Sen. Kit Bond: Waterboarding Is Like ‘Swimming’
Sen. Kit Bond: Waterboarding Is Like ‘Swimming’
Yesterday on PBS’s Newshour, host Gwen Ifill asked Sen. Kit Bond (R-MO) whether waterboarding constitutes torture. Bond replied that the technique is actually more like “swimming“:
GWEN IFILL: Do you think that waterboarding, as I described it, constitutes torture?
SEN. KIT BOND: There are different ways of doing it. It’s like swimming, freestyle, backstroke. The waterboarding could be used almost to define some of the techniques that our trainees are put through, but that’s beside the point. It’s not being used.
Watch it:
Conservatives have repeatedly tried to dismiss the seriousness of waterboarding, referring to it as a “swim lesson.”
There’s no doubt that waterboarding is torture. There’s also no question that it’s been carried out on detainees. Former CIA interrogator John Kiriakou came out this week and confirmed that in 2002, al Qaeda leader Abu Zubaydah was waterboarded on orders from the White House.
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Now THAT’S stupdity in action!
Missouri must be very proud of this man.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:04 amFor Bond, thinking is like drooling.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:07 amConservatives are delusional.
They liken waterboarding to doing the backstroke, yet if someone says “Happy Holidays” instead of “Merry Christmas” it’s a War on Christmas.
Unfortunately Americans are stupid enough to believe whatever they say….
December 12th, 2007 at 11:08 amSEN. KIT BOND: There are different ways of doing it. It’s like swimming, freestyle, backstroke.
Is Agent ‘00 Bond talking about his & Foley’s sexual activity here?
It sure doesn’t sound like a torture discussion.
I submit that he’s from Missouri, so let’s SHOW HIM waterborading. After 30 seconds of drowning, you damn betcha’ he’ll be backstroking!
December 12th, 2007 at 11:09 amTP can do better.
Comment by CaptainMantastic — December 12, 2007 @ 11:06 am
Unfortunately, you can’t. The ‘point’ you think you’re making is ridiculous, just like Kit Bond’s statment. No, they didn’t take him out of context. It was an exact quote.
NEXT!!!
December 12th, 2007 at 11:09 amNow I get what “swimming with the fishes” means… thanks Bond! Swimming, my ass! What is it, exercise?
December 12th, 2007 at 11:11 amWaterboarding is torture, but more appropriately it is terrorism.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:12 am“I loves to go waterboardin’ with bowlegged wimmen…”
December 12th, 2007 at 11:14 am‘SEN. KIT BOND: There are different ways of doing it. It’s like swimming, freestyle, backstroke.’
You could, for example, hold their head under water face first, or you could slam their head back and hold them underwater upside down or you could just freestyle and do your own thing, come up with your own twist, if you will.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:15 amAll those years I spent studying German history, language, and the rise and fall of fascism in the early 20th century are going to good use now.
I refer to that knowledge base as I look around at my America and what it has become in my lifetime in the past seven years, and I know what it was like in Germany after 1932.
I look at the infiltration of political operatives into all branches of government and I know what it was like under Stalin and the rule of the appartchiks.
I expect the gulag being built by Halliburton purportedly for detaining illegal immigrants will be a might convenient place to house those declared enemies of the state for their political convictions when the time comes.
These people are totally, f&*(&(& EVIL. They appear to have no moral compass, no ethics, and their claim to represent Christianity soils the very name of Christ.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:15 amIf a Democratic administration had used waterboarding, there would be no debate about whether it was torture.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:15 amLet’s give this old codger a few “swimming lessons” to test it out, shall we?
December 12th, 2007 at 11:15 amthe reality is there actually is plenty of doubt that waterboarding, as practiced by the United States, is torture.
- - Yes, it wasn’t torture when the Nazis, the Japanese, and the Khmer Rhouge used it either.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:16 amHeartandliberal: This must seem like deja vu for you?
December 12th, 2007 at 11:16 amFormer CIA interrogator John Kiriakou came out this week and confirmed that in 2002, al Qaeda leader Abu Zubaydah was waterboarded
Kiriakou also said that the technique was effective in making Zubaydah break down and start talking which contributed to stopping several attacks.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:17 amUnfortunately for the far-left, the reality is there actually is plenty of doubt that waterboarding, as practiced by the United States, is torture.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 12, 2007 @ 11:12 am
Tell that to the courts that ruled against the Japanese after WWII, Bigfoot. It was clearly defined as torture and that definition was used to convict war criminals. Your continued attempts to pretend otherwise fly in the face of, literally, centuries of its use as torture, all the way back to the Inquisition.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:17 am#15 This is the critical question here. As well it is the “golden rule” - Do unto others….
If this country is ready to have our own POW’s waterboarded then so be it. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:18 amHow is today’s waterboarding specifically different from the waterboarding that has been prosecuted as a war crime in the past?
December 12th, 2007 at 11:18 amBond also used a phrase I’d not heard before; “al Qaida KINGPINS”.
This is fear-mongering at its worst. These people really are slime.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:18 amKit Bond shouldn’t be so flippant. The Insurgency runs deep in mighty MO. http://www.tshirtinsurgency.com
December 12th, 2007 at 11:18 amOK, let’s waterboard that delusional son of a b*tch - and we’ll just see how much fun it is.
Jesus H. Christ, I hate these people.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:19 amI expect the gulag being built by Halliburton purportedly for detaining illegal immigrants will be a might convenient place to house those declared enemies of the state for their political convictions when the time comes.
No such facility exists.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:19 am“My name is Bond, Kit Bond, and I’ll take my kool-aid shaken, not stirred. I’ll also take Dana Perino shaken as I’m sure I couldn’t stir her. Tell me, Q, who gets swimming lessons today?”
December 12th, 2007 at 11:20 amThe Republican Administration has said it is not torture, the Democrat Congress has refused to condemn the practice as torture, and Mainstream America has refused to force Congress to acknowledge it as torture. -Oh, Bigmouth
The Geneva Convention called it torture. John McCain calls it torture. The US Army calls it torture.
And since when does the ‘mainstream media’ force congress to do anything? Which Constitution are you pretending to follow?
Suggestion: Try waterboarding. If you need assistance, we’re here. Tomorrow, you can tell all of us if waterboarding felt like torture or not.
Deal?
December 12th, 2007 at 11:20 amI would think that anything that simulates drowning, regardless of the technique used, is undoubtedly and unequivocally TORTURE. No sense parsing words or playing semantics - simulated drowning is torture, just other simulated death scenarios constitute torture. There is NO WAY this is not torture and if the Dems were doing it, the reichwing pigs would be calling it torture. Time to get rottingly corrupt Bush and GOP politics out of everything in this country.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:20 amOur fictional friend, “O. Bigfoot” has now arrived to plant doubt.
How predictable.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:20 amBigmouth: Zim’s got it right. Everyone calls it torture and the army field manual calls it torture. And we don’t even have to get into the Geneva Conventions because it’s highly illegal in this country alone.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:21 amPushing Forward the Torture Agenda
The US administration is pushing forward in its attempts to make torture acceptable. Yesterday, John Kiriakou, a retired CIA agent, received widespread coverage when admitting that water-boarding was probably torture, and then went on to defend its use.
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/
December 12th, 2007 at 11:21 amComment by Peter C — December 12, 2007 @ 11:18 am
It’s getting to the point of “fear porn”. Gets them all titillated.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:21 amKit bon is right. Were actually doing terrorist bums a favor by lighter treatment.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:21 amPeterC: The only thing our hoof in mouth Bigfoot does is plant sheer stupidity, bigotry, and nonsense.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:21 amThe ACLU is in the midst of a legal challenge calling for the release of three documents issued by the Department of Justice’s Office of Legal Counsel (OLC) that are believed to have authorized the CIA to use extremely harsh interrogation methods. The memos, which were written in May of 2005, were not included in the government’s response to the ACLU’s Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request for all documents pertaining to the treatment and interrogation of detainees in U.S. custody. The government also withheld the documents from key senators during a congressional inquiry.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:22 amI just hope there is enough public money in Missouri to put Bond in a padded cell for the rest of his life.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:22 amThere is NO WAY this is not torture and if the Dems were doing it, the reichwing pigs would be calling it torture.
Which makes one wonder why the practice wasn’t outlawed under previous democrat administrations, or the current dem-controlled houses.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:22 amHow is letting “terrorists” go for a swim going to get any information from them?
December 12th, 2007 at 11:23 amGWEN IFILL: Do you think…
December 12th, 2007 at 11:23 amTo paraphrase Shaldag: No such faculty exists.
What is crystal clear is that the only reason the evidence was destroyed and we’re even having this discussion is to get GWBush’s sad a$$ off the hook for okaying torture techniques.
What this entire administration and Congress is embroiled in currently has to do with keeping Bush out of one of our own prisons and to keep him from realizing the same fate as Hussein by the International tribunal at the Hague.
This guy is toxic through and through. We’re throwing good money after bad when we spend taxpayer money to cover Bush’s sad butt and keep him out of prison.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:24 amOnly one thing unites Iraq: hatred of the US
Good job there Mr Bush / sarc
http://comment.independent.co.uk/ commentators/ article3241904.ece
December 12th, 2007 at 11:24 amWhere was Sen Bond when President Clinton was around.
Clinton could have used this defense: “BJ’s aren’t sex. There are different ways of doing it. Its like dry humping or masturbation. Of course Republicans wouldn’t know that there are different ways of having sex, but trust me - there are”
December 12th, 2007 at 11:24 amRemember: This is the same man who blew up innocent frogs for sheer pleasure.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:24 amFormer CIA interrogator John Kiriakou came out this week and confirmed that in 2002, al Qaeda leader Abu Zubaydah was waterboarded
Kiriakou also said that the technique was effective in making Zubaydah break down and start talking which contributed to stopping several attacks.
Comment by Shaldag — December 12, 2007 @ 11:17 am
The only problem was that by the time that Zubaydah was actually ‘interrogated’, Kiriakou had been reassigned and has no direct knowledge of what actually happened when Zubaydah was tortured. CIA interrogators who were there say that none of the information gained could not have been gained through more traditional methods.
All I have to say to those who say that waterboarding isn’t torture… when one of our brave soldiers is subjected to the same treatment, then you cannot scream about the inhumanity of the other side.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:25 am#42 Did you see the part where the head of Iraqi Parliament has rejected Bush’s wet dream of having a permanent military base in Iraq?
December 12th, 2007 at 11:25 amIt ain’t gonna happen.
There is NO WAY this is not torture and if the Dems were doing it, the reichwing pigs would be calling it torture.
Which makes one wonder why the practice wasn’t outlawed under previous democrat administrations, or the current dem-controlled houses.
Comment by Shaldag — December 12, 2007 @ 11:22 am
There is this thing called the Geneva Convention that the US signed that did exactly that. Geneva, it’s a city in Switzerland, I’ve been there it does exist. Trash like you who have never even left the country and think a passport is a bad thing may not understand that.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:25 amsince he has volunteered for torture, and thinks it is “good”, can’t we accommodate him? He needs to understand it first hand. Cowards need not apply.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:26 amWhat’s it going to be sissy?
Is this not torture?http://i.current.com/swf/barca/vm2_embed.swf?vid=http://v.current.com/video/feeds/pods/20060922_Waterboarding.flv&img=http://i.current.com/images/epg/controversy/waterboard/1_400×300.jpg&tit=Getting%20Waterboarded&top=&h=http://current.com&i=76347282&p=http://current.com/items/76347282_getting_waterboarded&s=1
December 12th, 2007 at 11:26 amget that man some “SWIMMING LESSONS” for christmas.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:27 amRaynman: Thanks for clarifying the fact that this possible “Bush frontman” yesterday has no credibility or knowledge of the facts whatsoever and was probably put out there to do some damage control.
At this point, the only way to even get the ear of americans is to do a “mixed bag” style of damage control. Condemn the obvious and then plant some seed of doubt. Initially, this guy looked like a real whistleblower; now he’s looking just like another Bush propaganda tool.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:27 amLet’s see how well Bondo backstrokes with his hands and feet restrained.
Watta tool!
December 12th, 2007 at 11:27 amBond is another TRAITOR to the USA like MURDERER Bush the COXUCKER punk TRAITOR.
God SEES the EVIL done by people like Bush, Cheney and Bond.
And calling yourself “christian” doesn’t protect you from the WRATH of God, as he KNOWS these people are EVIL and they will BURN!!
For ETERNITY!
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Sincerely,
NRA Gun Nutes
December 12th, 2007 at 11:27 am#8 - “Except for those who use the issue as a rallying cry for continued hatred of the United States.” Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 12, 2007 @ 11:12 am
We don’t bame you for your hatred of the US, we just wish you would follow the principles of our founding fathers, and refuse to support torture in any form. When you support the tactics of our enemies by torturing people, you become like the enemy.
I’ll keep you in my prayers.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:28 amWhich makes one wonder why the practice wasn’t outlawed under previous democrat administrations, or the current dem-controlled houses.
Comment by Shaldag — December 12, 2007 @ 11:22 am
Simple. Torture is defined under the Torture Convention as:
“any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity.”
Hence the reason why waterboarding has never been specifically proscribed in law as torture is because it is BLEEDING FCUKING OBVIOUS from the treaty definition that it is torture.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:28 amIf the CIA Hadn’t Destroyed Those Tapes, What Would Be Different?
Kevin Drum started asking the questions we are posing over the weekend. He pointed out that the tapes would have revealed “not just that we had brutally tortured an al-Qaeda operative, but that we had brutally tortured an al-Qaeda operative who was (a) unimportant and low-ranking, (b) mentally unstable, (c) had no useful information, and (d) eventually spewed out an endless series of worthless, fantastical ‘confessions’ under duress.” Those confessions, and others like them, have been the underpinning for much of the government’s legal assault on the rule of law in recent years, from free and open trials, to secret expansions of executive powers. Certainly Drum is speculating, just like we are. It’s impossible to say for sure what the tapes would have revealed, much less how such revelations might have changed all these recent events. But it’s worth trying to refit the pieces, because this evidence was deliberately obliterated. Otherwise, the CIA’s act of destruction wins.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:29 amBush knows that at this point one of his plants has to look like a real whistleblower in order to engage the public. He lost credibility when he tried to spin waterboarding and gaining good intel using it when we know that isn’t true. By the end of his circuit of talk shows yesterday, this guy’s motive was clear: protection of the preznut’s hind end.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:29 ampatooty, it’s not really simulated drowning.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:30 amregardless whether you’re in a body of water, you’re still filling a person’s lungs with water, which is what drowning is. And what waterboarding is. It’s just like suffocating someone but then taking your hand away just in time.
Bush & His CIA = Clear Obstruction of Justice
December 12th, 2007 at 11:30 amTorture is illegal. Waterboarding is torture. What part of illegal do GOOPers fail to understand?
December 12th, 2007 at 11:31 amEvery time a Republican opens his mouth he just proves what thugs they are. The degeneracy of the people in the Republican Party continues to astound.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:31 amwhen one of our brave soldiers is subjected to the same treatment, then you cannot scream about the inhumanity of the other side.
Comment by raynman — December 12, 2007 @ 11:25 am
They will, repeatedly. All the while leaving out the small detail that they condoned it at this time.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:32 amWilco: Suffocating is even worse. It’s heinous and criminal no matter how you dice it. Of course, if Mukasey or Congress upholds our own laws regarding waterboarding, Bush will enjoy his retirement in a prison cell - which everyone knows. This is the only reason for this discussion at this time - before he leaves office because he knows that when a dem president takes office, he will find himself standing before a jury.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:32 amWho would beg to confess while swimming the back stroke?
The purpose of torture is not just for the pleasure of sadists, it is to illicit information by force.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:33 amIf the victim is begging to confess, the activity is torture.
It’s the whole point of these “harsh” techniques… forced confessions.
And we know from decades of study that forced confessions have little or no value. The victim of torture/harsh techniques will lie to get relief.
“Kiriakou also said that the technique was effective in making Zubaydah break down and start talking which contributed to stopping several attacks.”
According to Kiriakou, everything was very closely monitored and approved up the chain of command. The president absolutely knew and approved of the waterboarding. President Bush personally authorized the torture of a prisoner, via the Deputy Director for Operations of the CIA. So, despite Bush’s protestations, he has lied to the world.
Kiriakou, in contrast with Ron Suskind’s reporting, says that the information Zubayhdah gave was legit and confirmed from other sources. But it is interesting that Zubaydah ascribed his decision to cooperate to a dream where Allah gave him permission to talk. I have no doubt it was related to the breakdown caused by waterboarding, but with religious fanatics, a religious sanction is also necessary. Torture alone was not enough.
The nature of the attacks that Kiriakou says the CIA foiled because of torture was not cataclysmic. It was not the nuclear ticking time-bomb. It was more operational information, and in so far as some attacks were, according to Kiriakou, foiled, they weren’t on US soil. They were overseas.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:33 am#62 Once people engage in criminal activity, it only grows exponentially downward - never upward until they are stopped or caught or brought to justice.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:33 am“There’s no doubt that waterboarding is torture.â€
Quite untrue.
Unfortunately for the far-left, the reality is there actually is plenty of doubt that waterboarding, as practiced by the United States, is torture.
The Republican Administration has said it is not torture, the Democrat Congress has refused to condemn the practice as torture, and Mainstream America has refused to force Congress to acknowledge it as torture.
And as the Iraq situation continues to improve, and the action there fades from the forefront of American consciousness, the issue of waterboarding will become even more miniscule than it has been so far.
Except for those who use the issue as a rallying cry for continued hatred of the United States.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 12, 2007 @ 11:12 am
Do you think anyone here actually believes or wants to hear your convoluted “facts.” You represent 24% of Americans, not a majority. You are just gutter white trash, go back to your meth lab.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:34 ambadmoon: Yes, Kirikou certainly indicted Bush which is why this new tact of redefining torture. Thank goodness for the evidence we have of Bush’s incessant protestations “We don’t torture” “The united states doesn’t torture” because he’ll be eating these lies one day soon.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:35 amwhen one of our brave soldiers is subjected to the same treatment, then you cannot scream about the inhumanity of the other side.
Comment by raynman — December 12, 2007 @ 11:25 am
The administration/pentagon apologists that come here do not seem to have much of a long view (except in forseeing their ‘Long War’ - for some reason they can see neverending war in the future just fine).
They (the current admin/pentagon) have set precedent after precedent regarding presidential powers, lack of accountability to Congress and by extension the citizens, disdain for the rules of law and now this whole waterboarding thing which, as the apologists well know, this country has prosecuted as torture in the past.
Now the next president will be able to do whatever they want, without having to explain a thing (explain truthfully anyway) and if U.S. personnel are subjected to torture they will have lost the right to say that it’s wrong, let alone prosecute anyone for doing it.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:35 amThere is this thing called the Geneva Convention that the US signed that did exactly that. Geneva, it’s a city in Switzerland, I’ve been there it does exist. Trash like you who have never even left the country and think a passport is a bad thing may not understand that.
The GC applies to prisoners of war, it does not cover terrorists who do not fit the parameters of the 3rd GC convention.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:37 amI think this: For the Bush administration to put this guy out there as a whistleblower it must be that they’ve already caved knowing that Rummy and Bush were involved in permitting waterboarding. Even public statements have been made regarding the use of this form of torture. This is why Kerikou felt comfy making his statements about the use of waterboarding.
Now the problem will be for Bush to find a way to parse waterboarding into several types - some downright torture and some not as bad.
This is what Bush is counting on to keep his butt out of prison for war crimes.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:37 am24% support, TV show “24″, 24 x 3 (Christian Trinity) = 72 the same number of virgins promised by the Muslim extremists
Coincidence? I think not.
/snark off (I think)
December 12th, 2007 at 11:37 amAccording to our trolls, we should exhume the bodies of the Japanese officers we executed for these war crimes and Bush can give them Freedom medals.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:38 amEverybody involved with waterboarding, including officers, approving politicians of any party and administration officials in positions of responsibility need to be taken to trial and held accountable. Should be jail time. How low has our once mighty nation sunk?
December 12th, 2007 at 11:39 amAnd the far-left’s continued attempts to ignore the differences in waterboarding procedures, and refusal to accept the truth that as practice by the United States, waterboarding is not torture, only further proves the far-left’s willingness to coddle terrorists and stymie the war against a real enemy that has repeated attacked the United States and has definately cost U.S. lives.
The continued belief that the U.S. government is a bigger enemy than those who actually have attacked us puts the far-left squarely on the side of the terrorists who unabashedly proclaim: “Death to the U.S.A.â€, and also firmly in the camp of those terrorists who have actually taken American lives and those of our allies.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 12, 2007 @ 11:34 am
As someone who lives in New York City and knows too many people who did die at the hands of terrorists, your position supports them. You are a terrorist supporter. You are un-American and a supporter of those who murder Americans. To advocate treason. Why do you hate the US and want to see its citizens killed? Seriously, take your I support the fight against terrorists stance, you do the opposite, and shove it.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:39 amBush is already indicted regarding his approval of waterboarding which is against our laws and against international law. Now he’s trying to find definitions of types of waterboarding which may or may not be considered “illegal”. This is the MO of Bush’s entire presidency.
When asked a question which is not specific right down to the splitting of a hair, he turns it around so as not to appear that he’s lying (which he is) by confusing the issue or trying to introduce another meaning to the word in question. This is TYPICAL BUSHIE MO!
December 12th, 2007 at 11:39 amHow can any nation in the planet vote for these guys like him ??? nobody but the Americans
They should be thrown from office straight away
December 12th, 2007 at 11:40 amThe GC applies to prisoners of war, it does not cover persons handed over to the US by Afghans and Pakistanis for bounties, regardless of their circum…wait…
December 12th, 2007 at 11:40 amReality and neocons are two non-intersecting sets.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:40 amAnd the far-left’s continued attempts to ignore the differences in waterboarding procedures, and refusal to accept the truth that as practice by the United States, waterboarding is not torture, only further proves the far-left’s willingness to coddle terrorists and stymie the war against a real enemy that has repeated attacked the United States and has definately cost U.S. lives.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 12, 2007 @ 11:34 am
Please define how WaterboardingUSA is not torture, as opposed to WaterboardingNippon. Drowning is drowning and your refusal to accept the truth proves the far-right’s willingness to coddle authoritarians and fear-mongerers who are trying to subvert democracy right here in the United States.
You’re pulling this stuff right out of your butt, Bigfoot. Waterboarding is drowning and it is torture, whether it’s being done by the Inquisition or the CIA.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:40 amExcept for those who use the issue as a rallying cry for continued hatred of the United States.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 12, 2007 @ 11:12 am
So waterboarding isn’t torture. I guess you like keeping company w/ the Inquisition, the Nazis, the Imperial Japanese, and Khmer Rouge.
Nice friends.
And nice Jingle Ballsâ„¢, BTW. They go really well w/ the candy-cane striped codpiece and matching tights, and the vinyl short shorts and curly toed elf shoes. Somebody, get a picture before he sobers up.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:40 amAll our spineless congress needs to do right now is state that a new resolution is unnecessary since waterboarding is considered torture according to our rule of law and the Geneva Conventions - end of discussion and end of story.
There’s no good reason for them to even be considering a resolution at this point.
It’s like all of the illegal immigrant resolutions - JUST UPHOLD THE DAMN LAWS ALREADY IN EXISTENCE, MORONS!
December 12th, 2007 at 11:41 amThe nature of the attacks that Kiriakou says the CIA foiled because of torture was not cataclysmic. It was not the nuclear ticking time-bomb. It was more operational information, and in so far as some attacks were, according to Kiriakou, foiled, they weren’t on US soil. They were overseas.
Yet the victims of those attacks would be just as dead, even though the attacks occurred overseas. Someday it might be a “nuclear ticking time-bomb” and then no one except the most strident will give a hoot what was done to gain the information.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:41 amThose that continue to support the use or torture such as waterboarding are advertising their own weakness. A strong country can abstain from torture and can afford to obey the law.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:42 amjb: “How low has our mighty nation sunk”?? We’re off the charts right now in terms of a new national NADIR! Bush has gutted this country from the inside out and when he leaves office we will also find that he’s raided the treasury to boot. God only knows what horrible criminal acts this man is responsible for - certainly the GOP congress kept it all under wraps. Can you imagine where we might be right now if the Dems didn’t come in and at least bring these GOP monsters into some form of accountability?
December 12th, 2007 at 11:43 amDemocrats are as worthy as disfigured people.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:44 amBond makes the point that when you talk about waterboarding generally, there are a range of different techniques that could be as different from each other as freestyle is different from the backstroke.
Please spend more time on these postings; the jeopardy to your credibility isn’t worth it.
Comment by CaptainMantastic — December 12, 2007 @ 11:29 am
This coment is so idiotic it defies belief. On the other hand, you don’t HAVE any credibility to jeopardize, so blither on… and on… and on…
December 12th, 2007 at 11:44 amBond makes the point that when you talk about waterboarding generally, there are a range of different techniques that could be as different from each other as freestyle is different from the backstroke.
Comment by CaptainMantastic — December 12, 2007 @ 11:29 am
The swimming comparison is ridiculous.
The difference between waterboarding a trainee SEAL and waterboarding a prisoner (which is the difference Bond is highlighting) is the difference between what is torture and what isn’t. Waterboarding is simulated drowning, period. However you do it, you know the effect on the individual. In the case of the trainee SEAL, the purpose of it is to prepare the individual for future missions; wrt a prisoner, it is “intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession”.
That’s the Torture Convention language, and it unambiguously confirms the waterboarding of prisoners as torture.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:44 amComment by The Republic of Stupidity — December 12, 2007 @ 11:40 am
Bigfoot, is this the way the threads normally regress here or is it just one or two of them that engage in such a manner?
December 12th, 2007 at 11:45 amThis is precisely why there won’t be another Rethug President for at least the next decade! The polls yesterday tell it all: Any of the Dem frontrunners would win over any of the Republiscum by a LANDSLIDE.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:45 amThat tells it all.
Waterboarding is not quite like swimming, it’s more like being strapped down flat on your back to a board and having you head dunked, up-side-down, into a bucket of water while a soggy rag is repeatedly stuck into your mouth, inducing panic but no actual physical damage.
Quite ingenious, not to mention effective under the right circumstances.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:46 am#90: “Democrats are as worthy as disfigured people.”
- - Beauty is subjective. You however, are a horse’s ass.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:46 amI think TP sensationalized the headline a little bit on this one. I interpreted Kit Bond as saying that there are different types of waterboarding — just as there are different swimming strokes. I don’t see that he made any other parallels between waterboarding and swimming, and I don’t think he regards it as a recreational sport.
That said — I’m more alarmed about Bond’s statement that “it’s not being used.” Call me a skeptic, but when I have been lied to as much as I have been, I have a hard time believing anything coming out of GOP mouths these days.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:46 amShaldag: The threads only regress when morons like yourself and Bigmouth find it necessary to assuage your shattered egos.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:46 amBond makes the point that when you talk about waterboarding generally, there are a range of different techniques that could be as different from each other as freestyle is different from the backstroke.
Comment by CaptainMantastic — December 12, 2007 @ 11:29 am
**tweet!! and yellow flag** Illegal use of logic. Correction as follows:
Waterboarding is like drowning in fresh water or salt water, hoping to any god ever worshipped that the “life guard” holding your head underwater decides to “save” you in time for you to actually tell him what he wants to hear, true or not.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:46 ammissmolly: With you all the way on the lie factor. No one in this country can believe anything which comes from this white house.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:47 amSince waterboarding, according to Kit Bond (no relation to James), is like swimming, then I’m sure he’d support using it as a memory aid the next time a Boosh Administration official tells a Senate subcommittee that they “can’t recall.” And, to be effective, the waterboarding would have to continue until the recipient admitted to some egregious wrongdoing. And since the Booshies would like to have confessions obtained through such means deemed as valid, they could immediately be tried and convicted based on these admissions.
Actually, what Bond provided was an incomplete definition — waterboarding is like swimming, only with a millstone around one’s neck.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:47 amIn the case of the trainee SEAL, the purpose of it is to prepare the individual for future missions
Which would lead one to believe (since SEAL’s and others have been enduring such training for decades) that capture by our enemies could lead to waterboarding being inflicted on them.
Shoots down the argument that others will only do it us only because we have done it to them.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:48 amguess what Manastic? There’s only one so-called technique other than outright drowning. Do your homework. It’s all torture. Are there more then one technique for inserting a firecracker in a toad’s ass and lighting it, too?
December 12th, 2007 at 11:48 amThe nature of the attacks that Kiriakou says the CIA foiled because of torture was not cataclysmic. It was not the nuclear ticking time-bomb. It was more operational information, and in so far as some attacks were, according to Kiriakou, foiled, they weren’t on US soil. They were overseas.
Yet the victims of those attacks would be just as dead, even though the attacks occurred overseas. Someday it might be a “nuclear ticking time-bomb†and then no one except the most strident will give a hoot what was done to gain the information.
Comment by Shaldag — December 12, 2007 @ 11:41 am
I live in New York City, target #1 for terrorists. Very few people here support this president and his policies because we understand (we’re not dumb like you) that his policies make us much less safe. Go travel, see the world and stop being a sniveling coward.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:48 ammiss molly,
You are an obviously kind and generous woman. Bond used a “swimming” analogy to purposely minimize waterboarding. The false association of waterboarding-swimming is no different than the false association of 911-Iraq.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:49 amBut we sure lured the trolls on that opener - what a setup. Hah! ALL forms of waterboarding are torture. Besides, according to the army field manual and the CIA, the technique is clearly described. No possible way to redefine it.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:49 amSo if waterboarding is such a day in the park, why do they call it harsh and demand that it be used against suspected terrorists?
-GSD
December 12th, 2007 at 11:50 amBiggie is just doing his job of trying to redefine reality so the rest of us see the world the way he does, right or wrong. He is wrong by the way and this whole discussion with him really has no purpose.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:50 amUmar (Mr. Pee?) nice try! Outed again I guess.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:51 amShaldag: The threads only regress when morons like yourself and Bigmouth find it necessary to assuage your shattered egos.
Comment by patooty — December 12, 2007 @ 11:46 am
Yet it is you and others who feel it necessary to call people morons and insinuate all sorts of aberrant behavior. If that is supposed to be ‘thinking progressively’ then the left has slid further down than is healthy.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:51 amBush is famous for the backstroke; cheney is famous for the cardiostroke; Rice is famous for the pump stroke.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:52 ammissmolly,
“I’m more alarmed about Bond’s statement that “it’s not being used.â€
——————————————————————————————-
It probably is not being used anymore because waterboarding loses it’s ability to induce severe panic once people know that death or permanent physical injury will not be the outcome.
Now that everyone and his brother knows about waterboarding it has become far less useful as a means of gathering information.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:52 amJDMurhphy, you have been reported. Hopefully, you are gone soon.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:53 amshaldag and puppet: Hit the road if you don’t like it. You have no purpose here; in fact, from the sound of it your entire life has no purpose.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:53 amTorture says alot more about the people doing the torture than the subjects who are tortured.
I wonder what Jesus would think about state sanctioned torture, I mean I hear crucifixion isn’t all that bad, just hanging around in the arm sun with your friends.
*Snark off
-GSD
December 12th, 2007 at 11:53 amand then no one except the most strident will give a hoot what was done to gain the information.
Comment by Shaldag — December 12, 2007 @ 11:41 am
Even trianed militray personnel (which you clearly are not) say torture doesn’t provide good intel.
Question for you, loser. If waterboarding is so vital to national security, why did the CIA quit using it back in 2005? Or are they lying when they say they did? And are these the same CIA guys who were wrong about WMDs in Iraq? Or the secret lefty cabal who just issued the NIE about Iran’s “nucular program”?
And why did the Brusch Admin cut funds to secure nuclear materials in the old Soviet Union? And are cutting funding for homeland security in the US? Don’t try to answer all at once. Yer head might implode.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:54 amwarm sun….
December 12th, 2007 at 11:54 amMissouri is it?… That show a lot about Missouri where people actually vote in someone like Sen. Kit Bond. KIT BOND SHOULD GO FOR A SWIMING SECTION OF ONE HOUR. WATERBOARD THE WAR CRIMINAL THAT THINKS THE ILEGAL PRACTICE IS NOT TORTURE!
December 12th, 2007 at 11:54 amBlue Stater: Don’t fall for the troll (ulmar lee). He’s a know purveyor of feces on these threads. He’s a troll hijacker.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:54 amSmall Government is needed so I can do and say what the hell I want.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:54 amShaldag: If Bush had even one concern for our national security, don’t you think closing the borders would trump waterboarding any day of the week? Nice try. Adios, fool.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:55 amA Christian collaborator of the Zionists has been killed by the brave Mujahadeen!
Comment by Umar Lee
A real progressive will hardly rejoice in the killing of men. I’m reporting you as well.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:55 amCan you imagine where we might be right now if the Dems didn’t come in and at least bring these GOP monsters into some form of accountability?
Comment by patooty — December 12, 2007 @ 11:43 am
So true, and yet I worry that some Dems may have been complicit due to the climate of fear. Acting out of fear is not a legitimate excuse. We expect our leaders to obey the law. First we need the cleansing of light and all illegal activities must come into the light. Right now, an overwhelming number crimes are coming to light. Its hard enough to dig out the information and keep all the manipulations and spin straight. Someday soon, we need to move into accountability or America is dead.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:55 amA Christian collaborator of the Zionists has been killed by the brave Mujahadeen!
A few others got killed along with the general. I suppose the ‘brave muj’ will just have to chalk them up as martyrs, though it would have been nice if you had asked first before volunteering them as new members of paradise.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:55 amDefinition of torture currently in 18 USC 2404:
(1) “torture†means an act committed by a person acting under the color of law specifically intended to inflict severe physical or mental pain or suffering (other than pain or suffering incidental to lawful sanctions) upon another person within his custody or physical control;
December 12th, 2007 at 11:56 am(2) “severe mental pain or suffering†means the prolonged mental harm caused by or resulting from—
(A) the intentional infliction or threatened infliction of severe physical pain or suffering;
(B) the administration or application, or threatened administration or application, of mind-altering substances or other procedures calculated to disrupt profoundly the senses or the personality;
(C) the threat of imminent death; or
(D) the threat that another person will imminently be subjected to death, severe physical pain or suffering, or the administration or application of mind-altering substances or other procedures calculated to disrupt profoundly the senses or personality; and
(3) “United States†means the several States of the United States, the District of Columbia, and the commonwealths, territories, and possessions of the United States.
Yet it is you and others who feel it necessary to call people morons and insinuate all sorts of aberrant behavior. If that is supposed to be ‘thinking progressively’ then the left has slid further down than is healthy.
Comment by Shaldag — December 12, 2007 @ 11:51 am
If the shoe fits, stick in yer mouth. You don’t come here to debate, just to disrupt and annoy. Your comments are ridiculously dishonest or flat out irrational. You get treated accordingly.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:56 am#59 wilco said:
Exactly. Why would it work if it did not put people in fear of their lives?
How does Bill O’Reilly think that it causes people to start confessing things if it is like he says, “splashing a little water in their face”? You know something is serious when all the right-wingers have to use euphemisms for the word torture. Do a search for “simulated drowning”. Simulated drowning is not the same as “real drowning” which is what takes place during waterboarding.
However, what information are the interrogators being fed at this moment of confession in this near-death experience? I would gladly tell someone I am the reincarnation of Richard Nixon, living in sin with Snow White and the 12 dwarves, if it allowed me to breathe. I would tell them much worse and much more believable things than that if the drowning would stop.
This country has had centuries of successful interrogations without the use of torture. Even without considering the morality of it, the experts, like John McCain, and countless CIA and military men condemn torture because it does not produce reliable intelligence (See: War, Iraq)
December 12th, 2007 at 11:56 amAny reich-winger that cannot admit that waterboarding is torture undoubtedly hates real American values. Real Americans do not support torture. When the Japs waterboarded our troops in WWIII, we as a country were outraged and decried such acts. We clearly defined waterboarding as torture and real Americans still recognize this facts. Reich-wingers gladly sell out our country and our values for the sake of their perverse party.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:56 amComment by sacopenapa — December 12, 2007 @ 11:54 am
Missouri is a modorn, intelligent and nicely conservative state. Think or shut up.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:57 amNow that everyone and his brother knows about waterboarding it has become far less useful as a means of gathering information.
Comment by Charles James Napier — December 12, 2007 @ 11:52 am
Sure! It’s not like waterboarding is an old torturing technique practiced by many cultures over many centuries and information about its technique and outcomes could have been known by any other country but the super U.S.A..
Oh, really, … it is? it has? it is?…never mind.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:57 amBigfoot, is this the way the threads normally regress here or is it just one or two of them that engage in such a manner?
Comment by Shaldag — December 12, 2007 @ 11:45 am
Somebody get a picture of this one too. Whattaoutfit.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:58 amBlue Stater,
New York is alos rapidly becoming an Islamic city.
It wouldn’t be targetted next time.
We will take over peacefully!
Comment by Umar Lee — December 12, 2007 @ 11:53 am
I assume you mean also, but it is apparent you don’t live here as there are a fair amount of Muslims who do live here. They have jobs, support their family and contribute to society, all things I doubt you do.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:58 amSections 2 (a) and (b) clearly show that threatened infliction and threatened administration to disrupt profoundly the senses is torture.
Every statement I have heard from those who have been waterboarded say they were believing they were drowning.
Our laws show this is torture. end of the debate.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:58 amComment by The Republic of Stupidity — December 12, 2007 @ 11:56 am
Stick it bum leftist
December 12th, 2007 at 11:58 amSo, we have a troll plague going on.
Ignore.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:58 amBigfoot, is this the way the threads normally regress here or is it just one or two of them that engage in such a manner?
Comment by Shaldag — December 12, 2007 @ 11:45 am
From the syntax of this comment, I have to wonder, is the NRC still outsourcing its trolling offseas?
December 12th, 2007 at 11:59 amBigfoot, is this the way the threads normally regress here or is it just one or two of them that engage in such a manner?
Comment by Shaldag — December 12, 2007 @ 11:45 am
these threads nomally regress as soon as traitors and antiAmerican scum like you and bigfoot show up to throw your antiAmerican lies and bullshit around. None of you on the far right has any respect for the law, or other human beings, so don’t expect any coming back at you. You are reviled by real Americans, and your disregard for the Constitution and for civilized law is marking you as targets when we clean the USA of rightwing scumsuckers like you. You’ve been warned.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:59 amWhich would lead one to believe (since SEAL’s and others have been enduring such training for decades) that capture by our enemies could lead to waterboarding being inflicted on them.
Shoots down the argument that others will only do it us only because we have done it to them.
Comment by Shaldag — December 12, 2007 @ 11:48 am
Shorter Shaldag: The Nazis did it, so why have the debate anyway.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:59 amIgnore.
Comment by Juan C. — December 12, 2007 @ 11:58 am
Must be the warm weather somewhere.
They’re hatching out of the ground like crazy this morning.
December 12th, 2007 at 12:00 pmMissouri is a modorn, intelligent and nicely conservative state. Think or shut up.
Comment by JD Murphy — December 12, 2007 @ 11:57 am
Try that yourself, you Missouri Moron. The Know-nothing state.
December 12th, 2007 at 12:00 pmI live in New York City, target #1 for terrorists. Very few people here support this president and his policies because we understand (we’re not dumb like you) that his policies make us much less safe. Go travel, see the world and stop being a sniveling coward.
Yet on 9/12/01 the citizens of NYC joined the rest of the nation in demanding to know why this attack happened and why it wasn’t stopped.
I have traveled the world and I have seen the options available outside of the U.S. I’ll take this nation anytime.
December 12th, 2007 at 12:00 pmWhat a bizarre logical disconnect. On the one hand, lying, bedwetting scum like Kit Bond, Captain Mantastic, and O. Bigfoot try to argue in one way or another that waterboarding is not torture, but on the other hand they rationalize its use to extract information from people. If waterboarding is not physically coercive, then why would it facilitate the extraction of information? The person being waterboarded is induced to provide information that they would not otherwise provide because they are being subjected to physical pain. That equals torture. Period. Any attempt to argue otherwise is patently illogical and therefore patently dishonest.
December 12th, 2007 at 12:01 pmThere is no means of dealing with these people. They lie and distort. They are incapable of genuine moral values. They must simply be eliminated by any and all means possible. The political system has failed. It is time to seriously discuss the change of our government through other means.
December 12th, 2007 at 12:02 pmI’ll take this nation anytime.
Comment by Shaldag — December 12, 2007 @ 12:00 pm
Sorry, but a weekend in a Tiajuana cathouse doesn’t count.
December 12th, 2007 at 12:02 pmRe: waterboarding:
Haven’t time to read the whole comment thread, but if a link to this hasn’t been posted here yet, it should have been- Malcolm Nance, quoted from http://smallwarsjournal.com/ blog/ 2007/ 10/ waterboarding-is-torture-perio/
“There is No Debate Except for Torture Apologists
1. Waterboarding is a torture technique. Period. There is no way to gloss over it or sugarcoat it. It has no justification outside of its limited role as a training demonstrator. Our service members have to learn that the will to survive requires them accept and understand that they may be subjected to torture, but that America is better than its enemies and it is one’s duty to trust in your nation and God, endure the hardships and return home with honor.
2. Waterboarding is not a simulation. Unless you have been strapped down to the board, have endured the agonizing feeling of the water overpowering your gag reflex, and then feel your throat open and allow pint after pint of water to involuntarily fill your lungs, you will not know the meaning of the word.
Waterboarding is a controlled drowning that, in the American model, occurs under the watch of a doctor, a psychologist, an interrogator and a trained strap-in/strap-out team. It does not simulate drowning, as the lungs are actually filling with water. There is no way to simulate that. The victim is drowning. How much the victim is to drown depends on the desired result (in the form of answers to questions shouted into the victim’s face) and the obstinacy of the subject. A team doctor watches the quantity of water that is ingested and for the physiological signs which show when the drowning effect goes from painful psychological experience, to horrific suffocating punishment to the final death spiral.
Waterboarding is slow motion suffocation with enough time to contemplate the inevitability of black out and expiration –usually the person goes into hysterics on the board. For the uninitiated, it is horrifying to watch and if it goes wrong, it can lead straight to terminal hypoxia. When done right it is controlled death. Its lack of physical scarring allows the victim to recover and be threaten with its use again and again…”
December 12th, 2007 at 12:02 pmI have traveled the world and I have seen the options available outside of the U.S.
Comment by Shaldag
For example? And be specific, what did you eat, how many people did you meet, what they talk about, how was the TV news?
December 12th, 2007 at 12:02 pmI have traveled the world and I have seen the options available outside of the U.S. I’ll take this nation anytime.
Comment by Shaldag — December 12, 2007 @ 12:00 pm
you’re a liar, so who could possibly care what you think? You’ve never seen the options outside of the US, or you wouldn’t be puking up such dishonest, ignorant garbage.
December 12th, 2007 at 12:03 pmAdd Shaldag to my list of lying, bedwetting scum.
December 12th, 2007 at 12:03 pmWaterboard=Torture
OR
Blowjob=sex
O those good ol’ days gone by, seems like such a long time ago.
December 12th, 2007 at 12:03 pmWhich of course, leads us right back to the ultimate goal of today’s far-left.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 12, 2007 @ 12:02 pm
As opposed to the ultimate goal of today’s far-right, as typified by yourself?
Ching-ching-ching-a-ling. Quite tha outfit.
December 12th, 2007 at 12:03 pmYet on 9/12/01 the citizens of NYC joined the rest of the nation in demanding to know why this attack happened and why it wasn’t stopped.
Comment by Shaldag — December 12, 2007 @ 12:00 pm
And yet, herr dubyah and his reich-wing administration have yet to capture or kill the person responsible for the acts on 9/11 and the reich-wingers have yet to hold herr dubyah responsible for stopping the attacks that he knew were coming.
December 12th, 2007 at 12:03 pmA co-worker who was waterboarded in the military stated that you could get anyone to admit to anything by such means.
If the Iranians had used this technique with the hostages in the late 1970s, they could have had each and every one of them on tape admitting to being spies or worse.
The redefinitions of terms and values is all too reminiscent of that which occurred in Germany from the 1920s to the mid-1940s.
“It matters not whether these weapons of ours are humane: if they gain us our freedom, they are justified before our conscience and before our God.” - Adolf Hitler, in Munich, 01 Aug. 1923
December 12th, 2007 at 12:04 pmI just felt sorry for Bigfoot.
December 12th, 2007 at 12:04 pmIts lack of physical scarring allows the victim to recover and be threaten with its use again and again…â€
Comment by And Yet… — December 12, 2007 @ 12:02 pm
Apparently they had hundreds of hours of this stuff taped.
Saturday Night At The Movies, BruschCo Style!
December 12th, 2007 at 12:05 pmI have traveled the world
Comment by Shaldag — December 12, 2007 @ 12:00 pm
Surfing the Internet in your mother’s basement does not equate to “traveling the world”, reich-winger.
December 12th, 2007 at 12:05 pmI live in New York City, target #1 for terrorists. Very few people here support this president and his policies because we understand (we’re not dumb like you) that his policies make us much less safe. Go travel, see the world and stop being a sniveling coward.
Yet on 9/12/01 the citizens of NYC joined the rest of the nation in demanding to know why this attack happened and why it wasn’t stopped.
I have traveled the world and I have seen the options available outside of the U.S. I’ll take this nation anytime.
Comment by Shaldag — December 12, 2007 @ 12:00 pm
And we saw that Bush did nothing, that’s why it happened, and his policies are crap and make this country less safe and make the US a pariah.
December 12th, 2007 at 12:05 pmI really doubt you have ever left whatever crap state in which you reside (I purposely don’t say live, as you just exist), because anyone with your narrow-minded, cowardly views couldn’t possibly have actually experienced other cultures. And if you did ever leave the country, you were the ugly American asking why people don’t speak English ad where the nearest McDonalds was as the food here tastes funny.
Comment by Lefty Patriot — December 12, 2007 @ 12:00 pm
Bumshit communist with no money
December 12th, 2007 at 12:05 pmI just felt sorry for Bigfoot.
Comment by Juan C. — December 12, 2007 @ 12:04 pm
Just wait till he sobers up and sees those pictures of himself in that outfit.
December 12th, 2007 at 12:05 pmShorter Shaldag: The Nazis did it, so why have the debate anyway.
Comment by Dumb_Fox — December 12, 2007 @ 11:59 am
The basis of the debate is that if we do it, our soldiers will have it done to them too. It has been done to them already which is one of the reasons our SF guys and others get exposed to the procedure, such treatment is expected.
It is naive to believe that such a practice wouldn’t occur even if it were officially condemned, not when national security is at stake.
December 12th, 2007 at 12:06 pmUmar Troll, Would you rather die by beheading or as collateral damage? Intentinal, singled out or just an oops?
December 12th, 2007 at 12:06 pmWhich of course, leads us right back to the ultimate goal of today’s far-left.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 12, 2007 @ 12:02 pm
of course, reagan-like conservatism never existed, therefore couldn’t possible work. Reqagan-like communism is what you’re talking about, where the rich get richer on the backs of the middle class. Clinton had a far better economy than reagan, and left the USA with the biggest surplus in history. reagan very nearly led us into complete failure, and Bush has followed in his footsteps, creating a sick ecenomy, a weak military and an amoral governmet. conservatism has historically always failed, from Hitler to Stalin and on. The USA grew strongest when it embraced its liberal values, and weakest when smothered by conservative greed and ignorance. you should read some history, bigfoot, you obviously never have cracked a book, nor read the Constitution.
December 12th, 2007 at 12:07 pmSurfing the Internet in your mother’s basement does not equate to “traveling the worldâ€, reich-winger.
Comment by Dr. Matt — December 12, 2007 @ 12:05 pm
That’s actually the crawl space under the double wide. He calls it the basement for vanity’s sake.
December 12th, 2007 at 12:07 pmKit! - You’re supposed to be bailing water OUT of the boat, not IN!!!!
December 12th, 2007 at 12:07 pmThe basis of the debate is that if we do it, our soldiers will have it done to them too. It has been done to them already which is one of the reasons our SF guys and others get exposed to the procedure, such treatment is expected.
Comment by Shaldag — December 12, 2007 @ 12:06 pm
The reason why certain military members are waterboarded is to show them what torture is like. Fact.
December 12th, 2007 at 12:07 pmSo, can anyone cite a situation (sourced) where insurgents captured members of the U. S. military and subjected them to waterboarding?
If this is such an effective and humane technique, it would only seem reasonable that they would use it as well — to save lives on their side.
December 12th, 2007 at 12:08 pmComment by Lefty Patriot — December 12, 2007 @ 12:00 pm
Bumshit communist with no money
Comment by JD Murphy — December 12, 2007 @ 12:05 pm
JD, you really need that GED if that’s all you can muster out of your fetid swamp of a brain and that filthy piehole of yours. No wonder the GOP is dead, waiting for the left to bury it next year.
December 12th, 2007 at 12:08 pmComment by O. Bigfoot — December 12, 2007 @ 12:02 pm
Scumbag, never responded to my post as to why you support the terrorists, because your positions and those of this administration you love do just that.
December 12th, 2007 at 12:08 pmTorture is illegal. Waterboarding is illegal. The USA should be strong enough to obey the law.
December 12th, 2007 at 12:08 pmOl’ Biggie don’t even need to listen to Rush no more - he just opens his mouth, closes his eyes, and out comes the voice of “The Flaccid One”
December 12th, 2007 at 12:09 pmThanks to bigfoot, JD, captain manhandler and Jason Hitler for 9/11. good job, traitors!
December 12th, 2007 at 12:09 pmAnd we saw that Bush did nothing, that’s why it happened
Then we had better get used to using waterboarding and every other method available to us because our terrorist enemies are pretty good. The 911 hijackers manage to commit the worst terrorist attack in American history, and it only took eight months of planning.
December 12th, 2007 at 12:10 pmIn short, real Reagan-Like Conservatism works every time it is tried, while the experimentation with modern-day liberalism has nothing to show for itself but a sense of disunity, loss of national identity, and other indications of utter failure which could very well destroy the United States if allowed to continue.
Which of course, leads us right back to the ultimate goal of today’s far-left.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 12, 2007 @ 12:02 pm
You’re so detached from reality, Bigfoot, that it’s impossible to list the hundreds of ways in which this is just flat wrong. Conservatives, Reagan-ish or otherwise, have had ample opportunity to prove their theories work, they’ve had control of all three branches of the federal government for years, and yet they’ve proven only the opposite: their theories don’t work and conservatives are systemically incapable of governing.
Take a look at American history some time without your blinders and you’ll realize that the periods of greatest growth have been those periods when we were out from under the thumb of repressive “conservative” ideologues.
December 12th, 2007 at 12:11 pmSo, can anyone cite a situation (sourced) where insurgents captured members of the U. S. military and subjected them to waterboarding?
If this is such an effective and humane technique, it would only seem reasonable that they would use it as well — to save lives on their side.
Comment by curmudgeon — December 12, 2007 @ 12:08 pm
Seems like they’re more civilized than American rightwingers. Of course, rightards have to give up any moral code to become rightards, so it makes sense that teh insurgents wouild have more morals than the american right wing.
December 12th, 2007 at 12:11 pmThe 911 hijackers manage to commit the worst terrorist attack in American history, and it only took eight months of planning.
Comment by Shaldag
…and some really extraordinary coincidences, I might add.
December 12th, 2007 at 12:12 pmThink of how quickly we could have ended World War II and the tens of thousands of lives saved if we’d only used this technique back then.
The fact that it is being routinely used now must explain why the United States has succeeded so quickly in Iraq (although the U.S. now holds about a 12 to 1 advantage in terms of population, hasn’t been ravaged by sanctions for more than a decade and a half, and spends more than the rest of the world for military gadgetry).
December 12th, 2007 at 12:13 pmI’ll take this nation anytime.
Comment by Shaldag — December 12, 2007 @ 12:00 pm
It’s WHERE you take our nation that concerns us.
December 12th, 2007 at 12:13 pmThe neocons are taking our nation away from the morality and the democracy on which it was founded and prospered for generations. We cannot let them take this nation any further than they have.
The 911 hijackers manage to commit the worst terrorist attack in American history, and it only took eight months of planning.
Comment by Shaldag — December 12, 2007 @ 12:10 pm
That’s only because they saw an incompetent moron installed in the White House, and they saw him choose a completely unqualified, rather stupid person as head of NSA. They knew right then and there that a successful attack had a good chance; it’s impossible to underestimate the ability of George Bush to fail the American people. He’s batting 1.000.
December 12th, 2007 at 12:14 pmSuppose Bond would also tell us that being placed on the rack would not be much different than a visit to the chiropractor?
December 12th, 2007 at 12:14 pmThe reason why certain military members are waterboarded is to show them what torture is like. Fact.
Seems odd that we would torture our own people, leaving them scarred for life.
Our troops are also exposed to harsh lighting, lack of sleep, mental and physical anguish, shouting and cursing…and that is just in boot camp.