Rep. King: ‘Every Child’ In American Schools Needs To Learn ‘The Tenets Of The Christian Faith’
Rep. King: ‘Every Child’ In American Schools Needs To Learn ‘The Tenets Of The Christian Faith’
Earlier this week, Rep. Steve King (R-IA) introduced legislation recognizing the “importance of Christmas and the Christian faith.” The resolution passed 372-9.
Last Wednesday on Fox News, King said he introduced the bill because he believes “we’re a Christian nation founded on Christian principles.” In an interview on Alan Colmes’ radio show yesterday, King went even further, saying that “every child” should “be taught” the “tenets of Christianity”:
COLMES: Should they be taught Christianity, should every child learn Christianity?
KING: I think they should learn it. If you’re going to learn American history, you cannot teach it without teaching Christianity.
COLMES: It’s one thing to teach the history of how religion may have been part of our growth as a country. It’s another thing to actually teach the tenets of a religion. As if the people going to school should learn the tenets of a particular faith. You’re not saying they should learn the tenets of Christianity, are you?
KING: I think they need to understand the tenets of the Christian faith and other faiths that have affected the history of this country.
Listen to it:
King’s concedes that if “the tenets of Christianity” are to be taught in school, “other faiths” should be taught as well. But given his contention that “the foundation” of “our American culture is Christian” and his need to recognize “the Christian faith” in the Congressional Record, it is difficult to believe the sincerity of King’s attempt at tolerance.
King has shown animosity towards non-Christian religions in the past. As ThinkProgress has noted, he opposed resolutions recognizing the Muslim celebration of Ramadan and the Hindu Diwali. After nine Democrats voted against his “Christian faith” resolution, King attacked them, saying “how they could vote ‘yes’ on Islam, ‘yes’ on the Indian religions and ‘no’ on Christianity.”
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Oh shit, here we go. Doesn’t the right want the feds out of education anymore. Damn flipfloppers.
December 14th, 2007 at 5:20 pmAmerican Christian Taliban Teacher: Class, class. Line-up and grab a rock. Today for recess we’ll stone athiests.
Children: Hooray!
-GSD
December 14th, 2007 at 5:22 pmIn all the words spoken during the interview, wasn’t there one individual who could have something to the effect of: “It’s unconstitutional”? If that concept were discussed more often, maybe the right side would finally remember about that silly, inconvenient document they are attempting to shred.
December 14th, 2007 at 5:23 pmComment by Frank M — December 14, 2007 @ 5:23 pm
How come when I had my students read and examine the Onandogian Creation Mythology in my bio class to be sure that they were exposed to something other than just evolution, those same people that wanted creation freaked out?
December 14th, 2007 at 5:25 pma theology class in high schools would be fine
if the schools had room in their cash-strapped, standardized-testing oriented curriculum.
i teach my kids about those things all the time
December 14th, 2007 at 5:26 pm372-9? That’s shameful…..
December 14th, 2007 at 5:28 pmEvery child should be forced to be a Mormon.
They’re polite and they sing well.
December 14th, 2007 at 5:28 pmIs it that children of christians need to be taught christianity in public schools because there parents are unable or too stupid to do it at home?
December 14th, 2007 at 5:28 pmIf we do this, can we then revoke tax exemption of churches?
There is nothing more alarming in the “modern world” than the rebirth of theocracy. And, frankly, I think teaching children of the petty, jealous, God of Moses, is abusive.
December 14th, 2007 at 5:28 pmKING: I think they need to understand the tenets of the Christian faith and other faiths that have affected the history of this country.
Which is every faith. Scientologists, Branch Davidians, even the Raelians, Heaven’s Gate and the People’s Temple. Sounds like an interesting course, to tell the truth. But I don’t think that’s what Mr. King is wanting.
December 14th, 2007 at 5:29 pm“Onondaga”. Sorry No disrespect intended just a typo
December 14th, 2007 at 5:29 pmThere’s nothing wrong with teaching kids the Ten Commandments.
Comment by Frank M
Yes there is Frank! Geez, dude what country do you live in? If you don’t like the laws around here, then split for somewhere else.
As soon as we introduce religion into the school program, we are no better than the taliban or your own friends; the islamo facists. Your zeal for religion is taking us down to the level of all of our ‘western civilization enemies’.
Please, look around at where you live. Does it look like Saudi Arabia or Egypt? BTW, God is a rumor, anyway.
December 14th, 2007 at 5:30 pmFran, I’m still waiting for you to explain why Jesus was “ruthless”. You can run but you can’t hide.
December 14th, 2007 at 5:31 pmI hate these people. I really do. They’re trying to turn our schools into Christian madrassas – they’re every bit as bad as the fanatic Muslims they rail against.
A colossal pox on BOTH their friggin’ houses!!
December 14th, 2007 at 5:31 pmThat was for Frank. Jesus – ruthless – your words.
December 14th, 2007 at 5:32 pmThere’s nothing wrong with teaching kids the Ten Commandments.
Comment by Frank M — December 14, 2007 @ 5:23 pm
… and how they don’t make a lot of sense.
Quick, Frank – what’s Commandment #4?
December 14th, 2007 at 5:32 pmSo school becomes theologian and teaches and teaches the tenets of ALL religions [secularism]?
And Bill O’Reilly said he won the battle against secular progressives?
I think Mr King just handed O’Reilly a loss.
December 14th, 2007 at 5:32 pmWhat does separation of church and state mean?
December 14th, 2007 at 5:32 pmThere’s nothing wrong with teaching kids the Ten Commandments.
Comment by Frank M — December 14, 2007 @ 5:23 pm
Thou shall not commit adultery.
It didn’t help Newt or Rudy.
December 14th, 2007 at 5:34 pm.
Congress shall make no law…
Just how is the First Amendment NOT credible?
.
December 14th, 2007 at 5:34 pmThere is a dilemma here, repugs are for home schooling and they would expect a Jewish mother to teach her children about Christianity, or a Muslim, Wiccan, or God help us, a GODLESS DEMOCRAT!
December 14th, 2007 at 5:35 pmActually I have to admit I sort of agree with Frank on this one as we have these things called laws which require equal access. I will be happy to let a bunch of this sort of thing go on just so that when I want to bring Satanists, Rastafarians, Sun Worshippers and everyone else into the schools, there will be no legal basis to stop me. I am sure then that the loons will see the point
December 14th, 2007 at 5:35 pm.
YO FRANK M.
THOU SHALL NOT KILL!
.
December 14th, 2007 at 5:35 pmIf these Christian fundamentalists are so secure in they’re faith, why do they worry so much about it being weakened? I would assume that their kids go to church at least a couple of days a week. Do they think their children are so dumb that they will forget what they’ve learned on Sunday before Wednesday? What are they, Scientology wannabes?
December 14th, 2007 at 5:36 pmYeah, we need American Madrasses.
December 14th, 2007 at 5:36 pmAnd it isn’t alarming and abusive to teach the kids that they’re descendants of monkeys and fish, no better than mere animals, and the “gospel†atheism (that there is no hope of life after death)? No wonder they snap and go on shooting sprees.
Frank, the Bible says man is a beast. It says the number of man is 6 and the number of the Lord is 3.
December 14th, 2007 at 5:37 pm#10: And it isn’t alarming and abusive to teach the kids that they’re descendants of monkeys and fish, no better than mere animals, and the “gospel†atheism (that there is no hope of life after death)? No wonder they snap and go on shooting sprees.
Comment by Frank M
So….Monkees and fish are to blame for the schools shootings? You lost me Frank, really lost me.
December 14th, 2007 at 5:38 pm#10: And it isn’t alarming and abusive to teach the kids that they’re descendants of monkeys and fish, no better than mere animals, and the “gospel†atheism (that there is no hope of life after death)? No wonder they snap and go on shooting sprees.
Comment by Frank M — December 14, 2007 @ 5:34 pm
Frank have you ever looked at a biology curriculum? Sorry dude but even the Vatican supports biological evolution. It is about empirical evidences not values judgements. I can share common DNA sequences without placing a judgment on my relative worth as compared to those things I share those sequences with
December 14th, 2007 at 5:38 pmAnd it isn’t alarming and abusive to teach the kids that they’re descendants of monkeys and fish, no better than mere animals, and the “gospel†atheism (that there is no hope of life after death)? No wonder they snap and go on shooting sprees.
Comment by Frank M — December 14, 2007 @ 5:34 pm
If my child has a to be related to monkeys or you, well Frank, pass me a banana. Also, did you see where chimps have faster reflexes and better memories when playing memory games on computers. Perhaps we should let them make up an IQ test and watch you flunk.
December 14th, 2007 at 5:38 pmOh and Frank, the Ten Commandments were handed down to a Jew and that Jew was not Jesus, this time.
December 14th, 2007 at 5:39 pm“There’s nothing wrong with teaching kids the Ten Commandments.”
December 14th, 2007 at 5:40 pm– - If you believe Mel Brooks’ “The History Of The World, Part I,” (and it’s as believeable as the Bible) Moses actually had 15 commandments but dropped and broke a tablet thereby ending up with the 10.
What does separation of church and state mean?
Comment by ForTruth — December 14, 2007 @ 5:32 pm
There will be no test of religion to be a citizen or politician.
Churches will recieve NO public funds.
State can not stop a person from worshipping nor can the state force you to worship any religion.
December 14th, 2007 at 5:40 pm#13: If you would have studied this issue, you would know that all Scandinavian countries have a state church. That is, there is an official state religion: Christianity. School kids attend compulsory classes teaching the basic tenets of Christianity.
Do those countries look like muslim counties? No. They’re peaceful and have high standards of living.
Comment by Frank M
And how do the Jewish citizens in a Scandinavian country feel about that?
December 14th, 2007 at 5:41 pmHey Frank – what’s Commandment #4?
If those Commandments are so important, you should have them memorized by now.
#4, Frank – what is it?
December 14th, 2007 at 5:42 pm#4, Frank – what is it?
Comment by Little Freep Goofballs
Accodring to Frank, the fourth Commandment is: Thou shall not worship any God but George W Bush.
December 14th, 2007 at 5:44 pm#33 Comment by Frank M — December 14, 2007 @ 5:38 pm
SO GO LIVE THERE FRANK!
Why do you HATE America so, that you seek to pervert it?
.
December 14th, 2007 at 5:44 pmFrank, you were going to tell us how Jesus was ruthless, remember?
“You shall not bear false witness against your neighbour.”
Well Frank, want to have at it, explain yourself.
December 14th, 2007 at 5:45 pmHey Frank don’t those Scandinavian countries have that evil socialized medicine too or maybe it is a more Christian based system in which these principles you feel so strongly about are actually followed through on
December 14th, 2007 at 5:46 pmThe new Christian Taliban…next time around…every kid should attend a church,then every kid must carry arm and fight to defend the church…that’s how all starts.
That’s how religious fanatics start wars…History full of stories of wars ignited by religious zealousy.
That’s why the Founders of this nation said…we are not mixing religion and government ,and as a US Government representative..King is crossing the line in his obvious pandering.
Rep. King’s pay check comes from sweat of people….all people.
IRS does not distinguish among groups when it collects money regardless of religion…W-2 has no religious difference. meaning Mr. King own pay check does have percetage on non- Christians,and non- religious groups of people,and a good slice of the society.
So he needs to go and look at the laws under which this nation was founded, and try not to force others to believe in what he believes in.
People are free to believe the way they wish,without politicians telling them how to believe,and what to believe in.
This is America, and if Mr. King does not like it, let him then go and live, work in the Vatican..where it is all about religion and nothing but religion.
December 14th, 2007 at 5:46 pm#39: How should I know? Ask a Swede.
Comment by Frank M
Sir, it was your point. You made the point. As a government highlights one religion, it alienates all others. Does that seem fair?
Again, if you cannot stand your ground with a good debate, then go where everybody knows your name: http://www.american_taliban.com.
December 14th, 2007 at 5:47 pmI think they need to understand the tenets of the Christian faith and other faiths that have affected the history of this country.
In it’s context I don’t know that this is a horrible statement. That said, you have to give props for to conservatives for the deceptive framing, something they have gotten pretty good at. The debate about religion has nothing to do with faith, whatever that is. It’s about making sure the American Christian culture continues to dominate.
December 14th, 2007 at 5:47 pmI think that’s the main problem I have with most of the conservative hot button issues – that they are presented to the public in such a way so as to hide the real agenda. If they would just come out and say what it is they want and why, who knows, I might even agree with them sometimes.
Christianity. School kids attend compulsory classes teaching the basic tenets of Christianity. Do those countries look like muslim counties? No. They’re peaceful and have high standards of living.
Comment by Frank M — December 14, 2007 @ 5:38 pm
I thought you were against socialism?
December 14th, 2007 at 5:47 pmThe right wingers have treated the Constitution as if it is outdated and irrelevant for years now. They don’t give a rip about separation of church and state.
It is fairly condescending to say “If you teach American history, you cannot teach it without teaching Christianity†without recognizing that America is made up of (and always has been) Americans from all walks of life – namely, from LOTS of different religions. If we are going to teach Christianity in schools, then we must teach ALL religions in school. Then of course, when we have time to teach reading, writing, and arithmetic..?
A number of the Founders were Deists. They had a respect for the ethics of Jesus, but made a point of writing into the Constitution the need for a separation of church and state.
Like many right wing Conservative Republicans, their use of history to make their arguments tends towards rewriting history to suit their needs.
December 14th, 2007 at 5:49 pmWe don’t need to turn our government into a theocracy (though they are trying hard now). This is not what our country is about. We hopefully still have the ‘freedom’ to practice our faith in whatever form that takes, in all our diversity, and in private. That is the beauty of this great country.
Leviticus 19:19 Ye shall keep my statutes. Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind: thou shalt not sow thy field with mingled seed: neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woolen come upon thee.
Mingling is evidently against the law or Moses, Frank. Which might mean its sinful for you to even come among the libs. Your sheep and cows should go in separate pens and also be sure your tomatoes and string beans are well separated. And watch out for those cotton-wool blends. They are an abomination. Well at least they are when they come from TJMaxx.
December 14th, 2007 at 5:50 pmNo wonder why Christ hasn’t come back. He must be so ashamed.
December 14th, 2007 at 5:52 pmComment by tarazan — December 14, 2007 @ 5:46 pm
Your comment reminded me of my repug friend who teaches a 8-10-year-old Sunday School Class. For Halloween he bought some crap from Big Lots for them to play with; swords and assult rifles as toy. I really flipped when he said he pays the kids with play money to learn verses or having their parents sign off on reading assignments or nightly prayers. The money can be spent at the church store to buy genuine Jesus gear!
December 14th, 2007 at 5:55 pmRep. King is too dense to realize that he exemplifies the American Taliban in America. Teaching children christianity in public schools is different from teaching children the koran in a madrassa in what way? He loudly condemns the muslims, but he believes he is righteous.
December 14th, 2007 at 5:55 pmIgnorance like his is dumbfounding.
I can’t stand it anymore. The media is innundating us with the thoughts of idiots and cretins & destroyers of democracy.
December 14th, 2007 at 5:56 pmAside from the Constitutionality issue and the expressed concern the founders had with the government teaching religion, let’s examine this shall we.
By extension, for him to understand Christianity, he would have to study the tenets of the Jewish Faith. Did he do that? Does he know…let’s start easy…the Koshrut laws? How about even ONE Koshrut law aside from the pork one.
From every angle, this is shear stupidity and ignorance. Worst of all, it is an insult for everyone who has every stood up and fought for the principles of this country and the ideals for which it was founded.
We are one inch from declaring Christianity the national religion even though that is expressly forbidden by the bill of rights.
December 14th, 2007 at 5:56 pmIt might be a good idea for those who want the tenets of Christianity taught in school to first learn them, themselves. Christianity & Republicanism are mutually exclusive – one simply cannot be both. Christ was pretty liberal – preaching that people should care about and for the poor, and that the rich will have a really hard time getting into heaven. He was not against taxes.
It’d be interesting to know whose version of “Christianity” he thinks sould be taught….
December 14th, 2007 at 5:56 pmSo what are you trying to prove?
Comment by Frank M
That you have nothing helpful and valid to say. Game, set, and match!
December 14th, 2007 at 5:56 pmHey Frank who told your kids there was nothing after death? I think you might consider enrolling them in a comparative religions course. They might feel better after learning a thing or two about Hinduism
December 14th, 2007 at 5:58 pmKING: I think they should learn it. If you’re going to learn American history, you cannot teach it without teaching Christianity.
My, my. Anyone remember Christ brilliant strategy in Gettysburg?
December 14th, 2007 at 5:58 pmSeparation of church and state is the only reason the US has persisted as longas it has.
December 14th, 2007 at 5:58 pmIf Mr. King wants to teach his kids about Christianity…good for him…he is free to do that..but for him to tell me what to teach my kids…he is crossing the line.
December 14th, 2007 at 5:58 pm#49: I am against socialism. I mentioned that as an example that even in a socialist society, Christianity can have an enormous and positive effect on the well-being of the citizens.
Comment by Frank M — December 14, 2007 @ 5:56 pm
Exactly like that socialized medicine we talked about
December 14th, 2007 at 5:59 pmWhy has no one asked King about his reasons for NOT voting for his own bill, at the same time lambasting those who voted against it?
And why has the lapdog media not even bothered to ask the question?
H RES 847 11-Dec-2007 7:02 P
BILL TITLE: Recognizing the importance of Christmas and the Christian faith.
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2007/roll1143.xml
December 14th, 2007 at 6:01 pmChristianity can have an enormous and positive effect on the well-being of the citizens. Comment by Frank M — December 14, 2007 @ 5:56 pm
I didnt say it didnt. What you are forgetting is much of that well being of the citizens is because of high tax rates and free health-care. Something the right wing Christians in America are very much against.
December 14th, 2007 at 6:01 pmI am against socialism. I mentioned that as an example that even in a socialist society, Christianity can have an enormous and positive effect on the well-being of the citizens.
Comment by Frank M — December 14, 2007 @ 5:56 pm
No Frank what you do is cherry pick and misinterpret. You pick the part of the ten commandments and the constitution that fit your needs and then ignore the rest. No you’re picking the part of a socialist country that fits your needs but ignoring the other benefits it offers. You are more disingenuous that you are annoying. Still waiting to hear why Jesus was ruthless though.
December 14th, 2007 at 6:01 pmOk. I’m tired of this fruitless debate with certain cretins here. I’m going to Daily Kos and Raw Story for the rest of the evening.
Comment by Frank M
Fruitless because we all don’t just fall in line with your reasoning?
December 14th, 2007 at 6:03 pmDon’t go away mad, Frank – just go away.
he never “opposed” those two other votes; he merely voted ‘present’.
there’s a difference.
yes, he’s a wacko, but you need to have your logic straight.
second, he also never stated that every child needs to learn the tenets; he said “needs to understand the tenets.”
December 14th, 2007 at 6:06 pmAnd I am still waiting to hear why socialized medicine is so antiChristian values? Come on Frank don’t let us down. I don’t want to be left thinking that you are just another cyberloser nobody.
December 14th, 2007 at 6:06 pmI dont know many of these Christians in America today Frank, they are full of bias and clamor for war and put money above all else. Pat Robertson wants to bomb things Ann Coulter, a ‘Christian’ talks about poisoning judges. Falwell and Hagee pray for war and Armageddon.
I DONT KNOW THOSE CHRISTIANS!!
December 14th, 2007 at 6:07 pmChristianity can have an enormous and positive effect on the well-being of the citizens. Comment by Frank M
Yeah, I still remember those millions and millions of Bolivians working to death in the silver mines of Potosà being told by the Christian clerics that they would reach salvation.
December 14th, 2007 at 6:07 pmGood riddance, you god-smacked idiot. The Kossacks will hand you your ass just as readily as the posters here.
December 14th, 2007 at 6:08 pmAt one point, the city of Potosi was more populous than both London and Paris. All this wealth did come at some expense, however. The number of Black and Indian slaves, who died as a consequence of working in the mines during its Spanish colonial period from 1545 to 1825, is estimated to be over eight million.
December 14th, 2007 at 6:08 pmOk. I’m tired of this fruitless debate with certain cretins here. I’m going to Daily Kos and Raw Story for the rest of the evening.
Comment by Frank M — December 14, 2007 @ 6:01 pm
**sniff**
December 14th, 2007 at 6:09 pmSo what are you trying to prove?
Comment by Frank M — December 14, 2007 @ 5:54 pm
I *HAVE* proved that folks like you insist that others OBEY the Ten Commandments, and yet you have no clue what they are and what they mean.
For the record, here is the 4th Commandment:
“Remember the sabbath day, to keep it
holy.
Six days shalt thou labor, and do all
thy work:
But in the seventh day is the sabbath of
the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do
any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy
daughter, thy manservant, nor thy
maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy
stranger that is within thy gates:
For in six days the Lord made heaven
and earth, the sea, and all that in them is,
and rested on the seventh day: wherefore the
Lord blessed the sabbath day, and
hallowed it.”
Have you ever worked on the seventh day, Frank? A lot of people have – police officers, firefighters, doctors, nurses, Wal-Mart greeters. All of those folks disobeyed the 4th Commandment. No loopholes in the 4th Commandment.
But then again, maybe the Ten Commandments aren’t ‘The Tenets Of The Christian Faith’. I mean, they’re so – you know – Jewish.
December 14th, 2007 at 6:10 pmsecond, he also never stated that every child needs to learn the tenets; he said “needs to understand the tenets.â€
Comment by darladoon — December 14, 2007 @ 6:06 pm
Why?
December 14th, 2007 at 6:11 pmFrank M wrote “And it isn’t alarming and abusive to teach the kids that they’re descendants of monkeys and fish, no better than mere animals, and the “gospel†atheism (that there is no hope of life after death)? No wonder they snap and go on shooting sprees.”
December 14th, 2007 at 6:15 pmIt is never abusive to teach children the truth.
well, first he said they should “learn it”. “it” being christianity, in general. and that i can understand in the context of our evolution as a historical place.
then when asked about whether children should actually learn the tenets, he instead replied that the children “should understand”. there’s a difference between, on the one hand, merely understanding, and on the other hand, learning. the latter would imply more rigorous attention to the actual practices of that particular faith. the former implies a more cursory look at the actual practices, and not devoted attention to them.
all’s said and done, he’s still crazy.
there’s a distinct semantic difference there.
December 14th, 2007 at 6:18 pmAnd it isn’t alarming and abusive to teach the kids that they’re descendants of monkeys and fish
I don’t know if it’s alarming, but your post shows you are truly descending…
December 14th, 2007 at 6:22 pmZoo!!
:)
December 14th, 2007 at 6:26 pmthere’s a distinct semantic difference there.
Comment by darladoon — December 14, 2007 @ 6:18 pm
Why should they understand it?
December 14th, 2007 at 6:28 pmI have no problem with children learning the basic tenets of Christianity in school. As long as they also learn the basic tenets of Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, Judaism, and Confucianism, at least. I think that would produce a rather well-rounded student. I have concerns, however, about how well the average Alabama school teacher could teach Hinduism.
December 14th, 2007 at 6:29 pmJuan! :-)
December 14th, 2007 at 6:30 pmI think eventually the radical right wing will try and convince the country that it is ok to have sex with infants because of some obscure bible passage they warp to fit their agenda. Before you scoff,think of everything you once thought this country would never be capable of and now either embraces or makes light of.
December 14th, 2007 at 6:30 pmComment by Vanthomas — December 14, 2007 @ 6:30 pm
###
I have said before that Bush could fu(k a poodle on live TV, and 24% of the population would still support him.
December 14th, 2007 at 6:32 pm#89…..Agreed.
December 14th, 2007 at 6:33 pmFrank, do you know what the percentage of church attendance is in those European countries with a state church?
3% in Denmark
4% in Sweden
4% in Estonia
5% in Norway
Even the United Kingdom, the home of Anglicanism, has only a 24% church attendance.
Religion suffers when it’s tied to the state at least as much as the state suffers when it’s tied to religion. And none of the people who advocate the tying ever realize this.
December 14th, 2007 at 6:33 pmComment by Arn Gunnutes — December 14, 2007 @ 6:32 pm
####
Yeah, but could you picture the average school teacher in Alabama trying to explain Islam?
December 14th, 2007 at 6:34 pmComment by jayjaybear — December 14, 2007 @ 6:33 pm
####
But to be fair, most of the countries you mention are predominately Catholic, which is more of a hobby than a religion. I was raised with a Catholic family, I can count on 1 hand the number of times I went to mass when it wasn’t Christmas or Easter.
December 14th, 2007 at 6:36 pmThe American Taliban is at it again.
December 14th, 2007 at 6:37 pmI have no problem with children learning the basic tenets of Christianity in school. As long as they also learn the basic tenets of Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, Judaism, and Confucianism, at least. I think that would produce a rather well-rounded student. I have concerns, however, about how well the average Alabama school teacher could teach Hinduism.
Comment by Chris L — December 14, 2007 @ 6:29 pm
And don’t forget Scientology, after all if your kid wants to be an actor, it couldn’t hurt. Oh and Kabbalah, just in case Christ comes back and considers himself a Jew, again or still.
December 14th, 2007 at 6:38 pmI have said before that Bush could fu(k a poodle on live TV, and 24% of the population would still support him.
Comment by Chris L — December 14, 2007 @ 6:32 pm
What does Tony Blair have to do with this? ;)
December 14th, 2007 at 6:39 pmDateline 2008: Republican funded scientists have discovered that having sex with Arab children before the age of 4 seriously decreases the chances of them becoming Islamofascists later in life. Upon hearing this report President George W. Bush has proclaimed Pedophilia the new national pastime. Gag.
December 14th, 2007 at 6:39 pmI have said before that Bush could fu(k a poodle on live TV, and 24% of the population would still support him.
Comment by Chris L — December 14, 2007 @ 6:32 pm
Bush and Blair were a little more discreet than that.
December 14th, 2007 at 6:39 pmOnce they force their christofascism on my kid are they going to make her walk around with a gun every day?
December 14th, 2007 at 6:41 pmI think all American students should be exposed to what the Founders of our country thought about Christianity. Let’s start with the “Father of the Constitution,” James Madison:
“During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution.”
Or how about this little nugget from Madison:
“Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise.” April 1, 1774
December 14th, 2007 at 6:44 pmThe perfect Christmas ornament for Rep. King:
http://www.misspoppy.com/catalog/xcart/customer/product.php?productid=16346
Don’t let Darryll see this or his head will explode.
December 14th, 2007 at 6:48 pmI think it would be helpful for students to learn about the Treaty of Tripoli, passed in the years following the ratification of the constitution by unanimous vote in the Senate with no dissent. Here’s a line from that treaty:
“The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.” Treaty of Tripoly, article 11
December 14th, 2007 at 6:50 pmOK, goddamit, I demand the tenets of my religion, Cromism, be taught as well.
As Conan describes Crom, he is a gloomy god who breathes into each person at the time of their birth the strength and will to slay their enemies, then he’s done with you.
Call on him if you dare, he cares not for the mewling of petitioners for his favors.
Teach That.
December 14th, 2007 at 6:53 pmComment by Chris L — December 14, 2007 @ 6:48 pm
OMFG, Diet Pepsi right up the nose.
Gross, but totally fantastic!
December 14th, 2007 at 6:55 pmTeach That.
Comment by RUCerious — December 14, 2007 @ 6:53 pm
###
During my 8 years in the Army I had “Jedi Knight” listed as my religion on my dog tags. A chaplain in Iraq got pretty pissed at me about that.
December 14th, 2007 at 6:56 pmLove it Chris!
December 14th, 2007 at 6:57 pmOMFG, Diet Pepsi right up the nose.
Gross, but totally fantastic!
Comment by Zooey — December 14, 2007 @ 6:55 pm
####
Thank you – sorry about the Pepsi
The guy that started the site intended it for satire, but there have been more than a few right-wingers that have ordered from him not realizing it was a joke.
December 14th, 2007 at 6:58 pmInteresting, Chris, I converted to Buddhism during my year in Nam, and was dumbfounded to discover the entire I corps didn’t have one Buddhist chaplain..(not that we actually needed one…)
December 14th, 2007 at 6:58 pmWell, it’s the end of the day for me. Have fun everyone – give ‘em hell Zoo! I’m going home.
December 14th, 2007 at 7:00 pmNight Chris, I’m on my way as well.
December 14th, 2007 at 7:01 pmThe guy that started the site intended it for satire, but there have been more than a few right-wingers that have ordered from him not realizing it was a joke.
Comment by Chris L — December 14, 2007 @ 6:58 pm
That’s just too hilarious, Chris. I love the “Lock & Load Jesus” mousepad.
You think my fundie sister would appreciate it? ;)
December 14th, 2007 at 7:01 pmGoodnight, RUC. It’s music night at TheZoo!
December 14th, 2007 at 7:03 pmMaybe he needs to put his own house in order first and get the log out of his own eye.
December 14th, 2007 at 7:07 pmMy, my. I touched a nerve. Eeeew.
My parents, thankfully, didn’t bring up the whole “after-life” thing until I was 10 or so. But, I grew up in the country with lots of animals. I learned, early on, that everything dies. I also learned that, if I payed attention to the world around me, I would live a long time and have fun doing it.
Aside from plain bad luck most people do pretty well with a similar outlook. By intentionally sheltering me from the teachings of any particular church, until I was old enough to make rational judgments, strikes me as a wonderful gift. And I’ve never had a moments doubt about my worth to those who have worth to me.
I’m quite content with my status as a unique being, one of billions, on a shrinking planet. It’s not always comforting but, it’s real. I don’t understand how a belief in an everlasting perfect life, or it’s opposite, did any person the slightest good. It’s like feeding the bears at Yellowstone.
Eventually, they figure out the marshmallows are gone. If it’s a “nice” bear, it goes and begs from someone else. If it’s a “mean” bear, it bites your face off.
The whole concept of life-everlasting has driven more people mad than lead, mercury, and syphilis combined. And it’s worst victims have a severe penchant for placing a low value on the mortal existence of others. I can’t get behind the “killing the body to save the soul” thing. I think children are better off without it and our schools have no right to take a position.
Not to mention the self-aggrandizing “Worship me or your whole family suffers forever” crud. Name one way a young child benefits from that kind of message.
December 14th, 2007 at 7:10 pmWhat every child will REALLY need to learn, is how to use a gun, so that they can effectively participate in the inevitable civil war that will happen if this BS keeps up.
December 14th, 2007 at 7:15 pmAnd what’s going to happen when people do not believe in the “approved’ religion or attend the “approved” church?
December 14th, 2007 at 7:18 pmThe Taliban and other extreme pseudo-religions deal very harshly with the non-believers.
Methinks King and his followers need to rethink what is proposed/demanded.
Don’t let Darryll see this or his head will explode.
Comment by Chris L — December 14, 2007 @ 6:48 pm
And why, exactly, is Daryll’s head exploding a bad thing? Maybe we should take a vote.
December 14th, 2007 at 7:20 pmChris L, that was absolutely and ridiculously funny. Thanks.
December 14th, 2007 at 7:23 pmzooey,
knowledge of any religion is significant, as all religions and religious practices intersect with other forms of knowledge and practice. religion overlaps with, and even produces, culture. and a great many societies have developed around religious beliefs and practices.
therefore, knowledge of religion is essential to the understanding of our world.
to “understand” christianity does not necessarily mean to “adhere” to its practices and principles.
having said that, i think knowledge of as many different religions and belief systems is important.
in any case, alan colmes was just trying to elicit something controversial from the senator……that’s what fox news does.
December 14th, 2007 at 7:35 pmsure, teaching Christianity in school would be good, it should be a big help toward legalizing meth and male prostitution.
http://www.abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=2626067&page=1
December 14th, 2007 at 7:40 pm.
How about a resolution promoting logic, reason, and critical thinking.
You know, since atheism, humanism, and secularism are not religions.
I’d like to see which congress person votes against logic, reason, and
critical thinking.
“There’s nothing wrong with teaching kids the Ten Commandments.”
Comment by Frank M — December 14, 2007 @ 5:23 pm
Nothing, if you’re in your church.
December 14th, 2007 at 8:04 pmI’m sorry if it offends but, religion has no place in public schools with the possible exception of exploring their sociological significance at the secondary level. If an elementary school teacher took it upon them self to teach my kid about God, Jesus, The Ten Commandments, or the FSM, they would be finished. And, Mr. King’s position is illegal and unconstitutional.
December 14th, 2007 at 8:06 pmLessee–
Principles and tenets of xtianity:
Render unto Ceaser–stop complaining about your taxes.
Blessed are the peacemakers (not the warmongers).
You who are without sin can point the finger at everyone else; otherwise drop your sorry stones and go home with the rest of the mob.
It’s tougher for a camel (not the cigarettes either) to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.
Love your enemy (you know, the evil-doers) as you love yourself.
Resist not evil.
Don’t take the Bible so gosh darn literally; if your horse is drowning on the Sabbath, forget the 4th Commandment and pull him out of the drink.
I haven’t met many who could walk the walk. But 2000 years of history have allowed us to know this by the fruit of Christianity–it’s been taken over by the politicians and used as a rationale for no end of human bloodshed and torture. They say Jesus wept; well, it’s certainly easy to see why the renegade rabbi of uncertain birth from Nazereth asked that the burden be lifted from his shoulders.
December 14th, 2007 at 8:28 pmRep. King: ‘Every Child’ In American Schools Needs To Learn ‘The Tenets Of The Christian Faith’
Prez. Bush: But they don’t need healthcare.
Your comment reminded me of my repug friend who teaches a 8-10-year-old Sunday School Class. For Halloween he bought some crap from Big Lots for them to play with; swords and assult rifles as toy. I really flipped when he said he pays the kids with play money to learn verses or having their parents sign off on reading assignments or nightly prayers. The money can be spent at the church store to buy genuine Jesus gear!
Comment by Saint Augustine — December 14, 2007 @ 5:55 pm
Your one reminds me of the passage about the money changers at the temple. Got a good whip to lash those infidels?
December 14th, 2007 at 8:33 pmOne, the Founding Fathers were Diests, not Christians.
Two, I enjoy telling Fundamentalists, when the rant about how I can’t have the 10 Commandments posted in my public school classroom, that I can, right next to the Witch’s Creed, the tenants of Buddah, Tao, etc.
December 14th, 2007 at 9:24 pmPainful, repeated experience has taught that it does no good to argue w/ idiots… soooooo… let’s cut to the capper….
HEY, KING…. STFU!!!!!!
December 14th, 2007 at 9:25 pmRELIGION = MIND CONTROL
December 14th, 2007 at 9:36 pmAs long as there’s a module on Tarot card reading, they can teach the rosary too.
December 14th, 2007 at 9:44 pmounds like a good idea to show who the HYPOCRITES are…
Comment by Arn Gunnutes — December 14, 2007 @ 9:47 pm
I’d like some proof that both King and Frank M can count to ten first, even if they have to take their shoes off.
December 14th, 2007 at 10:19 pm“in any case, alan colmes was just trying to elicit something controversial from the senator……that’s what fox news does.”
Um, yeah, that is what Fox News does. However, Colmes is the “house libby”. He is the guy that says “yes, massa”. He is the foil, the straight man. He is the guy that is there to be laughed at. And he is damn good at it. He is beloved by Republicans because he is a “liberal” they can tee off on and not get blasted back. If only you knew how many conservatives say that Alan Colmes is their favorite liberal. The guy buys Vaseline by the gallon.
December 14th, 2007 at 10:40 pmoh man, I just watched the trailer for Horton hears a Who – the 24%’ers are gonna absolutely loathe this movie. Can’t wait for the uproar….Busloads of church goer’s staging protests outside of theaters everywhere. “a person’s a person, no matter how small’ was one of the quotes.
December 14th, 2007 at 11:17 pmAs long as we also teach them about the teachings of Shakamuni, let them learn about Shiva, and find out more about Jainism, read the story of Abraham from the Koran and find out about Wakan-Tanka from the Lakota and Dakota peoples.
And while we are teaching them about the Lakota and Dakota peoples and other Native Americans, we can teach the about the values these people had, and taught to their children, long before the “white man” set foot on this continent and STOLE their land, values like; respect for the wisdom of their elders, their concept of family responsibilities extending beyond the nuclear family to embrace a whole village, their respect for the environment, their willingness to share – all of these values persist within their own culture even though they have been under unremitting pressure to abandon them.
In his latest book, American Fascists: The Christian Right and the War on America, Chris Hedges elucidates the fact that today’s Right Wing of the American Evangelical movement shares much in common with well-known totalitarian regimes through out history.
This push for dominionism and for a theocracy based on Christianity has some interesting parallels with the early ideology of the National Socialists in Germany, namely:
* rampant nationalism
* intolerance for anyone who does not agree with their ideology
* desire for apocalyptic bloodshed
* attack on open dialogue and progressive thinking
* laws to protect society from a perceived danger
* disenfranchisement
* demonization of entire groups of citizens
* disinformation of facts
* indoctrination of young people
Better yet, these Neo-fascists, like their forerunners, will tell us that anyone who does not believe as they do, are evil incarnate, a sub-human, and will be wiped off the face of the earth by the righteous believers. There is no room in the world in the Christian Right for discourse, intellectual research, or disagreement.
All Americans, regardless of religious beliefs need to heed this wake up call. A wake up call that is, telling us the clear and present danger to our democracy is not from a foreign enemy, radical clerics, or undocumented workers. It is from within our own borders. It is from the people who would have you lose your freedom for the sake of salvation and safety.
We need to maintain the clear wall of separation between church and state as our Founding Fathers designed for us. Call or write to your representative and tell them you will work for their defeat the next time they are up for re-election if they continue to support the ideas of King and his kind.
December 14th, 2007 at 11:47 pmFor those who may be interested:
Eurobarometer Poll 2005
Belief in a God
Norway 32%
December 15th, 2007 at 12:15 amDenmark 31%
Sweden 23%
Yes, by all means let’s teach our children about a god that forbids A&E knowledge of modesty — the only knowledge that said god possessed — that he proclaimed twas evil — or good but no matter, for modesty was forbade. Indeed, god demanded A&E maintain their nudity in Eden’s midst — like naked animals that have no shame. And least we forget, for god to plant the tree of knowledge of good and evil modesty, he would first need to create said knowledge of modesty in order tempt and titillate A&E.
— Of course, our Lord twas devoid of prescience whilst obsessed with homosexuality and had no idea that Satan wast cajoling Eve, a poor ignorant piece of man’s rib to eat from the tree of knowledge of good — or evil modesty. — But dare I mention the fact that our Lord only forbids Adam the fruits of modesty in the first place? For god in his extremely limited wisdom and overwhelming ignorance forgot to threaten Eve with death should she become ashamed of her nudity whilst ingesting the fruits of modesty from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. But Eve was blamed nevertheless for eating said knowledge of modesty since god was obligated, monopolized, and bound to do as man bid after men created Yahweh in Adam’s image.
Then again — men also demanded that god deny Adam a woman — for reasons I know not why. Preferring god bring forth animals without names for Adam to seek his one and true “help meet, igniting loins, and passions aflame. But men (finally) learned (I think) that bestiality twas born to would fail and that Adam needed a woman to prevail — and populate the Garden of Eden — by fornicating incestuously with their children.
Now isn’t that a nice story to tell our children rather than teach sex education? — But if it’s a god ya want our kids to learn about — then tell them to worship women. For life on earth tis female based — and she has owned proprietary rights since the very beginning when female species evolved before getting around to creating males — that in turn would lead to men. — And if men would stop wasting their time resenting women for giving them life — maybe, just maybe she’ll give him 50% credit — the next time she sees a pregnant man…
Until then, remember the old adage about the chicken or the egg coming first — the entire point being was that they were both females. Awomen!
December 15th, 2007 at 1:35 amYeah, but could you picture the average school teacher in Alabama trying to explain Islam?
Comment by Chris L — December 14, 2007 @ 6:34 pm
But to be fair, most of the countries you mention are predominately Catholic, which is more of a hobby than a religion. I was raised with a Catholic family, I can count on 1 hand the number of times I went to mass when it wasn’t Christmas or Easter.
Comment by Chris L — December 14, 2007 @ 6:36 pm
Well, Chris, THIS resident of Alabama at least is more intelligent than you appear to be. The countries that jayjaybear listed (Estonia, Sweden, Denmark, Norway, and the UK) are NOT “predominantly Catholic”. NOT A SINGLE ONE, you arrogant, condescending piece of shite. Denmark, Norway and Sweden are LUTHERAN, and Estonia, to the best of my knowledge, doesn’t have a state church (the population is. per the CIA factbook, 13.6% Lutheran, 12.8% Orthodox, 1.4% other Christian, 34.1% unaffiliated, 32% other and unspecified, 6.1% NONE–that information comes from a 2000 census; I doubt, however, that things have changed that drastically in just 7 years).
I am putting you on notice at this point, though, that if I read another piece of unwarranted slander against my home state*, I WILL be reporting you as abusive. I’m not overly fond of the large number of morons sitting in the State Legislature and Governor’s Mansion, nor am I overly happy with our RepubliCON state court justices, but I won’t accept some outsider–and based on your comments, you don’t seem to be from Alabama–acting so uppity about things he obviously doesn’t know. (I, however, as a resident of the State, do have the right to criticize my state officials as I see fit.)
*Note that while this was primarily addressed to Chris L, I reserve the right to flag as abusive ANY poster who resorts to stereotypes and demeans Alabama.
December 15th, 2007 at 2:15 amBrilliant plan! . . . only one hitch . . . which Christian religion’s tenets does King think should receive the official sanction?
Evangelicals speak in tongues and believe that the earth was created in one day . . . is a language class in order . . . Catholics believe that life begins at conception (or maybe even before), hate birth control, believe in immaculate conception . . . Methodists believe in Christ, but also in science, i.e., evolution . . . that the earth was populated with dinasaurs long before mankind ever showed up, think about theology for yourself and the golden rule . . . Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t believe in celebrating any holidays or fighting any wars . . . Not entirely up to speed on the Mormons, but their founder found religion in a seeking stone in a hat.
All good, but just which would King have our young ‘uns study?
December 15th, 2007 at 3:39 amI can think of many a teen age girl who wishes the immaculate conception theory would fly . . . many women who were raped or for medical reasons had abortions, and women who have stayed in abusive relationships because divorce is a sin.
King, what do we teach our damned? . . . appears most of the damned are either women or gay.
December 15th, 2007 at 3:48 amKing, no doubt in your Talibani mind, such women and gays should be offered the opportunity to redeem themselves . . . (ridiculous, redemption is only necessary on the part of their abusers) that you, of all people, would offer women, children and homosexuals foregiveness is absurd . . . you, a mere politicised human offering to grant foregiveness . . . Isn’t that a job God reserved to himself? Surely, God has blessed the Golden Rule, but the bible also reserved absolution to God (Pope, get your pedophile priests in order and get over yourself . . . worship a saint or two, God always likes it when you worship false idols) . . . As you flaunt your Christianity for political treasure, you must ignore that Jesus pre-empted your grudging gift to such unfortunates when Christ died on the cross.
Denial is a luxury only hypocrites afford and weild as a weapon to threaten the rest of us with crucifiction.
In the name of all that is holy, shouldn’t you change your name? King? Well, like you and dub’ya, Satan also set his sights on ruling heaven and earth.
December 15th, 2007 at 4:15 amI thought about leaving a comment but this is so stupid it doesn’t deserve one.
December 15th, 2007 at 4:40 amOr perhaps you’re so stupid you couldn’t think one.
Donkeys are smarter.
December 15th, 2007 at 6:56 amTink, Tink . . . donmyers got nothin’.
All that no child left behind funding left behind donmyers.
December 15th, 2007 at 6:59 amIn the interest of full disclosure, I am a Christian and a conservative. I don’t want government schools teaching my kids anything about the ten commandments.
First, as incompetent as they are, chances are they would screw it up.
Second, it’s not the job of the gov schools to teach kids that sort of thing in the classroom. That should be taught at home.
I will not have to worry about this though… I love my kids too much to send them to the disaster that is a government education.
And before you nutty libs get all high and mighty on me, I am not wealthy. Not by a long shot. I grew up poor on a farm. I afford private school for my kids by working hard, saving, having a cheap truck, not having a cell phone, shopping at Wal Mart, not buying a big, flat screen TV, not buying or playing video games, staying healthy, not giving my kids everything they ask for, and just simply being responsible on a lower middle class income.
Oh, one more thing… I pay for health insurance for my whole family, too. GASP! I don’t expect you nutty libs to understand, though.
Individual responsibility… what a concept!
December 15th, 2007 at 7:28 amStubain… Even though I don’t agree with with all tenets of conservatism, I am a huge believer in fiscal conservatism. I have always saved money and have always lived within my means–I applaud anyone who does, and I encourage everyone to do so. I grew up lower middle class and payed my own way through college by virtue of loans, scholarships and 5/dollar ramen noodle packs. Once I started working, I made sure I sent the loan people more than the minimum every month until the debt was erased. That said, to this day I never buy anything (except my apartment!) that I can’t pay for outright. I use credit cards, but they are paid off the minute the charges hit my account. You pay for your family’s health insurance, which is great–I do too–but I know my insurance policy will never be enough if my wife or I were to really get sick for a long period. That is the secret to affordable healthcare in this country–you said it yourself–try to stay healthy. I hope the government and other citizens of the country wouldn’t throw us out in the street if one of us did get a catastrophic illness–that is the security government is supposed to provide. Certainly one where “Christian tenets” are at it’s core. I don’t know where you live that your impression of public schools is so low. In some states and counties its great, and in others deplorable. You can usually tell something about the quality of the schools by looking at the property tax rates. If you are paying high relative taxes for your state and the schools still stink, I would try another district. I know moving isn’t always an option, which I’m sure is why you send your kids to private school. I just don’t believe that all the school districts in your city can be as horrible as you say. But the bottom line is, in a society such as ours there are certain costs that are borne by the masses–and education is one. I have no kids yet, but have been subsidizing others’ kids–I don’t begrudge it, but rather see it as a societal good worth paying for. An uneducated country isn’t going to be a competitive country.
December 15th, 2007 at 8:45 amNo wonder they snap and go on shooting sprees.
Comment by Frank M — December 14, 2007 @ 5:34 pm
Err, examples? Oh, wait, I am asking for a religious guy to actually give evidence of something. Gee why should we base our assertions on evidence, when all we need to do is have faith that we are right.
Oh, and BTB: Self identifying Atheists in the prison population: 156, which makes them about 0.209% of the prison population.
Atheist’s are about 13 to 17 percent of the US population.
So stick that in your pipe and smoke it.
December 15th, 2007 at 10:24 amAnd note, that criticism about never having to come up with any evidence was aimed squarely at Frank, not all Christians.
Bert
Frankly, you guys seem to hate Christianity far more then any of the rest of us. After all, you have turned it into the religion of torture, greed, and self-righteousness, when Jesus actually preached against you guys quite successfully. He used the term “Hypocrites” if I remember correctly.
December 15th, 2007 at 10:27 amBERT CONVY
Nope. They were the Republicans.
They were distinctly in favour of strict adherence to religious doctrine, right to the point where not adhering meant the death penalty.
Their political style was dedicated to using their religion to control the masses, and when that failed, resorting to bribery. This is of course, mirrored in today’s Republican tax cuts.
While Jesus preached against gathering overmuch in the way of riches, the Pharasees were championing the free market in their temples.
While Jesus preached that one should keep one’s religion reasonably private, the Pharisees were chanting their religion from the sides of the streets.
Finally, while Jesus acted to stop a mob stoning a woman to death, and commonly preached peace and tolerance, the Pharisees sentenced Jesus to be nailed killed via a fairly ghastly means of torture.
Also:
Democrats aren’t upset with Merry Christmas. There was never a political campaign against the phrase, it was simply a decision made by your retailers all on their own. Of course, that you conservatives brown your underwear at the thought that someone might wish you to have a good time during the holiday season in general, as opposed to just one day of it, does strike us as being rather odd and a sad reflection on the strength of your beliefs.
December 15th, 2007 at 11:58 amBert, you may wish to reconsider your statement, or provide some proof to back up your claim. Here are s few facts you may have overlooked:
The Pharisees primarily came from middle-class families and were zealous for the Mosaic law, the Sadducees were generally wealthy members of the Jewish aristocracy who had embraced hellenism.
After Israel’s monarchical form of government had become a thing of the past; in its place the Jews created a community which was half State, half Church. A growing sense of superiority to the heathen and idolatrous nations among whom their lot was cast came to be one of their main characteristics.
Such was the state of things in the third century when the newly introduced Hellenism threatened Judaism with destruction. The more zealous among the Jews drew apart calling themselves Chasidim or “pious ones”, i.e., they dedicated themselves to the realization of the ideas inculcated by Esdras, the holy priest and doctor of the law. In the violent conditions incidental to the Machabean wars these “pious men”, sometimes called the Jewish Puritans, became a distinct class.
Though standing for the spiritualizing tendency, Pharisaism developed a proud and arrogant orthodoxy and an exaggerated formalism, which insisted on ceremonial details at the expense of the more important precepts of the Law (Matthew 23:23-28).
The importance attached to descent from Abraham (Matthew 3:9) obscured the deeper spiritual issues and created a narrow, exclusive nationalism incapable of understanding a universal Church destined to include Gentile as well as Jew.
It was only through the revelation received on the road to Damascus, that Paul (Saul the Pharisee) was enabled to comprehend a church where all are equally the “seed of Abraham”, all “one in Christ Jesus” (Galatians 3:28-9).
The lesson from the Pharisees’ example is that self-righteousness is not righteousness, and that God’s true people are to live according to all of God’s Word, not just certain parts that are most convenient or to one’s own liking.
This description of them sounds more like the radical right, not people who are progressive in their thinking, like Jesus was.
I have many non-Christian friends who act more like Christians than the Christians I know, perhaps this is why Gandhi said, “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.â€
Merry Christmas, Seasons Greetings, Happy Holidays and I hope you enjoy good health and great fortune in 2008.
Peace,
Citizen of Earth
December 15th, 2007 at 12:01 pmWell, BERT
Happy holidays, and I hope you and yours have a great time.
December 15th, 2007 at 12:21 pmBERT CONVY
Oh, and as a gift, I give you an effective reason why you should not vote Hillary (Okay, its Gamespot, which recently fired an editor for giving a high budget game a negative review, but anyway…)
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6183168.html
December 15th, 2007 at 12:24 pmDid anyone even know this was happening? Unless you dig for this crap, you may never know what these clowns are doing. So, we’re spending taxpayer dollars promoting religion and making it a law? You have got to be kidding me. CAN SOMEONE SPELL IT OUT FOR THEM: IT IS COMPLETELY UNCONSTITUTIONAL.
We have a diverse population. Not everyone thinks Christianity. Give me a break. We fought for our freedom from England so we could make our own choices, in freedom, and still have representation in our government. This Congress cannot pass one piece of meaningful legislation that will help improve people’s lives, but they can spend their time advancing the agenda of the religious right. They should all be targeted for removal from office in the next election. They are wasting OUR time and OUR money.
Religion is personal. Preaching belongs in the pulpit, not on the floors of Congress. On the floors of Congress, they should be working toward providing health care for all citizens, stopping the erosion of our civil rights, what we are going to do about our illegal, unsuccessful war in Iraq, how we are going to help the abandoned victims of Hurricane Katrina…you know, the things that really mean something to people.
This country has gone to hell under the Bush administration. This is just one example. Both he and Dick Cheney should be removed from office. They make Tricky Dick look pretty good.
December 15th, 2007 at 12:47 pmMy feelings exactly, THROW ALL THE RASCALS OUT!. It is time we, the voters send a message, do your job or get out. However, we have to realize that this is part of a greater malaise in our government, CAREER POLITICIANS.
This is why I am in favor of TERM LIMITS for ALL ELECTED OFFICIALS. From the local level to the federal level. At the federal level we have nothing but a group of dysfunctional individuals, making our government dysfunctional.
I believe at the federal level, we should limit our Senators to no more than two terms (2×6=12) or twelve years. Then after one term (six years out of office), they can be drafted to run again by their constituents, but only for two terms. Drafting would be by a vote of registered voters and would need to have at least a majority of the registered voters in favor of drafting.
Members of the House of Representatives, can hold office for no more than three terms or six years before they are required to step down for at least two terms (four years) then like the Senators, they can be drafted again by their constituents, but again for no more that three terms.
We also need to prohibit corporate contributions, relying on individual contributions only and limit campaign spending to a reasonable dollar amount by all office seekers.
Also, we need to eliminate the Electoral College, in todays age of instant communications and online voting, we should rely only on the popular vote to elect our President. The EC is a relic of the early days of our country, when not even the telegraph existed and messages were hand carried on horseback or by coach. It simply is not needed anymore.
Finally, we need to remove tax exempt status from any religious organization that involves itself, in any way, shape or form, with politics in any fashion. Religious organizations should minister to the people, not work to elect politicians.
If we do nothing, I promise you, we will end up as a theocracy.
December 15th, 2007 at 1:22 pmSorry, that was quote from post number 157 NOT 150.
December 15th, 2007 at 1:23 pmI really mean 156. Need my lunch. C-ya.
December 15th, 2007 at 1:24 pmWhy has no one asked King about his reasons for NOT voting for his own bill, at the same time lambasting those who voted against it?
And why has the lapdog media not even bothered to ask the question?
H RES 847 11-Dec-2007 7:02 P
BILL TITLE: Recognizing the importance of Christmas and the Christian faith.
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2007/roll1143.xml
December 15th, 2007 at 1:39 pmI have a friend in Iowa who tells me with confidence that Mr. King will not pass muster in the next elections, so enjoy him while you’ve got him. After next fall, there won’t be many clown-shaped R punching bags left.
December 15th, 2007 at 2:24 pmCurmudgeon,
Answer to first question, why kind did not vote for his own bill then lambasted the folks who voted against it: two words, “arrogance and ignorance”. The people like King are not capable of anything other than these two attributes. The qualities of a Christian, like, compassion, honesty, integrity, are foreign to them. He is looking to set himself up as better than others, he is not interested in helping others. That is why he and the people like him are today’s Pharisees and Sadducees.
Second question, why has the lapdog media not bothered to ask, that is simple as well, the MSM is not about investigative journalism anymore. They are talking heads, spouting opinion, most of it based on lies, myths and misconceptions. Their mission is to propagate the notion that you and I and the rest of the American citizenry are just too dumb to know anything and help spread the propaganda of their masters, the elite who own 80% of the wealth. They do this in hopes to gain some of that wealth. I thought at one time there were two exceptions to this rule, but I have learned that even they have their own agenda.
Bottom line, don’t expect any changes anytime soon, not until we, the people, go to the voting booths in record numbers and throw the rascals out of office and then withhold support of the MSM by boycotting their advertisers.
There are ways to get this dog to hunt, but it takes more than just the few people who post here on TP to accomplish it.
December 15th, 2007 at 2:34 pmI hope after next fall there won’t be any clowns around, I don’t care if they are a Democant or Rethuglican. We need the largest turnout of voters in our history to throw all these RASCALS out of town. I am sick of all of them. It is time for new LEADERSHIP, the key word is LEADER. We need people who are not beholding to the corporate special interest, we need people who will listen to the voters and act accordingly.
December 15th, 2007 at 2:48 pmCitizen_of_Earth
Say rather “Qualities of a good person.”
There is nothing peculiarly Christian about compassion, honesty or integrity.
But otherwise, well put.
December 15th, 2007 at 2:49 pmSince it was brought up in this thread, and since I have already made a mention of it myself, I want to take a moment to expand on the topic of TERM LIMITS.
Does everyone remember the Republican Contract with America from the 1990’s?
Well, no part of that contract generated more opposition from within the GOP than the notion of Term Limits. Of course the Democants were also against it.
From a report by Doug Bandow, (former Special Assistant to President Reagan and a senior fellow at the Cato Institute) published in 1995,
He goes on to say:
Today, our leaders in Washington D.C. is nothing but a group of dysfunctional individuals, making our government dysfunctional.
How to proceeded?
I believe at the federal level, we should limit our Senators to no more than two terms (2×6=12) or twelve years. Then after one term (six years out of office), they can be drafted to run again by their constituents, but only for two terms. Drafting would be by a vote of registered voters and would need to have at least a majority of the registered voters in favor of drafting.
Members of the House of Representatives, can hold office for no more than three terms or six years before they are required to step down for at least two terms (four years) then like the Senators, they can be drafted again by their constituents, but again for no more that three terms.
We also need to prohibit corporate contributions, relying on individual contributions only and limit campaign spending to a reasonable dollar amount by all office seekers.
Also, we need to eliminate the Electoral College, in todays age of instant communications and online voting, we should rely only on the popular vote to elect our President. The EC is a relic of the early days of our country, when not even the telegraph existed and messages were hand carried on horseback or by coach. It simply is not needed anymore.
Finally, we need to remove tax exempt status from any religious organization that involves itself, in any way, shape or form, with politics in any fashion. Religious organizations should minister to the people, not work to elect politicians.
If we do nothing, I promise you, we will end up as a theocracy.
December 15th, 2007 at 3:08 pmSuggested question for the next Presidential “debate” –
Please explain your understanding of the following Biblical passage, how you’ve applied it in your own life, and how you would intend to practice this guidance in your administration, should you win?
Isaiah 10:1-2
1 Woe to those who make unjust laws,
to those who issue oppressive decrees,
2 to deprive the poor of their rights
December 15th, 2007 at 3:24 pmand withhold justice from the oppressed of my people,
making widows their prey
and robbing the fatherless.
Suggested questoin for the next Presidential “debate” — Option #2
Please explain your understanding of the following Biblical passage, how you’ve applied it in your own life, and how you would intend to practice this guidance in your administration, should you win?
Matthew 25: 31-46 31″When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
December 15th, 2007 at 3:27 pm34″Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
37″Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40″The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.’
41″Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44″They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45″He will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
46″Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
Suggested question for the next Presidential “debate†— Option #3
This would be a two-part question, for extra credit. The first verse would be prefaced by the question, “Have you ever sinned?” If the candidate says “No”, then ask him/her to explain the meaning of Romans 3:23.
Romans 3:23 — 23 For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. — ESV
If the candidate persists with a “no” answer, this should make headlines. If they reply “yes”, then ask them if they’ve removed the offending body part, and if not, why not? And if they have had offending body parts removed, please identify which ones?
Matthew 5:27-30 — 27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell. — ESV
December 15th, 2007 at 3:37 pmStop embracing stupid concepts that human beings are nothing more than sinners. THE SINS OF A&E AMOUNTED TO MODESTY fer crying out loud! — A libidinous god from Genesis demanded A&E maintain their nudity — like naked animals to populate the Garden of Eden by fornicating incestuously with their children. The only knowledge that god possessed that he deemed an evil sin WAS MODESTY (aka naked shame). Biblical pornography shouldn’t be allowed anywhere near children! Lucky for A&E that they didn’t have kids whist they lived in Eden for their perverted god to corrupt.
December 16th, 2007 at 3:50 amSounds good. How ’bout this one: THOU SHALT NOT KILL.
December 16th, 2007 at 4:29 pm