Get out by 2009.
Recently, President Bush announced an endless, “enduring” U.S. presence in Iraq. The most recent CBS/NYT poll asked, “how much longer would you be willing to have large numbers of U.S. troops remain in Iraq?” Nearly 50 percent responded that troops should be out in less than a year, and nearly 25 percent want withdrawal in under two years:
“As you can see, virtually nobody in the United States wants to see American troops remain in Iraq for longer than five years,” writes Matt Yglesias.
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Why do Americans hate America so?
December 17th, 2007 at 1:03 pmLet’s not forget to mention the Iraqis who also overwhelmingly want us out, now.
December 17th, 2007 at 1:05 pmExcept for the corrupt toadies we put into office…
Those Friedman units keep adding up.
∞
December 17th, 2007 at 1:05 pmIt’s kind of sad to see that the “We should leave now” group is so small. I suspect this poll may be flawed in how it asked the question. Was it asked as “Should we turn tail and run immediately, and admit that the US is just a bunch of babies?” Of course, nobody would support that. How about “Should we acknowledge that all reasonable goals have been met in Iraq, and strengthen the US by shifting forces to other more critical service immediately?”…
December 17th, 2007 at 1:06 pmLet’s see now… what is the definition of democracy?? hmmmmm……
December 17th, 2007 at 1:07 pmPffttt…
Bush doesn’t care what we think.
December 17th, 2007 at 1:08 pm“It’s kind of sad to see that the “We should leave now†group is so small. I suspect this poll may be flawed in how it asked the question.”
Comment by zathrus — December 17, 2007 @ 1:06 pm
The question asked in the poll was worded this way: “From what you know about the U.S. involvement in Iraq, how much longer would you be willing to have large numbers of U.S. troops remain in Iraq — less than a year, one to two years, two to five years or longer than five years?”
Since “leave now” wasn’t one of the options in the multiple choice list, the small number of people who said that went “off the menu” and volunteered that response. All others who want to see us get out as soon as possible most likely responded with “less than a year” — making that response as great as all others combined.
December 17th, 2007 at 1:10 pmBush doesn’t care what the Christian nation wants.
December 17th, 2007 at 1:11 pmThank missmolly for pointing out the survey question methodology. I’m concerned about the presence of the word “willing”. Obviously, the bulk of the population is clearly “willing” to just let the President run roughshod over their rights, and do whatever he wants. A more important question would be “how much longer do you think large numbers of US troops should stay in Irac?”.
Considering that it wasn’t even an option, I am heartened by results of the survey, despite the appearance that it validates a “drawdown over the next year” approach.
December 17th, 2007 at 1:15 pm…good for the nation and the public is not qualified to determine that.
Comment by Frank M — December 17, 2007
Speak for yourself please, the government is for and by the people. They are our servants and not us theirs.
December 17th, 2007 at 1:18 pmIt’s a matter of what’s good for the nation and the public is not qualified to determine that.
Comment by Frank M — December 17, 2007 @ 1:16 pm
Frank summed up the reich-wing “mentality”….do not question your reich-wing leaders and do not oppose their decisions.
December 17th, 2007 at 1:18 pmWell Frank, since you think that, you can finally stop posting.
December 17th, 2007 at 1:19 pmInvading a country that didn’t and couldn’t us is good for the nation?
December 17th, 2007 at 1:20 pmIraq by the numbers: Graphing the decrease in violence….
http://www.longwarjournal.org/ archives/ 2007/ 12/ iraq_by_the_numbers.php
December 17th, 2007 at 1:24 pmFrank - you’re not qualified either then, ya anti-democratic nutjob.
December 17th, 2007 at 1:24 pmComment by Charles James Napier — December 17, 2007 @ 1:24 pm
Swell, let’s bring out troops home then and let herr dubyah make another carrier landing.
December 17th, 2007 at 1:25 pmFrank M: “It’s not a matter of what the public wants.”
God, that’s just so dumb. Go back to school, Frank. In a representative republic, it’s EXACTLY a matter of what the public wants. You’re confusing our system with a monarchy, a theocracy or a dictatorship which might be what you want, but it’s not what we have.
December 17th, 2007 at 1:26 pmOh goodie - here come the timid men.
“Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the boisterous sea of liberty” - Thomas Jefferson
Frank, Chuck - what do you suppose Jefferson was talking about in that quote?
December 17th, 2007 at 1:26 pmFrank, Chuck - what do you suppose Jefferson was talking about in that quote?
Comment by tombaker
—————————————————–
He was speaking of people like you.
December 17th, 2007 at 1:28 pmNapier, look at your own graph. The numbers start decreasing at the same time that the Pentagon started using a new set of standards to report casulties. I’m guessing you don’t know about the change of standards or, if you do, you think this is just some strange coincidence.
December 17th, 2007 at 1:28 pmIt’s a better thing we don’t govern by trolls.
December 17th, 2007 at 1:29 pmChevron and other Big Oil companies want us to have five big bases there for as long as oil can be pumped out of the ground. But they don’t want to pay a fair share of taxes.
December 17th, 2007 at 1:30 pmNapier: “He was speaking of people like you.”
Jefferson was a balls-out liberal, stupid. In that quote, he was talking about Tories and Royalists, who were the conservatives of his time.
December 17th, 2007 at 1:30 pmHeil Bush then Frank. Thank God we the people don’t don’t have a say in our government. I mean what do they think this is a democracy?
What a coward, and a traitor you and your ilk are Frank. Time to grow a pair, stand up for the constitution and our country.
December 17th, 2007 at 1:30 pmcold hard idiot: “It’s a good think we don’t govern by polls.”
Polls are a statistical measure of what the people want, so what you’re saying is you don’t want the government to do what the people want.
December 17th, 2007 at 1:31 pmRet. Col. Jack Ripper,
Twist it any way you like.
December 17th, 2007 at 1:31 pmIt’s not a matter of what the public wants. It’s a matter of what’s good for the nation and the public is not qualified to determine that.
Comment by Frank M — December 17, 2007 @ 1:16 pm
I don’t suppose you can even begin to see how absurd this statement is.
Since you obviously fell asleep during your civics class, let me give you the basics.
1) This is a democracy, not a dictatorship.
2) WE are the ones who get to determine what we want. But since holding a national election on every single little referendum would be impractical, we elect people to represent us.
3) We are entitled to exercise our right to free speech and free assembly to voice what we want.
4) We are entitled to communicate to and with our elected representatives to voice what we want.
5) If we are dissatisfied with how we are being represented, we are entitled to elect somebody else for the job.
6) If those we choose to represent us misuse that responsibility, we have legal mechanisms for removing them from office.
So Frank — not only do we have the right to determine what’s good for the nation, every American of voting age has the DUTY to do so. No matter how “qualified” we are (and I daresay that most of us are more qualified than the pair we have in the White House right now).
December 17th, 2007 at 1:32 pmPffttt…
Bush doesn’t care what we think.
Comment by Zooey — December 17, 2007 @ 1:08 pm
Neither do the vast majority of the Democrat powers that be; Reid, Rockefeller, Pelosi - shall I go on?
December 17th, 2007 at 1:32 pm#10
“It’s not a matter of what the public wants. It’s a matter of what’s good for the nation and the public is not qualified to determine that.
Comment by Frank M — December 17, 2007 @ 1:16 pm”
Hmmm…Last time I checked I thought the nation *was* the public.
December 17th, 2007 at 1:34 pmThanks again Frank, for demonstrating the depth of your historical knowledge.
You see Frank, the Founders were prepared to die, rather than live under tyranny, whether that tyranny came from without or within.
That’s why they were courageous and progressive, and you are cowardly and re-gressive.
From the Dark Ages up through the Enightenment, since “suitcase nukes” (another righty unicorn that doesn’t really exist - ask a nuclear physicist why) were not available, craven powers would simply burn down the Church on Sunday morning, while their victims were gathered inside, killing all. There is nothing new under the sun, Horatio.
December 17th, 2007 at 1:34 pmFrank: “Jefferson didn’t live in an age of suitcase nukes and freaking lunatics who’re willing to kill themselves so that they can blow up women and kids in the process.”
God, what an idiot. Jefferson lived during a time when hostile forces invaded the capital and burned down the Whitehouse. He was part of a group of men who were accused of treason and summarily sentenced to be executed for signing their names to a document proclaiming our independence from tyranny.
December 17th, 2007 at 1:34 pmNapier: “Twist it any way you like.”
No, Napier, there is no spinning Jefferson. You see that’s your philosophical problem - you think truth is something maliable which can be twisted to the reality you want. Jefferson was hostile to Tories and Royalists who wanted us to remain an English colony subject to the whims of King George. There’s no spinning or twisting.
December 17th, 2007 at 1:36 pmRet. Col. Jack Ripper,
Jefferson was speaking of people (like you) who would rather the world be run by despots than to have to go through the mess and trouble and bloodshed required to create free societies.
December 17th, 2007 at 1:38 pmNapier, if you want to ACT like you know what Thomas Jefferson was thinking, it might help if you knew THING ONE about history.
December 17th, 2007 at 1:39 pmThere’s no spinning or twisting.
Comment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper
————————————————
I was referring to your comment #21.
December 17th, 2007 at 1:39 pmNo I am not qualified. That’s why I support our leaders.
No, you support Reich-wingers. You support your reich-wing party, not America. You refuse to ever question your reich-wing masters because you are incapable to do so. It’s innate.
December 17th, 2007 at 1:41 pmyou’ve got that one inside-out and upside down, napier. are you, in fact, on some kind off drugs?
December 17th, 2007 at 1:42 pmNapier, if you want to ACT like you know what Thomas Jefferson was thinking, it might help if you knew THING ONE about history.
Comment by Ret. Col. Jack
———————————————
Spare me your condescension.
December 17th, 2007 at 1:42 pmNo Ron Paul story on TP????? Come on TP!
December 17th, 2007 at 1:43 pmSpare me your condescension.
Comment by Charles James Napier — December 17, 2007 @ 1:42 pm
As soon as you spare us your desperation, stupidity, and immorality.
December 17th, 2007 at 1:43 pmComment by Frank M — December 17, 2007 @ 1:43 pm
Joseph Goebbels would be proud of you, herr Frank.
December 17th, 2007 at 1:44 pmFair enough, Charles. I was referring to mid-2007, when the Pentagon announced that it would no longer call certain kinds of fatalities resulting from car bombs as casulties. At the time, critics claimed that the new criteria would result in a reporting of fewer casulties and the Pentagon agreed. Google on Pentagon and “reporting casulties” or something like that if you want to check me out on this.
December 17th, 2007 at 1:48 pmWe do not ned wishywashy democracy where every damned idiot, pagan priest and welfare queen is given an equal voice with someone who actually contributes to the strength of the society.
Comment by Frank M — December 17, 2007 @ 1:43 pm
You are right Frank we should go back to when only land owning white men were allowed to have a say in government. How very elitist of you Frank. I understand why Bush must appeal to you, him being the son of a wealthy political family. Why work for anything when it can be handed to you because of your connections. Get use to the messiness of democracy Frank, get used to the people having a say. The feudal times are over, and the elitists such as yourself lost.
December 17th, 2007 at 1:49 pmBigmouth: “We are a form of Republic where we elect our leaders and then allow them to make the decisions for us.”
No. This is a basic misunderstanding of what our Founders had in mind. Representatives were supposed to represent their constituents desires, but checks and balances were built into the system to make sure that the “tyranny of the majority” did not subert a civil democratic system.
December 17th, 2007 at 1:49 pmAt his most desperate hour, Washington would not have accepted these “timid men” into his regiment.
December 17th, 2007 at 1:50 pmO. Bigfoot,
Well said.
Now prepare to be call a Nazi by the great thinkers at ThinkProgress.
December 17th, 2007 at 1:50 pmI, for one, am not going to stick around and witness another Authoritarian bootlicker circle jerk on one of these threads.
biggie, frank, chuck - couldn’t you guys find a public restroom somewhere, instead of wagging your wood around in here. It’s obscene.
December 17th, 2007 at 1:53 pmFrank: “We need strong government, strong leaders and strong discipline.”
As a number of our Founders felt as evidence by their writings and public statements, democracy is not for the faint of heart, the weak-willed or the weak minded. It requires courage. Frank, evidently it’s not for you.
December 17th, 2007 at 1:53 pmRegardless of what the average American thinks, most US troops don’t support a long occupation in Iraq. I talk to veterans like myself, everyday, as well as soldiers still in theater, and I haven’t talked to any that say we should have a force larger than 30,000 one year from now. Most all veterans of OIF/OEF as well as soldiers still serving in Iraq, agree it is time to start removing forces. 2007 has been our deadliest year ever, and certain forces are shaping up to make 2008 even worse (by far) if we don’t change strategy now.
December 17th, 2007 at 1:54 pmO. Bigmouth: “However, when a poll comes out suggesting support for the Iraq plan, “progressives†will howl that most Americans don’t even know where Iraq is on a world map, so how do “those†flat-earth troglodytes know whats good for ‘em?”
Can you cite this poll, or does it exist as a figment of your imagination?
December 17th, 2007 at 1:55 pmCan you cite this poll, or does it exist as a figment of your imagination?
Comment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper
———————————————-
It’s called the Presidential election of 2004.
December 17th, 2007 at 1:56 pmChris: “Regardless of what the average American thinks, most US troops don’t support a long occupation in Iraq.”
Chris, as long as the people OR the troops don’t agree with King George, the royalists around here don’t care what they think. They’ve made that very clear in posts above.
December 17th, 2007 at 1:56 pmAs a result, our elected representatives have access to information the general public either doesn’t have the time to see, or will never see do to the nature of the information comment by big fool
Irrelevant to this argument.
Reich-wingers didn’t listen to America in 2006 and they got their collective arses kicked in the midterms….that’s democracy at work. Get use to it, you perverse, immoral, and ant-American GOPigs are going to be a permanent minority. Democracy is a great thing.
December 17th, 2007 at 1:59 pmBAGHDAD - The leader of Iraq’s biggest Shiite militia movement has quietly resumed seminary studies toward attaining the title of ayatollah - a goal that could make firebrand cleric Muqtada al-Sadr and his Mahdi Army an even more formidable power broker in Iraq.
http://news.yahoo.com/ s/ ap/ 20071213/ ap_on_re_mi_ea/ iraq_ayatollah_al_sadr;_ylt=Akg3ZpS.A4P7mcHf7IawLp6s0NUE
American commanders have said that they are aggressively negotiating with Sadr officials to help keep his militia, the Mahdi Army, in check. But if the cease-fire ends, if Mr. Sadr’s whims shift, that could push violence up again–no matter how many troops are here. Basically, the Americans find themselves playing the role of facilitators, hoping that both sides stick to their newfound strategies, and doing everything they can to keep it that way.
http://vetvoice.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=116
December 17th, 2007 at 1:59 pmNapier: “It’s called the Presidential election of 2004.”
Wow, and you accused me of spinning. Number one, the 2004 election was more or less 50-50. Number two, the people now know more about Iraq than they did then.
December 17th, 2007 at 2:00 pmIt’s called the Presidential election of 2004.
Comment by Charles James Napier — December 17, 2007 @ 1:56 pm
###
So, what do you think of the poll that was taken in November of 2006?
December 17th, 2007 at 2:00 pmHeck, in the last day or so, some fellow who claimed to be student of Christianity actually wished I would die. Comment by O. Bigfool —
Was it Ann Coulter? Sean Hannity? O’Racist? etc? All those reich-wingers wish murder and death on people and they claim to be “Christian”.
December 17th, 2007 at 2:00 pmFrank M,
“It’s not a matter of what the public wants. It’s a matter of what’s good for the nation and the public is not qualified to determine that.”
Then why hold elections?
December 17th, 2007 at 2:00 pmBiggie - you’re only going to get as good as you give, so don’t be surprised when what you get amounts to insults. Fair is fair, and it’s not optional.
December 17th, 2007 at 2:02 pmHeh. The trolls recommending their own stupid posts. Keep it on.
December 17th, 2007 at 2:04 pmOh really!!
Supposedly, according to all you libs, the Nov 2006 “referendum” said that most Americans wanted us out of Iraq! Remember this claim? Well, if in fact that was true, wouldn’t you left nutters think that San Fran Nan and Harry “The Body” would have taken care of that for all of you?
So what have they done? ANSWER: NOTHING. The Dem lead Congress is the WORST Congress ever and it has done NOTHING! Totally IMPOTENT!!
Let’s face facts! If it’s true that a large percentage of the U.S. want us out of Iraq…WE WOULD BE OUT. Obviously this is not true at all.
Wake up libs!
December 17th, 2007 at 2:07 pmoh - here’s the other guys. i forgot that they need a quorum to intitiate circlejerk proceedings.
jerk away, followers, just don’t forget to have your illegal immigrant domestics mop up when you’re done.
December 17th, 2007 at 2:09 pmLet’s face facts! If it’s true that a large percentage of the U.S. want us out of Iraq…WE WOULD BE OUT.
Wake up libs!
Comment by John Kerry
Sure, let’s face facts:
1) No WMDs in Iraq.
2) No Saddam - AlQaeda connection
3) No stable Iraq
4) No democracy in Iraq
5) Iraqis NEVER THREW FLOWERS. They want you out.
Bunch of sorry losers.
December 17th, 2007 at 2:10 pmjk’s one that they call a “screamer”. sometimes, his exclamations of ecstasy cause the others to lose their wood, and the circle has to be re-formed.
December 17th, 2007 at 2:12 pmSo what have they done? ANSWER: NOTHING. The Dem lead Congress is the WORST Congress ever and it has done NOTHING! Totally IMPOTENT!!
Let’s face facts! If it’s true that a large percentage of the U.S. want us out of Iraq…WE WOULD BE OUT. Obviously this is not true at all.
Wake up libs!
Comment by John Kerry — December 17, 2007 @ 2:07 pm
Yeah, it’s not like the OBSTRUCTIONIST REPUBLICANS keep FILIBUSTERING EVERY BILL IN CONGRESS, IS IT?
Oh wait, it IS THE REPUBLICANS THAT ARE DO NOTHING!!! They DID NOTHING When they were in charge, and they make sure THIS CONGRESS DOES NOTHING when they aren’t!!! Yeah, ‘tard, keep blaming others for YOUR BAD BEHAVIOR!! Toe Tap your way forward if you MUST - but THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS KNOW that YOU are to blame - ‘tard!
December 17th, 2007 at 2:13 pmOh really!!
Supposedly, according to all you libs, the Nov 2006 “referendum†said that most Americans wanted us out of Iraq! Remember this claim? Well, if in fact that was true, wouldn’t you left nutters think that San Fran Nan and Harry “The Body†would have taken care of that for all of you?
Comment by John Kerry — December 17, 2007 @ 2:07 pm
Actually that’s the WILL OF THE DEMOCRACY, but WE were all WELL AWARE that you ANTI-DEMOCRATIC FASCISTS would block the WILL OF THE PEOPLE! That’s why YOU HAVE SUCH LOW APPROVAL RATINGS, and why you UNRESPECTED REPUBLICANS keep bringing down CONGRESSIONAL APPROVAL! But don’t worry ‘tard, we ALL know you’re to blame, even if you’re too ‘tarded to KNOW IT YOURSELF!! You’re like the SPECIAL OLYMPICS of BLOGGERS - ROTFL!!
December 17th, 2007 at 2:15 pmWe do not ned wishywashy democracy where every damned idiot, pagan priest and welfare queen is given an equal voice with someone who actually contributes to the strength of the society.
No, we do not need a corporatocracy where every damned CEO of a multinational corpseoration can buy access to the decision making process of our nation. Your pathetic stereotyping reveals a weak mind that would rather search for scapegoats than assign blame where it belongs.
December 17th, 2007 at 2:16 pmTroll.
It is now painfully obvious that the fragile majority that was elected to the Senate in 06 was not sufficient to do the job of stopping the Bush madness.
December 17th, 2007 at 2:17 pmWe’ll fix that in 08.
Trolls.
You’re like the SPECIAL OLYMPICS of BLOGGERS - ROTFL!!
Comment by republicans hate facts
LMAO!!
December 17th, 2007 at 2:19 pmWe do not ned wishywashy democracy where every damned idiot, pagan priest and welfare queen is given an equal voice with someone who actually contributes to the strength of the society.
ROTFL!!!! yeah, we don’t need DEMOCRACY when the ARISTOCRACY can DECIDE FOR US!!! You do realize that we had a REVOLUTION to EVICT FOOLS LIKE YOU - RIGHT? Please do us a favor and LEAVE AMERICA, we BELIEVE IN DEMOCRACY here - EVEN IF NAZI ‘TARDS like YOU - DON’T!
December 17th, 2007 at 2:20 pmJohn Kerry,
“So what have they done? ANSWER: NOTHING. The Dem lead Congress is the WORST Congress ever and it has done NOTHING! Totally IMPOTENT!!”
I’m sure you’re taking into account that the current crop of Republicans have filibustered more than any other Senate in history, and we still have a year to go in this current Senate.
So perhaps you can tell me why this is.
December 17th, 2007 at 2:38 pmIt’s remarkable how some things never change. When the Founders of our country attempted to create the independent government we have today, their critics included people who professed a profound distaste for the idea of democracy and self-governance. Back then they were called Tories and Royalists. The conservatives on this board are, whether they know it or not, expressing largely the same feelings as the supporters of King George did in the late 18th century. Amazing!
December 17th, 2007 at 2:38 pm“…where every damned idiot, pagan priest and welfare queen is given an equal voice” - Bigfoot
There we go - finally getting to the true colors of Biggie, the Racist, evoking Lee Atwater’s welfare queen myth. Likely, he entertains some homophobic and misogynist thoughts too, as we see from Hendler, Southern Man, and several of the others.
They’ve adopted a lot of exotic camouflage, and layers of rationalization to support and conceal it, but at the end of the day they are garden-variety haters, with an agenda that’s geared to marginalizing and dehumanizing brown people, women, gay people, and anyone else their archaic worldview deems “deviantâ€.
Our Trolls - A living exhibit depicting popular prejudices from throughout our Nation’s History. Donations accepted in the form of prescription pain medication.
December 17th, 2007 at 2:39 pmJohn Kerry, Republicans in the Senate are on course to set a new historical record for the number of filibusters in a congressional session. Would it be too much to ask for you to take that into account?
December 17th, 2007 at 2:40 pmJohn Kerry presents the best argument for giving Dems a supermajority in both chambers. Thanks, Kerry!
December 17th, 2007 at 2:41 pmFake senator from mass…
December 17th, 2007 at 2:45 pmkeep it up, watch what happens in Nov 08.
RUCerious: exactly. The more they gloat about the inability of congress to get things done and the more Bush vetos legislation supported by the vast majority, the more nails are added to their political coffin.
December 17th, 2007 at 2:53 pmbigfoot, et al are called nazis as a form of joke. they are too cowardly to be real nazis; they are just toy nazis; all the words, none of the courage of their convictions.
December 17th, 2007 at 2:56 pmComment by Frank M — December 17, 2007 @ 1:43 pm
I know I’m really going to regret this, and I really should know better, but I’m going to respond to this blather, bit by bit.
“You really want to trust all the morons and morally degenerate creatures inhabiting this country? I don’t.”
– Yet you appear to support the morons and morally degenerate creatures occupying the White House now. How do you reconcile this?
“Democracy is a fundamental mistake that has turned the entire western civilization into a bunch of cowards and weaklings…”
– And you think that a dictatorship or a totalitarian government would keep us strong? How do you figure? And how is it that you haven’t fled from the United States over to North Korea if you prefer this type of government?
“…no wonder the Europeans are currently being overrun by the muslims who can’t believe their luck that we’re actually letting them invade us and destroy our culture and religion without any resistance.”
– I’m sorry, I missed the news item that said that European culture and religion has been destroyed by Muslims. Last I heard, Christianity was still the dominant religion in almost all European countries.
“We need strong government, strong leaders and strong discipline.”
– You sound like a member of Hitler Youth. I always thought conservatives preferred LESS government, not more. Strong leaders are often a plus, provided they can lead while seeing where they are going. A strong leader flying at full speed into a brick wall without even blinking isn’t a good thing. And strong discipline? Um…like what? (I almost hate to ask)
“We need to keep the unchristian influences out.”
– So you are saying that even though the first amendment specifically states that there shall be no establishment of religion, there should be an establishment of religion — specifically Christianity? And what do you propose to use as a litmus test at the immigration gate to determine “un-Christian” influences? Should everybody have to recite a few New Testament verses or something?
“We do not ned wishywashy democracy where every damned idiot, pagan priest and welfare queen is given an equal voice with someone who actually contributes to the strength of the society.”
– How do you intend to monitor the amount of contribution to the “strength of society”? Again, is there some litmus test to make that determination? What do you consider to be adequate contribution? Should it be an intelligence test? A wealth test? Should contribution be measured by humanitarian deeds? Or do you just think that the only people who should be allowed to vote and/or participate in government are the people who think like you do?
BTW — our “wishy-washy” government with all our “cowards” and “weaklings” has managed to survive for over 231 years now. Many governments in this world don’t even come close.
December 17th, 2007 at 3:14 pmWell, at least the neocons are not even bothering to hide their dementia.
“Democracy is a fundamental mistake that has turned the entire western civilization into a bunch of cowards and weaklings…â€
Frank M expresses what every single Neocon thinks here. The Neocons have tarred and feathered anything that even remotely resembles liberal or progressive thought, because that thought leads down the road they don’t want to go.
“We do not ned wishywashy democracy where every damned idiot, pagan priest and welfare queen is given an equal voice with someone who actually contributes to the strength of the society.â€
He hates the fact that all voices are weighted equally in an ideal representative democracy, and every step where some society takes a step he disagrees makes him burn up inside. In fact, it makes him so mad, he can’t see straight. After all, surely not being able to see his screen is why he spelled ‘need’ with one ‘e’…
“We need strong government, strong leaders and strong discipline.â€
Of which we have none of the above by any measure. What he really wants is for a dictatorship…that’s the best way to ensure that those voices he disagrees with are silenced.
And my favorite line of all:
“We need to keep the unchristian influences out.â€
Frank, then that means Ted Haggard has to go. So does Pat Robertson. Hell, every single xtian, from the leader of the multi-billion-dollar corporate theocratic megachurch to _you_, Frank, need to go. I laugh every time I hear one of your type say that the US needs more Christianity in its diet. I’ll NEVER be able to take you and yours seriously again after you made that pass at my wife in the gym last week. This is you, one moment lamenting marriage as keeping a fine young woman whose body you were eyeing unavailable from you and lamenting that fact by saying “Marriage is bad because you can’t see anyone” and then the next minute spewing bile and fire and brimstone because “You’re living in sin and don’t have Jesus because you’re bisexual!” You are all a bunch of hypocrits, Xtian.
This is the crux of the argument. And as they lose power, watch more of these come out. I wouldn’t be surprised if they try a coup to take over where their stealth takeover failed, too. This belief won’t go away, and even if they’re put in their place today, they’ll simply rise again later.
As the old line goes, “The price of liberty is eternal vigilance.” They WILL try again in the future.
December 17th, 2007 at 5:30 pmYou deny trotting out the “welfare queen” myth? May not have been in this thread, but you’ve done it recently - the earnings gap thread maybe? Matters not, since we always generalize to the entire group, don’t we? Hence, “you liberals”, “the liberal”, etc..
Guess you’ve got to be ready to take one for the team sometimes, Big. I am, and I do.
December 18th, 2007 at 1:41 am