CIA destroyed torture tapes despite court order.
By on Dec 12th, 2007 at 9:44 am
CIA destroyed torture tapes despite court order.
“The Bush administration was under court order not to discard evidence of detainee torture and abuse months before the CIA destroyed videotapes that revealed some of its harshest interrogation tactics,” reports AP.
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So, did anyone expect anything different?
December 12th, 2007 at 9:46 ambush, cheney and ALL FOLLOWERS deserve nothing less than what evil saddam got….
a 3 foot rope with a 12 foot drop!
December 12th, 2007 at 9:47 amDems need to stand fast on this issue. Olbermann mentioned last night in his conversation with Howard Fineman that purse strings might be the only leverage we have, but its time to use it! Make all funding requests contingent on full cooperation from the Executive branch (and whatever Cheney is calling himself these days). We can easily frame this in language everyone can understand.
America does not torture, the President himself said so. If that is true, we need to know everything about what is going on or there should be no more funding for anything. My taxes pay for the Federal Government and I demand accountability!
December 12th, 2007 at 9:49 amSOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo…….
then who ordered the destruction of those tapes????
December 12th, 2007 at 9:49 amIt’ll be interesting to see what our representatives in congress do – actually take some action? Naaaaa
BTW I think #2’s comment was a bit extreme and perhaps should be deleted.
December 12th, 2007 at 9:52 amBut they all said it wasn’t torture, therefore it was OK to destroy the tapes.
December 12th, 2007 at 9:52 amMy taxes pay for the Federal Government and I demand accountability!
Comment by OptimisticMF — December 12, 2007 @ 9:49 am
accountability? **snicker**
Accountability??? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA… HAHAH…
Oh… you meant it. Sorry. I thought you were making a funny. My bad.
December 12th, 2007 at 9:52 amCourt orders, subponeas, official letters, they’re just small distractions to the deciderer.
13 months is a long time. If the Dems can circle the wagons tight enough, maybe some inroads can be made to serve justice to these ingrates.
Prison sentences are much too mild a punishment. I say drop them in the middle of Afghanistan. Let’s see how macho the Bushies are under fire.
December 12th, 2007 at 9:58 am#5 Thanks for your opinion. Let him express his as well.
December 12th, 2007 at 9:59 amI’m nostalgic for that quaint old concept: the Rule of Law.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:00 amSo what is going to happen now because of this? I am guessing a whole not of nothing.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:00 am#2: Ummm… you seem to have left out the part about a fair trial.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:02 ambut…but…but…the LAWYERS told them they could do it! Were the lawyers not aware of the court order? If that’s the case, they are morons who are woefully overpaid. Or did the lawyers (having all graduated from Dick Cheney Law School) just assume that a court order specifically forbidding them from doing what they advocated doing just didn’t apply to them?
The law-breaking is getting too hard to ignore here, folks.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:04 amLet him express his as well.
Comment by Bluedahlia — December 12, 2007 @ 9:59 am
When you start advocating for people’s deaths, that just might be crossing a line. i understand the sentiment, but…
December 12th, 2007 at 10:05 am#2: Ummm… you seem to have left out the part about a fair trial.
Comment by gah — December 12, 2007 @ 10:02 am
hey, they should reap what they sow.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:06 amThe law-breaking is getting too hard to ignore here, folks.
Comment by missmolly — December 12, 2007 @ 10:04 am
i wonder how many of them were Regent grads?
December 12th, 2007 at 10:06 am#5 – TREASON IS PUNISHABLE BY DEATH. quit being an apologist.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:08 amCourt order? So what? Who pays attention to court orders? Or subpoenas? Leave us alone and let us get to doin’ the nation’s bidniss.
Oops, sorry, I was channeling Dumbya for a second there.
Ew. Now I gotta go shower with bleach.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:09 amComment by The Republic of Stupidity — December 12, 2007 @ 10:06 am
I hate big government almost as much as GED holders.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:09 ambegin issuing the arrest warrants ASAP!
December 12th, 2007 at 10:10 amActually, it should probably read:
CIA destroyed torture tapes because of a court order telling them not to.
So, what is anyone going to do about it? Probably what has been done thus far with the Bush Crime Family….and that would be nothing!
I am finding it very disturbing that the Democrats are so quiet these days. Why has Pelosi not told her side of the story? Why are the Democrats not mad at the Bushies for leaking national secrets to embarrass a couple of Democrats? Are the Democrats ever going to stiffen their spines and fight back?
December 12th, 2007 at 10:10 am#12 – you forgot to put the quotes “-” around “fair trial.”
December 12th, 2007 at 10:10 am#2: Ummm… you seem to have left out the part about a fair trial.
Comment by gah — December 12, 2007 @ 10:02 am
hey, they should reap what they sow.
Comment by Lefty Patriot — December 12, 2007 @ 10:06 am
Yes, but not without a fair trial* and a guilty verdict first.
* Assuming the broken Judiciary can be repaired…
December 12th, 2007 at 10:10 am#7, Just because we haven’t gotten it, doesn’t mean that we should stop demanding it. We have the government we deserve, it will only change when we start acting interested and making demands, loudly and often.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:11 amDems took big wins yesterday in Virginia and Ohio. I’m now feeling the wrath of my 24%-ness
December 12th, 2007 at 10:11 am#23 – why a trial? bush is on record ADMITTING to breaking the law…. skip the kangaroo court and get on with the sentencing and start healing the good old USofA.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:12 amContempt of court? Not so much as contempt for the Constitution and all other uncoequal branches, north, south west and east of D.C., somewhat.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:15 amHey guys, let’s start limiting free speech here too. I mean, fan of man might be a homegrown terrorist, right? So his opinion is no longer valid because he expressed an emotional opinion, right? I mean jeeze, he might offend someone!
For Christ’s sake. You fools are doing their work for them. You make me sick. Limit away. You have become what you say you abhor.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:16 amHas fan of man committed a crime or become violent? NO! Then STFU with your “he crossed the line” bullsh!t.
Because we are a nation of laws.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:16 amI hate democrat interference as much as I do GED holders.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:16 amSorry, “Umar”, this thread isn’t about “Muslim issues”.
Please stay on topic.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:16 amFocus people, focus.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:17 am#23 – why a trial? bush is on record ADMITTING to breaking the law…. skip the kangaroo court and get on with the sentencing and start healing the good old USofA.
Comment by Fan of Man — December 12, 2007 @ 10:12 am
Because that’s not how we do things is the USA (at least not before Bush/Cheney). What you describe sounds more like the way things were done in Iraq under Saddam.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:17 amAnyone besides me think Umar Lee is a plant?
December 12th, 2007 at 10:17 amRamu the eel is back, with his nonsensical fantasies. Get a life Ramu.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:18 amNO! Then STFU with your “he crossed the line†bullsh!t.
Comment by Bluedahlia — December 12, 2007 @ 10:16 am
So, now YOU get to decide what people can say?
Good work!!!!
He crossed the line.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:18 amBlueDahlia, yes, a cactus.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:18 am#34 – how do we do things in usa? we TORTURE, we STEAL, we LIE, we CHEAT, we have an ENDLESS list…..
is that your America? its not mine.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:19 amAlright, lets see here.
We’ve already scratched the 4th Amendment
and now we can take away Article 3 (the Judicial Branch), but I think there should be an adendum which allows the Judicial Branch’s rulings to only apply when they are adverse Roe v Wade.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:19 amrepublic of stupidity, why do you hate America?
December 12th, 2007 at 10:20 amHe did not. He expressed what a lot of us feel. Period. Expressing how you feel verbally is how you end up NOT expressing it physically. Otherwise known as repression. Which you seem to advocate.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:21 amBTW I think #2’s comment was a bit extreme and perhaps should be deleted.
Comment by stefan — December 12, 2007 @ 9:52 am
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Dream on baby
i think its right on the money!
I think TORTURE IS THE THING THATS EXTREME.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:21 amRU, heh!
December 12th, 2007 at 10:21 amComment by The Republic of Stupidity — December 12, 2007 @ 10:18 am
You must of attended a public school, dope. I left public school in 9th grade, couldnt been better for it.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:22 amComment by missmolly: but…but…but…the LAWYERS told them they could do it! Were the lawyers not aware of the court order?
Apparently Harriet Meiers advised against it. I doubt she did so very strenuously, probably just did it to cover her own ass.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:22 amhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treason
Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.
The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.
However, Congress has, at times, passed statutes creating related offenses which undermine the government or the national security, (such as sedition in the 1798 Alien and Sedition Acts, or espionage and sabotage in the 1917 Espionage Act) which do not require the testimony of two witnesses and have a much broader definition than Article Three treason. For example, some well-known spies have been convicted of espionage rather than treason.
The Constitution does not itself create the offense; it only restricts the definition. The crime is prohibited by legislation passed by Congress. Therefore the United States Code at 18 U.S.C. § 2381 states “whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.” The requirement of testimony of two witnesses was inherited from the British Treason Act 1695.
In the history of the United States there have been fewer than 40 federal prosecutions for treason and even fewer convictions. Several men were convicted of treason in connection with the 1794 Whiskey Rebellion but were pardoned by President George Washington. The most famous treason trial, that of Aaron Burr in 1807 (See Burr conspiracy), resulted in acquittal. Politically motivated attempts to convict opponents of the Jeffersonian Embargo Acts and the Fugitive Slave Law of 1850 all failed. Most states have provisions in their constitutions or statutes similar to those in the U.S. Constitution. There have been only two successful prosecutions for treason on the state level, that of Thomas Dorr in Rhode Island and that of John Brown in Virginia.
After the American Civil War, no person involved with the Confederate States of America was tried for treason, though a number of leading Confederates (including Jefferson Davis and Robert E. Lee) were indicted. Those who had been indicted received a blanket amnesty issued by President Andrew Johnson as he left office in 1869.
Several people generally thought of as traitors in the United States, including Jonathan Pollard, the Walker Family, Robert Soblen, and Julius and Ethel Rosenberg, were not prosecuted for treason, but rather for espionage. John Walker Lindh, an American citizen who fought for the Taliban against the U.S.-supported Northern Alliance, was convicted of conspiracy to murder U.S. nationals rather than treason.
The Cold War saw frequent associations between treason and support for (or insufficient hostility toward) Communist-backed causes. The most memorable of these came from Senator Joseph McCarthy, who characterized the Franklin Delano Roosevelt and Harry Truman administrations as “twenty years of treason.” McCarthy also investigated various government agencies for Soviet spy rings; however, he acted as a political fact-finder rather than criminal prosecutor. Despite such rhetoric, the Cold War period saw few prosecutions for treason.
On October 11, 2006, a federal grand jury issued the first indictment for treason against the United States since 1952, charging Adam Yahiye Gadahn for videos in which he spoke supportively of al-Qaeda.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:23 amSorry, “Umarâ€, this thread isn’t about “Muslim issuesâ€.
Please stay on topic.
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — December 12, 2007 @ 10:16 am
Umar could be on topic, although indirectly. The detainees being tortured on the videotapes could very well have been Muslims. Furthermore, the Muslim community is watching very carefully to see how the U.S. treats its detainees, since so many are being held without access to counsel, without habeus corpus, and sometimes just BECAUSE they are Muslims and look scary.
The Muslims I know have no sympathy whatsoever for actual terrorists. However they are getting weary with the way our country treats Muslims in general.
When Umar says that this issue angers him as a Muslim, I’m inclined to believe him.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:23 amGED Holders = Democrats
December 12th, 2007 at 10:24 amYou must of attended a public school, dope. I left public school in 9th grade, couldnt been better for it. -Comment by JD Murphy
Dope in public schools? The shame!
Yes, we’ve known for some time you left school in 9th grade. It’s clear in your opinions that you’ve been somewhat ’sheltered’.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:24 amrepublic of stupidity, why do you hate America?
Comment by Fan of Man — December 12, 2007 @ 10:20 am
Sorry, but this is getting ridiculous.
People advocating for the deaths of public officials, deserved or not, occasionally get visits from the Secret Service, deserved or not, ya know.
Yer acting like this is some sort of “private chat line”, which it’s not. It’s a public website, and I have no doubt that folks you don’t want to know are checking this out all the time. What was that absurd but nonetheless passed bill in the House last week?
Something about internet extremism and homegrown terraists?
December 12th, 2007 at 10:25 amYou must of attended a public school, dope. I left public school in 9th grade, couldnt been better for it.
Comment by JD Murphy — December 12, 2007 @ 10:22 am
It’s pretty clear you left school in the 9th grade, JD.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:26 amWhen Umar says that this issue angers him as a Muslim, I’m inclined to believe him.
Comment by missmolly — December 12, 2007 @ 10:23 am
“Umar” isn’t here to debate or add to the conversation. “Umar” is here to be disruptive and annoying, period.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:27 am#55 – you mean the internets aren’t private? oh my god! i thought we all knew each other and this was a private line…. oh my goodness. thanks for clearing that up.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:27 amComment by gah: #2: Ummm… you seem to have left out the part about a fair trial.
Comment by Lefty Patriot: They, they should reap what they sow.
And then what is it that we must reap as a consequence of our actions?
December 12th, 2007 at 10:28 amMy problem with Umar is his statement about a “Muslim/Progressive alliance”, there is no such thing that I know of, nor do I want one. We are discussing right vs. wrong here, not us vs. them.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:28 am#52 Really….?
Liberals have the highest education level of any typology group 49% are college graduates and 26% have some postgraduate education.
http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?PageID=945
December 12th, 2007 at 10:29 amthanks for clearing that up.
Comment by Fan of Man — December 12, 2007 @ 10:27 am
Gee, yer really on top of yer game this morning.
Just like a marble… all sharp edges.
I said I agreed w/ yer sentiment, dumdum. And I still think that’s not a good thing to say on a public website. THAT’S all I said.
Or are YOU advocating censorship now?
December 12th, 2007 at 10:30 amThis is all well and good, but until we get a constitutional amendment curbing the power of the pardon, we all no that no one is going to get the justice they have coming for this.
Sad.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:31 amAnd then what is it that we must reap as a consequence of our actions?
Comment by boreas — December 12, 2007 @ 10:28 am
Freedom.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:31 amComment by JD Murphy: I hate big government almost as much as GED holders.
What on earth did a GED holder ever do to you?
December 12th, 2007 at 10:31 amZimzone I left public school for private school. I am now opening a business and GED holders wont be hired. Its government runned.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:31 amHardly the first time the self-appointed decider believes that he is above any order from the courts, Congress, or the Constitution. After all, that’s what all those signing statements are about-he alone decides what laws to obey or ignore.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:32 amProgressives and Muslims have Common enemies.
We are allies!
Comment by Umar Lee — December 12, 2007 @ 10:30 am
maybe, maybe not. the Koran has no more place in American political life than the Bible or the Talmud. USA was founded as a secular nation. Becoming a Muslim nation would be no improvement over the Christianist’s claim.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:33 amWhat on earth did a GED holder ever do to you?
Comment by boreas — December 12, 2007 @ 10:31 am
A GED holder has something JD will NEVER have – a GED. It’s envy.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:33 amWhat on earth did a GED holder ever do to you?
Comment by boreas — December 12, 2007 @ 10:31 am
Outsmarted, outearned and outspelled him, from the looks of it.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:33 amUmar,
We may have common enemies, but we do not share common ideals. I do not agree with your statement: “We must continue to De-Christianize America!”. We should ensure that government does not enforce any religon, but rather provide freedom of worship and belief for all.
We must enforce the laws and speak up for truth, whereever that may lead. If our elected leaders have broken the law, we must not shy away from doing what is right. I don’t have an agenda beyond that.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:34 amComment by Bluedahlia — December 12, 2007 @ 10:29 am
A private secondary education is better than a public college degree. Even if a democrat gets a GED and goes on to get a bachelors and masters degree the one who attended the private secondary school has better educational achevement.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:35 amZimzone I left public school for private school. I am now opening a business and GED holders wont be hired. Its government runned.
-Comment by JD Murphy
I know GED holders who spell much better than you. ‘Runned’? Are you talking about your underwear or your education?
You remind me of Jason, ‘Born stupid & living up to low expectations.’
December 12th, 2007 at 10:35 amComment by Lefty Patriot — December 12, 2007 @ 10:33 am
You need t STFU
December 12th, 2007 at 10:36 amZimzone I left public school for private school. I am now opening a business and GED holders wont be hired. Its government runned.
Comment by JD Murphy — December 12, 2007 @ 10:31 am
They must not have taught grammar and spelling at whatever “school” you attended.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:37 amComment by The Republic of Stupidity — December 12, 2007 @ 10:33 am
Liar to the LEFT.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:38 amA private secondary education is better than a public college degree. Even if a democrat gets a GED and goes on to get a bachelors and masters degree the one who attended the private secondary school has better educational achevement.
Comment by JD Murphy — December 12, 2007 @ 10:35 am
This one must be dumber than a rock.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:38 am#34 – how do we do things in usa? we TORTURE, we STEAL, we LIE, we CHEAT, we have an ENDLESS list…..
is that your America? its not mine.
Comment by Fan of Man — December 12, 2007 @ 10:19 am
You seem to have missed my “at least not before Bush/Cheney”.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:38 amComment by JD Murphy — December 12, 2007 @ 10:35 am
My statement hasn’t been challenged in time so it stands.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:39 amComment by VerbalKint — December 12, 2007 @ 10:38 am
Im very smart. I left 9th grade, my dad got me a new Ford mustang and I was off to the America way of education, private schooll.
Stop insulting my spelling. Why insult something thats normal?
December 12th, 2007 at 10:41 amMy statement hasn’t been challenged in time so it stands.
Comment by JD Murphy — December 12, 2007 @ 10:39 am
Here is something to think about, cretin: I have a GED and a PhD, and I attended only public schools.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:42 amComment by VerbalKint — December 12, 2007 @ 10:37 am
My school cost $15000 a year and was nice school. The quality of education was bettr because it was exclusive.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:43 amComment by VerbalKint — December 12, 2007 @ 10:42 am
So what. PhD is nothing.
The future of america education is conservative.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:45 amComment by VerbalKint — December 12, 2007 @ 10:42 am
So what. PhD is nothing.
The future of america education is private.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:45 amBack on topic: clearly the Bush administration is involved in the destruction of these tapes and is guilty (yet again) of obstructing justice.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:46 amUmar,
The fact that your religion is political is a big part of the problem. You can’t mix faith and reason, at least not when it comes to governance. You can’t enforce faith and you can’t legislate belief. If you want to live under Sharia law, that is your business. I prefer to worship the Flying Spaghetti Monster (in all His noodly glory), but I can’t make you dress like a pirate.
We are not allies and your cause is not just.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:46 am“JD Murphy’s Law” = if I can spell, type, calculate, deduce, infer, or perceive it wrong, I will
December 12th, 2007 at 10:46 amFU, Umar Lee
No muslims will be in my way. Our values will be there.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:47 amThe future of america education is conservative.
Comment by JD Murphy — December 12, 2007 @ 10:45 am
This guy obviously got his diploma from the bottom of a crackerjack box.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:47 amComment by Bluedahlia: Has fan of man committed a crime or become violent? NO!
He’s advocating a crime. In his first post Fan of Man calls for the hanging (lynching) of “bush, cheney and ALL FOLLOWERS”. In a later post (s)he states that a trial would be unnecessary.
Then STFU with your “he crossed the line†bullsh!t.
Nobody actually said that, you know.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:49 amAnyone now still think he isn’t a plant?
December 12th, 2007 at 10:49 amThe future of america education is conservative.
Brilliant grammatical construction. Oh, the irony.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:49 amVerbal,
Yes, let’s stay on topic please. Any thoughts on where this will lead? I am concerned because, again referencing “Countdown”, Olbermann mentioned that the “gang of four” in the House and Senate were made aware of this activity years ago, which means that Reid and Pelosi are not likely to push this very hard if they are somehow culpable.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:49 amComment by The Republic of Stupidity — December 12, 2007 @ 10:49 am
What are you talking about, poory?
December 12th, 2007 at 10:50 amUmar and JD are two sides of the same coin.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:50 am5 will get you 10, that Umar Lee’s comments will show up in O’Reilly’s show this week as proof of the Islamofascist-Liberal alliance.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:51 amNobody actually said that, you know.
Comment by boreas — December 12, 2007 @ 10:49 am
I actually said “he might have crossed a line”, and after bluedahlia pushed back, I did say “He crossed a line”.
And I agree w/ your statement. i also said I could relate to fan of man’s sentiment. Sheesh…
December 12th, 2007 at 10:51 amThe future of America is Atheism and Islam!
Comment by Umar Lee — December 12, 2007 @ 10:46 am
Why don’t you stfu and go back to your troll box, Joker
December 12th, 2007 at 10:52 amNobody actually said that, you know.
Not with those specific words, no. What was your point? Semantics?
December 12th, 2007 at 10:52 amHe’s not advocating a crime. He’s expressing an opinion. Get over yourself.
Comment by Wayne — December 12, 2007 @ 10:47 am
Whatever. I paid for my diploma and made my case. The conservative has the right mind.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:52 amGet over yourself.
Comment by Bluedahlia — December 12, 2007 @ 10:52 am
Of course, one could say the same to you too. Get over yourself.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:53 amUmar,
Progressives will come to your aid when you are attacked because we understand the persecution is unlawful and we believe in a system of laws. We will not come to your aid when you want “special” rights.
When Muslims attacked the United States, where were you?
We have no alliance.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:54 am#110 – “The conservative has the right mind.” Comment by JD Murphy — December 12, 2007 @ 10:52 am
But conservatives always make the wrong choices.
Can’t have everything!
December 12th, 2007 at 10:54 amComment by JD Murphy: You must of attended a public school, dope. I left public school in 9th grade, couldnt been better for it.
With the possible exception of spelling and grammar.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:55 amComment by OptimisticMF — December 12, 2007 @ 10:54 am
well said.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:55 amTRoS,
December 12th, 2007 at 10:55 amSo sorry you can’t get over this conversation. I’m done.
JD Stupid apparently “graduated” from a private correspondence school.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:57 amThank you hellinabucket, I’ve been a regular reader here for years and I note that your comments are always thoughtful and generally agree with my opinions. Coming from you, I appreciate the compliment.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:58 amConservatives? Where is any example of true conservative govt. in this administration? Bush has expanded the govt to the largest it ever has been so no shrinking govt. there. Our debt is over 9 trillion and not one penny has been appropriated to pay for these current conflicts so no fiscal responsibility there. And the whole family values thing is a joke. The republican front runner is having to answer why New York city had to pay for his fling.
Conservatives don’t exist in this govt.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:59 amComment by Uncle Ho — December 12, 2007 @ 10:57 am
What if the correspondence school is accredited the same as public schools?
December 12th, 2007 at 10:59 amPlease, people, both JD Murphy and Umar Lee are fictional. Don’t respond.
Republican’s write unconvincing fiction and are really bad at dialog.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:01 amI’m done.
Comment by Bluedahlia — December 12, 2007 @ 10:55 am
In more ways than one. Yer the one who can’t get over it.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:01 amComment by Peter C — December 12, 2007 @ 11:01 am
Fictional? Democrats invented GEDs. The conservative movement wants them gone. Private schools are the way.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:02 amUmar, the ACLU has also defended the right for the KKK to march. Tell me how many years has there been islamic agression against Isreal? As for Islam being given a special place, that’s only in your head. All religions are equal here.
And your Atheist and Islam comment, that is a contradictory statement.
OptimisticMF, you are welcome. I have been known to take the bait and get into the mud from time to time but I’ve made a concerted effort to keep it civil.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:03 amA fake muslim & a fake business man…
Trollphucks.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:03 amDemocrats spend there time trying to prove to conservatives that they can hang. They want to be part of us. Part of the crowd.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:04 am#119 – “Unlike other religions Islam is being given a special place, thanks to the assistance of Progressive groups!” Comment by Umar Lee — December 12, 2007 @ 10:58 am
Oh, yeah! Umar Lee is a troll! Only trolls try to make imaginary links where none exist!
December 12th, 2007 at 11:04 amAnything educational run by the government needs to go into the hands of the private sec.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:04 amComment by Zimzone — December 12, 2007 @ 11:03 am
I am better educated and welthier. Dont act like your upscale.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:06 amI am an inbred
December 12th, 2007 at 11:07 amI am the dumbest phuck on the internet as of right now.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:07 amComment by Umar Lee@#65: Progressives and Muslims have Common enemies. We are allies!
I think I’m a progressive and nobody – NOBODY – who advocate the beheading of all Christians and “Zionists” (@#40) is an ally of mine.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:07 am#125 – “Democrats invented GEDs.” Comment by JD Murphy — December 12, 2007 @ 11:02 am
Yet more proof that private schools don’t properly educate their students. Either that, or all private schools are good for is “conserva-indoctrination”. The GED was brought about by the US Military!
“In November 1942, the United States Armed Forces Institute asked the American Council on Education (ACE) to develop a battery of tests to measure high school-level academic skills. These Tests of General Educational Development gave military personnel and veterans who had entered World War II service before completing high school a way to demonstrate their knowledge. Passing these tests gave returning soldiers and sailors the academic credentials they needed to get civilian jobs.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GED
December 12th, 2007 at 11:08 amIm being imitated.
Liberals dont belong in america.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:08 am#130 – “Anything educational run by the government needs to go into the hands of the private sec.” Comment by JD Murphy — December 12, 2007 @ 11:04 am
So, you’re saying that West Point should be run by the private sector?
December 12th, 2007 at 11:09 amComment by Democrat Soldier — December 12, 2007 @ 11:08 am
Whatever.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:10 amComment by JD Murphy: I hate big government almost as much as GED holders.
Comment by boreas: What on earth did a GED holder ever do to you?
With further reading I think I’ve figured this out. What GED holders did was get one. With a 9th grade education JD Murphy would seem to be a candidate for a GED but, strangely, never managed to get one.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:11 am#136 – “Im being imitated.” Comment by JD Murphy — December 12, 2007 @ 11:08 am
Well, if you we’re properly educated, you would realize that imitation is the most sincere form of flattery.
Then again, you’ve been proving to everyone here that your education falls far short of what public school offers, so I guess you’re not going to get the joke.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:11 amThe troops don’t always matter so I dont need to hear this.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:12 am#139 – “Whatever.” Comment by JD Murphy — December 12, 2007 @ 11:10 am
Wow! I’m stung by your rapier wit! You have slain me, sir!
December 12th, 2007 at 11:12 amWere gonna win in 2008, itll be just like my bully days in high school.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:13 am#142 – “The troops don’t always matter so I dont need to hear this.” Comment by JD Murphy — December 12, 2007 @ 11:12 am
So much for the lie that conservatives “supprt the troops”.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:13 amUmar,
I’m not denying that US foreign policy has caused suffering to others in certain situations, my point is that our government should be a system of laws, not men. If bad things were done, those that committed them should be accountable. Just because it doesn’t happen enough doesn’t make it right.
I don’t know anything about foot washes and prayer rooms and honestly, I don’t care. You can do what you want in your religion, but if you expect me to bow to Mecca or swear alligence to Allah, you are going to get a boot in your backside.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:14 amComment by boreas: And then what is it that we must reap as a consequence of our actions?
Comment by Lefty Patriot: Freedom.
Freedom? Oh, you mean the freedom to ignore and trample on our values and our laws, just like the Bushies! I get it now!
Thanks.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:14 amDems are as good as disfigured people.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:14 am#144 – “Were gonna win in 2008, itll be just like my bully days in high school.” Comment by JD Murphy — December 12, 2007 @ 11:13 am
Where have I heard that tired refrain before?
Oh, it was in November of 2006, right before you lost!
December 12th, 2007 at 11:15 amComment by Democrat Soldier — December 12, 2007 @ 11:13 am
We supportt the troops more than yu.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:15 amComment by The Republic of Stupidity: A GED holder has something JD will NEVER have – a GED. It’s envy.
Yeah, I sussed that out – and posted on it before I got to your post. Sorry for doubling up. :-)
December 12th, 2007 at 11:16 amI mispelled on 11:13 am.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:16 amI meant 11: 15 am.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:17 am#153 – “We supportt the troops more than yu.” Comment by JD Murphy — December 12, 2007 @ 11:15 am
Can’t tell by how well (or badly) you underfund the VA, nor how well (or badly) you under-armour the troops or their vehicles.
As a veteran, I suppport the USO and send care packages & body armour to my friends serving in Iraq & Afghanistan. What have YOU done for the troops lately? Other than vote for Republicans that refuse to properly fund the VA and our troops?
The truth shall set you free, but first it’s going to tick you off!
Conservatives don’t support the troops as much as they claim. It’s only a lie so they can feel better about screwing the troops.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:19 amcomment by JD dipshit @ 11:13 am
We ARE the troops numbnuts! (we = veterans)
December 12th, 2007 at 11:20 amDamn! you’re dumb!
Comment by Umar Lee — December 12, 2007 @ 10:39 am
I will defend REAL Muslims who have legitimate complaints about anti-Muslim bigotry, but you are a complete fruitcake who doesn’t know anything about Islam.
“Islam unlike other religions is also political.”
– Islam itself is no more political than any other religion. However, it’s similar to other religions in that there will always be a few twisted souls who will exploit the religion to fulfill a political agenda. Muslims are not alone in this, sadly.
“We want to live under Sharia law and have special rights in American society.”
– If you want to live under Sharia law, that’s your business — except where it’s superceded by civil law (for instance, you may not stone a woman for adultery in this country). You may, however, follow your dietary laws, celebrate your holidays, dress according to your personal beliefs, pay your zakat, and follow any other tenet of your faith that’s not specifically against the law. As far as “special rights” — dream on. Nobody in this country gets that.
“Many Progressive groups agree with this and are assisting us by helping us get Foot Washes in bathrooms and Prayer rooms in College Campuses.”
– If we protect your right to worship as you choose and make it easier for you by enabling you to wash your feet and meet your prayer times, it’s because it’s the right thing to do. Do not confuse this as “agreeing” with your wish for special rights of any kind. We believe in allowing ALL people to practice their religion, not just you.
“We are allaies against the Zionist/Christian/Capitalist Axis.”
– No we’re not. And neither are REAL Muslims who understand true Islam for what it is.
“Insha’Allah!”
– At least you are placing this matter in the hands of God. Since He is my God, too, I’m not worried about your crazy agenda ever seeing the light of day.
I will readily defend you when you have a legitimate complaint about Muslims receiving unjustified cruel and unusual treatment at the hands of our government (such as may or may not have been depicted in the destroyed CIA tapes), but I don’t support crackpots. And I think that trolls who masquerade as Muslims (or anything else they are not) are abominable.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:21 amComment by Umar Lee — December 12, 2007 @ 11:20 am
Your so-called “Progressive/Islamic alliance” is a fabrication of a wild imagination. When did you register as a Republican?
December 12th, 2007 at 11:22 amComment by JD Murphy: Zimzone I left public school for private school. I am now opening a business and GED holders wont be hired. Its government runned.
Comment by VerbalKint: They must not have taught grammar and spelling at whatever “school†you attended.
My guess is he went to a charter school run by Fundies where religious and political indoctrination trumped actual education.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:22 amUmar,
I disagree. You have the right to you’re opinion and I have mine. That is part of what makes this country great. Can we return to the topic now?
December 12th, 2007 at 11:23 amComment by Uncle Ho — December 12, 2007 @ 11:20 am
Smarter then you. Your to the left.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:27 amI also dont like college students whove ever been on academic probation, even if theyve raised there GPA.
When I go to college somedy I will be 4.0 GPA Business major and will be first hire to a big company.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:29 amComment by missmolly — December 12, 2007 @ 11:21 am
Again missmolly is the most eloquent in clarifying the thoughts that many here have.
Thank you missmolly.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:30 amPublic schools are not for me.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:33 amComment by Bluedahlia: Anyone now still think he isn’t a plant?
Troll, not plant. A plant would make outrageous and contemptible statements from a supposed progressive or liberal position. That way he could bring discredit on us.
This guy just makes conservatives look like total nut jobs.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:34 amIt looks like invasion of the wacky trolls this morning, later….
December 12th, 2007 at 11:35 amComment by JD Murphy — December 12, 2007 @ 11:29 am
December 12th, 2007 at 11:37 amWhat about the company you’re starting up that is “runned” by the government? You’re starting to write contradictory statements. Also, a business degree requires a few English courses. With your grammar and spelling, I doubt that you will ace your English courses.
Comment by WaltTheMan — December 12, 2007 @ 11:37 am
At least you agree with me that students on academic probation even if they graduated on the deans list still shouldnt hired
I disagree with you on spelling. Its congent and well taught.
My business is to pay for college. Capitalism comes hand.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:41 amUmar is just a conservative for Allah. He is not my ally. I do not agree with what he states but will defend his right to say it. That is where it ends.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:42 amJD Murphy, what’s your take on the subject of this thread? Is it ok for the CIA to have destroyed these tapes after knowing they could be used as evidence for detainees as well as evidence for/against the legality of waterboarding?
December 12th, 2007 at 11:44 am#58 Ramu the Eel.
Our numbers are growing despite the attacks, the truthfulness of the Kopran can’t be stopped.
Since you just defamed the Qu’ran by misspelling it, please behead yourself.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:45 amThese advancements couldn’t happen without the help of Progressive groups.
We are allaies against the Zionist/Christian/Capitalist Axis.
We are righteous and are on the verge of a triumph!
Insha’Allah!
Comment by Umar Lee — December 12, 2007 @ 10:39 am
these are not advancements. You are on the verge of defeat if you think that progressives are interested in your foolish, backwards, evil Sharia law. The christianist nonsense is bad enough.
JD, go get a GED. At least you’ll learn English.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:50 amI am better educated and welthier. Dont act like your upscale.
Comment by JD Murphy — December 12, 2007 @ 11:06 am
Misspells wealthier and fails to use the contraction you’re…
I’d say all the money you pissed away on education could’ve done some good if donated to the Salvation Army.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:52 amWhen you have a Mafia controlled government of Fascists what do you think they will do? Follow the law, the constitution? Forget about it, do what you’re supposed to do, go about your business and shop.
Man, I just hate these scum bags and the scum bags that support them.
Bush/Cheney
Hague Trials ‘09
Buck Fush
December 12th, 2007 at 11:58 amSomeone put “the college republicans” on high alert?
What’s all the juvenile troll-blather?
December 12th, 2007 at 12:00 pmflag these idiots
December 12th, 2007 at 12:02 pmComment by WaltTheMan — December 12, 2007 @ 11:37 am
At least you agree with me that students on academic probation even if they graduated on the deans list still shouldnt hired
– “deans” should be “dean’s”.
– “shouldnt hired”should be “shouldn’t be hired.” (3 errors).
I disagree with you on spelling. Its congent and well taught.
– “congent” is not a word – Did you mean “cogent”?
– In your case, “well taught” is a misstatement.
My business is to pay for college. Capitalism comes hand.
– The first sentence is incomprehensible.
– “hand” should be “hard”.
Comment by JD Murphy — December 12, 2007 @ 11:41 am
In college English, that earns you a “Fail”.
December 12th, 2007 at 12:05 pm…will be first hire to a big company.
comment by JD dummy @ 11:29 am
yeah, well don’t give up your current McDay job.
December 12th, 2007 at 12:09 pmAnd, you should demand double your money back refund from your private school while you’re at it.
IF THE USA WAS A SERIOUS COUNTRY, THE WHITE HOUSE AND CONGRESS WOULD BE SURROUNDED BY ITS PEOPLE DEMANDING ACCOUNTABILITY! HAGE 09!
December 12th, 2007 at 12:10 pmTHE CONSTITUTION OF THE FSA, THE FACISTS STATES OF AMERCA (FORMER USA), HAS BECOME A PIECE OF ABSTRACT PAPER. WORTHED NOTHING!
December 12th, 2007 at 12:13 pmSo what. PhD is nothing.
The future of america education is conservative.
Let’s see how this statement holds up for our retarded troll here.
Comments by JD Murphy – the oh so smart private ed guy.
Im* being imitated. (I’m)
Liberals dont* belong in america. (don’t)
The conservative has the right mind.*(just bad sentence structure)
We supportt* the troops more than yu.* (support & you)
educational achevement* (achievement)
shouldnt* (shouldn’t)
Capitalism comes hand* (what the heck, this makes no sense)
I am better educated and welthier*. (wealthier)
Dont* act like your* upscale. (Don’t) (you’re)
smarter then you. Your* to the left.*(You’re)
Public schools are not for me. (maybe they should be)
Comments by JD Murphy
Stupid can’t be fixed.
Buck Fush
December 12th, 2007 at 12:13 pmAnd your Atheist and Islam comment, that is a contradictory statement.
What he’s saying isn’t contradictory. In his “vision of America” you’d be “free” to practice the official religion of Islam or “free” to profess atheism – as long as you agree to abide by Sharia – but you wouldn’t be able to practice any other religion.
So much for the Koran’s acceptance of all “People of the Book, ie: Islam, Judaism and Christianity.
December 12th, 2007 at 12:14 pmI will go to college and never be on academic probation then go become fortune five hundred c.e.o and lay off liberals.
No matter what you all say
December 12th, 2007 at 12:17 pmComment by WaltTheMan — December 12, 2007 @ 12:05 pm
You wouldnt know what a college is about.
December 12th, 2007 at 12:20 pmComment by Democrat Soldier: So, you’re saying that West Point should be run by the private sector?
Blackwater comes immediately to mind. I’ll bet they’d do a bang up job!
December 12th, 2007 at 12:20 pmI will go to college and never be on academic probation “then go become fortune five hundred c.e.o”* and lay off liberals.
No matter what you all say
Comment by JD Murphy
You will be a McDonald’s burger flipper kid, you command of the english language is….well, below average to say the least.
Buck Fush
December 12th, 2007 at 12:21 pm*your – little typo, new keyboard, a Mac flat one, kind of strange to get used to.
December 12th, 2007 at 12:21 pmWhat are the chances that JD is merely a counter-troll?
You know, someone who logs in pretending to be a troll, but using bad grammar, misspelling words… to drive home the point that most trolls are stupid?
Not that it’s a lesson many of us need reinforced…
December 12th, 2007 at 12:27 pmYeah, Ralph, it does make you wonder sometimes.
JP is not the sharpest tool in the shed.
Buck Fush
December 12th, 2007 at 12:31 pmComment by Buckie Boy — December 12, 2007 @ 12:31 pm
Wonder what. That im more intelligent then you so you pt out wrong errors?
December 12th, 2007 at 12:35 pmComment by ralph the wonder llama: What are the chances that JD is merely a counter-troll?
You know, someone who logs in pretending to be a troll, but using bad grammar, misspelling words…
I did notice that his spelling and grammar got much worse after people started calling him on it.
December 12th, 2007 at 12:39 pmWonder what.*(not a sentence) That im*(I’M) more intelligent then you so you pt*(put) out wrong errors?*(not a sentence again)
Comment by JD Murphy
Good going there, JD, you are sharp as a tack there. Yeah, I forgot your ID was JD not JP, that makes you soooo much smarter….NOT!
Buck Fush
December 12th, 2007 at 12:42 pm#119 – “Unlike other religions Islam is being given a special place, thanks to the assistance of Progressive groups!â€
Comment by Umar Lee — December 12, 2007 @ 10:58 am
Oh, yeah! Umar Lee is a troll! Only trolls try to make imaginary links where none exist!
Comment by Democrat Soldier
Umar is clearly a conservative troll, who trying to be clever. Just ignore him.
December 12th, 2007 at 12:53 pmYou wouldnt know what a college is about.
Comment by JD Murphy — December 12, 2007 @ 12:20 pm
I graduated from college before your grandmother was weaned. I also taught college courses, evenings, up to 1995.
December 12th, 2007 at 1:12 pmWell, I agree that those crooks (Bush, Cheney et al) are effectively traitors. The word that comes to mind is “Evil”. They certainly are criminals at best.
However, advocating going straight to the hanging is just in bad taste and gets us nowhere. It’s the kind of stuff where morons like O’Reilly point to it and say “See! Bad People!” I don’t really care what O’Reilly thinks or says, but why play into it? Just because you can? That seems silly to me.
Just my opinion, I’m not going to lose sleep over it.
December 12th, 2007 at 2:38 pmHate to digress back to the thread topic.
But has anyone else ever noticed that whenever you have a Republican administration where tapes are burned, Dick Cheney seems to be lurking about?
December 12th, 2007 at 2:54 pmHe’s the Bill Belichik of crooked politics. For whatever that’s worth.
December 12th, 2007 at 4:30 pm