Comments on: Bali negotiators reach agreement after U.S. ‘U-turn.’ http://thinkprogress.org/2007/12/15/bali-negotiators-reach-agreement-after-us-u-turn/ Fri, 27 Nov 2009 04:50:46 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: Bruce Gorton http://thinkprogress.org/2007/12/15/bali-negotiators-reach-agreement-after-us-u-turn/comment-page-1/#comment-4194308 Bruce Gorton Sun, 16 Dec 2007 10:33:03 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/12/15/bali-negotiators-reach-agreement-after-us-u-turn/#comment-4194308 Leopold I wouldn't exactly call engineers uneducated, nor people who hold accounting degrees. Leopold

I wouldn’t exactly call engineers uneducated, nor people who hold accounting degrees.

]]> By: Lefty Patriot http://thinkprogress.org/2007/12/15/bali-negotiators-reach-agreement-after-us-u-turn/comment-page-1/#comment-4194207 Lefty Patriot Sun, 16 Dec 2007 03:51:57 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/12/15/bali-negotiators-reach-agreement-after-us-u-turn/#comment-4194207 But at the top levels of education and research, where the scientists are, we’re still at the top. It’s our politicians, elected by the uneducated masses (high school graduates, businessmen, engineers), who suck. Comment by leopold — December 15, 2007 @ 10:44 pm Doesn't negate the fact that our best scientists are leaving for countries that are less fundamentally religiously fanatic than ours. But at the top levels of education and research, where the scientists are, we’re still at the top. It’s our politicians, elected by the uneducated masses (high school graduates, businessmen, engineers), who suck.

Comment by leopold — December 15, 2007 @ 10:44 pm

Doesn’t negate the fact that our best scientists are leaving for countries that are less fundamentally religiously fanatic than ours.

]]> By: leopold http://thinkprogress.org/2007/12/15/bali-negotiators-reach-agreement-after-us-u-turn/comment-page-1/#comment-4194199 leopold Sun, 16 Dec 2007 03:44:28 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/12/15/bali-negotiators-reach-agreement-after-us-u-turn/#comment-4194199 <blockquote>And I foresee your scientists getting fed up and leaving. Comment by Bruce Gorton — December 15, 2007 @ 1:50 pm</blockquote> Not as long as you keep sending your students to our universities. Visit a U.S. university sometime. You'll notice, if you pay attention, the substantial number of foreign students, especially in graduate programs. The U.S. is still an excellent place to be for academics and researchers. Our high school education has its problems. We have way to many people who mistake a college degree in engineering or business for an education. But at the top levels of education and research, where the scientists are, we're still at the top. It's our politicians, elected by the uneducated masses (high school graduates, businessmen, engineers), who suck.

And I foresee your scientists getting fed up and leaving.

Comment by Bruce Gorton — December 15, 2007 @ 1:50 pm

Not as long as you keep sending your students to our universities. Visit a U.S. university sometime. You’ll notice, if you pay attention, the substantial number of foreign students, especially in graduate programs.

The U.S. is still an excellent place to be for academics and researchers. Our high school education has its problems. We have way to many people who mistake a college degree in engineering or business for an education. But at the top levels of education and research, where the scientists are, we’re still at the top. It’s our politicians, elected by the uneducated masses (high school graduates, businessmen, engineers), who suck.

]]> By: Lefty Patriot http://thinkprogress.org/2007/12/15/bali-negotiators-reach-agreement-after-us-u-turn/comment-page-1/#comment-4194134 Lefty Patriot Sun, 16 Dec 2007 00:34:09 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/12/15/bali-negotiators-reach-agreement-after-us-u-turn/#comment-4194134 The best science teachers are those who are excited about science. How is that backwards? Comment by Proud American Liberal — December 15, 2007 @ 6:34 pm The best teachers are those excited about teaching. Not everybody can be the best. Being excited about math, science, grammar, or Modern European History doesn't always translate to a young, spoiled, jacked-up-on-sugar, hormonal group of American tweens. The best science teachers are those who are excited about science. How is that backwards?

Comment by Proud American Liberal — December 15, 2007 @ 6:34 pm

The best teachers are those excited about teaching. Not everybody can be the best. Being excited about math, science, grammar, or Modern European History doesn’t always translate to a young, spoiled, jacked-up-on-sugar, hormonal group of American tweens.

]]> By: Proud American Liberal http://thinkprogress.org/2007/12/15/bali-negotiators-reach-agreement-after-us-u-turn/comment-page-1/#comment-4194117 Proud American Liberal Sat, 15 Dec 2007 23:34:14 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/12/15/bali-negotiators-reach-agreement-after-us-u-turn/#comment-4194117 Our science curriculum in this country is in its abysmal state due to the educational requirements of science teachers; they need education degrees, not science degrees. Totally backwards. Comment by Frosty Cupcake — December 15, 2007 @ 2:11 pm The best science teachers are those who are excited about science. How is that backwards? Our science curriculum in this country is in its abysmal state due to the educational requirements of science teachers; they need education degrees, not science degrees. Totally backwards.

Comment by Frosty Cupcake — December 15, 2007 @ 2:11 pm

The best science teachers are those who are excited about science. How is that backwards?

]]> By: mudsharks buddy http://thinkprogress.org/2007/12/15/bali-negotiators-reach-agreement-after-us-u-turn/comment-page-1/#comment-4194110 mudsharks buddy Sat, 15 Dec 2007 23:17:15 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/12/15/bali-negotiators-reach-agreement-after-us-u-turn/#comment-4194110 http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22226310/ watch the video.... http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22226310/ watch the video….

]]> By: MiMiCcs http://thinkprogress.org/2007/12/15/bali-negotiators-reach-agreement-after-us-u-turn/comment-page-1/#comment-4194107 MiMiCcs Sat, 15 Dec 2007 23:15:50 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/12/15/bali-negotiators-reach-agreement-after-us-u-turn/#comment-4194107 We do not need to do anything. As it is, we are exporting our industrial and manufacturing base abroad, and soon Americans will be too poor to full up their gas guzzling machines. Our carbon emissions are bound to go down. The balls in China's court now, they actually emit more carbon than the US now since the only thing we make are the capital goods to build factories, which we export, and weapons, which we also export (one way or another). The Pentagon is the biggest energy user in the US, our war machine guzzles 340,000 barrels of oil per day. This is more than many countries consume, but we consume a lot of it in the 130 countries where we have bases or operations, and not just in the US. http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/174810/michael_klare_the_pentagon_as_global_gas_guzzler We do not need to do anything. As it is, we are exporting our industrial and manufacturing base abroad, and soon Americans will be too poor to full up their gas guzzling machines. Our carbon emissions are bound to go down. The balls in China’s court now, they actually emit more carbon than the US now since the only thing we make are the capital goods to build factories, which we export, and weapons, which we also export (one way or another).

The Pentagon is the biggest energy user in the US, our war machine guzzles 340,000 barrels of oil per day. This is more than many countries consume, but we consume a lot of it in the 130 countries where we have bases or operations, and not just in the US.

http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/174810/michael_klare_the_pentagon_as_global_gas_guzzler

]]> By: DigDug http://thinkprogress.org/2007/12/15/bali-negotiators-reach-agreement-after-us-u-turn/comment-page-1/#comment-4194044 DigDug Sat, 15 Dec 2007 21:36:36 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/12/15/bali-negotiators-reach-agreement-after-us-u-turn/#comment-4194044 <em> Memo to Democrats: See what happens when you stand up to a bully. </em> Yes, if only our democrats had the same courage that the delegats from Papua New guinea have. Or... the same moral compass. I somtimes wonder whether the democrats are being cowardly... or complicit.
Memo to Democrats: See what happens when you stand up to a bully.

Yes, if only our democrats had the same courage that the delegats from Papua New guinea have.

Or… the same moral compass. I somtimes wonder whether the democrats are being cowardly… or complicit.

]]> By: Damien http://thinkprogress.org/2007/12/15/bali-negotiators-reach-agreement-after-us-u-turn/comment-page-1/#comment-4194038 Damien Sat, 15 Dec 2007 21:31:06 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/12/15/bali-negotiators-reach-agreement-after-us-u-turn/#comment-4194038 Memo to Democrats: See what happens when you stand up to a bully. Memo to Democrats: See what happens when you stand up to a bully.

]]> By: RUCerious http://thinkprogress.org/2007/12/15/bali-negotiators-reach-agreement-after-us-u-turn/comment-page-1/#comment-4194037 RUCerious Sat, 15 Dec 2007 21:30:16 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/12/15/bali-negotiators-reach-agreement-after-us-u-turn/#comment-4194037 <em>“If you’re not willing to lead, please get out of the way,” said a US environmental activist representing Papua New Guinea.</em> Sad day for the USA when we are being upbraided, and rightfully so, by Papua New Guinea. Geebus, can't Nov 08 come sooner?? “If you’re not willing to lead, please get out of the way,” said a US environmental activist representing Papua New Guinea.

Sad day for the USA when we are being upbraided, and rightfully so, by Papua New Guinea.

Geebus, can’t Nov 08 come sooner??

]]> By: patooty http://thinkprogress.org/2007/12/15/bali-negotiators-reach-agreement-after-us-u-turn/comment-page-1/#comment-4194036 patooty Sat, 15 Dec 2007 21:28:58 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/12/15/bali-negotiators-reach-agreement-after-us-u-turn/#comment-4194036 And if we don't get "out of the way", we'll be pushed out of the way and will join the ranks of third world countries by the new giants. Our intentional disinterest in scientific technology will leave us in the dust regardless - it's already impossible for us to do any catching up at this point, thanks to the Chimp and the greedy corporations who run his regime. In actuality, it's probably already occurring - the only idiots are the american people who want to believe the lies about themselves and our very sick, twisted government. And if we don’t get “out of the way”, we’ll be pushed out of the way and will join the ranks of third world countries by the new giants. Our intentional disinterest in scientific technology will leave us in the dust regardless – it’s already impossible for us to do any catching up at this point, thanks to the Chimp and the greedy corporations who run his regime. In actuality, it’s probably already occurring – the only idiots are the american people who want to believe the lies about themselves and our very sick, twisted government.

]]> By: patooty http://thinkprogress.org/2007/12/15/bali-negotiators-reach-agreement-after-us-u-turn/comment-page-1/#comment-4194034 patooty Sat, 15 Dec 2007 21:26:14 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/12/15/bali-negotiators-reach-agreement-after-us-u-turn/#comment-4194034 As Al Gore so aptly named his flick, all this is a very "inconvenient truth" for the US. It means that we will have to stop our greed machine; it means that we will have to change our evil ways. As Al Gore so aptly named his flick, all this is a very “inconvenient truth” for the US. It means that we will have to stop our greed machine; it means that we will have to change our evil ways.

]]> By: patooty http://thinkprogress.org/2007/12/15/bali-negotiators-reach-agreement-after-us-u-turn/comment-page-1/#comment-4194031 patooty Sat, 15 Dec 2007 21:23:21 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/12/15/bali-negotiators-reach-agreement-after-us-u-turn/#comment-4194031 Foiled again and made to look like polluting misanthropes and global criminal ignorants. Foiled again and made to look like polluting misanthropes and global criminal ignorants.

]]> By: HSUK http://thinkprogress.org/2007/12/15/bali-negotiators-reach-agreement-after-us-u-turn/comment-page-1/#comment-4194021 HSUK Sat, 15 Dec 2007 21:06:01 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/12/15/bali-negotiators-reach-agreement-after-us-u-turn/#comment-4194021 Uh, Husk? W will be gone on January 20, 2009. Please don’t make it longer than it actually is!! Comment by normalasf — December 15, 2007 @ 3:19 pm Oops...it just seems as if he's been there for decades...Thanks for pointing my error out. Uh, Husk? W will be gone on January 20, 2009. Please don’t make it longer than it actually is!!

Comment by normalasf — December 15, 2007 @ 3:19 pm

Oops…it just seems as if he’s been there for decades…Thanks for pointing my error out.

]]> By: DigDug http://thinkprogress.org/2007/12/15/bali-negotiators-reach-agreement-after-us-u-turn/comment-page-1/#comment-4194012 DigDug Sat, 15 Dec 2007 20:53:13 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/12/15/bali-negotiators-reach-agreement-after-us-u-turn/#comment-4194012 <em>“If you’re not willing to lead, please get out of the way,” </em> Wow! This is very much like what I'm always saying to the trolls around here. If you don't believe in global warming and don't want to help, then fine, but at the very least <strong>get the f-ck out of the way of the people <em>who</em> are trying to help!</strong> “If you’re not willing to lead, please get out of the way,”

Wow! This is very much like what I’m always saying to the trolls around here.

If you don’t believe in global warming and don’t want to help, then fine, but at the very least get the f-ck out of the way of the people who are trying to help!

]]> By: Juan C. http://thinkprogress.org/2007/12/15/bali-negotiators-reach-agreement-after-us-u-turn/comment-page-1/#comment-4193989 Juan C. Sat, 15 Dec 2007 20:21:09 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/12/15/bali-negotiators-reach-agreement-after-us-u-turn/#comment-4193989 Bruce, I think there is a double game in the US, and you only gave us a brilliant description of what happens as a facade. There is no more conservative developed country in the world than the US and this situation hasn't changed in a long time, so when foreign scientists began populating academic jobs in US universities, this situation already existed and they didn't run away, far from it. Scientists are seen like rat labs in some ivory towers working with secret machines and that stuff by almost any common population, not just the US one. However, I think no other country spends so much in science and technology than the US, as retrograds as US govts seem, they sure trust a lot in science and tech advances in order to be on top of the world in the arms, space and energy race. So, the "we hate science" motto is a facade to appease the most rotten religious wing of the US, meanwhile they keep sending and recruiting the best of the best in their Universities. That's one of the things I admire from the US. Bruce, I think there is a double game in the US, and you only gave us a brilliant description of what happens as a facade.

There is no more conservative developed country in the world than the US and this situation hasn’t changed in a long time, so when foreign scientists began populating academic jobs in US universities, this situation already existed and they didn’t run away, far from it.

Scientists are seen like rat labs in some ivory towers working with secret machines and that stuff by almost any common population, not just the US one. However, I think no other country spends so much in science and technology than the US, as retrograds as US govts seem, they sure trust a lot in science and tech advances in order to be on top of the world in the arms, space and energy race.

So, the “we hate science” motto is a facade to appease the most rotten religious wing of the US, meanwhile they keep sending and recruiting the best of the best in their Universities. That’s one of the things I admire from the US.

]]> By: normalasf http://thinkprogress.org/2007/12/15/bali-negotiators-reach-agreement-after-us-u-turn/comment-page-1/#comment-4193987 normalasf Sat, 15 Dec 2007 20:19:28 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/12/15/bali-negotiators-reach-agreement-after-us-u-turn/#comment-4193987 Uh, Husk? W will be gone on January 20, 2009. Please don't make it longer than it actually is!! Uh, Husk? W will be gone on January 20, 2009. Please don’t make it longer than it actually is!!

]]> By: wmhogg http://thinkprogress.org/2007/12/15/bali-negotiators-reach-agreement-after-us-u-turn/comment-page-1/#comment-4193986 wmhogg Sat, 15 Dec 2007 20:19:24 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/12/15/bali-negotiators-reach-agreement-after-us-u-turn/#comment-4193986 So it's possible for members of the Bush administration to be shamed into doing what is right? I must be dreaming, or misunderstand the post... So it’s possible for members of the Bush administration to be shamed into doing what is right? I must be dreaming, or misunderstand the post…

]]> By: Juan C. http://thinkprogress.org/2007/12/15/bali-negotiators-reach-agreement-after-us-u-turn/comment-page-1/#comment-4193979 Juan C. Sat, 15 Dec 2007 20:09:54 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/12/15/bali-negotiators-reach-agreement-after-us-u-turn/#comment-4193979 <em>And I foresee your scientists getting fed up and leaving. Comment by Bruce Gorton</em> And I would like to add to Katy that the vast majority of scientists that put US in the first place were exiled Russian, Germans, Austrians, English running from persecution. And I foresee your scientists getting fed up and leaving.
Comment by Bruce Gorton

And I would like to add to Katy that the vast majority of scientists that put US in the first place were exiled Russian, Germans, Austrians, English running from persecution.

]]> By: GL2814 http://thinkprogress.org/2007/12/15/bali-negotiators-reach-agreement-after-us-u-turn/comment-page-1/#comment-4193958 GL2814 Sat, 15 Dec 2007 19:43:30 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/12/15/bali-negotiators-reach-agreement-after-us-u-turn/#comment-4193958 The rest of the world is leaving us behind, while our government stagnates, moaning about issues like gay marriage and the war on Christmas. Yes, the rest of the world snickers at us, and for good reason. They shake their heads, and wonder how we ever allowed a bunch of right wing, hypochristian, environment hating, corporate butt-kissing warmongers take control of our country! The rest of the world is leaving us behind, while our government stagnates, moaning about issues like gay marriage and the war on Christmas. Yes, the rest of the world snickers at us, and for good reason. They shake their heads, and wonder how we ever allowed a bunch of right wing, hypochristian, environment hating, corporate butt-kissing warmongers take control of our country!

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