ThinkFast: December 20, 2007
ThinkFast: December 20, 2007
President Bush will hold a year-end press conference this morning at 10 AM EST. “The president will talk about the good, bad and the unfinished when it comes to legislation,” White House press secretary Dana Perino said.
“The first Democratic-led Congress in a dozen years limped out of Washington last night with a lengthy list of accomplishments,” but failed “to address the central issues that swept them to power.”
The CIA agreed yesterday “to make documents related to the destruction of interrogation videotapes available to the House Intelligence Committee and to allow the agency’s top lawyer, John Rizzo, to testify about the matter.” It is unclear whether Jose Rodriguez, who ordered the destruction, will testify.
Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) plans to keep the Senate in a pro forma session over the holiday recess in order to block President Bush’s controversial recess appointments. “Reid’s decision came after an afternoon of private negotiations with the White House” to reach a deal didn’t pan out.
The Senate yesterday confirmed Julie Myers as head of Immigration and Customs Enforcement, two years after President Bush first appointed her. Myers most recently came under fire for awarding “Most Original Costume” to an employee who dressed in a racially offensive Halloween costume.
Forty-one percent of the al Qaeda fighters in Iraq were Saudi nationals, according to a West Point study. Libyan nationals accounted for the second largest group with about 19 percent of the total, “followed by Syrians and Yemenis each at 8 percent, Algerians with 7 percent and Moroccans at 6 percent.”
A McClatchy analysis found that “veterans coming home from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan with debilitating mental ailments are discovering that their disability payments from the government vary widely depending on where they live.” Many veterans “could lose tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars in benefits over their lifetimes.”
“A House task force yesterday recommended creating an independent Office of Congressional Ethics that would have the power to initiate reviews of lawmakers’ behavior. The new office, whose creation requires the approval of the full House,” would “be the first in either chamber to allow an outside body of nonmembers to examine alleged ethical misdeeds.”
“Teenagers who have had formal sex education are far more likely to put off having sex, contradicting earlier studies on the effectiveness of such programs,” a new report in the Journal of Adolescent Health said yesterday. “Sex education seems to be working,” said Trisha Mueller, an epidemiologist with the CDC who led the study.
And finally: When Steve Webb, a member of Britain’s Parliament, tried to log on to his Facebook account on Monday, he “received a message saying his account had been disabled following complaints he didn’t really exist.” Webb, “one of the keenest promoters of online networking,” has around 2,500 Facebook friends. He sent Facebook “an email asking what the problem was and got a response a day later saying they had concluded that my profile was a fake,” said Webb. His account was reactivated within 36 hours.
What did we miss? Let us know in the comments section.
41 percent of the al Qaeda fighters in Iraq were Saudi nationals, according to a West Point study.
This story is a little confusing - they should clarify that the study is only talking about foreign AQI fighters, not native ones. What percentage aree Iraqi nationals?
December 20th, 2007 at 9:05 amThe president will talk about the good, bad and the unfinished when it comes to legislation,†White House press secretary Dana Perino said.
Dana Purina talking about the good, the bad & the ugly…well, I guess they do have a lot to review, particularly ‘the ugly’.
Bush will blame the Democrat’s majority for not getting the job done while completely ignoring the obstructionist mission his Party has been proscribed to do.
I’d like to see a global opinion poll on the Bush administration. What do you suppose the approval rating would be?
25%?
15%?
Less than 10%?
December 20th, 2007 at 9:06 amThere is only one thing left for bush to do….
R E S I G N !
December 20th, 2007 at 9:06 amR E S I G N !
Comment by Fan of Man — December 20, 2007 @ 9:06 am
It’d be the best Christmas/Hannukah/Eid al Adha/Diwali/Kwanzaa/Solistice present ever!
December 20th, 2007 at 9:08 amCaption Contest!
Mr. P: “What are those rulers for, Sister?”
Nun: “Hold out your knuckles, Mr. President - we’ll show you”
December 20th, 2007 at 9:11 amPresident Bush will hold a year-end press conference this morning at 10 AM EST. “The president will talk about the good, bad and the unfinished when it comes to legislation,†White House press secretary Dana Perino said.
With Congress safely out of town, the President will mount the bully pulpit in an attempt to blame them for everything that has and hasn’t happened. What will be amazing to watch is how the “Democrat Congress” will also somehow be responsible for the previous six years of incompentent leadership .
December 20th, 2007 at 9:13 amThe Senate yesterday confirmed Julie Myers as head of Immigration and Customs Enforcement, two years after President Bush first appointed her. Myers most recently came under fire for awarding “Most Original Costume†to an employee who dressed in a racially offensive Halloween costume.
its ok just as long as she doesnt answer anything regarding waterboarding mexicans.
December 20th, 2007 at 9:14 amI think what this year has shown is that the Democratic Party has revealed itself to be spineless and out of touch with not only the majority of its own party members, but the majority of the American People.
Rather than stand up for the people, it has chosed to kowtow to a President who is setting historic lows in popularity, not just in this county but worldwide.
It seems like there is no longer a two-party system in American Politics… just Neo-cons and Neo-cons Lite.
I fear for my country.
December 20th, 2007 at 9:14 am“One in five Iraqi refugees in Syria has been tortured or suffered from other violence, and more than a third fled their homeland between July and October, at the height of the U.S. troop buildup that was intended to quell sectarian violence in Baghdad, preliminary data from a new United Nations study show.
“The survey also found that the refugee population is highly educated — nearly a third have university degrees, including master’s and doctorates — and that many refugees are only weeks away from exhausting their savings.
“The survey, which the IPSOS market research firm conducted in October and November, is the most comprehensive study to date of the 1.5 million Iraqis who’ve sought safety in Syria from the sectarian violence at home. The results are based on interviews with 754 refugees, who were asked detailed questions that ranged from whether they’d been hit by grenades to how they treat their children’s illnesses. Full results are expected in early January.
December 20th, 2007 at 9:15 am…
“Of the refugees polled, 78 percent said they’d come from Baghdad, which has been the focus of military operations since the U.S. troop buildup began last February. Thirty-five percent said they’d fled between July and October, when U.S. troop strength peaked. Another 30 percent said they’d fled to Syria last year, as violence between Sunni and Shiite Muslims intensified.”
…
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/iraq/story/23159.html
Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) plans to keep the Senate in a pro forma session over the holiday recess in order to block President Bush’s controversial recess appointments.
At least our ‘other Mormon’ is protecting democracy during the Holidays. Hard to say how many flunkies & political appointees we’d see with new jobs by the time Congress gets back from Holiday break if Harry didn’t take action.
Sad, but necessary to thwart dictatorial activities by Brusch.
December 20th, 2007 at 9:16 amCaption:
“God has sent us to impose penance for your sins, Mr. President. Sister Mary Andrea Gigante in the back here, will be overseeing that effort. Shall we begin?”
(Actually, I think they smuggled in Michael Clarke Duncan in a veil to administer the punishment.)
December 20th, 2007 at 9:16 am“Teenagers who have had formal sex education are far more likely to put off having sex, contradicting earlier studies on the effectiveness of such programs,†a new report in the Journal of Adolescent Health said yesterday. “Sex education seems to be working,†said Trisha Mueller, an epidemiologist with the CDC who led the study.
Somehow, “Jesus will be watching you if you shag” doesn’t seem to be much of a deterrent. However, that nasty VD film they used to show in Health class was another story… something about full-color lesions will give you pause.
December 20th, 2007 at 9:18 ambut failed “to address the central issues that swept them to power.â€
It is not just the Democrats who bear the blame for this. Without the Republiscum Obstructionists, we would have made headway in getting our soldiers home. I am royally sick and tired of the MSM blaming the Democrats for everything and giving the Republiscums a free pass. “Liberal Media” my a$$.
December 20th, 2007 at 9:18 amCaption:
Mary Kathryn Gallagher talks to Bush.
December 20th, 2007 at 9:19 amThe CIA agreed yesterday “to make documents related to the destruction of interrogation videotapes available to the House Intelligence Committee and to allow the agency’s top lawyer, John Rizzo, to testify about the matter.â€
Well, it’s a start, but not enough. They need to release the documents to the full House and these guys need to testify to the full House. Just giving documents to the House Intelligence Committee and having them testify in front of the committee will accomplish nothing. The documents and testimony will be declared “state secrets” (you know, those things that only the Bush administration is allowed to leak) and we will never know what happened.
December 20th, 2007 at 9:21 am“Reid’s decision came after an afternoon of private negotiations with the White House†to reach a deal didn’t pan out.
I find it absolutely disgusting that they even try to “deal” with Bully Boy Bush. It’s time that the Democrats start playing hard ball, like the Republiscums do. They are certainly not making any points with the public by being so acquiescent to the Bush Administration.
December 20th, 2007 at 9:22 amSarkozy the blessed
Sarkozy visits Vatican
December 20th, 2007 at 9:24 amMajority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) plans to keep the Senate in a pro forma session over the holiday recess in order to block President Bush’s controversial recess appointments. “Reid’s decision came after an afternoon of private negotiations with the White House†to reach a deal didn’t pan out.
Exhibit “A” on why Reid’s satnd doesn’t mean a thing:
December 20th, 2007 at 9:24 amThe Senate yesterday confirmed Julie Myers as head of Immigration and Customs Enforcement, two years after President Bush first appointed her. Myers most recently came under fire for awarding “Most Original Costume†to an employee who dressed in a racially offensive Halloween costume.
“stand” I meant!
December 20th, 2007 at 9:25 amMany veterans “could lose tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars in benefits over their lifetimes.â€
This is how we show our respect to the men and women who fight our wars for us. Way to go Bush and his Republiscum brethren. The dirty little secret is that they rate many people 29% disabled because if they rate them 30% disabled they will be eligible for lifetime health benefits. Way to screw those who laid their lives on the line for this country. But, then, Bush needs all that money to funnel to his contractor friends, so this doesn’t surprise me a bit.
December 20th, 2007 at 9:25 amThe new office, whose creation requires the approval of the full House,†would “be the first in either chamber to allow an outside body of nonmembers to examine alleged ethical misdeeds.â€
It’s about time something like this happens. Allowing them to investigate themselves is only going to have one outcome, and that is the outcome that benefits the members in the House and Senate.
December 20th, 2007 at 9:27 am“A House task force yesterday recommended creating an independent Office of Congressional Ethics that would have the power to initiate reviews of lawmakers’ behavior. The new office, whose creation requires the approval of the full House,†would “be the first in either chamber to allow an outside body of nonmembers to examine alleged ethical misdeeds.â€
And who would appoint the members of this Office of Congressional Ethics? And how long would it take before the Office of Congressional Ethics needed their own oversight board once the office gets politicized? Six days? Six weeks? I doubt six months!
December 20th, 2007 at 9:29 amThe new office, whose creation requires the approval of the full House,†would “be the first in either chamber to allow an outside body of nonmembers to examine alleged ethical misdeeds.â€
It’s about time something like this happens. Allowing them to investigate themselves is only going to have one outcome, and that is the outcome that benefits the members in the House and Senate.
I couldn’t agree more, Bilbo. Remember that Republican ethics investigation by Hasturd & Co. regarding Mark Foley? Yeah, that was real effective! Sit on an issue, meet behind closed doors, withhold any real information and finally, under pressure, make a weak decision.
Yup, those Righties sure are good at investigating themselves.
December 20th, 2007 at 9:31 am/snark
“Sex education seems to be working,†said Trisha Mueller, an epidemiologist with the CDC who led the study.
———————————————–
Well, duh. Give teenagers factual information from a neutral source with no political agenda or judgments, combined with moral values from their parents and clergy, and it’s quite possible they can make sensible decisions on their own.
Treating them like mushrooms — keeping them in the dark and shoveling sh!t at them doesn’t work as well.
December 20th, 2007 at 9:33 am# 23 I agree 100%
December 20th, 2007 at 9:34 amThe president would much more enjoy a “stocking stuffer” from his BFF Jeff Gannon!
Raynman: The two party system is gone, that’s become apparent with this new congress. The combination of the Obstructionist Rethugs and the Spineless Democrats has resulted in gridlock in Congress at the expense of The People.
It’s becoming clear that we need a PEOPLE’S PARTY now to represent us. And with this Congress slinking out of Washington with their tail between their legs coupled with Herr Bush blaming them for the misdeeds of his own party, people are finally recognizing that they have absolutely NO representation in this government of ours.
The best Christmas gift, of course, would be for Bush, The Unpopular, to step down; short of that, things will not improve for The People or this Country as we descend even further down into the black abyss of ignorance, lawlessness, and total chaos. It goes without saying that The People’s sense of patriotism is flagging at best and absent at worst.
Our only hope for representation at this point is the emergence of a third party, The People’s Party which will spring from the Independent/Unaffiliated number of voters - now comprising 36% of the population. If an individual with the provenance and stature of Al Gore were to run as an Independent, there’s little doubt that he would win by a landslide and accomplish two things: Become the greatest president this country has ever had and bring the power back to the People.
There’s small rumblings about the number of independents pre-primary since, in most states, I’s can’t vote in the primaries but watch out for the tsunami which will take place following the primaries - the rising number of Independent voters will soar (those who remained affiliated ONLY to vote in the primaries and then switch to I). THIS IS THE ONLY CARD WE HAVE LEFT IN OUR DECK, PEOPLE.
The new majority in Congress has failed the people abysmally and will continue to do so unless/until they develop some vertebrae or move out of the way for the people’s wishes to be fulfilled. So far, they’re batting zero.
December 20th, 2007 at 9:36 am“Forty-one percent of the al Qaeda fighters in Iraq were Saudi nationals, according to a West Point study.”
——————————————-
And most of the 9/11 terrorists were Saudi nationals. So naturally we’re fighting terrorism in Iraq. Why does this make sense to anyone?
And what is Saudi Arabia doing about quelling terrorism among their own?
December 20th, 2007 at 9:38 am28 Comment by Veritas — December 20, 2007 @ 9:36 am
You live by the sword and die by it. Perot? Nader? They accomplished nothing but getting the party, they more deeply opposed, elected.
December 20th, 2007 at 9:40 amI take it back (partially) - yes, Harry Reid at least has the chutzpah and presence of mind to keep congress in a pro forma session to eliminate more unqualified nutjobs Bush would surely appoint through the back door during the holiday break.
Actually, I have to pinch myself to see if I’m not dreaming here: The fact that Congress cannot trust Bush to make appropriate, qualified appointments to high levels in this government and must remain in pro forma session is actually quite appalling. How far we have descended already!!
How much more are we, as a people, going to tolerate? Already, we have sitting officials who are quilty of not one but MULTIPLE high crimes and misdemeanors and they are still sitting in office, making a mockery of the people who put them there as well as the rule of law in this country. When will each of us aver that we’ve ‘HAD ENOUGH’ and take action?
http://www.wexlerforcongress.com has a petition for you to sign if you’ve “had enough” and want to call for the impeachment of Cheney. Once impeachment hearings are begun, the dirt will also come out on Bush which will segue right into his own impeachment. This IS the beginning of a way out of this guagmire for Americans. Give yourself this Christmas gift today!
http://www.wexlerforcongress.com
December 20th, 2007 at 9:45 amTP,
70 Billion for Iraq and Afghanistan without meaniful constraints. You’d better mention it (even though it is UTTERLY DISAPPOINTING). If you ignore our failures, you can’t really claim to be dealing with the whole situation.
Please give us a thread to express our anger with our leaders.
December 20th, 2007 at 9:46 amJoneser, Joneser: How little you know (or are willing to acknowledge) when it’s clear that you are part of the problem of partisan politics!! How blind can you be? This is a post-nader time in which we live. This is not about a third party candidate of such little stature or support as Ralph Nader or Ross Perot. This is about l/3 of our population angry and disgusted enouch to disaffiliate with a two party system which is broken - this is not about some fragmented segment of the population desiring change - this is about 36% of americans (Reg. Repubs 28%) who have eclipsed the membership of one of our two main parties.
You can talk Nader and Perot till the cows come home and most democrats really don’t like to recognize the obvious - that the number of Registered I’s now almost equals the number of Registered Democrats…..so, essentially, if a great individual like Al Gore were to run as an Independent, I wonder how many dyed-in-the-wool democrats would quickly jump ship and vote for Gore??
It’s going to happen - mark my words.
December 20th, 2007 at 9:49 amJoneser: What does it say when 90% of Registered I’s were former Democrats? If any of the Dem candidates were truly representing the people at this point (and with the exception of John Edwards) they are not - then you do the math. They’d have 65% (MOL) of the people in thier pocket at this point.
December 20th, 2007 at 9:51 amdid you donate to “The World Can’t Wait” group as well?
December 20th, 2007 at 9:51 amWe have had ‘TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION’ out the whazoo for 7 very long years - we certainly do not need another “establishment candidate” to continue to screw the american people for another 4 years, do we?
December 20th, 2007 at 9:51 amJoneser: Did you donate to AIPAC?
December 20th, 2007 at 9:52 amThis story is a little confusing - they should clarify that the study is only talking about foreign AQI fighters, not native ones. What percentage aree Iraqi nationals?
I’m guessing comparatively few. From all reports, AQI is deeply unpopular among Iraqis. The study’s results are indeed unclear: if the percentages cited are of foreign fighters, there’s no info. But if it’s the nationalities of all AQI fighters of that 606 prisoner sample, then it’s tops 9%.
That said, numerous military sources have stated that AQI is only 5%-10% of the insurgency.
December 20th, 2007 at 9:52 amWhat did we miss?
The primary weapon carried by most soldiers into battle in Iraq and Afghanistan performed the worst in a recent series of tests designed to see how it stacked up against three other top carbines in sandy environments.
After firing 6,000 rounds through ten M4s in a dust chamber at the Army’s Aberdeen test center in Maryland this fall, the weapons experienced a total of 863 minor stoppages and 19 that would have required the armorer to fix the problem. Stacked up against the M4 during the side-by-side tests were two other weapons popular with special operations forces, including the Heckler and Koch 416 and the FN USA Special Operations Combat Assault Rifle, or Mk16.
More at Military.com http://www.military.com/ NewsContent/ 0,13319,158468,00.html?ESRC=army.nl
December 20th, 2007 at 9:52 amAmazingly, Hillalry attended the last AIPAC meeting, didn’t she?
December 20th, 2007 at 9:52 amVeritas,
I believe the Joneser is hear to fling feces, not rationally discuss differences in opinions.
I may be wrong; we’ll see.
December 20th, 2007 at 9:53 amJohn Edwards?
December 20th, 2007 at 9:53 amAre you serious? If ever there was a guy in the Democratic Party that drives me nuts its that guy! At anyrate, those 90% who regestered independent are still going to vote for the Democratic Candidate… or should I say at least 80% of that 90%. If you want to change a party you have to change it from within. It has been done before.
A McClatchy analysis found that “veterans coming home from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan with debilitating mental ailments are discovering that their disability payments from the government vary widely depending on where they live.â€
——————————————-
Reading the linked article, I inferred that once an amount for disability compensation is set, it’s locked in for life. Huh??? This makes no sense.
If someone’s brain has been fried as a direct result of service to this country, this country must support them for the rest of their lives if they are too disabled to work or can only work at the most menial of jobs. Yes — compensation can reasonably vary based upon where the veteran lives. San Francisco has a much higher cost of living than Topeka. And reasonable cost of living adjustments should be made so that the veteran isn’t expected to live on today’s amount fifty years from now (unless, of course, there has been no inflation in that time).
I don’t object to payments set according to geographic area. I DO object to the “locked in” aspect — and I sure hope I’m wrong in interpreting the article that way.
December 20th, 2007 at 9:54 amThe “unfettered” “unconditional” approval by the Democrats in Congress of another vulgar amount of money for killing people is absolutely the last straw for the democrats in congress.
December 20th, 2007 at 9:54 amJones: There’s a first time for everything and it’s clear that the two party system is antiquated and irrelevant - not to mention totally corrupted.
December 20th, 2007 at 9:55 amFling feces?
December 20th, 2007 at 9:55 amLOL… is it me or is it ironic that here on “TP”, the first people to mention feces is the person who doesn’t like what you have to say. I am discussing an issue, sans name calling and insults, or the obsessions with fecal matter around here.
Zimzone: You’re right. Joneser has been here before and is a known troll. I’ve broken my cardinal rule in not engaging direct dialogue with fecal-covered trolls. Mea culpa! Hope your day is going well, Zim!
December 20th, 2007 at 9:56 amI guess the only “bright spot” for the next two weeks is that we might be spared the ongoing litany of Bush scandals over the Holidays! Then again, maybe with a little bubbly, the whistleblowers will develop more spine and begin signing away.
December 20th, 2007 at 9:58 amOfficial: Justice Dept. slowed probe into phone jamming
The Justice Department delayed prosecuting a key Republican official for jamming the phones of New Hampshire Democrats until after the 2004 election, protecting top GOP officials from the scandal until the voting was over.
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/
December 20th, 2007 at 9:59 amI disagree. They addressed the central issues, and gave Bush what He wanted every single time.
Billions more for Iraq: check.
Impeachment off the table: check.
Endless war: check.
December 20th, 2007 at 10:01 amHuckabee criticized for meth bill
LITTLE ROCK, Ark. - Republican presidential candidate Mike Huckabee can find plenty of parallels between his native Arkansas and Iowa when it comes to methamphetamine: Both are small states using stricter laws to battle increased use of the drug.
ADVERTISEMENT
But GOP rivals Mitt Romney and Fred Thompson are tagging Huckabee as soft on crime because of a 2005 Arkansas law he signed as governor that gave some meth offenders more credit for good behavior. Instead of serving 70 percent of their sentences, they’d have to serve at least half if they behaved.
“Mike Huckabee’s solution? Early releases for meth dealers,” Thompson’s campaign proclaimed.
http://news.yahoo.com/ s/ ap/ 20071220/ ap_on_el_pr/ huckabee_meth
December 20th, 2007 at 10:01 amIn all honesty I don’t see how anything Joneser has written is troll-like. At least not on this thread. And if the goal of the posters here is to get trolls (or people who disagree with the majority) to post in an adult, supported, mature manner then responses like the ones on this thread are counterproductive. I assume that this poster has been a troll on other threads and that’s the cause of the responses, but there will be no change if people attack on the basis of past behavior.
December 20th, 2007 at 10:03 amStacked up against the M4 during the side-by-side tests were two other weapons popular with special operations forces, including the Heckler and Koch 416 and the FN USA Special Operations Combat Assault Rifle, or Mk16.
More at Military.com http://www.military.com/ NewsContent/ 0,13319,158468,00.html?ESRC=army.nl
Comment by hellinabucket
The problem is that the top performing weapons are not owned by Friends of Bush. Disgusting to say the least.
December 20th, 2007 at 10:04 amGlad to see that you agree, Frank, the Republiscum certainly are disgusting, but that’s because they’re following the most disgusting president ever appointed!
December 20th, 2007 at 10:04 ambtw, I prefer the multi party form of govt that Canada has. Most parties are small & regional and have no chance but there’s no limit of who can run. There’s a Rhino party, even a marijuana party.
http://www.mondopolitico.com/ parties/ canada/ federal/ can.fed.pp.htm
December 20th, 2007 at 10:04 amComment by Dave C — December 20, 2007 @ 10:03 am
Thanks for the class, Dave. And no, none of my posts have ever been, “ehmmm” fecal bombs, as some of these members seem obsessed with.
December 20th, 2007 at 10:06 amI assume that this poster has been a troll on other threads and that’s the cause of the responses, but there will be no change if people attack on the basis of past behavior.
Comment by Dave C
You are making a big assumption there. You are assuming that the paid RNC Republiscum trolls are capable of changing. If they were here for any reason other than to disrupt, that might be true. But they have all proven, time and time again, that the only reason why they are here is to disrupt this blog. Joneser might be sounding reasonable here and now, but he will quickly revert to his normal behavior, once he has sucked in people like you to support him.
December 20th, 2007 at 10:06 amComment by bilbobaggins — December 20, 2007 @ 10:01 am
The issue with the law passed by Huckabee was that the prisons were over crowded and he was trying to remedy the situation. But hey he couldn’t win anyway, cause if he built more prisons, well we know what you all would say. 6 dozen of one, half dozen of the other.
December 20th, 2007 at 10:08 amComment by bilbobaggins — December 20, 2007 @ 10:06 am
Only if you assume I grant blind support. I don’t. Each thread is a new start. The purpose of these topics is to discuss the nuances and argue the details. If it weren’t for people with a contrary viewpoint then few would bother to read the comments. Not much point in just holding hands and saying “Bush sucks”. It’s fun for awhile and then gets boring. But constructive discussions with varying viewpoints make this site worthwhile. Punish people with contrary views for voicing those views in an adult manner & all you’ll get are trolls.
btw, I’ve never been a big believer that anyone is paid to post on behalf of the Rep party. No one is paying me to disagree with them.
December 20th, 2007 at 10:10 amI assume that this poster has been a troll on other threads and that’s the cause of the responses, but there will be no change if people attack on the basis of past behavior.
Comment by Dave C
Dave, have you ever, in the entire amount of time you have been here, seen a Republiscum poster who was here to discuss issues and not here to disrupt? I have been posting here for well over a year and I have NEVER seen one.
December 20th, 2007 at 10:10 am41 percent of the al Qaeda fighters in Iraq were Saudi nationals, according to a West Point study.
This story is a little confusing - they should clarify that the study is only talking about foreign AQI fighters, not native ones. What percentage aree Iraqi nationals?
Comment by toasterhead — December 20, 2007 @ 9:05 am
The number they provide equals 89%, so that would leave 11% Iraqi nationals. HOWEVER, one thing struck me…no mention of Pakistanis in the mix. And I’ve read elsewhere that there ARE Pakistanis fighting with al Qaeda in Iraq.
December 20th, 2007 at 10:12 amRep. Obey said this morning that he’d tried EVERYTHING UNDER THE SUN, and could not get the Republicans to cooperate.
THIS IS WRONG! He hasn’t tried IMPEACHMENT!
He needs to realize that the era of cooperation between Republicans and Democrats is over. The Republicans have adopted a new paradigm and now only ever play hardball. Was their ANY collegiality from the right in 2007???
This administration is the MOST IMPEACHABLE IN HISTORY, and with the 2006 election, we gave our leaders the biggest cannon they’ve had in decades, but our leaders prefer their pea-shooters. We’ve got to stop playing patty-cake and start playing hardball too.
It would be nice to be living in a collegial, polite, civil situation, but that’s not reality anymore! There is nothing one side can do to force the other to negotiate in good faith, and to continue bargaining with liars and cheats (who repeatedly stiff you) is REALLY STUPID!
December 20th, 2007 at 10:13 amComment by bilbobaggins — December 20, 2007 @ 10:10 am
If this thread is any indication then no, you haven’t witnessed that. Because the minute you see a name you recognize as a troll you assume that’s what you’ll see. You’re not looking at the threads objectively.
But wail away. I don’t really care. I was just pointing out that bashing everyone who disagrees and calling them a troll even though they don’t exhibit troll-like behavior is counterproductive.
December 20th, 2007 at 10:13 amThe issue with the law passed by Huckabee was that the prisons were over crowded and he was trying to remedy the situation. But hey he couldn’t win anyway, cause if he built more prisons, well we know what you all would say. 6 dozen of one, half dozen of the other.
Comment by Joneser
Is that the reason why he let the rapist out of jail, who went on to rape again and to kill?
Huckabee has paroled or pardoned numerous prisoners. Were they all to prevent overcrowding of the prisons?
Although the Republican presidential contender and Southern Baptist preacher plays down any personal involvement in that release, Huckabee granted 1,033 pardons and commutations in his 10 1/2 years as governor of Arkansas. The acts of clemency benefited the stepson of a staff member, murderers who worked at the governor’s mansion, a rock star and inmates who received good words from their pastors.
December 20th, 2007 at 10:13 amOh yeah, I’m paid. Good one. LOL
December 20th, 2007 at 10:14 amHmm whatever happen to all those progressive principals there Bilbo? Sounds rather predjudice or bigoted. Almost becoming what you hate.
Oops…I forgot the link for #63
http://ap.google.com/ article/ ALeqM5iKCu_Pj0_Ek6Wjcimi7fVv96RmUwD8TESSSG0
December 20th, 2007 at 10:14 amWhat we call “torture†by the U.S. doesn’t even begin to compare.
Comment by good_golly — December 20, 2007 @ 10:13 am
Keep working on it. You’ll get there. At least we know where you set the bar. When you defend torture by the U.S. by pointing out worse examples of torture by other countries you’ve dropped into the world’s gutters. What next? Child prostitution is ok so long as it’s not as bad as some Asian countries?
December 20th, 2007 at 10:15 amOh yeah, I’m paid. Good one. LOL
Hmm whatever happen to all those progressive principals there Bilbo? Sounds rather predjudice or bigoted. Almost becoming what you hate.
Comment by Joneser
Being a progressive does not mean that we have to put up with people coming here simply to disrupt which is what 99.99% of the Republiscum troll posters do.
So tell me Joneser, how many conservative blog sites even allow someone to post a contrary opinion without being instantly banned. At least you have the ability to post here. We don’t have the ability to post on any conservative web site.
December 20th, 2007 at 10:16 amWhat we call “torture†by the U.S. doesn’t even begin to compare.
Comment by good_golly
How do you know? You and I have NO idea what the CIA does when torturing in secret prisons, or have you been detained?
December 20th, 2007 at 10:16 amI was listening to John Conyers on DemocracyNow. Amy asked if he supported Wexler’s bill to impeach. Conyers said no, and Amy followed up with a why not? question. Conyers did a real song and dance. Ray McGovern was being interviewed along with Conyers and said that he couldn’t understand Conyers’ new approach given that Conyers had drafted a 300+ page paper detailing reasons for impeachment and at least two of them were the same as the list used against Nixon. Conyers continued to dance. Someone has gotten to Conyers. He said that he didn’t want the bad guys to be acquitted and not be judged guilty. Instead, he and pelosi and the rest of the House who dribble out the clock will be judged guilty of dereliction of the duty to defend the Constitution.
December 20th, 2007 at 10:16 amForty-one percent of the al Qaeda fighters in Iraq were Saudi nationals, according to a West Point study. Libyan nationals accounted for the second largest group with about 19 percent of the total, “followed by Syrians and Yemenis each at 8 percent, Algerians with 7 percent and Moroccans at 6 percent.â€
Huh. No Iranians. Interesting. Yes, provocative.
December 20th, 2007 at 10:20 amIf you want to change a party you have to change it from within. It has been done before.
Comment by Joneser — December 20, 2007 @ 9:53 am
Bush certainly has done that to the GOOP. He’s destroyed it completely.
December 20th, 2007 at 10:20 am#16: That’s disgusting.
Comment by Frank M — December 20, 2007 @ 9:29 am
There was nothing offensive in #16.
December 20th, 2007 at 10:22 amIf this had been 8 years ago and a democrat govenor you all would hav ebeen saying “ish” happens. If it was me, I would build more prison’s and castration centers for particular sex offenders, but I can’t. But if govenor releases or pardons prisoners and he has an (R) before his name, watch-out!
December 20th, 2007 at 10:23 amWhat did we miss?
There’s this and this.
December 20th, 2007 at 10:29 amComment by bilbobaggins — December 20, 2007 @ 10:16 am
I wasn’t speaking of blogs… I was speaking of and as and individual to YOU. If a conservative blog did that to you… and based on some of the insults you have hurled at me, and individual conservative, I don’t blame them. But if you approached comment with some kind of self-respect for yourself and they kicked you out… That is horrible and i have said it before in a post i wrote last week.
December 20th, 2007 at 10:29 amBut this jaded, cliche, troll crap is so hackneyed and tired. I come on here to here differing opinion and understand where the loyal opposition is coming from. But clearly if it doesn’t fit your stereotype of a conservative, you have hurl feces at it.
72 Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — December 20, 2007 @ 10:20 am
What about the GOP has he destroyed in your opinion, seriously I am interested in knowing your opinion.
December 20th, 2007 at 10:31 am77…
December 20th, 2007 at 10:36 amforgive the typos and spelling… writing to fast
What about the GOP has he destroyed in your opinion, seriously I am interested in knowing your opinion.
Comment by Jonese
The ability to attract anything other than inbred, ignorant, cowards.
December 20th, 2007 at 10:39 amWhat about the GOP has he destroyed in your opinion, seriously I am interested in knowing your opinion.
Comment by Joneser — December 20, 2007 @ 10:31 am
Well, there’s the myth of Republican fiscal responsibility for one.
December 20th, 2007 at 10:39 am80….
December 20th, 2007 at 10:40 am(cricket)
The myth that Republicans want smaller govt.
December 20th, 2007 at 10:40 amThe myth that Repukes want to keep the government’s nose out of our private lives…
The list goes on, and on Jules…
December 20th, 2007 at 10:41 amThe myth that Republicans want less govt.
December 20th, 2007 at 10:41 amThe lying monkey is speaking at this moment.
December 20th, 2007 at 10:41 amIt’s like watching a train wreck - I cannot avert my eyes.
#77 = steaming pile of cowardice and partison BS cloaked in the guise of a CONCERN TROLL.
December 20th, 2007 at 10:42 am“Compassionate Conservatives” as a term can be thrown in the garbage.
December 20th, 2007 at 10:43 am81
December 20th, 2007 at 10:43 amI agree, but that isn’t all Bush. That’s political ego and power over principal. That goes for both sides. And based on the last election, i think conservatives got the message across. But I am glad to see some of the old fat cats have been elected out or are retiring for new blood.
That goes for both sides.
Back in your hole, you asked for our opinion, we didn’t ask for yours.
December 20th, 2007 at 10:47 amUnfortunatley principals fall by the way said with too much “power” of politicians Dave. However, I can’t skirt the ideals based on the bad apples. I just try to speak to wrongs and correct them and vote accordingly. That’s why we have primaries. But there are times where you have to seperate principals from party action. Most Liberals are Democrats but not all democrats are liberal. Most Conservatives are republican’s but not all republicans are conservative.
December 20th, 2007 at 10:51 amComment by DieNowForPeace — December 20, 2007 @ 10:47 am
;)
December 20th, 2007 at 10:52 amYou asked how Bush has trashed your party. The examples given say it all. You can choose to ignore them or act like Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, Rice, Ashcroft, Gonzalez et al are simply bad apples but you’re just ignoring the evidence. Your party has shown the American people and the world that they don’t care about human rights, the Bill of Rights, the poor & middle class etc. etc. They are your party. You’ve inherited this mess, like it or not.
December 20th, 2007 at 10:55 amBut there are times where you have to seperate principals from party action. Most Liberals are Democrats but not all democrats are liberal. Most Conservatives are republican’s but not all republicans are conservative.
Comment by Joneser
Duh, we know how the world works, thanks for the elementary school lesson on politics.
Our elected elite officials are the one’s who should, but DON’T seperate principals from party action. “D’oh!”
December 20th, 2007 at 10:56 amYou asked how Bush has trashed your party. The examples given say it all. You can choose to ignore them or act like Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, Rice, Ashcroft, Gonzalez et al are simply bad apples but you’re just ignoring the evidence. Your party has shown the American people and the world that they don’t care about human rights, the Bill of Rights, the poor & middle class etc. etc.
Worth repeating for our little CONCERN TROLL. (Hugs everyone!!!)
December 20th, 2007 at 10:58 amComment by DieNowForPeace — December 20, 2007 @ 10:58 am
December 20th, 2007 at 11:02 am;)
Comment by Joneser
Here’s your little dunce hat and a frown to go with it:
December 20th, 2007 at 11:10 amWhy didn’t at least one of those nuns briing some holy water to throw on the monster ?
December 20th, 2007 at 11:10 am8-(
December 20th, 2007 at 11:11 amWhy didn’t at least one of those nuns briing some holy water to throw on the monster ?
Comment by MapleStreet
You mean Dick the Dick Cheney?
December 20th, 2007 at 11:12 am83, 84: Dave C and Die Now for Peace:
While I agree with the comment about smaller government in principle, I wonder if a lot of the last few years hasn’t been aimed at weakening the elected govt while creating a shadow government which is much larger and representative of industry and big bucks.
See KBR, Blackwater, etc.
December 20th, 2007 at 11:13 amI’ll call someone I know in Hollywood.
Comment by CaptainMantastic
Pretty sure you don’t have to “call” Hollywood to make pornos these days, what with digital cameras and the net and all.. YOU of all people should know this.
December 20th, 2007 at 11:19 amBush is being attacked by a bunch of penguins!
December 20th, 2007 at 11:33 amGo penguins, go!
Peck his eyes out!
Poop on his shoes!
What we call “torture†by the U.S. doesn’t even begin to compare.
Comment by good_golly — December 20, 2007 @ 10:13 am
So…? And your point is…?
That’s it’s OK for Americans to do a *little* torturing - and that we’re still the good guys because because OUR torture isn’t as bad as the other guys’ torture…?
Gee. That’s kinda like being a little bit pregnant.
Torture is torture, you soulless, craven coward - no matter who does it, or the degree.
December 20th, 2007 at 11:37 amHow has Bush trashed the republican party? Well, using republican logic he has done very little himself to trash the party. It is his administration that has done so. Being a former republican I can list out a few things…#1 fiscal responsibility. #2 un sound foreign policy, remember when republicans used to say things like “who made us the worlds policeman?” #3 remember the days when they felt that government should not intrude in our private lives? #4 remember when the republicans claimed to be the party that was tough on crime? Turns out that they are also dumb on crime, really really dumb.
Mostly though the republican party has turned into a caricature of its former self. Today I believe the republican party will do whatever they think they can get away with while in power to remain in power. In other words policy, sticking to conservative principals, and good governance are no longer anything they aspire to. Everything they aspire to revolves around winning elections and political battles and maintaining power. Nothing they do revolves around doing the right thing. If they perchance happen do do something that is the right thing that is simply an unintended byproduct of the actions they have undertaken to maintain their political power. They govern for themselves and themselves only the other 70% of the country be damned.
December 20th, 2007 at 11:39 amLakota Indians declared Independence from US and break treaties:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,317548,00.html
If I were President Bush, I would immediately send in the feds to arrest the Lakota leaders who did this, then help the remaining people establish a democratic government within their borders, that adheres to the treaties with the US.
It is untenable to have any entity within the contiguous 48 states that negotiates directly with foreign countries, end of story.
December 20th, 2007 at 11:43 am“If I were President Bush, I would immediately send in the feds to arrest the Lakota leaders who did this, then help the remaining people establish a democratic government within their borders, that adheres to the treaties with the US.”
Comment by Jason M. Hendler —
Treaties - like the Geneva Conventions? White man Bush speak with forked tongue.
December 20th, 2007 at 11:51 am“Most Liberals are Democrats but not all democrats are liberal. Most Conservatives are republican’s but not all republicans are conservative.”
Comment by Joneser
Almost no republicans are conservative. They talk the conservative talk, but spend tax money just as freely as liberals.
December 20th, 2007 at 11:54 am110 - way more freely.
December 20th, 2007 at 11:59 am#62 sadly you entirely miss the point good_golly. The fact that we are even having a discussion on torture and that we are redefining what the word means is an indictment on our nation.
In WWII we looked at the Gestapo and the Japanese treatment of prisoners and were horrified. For most of the twentieth century we looked at the KGB with horror. None of this could ever happen here in our country. Turns out it can happen here. Turns out we are using the same methods as all of those people. Turns out our running of Abu Grhaib was not too much different than how Sadaam ran it.
We are now justifying what we once called inhumane and immoral. And…we are getting the same results. Confessions to just about anything we want the tortured to confess to. I’d even bet that we could torture, oh I mean use enhanced interrogation techniques (The Gestapo had a term for their torture, they called it verscharfte Vernnehmung..the German term “verschärfte Vernehmung” also directly translates to “enhanced interrogation”.) and after using the enhanced techniques we could get people to admit to planning the holocaust, shooting Kennedy, killing Hoffa, and causing solar flares. Point being that you can get anyone to say anything using enhanced methods.
For example…there have been allegations of police torturing suspects in Chicago for the last few years. Some of these people signed confessions and went to prison. Turns out they were tortured and coerced into signing the confessions and years later they would capture the criminals after these people spent time in prison. I know the republican mind set is that well, these guys were probably guilty of something or would have been so there is no problem that they spent 5, 10, 15 years in prison for a crime they did not commit. This is not justice, it is not the American way. It is exactly what we have been telling people for years can not happen in our country. Yet now we have it as a condoned state sponsored practice that a large percentage of our people seem to have no problem with.
Like I said before, the fact that this debate is even occurring shows just how far our nation has fallen. It remains to be seen if we have fallen far enough that we are plummeting through the abyss, or is there still hope? Are we clinging to the cliff with our humanity on the surface.
By the way every time you and your king discuss our actions in relations to the actions of our enemies it brings us one more step down. We are not supposed to lower our selves to their levels. We are not supposed to be less bad than them. We are supposed to have the high ideals and have the standards of behavior that others shoot to emulate. not the other way around.
December 20th, 2007 at 12:04 pmVeritas,
I believe the Joneser is hear to fling feces, not rationally discuss differences in opinions. I may be wrong; we’ll see.
-Comment by Zimzone
This was my post that got Joneser in a hissy fit. Note my last sentence.
I would submit Joneser’s ‘purpose’ has now been determined.
You decide…have we ’seen’ yet?
December 20th, 2007 at 12:09 pm#108 ummm, the company I work for is located in the US and we negotiate directly with foreign countries as do many other multinationals.
But lets take this in a different direction. Lets view the Indians as being a race of people who have lived through a holocaust. They are attempting to regain sovereignty over a land given to them by God to care for. Sounds a bit like Israel doesn’t it? Should we as a nation allow the Indians to reclaim what was once theirs? What was given to them by God? Should we arm them against those who brought a foreign religion to their land and took the land by force? We seem to have no trouble supporting Israel under those circumstances. Are we a consistent country or not?
December 20th, 2007 at 12:11 pm114, Severus,
December 20th, 2007 at 12:22 pmThat’s a remarkable parallel you drew with Native Americans & Israel.
Thank you.
spend tax money just as freely as liberals.
Comment by barfly — December 20, 2007 @ 11:54 am
And, may I add, spend more money than they take in, requiring us to mortgage our future to the Chinese. How conservative and fiscally responsible is that?
December 20th, 2007 at 12:39 pm“What did we miss? Let us know in the comments section.”
Iraq’s Sunnis celebrate holiday with a renewed vigor
Los Angeles Times
December 20, 2007
BAGHDAD — Thousands of Sunni Muslim faithful bowed their heads at dawn Wednesday in mosques around Baghdad for the first prayers of the Eid al-Adha holiday — a time of renewed hope after months of reduced bloodshed, yet tinged with sadness for those not there to share it.
It was the largest turnout in years at Abu Hanifa, Baghdad’s largest Sunni mosque, where worshipers spilled into the yard and the streets outside. After the service, long lines formed to buy slices of pastry eaten with syrup and cream, a traditional holiday breakfast.
Relatives long separated by the killing that raged in Baghdad’s bloodied streets were reunited again.
“I visited family and friends all over Baghdad,” marveled Sabah Abdul-Wahab, a young chef, who spent last year’s four-day holiday confined with his parents and siblings in the upmarket Karada district. “I also went to Zawra Park, and the place was filled with families having picnics and just relishing the newfound security.”
U.S. commanders say violence across Iraq is at its lowest level since the first year after the 2003 American-led invasion. They credit the deployment of additional U.S. troops, a freeze in activities by a powerful Shiite Muslim militia and the decision of thousands of Sunni Arab tribesmen to resist the insurgents they once backed.
But the relative calm pervading the capital was a stark contrast to the holiday’s start last year, when at least 78 people were killed in explosions across Iraq and sixteen corpses were recovered in Baghdad alone, victims of execution-style slayings. On that day, people woke up to hear the news that Saddam Hussein had been hanged, spreading bitterness, fear and anger among his fellow Sunnis, even as Shiites fired guns into the air to celebrate the tyrant’s demise.
Those days seemed a dark, unpleasant memory as members of Naif Talal’s extended family gathered at his grandfather’s home in the Adil neighborhood, scene of some of the worst fighting of Baghdad’s sectarian war.
December 20th, 2007 at 12:40 pmThey are attempting to regain sovereignty over a land given to them by God to care for. Sounds a bit like Israel doesn’t it?
No, God didn’t give the Israeli’s squat. They just took over most of Palestine after WWII as donated to them by the guilt ridden western nations under the UN auspices.
December 20th, 2007 at 12:41 pmComment by Exley — December 20, 2007 @ 12:40 pm
sounds like the Ex has been consuming more of the managed, fabricated news coming from the US propaganda machine.
I looked up these reporters, and for the most part, they are purveyors of good news, feel warm and fuzzy stories with a few exceptions.
December 20th, 2007 at 12:47 pmI looked up these reporters, and for the most part, they are purveyors of good news, feel warm and fuzzy stories with a few exceptions.
Comment by RUCerious — December 20, 2007 @ 12:47 pm
Happy thoughts don’t require factual truth. They just need to be happy. It’s misdirection. They also ignore the fact that so many Iraqis are dead or have left the country that the violence should subside simply because so many people are gone. If they were all dead imagine how peaceful the country would be.
December 20th, 2007 at 12:51 pm“Iraqis of all sectarian and ethnic groups believe that the U.S. military invasion is the primary root of the violent differences among them, and see the departure of “occupying forces” as the key to national reconciliation, according to focus groups conducted for the U.S. military last month.
“That is good news, according to a military analysis of the results. At the very least, analysts optimistically concluded, the findings indicate that Iraqis hold some “shared beliefs” that may eventually allow them to surmount the divisions that have led to a civil war. ”
…
“Conducting the focus groups, in 19 separate sessions organized by outside contractors in five cities, is among the ways in which Multi-National Force-Iraq assesses conditions in the country beyond counting insurgent attacks, casualties and weapons caches. The command, led by Army Gen. David H. Petraeus, devotes more time and resources than any other government or independent entity to measuring various matters, including electricity, satisfaction with trash collection and what Iraqis think it will take for them to get along.
“The results are analyzed and presented to Petraeus as part of the daily Battle Update Assessment or BUA (pronounced boo-ah). Some of the news has been unarguably good, including the sharply reduced number of roadside bombings and attacks on civilians. But bad news is often presented with a bright side, such as the focus-group results and a November poll, which found that 25 percent of Baghdad residents were satisfied with their local government and that 15 percent said they had enough fuel for heating and cooking.
“The good news? Those numbers were higher than the figures of the previous month (18 percent and 9 percent, respectively). ”
December 20th, 2007 at 1:17 pm…
If I were President Bush, I would immediately send in the feds to arrest the Lakota leaders who did this, then help the remaining people establish a democratic government within their borders, that adheres to the treaties with the US.
It is untenable to have any entity within the contiguous 48 states that negotiates directly with foreign countries, end of story.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — December 20, 2007 @ 11:43 am
Leave it to the bed-wetting wingnut to come up with a massive overreaction.
December 20th, 2007 at 1:26 pm#115 I’ve often thought of the parallel between the US and the Indians and the Israelis and Palestinians. Today the US is to the Indians what the Muslim armies were to the Jews back in the middle ages. And perhaps someday the citizens of the US will be in the same position as the Palestinians are today. Though I seriously doubt it. In reality the Indians are much more concentrated in the US than the Jews were in the middle east back then. So their culture and people had spread much further than the Indians will ever spread. Also lets face it Judaism and Christianity are extremely closely linked and there is very little love in the world for the Indians religious culture outside of their own society. But it is interesting the parallels.
#117 yes violence is reduced right now. But why? You and your kind would say the surge is it, only the surge, don’t look any further. But people in the know would say it is a combination of multiple factors. One being that we have chosen to arm the Sunni’s (remember al-queda is Sunni) and use them to govern their own area’s. Another factor is that a lot of the cleansing is over and the Sunni’s, Shiites and Kurds are nearly completely separated, and they were nearly completely separated by the time thhe surge began. Another factor is that the Mahdi Army is essentially on stand down.
What has not happened is any real progress ion reaching the goals of the surge. Also the violence levels are down to 2006 levels and in 2006 the public was raging mad at the administration for the violence level in Iraq. So essentially one year after the public resolutely sent a loud and clear FU to the white house the violence levels are back down to a level previously considered unacceptable by the public. The only reason the public is not raging like they were last year is because this is not an election year and because the press has come darn near close to abandoning Iraq as a story. In Spite of the lower Violence levels, John McCain would still need body armor, 100 troops and helicopter gunship’s circling overhead if he wanted to go out and buy some oranges and carpets in the market. That is the reality of Iraq today.
December 20th, 2007 at 2:01 pmSeverus,
Your company may contract with foreign entities within federal regulations, and pay any taxes, duties, etc. Having worked for defense companies, I know there are many limits to what US companies may offer other nations, and vice versa, due to fed policy.
Regardless of whether the Lakotas are driven by religion, nationalism, political idealism, etc., the Lakotas are a defeated nation under treaty within the US. If they have any grievances with the US, they can take it up in federal court, or lobby congress, or the Indian Affairs offices for to adjust policies / treaties. Florida and the feds just worked with the Seminoles on gaming policies, so there is no reason for secession / independence.
December 20th, 2007 at 2:26 pmLeave it to the bed-wetting wingnut to come up with a massive overreaction.
Comment by Zooey
He should just insert a catheter and save money in linens and diapers.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:02 pmIf they have any grievances with the US, they can take it up in federal court, or lobby congress, or the Indian Affairs offices for to adjust policies / treaties. Florida and the feds just worked with the Seminoles on gaming policies, so there is no reason for secession / independence.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — December 20, 2007 @ 2:26 pm
Uh huh, treaties and policies. So you expect them to live up to their signatures on pieces of paper? How quaint.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:04 pmComment by Dave C — December 20, 2007 @ 3:04 pm
I believe the expression you are looking for is “goddamn pieces of paper”.
Here is one unexpected fallout from Bush’s I-ignore-treaties-’cuz-I-can doctrine. The very same these Bush loyalists were quick to applaud when it worked for them, and are now quicker to condemn when it works against them.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:19 pmIf they have any grievances with the US, they can take it up in federal court, or lobby congress, or the Indian Affairs offices for to adjust policies / treaties. Florida and the feds just worked with the Seminoles on gaming policies, so there is no reason for secession / independence.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — December 20, 2007 @ 2:26 pm
Actually, Jason, the Lakota have many reasons to desire independence from the U.S. And just for your information, they and other tribes HAVE been trying to “work things out” with the U.S. government for years. The U.S. has broken dozens and dozens of treaties made with Indian tribes since the BEGINNING. Did you know, for example, that Oklahoma had been “granted” to the Indians as “Indian land until perpetuity” after forced moves from their original homes? I assume you’ve also heard about the Oklahoma Land Rush? Or did you know that the Black Hills were also given to the Sioux (Lakota) forever…until gold was discovered there? Perhaps if you’d ever visited the Rose Bud or Pine Ridge reservations or knew ONE THING about Native American history, you’d be more sympathetic. As for me, I hope the Navajo Nation is next. Window Rock, their seat of government, is pretty nice. The rest of the reservation is as poverty-stricken as any of the worse third-world countries.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:46 pmJason, Good golly, Cold hard left, whatever you call yourself 1) when exactly has a treaty with an Indian tribe been followed by the US? 2) exactly which treaty are you talking about. 3) you are saying that the Lakota are a nation, yet they are totally assimilated within the US, is this a new definition of a nation? and 4) when exactly did a republican become concerned with following a treaty? Aren’t all documents signed prior to this administration of a pre-911 mindset? You know 911 changed everything. But beyond that wasn’t it the president who, long before 911, began scrapping old treaties which were still in effect, simply because following them would not allow him to chase his star wars pipe dreams? Weren’t we told that old treaties were quaint documents? Why the change of heart? Is it simply that it seems more convenient for you to follow a particular treaty when it suits you?
December 20th, 2007 at 4:39 pmBy the way Jason I find it convenient that you say you work for a defense contractor. It allows you to tout your manly republican cred without actually having to get in the trenches and go out in the field like a real soldier does. Your tag line should be…”I don’t actually kill people myself but I do provide others with the means to kill brown people”
December 20th, 2007 at 4:41 pmIs it simply that it seems more convenient for you to follow a particular treaty when it suits you?
Comment by Severus — December 20, 2007 @ 4:39 pm
Yes.
December 20th, 2007 at 5:33 pmCaption:
“Let us sing thy praises, O’ thou Anti-Christ.”
∞
December 21st, 2007 at 2:32 am