Conservative Military Journal Slams Giuliani And Mukasey’s ‘Tacit Support For Waterboarding’
Conservative Military Journal Slams Giuliani And Mukasey’s ‘Tacit Support For Waterboarding’
When asked about the practice of waterboarding at a recent debate, former New York mayor Rudy Giuliani declared that he would allow “every method [interrogators] could think of and I would support them in doing it.” Attorney General Mike Mukasey consistently refused to render a legal opinion on the matter.
In its December issue, the military magazine Armed Forces Journal chastises Giuliani and Mukasey for “their tacit support for waterboarding”:
Let AFJ be crystal clear on a subject where these men are opaque: Waterboarding is a torture technique that has its history rooted in the Spanish Inquisition. In 1947, the U.S. prosecuted a Japanese military officer for carrying out a form of waterboarding on a U.S. civilian during World War II.
Waterboarding inflicts on its victims the terror of imminent death. And as with all torture techniques, it is, therefore, an inherently flawed method for gaining reliable information. In short, it doesn’t work. That blunt truth means all U.S. leaders, present and future, should be clear on the issue.
Furthermore, Armed Forces Journal leans conservative. Four out of six of its contributing editors are either conservative pundits or have positions in conservative think-tanks:
Ralph Peters – New York Post columnist and Weekly Standard contributor
Peter Brookes — Senior Fellow, Heritage Foundation
Christopher Griffin — Research Fellow, American Enterprise Institute
Seth Cropsey — Former Bush administration member; fellow at the Hudson Institute, Heritage Foundation, and AEI.
The other two contributing editors — Sean Naylor and William Matthews — are noted military journalists with no political affiliation.
Military officials have long disdained the Bush’s administration’s sanctioning of torture. Yesterday, 28 retired generals and admirals wrote to the House and Senate intelligence committees “urging them to require the CIA to abandon harsh interrogation techniques.”
– t-dub
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Yeah, well, if it’s not torture when WE do it – it ain’t torture when THEY do it to our troops, either.
December 13th, 2007 at 3:26 pmLet them know how ridiculous they all are!
December 13th, 2007 at 3:26 pmhttp://tshirtinsurgency.com/node/12
No wonder Dear Leader’s Glorious War is taking so long — we have Terrorist Appeasers in the top ranks of our military!
December 13th, 2007 at 3:27 pmWhy does the Armed Forces Journal hate the troops? Don’t these wimps know that we averted a full-scale invasion of camel-driving darkie hordes by waterboarding AQ#3? Shame on them for following hte law; they’ll never be good Republican sociopathic mass-murderers.
December 13th, 2007 at 3:27 pmits official Bush is a dictator
America should now use the rule of the jungle
December 13th, 2007 at 3:30 pmThey know that our soldiers will be subjected to it, and it IS torture.
What part of this shit doesn’t the Bushits get>?
December 13th, 2007 at 3:31 pmwhy is Germany, Italy, France, UK , Canada , The Hague
JUST IGNORING THIS FACT THAT BUSH IS TOTURING
lets string him up
December 13th, 2007 at 3:32 pmNice to see that conservatives are finding some backbone and declaring what many on the left already knew — waterboarding, as with most “enhanced interrogation techniques”, is torture and unlawful. Too bad they’ve waited 2 – 3 years to speak up. But, it is nice to know that if a conservative states it is bad, then its more likely for the media to agree.
December 13th, 2007 at 3:32 pmEuropean nations threatened Thursday to boycott U.S.-sponsored climate talks next month unless the Bush administration compromises and agrees to a “road map” for reducing greenhouse gases blamed for global warming.
European nations should be threatened to put bush on trial
December 13th, 2007 at 3:35 pmnice to see our military going full-tilt anti-waterboarding. Too bad our keepers of our ethical and moral values, our legislators and justices can’t exhibit similar clarity.
December 13th, 2007 at 3:37 pm.
Do you suppose there’s still some old newsreel footage of the prosecution and or execution of Japanese officers after WWII? That would make for some excellent YouTube footage…
December 13th, 2007 at 3:37 pmThis is a great thread. Good info.
December 13th, 2007 at 3:38 pmIt’s amazing how the historical evidence that torture does not work can be so conveniently ignored by these neocon fools.
Are they such cowards that they have to puff their chests out and torture people to try and appear tough? The whole historical basis of the neocon movement says it all. Some were either related to or were themselves Holocaust survivors that decided that they wanted to never let anything so horrible happen ever again. But in doing this, they took on the least honorable traits and tactics of the very people that they despised.
Then we have the old chickenhawks who have been on the job too long and are seeing the enemy everywhere they look. They conveniently jump onto the neocon bandwagon and unwittingly cultivate perpetual war to nurture their own insecurities.
They all want to take the most cowardly path that serves to weaken the constitution and ultimately leaves all of us more vulnerable.
December 13th, 2007 at 3:42 pmRighty: “Well, this whole thing is a non-story, and it’s obviously a “politically motivated witchhunt”, a “hyper-partisan campaign to discredit the “Mayor of 9/11″, and those military conservative guys are all pussies and “phony soldiers”, and I support the troops and respect the military.”
[this stuff is really easy to come up with, once you've embraced your incoherent "inner reactionary"]
December 13th, 2007 at 3:42 pmSinopec to triple oil import from Iran
China’s refiner Sinopec Corp. will triple its import of crude from Iran next year, boosting its share of crude from OPEC’s second largest producer.
American cars will be running dry soon
chosse people what do you want
Oil or Isreal
peace on earth or war
December 13th, 2007 at 3:44 pmNeeko, I suspect some sexual arousal in neocons resulting from the mere thought of waterboarding or torture…
December 13th, 2007 at 3:45 pmSo…
Will the White House start ripping to shreds the reputation of all six contributing editors at the same time, with the same scandal (hey, Dick, Dubya here, any way we can make ‘em all look like a bunch of homos lovin each other too much to properly edit their mag’zine?)? Or will they attack each one at a time?
Because they say waterboarding is torture. And That. Sh!t. Must. Not. Stand.
December 13th, 2007 at 3:51 pmDEMAND A SPECIAL PROSECUTOR
Mr. Attorney General:
The deliberate destruction of tapes showing “harsh interrogation techniques” by the C.I.A. suggests an utter disregard for the rule of law. These tapes were needed for Congress, courts, and even the 9/11 commission to do their work.
Because the Justice Department and top officials in the White House and the C.I.A. have been major players in the torture scandal, only an independent prosecutor can get at the truth.
I demand that you immediately appoint an independent prosecutor to investigate and, if appropriate, prosecute crimes that may have been committed by C.I.A. personnel or other top officials.
1. Sign the petition by filling out your information below. Fax Majority Leader Reid: No Amnesty for Telco Criminals
http://act.credomobile.com/campaign/fisa_senate_reid/ixukgwbrpmd58wd?
December 13th, 2007 at 3:54 pmBush’s continued disregard for the rule of law in this country as well as international laws is heinous and he is guilty of war crimes. Everyone involved in the condoning of torture needs to be brought to trial for their crimes and pay the penalty. Just because Dumbo leaves office doesn’t mean that he will not answer for his crimes.
December 13th, 2007 at 3:58 pmDamn that liberal rag AFJ.
December 13th, 2007 at 3:59 pmThe most laughable part of this entire debate is how the WH continues to claim that while waterboarding is not torture, they don’t do it anyways. I chuckle every time I hear that lie. And that’s about all you can do with the Bush govt, laugh. If you actually sat down & detailed all of the damage they’ve done you’d be crying. It would be even worse if I was an American citizen. That’s where the most damage has been directed.
December 13th, 2007 at 4:00 pmWaterboarding is torture no matter how it is defined. It’s also illegal no matter how much Bush wants to try to make it legal – along with his idiot shadow, Giuliani. Of course, doing what’s illegal is what Rudy’s life has been all about, as the people of NY pay for his Sex On The City. These are criminals and we cannot permit they to walk scott free. Mukasey’s Bush’s personal a$$-wipe. Maybe they’ll change the name of personal rectal towelettes to “Mukasey’s” instead.
December 13th, 2007 at 4:01 pmI’m not sure that I agree that Bush has said that they never waterboarded anyone; in fact, I believe that it’s been admitted by this white house. We need to check videos of his press conferences to get to the heart of this. It’s been admitted by the intel agencies nevertheless which is precisely why it’s critical for Bush (and his personal rectal wipe, Mukasey) to attempt to redefine waterboarding which is not going to happen. There’s only one form of waterboarding and it’s illegal. Bush is more worried about his own sorry butt than this country, that’s also now clear.
December 13th, 2007 at 4:03 pmIf the intel agencies which are part of Bush’s administration have made public their infamous waterboarding episodes, then bush becomes culpable because the buck stops at his desk.
December 13th, 2007 at 4:04 pm“In its December issue, the military magazine Armed Forces Journal chastises Giuliani and Mukasey for “their tacit support for waterboardingâ€
I can kinda understand why AFJ used the term “tacit” in describing Mukasey’s support for (or non-condemnation of) waterboarding, but Rudy’s cheerleading for waterboarding is nothing like “tacit.” Rudy’s campaign has been nothing but he-man chest-beating, ‘vengeance is his sayeth the Lord of 911.’
December 13th, 2007 at 4:05 pmI think just maybe we should start having candidates have psychiatric and IQ tests before they run from now on to keep the Sociopaths* and Idiots* from destroying everything they touch.
*Bush & Cheney
Bush/Cheney/Giuliani/Mukasey
Hague Trials ‘09
Buck Fush
December 13th, 2007 at 4:15 pmBush has ordered torture.
Bush has obstructed justice in Tillman’s murder.
Bush has treasonously outed a CIA operative.
Bush has drug my country’s honor through the mud.
And the scabby sycophants still support him.
I think Bush deserves support, the same support that Mussloini had. I am thinking hemp or a good nylon.
December 13th, 2007 at 4:18 pmGiuliani and Mukasey (among many other Republicans) are too cowardly to take a position against waterboarding. The Republicans are like a bunch of lemmings running over the edge of a cliff. They’re all gungho about waterboarding and all other “macho” government activities because they’re so insecure and have to prove to their peers that they’re such (supposedly) manly “patriots”. Such worthless cowards.
December 13th, 2007 at 4:25 pmGWB and Fox news are a reflection of where a large portion of our society is at. This is the real problem.
December 13th, 2007 at 4:27 pmSo the Armed Forces Journal thinks waterboarding is torture? Boy, are they going to look silly when O. Bigfoot straightens them out. He’s been telling us that “most Americans” know it isn’t torture. What do these dumbsh!ts at the AFJ know about it, anyway? O. Bigfoot is an expert and he says just the opposite.
In fact, he’s probably getting ready to dismiss the entire magazine as a cowardly socialist tool. They’re gonna be sorry.
December 13th, 2007 at 4:32 pmIt is good news that Mukasey is lying about when taping of torture sessions stopped. That he feels the need to lie about it shows that the gang is growing genuinely nervous about facing legal consequences for their actions. They see the noose tightening around them.
December 13th, 2007 at 4:39 pmIt’s a sad day when even our military has been forced to kowtow before the liberals. I wonder who got to them.
Comment by Frank M — December 13, 2007 @ 4:55 pm
The Army field manual has banned waterboarding and stated it is illegal under US Law since before Bush was ever (P)resident, dimwit.
If you had ever had enough courage to follow your stances and joined up, you would know this, coward.
December 13th, 2007 at 5:00 pmWhy does Frankie the coward hate the Constitution and Rule of Law?
December 13th, 2007 at 5:01 pmpack up the dog and the pony Frank, and go find some little kids, who might buy your bull for more than a second.
December 13th, 2007 at 5:04 pmIt’s a sad day when even our military has been forced to kowtow before the liberals. I wonder who got to them.
Comment by Frank M — December 13, 2007 @ 4:55 pm
It’s a sad day when even fascist apologists like yourself refuse to learn anything, even when actual experts in the field correct you.
December 13th, 2007 at 5:05 pmWhy does Frankie the coward hate the Constitution and Rule of Law?
Comment by Wayne — December 13, 2007 @ 5:01 pm
Frankie is a self-professed fascist. ’nuff said.
December 13th, 2007 at 5:05 pmActually, I believe that Frank transcends mere fascism. His impulses lean more towards Nazism.
December 13th, 2007 at 5:08 pmActually, I believe that Frank transcends mere fascism. His impulses lean more towards Nazism.
Comment by VerbalKint — December 13, 2007 @ 5:08 pm
But he’s confessed to being a fascist, so he’s already far more honest than most of the trolls here. He’s not in as much denial as they are.
December 13th, 2007 at 5:19 pmSuckerism, more like, if he actually believes that crap. Barnum woulda love these Righties – they’ve “bought” the brooklyn-bridge-to-baghdad, “only paid 2 trillion for it!”
December 13th, 2007 at 5:20 pmFrank M is the only troll that I have seen on this thread. Where are CaptainMantastic and Southern Man? Let us here them rant and rave about how these people were, to use Frank M’s words:
“It’s a sad day when even our military has been forced to kowtow before the liberals. I wonder who got to them.”
Frank M shows his ignorance. The military has opposed these “enhanced” forms of interrogation from the very beginning. We saw TJAG (The Judge Advocate General) for each of the services object to the torture memo. The active duty military TJAGS were removed from the loop and shrub’s political appointees without military justice expertise loosend the rules. One does not get to be the highest ranking attorney within a uniformed service by kowtowing to the liberals. Twenty-eight retired general officers have taken a stand against water boarding.
Yes Frank, do you feel proud of yourself for championing the type of interrogation practices practiced by Hitler, Stalin, Saddam and the Communists of the old Soviet Union and North Vietnam? Does it make you proud to know that not a single one of our allies from the cold war uses this practice? Do you enjoy knowing that you condone a practice that has been considered a crime by our courts for over 100years whether practiced by civilian law enforcement, our military or our enemies?
Yes Frank, you have proven yourself to belong to the same type of fascists that the United States has always opposed. Feel proud to be the scum of the earth? Feel proud to belong to a class of morally depraved individuals deserving of death? This world would be better off without you. If you want to help the long term survival of this country and culture, cut your own life short.
December 13th, 2007 at 5:33 pmComment by Merlin — December 12, 2007 @ 1:32 am
I posted this too late the other day to generate any feedback so here it is again for your thoughts today. Interesting that Frankie is still spewing his same thoughtless emotional rubbish.
The truly sad thing is the US has a long proven history of being complicit in torture. Going all the way back to the 60s at least in Latin and Central America. What is happening now under W is just pushing the envelope further. It used to be that torture was kept under wraps. Today the neocons openly advocate its use, while employing legal “scholars†like John Yoo who create the illusion of legality for those acts.
December 13th, 2007 at 5:42 pmSo now, we have reached the stage where it is not only permissable to torture, (under a bunch of euphamisms,) but it is “necessary†and “good†to “have a national discussion†about the merits of using torture! Truly, black has become white.
Just listen to Frank M here to see and understand the minds of those who advocate and justify torture. Max-1 wants to “figure out how you (Frank M) thinkâ€. I propose that there is no real “thinking†going on. Only acting out emotional fantasies while hoping to overcome some insuffurable inferiority feelings they suffer from. Their “reasons†and “justifications†have nothing to do with thought, other than that which will allow them to do what ever they want without the fear of punishment.
That our leaders in the legislature allow this to continue is a tragedy of major proporations. And that includes Democrats as well as republics!
Speaking of Bill Matthews, I used to work with him at a publication. I’m not going to divulge my real identity or the previous outfit I worked for (I am currently a newswire reporter), but Bill is one of the best journalists I worked with for a simple reason: he never took sides with anyone and he only cared about getting the story right. If it meant pissing people off with his gruff style, then so be it. Editors always underappreciated him.
December 13th, 2007 at 10:01 pm.
Since when is torture… L E G A L?
Listen to the punditry justify torture.
Listen to them justify Christianity.
Who
Would
Jesus
Torture?
.
December 14th, 2007 at 1:20 am.
OFF TOPIC:
Replying to Frank M. no matter how off color, off base, and just plane wrong that he can be, legitimizes him and his trollish behavior.
Just an FYI
.
December 14th, 2007 at 1:22 amAG MuKasey..”I think the Justice Department is capable of doing whatever it appears needs to be done,” Mukasey said. “The question of a special prosecutor is the most hypothetical of hypotheticals, and that isn’t going to be faced until it happens. And if it has to be, it will be.”
Mukasey may have a conflict of interest problem already, and may have to call upon a Special Prosecutor.
Jose Padilla’s lawyers argued before the Florida Federal Court that Abu Zubaydah was tortured into saying Padilla was an al Qaeda associate. The DOJ dismissed Padilla’s allegations as “meritless,†asserting Padilla’s legal team could not prove that Abu Zubaydah had been tortured. Well, it’s clear now that they certainly COULD have, if the tapes of the interrogations of Abu Zubaydah had been made available!
Now here is where Mukasey’s role comes into question. U.S. District Judge Mukasey, now attorney general, was the one who signed the warrant used by the FBI to arrest Padilla in May 2002. Court records show the warrant relied in part on information obtained from Abu Zubaydah’s interrogation. So we have a problem Houston.
The Attorney General can only issue a warrant based upon legally obtained evidence, and confessions under torture are certainly not “legally obtainedâ€. So either Mukasey was misrepresented the evidence, and would be liable to be potentially a party in those who were presented with “perjured evidenceâ€; or he knew that torture was used in obtaining the confession and ignored it.
In either case he is unsuitable to run an investigation, as it will, inevitably, involved himself. Thus a Special Prosecutor is necessary.
December 14th, 2007 at 8:33 amKowtowing to liberals??
Have you ever READ AFJI?
I read it from the time I was in the Army until a few years ago, and I can tell you that it would never submit to any pressure from “liberals”.
Just read any article published by Ralph Peters, or better yet, read his books. Unless he has gone through a radical realignment of his politics in the past month, he is definitely “right of right-center”.
And who exactly are these “liberals” who are forcing their will on military publications? Considering that 90% of their advertisers are military-based industries, I doubt it’s from that angle.
December 14th, 2007 at 11:43 amIs Frank M the only protofascist brownshirt on these boards?
How boring.
December 14th, 2007 at 1:23 pmAmerica must choose democrasy way to develop,no dictators in uSA!
December 15th, 2007 at 2:34 am