FBI withdrew from interrogation due to CIA’s ‘harsh tactics.’
FBI withdrew from interrogation due to CIA’s ‘harsh tactics.’
In 2002, as the CIA used “harsh tactics” to interrogate al Qaeda operative Abu Zubaydah, FBI agents involved in his detention increasingly “protested the aggressive methods that were used.” Reportedly, “one agent was so offended he threatened to arrest the CIA interrogators.” The Washington Post reports today that the tensions between the two agencies became so bad that FBI Director Robert S. Mueller III “eventually ordered the FBI team to withdraw from the interrogation” because of the tactics being used:
Tensions came to a head after FBI agents witnessed the use of some harsh tactics on Abu Zubaydah, including keeping him naked in his cell, subjecting him to extreme cold and bombarding him with loud rock music. [...]
FBI Director Robert S. Mueller III eventually ordered the FBI team to withdraw from the interrogation, largely because bureau procedures prohibit agents from being involved in such techniques, according to several officials familiar with the episode.
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Why does the FBI hate America?
December 18th, 2007 at 6:08 pmAh. Ain’t torture grand??
December 18th, 2007 at 6:10 pmno, no, we don’t torture. yous guys must be confused.
December 18th, 2007 at 6:10 pmhttp://www.tshirtinsurgency.com
Cue torture-loving trolls in 3, 2, 1…
December 18th, 2007 at 6:10 pmWhy does your mom hate freedom?
December 18th, 2007 at 6:10 pmhttp://tshirtinsurgency.com/node/41
So, why didn’t the FBI members who witnessed this atrocity report it to the newspapers and expose what was being done. Why have so many people sat idly by watching our country be flushed down the drain. I know that if I witnessed something like that, I would go public and be damned if they want to fire me over it, or prosecute me over it. If someone was brave enough to blow the whistle on the Bush Crime Family, they would have so much public support that it would be impossible for Bush to prosecute them for anything.
That’s why I am so angry with Pelosi and the others who knew about the torture. I know that they are sworn to secrecy but there comes a time when one has to do the right thing, not what they were sworn to do. If Pelosi had blown the whistle on Bush, she would have been the most popular politician in this nation.
December 18th, 2007 at 6:14 pmThe FBI ain’t with us, so they must be against us.
http://13martyrs.blogspot.com/
December 18th, 2007 at 6:14 pm‘We do not torture’……G.W.Bush
December 18th, 2007 at 6:14 pmSir, who in the f*** is ‘we’?..you and your dog Barney?????
If there’s a clearer sign about the moral quicksand that we’ve entered into by allowing ‘torture’ or ‘enhanced interrogation techniques’, I have yet to see it.
We have become worse than the terrorists we fear.
December 18th, 2007 at 6:17 pmSo, why didn’t the FBI blow the whistle on the rogue operation?
December 18th, 2007 at 6:18 pmAren’t they complicit or just chickenshit?
“harsh tacticsâ€
Quit effing calling it harsh tactics.
IT”S EFFING TORTURE>!
December 18th, 2007 at 6:19 pmAnd why did they not do the right thing and arrest them or at least report that activity to the Media, oh I forgot the “Liberal” media would only tow the Repukian Party Line and bury it until someone exposed it, then they would be all like, “look what we discovered, aren’t we good reporters”.
The Repukian Fascist Party has corrupted the entire nation.
Buck Fush
December 18th, 2007 at 6:22 pm11 – Oh, no, no, no!!!! It’s not TORTURE!!
No, it’s just like a swimming lesson! You know, at camp!
December 18th, 2007 at 6:22 pmHey, you say potato, I say fill people’s lungs with water until they have the sensation of impending death…
December 18th, 2007 at 6:24 pmComment by Billy Hill — December 18, 2007 @ 6:27 pm
billy…?
December 18th, 2007 at 6:30 pmWilliam Hill, your pretense of being anything other than a slobbering troll is laughable.
December 18th, 2007 at 6:31 pmbilly hill has joined the chickenhawk brigade, afraid of his own shadow.
December 18th, 2007 at 6:32 pmBilly knows.
December 18th, 2007 at 6:33 pmHe works for the government.
He told us so.
He only knows how to spell “progressive” because that’s the kind of soup he cooks on his Sterno stove. When he doesn’t drink the Sterno first.
It’s not Billy’s fault. It’s all the allergy medications. And the cough syrup.
December 18th, 2007 at 6:35 pmComment by ralph the wonder llama — December 18, 2007 @ 6:35 pm
Robotrippin’ is about as white trash as meth
December 18th, 2007 at 6:37 pmAt least Mueller (FBI) had the presence of mind to understand that what was occurring was highly illegal but I am wondering where he’s been for the past 5 years on this and who has been sitting on him to prevent him from going public?? Herein lies our answer. Herein lies the real rotten apple among us.
December 18th, 2007 at 6:40 pmRotten apple? The whole right side of the orchard is diseased. We’d have to burn that part just to save the rest, if it’s not too late.
December 18th, 2007 at 6:44 pmBut he didn’t arrest them. His silence made him an accessory.
December 18th, 2007 at 7:03 pmIt must be pretty bad if the FBI backs out.
December 18th, 2007 at 7:04 pmIt’s not fair for you guys to be blaming W for this. You don’t really think Cheney would allow him to be in the loop, do you?
December 18th, 2007 at 7:08 pmBut he didn’t arrest them. His silence made him an accessory.
Comment by Doc Rock — December 18, 2007 @ 7:03 pm
EXACTLY CORRECT. Everybody aware of what was being done needs to be held accountable. This goes straight to the top including Pres. Dick and the cheerleader prince.
December 18th, 2007 at 7:08 pmAs a Progressive Democrat I find it strange….
Comment by Billy Hill
Hillbilly has gone off the deep end. Does he really think that we would buy it that he is a progressive or a Democrat? These Tards are getting lamer and lamer. Come on RNC, how about some fresh meat. And this time, try to send in someone with an IQ of better than 75.
December 18th, 2007 at 7:29 pm“And this time, try to send in someone with an IQ of better than 75.”
That would take a team of at least three.
December 18th, 2007 at 7:38 pmAdd FBI Director Robert S. Mueller II to the list of war criminals that needs to be tried at the Hague.
December 18th, 2007 at 7:43 pmAdd FBI Director Robert S. Mueller II to the list of war criminals that needs to be tried at the Hague.
Comment by Fools on the Hill — December 18, 2007 @ 7:43 pm
they’ll need to rebuild Spandau to house the entire maladministration while the trials proceed.
December 18th, 2007 at 7:45 pmthey’ll need to rebuild Spandau to house the entire maladministration while the trials proceed.
Comment by Lefty Patriot — December 18, 2007 @ 7:45 pm
I don’t get the Spandau reference but I know of a large detention center somewhere very close to Cuba that has some space.
December 18th, 2007 at 7:48 pm#32: Spandau Prison was where Rudolf Hess was held for the rest of his life after the Nuremburg Trials.
December 18th, 2007 at 8:21 pmSpandau = Nazi Concentration Camp.
But hey, Guantánamo gives the same signifiance to the phrase.
December 18th, 2007 at 8:24 pmHas anyone here seen the movie, The Siege, with Denzel Washington, Annette Bening and Bruce Willis? Denzel is the FBI, Bening is the CIA, and Willis is the out of control General, imposing martial law.
The CIA and Willis are interrogating a naked Muslim, I think they eventually killed him. FBI (Washington) is appalled at their tactics.
When I saw the movie had been made in 1998, I was dumbstruck at its foretelling of the news of today.
December 18th, 2007 at 8:24 pmToday’s story in the WaPo is another reminder.
Well, in fact Spandau was really a Nazi Prison, not a Nazi Concentration Camp. After the war, was used to house the nazis themselves, awaiting the judgement at Nurnberg..
December 18th, 2007 at 8:27 pmI am just going back to read the comments now and many wonder WTF is wrong with Mueller — (Denzel Washington he ain’t). He is another one complicit in the grand scheme by the cabal that has taken over our government. They have been putting their people in place, creating the right conditions for years, right under the noses of all of us, and anyone and everyone who was in the know was either threatened or joined them.
December 18th, 2007 at 8:29 pmProud to be an American yet?
December 18th, 2007 at 8:29 pmI wonder what other bedrock principles of justice and dignity, what other laws that millenia of human suffering have with agonizing slowness have brought into being the neocon scumbag cowards are willing to toss overboard so that they can “feel safe”. Maybe we could start up some death camps. We could execute Muslim families on TV, make lampshades out of their skin, etc. Why should it stop with just torturing people? All you need is the inability to face fear rationally and off you go…
December 18th, 2007 at 8:34 pmComment by jayjaybear — December 18, 2007 @ 8:21 pm
December 18th, 2007 at 8:39 pmThanks jayjaybear, I was thinking of the ballet, then I looked it up. :)
And these FBI agents did not arrest the torturers?
What the fck happened to enforcing the goddamed law?
US Code TITLE 18–CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
PART I–CRIMES
CHAPTER 113C–TORTURE
Sec. 2340A. Torture
(a) Offense.–Whoever outside the United States commits or attempts to commit torture shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both, and if death results to any person from conduct prohibited by this subsection, shall be punished by death or imprisoned for any term of years or for life.
(b) Jurisdiction.–There is jurisdiction over the activity
prohibited in subsection (a) if–
(1) the alleged offender is a national of the United States; or
(2) the alleged offender is present in the United States,
irrespective of the nationality of the victim or alleged offender.
(c) Conspiracy.–A person who conspires to commit an offense under this section shall be subject to the same penalties (other than the penalty of death) as the penalties prescribed for the offense, the commission of which was the object of the conspiracy.
December 18th, 2007 at 8:48 pmMarie, everyone should watch The Siege.
It is shockingly accurate.
The anri-Constitutional ghouls that want to torture will never be satisfied and will want more and more.
The classic slippery slope.
-GSD
December 18th, 2007 at 8:58 pmBut he didn’t arrest them. His silence made him an accessory.
Comment by Doc Rock — December 18, 2007 @ 7:03 pm
Yep, see the conspiracy section of my previous post.
Anyone involved in this, all the way to the white house needs to be fscking arrested and charged.
Bush too after he is impeached or leaves office.
That includes anyone who knew and covered up or kept silent. All are accessories to Conspiracy.
December 18th, 2007 at 9:01 pmThere is no “sworn to secrecy” when a crime is or has been committed. That’s called conspiracy.
I keep repeating this, and it gets me thrashed in here, but a politically smart person will nor trust (or vote for) the Democratic leadership, or anyone put forth by them as a candidate, at this point. Their reluctance to prosecute the BA for their crimes, to me, indicates that they like the status quo just fine – all they want is to be in the catbird seat. GWB has proven that a lack of popularity among the electorate is no reason to stop looting the treasury.
December 18th, 2007 at 9:31 pmWe no longer refer to the deceased as “dead”. From now on, they are “completely sick”.
December 18th, 2007 at 9:33 pmFBI arresting CIA. Mission Accomplished!
December 18th, 2007 at 9:44 pmI agree, 44. Mainstream Democrat or Republican, this has ceased to be a government “of the people, by the people, for the people”. It has become a government that sees itself as a separate entity, acts for it’s own interests, and the only major difference between the two is the style with which they go about pursuing that interest: brutal, stupid, and ham-handed for the current crop of troglodytes in the White House. But Pelosi’s actions speak louder than words.
December 18th, 2007 at 10:14 pmComment by Veritas — December 18, 2007 @ 6:40 pm
Well, we could have a Senate hearing about it, if Bush will let him testify. Either way, Bush will invoke Executive Priviledge, and Reid will write a couple of letters to the White House and the DOJ, but they’ll be ignored. A few Repub Senators and Congresspersons, along with Romney and Rudy, will accuse the Senate leadership of supporting the terrorists, and that will be the end of it.
SOS, different day.
December 18th, 2007 at 10:18 pmLeave it to trolls. They keep forgetting that it’s bad PR for a nation to get a reputation for cruel treatment of prisoners. Historically, it’s very bad for business.
December 18th, 2007 at 11:25 pmYes. I’ve been proud to be an American all my life.
Any patiotic American is.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 18, 2007 @ 11:00 pm
leaves you out. You’re a traitor, pure and simple. you’ve done nothing to improve or defend the USA, in fact, you have actively contributed to our ever-weakening position in the world. You are actually an enemy of America.
December 18th, 2007 at 11:29 pmComment by O. Bigfoot — December 18, 2007 @ 10:59 pm
Thus if the teens, and nudists, and the Polar Bear Club members can handle it, so must the terrorists. Which means the treatment ain’t worth sh*t.
December 18th, 2007 at 11:36 pmFrom the Polar Bear Club site’s FAQ:
How long do you stay in the water?
Time varies depending on the weather, particularly the wind. It can be as long as 20 minutes or as short as 4 minutes.
I’d say the terrorists undergo the treatment much longer than 20 minutes. Otherwise, as I mentioned before, it’d be a waste of time.
Polar Bear Club indeed. What a lame-ass attempt to condone treatment of prisoners.
December 18th, 2007 at 11:43 pmbigfoot the coward speaks from ignorance and sociopathy. Too bad we can’t subject him to his fantasies; he wouldn’t last 2 minutes before giving up his mother.
December 18th, 2007 at 11:47 pmBigO hasn’t stuck around for a “debate”, to use the term loosely, since he realized Bushco wouldn’t fulfill his wet dream of a “nukular” attack on Iran.
Which may also explain his recent devotion to the indiscriminate torture of just about everyone but white Americans.
December 19th, 2007 at 12:10 amthe best torture of all would be to make them listen to Benito Giuliani. Every time he makes a campaign appearance in NH, his numbrs plummet. Very funny, everybody hates his guts. Just what he deserves, self-serving, incompetent fascist.
December 19th, 2007 at 12:17 amnote also that tomorrow’s ny times
is reporting that cheney’s lawyer,
bush’s lawyer and the NSA lawyer,
among others, ALL debated destroying
the torture tapes between 2003 and 2005. . .
what are the odds that all their lawyers
knew — and bush and CHENEY did not?
slim to none. slim to none.
December 19th, 2007 at 12:17 am“As a Progressive Democrat I find it strange….
Comment by Billy Hill ”
Huh? When did you become a Progressive Democrat?
December 19th, 2007 at 2:00 am“Naked in his cell? Talk to nudists who choose nakedness over clothing any day.
Extreme cold? Talk to the Polar Bear Club.
Loud Rock Music? Talk to 90% of today’s teenagers.
Any of this torture? Nope.”
You DO realize how trollish you sound, right OB?
December 19th, 2007 at 2:02 amLeave it to treacherous little weasels like tinyfoot here to fear for his safety in this big scary world to such an extent that they run away from everything it means to be an American, camouflaging their cowardice with faux patriotism like ink squirts from a fleeing squid. Sure as hell would NOT want you in my trench, tinyfoot.
December 19th, 2007 at 2:46 amThere are not fundamentalists in foxholes.
December 19th, 2007 at 2:49 amAnybody remember when GW was telling the press we need to change the laws to protect the people that were responsible for keeping our nation safe?
December 19th, 2007 at 6:52 amThis MUST the story behind why he was saying all that but at the time the public knew nothing.
This was news about 3 years ago.
Comment by Kilo — December 19, 2007 @ 5:06 am
Too bad most Americans never got it as news, then or now. Same with Dodd’s heroics; page A29 of the NYT. Some liberal media.
December 19th, 2007 at 9:09 amNever before has a President and Vice President deserved to be impeached more than these.Yet our Speaker of the House of Representatives, Nancy Pelosi, is working behind the scenes with House Democrats, not to build a consensus for impeachment, but to do just the opposite. To keep others from succeeding in their effort to hold this president accountable by means of impeachment.With the FISA bill looming in the Senate, we have to show the leaders of the House and Senate that this is still our country. Please read the petition to replace Pelosi with a Democratic Representative who will bring impeachment proceedings to the floor.
http://www.petitiononline.com/everyman/petition.html
Please help me spread the word of this effort. We can either “ask” that they impeach, or we can tell them “impeach or get the hell out of the way.”
December 19th, 2007 at 9:23 amAs a Progressive Democrat I find it strange that there are that many sissy Marys in the FBI. It does not come as a suprise though as agents have been caought selling Amway out of the trunk of cars, hell, J Edgar was a cross dresser that pretty much says it all. The CIA has higher standards of training as ALL of the interrogators have been subjected to water boarding many times as well as the rest of the techniques use to extract valuable information. Its these al qeada guys fault for making the CIA have to go through with these techniques in the first place. They should just “give it up†over a nice cool drink and a camel steak.
Comment by Billy Hill — December 18, 2007 @ 6:27 pm
Another coward afraid the evil Isalamics are coming to invade his trailer park. You are PATHETIC.
December 19th, 2007 at 9:32 amHey! I like Neal Young! Not his politics, of course. But I do like his music.
“Lets Roll†is one of my favorites.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 19, 2007 @ 9:32 am
I can guarantee he doesn’t like you, he doesn’t like racist cowards who live in constant fear and actually support terrorists. I believe he would think you are a traitor. Maybe loisten to the lyrics of Rocking in the Free World, you idiot.
December 19th, 2007 at 9:34 amYou may have a mostly receptive audience here on this blog, but you certainly do not represent America at large. You stand tall as a vocal representative of the worst America has to offer.
You are an ally of our enemies. It’s time you realize that, and change your ways.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 19, 2007 @ 9:29 am
You represent 24% of Americans, those who are complete morons. Why don’t you serve your country you sniveling coward and stop attacking other people’s patriotism. You are a coward and support terrorism, you are also a racist bigot. Basically you suck
December 19th, 2007 at 9:37 amFlag these morons. Multiple times. They are derailing the thread.
December 19th, 2007 at 9:45 amHey, Blue Stater… Neal Young is a Canadian (you idiot) who has lived in the USA for nearly 50 years without every making the effort to become a citizen. He used to make great music now it’s just noise.
I’ll still listen to the old stuff but he can dry up and head back to Canada with Michale J. Fox no one will miss either one of them.
Yippie-Ki-Yay Moonbatters
*bert
*
Comment by BERT CONVY — December 19, 2007 @ 9:41 am
I’m well aware that he is a Canadian, still doesn’t make Big Idiot (and you) any less of a traitor. I see we have another garbage coward idiot troll on this board, we will make you look as stupid, insipid and cowardly as all the others. And like Rush, attack they guy with Parkinson’s, classy guy you. Go back to your double wide. you POS
December 19th, 2007 at 9:48 amLefty Patriot (there’s no such thing)
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 19, 2007 @ 9:49 am
Daniel Inouye (Medal of Honor), Bob Kerry (Medal of Honor), Charlie Rangle (decorated Korean War veteran), I can keep going if you want me to. I can mention my great uncle, lifelong democrat, who was awarded the Navy Cross
Rush Limbaugh, Dick Cheney, Guilianni, Delay, Wolfowitz, you, etc. etc. all draft dodgers. You are not a patriot, you hate this country and the Constitution. I am embarrassed that you are an American, I am humiliated that you have the same passport as me (Oh, wait, you have never left the country so you don’t have one). Go back to your Klan web site and leave the real patriotic Americans to discuss things
December 19th, 2007 at 9:57 amIt’s always the democrats that are the first to cry ‘CENSER THEM’.
Comment by BERT CONVY — December 19, 2007 @ 9:53 am
Bert, it’s censor you idiot. You can’t even spell, I can see middle school is on vacation
December 19th, 2007 at 9:58 amYou need to spend some time in the company of a few WW2 veterans, before they are all gone. You might learn something from the “Greatest Generation†if you have an open mind and are willing to listen to the words of experience.
On the other hand, if you were unable to shut up and listen, and opened your pie-hole and started telling them your point of view, they might just beat the stuffing out of you.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 19, 2007 @ 10:00 am
My entire family fought in that war. Every single one of them would spit in your traitorous face. It’s laughable that you would think they would not see you for the sniveling coward that you are. You are truly one delusional fool
December 19th, 2007 at 10:06 amFlag these morons. Multiple times. They are derailing the thread.Comment by Bluedahlia
It’s always the democrats that are the first to cry ‘CENSER THEM’.
I see it on every lefty blog, anyone with an opposing opinion is at risk of censer, or banned. always they are subjected to the “trash the trolls†talk. Trolls are simply Americans that actually love America, support the troops and yes, actually pack a pair.
So ban away moonbats… soon you will be all be sitting in your basements alone, just stroking each other, while the real patriots do your heavy lifting.
Yippie-Ki-Yay girls
*bert
*
Comment by BERT CONVY — December 19, 2007 @ 9:53 am
Writing from Iraq I assume. If not, and we know you aren’t, don’t talk to anyone about packing a pair and doing heavy lifting.
December 19th, 2007 at 10:10 amBlue Stater…. Gad, those panties bunch much?
Take a breath Nancy, go to your quiet place and have a latte and a Midol… you are going to burst a vein… all those insults at Christmas, shame on you..
Yippie-Yi-Yay Blue Stater, ya big sissy
*bert
*
Comment by BERT CONVY — December 19, 2007 @ 10:12 am
Again, writing from Iraq? No, want others to fight your war, who exactly then is a sissy. Go F yourself.
December 19th, 2007 at 10:16 amComment by O. Bigfoot — December 19, 2007 @ 9:43 am
I was being sarcastic, ass h***.
December 19th, 2007 at 10:45 amSomehow I think you must have somehow missed the boat when it came to hearing of Patriotism from your WW2 era family members.
Perhaps you should have been paying more attention.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 19, 2007 @ 10:15 am
You brought up the Greatest Generation, I just responded that my family who fought in that war would be disgusted by you. Idiot
December 19th, 2007 at 10:58 amI actually know better than to even remotely believe any of what you have to say on the subject. And that knowledge comes from experience, not from theory.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 19, 2007 @ 11:13 am
Talked to my great uncles, talked to my neighbor who fought on Iwo Jima, my father’s coworker who fought on Saipan in the same company as Lee Marvin. I grew up with veterans, many of whom were active in the peace movement. These were men who fought in some of the bloodiest battles in history (Okinawa, Pelileu, The Ardennes, Saipan, Italy, Iwo Jima), not some guy who never left the US, and knew the horrors of war. They didn’t live in some John Wayne fantasy land and they understood that war should only be a last resort and not something that should be entered into on a whim and due to lies. They hated Vietnam and if they were alive they would have hated Iraq even more. And they definitely would have hated you.
December 19th, 2007 at 11:22 amComment by O. Bigfoot — December 19, 2007 @ 10:15 am
I guess it all depends on how you define “traitor,” and I don’t necessarily mean Mr. Webster’s definition.
People like you defend a government that has been one of, if not the most, secretive in the history of our nation. Items such as the invoking of Executive Privilege at every opportunity when Bush does not want to answer to any oversight. Speaking of oversight, you have Tony Snow telling us that Congress does not have any right to exercise it. And then we have Cheney declaring that he is not part of the Executive Branch, after he refuses to cooperate with the National Archives when they want to check and make sure classified information is being properly handled by the VP (something that he had no problem doing up until 2003), and going even further in attempting to abolish the group responsible for the oversight.
This is what you support. It sure as hell isn’t what the architects of the Constitution wanted, but what the hell do they know, right O. Bigfoot? Right, Mr. Bush?
Speaking of blocking investigations, we have Bush personally blocking the Office of Professional Responsibility (part of the DOJ) when they try to review the behavior of lawyers in regards to the warrantless wiretapping program, a program that Bush otherwise tells us is perfectly legal and that there were no disagreements within the administration over it. He cited security issues in blocking the investigation, but had no problem providing clearance to non-government individuals when the DOJ was part of an investigation regarding the leak of the program.
I may also mention Bush utilizing signing statements (700+ at last count, in less than 8 years) more than all previous presidents combined, signaling that he does not have to abide by certain parts of the laws that he otherwise signs.
And let’s not forget millions of deleted government e-mail messages, many of which were sent/received using a non-governmental system. I do believe this was unlawful, yet I’m sure you have no problem with this.
But I digress. The topic is torture and how we treat our enemies. Let’s see…we have Bush telling us that the world would be a better place if other countries adopt the provisions of our Military Commissions Act. Which means if one of our troops is captured, Bush signals it’s OK for the enemy to hold him or her indefinitely, and put them on trial while at the same time withholding evidence.
If there is any example of someone not giving a damn about our troops, this is it.
But was this his reaction early in his presidency when one of our spy planes made an emergency landing in China and its crew was held for what at the time could have been an indefinite period? Hell no. He demanded from the very beginning that they be freed. And when the crew finally did return to America? Bush refused to go greet them, claiming he didn’t want to interfere with their homecoming.
It is people like you, Bigfoot, who sanction the invasion of any country that might be a threat to us in the future. It is the people in this country that tell the rest of us to shut up and not criticize the President in a time of war. It, you know, emboldens the enemy. Kind of like it emboldens the enemy when a Democrat mentions bringing the troops home, but when the President or a war supporter does the same thing, apparently it doesn’t.
You talk of how safe we are from the terrorists, and how Bush has made it so. We hear from the likes of Lynn Cheney how Bush has made us so much safer from terrorism, yet when asked about the terror strikes abroad, such as in Spain and Great Britain, we are told that those aren’t important.
The president tells us that if the Iraqi government tells us to leave, we’ll leave. There’s no discussion of the terrorists following us home. There’s no discussion of the Middle East going to hell in the hands of the terrorists. There’s no discussion of the generals on the ground determining when we’ll come home. But if a member of OUR government tells Bush to bring the troops home? Oh, hang him, and hang him high, the damned terrorist lover. Democrats win Congress in 2006? Oh, a victory for the terrorists as well.
Oh shoot, I digressed again. Oh well.
December 19th, 2007 at 11:49 amI actually know better than to even remotely believe any of what you have to say on the subject. And that knowledge comes from experience, not from theory.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 19, 2007 @ 11:13 am
That is the problem I have. People like you who think they know everything, and everyone else knows nothing. Apparently all the WWII vets fall in line right behind you, because in your small world, it is inconceivable that any vet would go against our dear, perfect President.
Just like your support for the invasion of a country that was no threat to us. You can quote people who claimed without doubt that Iraq was going to hit us with a nuke and the country was just brimming with WMDs, and I can quote people who said “wait just a minute.” Guess who turned out to be right?
December 19th, 2007 at 12:03 pmAt the same time, your total dismissal of the fact that Saddam Hussein did indeed posess WMD is a very telling statement of your beliefs. We know Saddam Hussein had WMD. President Bush knew it, Congress knew it, the Clinton’s knew it, John Kerry knew it, and most of the rest of the world’s leader’s knew it. The question of whether Hussein’s Iraq posessed WMD is moot. The real question is, “Where did they go?†That question has not been sufficiently answered at this point in time.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 19, 2007 @ 1:22 pm
They didn’t go anywhere, he stopped his WMD program. Is that hard to grasp? Apparently it is…
And their “My country, right or wrong.†attitude was very apparent when others attacked our “flagâ€.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 19, 2007 @ 1:22 pm
The Japanese attacked us, the Germans declared war on us. We were attacked and we fought back against those who went to war with us. We didn’t go to war with Brazil, but going to war in Iraq is just as dumb. They never attacked us.
December 19th, 2007 at 1:55 pmI can disagree with President Bush on amnesty for illegals, on border security, on spending, but I am not going to become a simplistic, knee-jerk hater, period.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 19, 2007 @ 1:22 pm
December 19th, 2007 at 10:29 pmDon’t worry about saving my butt, pal. I wouldn’t look for help from a coward who sees threat and fear under every rock. My father fought in France, coward, by God he’d kick your craven little ass all over the landscape. You don’t own patriotism, tinyfoot. You wouldn’t know it if it crawled up your pants-leg.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 19, 2007 @ 1:22 pm
Powell and Rice said in 2001, only months before 9/11, that Saddam was not a threat to his neighbors. Wonder where they got that idea?
Powell went further and said:
He has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project conventional power against his neighbors.
.
There’s no question that they have some stockpiles of some of these sorts of weapons still under their control, but they have not been able to break out, they have not been able to come out with the capacity to deliver these kinds of systems or to actually have these kinds of systems that is much beyond where they were 10 years ago.
Powell also said the sanctions were working, and they were reconfiguring them to remain effective.
A CIA agent, Tyler Drumheller, also told Tenet the day prior to Powell’s speech to the UN security council to remove information in the speech gleaned from “Curveball” regarding WMDs because it had been discovered that he could not be trusted. Drumheller said Tenet told him he’d take care of it. The info was not removed.
Finally, Bush removed the inspectors prior to the invasion; Saddam did not kick them out. Had the inspectors been able to finish their job, we’d have found out what we now know: there were no WMDs.
And don’t give me that line that 9/11 changed everything. It didn’t change anything. We had been attacked twice by terrorists prior to Bush taking office, and 7 months after he was sworn in he held in his hands a PDB that suggested another attack was possible, yet he did NOTHING.
And then we have Bush hellbent on invading Iraq, a country that miraculously became a threat seemingly overnight. Everything that Powell had disclosed about Iraq a little over a year earlier had been thrown out the window. They were not a threat. They had been contained. They were unable to break out what WMDs they had, and they were unable to restart any WMD programs. The NIE in 2002 seemed to dismiss everything that Powell had said (apparently information also from an earlier NIE), yet as we now know, the 2002 NIE was way off base as well.
December 19th, 2007 at 11:54 pmLet me clarify that last sentence: Either the NIE Powell drew from was wrong, or the NIE in 2002 was wrong. I guess we know know.
December 19th, 2007 at 11:57 pmWhoops. “Now know.”
December 20th, 2007 at 12:05 amThe question of whether Hussein’s Iraq posessed WMD is moot.
It is not moot. It is one of the 9 reasons we invaded, remember? It is the main reason that nearly 4000 of our troops have died, and tens of thousands have been wounded.
December 21st, 2007 at 7:08 am