arctic Oceanography, Numerical Ocean and Sea Ice Modeling, Ocean General Circulation, Climate Change. He is a member of the Arctic Region Supercomputing Center Technology Panel.
Now, I don’t know about you, but I am enlightened enough to at least research his CV check out his credentials, and then listen to what he has to say. Seems to me that is more productive than posting an article by a journalist from 1994 in a vain attempt to discredit someone.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:56 pmSeems to me that is more productive than posting an article by a journalist from 1994 in a vain attempt to discredit someone.
Comment by Citizen_of_Earth — December 12, 2007 @ 10:56 pm
That’s all Masturbastic has to go w/ C_o_E.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:58 pmSeems to me that is more productive than posting an article by a journalist from 1994 in a vain attempt to discredit someone.
Comment by Citizen_of_Earth — December 12, 2007 @ 10:56 pm
You assume these trollturds are trying to be productive. They’re not. Disruptive yes, productive no.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:00 pm“Hey! Polar bears are mean to seals man.”
Compared to bashing their little brains out for the pelts? At least they do it because they’re hungry.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:01 pm25. hat’s all Masturbastic has to go w/ C_o_E.
Guess your right, I must be getting old, because everyday I grow less and less tolerant of ignorance and the ever ubiquitous hypocrites that seem to shoot their mouth off without ever attempting to learn something new, and then insisting they are right and the world is wrong.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:04 pmAt least they do it because they’re hungry.
Comment by barfly — December 12, 2007 @ 11:01 pm
What? They aren’t making any money offa this? Sheez!
December 12th, 2007 at 11:05 pm“… and then insisting they are right and the world is wrong.”
Comment by Citizen_of_Earth — December 12, 2007 @ 11:04 pm
many of the troll comments are jaw-dropping bizarre. Its hard to believe they actually came from a human mind. Perhaps they’re coming from a different part of the body, come to think of it.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:06 pm26. You assume these trollturds are trying to be productive. They’re not. Disruptive yes, productive no.
Comment by Dave C
Sigh… yes I do tend to give people the benefit of the doubt, perhaps that is just the way I was brought up. Guess, I will just go back to reading the posts and leaving the comments to others, at least that way I can keep my blood pressure down.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:07 pm#6 CaptainMantastic
Here try this link — http://www.time.com/ time/ magazine/ article/ 0,9171,999630,00.html
Looks like the author of your article only took seven years to change his mind, yet you have refused to do so for another six. Impressive.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:08 pm“… at least that way I can keep my blood pressure down.”
Comment by Citizen_of_Earth — December 12, 2007 @ 11:07 pm
I personally find a brisk round of Whack-a-Trollâ„¢ to be both refreshing and invigorating!
Indeed, Whack-a-Trollâ„¢… the sport of kings!
December 12th, 2007 at 11:09 pmGeez, Hillybilly, does too much T-bird just git ya all riled up?
Mebbe we should put a couple of Mommie’s special Bye-bye Sleepytime pills in the next one, huh?
December 12th, 2007 at 11:11 pmUmm, Billy, that is NATURAL…something global warming isn’t. It is too bad you don’t understand the difference.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:13 pmWhen will the news about the Arctic melt be taken seriously? There’s lots of hilarious comments here on this link, but this story and its ominous implications scares me to death. I have two daughters and I don’t think this is a joking matter.
As for the dim bulb GOP candidates — it matters not what they think, the ice is melting.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:15 pmFinal reply to # #6 CaptainMantastic - In case you are too young to remember, here are a few other gems from 1994 in relation to computers:
* IBM releases OS/2 Warp (Great OS, stupid marketing)
* Microsoft releases its beta for Windows 95, code named Chicago
* MS-DOS 6.22 was released April
* Microsoft releases Windows 3.11 (Stupid OS, great marketing)
* VESA Local Bus 2.0 is released
* A mathematical flaw in the Intel Pentium involving the Pentium not correctly performing floating-point calculations is discovered (which leads to the Y2K scare, another non-event promoted by what I call “The Fear Lobby”)
#33. Does Whack-a-Troll lower blood pressure?
December 12th, 2007 at 11:18 pmActually, I do take it seriously Ditch Mitch. What would you like me to do, tell you I’m scared sh*tless too? I am.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:19 pmDoes Whack-a-Troll lower blood pressure?
Comment by Citizen_of_Earth — December 12, 2007 @ 11:18 pm
When done properly, yes.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:20 pmDitch, most people don’t care about polar bears (they are kind of self-centered). They don’t understand the ecosystem and the effect it will have on them. Of course, you are talking about conservatives, too, so it isn’t like they ever thought about anything but themselves.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:20 pmThe people or the bears (self-centered)?
December 12th, 2007 at 11:22 pm#33. Does Whack-a-Troll lower blood pressure?
Comment by Citizen_of_Earth — December 12, 2007 @ 11:18 pm
Well, it can’t hurt! I agree with TRoS, it can certainly be invigorating, and fun, too. And, while I’ve only read your comments over the last few days, I’d hate to see you give up commenting, you’re doing a fine job.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:23 pmI find that embarrassing trolls w/ their own words works best. Once they realize folks are laughing at them, it tends to be demoralizing.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:25 pmHey, Jane, remember the all-time Mr P classic, “Saudis aren’t Moslems”?
December 12th, 2007 at 11:26 pmOr the time Dr Dog got caught lying about being in Texas to fight wayne and never came back?
December 12th, 2007 at 11:27 pmSorry for the levity, sometimes one just has to find something to laugh at. I know this is no joking matter, however as noted here and elsewhere, the American public does not seem to want to take this topic seriously. So to answer your question, the American public will take it seriously when all the coastal cities are surrounded by massive sea walls to keep the water out.
A wise man once said, “Nothing is so pitiful as a nation being swept along by fools.”
December 12th, 2007 at 11:28 pmThe people, TRoS. Animals have a natural self-centeredness. Humans (at least many of those in the US) don’t need to be self-centered to survive. Republicans haven’t evolved that far.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:28 pmWith the loss of ice more hunters will be heading north, before the bears are too emaciated to make good trophies. And they’ll treat them like buffalo: take the hide, and leave the rest for scavengers.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:29 pmThe people, TRoS.
Comment by Sabyen91 — December 12, 2007 @ 11:28 pm
(whispered in conspiratorial tone of voice)
** i knew that… i’m just being my basic wise-ass self…**
Can’t help it… it comes natural…
December 12th, 2007 at 11:32 pmAnd they’ll treat them like buffalo: take the hide, and leave the rest for scavengers.
Comment by barfly — December 12, 2007 @ 11:29 pm
I would think we’re prepared to preserve breeding stock in zoos for the future. I’d sure hope so. I feel sorry for animals, not so for humans.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:34 pmThere has to be a good 50’s sci-fi movie where humans end up in zoos. Anybody know of one?
December 12th, 2007 at 11:36 pm“Planet of the Apes” comes close.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:39 pmEpisode of Star Trek… “The Menagerie”???
December 12th, 2007 at 11:39 pmJane, much thanks for the kind words. There are only four items I will comment on, they are in no particular order, sustainable development and the environment, health care for all Americans, separation of church and state, the failure of our criminal justice system. Again, thanks.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:40 pmDitch, yes we do take it seriously, and, yes, we are scared. But we’ve all made our serious views known on many other threads about this issue, and once in a while we have to laugh. There are too many overwhelmingly frightening things going on in today’s world, one cannot be serious and scared all of the time. Personally, it breaks my heart when any species or ecosystem is threatened with extinction. One particular nature show still brings tears to my eyes: one segment was about a particular rare species of bird in, I believe, Hawaii. They showed a male of the species singing his mating call, but, as far as the researchers could verify, there were no more females. For some reason, that little bird singing his unanswerable mating song struck my heart so deeply that I have tears in my eyes right now. It was one of the saddest things I had ever heard in my life. So, yes, I do take it seriously, and more, I take it personally.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:41 pmBush cartoon
December 12th, 2007 at 11:42 pmTRoS. The Menagerie is a good call.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:45 pm“For some reason, that little bird singing his unanswerable mating song struck my heart so deeply that I have tears in my eyes right now. It was one of the saddest things I had ever heard in my life. So, yes, I do take it seriously, and more, I take it personally”
That is very hearbreaking. I don’t know if he felt sadness but I certainly feel sad for him.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:46 pm38 - I’m still bummed about New Year’s ‘99 - that shoulda been the best party ever - instead it got hamstrung by a big, ersatz, digital wet blanket.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:47 pmI keep thinking of the Twilight Zone episode, “To Serve Man”. Of course humans didn’t end up in zoos, they were food.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:49 pmI saw the story of that bird too. It’s going to be even more depressing to watch helicopter footage of the last polar bear floating around on a raft of ice somewhere.
Maybe - if we can get the Flat-Earth Society back in its place, we’ll start making some headway on environmental matters again.
I don’t drive any more - got all my lights swapped out, and all the rest we’ve always done - just wish there was even more to do (on a regular family’s budget)
December 12th, 2007 at 11:50 pmmaybe Bad Bart will want to stop by and rip me a new one for that, too, now that I’m on his troll-bot spam list, or whatever he’s got going.
see ya all later.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:52 pmThey value their lemming-like loyalty, their political partisanship and their own pride before they would admit that they have been mistaken.
Apparently they believe that their progeny won’t be affected - or that the spirit in the sky that they worship will reward them in their afterlife.
Comment by Marie
You’re so naive. I’ll tell you exactly what it’s all about… MONEY.
They know damned well that they are “mistaken”. They just don’t give a f****!
December 12th, 2007 at 11:52 pmThe Menagerie is a good call.
Comment by Sabyen91 — December 12, 2007 @ 11:45 pm
Yeah, and I was thinking about that Twilight Zone episode too.
Isn’t there a segment in “Slaughterhouse Five” about a guy and a porn star in a glactic zoo?
December 13th, 2007 at 12:03 amFORMER porn star TRoS
December 13th, 2007 at 12:05 amI don’t know if he felt sadness but I certainly feel sad for him.
Comment by Sabyen91 — December 12, 2007 @ 11:46 pm
There is a rather large green bird in my neighborhood, some sort of tropical bird, that escaped from captivity years ago. I have heard it calling and calling for years, hoping one of its kind calls back, and one never does.
It makes me sad everytime I hear it.
December 13th, 2007 at 12:05 amIt’s been years since I’ve seen the movie. I remember that bit as being one of the better parts of the flick
I want to say Buck Henry and Melanie Griffith.
December 13th, 2007 at 12:06 amComment by The Republic of Stupidity — December 13, 2007 @ 12:05 am
TRoS, you’re making me cry again. That’s so terrible, especially if it’s a parrot, since they often live as long as 100 years.
December 13th, 2007 at 12:09 am“There is a rather large green bird in my neighborhood, some sort of tropical bird, that escaped from captivity years ago. I have heard it calling and calling for years, hoping one of its kind calls back, and one never does.”
I have had a pair of Cardinals that make their nest in a tree in my front yard. I love seeing them. I hope (beyond hope) that one of them doesn’t lose the other.
December 13th, 2007 at 12:16 amThey have been their for probably 8 years.
December 13th, 2007 at 12:17 amUnless there was a remake even Melanie Griffiths would have been jailbait. It was Vallerie Perrine and some guy.
December 13th, 2007 at 12:19 amOMG, that’s so sad, TRoS. No one has tried to catch it?
December 13th, 2007 at 12:19 amLooks like the swing shift trolls are fast asleep on the job. Thank Crom.
December 13th, 2007 at 12:29 amNo one has tried to catch it?
Comment by Zooey — December 13, 2007 @ 12:19 am
Hmmm… I started answering this one back at the Zoo.
Kinda confusing…
December 13th, 2007 at 12:56 amIt was Vallerie Perrine and some guy.
Comment by Sabyen91 — December 13, 2007 @ 12:19 am
Yer right, Valerie Perrine. I thought Melanie didn’t seem quite right after I said it.
December 13th, 2007 at 1:02 amYou know the worst part, no matter how much the decrease in CO2 emissions is done, we will still have dramatic climate changes. I predict that humans will adapt eventually to higher temperatures (dark skin people will do better than whites) but the fear I have is in deseases. My guess is that new deseases (you change the reference state -environment- and organisms adapt) will roam the Earth like a scurge.
December 13th, 2007 at 1:06 amWell, lets wait until 2013 and see if it happens. If it does, we can take this topic more seriously. If not, then we’ll be thankful that we didn’t waste our time with the nonsense. We’ll know in just 5 years who is right and who is wrong.
Agreed?
December 13th, 2007 at 1:42 amUnfortunately for those of us in the South, the lack of rain is nothing to laugh about, however, I have been saying the same thing about the law of cause and effect and support of, lets say, questionable governance.
That said, I know many Republicans (most of them are good, hard working people who are becoming more “Independent” in their thinking each day and are by and large, moderate and progressive).
It is a shame, their political party has been hijacked by extremists and like the folks who have hijacked Islam, other extremists, the planet and humanity will suffer as long as their moderate and progressive members stay quiet. They give new meaning to the term “silent majority”.
Back to the article of this thread - if you take the time to read the BBC report, you will find out that:
In a nutshell, as the waters in the Tropics warm up, that in turn will warm the Pacific, Gulf of Mexico and Atlantic ocean currents going up to the Arctic, which will of course melt the ice faster. Cause and effect, nothing more, nothing less, it is really that simple.
December 13th, 2007 at 1:59 am#80: Actually, Tennessee has a Democratic governor, Phil Bredesen. And, to my knowledge, he has never gathered his sheep together to pray for rain. I can’t speak for the governors of the other states you mentioned.
December 13th, 2007 at 2:16 amOverall TN isn’t exactly the most progressive state, but Bredesen has been doing a decent job in pushing for green energy. Not all of us Southerners are idiots (or Republicans), madam. http://www.biotenn.org/media/news/index.htm
If we develop a mass transportation system based on rail movement then I’ll believe that everyone really gives a damn
December 13th, 2007 at 4:43 amComment by CaptainMantastic — December 12, 2007 @ 10:14 pm
http://www.grida.no/climate/vital/32.htm
The hot water from the equator spreads as per the diagram and as it cools, sinks, while the water at the equator rises, warms up, and heads north.
It relies upon the concept of hot salt water rises and cold salt water sinks (Up until it freezes, at which point it crystalises, and rises again. Saltwater has a lower freezing point than plain water does though.) This is why you get sea currents.
Fresh water is, however, lighter then saltwater, and thus the cold fresh water doesn’t sink the way cold saltwater does. This slows the conveyor and can trigger a great freeze (Because the warm water from the equator is no longer moving North, as it has cold freshwater in its way.)
December 13th, 2007 at 5:02 amWhere’s all that water going to go?
December 13th, 2007 at 5:56 amklide
It’s going to stay right where it is, up until its salinity equalises with that of the melted icewater in the north.
Then the system will start again.
The trouble is, that in the meantime you will end up with a great freeze.
December 13th, 2007 at 6:27 amIt’s going to take an INCREDIBLE amount of government regulation and international cooperation to solve the climate problem. This will kill the wingers.
December 13th, 2007 at 6:33 amLast Republicans debate:
1. Global warming….We are not talking
2. Peace …..forget it
3. War…we are ready to bomb
4. Deficit…..give us big tax break, big tax break
5. Health…..Give us tax breaks, give us tax breaks
6. War spending…give it Bush give it Bush
7.Jesus….give me the microphone..now…give me the microphone now…
December 13th, 2007 at 7:25 amWhere’s all that water going to go?
Comment by klide — December 13, 2007 @ 5:56 am
If GWB has his way it will be used up waterboarding anyone who disagrees with him. See? It’s a win-win situation.
December 13th, 2007 at 8:04 amIt will be shocking to see the collapse of an entire ecosystem in my lifetime. The seals will go, just as surely as the polar bears–they need the pack ice to give birth and raise their pups. Even if some pack ice forms, it will break up every spring too early for the seal pups to be weaned properly. Sad, but the only thing that will save biodiversity on this planet is a massive pandemic that severely curtails the number of human beings. Short of a pandemic, the human species will have to learn to limit the number of children it produces or no other steps to save the environment will ultimately be successful. But the attitudes of the human race are still governed largely by a few Iron Age documents that tell them to be fruitful and multiply.
December 13th, 2007 at 8:11 amComment by O. Bigfoot — December 13, 2007 @ 8:17 am
Just curious, but what’s your fallback position when/if you’re wrong & all of the scientists not owned by big oil are correct? You & your family have a big stake in this too you know. It is possible that Chicken Little isn’t always wrong. Then this becomes more then a theoretical/partisan discussion.
December 13th, 2007 at 8:21 amI can hear your chortles of glee, Bigpoot, as you dream of barbecuing your beer stuffed chickens under the banyan trees in Rio Rancho.
December 13th, 2007 at 8:25 amHope you don’t mind all the mosquitos.
Can you imagine all the nasty dormant virus’ and bacterium that are going to emerge from the valley soil when the rains never cease?
A lot of the rabid talibangicals in this country are OK with environmental decline because if things get really bad, Jesus will return to make a “new heaven and a new earth”. The Petroleum Institute probably taps these groups when it hires its environmental dissemblers. I’m sure the oil guys think their trolls are wacky, too–but they know the trolls will fervently stand by the tired arguments.
December 13th, 2007 at 8:34 amI don’t think there is a another species on this planet that has the capacity for self-delusion exhibited by mankind.
Fixed your statement, there buddy.
OK, Bigfoot. What are you doing to be the solution, other than refusing to see a problem?
December 13th, 2007 at 8:36 amah, here’s bigfoot with the latest wingnut ignorance and hatred for humanity. Quote a passage full of researched fact, and then give his uninformed, backwards opinion. man is the problem, bigfoot, especially morons like y8ou. man is also the solution, but not if he refuses to use his brain. you are refusing to use yours, so you are the problem.
December 13th, 2007 at 8:43 am97. Beware of false prophets. They come to you disguised as sheep, but in their hearts they are vicious wolves.
Bingo! Now you understand why we don’t like Bush and Cheney! We were warned.
December 13th, 2007 at 8:45 amBeware of false prophets. They come to you disguised as sheep, but in their hearts they are vicious wolves.
Comment by cold_hard_left — December 13, 2007 @ 8:40 am
This is not just a republican problem, CHL, but thanks for the heads up.
December 13th, 2007 at 8:46 amI guess Bigfoot has no fallback position. He’s just fighting the theoretical fight. If it becomes a practical matter he’ll blame the govt for not heeding the call. Typical. Anyone who argues that global warming is a hoax should stop & think… what if I’m wrong? What if? You’re gambling that the entire non-big oil scientific community is wrong & you/GWB/Oil are right. This isn’t like withholding money from poor, starving American children. Everyone can see the logic of that. This will hit home to every person in the world. It isn’t a partisan debate.
December 13th, 2007 at 8:49 amSeems to me that is more productive than posting an article by a journalist from 1994 in a vain attempt to discredit someone.
Comment by Citizen_of_Earth — December 12, 2007 @ 10:56 pm
The naysayers do this because it’s all they have.
Have you ever known somebody who refuses to wear his seatbelt and justifies his position by claiming he knows a friend of a friend of his cousin who was thrown from his car in an accident and survived, and if he was wearing his seatbelt, he would have died? And he’ll cling to this tenuous “evidence” of his position despite all the REAL evidence that seatbelts save lives.
It’s the same principle at work here. People who don’t want to cut back on their greenhouse emissions will clutch at any straw to keep from having to do so.
December 13th, 2007 at 8:49 amIf climate change actually causes problems, whether the climate change is man-made or not, mankind can, and will, solve those problems.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 13, 2007 @ 8:53 am
You missed the notice. Mankind has determined that climate change is causing problems. They are moving to solve these problems. Your govt is standing in the way.
December 13th, 2007 at 8:59 amO–My question was moot, apparently.
If climate change actually causes problems, whether the climate change is man-made or not, mankind can, and will, solve those problems.
So we are not to use our imaginations to project where and how problems might occur? We must simply wait until a problem does arise, then we’ll hop up to fix it? Imagination is the one thing that separates us from other animals–the ability to look at trends and predict a probable outcome. For someone who claims to value humanity and human ingenuity, you sure seem content to let its greatest component sit idle.
December 13th, 2007 at 9:01 amO. Bigfoot
You are calling for the deaths of millions of human beings, on the faith based idea that “mankind will adapt.” Frankly, part of that adaption includes learning things like to not listen to useless, wilfully ignorant jerks who claim vast secret conspiracy theories rather then actually admitting that the scientific community might have a point.
It will lead to the start of a golden age of reason, when all of your praying will be cast aside, and you will be made powerless because the world’s scientists warned you stupid pieces of feces and you ignored them, pretty much like Cassandra was ignored at Troy.
December 13th, 2007 at 9:03 amWe don’t want to see the human race wiped out– I sure don’t. I want the human race to see that every scarcity and degradation problem we face is caused by the sheer number of humans. I would want us to limit our consumption of resources and curtail the expansion of the population. My point is that if we don’t act and continue to expand unchecked, the world will check us naturally.
December 13th, 2007 at 9:07 amGore blames US for climate inaction
Al Gore, the former US vice-president turned climate campaigner, has blamed the US for blocking progress at UN climate talks in the Indonesian island of Bali
The US is the main block preventing 190 nations in Bali from negotiations on a global climate pact to succeed the Kyoto Protocol from 2012.
http://english.aljazeera.net/English
December 13th, 2007 at 9:37 am#4. Finally, the coveted Northern passage!
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — December 12, 2007 @ 10:11 pm
Good material for Stephen Colbert… Bad for humanity, considering the moron who wrote it is serious!
December 13th, 2007 at 10:05 amComment by O. Bigfoot — December 13, 2007 @ 8:53 am
I have truly never seen a person so happy and satisfied to wallow in complete ignorance. You combination of ignorance, lack of basic logic, sefishness, religious zealotry, intolerance, cowardess, and a complete hostility to science are truly breath taking. It’s amazing. Sad and pathetic, but amazing. You truly are one of the worst human beings I have ever had the misery to experience
December 13th, 2007 at 10:26 amJust don’t tell me there is consensus on the subject when there is most definately not. And don’t tell me which calamity is certainly going to befall us, when every other prediction of the earth’s demise has been wrong.
Nothing is a “givenâ€.
Comment by O. Bigfoot
The consensus is split into two camps: Bushies vs. the Planet. For you to continue to assert that there is serious disagreement among the informed is nonsense. The evidence is overwhelming.
You are either watching the wrong TV programs, or listening to the wrong radio shows. Either way, you should take care before offering up these opinions in front of adults: they will laugh you out of the room, and back to the playground.
If you have - or will have children - wouldn’t you want to leave them a livable planet? I would hope so.
December 13th, 2007 at 1:01 pmHandover of economic sovereignty?
In 2003, the U.S. government handed out 3,512 contracts to companies to perform domestic security functions, from bomb detection to data mining. In the 22-month period ending in August 2006, the Homeland Security Department had issued more than 115,000 security-related contracts. Our government is nothing but a ATM for Big Business.
Remember that in 2006, Dubai International Capital has acquired the London-based Doncasters Group for $1.2 billion. Doncasters produces engine components and turbine blades for military platforms, and its clients include Boeing, General Electric, Honeywell and Pratt and Whitney. DIC is owned by the government of the United Arab Emirates.
Japan, China and the OPEC nations own over half of our national debt. Here is a list who holds what Treasury Securities.
Roger Ibbotson, Ph.D., a professor of finance at Yale Management School recently said: “If foreign countries stop buying our debt, that will cause long-term bond prices to drop, interest rates to rise and the dollar to fall. Excess demand for energy and natural resources from China and India will likely spur a rise in U.S. inflation rates.”
The debt does not include, money owed by states, corporations or individuals, nor does it include the money owed to Social Security beneficiaries in the future. If I remember correctly, if we include the money borrowed from the Social Security Trust Fund, as well as borrowings from other accounts already funded by US taxpayers the current debt is around $9.0 Trillion.
This raises two questions, “What economic sovereignty?” “What economic security”? We are giving our children and grandchildren a blank check that will bounce! Some sovereignty!
December 13th, 2007 at 1:14 pm“Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 13, 2007 @ 8:53 am
I have truly never seen a person so happy and satisfied to wallow in complete ignorance. You combination of ignorance, lack of basic logic, sefishness, religious zealotry, intolerance, cowardess, and a complete hostility to science are truly breath taking. It’s amazing. Sad and pathetic, but amazing. You truly are one of the worst human beings I have ever had the misery to experience
Comment by Blue Stater — December 13, 2007 @ 10:26 amâ€
Really?
You must not get out much.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 13, 2007 @ 12:52 pm
I get out a lot. I live in the most diverse city in this country, perhaps the world (New York City). I have traveled throughout the world to more than 30 different countries on 4 continents (Africa is next). Where have you been, do you even own a passport? I highly doubt it. You are an ignorant, scared, sad small little man who hates science and supports terrorists.
December 13th, 2007 at 1:29 pmThe United States is NOT the cause of the world’s problems, the United States is the solution.
Comment by O. Bigfoot
Talk about who doesn’t get out much…Sheesh. Do current and recent events mean anything to you? The US has HUGE domestic and international issues which are impacting our reputation and our ability to garner any assistance - because we seem so bull headed and stubborn. When you act like a creep, nobody wants anything to do with you.
December 13th, 2007 at 1:30 pmFACTS:
Greenhouse Gas Emissions USA = 24.04 (CO2e t/person)
Greenhouse Gas Emissions China = 3.05 (CO2e t/person)
Greenhouse Gas Emissions India = 1.34 (CO2e t/person)
Greenhouse Gas Emissions EU = 10.74 (CO2e t/person)
Greenhouse Gas Emissions Canada = 23.45 (CO2e t/person)
(Source: Carbon Planet Pty Ltd)
Any questions?
December 13th, 2007 at 1:37 pmWhile folks like you rush to blame the United States first for everything, most of us in America already have realized the folly of selling out our nation for short-term popularity that will in reality do very little to solve pollution problems around the world.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 13, 2007 @ 1:34 pm
You continue to talk about how you support America, but your positions, every last one of them, makes us less safe, less secure, more economically vulnerable, and more despised across the globe. You are like a Quisling 5th columnist who obviously actually hates this country.
And you never answered my question, where exactly have you been. I told you how much I get out, you?
December 13th, 2007 at 1:40 pmFACTS:
Greenhouse Gas Emissions USA = 24.04 (CO2e t/person)
Greenhouse Gas Emissions China = 3.05 (CO2e t/person)
Greenhouse Gas Emissions India = 1.34 (CO2e t/person)
Greenhouse Gas Emissions EU = 10.74 (CO2e t/person)
Greenhouse Gas Emissions Canada = 23.45 (CO2e t/person)
(Source: Carbon Planet Pty Ltd)
Any questions?
Comment by Citizen_of_Earth — December 13, 2007 @ 1:37 pm
Why are confusing the big idiot with facts, those pesky things make his head hurt.
December 13th, 2007 at 1:41 pmYou really need to do more research. Your simplistic assertion that there are only two camps, “Bushies vs. the Planetâ€, indicates your extreme ignorance of the subject.
Comment by O. Bigfoot
No, the research has already been done - you just don’t see it when you watch Fox news. And I have BEEN to China and India. There are numerous scientists and government folks who understand that we are moving in the wrong direction and that the ability to undo the damage may have already been passed by. Argueing against that point is simply a distraction which we cannot afford. You cannot absolve the US of its obligations because other developing countries might also contribute to the problem.
The bottom line is that we have only one planet to habitate. Once that planet is past the point of no return, we will start to revert back to the dark ages. The life we are used to will slowly be taken from us. The next world war will probably be fought over water or farmable land - not terrorists.
The entire globe is looking for leadership and cooperation. The US must be a visible and helpful partner. If we showed some leadership and courage, China and Inda just might listen to what we have to say.
December 13th, 2007 at 1:45 pmStratRat, spot on, well said. While humanity looks for leadership, cooperation, and the courage to do something, we have folks who need a pair of oars, because they are deep in denial and sinking in a river of ignorance and arrogance. They are looking for a mythical solution or salvation. They fail to understand is that faith without action is pointless. What is truly sad is that they will take the rest of the planet with them and we will leave our children and grandchildren with a situation that will be irreversible and a planet that no one will either want to or can inhabit.
December 13th, 2007 at 1:57 pmWhat is truly sad is that they will take the rest of the planet with them and we will leave our children and grandchildren with a situation that will be irreversible and a planet that no one will either want to or can inhabit.
Comment by Citizen_of_Earth
Thanks…We are supposed to be stewards of the planet and its resources - not abusers of it. If Bagfoot had children - or any sensitivity - he/she would already know this.
December 13th, 2007 at 2:17 pmIt’s so weird the way the right-wing apologists have apparently committed themselves to total denial about climate change. Anyone with half of a brain and a few decades under their belt can see with their own eyes the changes that have already occurred.
I was watching Planet Earth last night and the scariest thing they talked about (to me) was the issue of methyl hydrate. They said that with just a couple of degrees of warming the methyl hydrate will start to dissolve, warming the planet at a rate of 20 times more than CO2 and when that starts it’ll be a vicious cycle of warming and more warming. They were talking about the mass extinctions that this planet has experienced already.
Then there’s the oxygen issue. Warming will decrease the percentage of oxygen in the air. Right now we’re at 20% oxygen. Right before one of those mass extinctions oxygen was at 30% and then plummeted to 10% - hence the mass extinction.
December 13th, 2007 at 2:45 pmMy positions put the United States first, and don’t sacrifice ourselves on the altar of world approval.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 13, 2007 @ 2:36 pm
But your positions and the policies of the administration do the exact opposite. You make the US less safe, less secure, less economically viable and increase the hatred of people throughout the world (making us less safe).
December 13th, 2007 at 3:00 pmUnfortunately, the ideology of some in our country, stem from the notion of “manifest destiny”. Originally, it was used to refer to the idea that the American government was “destined” to establish uninterrupted political authority across the entire North American continent. Now it is used to refer to the idea that the United States should rule the world thought military power, or American Imperialism.
They also believe this gives us the right to rape and pillage our natural resources, without thought to or thought of the consequences. They don’t seem to understand that we are as a species interconnected and interdependent. That the looting of our natural resources without the notion of conservation will leave future generations without any. They refuse to acknowledge that all humans bleed the same color blood. And with them, it is their way or the highway, they have no room at their table for any intelligent discourse or different viewpoints. Ant, to insure their notion of superiority, they call everyone who disagrees with them cowards, traitors, and worse. The refuse to acknowledge that mankind is the only species who has become very adept and proficient at killing each other. They seem to not want to realize that, as Gandhi once said, “an eye for an eye only leaves the world blind”.
We may not have to worry about Sustainable Development; we may just succeed in what seems to be our endless quest to destroy the human race after all. We do however possess the ability to turn this all around, but it will take courage to do the right thing, not just the politically advantageous or profitable.
H.G. Wells said, “If we are to survive, our loyalties must be broadened further, to include the whole human community, the entire planet Earth. Many of those who run the nations will find this idea unpleasant. They will fear the loss of power. We will hear much about treason and disloyalty. Rich nation-states will have to share their wealth with poor ones. But the choice is clearly the universe or nothing.”
It was in his speech to the 1958 RTNDA Convention (Radio and Television News Directors Association) Edward R. Murrow said:
“We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. We must remember always that accusation is not proof and that conviction depends upon evidence and due process of law. We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason, if we dig deep in our history and our doctrine, and remember that we are not descended from fearful men— not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were, for the moment, unpopular… We can deny our heritage and our history, but we cannot escape responsibility for the result. There is no way for a citizen of a republic to abdicate his responsibilities. As a nation we have come into our full inheritance at a tender age. We proclaim ourselves, as indeed we are, the defenders of freedom, wherever it continues to exist in the world, but we cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home.â€
Anyway, I do not have any illusions that the theocratic believers, extremists, fundamentalist, and the spiritually challenged will change. I can only hope that they self-destruct as soon as possible so those of us who want to create something positive for future generations can get on with our mission for humanity.
December 13th, 2007 at 3:05 pmSorry if I don’t believe you. If you have traveled as much as you say, you would appreciate your nation more. Your words and obvious self-loathing bely your assertions that you somehow love your nation while you appear to hate everything it stands for.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 13, 2007 @ 2:36 pm
Do you want to see my passport. That a person such as yourself can even call into question my patriotism and love for this country is oscene. You are pathetic and sick.
December 13th, 2007 at 3:06 pmBlue Stater, that is what these people do, is they question our loyalty, and accuse us of being self-loathing (fox smells his own hole) all the while clinging to their own view of the world.
I have not only traveled the length of this country and around the world, but have lived abroad and in at least a quarter of our states. This has given me an appreciation for other cultures, other people and diversity, and an understanding of our own closed minded, centric, ideology that the majority of the other humans on this planet cannot understand.
December 13th, 2007 at 3:25 pmWhere does your allegiance lie? With the United States, or with the world?
My positions put the United States first, and don’t sacrifice ourselves on the altar of world approval.
I find humourous liberals who claim to love our nation while at the same time constantly criticizing everything we do and stand for.
Comment by O. Bigfoot
Hmmmm. Allegiance to Bush or a healthy planet. Gee, that is a tough one. As much as it sounds unpatriotic, I will always want a planet to live on - silly me. If the planet dies, it won’t matter to which allegiance you affirm - cause it will be a free for all. If a nation cannot feed or hydrate itself, all is lost for that nation and chaos ensues. Have you checked the southeast US lately. Lots of drought there now.
Even if we overstate the risk, isn’t the fact that this is a terminal issue cause you to err on the side of caution?
December 13th, 2007 at 4:06 pmStratRat, their ideology does not allow them to err on the side of anything, much less caution. You see, a radical cannot have a middle ground, their thinking is my way or the highway. Part and parcel of being a radical, an extremist, a fundamentalist, is closed mindedness. They cannot allow for critical thought because that negates their radicalism. Then once their faulty ideology is exposed for the lies, myths and misconceptions, they can do nothing other than call someone a liberal, like that is meant to offend me. I for one am proud of my liberal heritage, it means I can objectively look at an issue, educate myself on the facts and then make up my own mind. It means that I can be an engaged member of the human race and embrace humanity, including our failures and greatness.
BTW, you are 100% correct, if a people (read nation) cannot feed itself, if it cannot provide for its children, then it will choose methods that will allow for these things.
The next war will not be about oil, or wealth, it will be over water and food.
December 13th, 2007 at 4:25 pm