By Evan Wallach
Sunday, November 4, 2007; Page B01

. . . .

After World War II, we convicted several Japanese soldiers for waterboarding American and Allied prisoners of war. At the trial of his captors, then-Lt. Chase J. Nielsen, one of the 1942 Army Air Forces officers who flew in the Doolittle Raid and was captured by the Japanese, testified: “I was given several types of torture. . . . I was given what they call the water cure.” He was asked what he felt when the Japanese soldiers poured the water. “Well, I felt more or less like I was drowning,” he replied, “just gasping between life and death.”

Nielsen’s experience was not unique. Nor was the prosecution of his captors.

. . . .

Ust a refresher for America’s historic view and response to waterboarding.

Hey, Stan, what’s that we’re looking at?
Ollie says Stan: you goof, that is what is left of the most honest, forthright and noble city on what’s left of earth. They were known not to torture the terrorists whom they captured and released! These were the same guys who set the nuclear bomb off!!
Stan says to Ollie: Well I don’t think that’s a funny joke!
Yeah but the Terrorists Did!!
Ollie: Oh I get it! We inherited the Earth. Cool. Taste what’s left of this kid over here. Yuuummmmm!

Remember boys & girly boys, girls & manly-girls , cross-dressers, sexually confused trans-gender its, that the Congressmen and Senators that vote for NO-WATERBOARDING are willing to let you and your (whatever) world be a victim of Islam Clerics. Is that ok with you?? Hope so, because that’s what you will get within 5 years or less if this stupid effort becomes law!!

I’ll trade you [1] Islamic/Muslim terrorist for 67,000 Mexigrants! 13 gays and two tasty Canadians.(Thanks Ian Punnit).

Mr. CoffeCup say “O-Tay”

And as to your comment that prisoners have Constitutional rights, would you care to elaborate whether you meant some or all, and possibly which ones they do not have.

How is it that you have the proper security clearance and need-to-know to state the “facts” that you purport as truths?

“Speak loudly and carry a limp stick.”

Pay attention. “another form…” Meaning not as controlled and systematic as we do it. Nice try though, I will give you that.

“…that waterboarding has resulted in death…” Reread your post and dig a little deeper. No death. I have researched this topic to an exhausting extent. There is no recorded case of waterboarding, when done correctly or incorrectly, that resulted in a death. If you find one, please let me know because I can’t find one. If someone did drown, it’s not waterboarding and those conducting that interrogation should be prosecuted.

You are a slickery little booger. You don’t gamble do you? If you did, you would know when to cut your loses and go home.

As for Nance… The name rings a bell… I simply disagree with him. “Counterterrorism expert” is a stretch, in my opinion.

Comment by Stubain — December 15, 2007 @ 5:41 am

From TPMmuckraker

Counterterrorism expert Malcolm Nance, a veteran of counterterrorism operations in Iraq, has written a moving post for the counterinsurgency blog Small Wars Journal explaining, in more detail than anyone else has in public, what exactly waterboarding is. And Nance knows what he’s talking about. As a former instructor at the Navy’s training program, Nance (full disclosure, a TPMm pal) confesses that he “personally led, witnessed and supervised waterboarding of hundreds of people” — not detainees, of course, but would-be SEALs, so they could learn how (hopefully) to resist torture. That training program, known as Survival, Evasion, Resistance, Escape (SERE), became a template for how to abuse detainees in U.S. custody.

Nance’s experience leads him to some sharp conclusions:

1. Waterboarding is a torture technique. Period. There is no way to gloss over it or sugarcoat it. It has no justification outside of its limited role as a training demonstrator. Our service members have to learn that the will to survive requires them accept and understand that they may be subjected to torture, but that America is better than its enemies and it is one’s duty to trust in your nation and God, endure the hardships and return home with honor.

2. Waterboarding is not a simulation. Unless you have been strapped down to the board, have endured the agonizing feeling of the water overpowering your gag reflex, and then feel your throat open and allow pint after pint of water to involuntarily fill your lungs, you will not know the meaning of the word.

Waterboarding is a controlled drowning that, in the American model, occurs under the watch of a doctor, a psychologist, an interrogator and a trained strap-in/strap-out team. It does not simulate drowning, as the lungs are actually filling with water. There is no way to simulate that. The victim is drowning. How much the victim is to drown depends on the desired result (in the form of answers to questions shouted into the victim’s face) and the obstinacy of the subject. A team doctor watches the quantity of water that is ingested and for the physiological signs which show when the drowning effect goes from painful psychological experience, to horrific suffocating punishment to the final death spiral.

Waterboarding is slow motion suffocation with enough time to contemplate the inevitability of black out and expiration –usually the person goes into hysterics on the board. For the uninitiated, it is horrifying to watch and if it goes wrong, it can lead straight to terminal hypoxia. When done right it is controlled death. Its lack of physical scarring allows the victim to recover and be threaten with its use again and again.

Call it “Chinese Water Torture,” “the Barrel,” or “the Waterfall,” it is all the same. Whether the victim is allowed to comply or not is usually left up to the interrogator. Many waterboard team members, even in training, enjoy the sadistic power of making the victim suffer and often ask questions as an after thought. These people are dangerous and predictable and when left unshackled, unsupervised or undetected they bring us the murderous abuses seen at Abu Ghraieb, Baghram and Guantanamo. No doubt, to avoid human factors like fear and guilt someone has created a one-button version that probably looks like an MRI machine with high intensity waterjets.

“We have prosecuted foreigners for waterboarding American military.”
- rockyroad

Comment by Stubain — December 15, 2007 @ 6:56 am

From an article about Mukasey’s confirmation hearings:

[In] 1947, the United States charged a Japanese officer, Yukio Asano, with war crimes for carrying out another form of waterboarding on a U.S. civilian. The subject was strapped on a stretcher that was tilted so that his feet were in the air and head near the floor, and small amounts of water were poured over his face, leaving him gasping for air until he agreed to talk.

“Asano was sentenced to 15 years of hard labor,” Sen. Edward M. Kennedy (D-Mass.) told his colleagues last Thursday during the debate on military commissions legislation. “We punished people with 15 years of hard labor when waterboarding was used against Americans in World War II,” he said

There’s your confirmation that waterboarding has resulted in death and that it is drowning, and there’s your name of someone who was convicted. Are there any other “facts” in your collection that need correcting?

BS. Name one case. This is a lie.

“Just follow the rule of law . . . enforce it . . . ”
- rockyroad

Does that go for illegal aliens, too? Securing the border? Lying under oath? Lib voter fraud in Chi, IL and OH, and suppressing military absentee votes in FL in 2000? etc, etc, etc. I could go on, but even you nutty libs get the point.

You nutty libs, you have very selective outrage.

The only thing we have to fear is fear itself, in which case, the only thing we have to fear is wrong doing and complicity by our own party. Feel the fear and do it anyway.

Enough. This is crap and EVERYBODY knows it.

Clean house . . . even if you are swept out in the process.

It’s your duty Nancy.

We, as parties to the Geneva Convention (a treaty), are forbidden from torture. We have prosecuted foreigners for waterboarding American military.

We don’t need a law, we need a clue. Article Six of the United States Constitution:

“This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.”

I don’t see a Bush “terrorist” exemption. Just follow the rule of law . . . enforce it . . . we do not need extra legislation stating that we will abide by the Constitution.

I knew you were misguided, but now I am beginning to think you don’t have the capacity to be honest. First, water does not get poured into your lungs. It is, in fact, simulated drowning. Something is put over the suspects mouth (plastic, towel, etc.) and it does feel like you are drowning, but you’re not. No one has ever died from this technique. It is quite uncomfortable, but far from torture. It is a very effective technique without bodily harm being done.

Bart, dude, you really need to check what you post so you don’t end up looking like a horse’s hind parts.

“These guys are committing sucide left and right in Gitmo…” BARTLEBEE

This is a lie. Plain and simple. The islamists are treated like kings at Gitmo. They have more freedom and goodies than the troops guarding them. They have Constitutional protections for crying out loud. How absurd. Only a handful have offed themselves at Gitmo – and good riddance. Get your facts straight.

“Call these things what you will, but they’re war crimes in any other civiilized nation, and to MOST of the civilized population of our planet.”

It’s funny none of you anti America types cried a river when Slick Willy’s CIA was doing the same thing. Your pure hatred of all things Bush has so clouded your ability to reason, that only a complete socialist dictatorship will make you happy.

All you said is ignorant at best, and most likely, outright lies.

The majority agrees that waterboarding, as practiced by the United States, does not constitute torture. Therefore, there is no push in the U.S. to stop the practice.

The majority believe it IS torture. Not to mention the ONLY republican Presidential candidate to have been waterboarded by our enemies says it is, most definitely, torture.
The acting Legal Counsel at the justice department (appointed by Bush), Daniel Levin, submitted to Water Boarding to make his decision. He concludd that it was torture and was dismissed.
The instructors at the SEAR school, namely Malcolm Nance, says it is torture.
The rest of the world says it is torture. It is torture

A clear majority also believe that if it means saving American lives, the procedure deemed “waterboarding”, and utilized by the CIA, should indeed be used.

Those that have fought for this country do so because this country does not torture. We are better than our enemies. We stand for Justice and morality. It is difficult to kill for anything less.

They chose this fight, not us. The United States has been completely correct in taking the fight to them.

Another, lie. We chose to fight them. We invaded their country. This doesn’t even consider how flimsy the evidence is when we catch the people we “don’t torture” with waterboarding.

You obviously have no idea what it takes to stand up on principle and don’t understand what the US was based on. At the very least, you could use facts , instead of stating what you would like to be true and then not backing any of it up.

Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 15, 2007 @ 2:36 am

Hold on one minute here, friend. On whose word are you stating that “waterboarding as practiced by the U.S. does not constitute torture”? The government’s? Hardly a reliable source I think you must agree, as they have zero credibility when asked about anything even remotely illegal. That is an indisputable fact. Waterboarding is torture. Only a sick human being would see any justification for its use, no matter how many ridiculous, and never going to happen in real life, scenarios of the Jack Bauer fantasy they love to terrify people with.

As to your next two disconnected statements (another straw man, BTW), you ignore the well-reported fact that we have renditioned prisoners to countries that do utilize torture, so the U.S. does endorse torture. It is the truth.