The increase in incomes of the top 1 percent of Americans from 2003 to 2005 ($524.8 billion) exceeded the total income of the poorest 20 percent of Americans ($383.4 billion), according to a new report by the Congressional Budget Office. “On average, incomes for the top 1 percent of households rose by $465,700 each, or 42.6 percent after adjusting for inflation. The incomes of the poorest fifth rose by $200, or 1.3 percent, and the middle fifth increased by $2,400 or 4.3 percent.”
We’ve entered the second gilded age and most Republican voters haven’t even noticed. Why do they keep voting against their own economic interests?
December 15th, 2007 at 2:05 pmThis explains why the American economic numbers , on average, look so good.
Robt. Reich’s quip ( Reich is about 5 ft tall)…
“On average, Michael Jordan and I are 6 ft. tall.
December 15th, 2007 at 2:07 pmFrosty Cupcake,
‘Cause them illegals is takin’ ur jobs, them gays is gittin’ married and the terrists ‘r’ gunna turn us all islamic!!!
December 15th, 2007 at 2:09 pmI hear that the dumb are getting dumber faster too.
Frosty - most of those people entertain some private fantasy of attaining vast wealth - they’re like the suckers at a casino, and they’ll happily piss away their last dollar, then borrow more from the mafiosi, before they’ll confront the simple reality that it just isn’t going to happen. Plenty of people who drive shitty cars and live in shitty places vote with the righties, against their own best interests, because “when I get rich, I don’t want to have to pay a bunch of taxes on it”. It’s magical thinking at best, and borderline retardation at worst, and the poor stupid s.o.b.’s are going to drag us all down with them, if someone doesn’t figure out a way to snap them out of their idiot-trance.
December 15th, 2007 at 2:11 pmParis Hilton for President!
Well, at least we have the Crawford Caligula to lead us to religious salvation.
-GSD
December 15th, 2007 at 2:16 pmHoratio Alger is dead.
Welcome to the Corporatocracy.
December 15th, 2007 at 2:17 pmFrosty Cupcake
Well, they aren’t terribly good with money.
That’s why they get conned when it comes to healthcare.
You see, government provided healthcare means higher taxes. They poop themselves at the thought of higher taxes - and promptly spend double what it would have cost them in taxes even if they hit the top bracket, on health insurance.
December 15th, 2007 at 2:21 pmI have to quote King from the movie Platoon:
“The poor are always being *bleeped* over by the rich. Always have, always will.”
Today, that comment can slightly revised:
“The middle class and poor are always being *bleeped* over by the rich. Always have, always will.”
Corporatocracy is right!
December 15th, 2007 at 2:24 pmYes, Republican voters are so dumb they’ll sit in their holey underwear in their doublewide and defend Paris Hilton’s right to inherit her family’s wealth & not pay estate tax. They vote against their interests but think it’s logical because their American Dream© is that they will be one of the wealthy someday. So they think they’re voting to protect that dream. Ignorance is funny! Especially when all of the facts are spelled out for them so vividly. Of course all of the Republican trolls on this board are billionaires so this doesn’t apply to them, snark.
December 15th, 2007 at 2:26 pmI heard a rumor that Dick Cheney has a gold plated colostomy bag.
-GSD
December 15th, 2007 at 2:30 pmWhy do they keep voting against their own economic interests?
Comment by Frosty Cupcake — December 15, 2007 @ 2:05 pm
They dont understand history and think that things will turn out different. They also confuse materialism and wealth with happiness and winning. Lets take Frank M’s statement from yesterday. “Winning is everything and your a nobody if you dont win.”
This type of free market thinking, [all for one and all for me] which doesn’t work, creates disparity AND inflation.
In all things we must moderate.
December 15th, 2007 at 2:32 pmThis report should put a big dent in The Chimperor’s rep for incompetence.
He and his cabal set out to accomplish this feat, and they succeeded. All of what looked to us like fcukups (Katrina, Iraq, abstinence-only education, the War on Science, blah blah blah…) were all part of the plan.
December 15th, 2007 at 2:39 pmSigh…
December 15th, 2007 at 2:43 pmThe middle class and poor who vote Republiscum - against their own interests - are either incredibly stupid or they are daydreamers.
They are more concerned about the bedroom habits of other Americans, when they should be worried about their iown household.
They favor the politician who falsely claims he has Jesus on his side, when they should know Jesus admonished the rich about their selfishness.
They are more concerned about terrorists coming here, when they should be worried about their favorite politicians making war around the globe for oil wealth, and creating new generations of terrorists who hate us.
They believe what the Republiscum politicians and pundits tell them — and then watch mindless TV instead of educating themselves and facing reality about what their party politics is doing to undermine them, their families, their jobs, the environment, their country and its standing in the world.
Inflation is about 4% - so the middle class is merely treading water. The poor have lost (no surprise there).
The rich - if they had a conscience - would retreat to their cellars to count their gold in shame.
So this is what they meant by “the Trickle-Down Effect”. Gotta’ love them Conservanomics.
December 15th, 2007 at 2:57 pmNone of this surprises me. That has been the aim of the Republiscums, to make us a nation with a ruling class and then there are the serfs. What I can’t understand is why the serfs are being so complacent and don’t rise up and protest.
December 15th, 2007 at 3:02 pmWelcome to the United Corporations of America. Now sit down and shut up!
December 15th, 2007 at 3:05 pmThe rich richer??? Really???
What else did we expect?
I would be richer too if I had my taxes cut as the rich had by Bush.
Our country is all bush-ited! All is bush-it!
December 15th, 2007 at 3:06 pmTheir money would be halfed if the Chinese and Saudis cash in their dollars
meanwhile the poor would still be living on minimum whatever that rate is
December 15th, 2007 at 3:09 pmThis is the selfish society that the american dream is based on
inflation is a way to keep the poor at the bottom of the chain
December 15th, 2007 at 3:10 pmFrosty Cupcake, read anything by George Lakoff regarding the republican party being the ‘Father Party’ and an online website ‘The Authoritarians’ can’t remember the author, but he’s been studying conservatives for many years and he offers some interesting insights. It’s probably not the total story, but these authors have insights into things that are totally foreign to liberal/progressive thinking. Good Luck.
December 15th, 2007 at 3:15 pmHuh?
I thought free market and neoliberalism were gonna save the world from economic unjustice. Well, I’m gonna wait some more…
December 15th, 2007 at 3:27 pmYou can see this in the communities…the increase of older cars, homelessness, shortage of food in food banks and the increase of ridiculously large home being built.
the number of signatures is at 37,044
December 15th, 2007 at 3:27 pmThe middle class and poor who vote Republiscum - against their own interests - are either incredibly stupid or they are daydreamers.
Comment by Marie
Well, and sorry for the off topic, but there are also women who chooses Judaism, Christianism and Islam as their religions…
December 15th, 2007 at 3:28 pmMost Republicans would name Lottery tickets as their “retirement plan”. With this govt that’s about the odds of hitting their American Dream©.
December 15th, 2007 at 3:29 pm“everybody does better when everybody does better.”
Jim Hightower
December 15th, 2007 at 3:29 pmSign of the Times:
While getting gas yesterday, I noticed the fellow in front of me putting gas into his SUV, and he had one of those “W 2004″ stickers on his bumper.
I went in to pay and pick up some green tea. The other fellow ended up in line in front of me. He paid for his gas in quarters, $10.00, one roll of quarters, a little over three gallons down here, guess he did not have far to go.
Ah, the Sheeple are truly amazing. One of these days, the bubble will pop and these people will find out why it is important to think for yourself, question everything and believe only what you can verify.
December 15th, 2007 at 3:33 pmThe neuvo wealthy also had their wealth halfed by the devaluation of the dollar during the last five or six years, sadly so did the poor and the retired.
December 15th, 2007 at 3:35 pm
December 15th, 2007 at 3:36 pmCan someone, anyone tell me how religion got into this message thread about economics?
Comment by Citizen_of_Earth — December 15, 2007 @ 3:33 pm
Funny.
December 15th, 2007 at 3:40 pmCan someone, anyone tell me how religion got into this message thread about economics?
Comment by Citizen_of_Earth
Yes. There are the words: off topic in my post. There.
December 15th, 2007 at 3:43 pmRe 29:
Religion is the opiate of the masses, or is it the other way around? I can never remember…
December 15th, 2007 at 3:50 pmReligion is another example of how people do things against their own best interest. But submit humbley to the authority of others anyway.
December 15th, 2007 at 4:01 pmLook up some first world countries on the CIA world factbook and notice who has the worst GINI:
45 US
38 JAPAN
35 SPAIN
36 UK
36 ITALY
33 CANADA
28 GERMANY
27 FRANCE
That’s right, the U.S.A.; it’s right up there with China. Mexico, Brazil, and China do have worse income disparity (though Mexico’s is falling).
December 15th, 2007 at 4:04 pmMr. Juan C.,
Please take note; you are not going to convert me to your mythical thinking. I am a citizen of Planet Earth and then a citizen of America and Germany (yes, I have dual citizenship).
I am an educated person, I was raised a Catholic, went to a Fundamental Baptist Theological Seminary (left after two years because I could not stand the hypocrisy) and have been a life long learner. I spend at lest five to eight hours a day researching.
I have lived overseas for the first half of my life, and visited countries from Australia to Italy (I plan on covering the rest of the globe in the next few years) and have lived in 12 states and visited many more. I am a free thinker, which is why I bother coming to this web site.
In short, I do not need you or anyone else to tell me what I should believe, or why I should believe it. I am a progressive and am proud to call myself a liberal.
I care about humanity, I know that if we (humanity in general) were to spend as much money on compassion as we spend on bullets and bombs, we would have a much more peaceful world and half the problems.
I also know that because of the current policy in this country, I travel abroad much different now than I did seven years ago. I know that most of the other citizens of this planet do not HATE AMERICANS, they HATE OUR POLICY AND LEADERSHIP for it’s shortsightedness.
I don’t go to the sites that support conservatism and wonder what it is in you psychology that makes you come here to bother us. Perhaps you might want to see a therapist about this compulsive need.
From where I sit, you are part of the problem, not part of the solution, so, in short Mr. C. if you can’t leave us alone, then just please leave and have yourself a happy holiday season while you are at it.
Peace.
Citizen_of_Earth
December 15th, 2007 at 4:06 pmGood thing I was making the thread about religion…
Whatever.
December 15th, 2007 at 4:11 pmWhat’s good for the people who own and create new businesses is also good for America, you and me.
Comment by Frank M — December 15, 2007 @ 4:00 pm
What a dipshit.
December 15th, 2007 at 4:18 pmWhat’s good for the people who own and create new businesses is also good for America, you and me.
Comment by Frank M — December 15, 2007 @ 4:00 pm
All evidence to the contrary… oh, wait, it’s Frank. Evidence means nothing to him.
December 15th, 2007 at 4:25 pmthe 28% never voted for the Republicans or economic self-interest. They did it in cultural reaction. Blacks, hispanics, feminists, gays–All the stuff that used to be comfortably tamped down and forgotten, started to rise up.
Remember that LBJ, on the passage of the Voting Rights Act, said that the Democrats had lost the South for a generation? He knew the south, and that was a generation ago.
But I think the cultural conservatives, largely but not completely thefundie Christians, finally have realized they made a bad bargain with the Corporatist Repubs. They turned out to re-elect W–a ‘born-again Christian’ who doesn’t go to church–but were greeted in 2005, not with a push against Roe v. Wade and a sanctity of marriage amendment–but arush to privatize social security.
And this election–why is there no candidate we’re comfortable with, they ask? Why do we have a new York Catholic and a Mormon instead of–
–instead of a rich eastern patrician from Andover, Yale and Hahvahd that they dressed up in a Roy Rogers getup and said yes, oh yes, he’s a Christian! Why he walked on the beach withe Billy Graham! Christian! Why he’s so Christian it isn’t funny!
James Dobson, Pat Robertson and the rest realize that W was a bill of goods they got sold–he was no more one of them than his daddy was. And Reagan–a divorced Hollywood actor who never gave them what they wanted either….
Some of them might realize that the last Christian in the White House was Jimmy Carter.
But in the meantime the other side of that black bargain have smilingly got what they wanted–the opportunity for the rich to get richer.
The 28% are beginning to realize that they finally pulled off the big job, got away clean. Now that they’re back at the hideout, they’re turning to their partner and said, “OK, what about my cut?” And after 2004, they saw the smile on their partner’s face begin to change…
December 15th, 2007 at 4:26 pmREAL fu(king mission accomplished.
December 15th, 2007 at 4:28 pmWhat’s good for the people who own and create new businesses is also good for America, you and me.
Comment by Frank M — December 15, 2007 @ 4:00 pm
Not when those businesses outsource jobs to india and purchase lead-tainted toys from China.
December 15th, 2007 at 4:33 pmis this a great country..or what?
December 15th, 2007 at 4:39 pmis this a great country..or what?
Comment by keepinon — December 15, 2007 @ 4:39 pm
what?
December 15th, 2007 at 5:05 pmDefinitely What.
December 15th, 2007 at 5:12 pmWhat’s good for the people who own and create new businesses is also good for America, you and me.
Comment by Frank M — December 15, 2007 @ 4:00 pm
Remember that Frank when you’re paying $5 a gallon for gas. What’s good for Big Oil must be good for you. Not because they pay their fair share of taxes, not because they work to help make cars run more efficiently or pollute less, just because a hugely wealthy company is good for the people. The fact that you believe that is amazing.
December 15th, 2007 at 5:16 pmWhat’s good for the people who own and create new businesses is also good for America, you and me.
Comment by Frank M
Your idiotic statement makes no sense whatsoever.
Higher profits for the corporate elite, is partially predicated on maintaining lower wages for the working class.
You’re a complete and utter MORON.
December 15th, 2007 at 5:24 pmMost employees in America are working for small businesses. Those aren’t the ones working the system and keeping it rigged. Small businesses are the backbone of this country, yet it’s the multinationals writing legislation, determining public policy, and running the show.
And getting richer at everyone else’s expense.
December 15th, 2007 at 5:41 pmThat’s what I’ve never understood. You bash the “eliteâ€, yet you expect them to keep hiring you. What is it that you want? Do you want them to take all the jobs abroad? How’s that going to benefit you?
Comment by Frank M — December 15, 2007 @ 5:36 pm
You bash the poor, and expect them to keep working for you…
See how stupid your comment is? Of course you don’t, or you wouldn’t have made it!! ROTFL!!
December 15th, 2007 at 5:54 pm#46: Ah yes. The evil corporate elite - the very people who create the jobs the people need. How dare they get paid well for creating jobs and hiring people and paying them?
Comment by Frank M — December 15, 2007 @ 5:36 pm
Most jobs are created by the middle class, not the ‘elite’. In fact most ‘elite’ businesses succeed when they CUT jobs, and offshore them, not when they create them. But don’t let reality stop you from your CLASS WAR on the MIDDLE CLASS AND POOR - you poor little ‘elitist’ tard!
December 15th, 2007 at 5:55 pmConsider the facts Frank. (I know you won’t but it’s worth a shot). The Republicans in power don’t think it’s necessary that big business pay taxes. They believe that if you relax the taxation the companies will flourish and hire more people. They also believe that you should reduce taxation on wealthy individuals. This should trickle down to everyone else when the wealthy spend this tax savings, this improving the economy. Reps also fight an increase in minimum wages believing that an unregulated economy will find its own balance and people will be paid an equitable wage.
The results of this kind of thinking has led to the story being discussed. The rich get richer, the poor get poorer. Jobs are still outsourced by the wealthy corps because they can become wealthier if they hire people in developing nations that will do the same work for pennies an hour. They continue to pay the govt handsomely to continue to give the wealthy tax breaks. So in the end the ultra wealthy control the govt and you & yours get screwed. And you’re happy with the pittance you earn & own.
If we’re going to list all of the things you’ve never understood this thread will never end.
Here’s a thought… charge a reasonable tax to all corps, large & small. Let’s say 30%. Charge a reasonable tax rate to wealthy people and close loopholes that allow them to earn millions & pay no tax. Stop spending money in the billions on insane wars in an effort to control the world’s oil supply. In the end your country would have no debt, your people would have healthcare (rich AND poor people) and the overall standard of living of all people would increase.
December 15th, 2007 at 6:02 pmhell, even rock-ribbed lou dobbs is off the plutocracy bandwagon, and calling bullshit on the crooked 3rd nipples driving it.
December 15th, 2007 at 6:06 pmA blast from the past:
Now all that’s needed for a plutocracy is to make the repeal of the estate tax permanent.
Once that happens, our dynasty class will be secure. We will be a country run by princely elites, while the rest of us descend into 3rd-world poverty status.
December 15th, 2007 at 6:22 pmIs this basically what Ron Paul’s position is, that the free market should be allowed to flourish and when that happens and a few benefit from those policies while others suffer, that it then demonstrates the ideal way that a free market is supposed to function?
December 15th, 2007 at 6:23 pm54 - Pretty much, only with fewer restrictions on how extreme the injustice and disparity are allowed to become.
December 15th, 2007 at 6:32 pmThey dont understand history and think that things will turn out different. They also confuse materialism and wealth with happiness and winning.”
Comment by Xisithrus — December 15, 2007 @ 2:32 pm
In fact, they confuse materialism and wealth with morality. I think what Salt of The Earth was talking about (Comment by Salt of the Earth — December 15, 2007 @ 3:15 pm) is discussed in depth at a site called The Rockledge Institute. Really interesting reading there.
Citizen of Earth, I think that all that Juan C was saying was that another example of people doing something against their own interests would be women deliberately joining religions that treat them as second (or lower) class citizens. Juan C. is not a troll, he is definitely a progressive and he definitely cares about humanity. You know that I respect you and respect and appreciate your comments (I ‘recommend’ them most of the time), and I think that you may have just taken his point the wrong way. Peace? :)
December 15th, 2007 at 6:36 pmIf you look at the common theme of our history, you will see that the rich will always use wedge issues to divide the lower and middle class so that they would not stand up to them.
Herrenvolk Democracy - white yeoman farmers who don’t own slaves are equal to the richest plantation master because of the color of their skin…
Google Tom Watson and his conversion to tried-and-true racism after he tried to unite poor blacks and whites in the 1890s…
2004 - Gay marriage
2007 - IMMIGRATION
December 15th, 2007 at 7:09 pmFrank thinks it’s a crime that slavery was outlawed. We can never underestimate the lack of humanity of rightwingers, nor their hatred for those whop possess compassion.
December 15th, 2007 at 7:11 pm“A rising tide lifts all boats”
GDP increase, 2003-2005: 6.8% (adjusted for inflation).
Have a nice day!
December 15th, 2007 at 7:32 pmKind of makes you wish there would be a good, strong stock market crash. It would force a lot of these super rich wankers back to earth, and would change the politics of most republicans overnight!
December 15th, 2007 at 7:33 pm59 - as if gdp meant dick for the average citizen.
[they’re really getting less good at it by the day, not that they were ever good in the first place]
December 15th, 2007 at 7:43 pm#53 BnF!!
December 15th, 2007 at 7:53 pmYou’re here! I look for your posts, but I don’t see you very often.
#56 Jane
December 15th, 2007 at 7:55 pmYou did a nice job in explaining Juan C’s post. We know he is not a troll, and like you, I understood what he meant (women who choose something actually against their better interests). Sometimes, the quickly written comment is misinterpreted.
Correction. Jane inadvertently “misspoke”. The correct name is The Rockridge Institute”.
December 15th, 2007 at 7:58 pmMarie, looks like BnF did a hit and run, it’s been a couple of hours. We don’t seem him much at the Zoo, either. But, of course, your presence is always a welcome addition to any thread, I always enjoy your eloquent posts. :) You might want to visit the Zoo yourself sometime, we’d be happy to see you. Click on Wayne’s name link.
Taking a break, I’ll catch up with you sooner or later.
December 15th, 2007 at 8:01 pmThanks, Jane.
December 15th, 2007 at 8:12 pmI have visited the Zoo but I will have to recall my sign in, etc.
I found it somewhat confusing to navigate — my old brain doesn’t learn new tricks very easily.
(I have some trouble with Daily Kos too)
I do check in the Zoo now and then to read the comments - I will check in again soon and see if I can become a contributing member.
The correct name is The Rockridge Instituteâ€.
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider — December 15, 2007 @ 7:58 pm
Would the president of this institute be ‘Hedley Lamarr’?
December 15th, 2007 at 8:19 pmRU! Ahoy Ahoy! I wish we could link to just audio bits, Wayne recorded Hedley’s speech about “hornswagglers, bushwhackers, shitkickers, rapists….and Methodists!” ’cause I love it so much. Makes me snortle (snort/chuckle) every time. Thanks for the laugh. BTW, I heard we share a b’day, yay!
Apologies for the OT, I’ll behave after this.
December 15th, 2007 at 8:41 pmMarie,
I post here and at The Zoo on occasion. Teaching during the day and starting a law practice in the evenings has definitely cut into my posting time.
December 15th, 2007 at 8:57 pmWithin that 1% are those so rich they can afford to put their assets in tax free foundations. Currently, there are at least 500 billion in tax free foundations. They earn about 40 billion in “declared” revenue which they then dole out as charity in the form of donations, grants, and gifts, and this allows them to control our leaders, media and institutions.
When a Rockefeller passes on, most of his US assets are in the foundations, so the death tax does not apply. The exemption for these foundations was created at the same time as the Income tax, in 1913. The rich pay very little tax as a percentage of their net worth compared to the average middle class critter.
The critters pay every kind of tax, sales tax, gas tax, real estate tax, state income tax, federal income tax, and the harshest tax of all, the inflation tax. And if there is anything left to save, they get taxed on the interest the banks give them or the capital gains on their other investments.
Inflation is the cost of flooding the market with credit to allow the rich to expand their empires. This was fine when we kept the capital being created in the country, as this benefitted the critters with “good” jobs being created. However, now with globalization, we export our capital, leaving behind only inflation that is passed on to the critters. So at the end of the day, all the critter earns at the lower paying jobs left is spent, and now, they do not earn enough, and so they borrow, and then pay another tax called interest.
Now, at one time our government honestly reported on inflation. That ended in 1980, and since 1993 the CPI is an out and out lie. The reason is they want to lower the rate of wage increases and entitlement increases that the critters will demand in order to keep up with inflation. Some might call this fraud.
http://www.shadowstats.com/cgi-bin/sgs?
You can check above link for more details supporting the CPI fraud.
Lets see how median home prices, gas and other stuff track with wages from 1990, in 2007 dollars, using the pre-Clinton CPI methodology.
House 2007: 221,000 (-9.4%)
House 1990: 243,800 (92,000 actual in 1990)
Gas 2007: 3:00+ (+4.2%)
Gas 1990: 2.88 (1.09 actual in 1990)
Salary 2007: 38,000 (-28.9%)
Salary 1990: 53,455 (20,172 actual in 1990)
MLB Ticket Price 2007: 19.82 (+ 8.7%)
MLB Ticket Price 1992: 18.24 (9.5 actual in 1992)
Health Care Costs 2007 7,500 (-5.7%)
Health Care Costs 1990 7,952 (actual 3001 in 1990)
If I used the official CPI then wages would check out as tracking inflation, but everything else would be overpriced. Me thinks CPI is just a tool to control wages and massaged accordingly, but the businessmen have the real inflation figured out and adjust their prices accordingly.
Housing prices don’t look like a bubble to me. But increases are good only if you are selling a house in the future, or need to borrow from your equity, but if you just live there, like most do, housing prices mean higher property taxes and insurance. Lets see how fast property taxes fall now that equity in our homes is in the toilet ready for the great flush.
Official CPI figures give Health Care Costs a weighting of 5.7%. Seriously.
Now for healthy folks, you get years of saving from this cost, and then one day, with or without insurance, the hammer hits, and its time to pay up 10 years of average health care costs in a short period. Remember, 7500 is the average, per person, per year, every year.
And in the end, may we RIP. Funeral Costs
Funeral Costs 2007: 7,000 (-25.3%)
Funeral Costs 1990: 9,362 (3,533 actual in 1990)
At least that is tracking our lower wage growth. Might be a hidden message here for the low income critters who want a bargain.
December 15th, 2007 at 9:02 pmFrom where I sit, you are part of the problem, not part of the solution, so, in short Mr. C. if you can’t leave us alone, then just please leave and have yourself a happy holiday season while you are at it.
Peace.
Citizen_of_Earth
Comment by Citizen_of_Earth — December 15, 2007 @ 4:06 pm
Chill out. Juan is not advocating any religion. What is it with inviting people to leave this site? STFU.
December 15th, 2007 at 9:25 pmHas anyone ever taken a close look at the expressions on the face of Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson when he’s near Bush?
I do and here are the frightening results.
December 15th, 2007 at 9:37 pm“The rich get richer because they keep doing the things that made them rich.” Hard work, take education serious, good investments, good decisions, waiting to have children, responsible living, and so on.
“The poor get poorer because they keep doing the things that made them poor.” Ignore education, drugs and alcohol, victim mentality, hatred of the rich, dependant on Government hand-outs, having children too early, irresponsible habits, and so on.
There is no excuse for someone who is able bodied in the United States to be poor. There is so much opportunity here that you have to hide under a rock to keep from having an opportunity drop in your lap. There is enough work to go around, even with illegal aliens. Sometimes the truth hurts.
December 15th, 2007 at 9:55 pmJane,
Sorry to you and Juan and all the other free thinkers here, I don’t know all the folks who visit here, but I have visited enough to know that some are really out there in their thinking and their thinking is very dangerous.
They have already taken all the good jobs overseas by outsourcing them, we have precious manufacturing jobs left, our high tech jobs are all gone, what is left? Service jobs, that is it.
Lets look at the percentage of our children who live in poverty, compared with the rest of the industrialized nations, then tell me the elite care about our people.
1. Mexico = 26.2%
December 15th, 2007 at 10:03 pm2. United States = 22.4%
3. Italy = 20.5%
4. U.K. = 19.8%
5. Turkey = 19.7%
6. Ireland = 16.8%
7. Canada = 15.5%
8. Poland = 15.4%
9. Australia = 12.6%
20. Belgium = 4.4%
21. Finland = 4.3%
22. Norway = 3.9%
23. Sweden = 2.6%
Weighted Average = 11.9%, meaning we are about twice as much as the average industrialized country. Let’s hear more about how the corporations are taking care of the American people!
Yet the poor aren’t getting poorer, the middle class aren’t getting poorer and are improving somewhat and the rich are getting richer because of the recent stock market boom…it’s no surprise at all if you look at the numbers.
You people just want to make a scapegoat out of a group of people and blame them for all your problems, what losers you all are.
December 15th, 2007 at 10:06 pmCitizen,
Since you are new here, asking for clarification would have been in order.
December 15th, 2007 at 10:07 pmYou people just want to make a scapegoat out of a group of people and blame them for all your problems, what losers you all are.
Comment by gitrdone — December 15, 2007 @ 10:06 pm
Do you have some evidence for your assertion, dim wit?
December 15th, 2007 at 10:10 pmWhy don’t middle class Repukes take the government out of the equation and just send a portion of their income to the richest person in their community? Let trickle-down economics work their magic and when that richest person spends that additional income, the middle class Repuke will enjoy increased wealth, right?
I’m paraphrasing, however, this matter brings to mind perhaps the only statement that Holy Joe ever said that made sense (during the 2000 vice-presidential debate), which, paraphrased is as follows:
“There is an old saying that the best way to fatten the chickens is to feed the horse more oats.”
December 15th, 2007 at 10:19 pmOnline Petition to Replace Pelosi as Speaker of the House of Representatives to Advance the Impeachment Process
By submitting a Question of Privilege, any member of the House can put forward the process to remove a seated Speaker of the House! If you want this administration to be Impeached, please read over the petition and sign on!
http://www.petitiononline.com/everyman/petition.html
December 15th, 2007 at 10:21 pmWow, no need to resort to name calling there buddy.
My evidence is the numbers tell otherwise, the rich got richer from the stock market and the recent tax cuts to dividends and long term capital earnings. Has nothing to do with rich getting richer off the poor like you all resort to.
The premature conclusions made on here are based on the headlines rather than the data it’s based off.
December 15th, 2007 at 10:25 pmAnd as a result of the rich getting richer, there was a large increase in tax revenues, since the rich pay the largest portion of taxes.
December 15th, 2007 at 10:27 pmSource for the statistics is UNICEF not the individual countries. Tell some kid who does not have food in his or her stomach tonight that they don’t know what poverty is! Your humanity is completely overwhelming.
December 15th, 2007 at 10:32 pmThis short video explains the whole thing:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=mn4daYJzyls
junior bush: “Some people call you the elite… I call you my base”.
americangoy
December 15th, 2007 at 10:38 pmhttp://americangoy.myblogsite.com/
The premature conclusions made on here are based on the headlines rather than the data it’s based off.
Comment by gitrdone — December 15, 2007 @ 10:25 pm
Bullshit.
Citizen of Earth said it better, and more politely, in #86.
December 15th, 2007 at 10:39 pm“Citizen of Earth said it better, and more politely, in #86.”
Read the article in it’s entirety then to better inform yourself. Because your obviously unaware.
December 15th, 2007 at 10:47 pmWell, the thrid-stringers are here with their complete lack of understanding of how the rich are getting richer on the backs of the poor and middle class, while real wages have decreased since 1970. Not a word of truth or fact from bigfoot and his bullshitters, but who’s surprised/ they naver let facts get in the way of their propaganda. bigfart even admitted that poor republicns think they will get rich by giving away their money and freedom to the already corrupt, obscene, murderous uber-rich. that’s how stupid they are; they think the rich give a shit about them. Such ignorance in America, now onder we haven’t won a war since FDR.
December 15th, 2007 at 10:48 pmyour obviously unaware.
Comment by gitrdone — December 15, 2007 @ 10:47 pm
You’re obviously blindly loyal to those whose only use for you is as cannon fodder.
December 15th, 2007 at 10:49 pmthanks biggie, you’ve pretty much confirmed what everyone in the first 2/3 of the thread had to say about the nature and extent of wanton and self-destructive misunderstanding and misanthropy on the part of the wrong wing. i couldn’t have written up the indictment any better myself.
December 15th, 2007 at 11:03 pmSo, if you inherit a fortune and live off the dividends you pay a maximum tax rate of 15%.
If you work for a living, and decide to take on a second job, for most taxpayers, this would result in at least 25 or 28% of the earnings going to pay ifederal ncome taxes and another 6.20% for social security (for all earnings up to $97,500/year, then it disappears) and 1.45% for medicare (unlimited). For those who are self-employed the combined social security and medicare rates double, to 15.30%.
For a single working person with a taxable income between $31,850 to $77.100 — their tax rate on income falling within this range would be 25% + 7.65% for a total of 32.65%. For a self-employed individual who decides to work more hours to try to get ahead (in the same tax bracket), earnings within this range would be taxed at 25% + 15.3% for a total of 40.3%. Remember that this does not include state income taxes, which in some states is merely a percentage of the federal tax liability (meaning that any changes in federal taxes directly affect state taxes as well). Remember that as earnings increase beyond this point, income tax rates rise to as high as 35% of income, not including social security and medicare.
So a single self-employed wage earner making up to $77,100 pays 40% while a single person living off inherited wealth that is invested and paying dividends pays only 15% on that income, with no increase on that rate, no matter how high their income might be.
A tax rate for most wage earners of at least 32.65% versus 15% for those who live off of dividend checks. So much for rewarding hard work in this country.
December 15th, 2007 at 11:04 pmIf mom or dad are selling their foodstamps for cash so they can buy booze, dope, or cigarettes, that is not the fault of government. Those folks would do the same thing even if the government handed them a wad of cash.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 15, 2007 @ 10:55 pm
again, fact-free, and hateful of all the children starving because the corporate fascists have fired miillions over the past 7 yeqrs, and left people without homes, food, insurance or any kind of security. The good jobs get sent overseas to the poor countries, and the USA gets turned into India and china. you can blame your fake parents all you wnat, bigfoot, everybody here knows you’re just pulling those lines out of your ass, you ahve no facts or studies to back yo up, just your hatred for Americans. Veterans returning from foregn wars are out in the streets freeaing tonight, and you will happily blame them for their conditions rather than realize that a true, patriotic Aemrican would never stand for that behavior from his government. that just proves that you are not a patriot, you’re a lousy citizen who doesn’t deserve the sacrifice of those who go in y8our place because of your cowardice. Unicef, by the way, does its own independent studies; it’s not a moronic robot like you that swallows Bushco’s cum and asks for more. You should read a book once in a while instead of digesting and regugitating the lies and treason of fox and rush, two of the biggest enemies this country has ever had; more dagerous than Bin Laden and Hitler combined. until those two sources of lies are silenced, we can not be free. and until you study facts instead of spouting lies, you are not an American. You are a traitor and a coward.
December 15th, 2007 at 11:08 pmBiggie, Stu, gitrdone…
just because all these big numbers and statistics are more than your math skill level will allow you to comprehend, it doesn’t make the economic mythology you talk about any more real than it ever was, and it doesn’t constitute a good reason to trudge around in here, insulting the intelligence of everyone who has to read your posts.
the bait y’all have taken, hook line and sinker, don’t catch no fish in this here pond, savvy?
December 15th, 2007 at 11:21 pmRepublicans never offered anybody more freedom, they only take away the one’s people that weren’t wingnut cowards fought and died for, that’s the fact. FDR won WW2, the republican-weakened USA hasn’t won since. Bush and the republican congress made the USA look like foolish little girls starting on 9/11, and have continued that scenario without a break up until today. bigfoot’s fascist Newspeak is borne of ignorance of the Constitution and history of the United States, and the lies he spews are the only way he can keep from putting a gun in his mouth and doing us all a favor. rightwing weakness has resulted in Bin Laden’s victory, and the dramatic rise in terrorism worldwide, as well as a falling dollar, rising gasoline prices, and a dysfunctional moral code in the USA. addressing “tax cuts” after the criminal Bush gave the fat, corrupt rich that stole him his seat shows how immorl the right has become. veterans can die in understaffed VA hospitals, children can starve in the streets, but if one fat rich pig can’t buy his 5th vacation house, our freedom is threatened. That’s the same kind of thinking that brought Hitler down,a nd destroyed the USSR, bigfart, and it will destroy you. It can’t happen too soon, or we lose our country. I know that’s not important to you, but to patriots it is.
December 15th, 2007 at 11:23 pmFor the troll who is in denial about poverty and hunger in the US:
One of the most disturbing and extraordinary aspects of life in this very wealthy country is the persistence of hunger. The U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) reported that in 2006:
* 35.5 million people lived in households considered to be food insecure.
* Of these 35.5 million, 22.9 million are adults (10.4 percent of all adults) and 12.6 million are children (17.2 percent of all children).
* The number of people in the worst-off households increased to 11.1 from 10.8 in 2005. This increase in the number of people in the worst-off category is consistent with other studies and the Census Bureau poverty data, which show worsening conditions for the poorest Americans.
[…]
Food insecurity refers to the lack of access to enough food to fully meet basic needs at all times due to lack of financial resources. There are different levels of food insecurity.
FRAC - Hunger and Food Insecurity in the United States
I think someone needs to “lay off the pipe”, and that is not Citizen.
December 15th, 2007 at 11:24 pmThe “O.”, it take it, stands for oxycontin.
December 15th, 2007 at 11:26 pmbigfart, you telegraph your lies every time you use the phrase “fact” or “proven fact”, because they never are proven facts, and you’ve never been able to back up a single one of your desperate lies. of course, you never could, because there are no studies to prove lies.
December 15th, 2007 at 11:27 pmconservatism is a mental illness.
December 15th, 2007 at 11:27 pmBecause your obviously unaware.
Comment by gitrdone — December 15, 2007 @ 10:47 pm
Actually I’m very aware of exactly how stupid you are. Thanks.
December 15th, 2007 at 11:31 pmFact is, even you have the same opportunites every one else has in this country, quite feeling sorry for yourself and go out and make something of yourself. Even you can do it. It will take a change of attitude, but no one is beyond hope.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 15, 2007 @ 11:37 pm
After that moronic rant, I’m going to assume you are a white, middle class, heterosexual male.
Y’all are the only ones who actually believe that equal opportunity bullshit.
The rest of us live in the real world.
December 15th, 2007 at 11:51 pmempty platitudes, biggie
slogans
hyperbole
oversimplification
incoherent, jingoistic generalities
and a heapin’ helpin’ of credulity
why you’d want to show all that off is beyond me
December 16th, 2007 at 12:00 amFact is, even you have the same opportunites every one else has in this country, quite feeling sorry for yourself and go out and make something of yourself. Even you can do it. It will take a change of attitude, but no one is beyond hope.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 15, 2007 @ 11:37 pm
I do quite well, bigfart, without bowing down to our sniveling, coke-dealing little Hitlerian emperor who’s fast taking us into third-world status. Of course, like everyone else but the uber-rich, I did better in the Clinton years, but that’s nothing new. Republicans have always shat on the middle class economically, that’s a proven fact. Always. And thanks for the comparison to Edwards, an honest man with a truly American vision for bringing America back from the brink that Bushco has led us to. how many wars can Bush lose? I have three and counting. You can lie about polls all you want; if edwards and bush ran head-to-head today, Bush wouldn’t get a third of the votes. That’s another fact for you, moron. Edwards would have more than twice as many votes as Bush. And class warfare is being waged by the republicans; they will lose, and if they keep it up, they will lose more than a class war. they will never see this kind of power again, no matter what. 70% of the american people are disgusted with your little lord Fauntleroy, a drunken, coke-addled frat-boy deserter. perfect for you, though, bigmouth.
December 16th, 2007 at 12:04 amI’ve started a business, and you right-wingers have no idea what you’re talking about.
There is no way a small business today can afford to offer benefits. And that limits the kind of people you can get. Energy costs are another monster. And the Republicans stand there and shrug their shoulders as these two choke small businesses to death.
The reduction in the capital gains tax? The ESTATE tax? You think those help the small businessman?
You want to know a real easy way to be poor in america? Start a business. You may eventually do really well, but for the first few years, you’ll be poor. Whatever money you make goes into growing the business. And if you get hit by misfortune–anything from a break-in to a serious illness to your biggest client going bankrupt and leaving you to collect–eventually–pennies on the dollar from a six-figure fee you were counting onto meet a payroll–you can end up with zip in the bank and a second mortgage on your home that’s going to throw your family into a shelter.
Anybody who says there’s no excuse to be poor in America has either a) not graduated from college; b) Never had to deal with a health insurance company; or c) has a trust fund from daddy. They don’t know what the hell they’re talking about.
I have frients whoare highly-trained IT professionals with all the accreditations you can name who are taking data entry jobs that pay a ifth of what they used to get. I have a friend of mine–with a technical Emmy–who’s bagging groceries.
You guys bleating about how the rich create jobs–I tell you this: make this country better for the middle class–make it more possible for people to plan ahead, by making healthcare less of a nightmare– and we can ditch the big corporate elite. We’ll create a new one.
The rich don’t start new businesses–people wanting to become rich do.
And the republicans are doing them no favors.
December 16th, 2007 at 12:12 amintellectual shamelessness
you should have your own political party, biggie, and its mascot should be a jackal
December 16th, 2007 at 12:20 amO. Bigfool, do you really think anyone reads your two-page screeds?
Perhaps if you hadn’t built such a sturdy reputation for nonsense and fact-free invective, people would give your biting commentary a glance.
But unfortunately for you, you’ve been around here a while and people have gotten to know that there’s not going to be much reward to wading through four paragraphs of the bile and misjudgment that passes for your point of view.
December 16th, 2007 at 12:24 amWell said, tombaker.
December 16th, 2007 at 12:24 amNo facts there, either, bigfart. The USA is far down the standard-of-living column, because of republican thievery. you can repeat your lies every hour on the hour, you will just be a bigger liar at the end of the day. YOur personal attacks on me and my motives are obviously you projecting your own inadequacies and insecurites for all the world to see, as I have stated that I am reasonably happy, comfortable and quite successful in my field, with a worldwide following. Joh Edwards is a prince among men compared to the immoral perverts and liars the republicans have scraped the bottom of the barrel to find, and they will lose in a historical landslide. The world will cheer, becasue the world knows that an upright, moral, successful united States is mush better for all than the current corrupt, hobble, injured wreck and embarrassment you and your have turned un into. imagine, a US dlegation in bali booed, and embarrassed into changing thier position because they were made aware of how hateful and destructive Bush policies are. 9/11, bigmouth, that’s the Bush legacy. Abject, total failure to defend the USA, and he has gone downhill since then. keep shouting your whiney lies, we all know what a fool you are, and what a traitor you ahve become. you demonstrate it with every lie you post, which means everu post, because you haen’t any acquaintance with the truth. Edwards will wipe the floor with the pussy whiners you’ve put up, so will hillary and Obama or whoever gets the Dem nod. You’re all done, now, go wipe yourself, you’re stinking the place up.
December 16th, 2007 at 12:26 amYou too, ralph. Well done.
It’s useless trying to deal with that Bigass moron, but you’re well suited to it.
Later.
December 16th, 2007 at 12:28 amThis nation offers plenty of resources for those in need, both at the governmental and private level. We aren’t perfect by any means, but the United States still offers the most opportunity for the greatest percentage of it’s citizens.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 16, 2007 @ 12:34 am
another of your lies. it’s a proven fact that 30 other nations do better by their poor, and opportunity for Americans is a thing of the past. Your republican thieves sent it all overseas, along with their money. like I said, no patriotism on the right, none at all.
December 16th, 2007 at 12:37 amyou’ve begged the question enough big - it’s not going to give you a quarter, so move on to the next car. remember, it’s a numbers game. “Every hundred people, that’s a dollar in change”, to quote someone else.
[that was a joke, big, where i juxtaposed “begging the question”, a rhetorical device you can read about in books, with the “numbers game” played by panhandlers. a lot of other people will have appreciated the humor of it by the time they read my explanation of it, for you, here, so i don’t mind giving away the key to the metaphor. i knew you would need it.]
December 16th, 2007 at 12:39 amtombaker, good effort, but wasted on bigfart, who hasn’t had his head out of his ass for years, now. he’ll never get it, any more than he will understand the fact of Bush’s abject failures.
December 16th, 2007 at 12:42 amresponding to you, bigfoot, doesn’t take more than a cursory scan of your screeds. all lies, all the time. You are reliably the biggest liar in every post, y8ou are reliably a bush cocksucker every chance you get, you are reliably ignorant of facts and truth. resonding to you is for the benefit of the other moronic trolls who show up, so they will learn something; it’s clear you’re incapable of learning. You are stuck in a 60s nightmare of LSD and republican lies; you haven’t kept up with the news, by your own admission (FOX lies notwithstanding), and you haven’t the ability to process facts, or you wouldn’t be so totally outgunned with each post. It’s the only explanation why you are in the tiny minority that still worships the devil Bush, you’re in a cult, and you don’t even know it.
December 16th, 2007 at 12:46 amword, lefty.
and, you never know, from the driest and most barren fields a seed can sometimes grow. if it takes a little extra heat to germinate them, i’ll oblige when i can.
December 16th, 2007 at 12:48 am“There is a reason the Democrat’s symbol is the jackass.”
December 16th, 2007 at 12:50 amOf course, Democrats are sexier…
Who’s ever heard of a “nice piece of elephant”?
Actually, “Lefty Patriot” is a tautology. Tautology is a word you can look up the meaning of using “the google”, biggie.
December 16th, 2007 at 12:53 amThe fact is, a child of the ruling elite does not share the same opportunities as a child of an inner-city single black mother.
December 16th, 2007 at 12:54 amg’nite, biggie, and don’t let the alkayda bugs bite!
December 16th, 2007 at 12:55 amnow we have to judge who MIGHT go hungry, even though they aren’t going hungry now?
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 16, 2007 @ 12:34 am
What twaddle.
The USDA’s definition of “food insecurity” is available to anyone who cares to look. In the definition there are no “maybes”, but reported disruptions of access to food.
To all the facts reported by the USDA, the only “thought” you can offer is: “One person is insecure because he can’t afford a steak dinner every night”.
I am still amazed you managed to pack so much idiocy into such a relatively short rant.
December 16th, 2007 at 1:00 amThen what levels of “food insecurity†are there, Samsa?
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 16, 2007 @ 1:11 am
It’s all there in the link. Click on it. It won’t kill you.
December 16th, 2007 at 1:12 amUgh, too much negativity on these boards.
Can’t thinkprogress.org focus on the good things that are advancing your agenda forward as well, does it always have to be a negative aspect of anything to the right of the center??
Like conservatives, they try to be optomistic about alot of things, hey have faith and strength as well, yet you guys see everything as negative and give up so easily too.
Just not going to help your cause.
December 16th, 2007 at 1:39 amBut like I said, the poor didnt get poorer, only the gap between the rich and poor got wider, but it all trickles down in the end. Just look at the higher tax revenues from the rich as a result.
December 16th, 2007 at 1:41 amNo, gitrdone, the poor got poorer and the middle class got poorer while the rich are bathing in cash. Have you checked out real wages lately? Healthcare costs? I know you want to believe what you say but it is just not true.
December 16th, 2007 at 1:46 amSabyen91, is your beloved New York Times paper lying then??
“At every income level Americans had more income, after adjusting for inflation in 2005 than in 2003, but the increases ranged from almost imperceptible for the poor to modest for the middle class and largest for those at the top.
On average, incomes for the top 1 percent of households rose by $465,700 each, or 42.6 percent after adjusting for inflation. The incomes of the poorest fifth rose by $200, or 1.3 percent, and the middle fifth increased by $2,400 or 4.3 percent.”
http://www.nytimes.com/ 2007/ 12/ 15/ business/ 15rich.html?_r=2&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1197696366-ls6PT1FH6bNDNmF9mThcWg&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
December 16th, 2007 at 2:03 amSo the poor are not getting poorer, but yes their wages are slow rising. Of course, you can blame that on job losses overseas and illegal immigration lower wages.
December 16th, 2007 at 2:04 amWell being that I’m from Canada and the conservatives are in power both in my province and in federal government and wages have been rising very nicely for us, of course, we dont have a flood of illegal immigrants here like you do in the U.S.
Ever thought that may be keeping your wages down??
December 16th, 2007 at 2:07 amgitrdone. you do get the concept of rising costs, right. They have far outpaced rises in income. Nice of you to look at the small picture, though.
December 16th, 2007 at 2:14 amYeah, it is the illegal immigrants. You are so simplistic, gitrdone.
December 16th, 2007 at 2:15 am#138, the rise in incomes are taken into consideration after inflation.
#139, an over-abundant supply in labor affects wages as well, talk to any trades person and they will tell you had badly illegal immigration as affected their bottom line. It’s more simple than you think, construction jobs are good incomes for families if the job market is not over-saturated.
December 16th, 2007 at 2:24 amBuschco mission accomplished, with plenty of help from Ronnie, Bush Sr., and Robert “Citigroup” Reich through Bubba!!
Let the 99% below eat cake!
December 16th, 2007 at 3:32 amIt’s unfortunate that most people don’t know how calleous the rich really are. The average person likes to think that rich people are just like them but with more money.
Not true.
I have known many rich people in my life and most of them are mean jerks who look down their noses at anyone ‘beneath them’. They assume their wealth proves proves they are better and smarter than other people. It doesn’t bother them that they are making out like bandits while the rest of the world stares. They are corrupt and proud of it.
It is very important that every nation controls its criminal rich or they will take over the country and create some form of dictationship of the wealthy.
It is no wonder to me that Jesus predicted that most of these people would ever get to heaven.
December 16th, 2007 at 3:44 am“again, fact-free, and hateful of all the children starving because the corporate fascists have fired miillions over the past 7 yeqrs, and left people without homes, food, insurance or any kind of security. The good jobs get sent overseas…” —Lefty Patriot
Hateful? Give me a break. The post you are referring to spoke of the irresponsibility of the parent or caregiver. The gov can only do so much. Outside of having a live-in gov rep, there has to be some individual responsibility.
Absurd tax burdens on business and labor unions have sent more jobs outside the country than any other factors. By the way, it is not the job of the employer or gov to provide homes, food, or insurance to anybody - nor should they. As for security, that is a whole other topic… But I can assure you that it is not a function of gov to protect you from yourself.
December 16th, 2007 at 5:27 amot a songle documented fact from any of the rightwing nazi liars throughout this post, yet the lefties have backed up all of their statements with facts. this is the way of the right: the Big Lie, taken from the Nazi playbook, and proudly exhibited as a desperate move to ‘win”, while America loses. Claims of absurd tax burdens, while the rich live obscene lifestyles of waste and rot, which is OK by the right, because they actually believe they will get the same opportunities. what ignorance the right lives in, what fanciful dreams that come before patriotism or compassion. and America grows poorer and weaker.
December 16th, 2007 at 9:15 amGeorge Bush rules! All others follow!!
December 16th, 2007 at 9:28 amIt is amazing what the trolls will defend.
December 16th, 2007 at 9:37 amLefty, we are fighting a fact based war against faith based propaganda.
We’ll never convince them.
We just need to hope for self-conversions of a few more percentage points.
-GSD
December 16th, 2007 at 9:58 amHere’s how things are going in California according to my personal view of history and what was in yesterday’s paper: The GOP energy cartel, led by tricky dick Cheney et al, with the assistance of former GOP governor Pete Wilson, fabulously screwed California with the so-called “California Energy Crisis” in 2000 and 2001. They successfully pinned the “crisis” on Democratic Gov. Gray Davis who fell to Arnold the Governator in a recall election. The Governator promptly settled the lawsuit against the cartel that the Davis Administration had brought, for mere pennies on the dollar (some $12 BILLION had been stolen from California). Then, to solve the resulting deficit, the Governator put California into debt for 20 YEARS to New York City bankers. Yesterday, the Governator Administration announced an Emergency Fiscal Crisis, allowing him to SLASH the government’s operating budget (money for people with AIDS, children’s programs, schools, healthcare etc.) in the midst of the worst housing crash in modern times. I am watching my neighbors going homeless and will possibly be joining them. But it’s good to know the economy in Manhattan is doing well.
December 16th, 2007 at 10:47 amThanks GOP for all you’ve done for us.
At what point does the hot war begin?
Yippie Ki-Yay? Isn’t that what the dumbass hardon guy in thise Die Hard movies says? Please tell me not another little dick wanna be hard-on guy has swung by to amuse us with his warped out Manly American routine
December 16th, 2007 at 10:51 amA note to BigFoot: laissez faire capitalism has failed every time. It has resulted in warfare and violence every time. Human suffering on a scale incomprehensible to those not experiencing it, every time.
December 16th, 2007 at 10:59 amThe United States of America was not founded upon the principle of UNLIMITED WEALTH FOR THE ELITE. In fact, it was found primarily on the principle of EQUALITY and FREEDOM. There is no equality without economic parity.
And in Modern Fascist America (the Mussolini definition) a corporate media is NOT a free media. The ability of the elite to manipulate public perception with propaganda has never been so effective as it is today. We have no free press, therefore we have no free country. Repeatedly I have seen omissions, disinformation and outright lies in the corporate media parading as the “news”. Your grandiose vision of America the Great overlooks the fact that your America is no longer a republic, but a cash cow led by a hook in its nose into economic exploitation by an oligarchy, primarily through the manipulation of public perception in the corporate media.
What is the point of modern accomplishments, if the fruits of society’s labors are not equally distributed for the benefit of the masses?
BigFoot: You are the poorest excuse for a human being that I have ever seen. This country was not born out of conservative principles but out of radically liberal ideology in a revolution against a conservative, royalist King.
Conservative principles did not make this economy great. It created numerous financial panics in the 1800’s and the Great Depression. FDR and the New Deal policies led to a far more democratic society. Regulation of the stock market and the banking industry prevented market manipulation and financial chicanery that did not arise again until conservative filth started to deregulate the markets. Thus we had the Savings and Loan scandals, Enron and the melt down of the mortgage market.
But there is no real reason to respond to you. I have read your postings so many times to see what you really are. Rarely have I felt so much hatred and desire to see another person die. But I make an exception for you. I am a liberal and I fought for my country. HOW DARE YOU ACCUSE ME OF HATING THE UNITED STATES? I have been in the senior management of a Fortune 500 company that was considered as one of the top 100 companies in the world. HOW DARE YOU ACCUSE ME OF ATTEMPTING TO UNDERMINE THE ECONOMIC SUCCESS OF THIS COUNTRY. I have always believed in the teachings of Christ that we must care for the poorest in our society and those with extreme wealth will have as much chance of entering heaven as a camel to pass through an eye of a needle. HOW DARE YOU QUESTION MY MORALITY AND THE LORD’S VIEW OF MAN’S DUTY TO ANOTHER?
This nation was built on the cooperative efforts of the people. ARE YOU JUST F**KINg IGNORANT OF HISTORY? The first settlements were based cooperative efforts to clear land, till the fields and defend the community. Self reliance and common effort have always worked hand in hand to build this country. The Northwest Ordinance, the land rush settlers in the west, barn raising and militias must all be hateful to you.
THE REASON I HATE YOU AND WANT TO SEE YOUR KIND DIE IS NOT BECAUSE I WANT TO BE A SHEEP. NAZI’S, FASCISTS AND MOST OF YOUR ILK FALL WITHIN THAT DESCRIPTION. IT IS BECAUSE YOU CAN NOT SEE THE BALANCE BETWEEN CAPITALISM AND SOCIAL WELFARE.
December 16th, 2007 at 11:17 amDecember 16th, 2007 at 11:17 am
154. Comment by kassandrasduplex — December 16, 2007 @ 10:59 am
Very well said, the only problem is the folks like the trolls who visit here, in a vain attempt to spread their delusional thinking will never understand what you are saying.
They do not have any room at their table or in their tent for open and honest discussion, they do not believe in empirical evidence or scientific fact. They are here, for who knows what real reason, seemingly to just harass and attempt to intimidate those of us who are free thinkers and progressive spirits.
And, when they get faced with facts, when they are called on their unmitigated BS, they resort to name calling and disparaging remarks. They think that calling someone a liberal will make them feel ashamed, like liberal is a bad word or carries a negative stigma.
What they fail to understand is, that one of the laws of the universe is cause and effect, a law just like gravity, that is always there, even if we try to deny it. And, they too are governed by it. They claim to live by the good book, but ignore the fact that what they reap they will sow. They also ignore one of the basic teachings of Christ, that we love one another and treat each other with dignity and respect.
At the end of the day, they fail to understand the basic tenants of being a member of the human race, much like their predecessors did during the 1930’s to mid-1940’s in places like Germany and Japan.
They cannot grasp the simple fact that a liberal is nothing more than someone who, to quote John F. Kennedy, “looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people — their health, thei