Bush ‘needs’ Hannity and Limbaugh.
At the White House Christmas party for the press last night, “conservative talk radio hosts dominated the place, including Laura Ingraham, Hugh Hewitt, Neal Boortz, Mark Levin and Paul W. Smith.” During a conversation with WMAL General Manager Chris Berry, whose station features such conservative hosts as Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh, President Bush “smiled, patted him on the back and said, ‘Keep it up. We need you guys.’”
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Sycophants always welcome
December 14th, 2007 at 9:46 amOf course bush needs halfwit and his hatemongers. They’re one of the ways that the whitehouse regurgitates its talkinpoints to the moronic masses.
http://thinkprogress.org/ 2007/ 12/ 05/ bartlett-wh-reporters-are-too-tough-on-bush/
December 14th, 2007 at 9:47 amJoseph Goebbels was indispensable too.
December 14th, 2007 at 9:47 amIt’s a real sad commentary on how low you are when you “need” the likes of Hannity and Limbaugh.
December 14th, 2007 at 9:48 am#1 - Too true!
Neo-cons rely upon the sycophantic crowd to keep the truth at bay.
I cannot wait until 20th Jan, 2008 when Pres. Bush is shown the door by the next Democratic President!
We will be free at last from the 8+ year national nightmare!
December 14th, 2007 at 9:48 amno president has ever politicized the WH like Bush the Junior.
December 14th, 2007 at 9:49 amYes, Bush NEEDS talking heads who can push his absurd propaganda with a straight face. And fortunately, about a quarter of the population of this country will continue to lap it up no matter how outrageous it is.
I’m waiting for a president who prefers to lean on rational mouthpieces. A president who relishes being challenged with hard questions from the media. And a president who prefers to market to intelligent skeptics and questioners instead of mindless dittoheads.
December 14th, 2007 at 9:49 amITts time these thugs disappear from the airwaves.
For those who have the time call congress. Tell them:
I’m mad as hell and I’m not going to take it anymore.
(see movie Network)
Repeat every day. Call and tell them the same thing.
December 14th, 2007 at 9:51 ama desperate man.
December 14th, 2007 at 9:51 amKeep it up. We need you guys.
Translation: You’re all we’ve got left.
December 14th, 2007 at 9:55 amNo, Bush needs a war crimes trial, and a good sentencing……
Now what was it the USA does with war criminals ???
Oh ya……….
December 14th, 2007 at 9:56 amHe certainly does need those guys. He needs good liars to cover his a$$ for him.
December 14th, 2007 at 9:59 amSince a good portion of the legitimate media is kicking Bush to the curb and outing him for his criminal activities, his inner circle certainly is waning. Soon he’ll be left with only Laura and Barney.
December 14th, 2007 at 10:00 amReps need a lot of help, since their constituents keep sitting back thinking God is going to fix everything without them having to engage in the fight themselves. Fox News, Radio Talk Show Hosts, conservative blogs, etc. are all doing the heavy lifting for lazy conservatives, who prefer to keep their hands clean, as if they are above the fray.
That is why I like it when libs challenge conservatives in all districts, even “safe” ones, because someone or something has to shake Reps from their complacancy. I was hoping Hill’reh’s nomination might be just the ticket, but that no longer seems likely.
December 14th, 2007 at 10:04 amFairness Doctrine.
December 14th, 2007 at 10:06 amFOX is State Sponsored TV and should be shut down.
Yeah, those conservatives have been really hiding in the shadows the last 6 or 7 years, huh…
December 14th, 2007 at 10:07 am#19, F&S,
The rank and file have been hiding. They are all too happy to let McConnell, Lott, Boehner, Blunt and conservative media do all the fighting, while they sit back at home and do nothing but vote, which has carried them for a long time, but isn’t going to be enough going forward.
December 14th, 2007 at 10:10 amWe need truthful, competent leadership.
December 14th, 2007 at 10:12 amWe don’t need no stinkin’ propaganda machine. Just give me some truth.
December 14th, 2007 at 10:14 amIDIOTS need IDIOTS to help….
December 14th, 2007 at 10:15 amDamn straight! They “need” their propagandists.
December 14th, 2007 at 10:17 am“Keep spreading your lies, venom and hate…we need you guys”
December 14th, 2007 at 10:18 amMy questions is…
Who will be invited to the White House Holiday Party (ehmm) if there is a (D) president?
B. Obama:
Plame (I think a great thumb in the eye)
Sheehan (for posterity? after all it will get the MoveOn crowd with me)
Soros (goes without saying, duh)
Sharpton (solidarity? nah, but I will get street cred)
Mrs. Clinton:
Valarie Plame (I would but I know Bill loves “vulnerable” women)
Sheehan (for posterity? after all it will get the MoveON crowd with me, but make sure she has the back table)
Soros (hey, its where the money is at are you kidding me?)
Sharpton (I got to show that this place isn’t run like a plantation, of course especially coming up on MLK Day! What coup that would me)
Mr. Edwards
Valarie Plame (if it locks up my votes for re-election and gives of sincerity? hell yeah. Just make sure you know what she is wearing cause I don’t want her looking better than me at my own party)
Sheehan (if it locks up my votes for re-election and gives of sincerity? hell yeah. But just one photo-op ok?!)
Soros (if it locks up my votes for re-election and gives of sincerity? hell yeah. A check would be nice too!)
Sharpton (if it locks up my votes for re-election and gives of sincerity? hell yeah. Make sure he gets plenty of photo-ops.
But in all seriousness, who cares. He’s Conservative they are conservative, DUH! No different than those hollywood crowd hanging with the Clinton’s or the Kennedy’s. Birds of a feather. And hate to tell you they don’t agree with everything he says, that is if you listen. You won’t here me saying naything if I saw the Air America banner hanging over the East Wing.
December 14th, 2007 at 10:19 amThe Political Work of the Radio Announcer
by Eugen Hadamovsky
To outsiders, the work of those in the radio who are right next to the Führer or his top aides at the time of important events seems mysterious. The men of the radio, and particularly the reporters or announcers, experience directly what others only learn through newspapers, photographs, or radio broadcasts..
Decisive political events do not take place “behind the scenes,†but rather they are intended to gain the participation of the whole population. Dr. Goebbels opens the doors, the conference rooms, the meeting halls, the four walls of diplomatic negotiations, and lets the people and the world participate. The broadest public participates in important events through pictures, news reports, the accounts of capable announcers, or through direct broadcasts of political events.
http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/hada2.htm
December 14th, 2007 at 10:21 amBush is as much of a conservative as you are a squirrel joneser. You are lying to yourself if you think the man who created the largest govt. in modern times and just passed the 9 trillion in debt mark is a conservative.
As for who will be invited to a Demcratic controlled WH? We will soon see.
December 14th, 2007 at 10:22 amJoneser, you aren’t a squirrel are you?
December 14th, 2007 at 10:23 amIn the bunker with his most ardent sycophants. Heil Bush!
-GSD
December 14th, 2007 at 10:25 amJoneser is more like a mole. Bald, blind and shuns the light of day.
December 14th, 2007 at 10:26 am17 Comment by Jason M. Hendler — December 14, 2007 @ 10:04 am
I don’t think its about being above the fray so much as being afraid to be in a fray. And it annoys me. Yes absolutely conservative talk radio speaks to exactly what alot of conservatives think. Problem is the conservative politicians are too busy trying to appease when, without a doubt, if the role was reversed, Lib- excuse me “progressives” would stomp their heads in without thinking twice. Fight it out and see who comes out on top. Things are too PC now. Win the hearts and minds by standing up for what you beleive and articulating it and the people will respond.
December 14th, 2007 at 10:27 am28 Comment by shoeless — December 14, 2007 @ 10:21 am
yes nothing like the last bastion of “speech”, the university system. Hey, teacher, live them kids alone!
December 14th, 2007 at 10:29 amJokes aside, I think that is a startling and revealing comment.
December 14th, 2007 at 10:30 amJoneser is more like a mole. Bald, blind and shuns the light of day.
Comment by nanlichi —
Or a happy mushroom: kept in the dark and fed shit.
December 14th, 2007 at 10:31 am#33, Joneser,
I think their greatest fear is that those who should be supporting them in a fight will shun them, lest mud get on them too, which is a valid concern that I’ve experienced myself. Currently, libs KNOW that all they have to do is incite a conflict, and most conservatives will retreat, right or wrong, so conflict is a lib’s first and most effective tool. A lib’s second most affective tool is slander / divisive / derisive painting of a conservative, when a conflict isn’t handy.
December 14th, 2007 at 10:33 amComment by hellinabucket — December 14, 2007 @ 10:22 am
Actually I think he follows his own beat, which doesn’t bother me. I’d say 75% of him is conservative and the other his own ideas.
But that is just my opinion, you know that thing you are supposed to be able to express in exchange with others, generally in a respectful manner?
32
TP rule # 17
Hey when in doubt, throw insults. Try attach similes, metaphors, and personifications particualrly as they relate to fallic, fecal, bestial, and or dictators.
December 14th, 2007 at 10:35 amMugsy: “Truer words said in jest” is the case here. Every pathological liar needs other pathological liars to prop him up and keep that all-important “insight” from getting into the bubble or behind those blinders.
December 14th, 2007 at 10:36 amJoneser, I agree that things are too PC. I also believe that there aren’t true conservatives running the govt. now. If a true consevative (the likes of a Goldwater) would speak out rationally the republican party would rally around him/her. For far too long the republican party has pushed fear to the public while filling the pockets of the few.
Also it’s “Leave” them kids alone!
December 14th, 2007 at 10:36 amJoneser: Care to define “attach similes” for us? Just wondering.
December 14th, 2007 at 10:37 amChimpy’s on C-Span now, saying “Congress must do this, do that,” but they only gave him a continuing resolution. He asks for a one-year cont. res., to fund his operations without riders - he’s delusional.
December 14th, 2007 at 10:37 amHow the mighty have fallen…
** AMERICA **
1776 - 2007
~~ R.I.P.~~
December 14th, 2007 at 10:37 amConservative political correctness:
1:Anything goes if it’s done in Jesus’ name.
December 14th, 2007 at 10:38 am2:Anything goes if it’s wrapped in the flag.
3:Anything goes as long as it’s done to brown people.
4:Anything goes as long as you can blame the gays.
5:Anything goes As long as you can accuse your opponent of hating “murica” .
Jonesie: Also I believe you’re engaging in synonyms when you attach phallic, fecal, and bestial to the term “dictator”, aren’t you? At least they are descriptive adjectives when describing our home-grown dictator.
December 14th, 2007 at 10:38 amBobwurst: I’ll add one to your list -
December 14th, 2007 at 10:39 am#6 Anything goes As Long As it’s coming from the lips of our Dictator
28 Comment by shoeless — December 14, 2007 @ 10:21 am
yes nothing like the last bastion of “speechâ€, the university system. Hey, teacher, live them kids alone!
Comment by Joneser
Wow, you did a very good job of missing the point. Here is a little more from that essay. Perhaps you can get a clue.
The desire to do the best one can is good and healthy. However, one must be modest in the face of the events and the personality who stands in the center. Only then will outstanding work be done. Only then does one earn the title: Master Announcer of German Radio.
That requires controlling the individual, just like a solder. He must do the best he can, but within the bounds of his unit!
Back in 1933, we began to evaluate very carefully the work of our radio announcers, using recordings of our broadcasts to criticize and evaluate what we had done.
The value of this approach is best shown when we have to work with foreigners during state visits or interesting events. We suddenly see the differences between our National Socialist announcers and those foreigners who have not been trained in their worldview. They are not as propagandistically capable.
They have been effective aides and helpers of National Socialist propaganda and people’s enlightenment in this past year.
December 14th, 2007 at 10:40 amAnnie: There’s hope for resurrection on the horizon in the form of a democratic or independent president. It goes without saying that every executive order will have to be overturned, every signing statment pitched, the constitution reinstated in toto, the torture and rendition halted - and that’s just for openers.
December 14th, 2007 at 10:40 am“Hey when in doubt, throw insults. Try attach similes, metaphors, and personifications particualrly as they relate to fallic, fecal, bestial, and or dictators.”
Comment by Joneser — December 14, 2007 @ 10:35 am
When your party gets into bed with terrorists and dictators (Reagan) expect to get tarred with the consequences of your leaders’ bad choices.
December 14th, 2007 at 10:41 amBarfly: I’m surprised that eejit has the cajones to even be seen on television these days - especially since he knows there’s a call for impeachment coming from Wexler and Kucinich now. Maybe that’s why he’s front and center. If I were him, that’s the last thing I’d be doing looking as putrid as he does, bumbling like a buffoon and making a total jacka$$ of himself.
December 14th, 2007 at 10:42 am“Currently, libs KNOW that all they have to do is incite a conflict, and most conservatives will retreat, right or wrong, so conflict is a lib’s first and most effective tool.
JLH”
WAHHHHH! those mean libs are picking on me mommy! Who invented swiftboating Jay? Who created the willy horton lie Jay? Who spent over 50 million dollars to find a lie about a bj Jay? Who has questioned the patriotism of every questioner of bush’s policies for the last 7 years Jay?
And you wonder why no one takes you seriously? idiot.
December 14th, 2007 at 10:43 amJonesie: If the shoe fits, wear it, dude.
December 14th, 2007 at 10:43 amI’m still waiting for a definiton of attach similies myself.
December 14th, 2007 at 10:44 amJoneser
Okay, so you believe that the world’s scientists are out there faking global warming in a bid to take over the world, that America’s shopping centres have declared a war on Christmas by wishing shoppers a “Happy Holiday” (The most tepid declaration of war I have ever seen) and that a zit on your butt is ample reason to dodge your draft notice.
You believe that Mexico is out to conquor you by sending in cheap labour to pick your vegatables, clean your clothes and otherwise do menial tasks for you, and that Canada is really interested in merging with America, despite its long history of violently opposing that idea.
You believe that torture is fine, simply because your political opponents oppose the idea, and that America was founded on Christian principles, despite the treaty of Tripoli saying the exact opposite and the US constitution in several places saying the exact opposite.
Note that the declaration of independence has no legal authority.
You believe that the majority of the people sitting on the world’s most respected awards comittee are pedophiles, simply because they have given an award to someone you don’t like, and that the evil liberals were behind everything that went wrong between 2001 and 2006, despite those same liberals, having no access to political power.
You believe the Iraq war was started on, well you aren’t sure but it must have been a good reason! and that anybody who opposes the war, including people who have actually fought in it, is a coward. At the same time you beleive someone who got out of vietnam via an awkwardly placed zit is the epitome of courage.
December 14th, 2007 at 10:44 amI’m still waiting for a definiton of attach similies myself.
Comment by patooty
:)
December 14th, 2007 at 10:45 amLunatic, warmongering, neocon chickenhawks attract lunatic warmongering neocon chickenhawks
What a surprise
December 14th, 2007 at 10:46 am49 - I hope you’re right, patooty. I pray for that day to come. I want my country back.
December 14th, 2007 at 10:46 amProof we need to reinstate the Fairness Doctrine. For those of you too young to know about this, here is a quick lesson.
Quoting from the Museum of Broadcast Communications, “The policy of the United States Federal Communications Commission that became known as the “Fairness Doctrine†is an attempt to ensure that all coverage of controversial issues by a broadcast station be balanced and fair. The FCC took the view, in 1949, that station licensees were “public trusteesâ€, and as such had an obligation to afford reasonable opportunity for discussion of contrasting points of view on controversial issues of public importance. The Commission later held that stations were also obligated to actively seek out issues of importance to their community and air programming that addressed those issues. With the deregulation sweep of the Reagan Administration during the 1980s, the Commission dissolved the fairness doctrine.”
“The fairness doctrine ran parallel to Section 315 of the Communications Act of 1937 which required stations to offer “equal opportunity†to all legally qualified political candidates for any office if they had allowed any person running in that office to use the station. The attempt was to balance–to force an even handedness. Section 315 exempted news programs, interviews and documentaries. But the doctrine would include such efforts. Another major difference should be noted here: Section 315 was federal law, passed by Congress. The fairness doctrine was simply FCC policy.”
“By 1985, (Reagan’s second term) the FCC issued its Fairness Report, asserting that the doctrine was no longer having its intended effect, might actually have a “chilling effect†and might be in violation of the First Amendment. In a 1987 case, Meredith Corp. v. FCC, the courts declared that the doctrine was not mandated by Congress and the FCC did not have to continue to enforce it. The FCC dissolved the doctrine in August of that year.”
The Congress voted to enact the Fairness Doctrine into law; however, it was vetoed by President Regan. The second attempt ran out of support with a threatened veto by President Bush the First. Today, we find, “there is no required balance of controversial issues as mandated by the fairness doctrine. The public relies instead on the judgment of broadcast journalists and its own reasoning ability to sort out one-sided or distorted coverage of an issue.
Currently, Senator Bernie Sanders (I-VT), along with Representatives Dennis Kucinich (D-OH), Maurice Hinchey (D-NY), and Louise Slaughter (D-NY) have announced to support legislation that would reverse the 1987 FCC ruling.
We need to bring back the Fairness Doctrines, to insure that the citizens of this country hear, not only fair and balanced reporting, but more importantly, all sides of the issues. Additionally, it will end fear mongering (see my post on the History of the Fear Lobby) by the media and politicians, who are attempting to placate their corporate sponsors or appear to be doing something useful for society. Without the Fairness Doctrine, CNN, FOX News, MSNBC, CBS, ABC, and all other news and information outlets cannot, nor will not be held responsible to provide accuracy and non-biased facts. Until then, the citizens can expect more of the same; propaganda, and misinformation, in place of facts and truth.
Call your representative today and tell them to support the Fairness Doctrine or face being sent home the next time they run for re-election.
December 14th, 2007 at 10:46 amre 55,
Commisioner Gorton, (sorry, I grew up on the batman show) The only problem with your arugment is that you’re making sense. you need to dumb it down quite a bit if you want to reach your intended audience.
December 14th, 2007 at 10:47 ampatooty: He was in full Bush mode: scowls, smirks, calling reporters by their “nicknames,” and keeping it short, before he bumbles a line.
December 14th, 2007 at 10:48 amBush: The STENCH of the TREASONOUS modern day Rapeublic party.
An AWOL coward son-of-privilege who avoided Vietnam when it was HIS turn, but LIES to send soldiers to an UNNECESSARY WAR.
Bush is a MURDERER, LIAR, TORTURER, and TRAITOR to the USA.
One who uses God and Jesus to justify his GENOCIDE.
Pretty much like the REST of the Chickenhawk Rapeublic party.
Not even flip-floppers like Mitt, Rudy and Fred will be able to get away from the TREASONOUS STENCH of
TRAITOR George W. Bush.
Sincerely,
NRA Gun Nutes
December 14th, 2007 at 10:52 amTP rule # 17
Hey when in doubt, throw insults.
Comment by Joneser
Neocons rule # 1.
When in doubt, invade.
December 14th, 2007 at 10:52 amComment by Bruce Gorton — December 14, 2007 @ 10:44 am
When the nonsense these fearmongers spread is written out it’s scary to see how unhinged they are.
December 14th, 2007 at 10:53 amyes nothing like the last bastion of “speechâ€, the university system. Hey, teacher, live them kids alone!
Comment by Joneser
Yes, we all know how much you right-wing extremists detest education. Looks like you have been very successful in avoiding it.
December 14th, 2007 at 10:56 am‘ Keep it up, we need you , all indicators showing we are nosediving to a single digit approval’,we are beaking all approvals records….keep it up.’
December 14th, 2007 at 10:56 amCatapulting the propaganda. Spreading fear and hate to the far corners of the country. Traitors all.
Bush/Cheney/Sycophants
Hague Trials ‘09
Buck Fush
December 14th, 2007 at 10:57 amHey brat! i though i offended you last time… or wasn’t dignified enough… which ever… no matter…
55 Comment by Bruce Gorton — December 14, 2007 @ 10:44 am
Yep… that’s about it in a nutshell… i think you need a bigger brush though. But that is the state of the world we are in isn’t. Divide and conquer.
As for the attach simily thing, sorry I was multi tasking… but hey it comes with the territory with “progressive thought” on TP. But hey I know there is a lot of angry folk on here.
December 14th, 2007 at 10:57 am68 Buckie Boy… brotha… quit campaining, you are preaching to the choir man.
December 14th, 2007 at 10:58 amWell of course he does! These are the guys who push the propaganda and keep the base in line. They are his guys on the ground, spreading the lies and distortions that the GOP needs in order to keep tricking people into voting against their best interests. None of those radio “personalities” mentioned have a clean record of telling the truth. Everything they put out is tainted by spin. The misinformation and outright lies that spew forth from them is staggering. And what makes it worse is the lumpenproletariat cheering them all the way, while the futures of those same people are destroyed in the name of “conservatism”.
December 14th, 2007 at 11:00 am66
no I have a degree in architecture… i avoided nothing. I questioned what my 99.44% left teachers taught. some i took in, some i questioned, most didn’t work for me.
December 14th, 2007 at 11:02 amBut hey I know there is a lot of angry folk on here.
Comment by Joneser
I agree. We shoud remain civil and tolerant.
It doesn’t matter that around one million of Iraqis are dead like 4,000 of your soldiers over a LIE.
December 14th, 2007 at 11:04 amA lib’s second most affective tool is slander / divisive / derisive painting of a conservative, when a conflict isn’t handy.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — December 14, 2007 @ 10:33 am
Aw, geez, and yer tellin’ me I’M funny. I guess Limbaugh wasn’t smearing Graeham Frost or Michael J Fox after all, jes’ defending the country he loves… **cough**
December 14th, 2007 at 11:04 amComment by Joneser — December 14, 2007 @ 11:02 am
A degree in architecture… riiiiight…
Just like George Costanza.
December 14th, 2007 at 11:06 amComment by Citizen_of_Earth — December 14, 2007 @ 10:46 am
Thank you for this post. Joneser had agreed to this in a posting above. We do need all voices to have equal time and let us decide.
December 14th, 2007 at 11:07 amBut hey I know there is a lot of angry folk on here.
Comment by Joneser
We aren’t angry. We are just enjoying the show. I can’t decide which is more fun, watching the “permanent Republican majority” implode, or seeing the mindless, groveling, right-wing minions squirm as their mighty totalitarian masters crash and burn.
December 14th, 2007 at 11:07 amComment by patooty — December 14, 2007 @ 10:40 am
And do away with every faith based initiative…
http://www.whitehouse.gov/government/fbci/
December 14th, 2007 at 11:07 amLet’s put Limbaugh up against Thom Hartman. We’d need a mediator to keep Rush from rustling papers and jumping off topic. And to keep Thom from going on too much.
I’d like to see them get 3 topic to discuss each for 20 minutes.
December 14th, 2007 at 11:09 amno I have a degree in architecture…
Comment by Joneser
Could you please post a list of buildings you have designed. I want to be sure to avoid those places for safety’s sake.
December 14th, 2007 at 11:10 amThis is someone else using the name “Joneser” this am. The “Joneser” posting here in the past NEVER used the vocab this one is. Different person.
Is the RNC hiring new trolls?
December 14th, 2007 at 11:10 amComment by Joneser — December 14, 2007 @ 11:02 am
A degree in architecture… riiiiight…
Just like George Costanza.
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity
Yeah, he works for Art Vandelay.
December 14th, 2007 at 11:21 amIf my life was so pathetic I needed Boottz, I may just take that cyanide capsule.
December 14th, 2007 at 11:25 amBoortz
December 14th, 2007 at 11:27 amJoneser specializes in designing men’s bathrooms for two.
December 14th, 2007 at 11:34 amJoneser specializes in designing men’s bathrooms for two.
Comment by nanlichi
Does he just design them or is he also an in staller?
December 14th, 2007 at 11:37 amBush to Berry: “I can’t quit you”
December 14th, 2007 at 11:37 amA lib’s second most affective tool is slander / divisive / derisive painting of a conservative, when a conflict isn’t handy.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — December 14, 2007 @ 10:33 am
Apparently you and JoJo are unaware that this is a progressive site. You come HERE and we’re the people who are uncivil. Do we come to your neighborhood and insult you? You two can resume your courtship now.
December 14th, 2007 at 11:39 amApparently you and JoJo are unaware that this is a progressive site. You come HERE and we’re the people who are uncivil. Do we come to your neighborhood and insult you? You two can resume your courtship now.
Comment by Shayne
You can’t go there anyway. Right-wing extremist sites, like the Freepers, do not allow dissenters. Try it and you will be removed immediately.
December 14th, 2007 at 11:43 am#56 Shoeless:
I’m still waiting for a definiton of attach similies myself.
Comment by patooty
:)
Ummm, did you just attach a similie?
That’s a salt and barratry, in my way of thinking.
Cheers,
December 14th, 2007 at 11:46 am81 Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — December 14, 2007 @ 11:10 am
what do you mean by that one? At anyrate I think would be rather weak to impersonate anyone on here.
88 where were you insulted?
December 14th, 2007 at 11:48 am#72 Joneser:
I questioned what my 99.44% left teachers taught. some i took in, some i questioned, most didn’t work for me.
We noticed already. No need to point out the obvious (although to you it might not have seemed that way; research has shown that stoopid people are too stoopid to know they’re stoopid).
Cheers,
December 14th, 2007 at 11:53 am89
i don’t go to right wing blogs… and if that sight kicks you out because you have dissent, that’s a shame and all the more to why i wouldn’t go there. And yes despite the insults thrown my way here at TP, it is better than being kicked, so hey credit to the moderators.
i come on here to hear the otherside, not to drop bombs in a CAPS and scream chicken little crap or the language, those guys get no audience. What purpose does it serve, it takes away from the discussion. Its like (analogy coming) being handed a fine cigar but as you light it, you are told it came from Clinton’s personal humidor. ;) Joke, relax.
December 14th, 2007 at 11:57 amComment by hellinabucket — December 14, 2007 @ 11:07 am
Thank you for your kind words, seems to me that the MSM today only air opinions, not real news, and they no longer take the time to explain the issue from all sides, much to our loss as educated people. Which is why I get my news from online sources as non-traditional channels from my satellite provider. I have not watched the MSM in years, with the exception of a few programs, which I will try to catch occasionally.
The “dumbing down” of America is a symptom of a greater malaise, I believe we are still fighting the same core issues as we did some 40 years ago. Only now both sides are so entrenched in their thinking, that a solution is impossible.
It is quite possible we (the baby boomer’s) will be remembered by history as the “Looser Generation”. As they say, “united we stand, divided we fall”.
A people united can accomplish anything (defeat of Fascism and Militarism, the Mercury, Gemini and Apollo programs, to name two examples) and a people divided can accomplish nothing remarkable.
We have never needed “men of goodwill” as much as we need today, with all the divisiveness and contention on top of the real problems we face as a society.
December 14th, 2007 at 11:59 am92 - 93
;) 6 of one, half dozen of the other. But hey whatever gets your rocks off guys.
December 14th, 2007 at 12:00 pm#72 Joneser:
I questioned what my 99.44% left teachers taught. some i took in, some i questioned, most didn’t work for me.
We noticed already. No need to point out the obvious (although to you it might not have seemed that way; research has shown that stoopid people are too stoopid to know they’re stoopid).
Cheers,
Comment by zuch
I’m sure most of his questions were about his grades.
December 14th, 2007 at 12:01 pmKeep rolling Citizen earth…
sad part is we are two sides of the same coin and people are too busy calling the other something else that things are lost in translation.
December 14th, 2007 at 12:02 pmI won’t question the profession of anyone here. It’s immaterial. What I will question is the content of postings related to current events without facts. I haven’t seen one poster defend these talkshow hosts with any evidence.
Joneser attempted to but only thru out an opinion. Not any evidence.
So he’s an architect. Congratulations. I’m a vet. I’ll listen to him if I’m discussing architecture. I would hope he would listen to me when we discuss military conflicts.
December 14th, 2007 at 12:04 pm97 yeah… understandable i realize some of you don’t multi task…
December 14th, 2007 at 12:06 pmI will sharpen up my spelling for you all on the BLOG ok… I mean i know its an elite thing to be “progressive”. I mean of course you all reserve the right to judge me for spelling. But hey I’m just a product of affirmative action after all (sigh).
Comment by Joneser — December 14, 2007 @ 12:02 pm
That or we are too busy trashing talking and disparaging each other, disrespect is easy, respect requires character and courage. Building bridges of mutual trust requires honest dialogue, I don’t see much of that today, here and elsewhere in our society. And yes, we are two sides of the same coin, we are interconnected and interdependent, only you won’t get an admission of that from at least half of the folks.
Well, cause and effect, we will reap what we have sown, and I fear we will reap a whirlwind.
December 14th, 2007 at 12:08 pm99 Comment by hellinabucket — December 14, 2007 @ 12:04 pm
What part did i say was opinion? Thanks for the fact that yes my profession is immaterial… my only reason for stating it was saying I was exposed to a “Liberal Arts” education and concentrated at that. Hey why’d you choice that blogger name? just curious.
December 14th, 2007 at 12:09 pmComment by Citizen_of_Earth — December 14, 2007 @ 11:59 am
100% agreed. The sides are too entrenched.
Joneser, people do spend too much time cutting down the other instead of promoting the facts that support their side. This isn’t a republican or democratic problem. It’s an American problem.
A people united can accomplish many wonderous things. We first have to be informed (fairness doctrine) and then collectively decide to take action.
We are too complacent for that. Until we are shaken to our core we won’t be moved to act. Big business makes sure that we still have cable tv, new cars, microwave dinners and video games as to not make us upset.
Those who have not are the ones that will conquer the ones that have. A brief look thru history will show you that change happens when a society gets too comfortable with itself.
December 14th, 2007 at 12:13 pmComment by Joneser — December 14, 2007 @ 12:09 pm
Your opinion that the president and these talkshow mouthpieces are conservative.
The name is from a Grateful Dead song of the same name.
December 14th, 2007 at 12:15 pmPresident Bush “smiled, patted him on the back and said, ‘Keep it up. We need you guys.’
December 14th, 2007 at 12:18 pm“WE ARE DESPERATE!”
Bottom line for Joneser and Jason: you and your party support the idea that America should be torturing people, that America should have a system which denies healthcare to 50 million citizens, that America should be bombing countries which have not attacked us or even threatened us and that America should be a stratified Victorian-society with a landed aristocracy and a huge, uneducated underclass.
All your silly, phony right-wing rhetoric can’t change the fact that this is where you stand: completely at odds with the values our Founding Fathers had in mind when they risked their lives to build this country. Peole like you should be ashamed of yourselves, but sociopaths have no ability or inclination to feel shame.
December 14th, 2007 at 12:19 pmLying is so much easier when it’s done though willing surrogates.
December 14th, 2007 at 12:25 pm104… I here you… and hey we can disagree about the Fairness Doctrine. I think technology and media etc.. is full of alternate thought an opinion, hence why i come on here. As far as they are conservative… well I look at what they say and/ or do.
Specific to the point…
Hannity? I never liked his show… its not really hard hitting enough for me nor does he allow for much challenge. But he is conservative in that Mashmellow puff way kind of way.
Limbaugh? Well he has an entertaining formula even if he is talking to himself. Can’t explain it…
Laura Ingraham… i odn’t know if you listen to her… she is funny at times and she stands up for what she beleives in and she has on challenging guests.
Michael Medved… I really enjoy his show and he constanly has on differing opinion, Chomsky for example…
I enjoy Dennis Prager as well… but i don’t here him much anymore.
But whatever… they are conservative if sit down and listen to them… at anyrate Hellinabucket, maybe we can’t say we are friends, but somewhere we are kindred spirits and thank you for your service.
Oh and is it me or do you think vets, particualrly combat vets should be tax exempt for life? If ever there was something to rally around it would be that.
December 14th, 2007 at 12:30 pms/b “through” in 107.
December 14th, 2007 at 12:30 pmCol., I wasn’t referring to the illegal torture and economic conquests being committed by this administration and supported by the current republicans.
I agree with you. I was referring to countless and needless attacks that come from both sides but don’t lead to biapartisan progress.
December 14th, 2007 at 12:32 pmradio jocks can say whatever they want, but when they masquerade as political experts, and “inform” their audience that unicorns, fairies, and witches DO exist, and “need to be dealt with” they’ve crossed the line into the area of “public disservice”.
December 14th, 2007 at 12:33 pmwhat countless and needless attacks have Hartmann or Maddow launched?
December 14th, 2007 at 12:34 pm106… Rip
December 14th, 2007 at 12:35 pmDeep breathes… please… too busy muddying the waters man… I odn’t believe in torture by any means. The difference is the definition for us. Some of our treaties and documents have been so nuanced that opnion about its meaning has become so grey… I am not saying your view is wrong so much as i am saying this is what I take from the situation and results…. calling me phony or anyoneelse isn’t going to cause me to be open to your thoughts an ideals. Calling me a sociopath says nothing either. I think about my future and my children just as well as you.
Dennis Miller is propagating the no taxes for life deal, I would assume to try to undo some of the “phony soldiers” damage that the guys on his new team have done.
December 14th, 2007 at 12:36 pmThe republicans have been slashing healthcare and other benifits for vets for some time now. Joneser, how do you square yourself with this?
December 14th, 2007 at 12:36 pmhellinabucket: “I was referring to countless and needless attacks that come from both sides but don’t lead to biapartisan progress.”
Hell, I like your posts and no offense intended, but for me and as an American, I cannot compromise with people who sanction torture and believe in an “Imperial Presidency,” period. In my opinion, these positions are simply un-american and I cannot see any reason to compromise on that.
December 14th, 2007 at 12:37 pm113… WOW nough said… appreciate your passion though
December 14th, 2007 at 12:38 pmseriously - i wouldn’t know, i don’t listen much.
December 14th, 2007 at 12:38 pmand if you want to see the thread descend into a brawl, keep it up with the smarmy condescencion - it may be enough to help D. Miller get paid, but it really doesn’t fly with me.
December 14th, 2007 at 12:40 pmanother AM radio Mynah bird.
December 14th, 2007 at 12:41 pmI am in total agreement Col.. I have been against this adminstration from the beginning.
Joneser, for your reading. The US definition of torture:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/ uscode/ 18/ usc_sec_18_00002340—-000-.html
(1) “torture†means an act committed by a person acting under the color of law specifically intended to inflict severe physical or mental pain or suffering (other than pain or suffering incidental to lawful sanctions) upon another person within his custody or physical control;
(2) “severe mental pain or suffering†means the prolonged mental harm caused by or resulting from—
(A) the intentional infliction or threatened infliction of severe physical pain or suffering;
(B) the administration or application, or threatened administration or application, of mind-altering substances or other procedures calculated to disrupt profoundly the senses or the personality;
(C) the threat of imminent death; or
(D) the threat that another person will imminently be subjected to death, severe physical pain or suffering, or the administration or application of mind-altering substances or other procedures calculated to disrupt profoundly the senses or personality; and
(3) “United States†means the several States of the United States, the District of Columbia, and the commonwealths, territories, and possessions of the United States.
Waterboarding is the threat of imminent death. Everyone who has testified of what they felt while being put thru this is that they were going to drown.
What do you base your belief that it’s not torture? And why do you think this can be done in your/our name(s)?
December 14th, 2007 at 12:43 pmBoortz still had lipstick on his cheek, from the White House Christmas Party last night.
December 14th, 2007 at 12:44 pmWhen did Bush start wearing lipstick?
Comment by Klem Kiddilehopper — December 14, 2007 @ 12:44 pm
Are you sure that’s where Bush kissed him?
December 14th, 2007 at 12:45 pmComment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper — December 14, 2007 @ 12:19 pm
From what I can see, there are many parallels today, in some circles, with the early ideology of the National Socialists in Germany, namely:
* rampant nationalism
* intolerance for anyone who does not agree with their ideology
* desire for apocalyptic bloodshed
* attack on open dialogue and progressive thinking
* similar laws to protect society from a perceived danger (the Nuremburg Laws and the Patriot Act 1 and 2)
* disenfranchisement and demonization of entire groups of citizens
* disinformation of facts
* indoctrination of young people (Jesus Camp)
* anyone who does not believe as they do, are evil incarnate, a sub-human
* sub-humans will be wiped off the face of the earth by the righteous and patriotic people
I see a clear and present danger to our democracy, and it is not from a foreign enemy, radical clerics, or undocumented workers. It is from within our own borders. It is from the people who would have you lose your freedom for the sake of salvation and safety. For those who need proof, consider Rod Parsley, Pentecostal pastor of the World Harvest megachurch in Columbus, Ohio, who recently said from his pulpit:
I don’t fear the radical Muslims as much as I fear these people, they are nothing more than the same thing, only much closer to my home, and able to get here within hours, thanks to the Interstate.
December 14th, 2007 at 12:47 pm116
i have always liked the idea… even before Miller and I very much doubt that “phony soldier” mantra that has been so FUBAR’d had anything to do with it.
117
As far as Vet healthcare I am not too familiar with it, honestly. But, if REPUBLICANS are behind it… that’s terrible. I hope it isn’t that simple and a combination of cause and effect. It will not make me trade my principals in but it will definitly drive me to change that mindset. I don’t prescribe to GOP or DNC to tell you the truth… It is true most Liberals are Dems but no all Dems are Libs just like most conservatives are (R) but not all (R)’s are conservative. But I am not a registered GOP’er and doubt I would unless I was running for public office (yes Ripper, Juan C, god for bid) I think a party has to come to me the voter… I go to them when I want a change.
December 14th, 2007 at 12:49 pmCalling me a sociopath says nothing either. I think about my future and my children just as well as you.
Comment by Joneser — December 14, 2007 @ 12:35 pm
Sure you don’t believe in torture, but you don’t believe waterboarding is torture. Funny it aways was until Bushco started waterboarding. Now it’s just like swimming. And you have the nerve to accuse Co. Ripper of muddying the water.
December 14th, 2007 at 12:51 pmAnd for the record nobody really cares what you think or feel. If you need somebody to stroke your ego go over to Red States or somewhere your peers hang out.
Dennis Miller is propagating the no taxes for life deal, I would assume to try to undo some of the “phony soldiers†damage that the guys on his new team have done.
Comment by tombaker — December 14, 2007 @ 12:36 pm
Probaqbly because he’s flushed his once promising career down the toilet and is now pandering to attract some listeners to a flailing radio show. Eff him and the horse he rode in on.
December 14th, 2007 at 12:52 pmBoortz still had lipstick on his cheek, from the White House Christmas Party last night.
When did Bush start wearing lipstick?
Comment by Klem Kiddilehopper — December 14,
You saw this cheek? Were his pant pulled down?
December 14th, 2007 at 12:55 pm124… thanks Hellinabucket
Here is where it the difference comes into play… and this isn’t some sick view… Here is where we have our line.
The idea of imminent death. Yes they “think” they are but the result is not nor are they in any immediate danger of dying… ala say hanging someone over the edge of a building by they’re pinky toe. So the CIA played on the “thought” of a suspect and not that they actually would kill the suspect… i odn’t know… call it splitting hairs. Further more I guess i need to find out about “prolonged” mental or physical effects which I have not heard occuring. Nonetheless, it doesn’t make me a monster… i am open to any solution to get information from a suspect and not one that involves “bamboo shoots or electrodes” If waterboarding is the highest extent we go in terms of “torture” we got a long way to go.
December 14th, 2007 at 1:02 pm132 … Ripper
MAN, lol… chill… nah nevermind… screw that… I almost wanted to comment to that last one, but why?
December 14th, 2007 at 1:04 pm131 good stuff Shayne… Merry Christmas, man
December 14th, 2007 at 1:05 pmIt was developed during the Spanish Inquisition. An American officer was courtmarshaled for doing it during the Phillipine insurrection. A member of the Japanese Imperial Army was executed for doing it during WWII. Members of the German Army and former SS Officers were executed and/or put in prison for life for doing it during WWII. Members of our own military intelligence were courtmarshaled and imprisoned for doing it in Viet Nam.
Joneser is not sure it’s really torture and supports people who favor the use of it during interrogations. Sorry, Jones, but in my world, which is the real world, that DOES make you a monster.
December 14th, 2007 at 1:09 pmNo, Jones, I’m not going to “chill.” If you had the slightest bit of insight into human decency you would understand why. In my opinion, if you cherish what our Founders felt were “American values” and you’re not angry, you’re just not paying attention.
December 14th, 2007 at 1:11 pmI’d like to apologize to the liberal posters around here for being such an a-hole this morning, but some things just set me off. When I see people acting like reasonable Americans while supporting the proposition that we should be torturing people my blood starts to boil. These conservatives are simply ruining our country and I want them all relegated to the dustbin of history as a bad memory.
December 14th, 2007 at 1:16 pmRipper…
I could take in most of what you say if you didn’t waste most your energy on insulting me or my intelligence. Clearly your goal isn’t to pursuade me or educate me. But that’s the difference between me and you. I think people can be open to things if you give them a perspective they can identify with.
December 14th, 2007 at 1:17 pm138 I’d like to apologize to the liberal posters around here for being such an a-hole this morning, but some things just set me off.
—————
and yesterday?
December 14th, 2007 at 1:18 pmJoneser, you are justifying an act of torture for what means? Are you just going to take the word of this administration when there has been no actionable intelligence that has come from this torture?
The Col. presents cases in our history where men stood up against this very act. Including prosecuting our own to uphold the law. The scare of the unseen bogey man terrorist is nothing new and we shouldn’t be fooled into believing we need this now.
December 14th, 2007 at 1:19 pmOf course he needs them, Catapulting propaganda is hard work.
December 14th, 2007 at 1:20 pmDixie - that’s not even the topic of the thread - why don’t you drop it?
December 14th, 2007 at 1:23 pmTell John McCain, and those 30 Admirals and Generals that they’re dangerous and reckless - maybe call’em pussies while you’re at it, and explain to them how and why you know so much more about it than they do.
Then some back here, and tell us all what they had to say.
December 14th, 2007 at 1:24 pmRipper…
Clearly your goal isn’t to pursuade me or educate me.
Comment by Joneser
Why would he waste his time trying to educate you? Your teachers already gave it their best shot, and 99.44% of their efforts bounced right off your thick skull, remember?
December 14th, 2007 at 1:27 pmSouthern a-hole: “Ask Hillary about it and she lies through her teeth, †no way my administration would do such a thing.—
Add mind-reading to Southern a-hole’s list of talents.
December 14th, 2007 at 1:31 pmCol. Ripper,
No apologies needed, you have earned the respect of anyone here that counts. Sometimes it’s good to try to discuss things with the trolls, sometimes you feel like emptying the clip. They are not here to discuss or to learn, but to prod and derail threads. Pretty sad bunch really, but better to be pitied. How would you like it if you realized the empty suit you have been defending is as incompetent an ass as Boy George?
December 14th, 2007 at 1:32 pmSouthern idiot: “We have turned the millitary men into political men/women.”
They always have been. If you had clue one about history you’d understand that. Our first president was a General, dumbass.
December 14th, 2007 at 1:32 pmAdd mind-reading to Southern a-hole’s list of talents.
Comment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper — December 14, 2007 @ 1:31 pm
It’s apparently a special troll superpower. Bigfoot can do it too.
December 14th, 2007 at 1:33 pmThanks, nanlichi, but I really have gone off the rail today. I’m not having a very good day. You’ve just made me feel a little better.
December 14th, 2007 at 1:34 pmThanks, nanlichi, but I really have gone off the rail today. I’m not having a very good day. You’ve just made me feel a little better.
Comment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper — December 14, 2007 @ 1:34 pm
I think you haven’t been paying attention, Colonel. Check a few of the other threads to see what happens when someone really does go off the rail. Your efforts are modest by comparison.
December 14th, 2007 at 1:36 pmDix - if they were dipping their knuckles in sh*t and licking them, would you follow suit?
(a fave of my dad’s when i was a kid wanting to do what “all the other kids” were doing)
December 14th, 2007 at 1:38 pmand yesterday?
Comment by Joneser — December 14, 2007 @ 1:18 pm
He wasn’t talking to you in the first place. Did you not see where it said “to the LIBERAL posters”?
December 14th, 2007 at 1:38 pmComment by hellinabucket — December 14, 2007 @ 1:19 pm
By no means…. i am cooresponding with you because yes… i appreciate opinion especially differing done in a civil manner. It puts things in my head to think about. Its a principal that I haven’t applied [torture and its definition] in all aspects and sides. It something I do want to think fully on. It says nothing that I think condone something that without regard of outcome.
December 14th, 2007 at 1:39 pmI don’t “trust” the government fully let alone this administration to a full extent. At anyrate, you brought your point to the table and I will digest them. Thanks for the Parler
Gum - you must be alluding to Benderbee, and his 36-hour-and-counting “war on that damned atheist bruce gorton”
I was tempted, then scooted to these other threads instead.
December 14th, 2007 at 1:39 pmThanks to you too, gummitch!
December 14th, 2007 at 1:40 pmThe Col. doesn’t parse words. I enjoy reading his passion to support and defend this country and our constitution from any and all attacks.
December 14th, 2007 at 1:40 pmWhy don’t we ask if her husband’s administration did it. Of course they did, but that’s the past.
Comment by Southern Man — December 14, 2007 @ 1:21 pm
Do you have any evidence of this or did you just remove your head so you could pull it out of your ass?
December 14th, 2007 at 1:41 pmI’m not having a very good day. You’ve just made me feel a little better.
Comment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper — December 14, 2007 @ 1:34 pm
I thought you were having an excellent day. Thanks for the effort.
December 14th, 2007 at 1:44 pm145
I thanks for setting me straight RIP.
December 14th, 2007 at 1:44 pmThis shows why delusional people with feeble minds should not be allowed to watch “24″.
December 14th, 2007 at 2:11 pmDix - that’s a fine example, if and only if you know exactly who to apply your technique to. What if you don’t?
(not tryin to smartass ya here, just askin’)
December 14th, 2007 at 2:12 pmnot to mention the “what if” they lie to you, and send you off on a 2-hour goose chase - no way to know if what they’ve “spilled” is legit information.
December 14th, 2007 at 2:14 pmor the “what if” they’re so hardcore, they’d let you kill them before they spilled anything (and I think the real terrorists are, in fact, that hardcore - shoot, they blow themselves up - pretty hardcore)
December 14th, 2007 at 2:15 pmOh Southern Man, contrive much?
Here’s a similar hypothetical. A cab driver, Colin McKenna, shows up at the police station with his wife and two kids and says he witnessed some swarthy little bastards setting a bomb in the stadium and it’s going to go off in two hours during the football game. The darkies told him that if he told anyone they would kill the kids. What to do, what to do???
You try torturing him, but the mick’s a tough one. You have an hour left and Southern Man says, “threaten to kill his kids, he’ll talk.†So Southern Man puts a pistol to the daughter’s ear and tells Colin he’d better start talking, but Colin doesn’t because after all it’s America and we don’t do that sort of thing, right?
But Southern Man says that we have 50,000 Americans in that stadium, we have to get this guy to talk, and pulls the trigger. Then points it at the son’s head. After Southern Man licks the blood off his fingers, he grabs a pencil and starts writing because it worked. Colin is sobbing and holding the pieces of hair in his hands and tells them exactly where the bomb is.
It’s worth it right? Sure cold blooded murder is wrong, but you saved all those people.
But when you get to the stadium and find the bomb, it’s just the guts from an old computer and a note that says “Ha ha ha, fooled you. Brophy High Rules!!â€
December 14th, 2007 at 2:19 pmo well fu then Dix- - ya dishonest p.o.s.
December 14th, 2007 at 2:21 pmif all those big, giant IF’s all lined up I’d do it in a minute,
even if i was then lied to, failed to catch’em and may daughter died, and i went to prison for what i did.
as long as we live in an imaginary world, we can do whatever we want.
unfortunately for your example (test, whatever you want to call it)
December 14th, 2007 at 2:23 pmwe don’t.
no i’m not saying i’d do nothing
i’m saying your rickety example is, for lack of a better word, dumb.
December 14th, 2007 at 2:24 pmNo wait! Here’s one!
Ok, ok, ok, a guy gives you a bomb in a suitcase and tells you to set it off or he will set off the other bombs he has hidden all around the country. Your choice, one city, or the whole country, what would you do?
Come on progs, it’s a stupid ridiculous scenario, but I am demanding an answer, because my thought process is primitive and one dimensional.
Southern Comfortless.
December 14th, 2007 at 2:25 pmI’d rather not be such a craven coward that I had to have thugs defend me.
December 14th, 2007 at 2:25 pmOne too many episodes of 24 in the house of Dixie. Nice how you frame something into a corner (unrealistic as well) and then demand an answer to your loaded question.
You assume you will be given the truth. You also assume that the one’s currently being tortured are giving the truth. There is no basis for this other than your belief.
I entirely believe you have unconditional love for your daughter. I don’t believe those are the same motives that torture is being used today.
December 14th, 2007 at 2:26 pmyou’re dishonest because you deny the truth of the questions i challenged your silly ticking-clock example with.
you won’t answer to them, because you know they prove your example is silly.
December 14th, 2007 at 2:27 pmas long as we live in an imaginary world, we can do whatever we want.
unfortunately for your example (test, whatever you want to call it)
we don’t.
Comment by tombaker
Oh, but he does live in an imaginary world, where he is a macho tough guy who saves the day, while the bad guys cringe in fear of his righteous wrath.
December 14th, 2007 at 2:30 pmIf we simpify the debate to the point where it doesn’t represent the real-world possibilities, then what are we accomplishing?
December 14th, 2007 at 2:39 pmHey, what part of “torture is illegal” don’t you understand?
December 14th, 2007 at 2:40 pmGive it up SM, it really is a ridiculous scenario. Of course you can contrive a situation where you would justify torture, or murder. I can contrive a scenario wherein you would sacrifice your lovely daughter to save a city. Or sacrifice a city to save a country. These situations make for good stories and TV shows. Hellinabucket says it pretty cleanly in #174.
December 14th, 2007 at 2:42 pmSouthern Man, there has been no actionable intelligence gathered from torture. Everything that Zubayhda gave up was already known and it was inbetween multiple blatherings that have been recorded as the man is a boarder line nutcase and isn’t credible.
You continue to have this or that, yes or no, a or b type questions. Where is the letter of the law in any of that? Where is the upholding of our constitution? Where is Habeaus Corpus?
Polling in this country would elect Homer Simpson over any candidate on either side. Does that make Homer Simpson the most qualified?
Never said we torture just to torture. You are missing the issue that our constitution is being subverted. We live in a democracy and you are willing to give up the right to hold our officals accountable and to the letter of the law.
I’m not.
December 14th, 2007 at 2:47 pmhellinabucket at 2:26. Used to be #174.
December 14th, 2007 at 2:47 pmPrescient!!!!
hellinabucket at #174, just as I predicted it would be.
December 14th, 2007 at 2:49 pmWhy do these wingnuts think they get to decide whether toture is acceptable? There are LAWS against such things, and the US has been in the forefront of setting such presedence.
After World War II, we convicted several Japanese soldiers for waterboarding American and Allied prisoners of war. At the trial of his captors, then-Lt. Chase J. Nielsen, one of the 1942 Army Air Forces officers who flew in the Doolittle Raid and was captured by the Japanese, testified: “I was given several types of torture. . . . I was given what they call the water cure.” He was asked what he felt when the Japanese soldiers poured the water. “Well, I felt more or less like I was