Prager’s Hypocrisy: Romney’s Religion Shouldn’t Matter, Ellison’s Religion ‘Undermines America’
Prager’s Hypocrisy: Romney’s Religion Shouldn’t Matter, Ellison’s Religion ‘Undermines America’
Last November, Keith Ellison became the first Muslim elected to the U.S. Congress. When he announced that he was going to take the oath of office with his hand on the Koran, right-wing talk show host Dennis Prager protested, arguing that Ellison would “embolden Islamic extremists“:
He [Ellison] should not be allowed to do so — not because of any American hostility to the Koran, but because the act undermines American civilization. […]
Insofar as a member of Congress taking an oath to serve America and uphold its values is concerned, America is interested in only one book, the Bible. If you are incapable of taking an oath on that book, don’t serve in Congress. […]
Ellison’s (taking the oath on the Koran) will embolden Islamic extremists and make new ones, as Islamists, rightly or wrongly, see the first sign of the realization of their greatest goal — the Islamicization of America.
Prager’s outrage was based on nothing but his own need to create controversy. What’s most interesting is that today — when a Republican candidate, former Massachusetts governor Mitt Romney, is under attack for his Mormon beliefs — Prager seems suddenly concerned about the role religion plays in the political choices of some Americans:
(T)he theological beliefs of a public figure should matter only when one is choosing a theological leader, never a political leader — unless those beliefs form the basis of social and moral values that one abhors. It is very important to know the theological beliefs of one’s clergyman or the head of one’s seminary, but as far as the head of one’s country is concerned, only his moral and social values matter. I would much sooner vote for an agnostic whose values I shared than for a believing Christian or Jew whose values I did not share.
Ah, Dennis, but what if Romney wants to swear-in on The Book of Mormon?
– t-dub
This post was submitted through our Blog Fellows program. Make your own contribution — and get paid for it — by clicking here.
Sort Comments By: Top Rated | Date
126 Responses to “Prager’s Hypocrisy: Romney’s Religion Shouldn’t Matter, Ellison’s Religion ‘Undermines America’”
Topic Cloud
Allow me to be the first to say it: IOKIYAR!!!
*eyeroll*
December 18th, 2007 at 1:21 pmAnd this pig’s hypocrisy shocks someone? Its always ok when the Repignofascists do it. Its never ok when normal people do. Yawn.
December 18th, 2007 at 1:25 pmThe Book of Mormon is90-= going to embolden cultists and polygamists.
December 18th, 2007 at 1:26 pmShouldn’t Mr.Prager explain that the only oaths that matter to Jews are the oaths they make to other Jews? Dennis, can you spell ‘arrogant, hypocrite traitor’?
Too bad for Dennis that America is wising up to the Zionists thugs ruining our country.
December 18th, 2007 at 1:26 pmLet’s try that again:
The Book of Mormon is going to embolden cultists and polygamists.
December 18th, 2007 at 1:27 pmComment by cold_hard_left — December 18, 2007 @ 1:26 pm
jas, you’re back!
IOKIYAD.
eh?
December 18th, 2007 at 1:28 pmComment by cold_hard_left — December 18, 2007 @ 1:26 pm
CHL is back!!!!!! When will you login under your 2 other monikers?
December 18th, 2007 at 1:28 pmComment by cold_hard_left — December 18, 2007 @ 1:29 pm
you know something chl?
i think jas and chuck agree with you!
eh?
December 18th, 2007 at 1:30 pmJohn Kerry is a Catholic, and the left didn’t and do not care.
Al Gore and Jimmy Carter are Baptist/Fundamentalist Christians, and the left didn’t and do not care.
Harry Reid is a Mormon, and the left didn’t and do not care.
OOPS!!!!! CHL just got shot down!!!!! ROFL!!!!
December 18th, 2007 at 1:30 pmThe Left supported Lieberman, a Jew, for VP, and and the left didn’t and do not care about his Jewish heritage.
December 18th, 2007 at 1:32 pmjas and/or chuck should be making a comment in 5, 4, 3, 2…..
December 18th, 2007 at 1:33 pmwhat would be really cool would be one of jas/chl/chuck’s lists. a real long filled with interesting “facts”. how about it jas, can do?
December 18th, 2007 at 1:36 pmThe left didn’t support Lieberman. That is why he left the Democrat party.
Comment by cold_hard_left — December 18, 2007 @ 1:35 pm
No, CHL/JAS/Chuck, you are wrong. The left supported him for VP, and cared that he was a Jew then or now. Fact.
December 18th, 2007 at 1:37 pmIf the left truly got behind them, they would have collectively served 4 terms, not 1.
Comment by cold_hard_left — December 18, 2007 @ 1:34 pm
Well, there is that business of stealing elections that republiscum have become espert at, but CHL thinks that’s theAmerican way. thanks for 9/11, chl, couldn’t have happened without you.
December 18th, 2007 at 1:37 pmComment by cold_hard_left — December 18, 2007 @ 1:34 pm
The left supported these men and never cared about their Religion. Oops….CHL just got shot down…again!!!!! ROFL!!!!
December 18th, 2007 at 1:38 pmThe Left supported Lieberman, a Jew, for VP, and and the left didn’t and do not care about his Jewish heritage.
Comment by Dr. Matt — December 18, 2007 @ 1:32 pm
______________
No Matt. The left didn’t support Lieberman. That is why he left the Democrat party.
Comment by cold_hard_left — December 18, 2007 @ 1:35 pm
Wow, Jason. It looks like you’re saying that the left didn’t support Gore/Lieberman in ‘00.
I know you don’t care much for historical accuracy, but do you really want to go THAT crazy? I mean, even some of your fellow trolls might recognize the lie.
December 18th, 2007 at 1:38 pmThe left didn’t support Lieberman. That is why he left the Democrat party.
Comment by cold_hard_left — December 18, 2007 @ 1:35 pm
the left stopped supporting lieberman after he started giving blowjobs to Chimpy and Bin Laden, nort before. you are truly the stupid one. it’s entertaining having you around, demonstrating the complete ignorance of the right. stick around, and thanks for 9/11.
December 18th, 2007 at 1:38 pmbtw, here’s a copy of the original post that got chl’s goat.
(a classic)
cold_flaccid_right IS Jason M. Hendler. Judge for yourself:
For those of you who missed it, here is Barack Obama drop kicking Hill’reh in the last debate:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhPxSm9Es0w
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — December 15, 2007 @ 11:12 am
————————————
Perhaps they should follow Hill’reh’s example wherein she fired a staff member that made mention of Obama’s admitted, repeated abuse of cocain.
Comment by cold_hard_left — December 17, 2007 @ 2:08 pm
Two posts, two days apart, both wildly off-topic, almost identical in their non-sequiter nature in the run of discussion, both focusing on the Clinton-Obama matchup, and both use the same idiosyncratic bastardization of Senator Clinton’s name.
Comment by ralph the wonder llama — December 18, 2007 @ 11:03 am
chl, busted!
December 18th, 2007 at 1:39 pmBill Clinton is a Baptist, won two presidential elections, and the Left never cared about his religion.
CHL just got shot down…again!!!!! ROFL!!!!
December 18th, 2007 at 1:39 pmThe Left has a big problem with Huckabee being a Fundamentalist Christian, with Romney being a Mormon, and with Giuliani being Catholic, but had no problem whatsoever with Ellison rejecting the Bible for a Koran. IOKIYAD.
Comment by cold_hard_left — December 18, 2007 @ 1:26 pm
Methinks you are inventing hypocrisy where none exists. I have seen no objection to Huckabee being a fundamentalist Christian, except to laugh at his taking phone calls from God. Oh — and his obvious exploitation of it to pander for votes. And it’s not the left who has a problem with Romney’s religion nearly as much as the evangelical right (they consider Mormons to be heretics). And out of all the criticisms for Giuliani heard here, his Catholic religion falls way, way down the list (it’s not like he’s all that devout, you know).
I have no problem with ANYBODY’S religion. I DO have a problem with anyone wishing to turn our government into a theocracy. This would be the case no matter what the religion is — evangelical Christianity, Catholism, Judaism, Islam, Mormonism, Hinduism, or Wicca.
December 18th, 2007 at 1:40 pmAh, Dennis, but what if Romney wants to swear-in on The Book of Mormon?
- - But what if Romney wants to swear-in wearing his Secret Underwear? BFD, eh? Or should I say, BVD?
December 18th, 2007 at 1:40 pmMore Americans voted for Gore/Lieberman then herr dubyah/Cheney.
CHL just got shot down…again!!!!! ROFL!!!!
December 18th, 2007 at 1:40 pmJohn Kerry has won four terms as a U.S. Senator, is a Catholic, and the left never cared about his religion.
CHL just got shot down…again!!!!! ROFL!!!!
December 18th, 2007 at 1:41 pmComment by cold_hard_left — December 18, 2007 @ 1:39 pm
jas, were you beat up by leftist princeton students on your way home from a purity ball because they didn’t agree with your views?
hmmm?
December 18th, 2007 at 1:42 pmThe simple fact is that reich-wingers perverse the true teachings of Christ. Read Matthew Chapter 6 for proof.
December 18th, 2007 at 1:43 pmCHL, you need to login into you jas account so you can recommend your own posts.
December 18th, 2007 at 1:45 pmselective morality
December 18th, 2007 at 1:46 pmThomas Jefferson must be a leftist progressive then… because it was on his copy of the Koran that Ellison took his oath of office…
You see, as long as religion remains a personal matter between the person and his or her God and even his or her Church, I have no problem. It’s when people then use that religion as a club to try and get me to change my views on matters that I’ve already made peace with myself and my God over that gets me irritated.
December 18th, 2007 at 1:47 pmComment by Dr. Matt — December 18, 2007 @ 1:45 pm
no, no he’s busy inventing a new “friend”.
Larry Edwin Craig
pretty catchy handle, huh?
December 18th, 2007 at 1:48 pm“(T)he theological beliefs of a public figure should matter only when one is choosing a theological leader, never a political leader — unless those beliefs form the basis of social and moral values that one abhors. It is very important to know the theological beliefs of one’s clergyman or the head of one’s seminary, but as far as the head of one’s country is concerned, only his moral and social values matter. I would much sooner vote for an agnostic whose values I shared than for a believing Christian or Jew whose values I did not share.”
– Dennis Prager
—————————————–
Believe it or not, I agree with this statement — at face value. I suspect, however, this is Prager-code for “Muslims have social and moral values I abhor.”
If Prager would actually READ the Quran instead of condemning it, he would see just how many parallels there are between Christianity and Islam. Unfortunately, that might defuse the self-righteous indignation that makes him so popular with narrow-minded bigots looking for some legitimacy for their views.
December 18th, 2007 at 1:50 pmCHL/JAS/CHUCK, John Kerry is a Catholic, the left doesn’t care about his religion, has been elected four times to his seat, and received more votes against any sitting president in the history of this country.
CHL just got shot down…again!!!!! ROFL!!!!
December 18th, 2007 at 1:51 pmThe other hypocrisy to note in the 2006 campaign & its aftermath was the election of a Muslim congressman. Remember the lunkheads who thought it repulsive that he swear in on a copy of the Koran? It will be neat to contrast that intolerance with the acceptance of the latter day saint.
December 18th, 2007 at 1:51 pmIt’s a free country. Everybody gets to have their faith and they should be allowed to swear on whatever book they believe in, even if it’s Webster’s Dictionary. End of story. If you can’t accept that, you don’t believe in America. If you can get the votes, you’re elected. But it is naive to believe that everyone will discount a candidate’s beliefs if they run counter to their own. Human nature is much older than the Constitution.
December 18th, 2007 at 1:52 pmChilly you’re misinterpretating something there.
We are not afrad to criticize members of our own group the way you guys are. We don’t confuse loyalty with silent obedience the way you guys do.
It’s part of that whole 3-dimensional, full color world thing that you guys also don’t agree with.
I’m sorry for it, but I don’t think we can translate all our comments to make them congruous with your one-dimensional, black and white worldview.
December 18th, 2007 at 1:52 pmComment by cold_hard_left — December 18, 2007 @ 1:49 pm
first he’s one person, then he’s another.
notice how he ignores his own lies?
December 18th, 2007 at 1:53 pm25 - MissMolly - hear, hear!! As always, spot on. ;o)
Not gonna say “right on”…feh on the “right”!!
December 18th, 2007 at 1:53 pmjas,
This above all: to thine own self be true, And it must follow, as the night the day, Thou canst not then be false to any man.
– William Shakespeare
how can we believe you pal, how can anyone believe you?
think about it.
December 18th, 2007 at 1:59 pmnotice how he ignores his own lies?
Comment by joe cantwell — December 18, 2007 @ 1:53 pm
Sadly, reich-wingers are so diluted that they actually think lies and propaganda are truths.
December 18th, 2007 at 2:01 pmYet another strawman argument by Frank M
The Book of Mormon is NOT a fundamentally Christian book and not accepted by ANY Christian denomination, and, in fact, Christian Fundamentalists believe the Book of Mormon is cultist and satanic.
December 18th, 2007 at 2:03 pmCHL…you post on TP and are clearly not a far far lefty. So all of the rest of us are, in your opinion?
December 18th, 2007 at 2:03 pmWhile the Book of Mormon is a fundamentally anti-Christian book, it’s a far cry from the satanically inspired koran.
Comment by Frank M — December 18, 2007 @ 2:01 pm
I assume you have read both? How do you know that the Quran is “satanically inspired” when the prophet Muhammed received the word directly from the angel Gabriel? And how do you know that the Book of Mormon is fundamentally “anti-Christian” when it recognizes the divinity of Jesus Christ?
Please provide some basis for your statement.
December 18th, 2007 at 2:05 pmKerry may have gotten a lot of votes from non-Progressives, but most wingnut “Progressives†(the far, far left type that post on TP) didn’t support him. Rather, they repeatedly attacked him.
Comment by cold_hard_left — December 18, 2007 @ 2:00 pm
Jason, you were trying to make the argument that progressives are religiously intolerant, right?
How does criticism of John Kerry make your point? What evidence do you have that the criticism was based on religious prejudice rather than policy differences?
December 18th, 2007 at 2:05 pmJohn Adams:
Adams signed the Treaty of Tripoli (June 7, 1797). Article 11 states:
“The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.”
From a letter to Charles Cushing (October 19, 1756):
“Twenty times in the course of my late reading, have I been upon the point of breaking out, ‘this would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it.’”
From a letter to Thomas Jefferson:
“I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved — the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!”
James Madison:
“Religion and government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
Jefferson’s “The Statute of Virginia for Religious Freedom”:
December 18th, 2007 at 2:06 pm“…The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.”
#46: To be more precise: facts can always be made to conform to the truth.
Comment by Frank M — December 18, 2007 @ 2:03 pm
Careful, Frank, you’re getting dangerously close to showing us your copy of the Right-Wing Playbook.
December 18th, 2007 at 2:06 pmSo so so sick. So sick. Somebody take care of this troglodyte. What a wretched monument of deciet. Sick sick b@stard. The flippers, the floppers of the ThugliCons know no bounds. It’s baffling that they were able to project flip-flop onto Kerry in 2004, they OWN FLIPPING. Sick sick sick I can’t take it. Let me have five minutes with this guy and just obliterate his smug deceitful…
December 18th, 2007 at 2:07 pmThugliCons are cockroaches. It goes beyond stereotyping when the facts are so redundant and plain.
You only have to look at what kind of people it inspires and what kind of acts the perform.
Comment by Frank M — December 18, 2007 @ 2:05 pm
Recommend (0) | Report Abuse
frankie, the book of mormon, the bible, the koran…?
(have you been drinking again?)
December 18th, 2007 at 2:08 pm#46: To be more precise: facts can always be made to conform to the truth.
Comment by Frank M — December 18, 2007 @ 2:03 pm
only to the ignorant wingnut base. you’ve been lied to and laughed at by your republiscum masters for decades, thanks for 9/11.
December 18th, 2007 at 2:08 pmCold hard idiot, I’ve responded to many of your ridiculous arguments on a lower thread today. I notice you’ve convieniently failed to notice.
But really now, every single democratic candidate for president is a regular church attendee. The two most progressive candidates, Kucinich and Edwards, are devote christians, one a Catholic and one a Baptist. Bush and Cheney, by comparison, rarely go to church, yet you support them. Care to explain why you support two politicians who rarely go to church if going to church is so important to you?
December 18th, 2007 at 2:08 pmYou only have to look at what kind of people it inspires and what kind of acts the perform.
Comment by Frank M — December 18, 2007 @ 2:05 pm
So… Fred Phelps is an ample demonstration of the character of the Bible in your view, huh, Frank? How about the Inquisition? The Crusades? the Salem Witch trials? The Ku Klux Klan? Eric Rudolph? Ted Haggard?
thanks for the lesson on Christianity, Frank.
December 18th, 2007 at 2:09 pmTo be more precise: facts can always be made to conform to the truth.
Comment by Frank M — December 18, 2007 @ 2:03 pm
just ask brit hume frankie.
from salon:
TUESDAY, DEC. 18, 2007 10:00 EST
Uh, Brit?
It’s never good to be the last one to arrive at an outrage party. Actually, it can be downright embarrassing: Just ask Fox News anchor Brit Hume.
On Monday, in his “Political Grapevine†segment, Hume took up the cause of the latest conservative to be oppressed by unhinged liberals, Princeton student Francisco Nava. “Conservative students and faculty at Princeton University are questioning the absence of campus and community outrage — following the beating of a student leading a morality movement at the school,†Hume said. “The New York Sun reports Francisco Nava was attacked by two men last week and told to shut up. The beating came two days after Nava received death threats by e-mail.
“Nava — who is a Mormon — wrote in the student newspaper that a school campaign to distribute free condoms on campus was a ‘tacit sponsorship of hookup sex.’ Three other members of the morally conservative Anscombe Society also received the threats, along with a conservative professor.â€
But there was a good reason for the lack of outrage. Nava — who had a history of faking threats, having done so while in high school — made the whole thing up. By Monday afternoon (we put it at no later than 1:50 p.m. Eastern, based on the time stamps at blogs covering the story), hours before Hume went on the air at 6 p.m., the campus newspaper and the conservative New York Sun were reporting that Nava had confessed to local authorities that he had faked the attack and was responsible for sending the threats.
We caught the rebroadcast of Hume’s program, which ran at 2 a.m. Eastern. The segment remained. Tuesday morning, Fox’s Web site carried an update to the print version. “Here’s a quick update on our Grapevine about The New York Sun story concerning the Princeton student who alleged he had been beaten — after coming out against the school distribution of condoms,†the update reads. “The Daily Princetonian says Francisco Nava has admitted he made up the story and fabricated e-mails threatening his life and those of other students and one professor.
“Nava reportedly confessed to police on Monday. He has been released with no charges so far. The school says its investigation is ongoing.â€
As of this post, however, Fox’s Web site still listed the segment as its top video, with the description: “Questions at Princeton University about why more people aren’t defending a student who was beaten.â€
― Alex Koppelman
eh?
December 18th, 2007 at 2:11 pmfrank m conforms to the “It’s OK If You’re A Tool” meme. the GOP will never live down its alliance with the Bin laden family, and its role in 9/11.
December 18th, 2007 at 2:12 pmFrank: “While the Book of Mormon is a fundamentally anti-Christian book, it’s a far cry from the satanically inspired koran.”
The Koran refers to Jesus as a great profit who speaks for God.
Would you call that a “satanic” position?
December 18th, 2007 at 2:13 pmYou only have to look at what kind of people it inspires and what kind of acts the perform.
Comment by Frank M — December 18, 2007 @ 2:05 pm
Good point. Herr dubyah claims to be a Christian and he invaded a country that didn’t attack us and is responsible for the murder of hundreds of thousands of people. Yes, again, good point.
December 18th, 2007 at 2:13 pmFrom the US Constitution: “The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.”
Interesting that no book, including the Bible, is mentioned as a requirement for the Oath or Affirmation. Also interesting that the same sentence has a specific prohibition of a religious test, which requiring placing one’s hand on a religious text would be.
December 18th, 2007 at 2:13 pmThe Book of Mormon claims the Devil and Jesus are brothers. So, which book is satanically derived?
December 18th, 2007 at 2:14 pm“satanically inspired koran.”
Wow, now that’s a bumper sticker if I’ve ever seen one! MY god is great but yours sucks!!!
Frank - try to undersatnd this quote:
December 18th, 2007 at 2:14 pm“We are all atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you.”
#81: You only have to look at what kind of people it inspires and what kind of acts the perform.
Comment by Frank M — December 18, 2007 @ 2:05 pm
Following this logic, the New Testament must be “satanically inspired”, because the KKK uses it to justify their racist and anti-Semitic views. They even burn crosses to underscore their beliefs.
Judging Christianity and its scriptures based on the activities of the KKK makes about as much sense as judging Islam and the Quran on the activities of a few misguided crackpot extremists.
I recommend you read the Quran. Not only will you see the similarities between it and Christianity, but you will note that there is nothing in there directing the faithful to fly airplanes into skyscrapers or blow themselves up in marketplaces.
December 18th, 2007 at 2:15 pmTry again Jack. Kucinich may have attended Catholic school as a kid, but he considers himself a student of New Age gurus, including Deepak Chopra, Matthew Fox, Neale Donald Walsch, and Wayne Dyer. Hence, the connection with Shirley MacLaine and the UFO.
Comment by cold_hard_left — December 18, 2007 @ 2:13 pm
so should all Catholics be robotic, unquestioning idiots, or just the republiscum ones?
December 18th, 2007 at 2:16 pmCHL, Kucinich attends mass regularly. Up until about 10 years ago, he was dead set against a woman’s right to choose and abortion. He is a practicing Catholic. I don’t know where you get your info, but you need to check your sources.
December 18th, 2007 at 2:16 pmhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Kucinich
Religion: Roman Catholic
CHL just got shot down…again!!!!! ROFL!!!!
December 18th, 2007 at 2:16 pmCHL/JAS/CHUCK:
John Kerry is a Catholic, the left doesn’t care about his religion and has never attacked his religion. Kerry has been elected four times to his seat and received more votes against any sitting president in the history of this country.
CHL just got shot down…again!!!!! ROFL!!!!
December 18th, 2007 at 2:17 pmCHL,
Reckognize this:
3 Do not have any other gods before Me.
December 18th, 2007 at 2:18 pm4 You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me,
*recognize
December 18th, 2007 at 2:19 pmAgain, CHL, I asked you how it is that you can complain about Dems who regularly go to church, but support Bush and Cheney who rarely go to church. Do you see an inconsistency there? How about Bush’s taped interviews with his long-time friend when he claimed to have “learned how to speak like born-agains.” Does that give you any pause? Did your pastor forget to tell you about that one?
December 18th, 2007 at 2:20 pmchl, that phrase doesn’t read anti-christian to me, just watch your vback, because christians and jews are anti-muslim. you should learn to read some day.
December 18th, 2007 at 2:20 pmComment by cold_hard_left — December 18, 2007 @ 2:13 pm
chl you’re connected to jason m. hendler, charles james napier and larry edwin craig so we know everything you write is a lie, right?
December 18th, 2007 at 2:20 pm“…didn’t support him. Rather, they repeatedly attacked him.” - chl
There’s more evidence of Righty dualism in action - apparently, one could either “support”(meaning be in 100% agreement) Kerry, or “attack”(meaning disagree 100%) him - no other alternatives.
If businesses actually ran like Righties do, their focus groups would produce somee pretty bizarre results. Luckily, Progressive thinking allows competitive and successful businesses to prosper.
December 18th, 2007 at 2:20 pmcold hard idiot: “Yes, Jack. The Koran is anti-Christian.”
Do you have trouble reading? I responded to Frank’s contention that the Koran was “satanic” not that it was anti-Christian. I agree that it is anti-Christian.
December 18th, 2007 at 2:22 pmAnd by the way, CHL, at least three quarters of our nation’s Founders were “anti-christian” so I’m not sure what point you think you’re making.
December 18th, 2007 at 2:23 pm“Luckily, Progressive thinking allows competitive and successful businesses to prosper.” Which is why the most innovative and successful businesses are in NYC and San Fran.
December 18th, 2007 at 2:23 pmCHL is searching for another tangent….perhaps a URL linking Hillary to Chinese toys?
December 18th, 2007 at 2:24 pmComment by cold_hard_left — December 18, 2007 @ 2:23 pm
Progressives turned the reich-wing majority into a reich-wing minority in 2006.
CHL just got shot down…again!!!!! ROFL!!!!
December 18th, 2007 at 2:25 pmLuckily, “Progressives†remain a very, very, small percentage of the national electorate, which helps to explain Kucinich and Dodd’s low numbers in the polls.
Comment by cold_hard_left — December 18, 2007 @ 2:23 pm
then why the overwhelming fear you show, chl? thanks for 9/11, and thanks for tanking the GOP, we’ll bury it and clean up after you,as we always do.
December 18th, 2007 at 2:26 pmPrager is a member of the United church of Hypocrites. An icon of the Roman God, Janus, with two faces, is imbedded in the altar where the pharisee worships.
December 18th, 2007 at 2:27 pmKerry may have gotten a lot of votes from non-Progressives, but most wingnut “Progressives†(the far, far left type that post on TP) didn’t support him. Rather, they repeatedly attacked him.
Comment by cold_hard_left — December 18, 2007 @ 2:00 pm
Who do you think progressives voted for if not Kerry? The Wizrd of Oz?
December 18th, 2007 at 2:28 pmYour middle school must be out for Winter (be careful not to call it Christmas) break, eh?
Comment by cold_hard_left — December 18, 2007 @ 2:27 pm
Strange question…..are you looking to pick up middle school aged kids? That makes sense considering you are a reich-winger.
December 18th, 2007 at 2:28 pmCHL,
The Koran is anti-christian just as the Ten Commandments are anti-every other religion!
It’s religion - it’s meant to separate believers from non-believers. Get a damn clue!
December 18th, 2007 at 2:28 pm98:5 The unbelievers among the People of the Book (i.e.
Christians and Jews) and the pagans shall burn for ever in the
fire of Hell. They are the vilest of all creatures. But of
all creatures those that embrace the Faith and do good works
are the noblest. God will reward them with the gardens of
Eden, gardens watered by running streams, where they shall
dwell for ever.
Comment by cold_hard_left — December 18, 2007 @ 2:25 pm
nice misinterpretation, chl, too bad your homeschooling stopped before you learned the meanings of English words. Is that parenthetical in all the editions of the Quoran, or did you just make it up, or lift it from some other wingnut dumbass?
December 18th, 2007 at 2:28 pmMatt: Your middle school must be out for Winter (be careful not to call it Christmas) break, eh?
Comment by cold_hard_left — December 18, 2007 @ 2:27 pm
jas, your frustration is showing again.
December 18th, 2007 at 2:28 pm“The Koran is anti-Christian.”
Comment by cold_hard_left — December 18, 2007 @ 2:16 pm
It’s “anti-Christian” only in that it states that Jesus was not the Son of God, and not divine. However, it DOES validate the Virgin Birth as one of God’s greatest miracles, and relates that Jesus was one of God’s greatest prophets. According the the Quran, Jesus even spoke from the manger as an infant, proclaiming his status as God’s prophet.
This doesn’t make the text “satanic”.
December 18th, 2007 at 2:29 pmProgressives that embolden them. Look in the mirror and thank yourself Lefty.
Comment by cold_hard_left — December 18, 2007 @ 2:28 pm
dubyah is a progressive now? He was the one that had the intell of their plans and he embolden them and didn’t stop the attacks.
December 18th, 2007 at 2:29 pm9/11 was brought to you by islamo-fascists and the Progressives that embolden them. Look in the mirror and thank yourself Lefty.
Comment by cold_hard_left — December 18, 2007 @ 2:28 pm
9/11 was only successful because of you and yours, chl, thanks for the massive failure that has put you and your party in the hopper. a real president would have stopped those 19 morons, but they outsmarted Georgie and Condi, as any 5-year-old could. The silver lining is that you have been proven incapable of defending the American homeland, which we all knew long before that massive failure. Bush is good at fishing and lying, and little else, but that’s enough for cowards like you.
December 18th, 2007 at 2:32 pmI would vote for anyone who professed (well a reasonable person at least) a total lack of religion first, means they have common sense.
Buck Fush
December 18th, 2007 at 2:33 pmchl/jas is frantically searching drudge and drugbaugh for his next rant.
December 18th, 2007 at 2:33 pmchl/jas is frantically searching drudge and drugbaugh for his next rant.
Comment by Dr. Matt — December 18, 2007 @ 2:33 pm
that certainly explains the lack of truth, fact and common sense his posts display. as for his hatred of America, he’s the one that has to explain that.
December 18th, 2007 at 2:34 pmCHL - by your standards, the Bible is anti-Muslim. So what?
Every single stupid religion proclaims itself the ONLY right and true Faith.
Give up that sophomoric shit. For every stance, there is some stupid bible verse (or dozens) to “prove” it.
December 18th, 2007 at 2:35 pmcold hard idiot: “How about this part of the Koran, Jack? Does this sound anti-Christian to you?”
One more time for someone who obviously has trouble reading english. I agree that the Koran is anti-christian. What the hell is your point? So were our nation’s founders.
December 18th, 2007 at 2:35 pmLefties are a jihadi’s worst nightmare (bein’ all icky and secular and stuff like we do).
Which makes jihadis and righties First Cousins.
Kissing cousins, in the case of our Cheerleader Prince.
December 18th, 2007 at 2:35 pmRight, and you conveniently forget that Bush and his team DID NOTHING after the August security briefing paper entitled, “”Bin Laden Determined to Strike In U.S.”
Yes, CHL, thank the Bush administration for moving heaven and earth to stop this attack.
December 18th, 2007 at 2:36 pm“We are all atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you.â€
Comment by Stupid Git — December 18, 2007 @ 2:14 pm
A great quote from a great book. I would love to have the next President sworn in on a stack of “End of Faith”.
December 18th, 2007 at 2:36 pmcold hard bible-boy: “9/11 was brought to you by islamo-fascists and the Progressives that embolden them.”
The Saudi royalty which nurtures militant muslims are not what anyone would call progressives. They are, however, friends of the Bush family.
December 18th, 2007 at 2:38 pmHey bible-boy, here’s the Reverend Donald Bird in an 1831 sermon preached to his Pentacostal “flock”:
“The founders of our nation were nearly all Infidels, and that of the presidents who had thus far been elected [Washington; Adams; Jefferson; Madison; Monroe; Adams; Jackson] not a one had professed a belief in Christianity….
    “Among all our presidents from Washington downward, not one was a professor of religion, at least not of more than Unitarianism.”
Your thoughts?
December 18th, 2007 at 2:42 pmlooks like chl ran away and hid from the avalanche of facts presented.
December 18th, 2007 at 2:43 pmYour thoughts?
Comment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper — December 18, 2007 @ 2:42 pm
he’s busy searching for them on conservopedia
December 18th, 2007 at 2:44 pmLefty, I think after the next election, bible-boy is going to have himself a good cry.
December 18th, 2007 at 2:44 pmRet. Col. Jack Ripper
December 18th, 2007 at 2:45 pmI just want to tell you that I read all your posts and I learn much from them. You have been an asset to TP - thanks.
Do you ever hear Thom Hartmann on the radio? He is thoughtful and intelligent, able to make rational arguments in debate.
lefty: “he’s busy searching for them on conservopedia”
My favorite fun fact on conservopedia: most of the “most popular” issues for which people search on the site have to do with gay sex.
December 18th, 2007 at 2:46 pmThanks, Marie. I get a lot of information from Thom Hartman. He’s an incredible source. I’ve read a number of his books and I highly recommend listening to his program. I’ve learned more from Hartman than any other single liberal in the media. He’s brilliant.
December 18th, 2007 at 2:48 pmAll religions use faith - and devotion to that faith - as their reasons, motivations, and weapons. But in the end, it is just faith. Faith that your God cannot beat up my God. Faith that my rumor is stronger than your rumor.
For humanity’s sake, can we please stop with the talk about which faith is greater than the rest? If there is truly a God - we would have been given proof by now.
Since we don’t know anything about this subject - in fact, we cannot judge anybody else using faith as a benchmark or test.
BTW, the Koran is printed in two versions - the original one and the one that the reich wingers have developed to let themselves send other peoples children into war.
December 18th, 2007 at 2:50 pmI actually have no frikkin idea who this Prager moron is.
Lucky me.
December 18th, 2007 at 2:53 pmStratman: “For humanity’s sake, can we please stop with the talk about which faith is greater than the rest?”
As a Strat guy, I’m sure you appreciate Frank Zappa:
Foolish rules of ancient date,
December 18th, 2007 at 2:55 pmDesigned to make you all feel great
While you bend, fold and mutilate
Those unbelievers in the neighboring state.
Wiki puts most of the modern Pentecostal movement in the U.S. toward the end of nineteenth and beginning of the twentieth century.
You don’t mind posting a reference for your quote, do you Col?
December 18th, 2007 at 2:56 pmHere you go bitblt:
The Reverend Doctor Bird Wilson, an Episcopal minister in Albany, New York, in a sermon preached in October, 1831, first sentence quoted in John E Remsberg, “Six Historic Americans,” second sentence quoted in Paul F Boller, George Washington & Religion, pp. 14-15
December 18th, 2007 at 2:59 pmSorry, I did post Pentecostal. I should have said Episcopol.
December 18th, 2007 at 3:01 pm118: Comment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper
You are a smart blogger. I figured you would bring something interesting to the discussion. Zappa’s words were true then, and they are true today.
December 18th, 2007 at 3:01 pmThanks!
http://www.infidels.org/ library/ historical/ john_remsburg/ six_historic_americans/
The Secular Web is operated by the Internet Infidels, Inc., a nonprofit educational organization dedicated to defending and promoting a naturalistic worldview on the Internet.
I see it comes with an agenda.
December 18th, 2007 at 3:07 pmThanks for the link bitblt, this site will have to go on the Favorites list.
December 18th, 2007 at 3:15 pmHaving lived in “Zion” — Salt Lake City, the “Happy Valley” — back in the ’70’s and part of the ’80’s, the thought of a Mormon POTUS scares the bejezus out of me.
“Alice laughed: “There’s no use trying,” she said; “one can’t believe impossible things.”
“I daresay you haven’t had much practice,” said the Queen. “When I was younger, I always did it for half an hour a day. Why, sometimes I’ve believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.”
Alice in Wonderland.
Check your critical intellect at the door and accept the hive-mind, and you too could be a “true believer”.
December 18th, 2007 at 3:28 pmSo “the Left” is anti-Christian/Jewish?
Well, that would explain why the Democratic members of Congress are all atheists….
Yep, not a Christian or Jew among the whole lot.
December 18th, 2007 at 3:33 pmI see it comes with an agenda.
Comment by bitblt — December 18, 2007 @ 3:07 pm
religious freedom is a rather important agenda for real Americans. how about joining us, instead of the nutcases? or is it too late?
December 18th, 2007 at 3:36 pmbitblt: “I see it comes with an agenda.”
Of course it comes with an agenda. What’s your point. Do christian sites not come with an agenda? Six Histories agenda appears to be to argue that we live in a secular society in spite of the revisionist ravings of christians who call this a “christian nation.” Besides, does the fact that there is an agenda change the nature of the quotation? It’s a fact that most of our nation’s Founders had a profound distrust of organized religion. If I have an agenda, does it change that fact?
December 18th, 2007 at 4:09 pmBesides, bitblt, you don’t have to go to that site to find evidence of the nation’s founders feelings about christianity. It’s all over the place.
James Madison: “During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution.”
Thomas Jefferson: “I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature.”
John Adams: “”But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed.”
You won’t find Madison or Adams on that site. They’re generally thought of as more conservative founders.
December 18th, 2007 at 4:16 pmI see it comes with an agenda.
Comment by bitblt — December 18, 2007 @ 3:07 pm
you do?
December 18th, 2007 at 4:36 pmThanks, Stratman. That Zappa passage is from a song called “Dumb all over” from an album called “You can’t do that on stage anymore, Vol I” When Zappa found out he was dying, one of the things he did was go back and compile many of what he felt were his bands’ greatest live performances. I think there are three of the “You can’t…” series, but I just have the first two. I can’t listen to him much, but once in a while, he’s priceless.
December 18th, 2007 at 4:37 pmI can’t listen to him much, but once in a while, he’s priceless.
Comment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper
When I was younger, a friend played an early Zappa record for me. I thought the record player had broken (you remember record players, right?) The music was - to me - not very musical. As I grew older, the noise Frank was making began to make much more sense. I miss his sense of adventure.
Clapton recorded a bunch of stuff at Zappa’s house one night a long time ago. Clapton thought a lot of Zappa.
December 18th, 2007 at 4:43 pmWhat a crack-up bitblt is. He’s deeply troubled that someone might have an “agenda” and yet in the past he has claimed to know the mind of god.
bitblt in June of this year: “The creator didn’t design humans to be homosexual.”
See, he even knows the “creator’s” design parameters. What a genius!
December 18th, 2007 at 4:44 pm#132 Clapton was probably in awe of Zappa’s ability on the guitar. In my opinion he was head and shoulders above Clapton as a player, definately as a songwriter/arrainger and developer of talent.
December 18th, 2007 at 4:57 pmStrat & Col,
Frank Zappa…thanks for bringing him up. I saw his show at the Shrine convention center in L.A. many years back. Lowell George was still on guitar.
I was only 18 at the time & probably wasn’t ready for Zappa, although I had the album ‘Freak Out’.
Remember the cut ‘It Can’t Happen Here’? Prescient? Visionary? I’m not sure, but that song means more today than it ever has.
Folks, if you want to hear a vision of 2008 America written in 1967, google Zappa & ‘It Can’t Happen Here’.
We miss you, Frank.
December 18th, 2007 at 4:58 pmI am gross and perverted
I’m obsessed and deranged
I have existed for years
And very little has changed..
I am the slime oozing out of your TV set.
That’s still relevant, especially for those who can’t block Faux News.
December 18th, 2007 at 5:00 pmYou will obey me while I lead you,
And eat the garbage that I feed you
Until the day that we don’t need you
Don’t go for help, no one will heed you.
Your mind is totally controlled
December 18th, 2007 at 5:09 pmIt has been stuffed into my mold
And you will do what you are told
Until the rights to you are sold.
Damn, you’re good, is that from memory?
December 18th, 2007 at 5:16 pmCHL, Kucinich attends mass regularly. Up until about 10 years ago, he was dead set against a woman’s right to choose and abortion. He is a practicing Catholic. I don’t know where you get your info, but you need to check your sources.
Comment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper — December 18, 2007 @ 2:16 pm
He gets his info from the RNC. In his mind, if his RNC masters tell him it is true, then it must be true. Like their lord and master Bush, all Republiscum trolls are not curious and can’t be bothered to do research to see if something they are being fed is actually true or another lie.
December 18th, 2007 at 5:53 pmThanks nanlichi. Yes, that was from memory. Another part I always remember is this part of the tune:
I may be vile and pernicious
but you can’t look away
I make you think I’m delicious
With the stuff that I say.
I’m the best you can get
December 18th, 2007 at 6:53 pmHave you guessed me yet?
I’m the slime oozin’ out of your TV set.
“When Zappa found out he was dying, one of the things he did was go back and compile many of what he felt were his bands’ greatest live performances. I think there are three of the “You can’t…†series, but I just have the first two. I can’t listen to him much, but once in a while, he’s priceless.”
Comment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper
Is that the one on which Dweezil plays a solo? He’s pretty damn good in his own right.
December 18th, 2007 at 9:00 pmI wrote in my original column that thinkprogress cited:
“Nor has one Mormon official demanded to put his hand on the Book of Mormon.â€
I opposed substituting the Bible with any other book, holy or secular.
Moreover in my very next column, I wrote:
“I would vote for any Muslim, Christian, Buddhist, Mormon, atheist, Jew, Zoroastrian, Hindu, Wiccan, Confucian, Taoist or combination thereof whose social values I share. Conversely, I would not vote for a fellow Jew whose social values I did not share. I want people of every faith and of no faith who affirm the values I affirm to enter political life.â€
They ignored almost everything I wrote to fabricate an inconsistency.
All the best,
Dennis Prager
December 20th, 2007 at 8:16 amMitt Romney has said that he will ‘put his hand on the Bible†and take the oath of office. My question is simple, which Bible is he going to put his hand on?
I think it is a fair question - he is taking an oath to defend you and me, your children and my grandchildren.
- the fireside post.
December 20th, 2007 at 12:04 pm