Wexler On Impeachment: ‘This Is Not The Lunatic Fringe — This Is Mainstream America’
Wexler On Impeachment: ‘This Is Not The Lunatic Fringe — This Is Mainstream America’
Today on the Ed Schultz Show, Rep. Robert Wexler (D-FL) discussed his effort to increase public pressure for the commencement of impeachment hearings against Vice President Dick Cheney. Wexler has launched a website — WexlerWantsHearings.com — to collect signatures in support of his call.
Wexler explained that he launched his website after traditional media outlets rejected an op-ed he had written with his colleagues Luis Gutierrez (D-IL) and Tammy Baldwin (D-WI):
We laid out precisely why the House Judiciary Committee should open up hearings. … And we set out in an op-ed why we should do it, and none of the major newspapers in the country — the New York Times or the Washington Post, the Boston Globe, the LA Times — they chose not to run it.
I thought it was a fairly significant statement by the mainstream media that when members of the House Judiciary Committee lay out a credible claim for why impeachment hearings should begin regarding the Vice President of the United States, and they refuse to run it, then we decided well we would start this website…and see what the feeling was in terms of mainstream America.
Listen to it:
Wexler said he has been “astonished” by the outpouring of support — over 100,000 have signed up in five days. He said he plans to write a letter to House Judiciary Committee Chairman John Conyers (D-MI) in early January, asking him to begin start impeachment hearings.
“This is not the lunatic fringe — this is mainstream America,” Wexler said. These are “people that believe in the very patriotic vision, and they’re all very upset about what they see as the abuse of power by this administration and the failure of Congress to hold them accountable.”
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AMY GOODMAN: Since last week, over 100,000 people have signed a petition on Congressman Wexler’s website supporting impeachment hearings. And we’re wondering, Congressman Conyers, now with your committee members taking up this issue, an issue that you actually long championed, what your feelings are today. Will you be supporting them in this?
REP. JOHN CONYERS: Well, no
http://www.democracynow.org/2007/12/20/to_impeach_or_not_to_impeach
December 20th, 2007 at 1:49 pmThis is why the internet scares the established media….. because they can no long force feed issues to the public. Now, the public has a voice and nothing scares the establishment more than John and Jane Public suddenly realizing what democracy is all about.
December 20th, 2007 at 1:50 pmThese are “people that believe in the very patriotic vision, and they’re all very upset about what they see as the abuse of power by this administration and the failure of Congress to hold them accountable.â€
Right On, my friend, Right On. A nation of laws should not be held hostage by a handful of misinformed men performing illegal acts because it is easier than following the law.
December 20th, 2007 at 1:51 pmBe sure to sign up folks!
Comment by justasking
I signed up five days ago.
December 20th, 2007 at 1:52 pmHmmmm. I am wondering how the trolls are gonna react to this.
December 20th, 2007 at 1:57 pm“This is not the lunatic fringe — this is mainstream America,†Wexler said.
- – Congressman Wexler obviously hasn’t run this by “our” own Frank M.
December 20th, 2007 at 1:58 pmThe White House can ignore the people.
Congress can ignore the people.
The media can even ignore the people.
But the people will find a way to be heard. As Molly Ivins said in her very last column, “We are the people who run this country. We are the deciders.” And mainstream America needs to take this country back. Now.
December 20th, 2007 at 1:58 pmThat was amazing. In the 10 seconds it took me to sign the petition, the number increased by over 30!
Go Wexler.
December 20th, 2007 at 1:59 pm112, 000 + and rising.
Go Wexler!~!
December 20th, 2007 at 2:00 pmwhy has wexler NOT signed on as a co-sponsor of HR333?
now that we’ve signed up on the govt’s newest “patriot” list, now what?
December 20th, 2007 at 2:02 pmI really do hope that the results of this poll will be available to our Congressional reps by zip code.
Hey, Mr. Inslee, how many signees in zip code 98012??????????
December 20th, 2007 at 2:02 pmI have it bookmarked…I’ll sign on after I get through this annoying thing called work.
December 20th, 2007 at 2:03 pmIt’s incomprehensible that we live in a time when the MSM can’t be bothered to give even the slightest coverage to this campaign much less the many and varied criminal activities of this poor excuse for a VP of our United States. This thug belongs in a cold prison but it’s heartening at the least to see this movement growing. Keep it up Mr. Wexler! And please, everyone go to the site and sign that petition!
December 20th, 2007 at 2:03 pmThat was amazing. In the 10 seconds it took me to sign the petition, the number increased by over 30!
Go Wexler.
Comment by bilbobaggins — December 20, 2007 @ 1:59 pm
And it increased by 38 in the time it took me to sign up. At this rate…
December 20th, 2007 at 2:03 pm“upset” hardly describes my feelings towards treasonous war criminals.
December 20th, 2007 at 2:03 pmThis is a very critical time for the Democrats in my opinion… Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi have got to go!!…and I mean NOW!…
If Democrats continue with these two charlatans in Leadership Positions, the chances are increasing even more than what they already are that voters will view Democrats as weak leaders on just about anything and everything! And of course this translates into fewer pickups in both Houses – if not losses…
It’s past time to dump these two idiots NOW!!…Chris Dodd would be a GREAT leader in the Senate!!…and Dennis Kucinich in the House!!
December 20th, 2007 at 2:04 pmHmmmm. I am wondering how the trolls are gonna react to this.
Comment by StratRat
There’s no need for hearings! Nobody has done anything bad! Just move along people. There’s nothing to see here.
December 20th, 2007 at 2:05 pmRep. John Conyers,
Cut the crap! Clinton was impeached for lying about getting a blow job from a consenting adult! We did not consent to getting screwed by these criminals. At what point will you say “enough is enough”?
Do the right thing, goddammit!
December 20th, 2007 at 2:06 pmOK..it really was only 10 seconds to sign the petition. Done. I hope that list isn’t being live mirrored to the NSA.
December 20th, 2007 at 2:06 pmyou go, congressman wexler…
And, yes, I DO take it personally
December 20th, 2007 at 2:06 pmOK..it really was only 10 seconds to sign the petition. Done. I hope that list isn’t being live mirrored to the NSA.
Comment by Menehune
Of course it is. But then, so is this post. Just one more reason to impeach.
December 20th, 2007 at 2:08 pmBut the people will find a way to be heard. As Molly Ivins said in her very last column, “We are the people who run this country. We are the deciders.†And mainstream America needs to take this country back. Now.
Comment by missmolly — December 20, 2007 @ 1:58 pm
And we will.
Right after we finish doing our holiday shopping at Wal*Mart. And after we stop at McDonald’s for a Big Mac. Oh, and we should probably stop at the ExxonMobil station on the way and get some gas for the Chevrolet. And while we’re at the gas station we’ll get a Coca-Cola and some Philip Morris cigarettes. And then when we get home there’s probably going to be something good on Viacom/ABC so we’ll have to watch that first while reclining on the sofa we bought at Macy’s. And also by the time the show is over the Big Mac might be acting up on us so we’ll have to take some GlaxoSmithKline-manufactured Zantac.
But right after that – it’s POWER TO THE PEOPLE!
December 20th, 2007 at 2:08 pmHmmmm. I am wondering how the trolls are gonna react to this.
Comment by StratRat
Something like —”You far left fringe group loony moonbats”
December 20th, 2007 at 2:09 pmno coverage in major papers. Wexler’s gotta get onto a nightly news broadcast SOMEHOW and mention his site. then, kaboom. plz :/
December 20th, 2007 at 2:10 pmI signed up when there was only 38,000. Nice to see the list is still growing
December 20th, 2007 at 2:10 pmUp 47 from when I logged on to when I finished.
December 20th, 2007 at 2:10 pmNo, really, it’s lunatic fringe.
Comment by CaptainMantastic — December 20, 2007 @ 2:11 pm
You must be confused. The lunatic fringe is actually the 24% who still think Bush is doing a swell job as president.
December 20th, 2007 at 2:14 pmNo, really, it’s lunatic fringe.
Comment by CaptainMantastic — December 20, 2007 @ 2:11 pm
Well I was close….. =)
December 20th, 2007 at 2:15 pmHmmmm. I am wondering how the trolls are gonna react to this.
Comment by StratRat — December 20, 2007 @ 1:57 pm
Well…likely ignore it as it will not result in impeachment proceedings. That’s be my advice for everyone, actually. Rep. Conyers is going to ignore it, after all, is he a troll?
December 20th, 2007 at 2:17 pmNo, really, it’s lunatic fringe.
Comment by CaptainMantastic
Lemme see here. 24% Versus 76%
The fringe is always the smaller number in a democracy.
December 20th, 2007 at 2:17 pmGO WEXLER, GO!
This morning on NPR, there was a whole story about an immigration dispute involving a whole – get this – 2 people! Any mention of this petition (which had maybe 90,000 last night)???
Please consider how many signatures this would have if the media reported on this AT ALL.
Take heart, people – there are a whole lot of us and if we continue to push, we can make impeachment happen.
Thank you, TP, for mentioning this.
December 20th, 2007 at 2:17 pm113,091 signed up and counting…
December 20th, 2007 at 2:20 pmWell…likely ignore it as it will not result in impeachment proceedings. That’s be my advice for everyone, actually. Rep. Conyers is going to ignore it, after all, is he a troll?
Comment by Keltoi — December 20, 2007 @ 2:17 pm
You’d like it everyone ignored Wexler, right?
It’s a telling comment on your view of democracy, Keltoi, that you’d suggest people ignore something that is an uphill battle and possibly a lost cause. “Give up! You don’t stand a chance!” That’s unAmerican advice. The Gipper must be rolling over in his grave.
December 20th, 2007 at 2:20 pmComment by Keltoi — December 20, 2007 @ 2:17 pm
In objective/subjective Rove, and Mr P, reality; whatever one says is true.
December 20th, 2007 at 2:20 pmIt’s past time to dump these two idiots NOW!!…Chris Dodd would be a GREAT leader in the Senate!!…and Dennis Kucinich in the House!!
Comment by ForeverDem
Wow, now that would be a dynamic duo! Neither one of them would roll over and play dead for Bully Boy Bush. I just wish there was some way “we the people” could choose the leaders in the Senate and House. All we can do is to write to our representatives imploring them to get rid of Pelosi and Reid.
I’m really hoping that California gets smart and sends Pelosi packing. I think that, even without political experience, Cindy Sheehan will do a much better job of representing the constituents of California.
December 20th, 2007 at 2:27 pmIf Wexler wants impeachment, he should just “Cheney” Bush himself.
December 20th, 2007 at 2:28 pmBut right after that – it’s POWER TO THE PEOPLE!
Comment by toasterhead
That was a very funny post! The problem is that it is probably true.
December 20th, 2007 at 2:30 pmIt’s a telling comment on your view of democracy, Keltoi, that you’d suggest people ignore something that is an uphill battle and possibly a lost cause. “Give up! You don’t stand a chance!†That’s unAmerican advice. The Gipper must be rolling over in his grave.
Comment by gummitch — December 20, 2007 @ 2:20 pm
Alright, you are right on this one, Gummitch. If you feel passionately about something, which you guys obviously do on impeachment, then go for it and may the Gods bless you.
I just think the reality is that it is tilting at windmills, but there is a certain satisfaction in pursuing a lost cause in the name of the good fight.
December 20th, 2007 at 2:31 pmBTW, was Truman impeached or put on trial as a criminal?
Comment by CaptainMantastic
He should.
December 20th, 2007 at 2:34 pm113,339 and rising.
December 20th, 2007 at 2:34 pmBTW, was Truman impeached or put on trial as a criminal?
This post highlights the current ‘progressive’ partisan overreach.
Comment by CaptainMantastic — December 20, 2007 @ 2:31 pm
No, actually, it does nothing of the kind. In case it has escaped your notice, this is not 1952, and the calls for impeachment are not driven by popularity polls. Any numbers that have been offered here were strictly in response to people like you who claim that only “the fringe” wants to be rid of Bush/Cheney.
Your comments about Truman are utterly irrelevant to the case at hand.
December 20th, 2007 at 2:38 pmBTW, was Truman impeached or put on trial as a criminal?
This post highlights the current ‘progressive’ partisan overreach.
Comment by CaptainMantastic — December 20, 2007 @ 2:31 pm
Interesting comparison. A few questions…
Did the Truman Administration lie and falsify evidence to get us into the Korean War?
Did the Truman Administration illegally wiretap and conduct surveillance on U.S. citizens?
Did the Truman Administration illegally torture non-combatants and hold them indefinitely without charge or legal counsel?
Did the Truman Administration rig two elections?
Did the Truman Administration fire U.S. Attorneys on false charges of incompetence and replace them with partisan hacks in order to launch trumped-up election fraud investigations before a midterm election?
Did the Truman Administration ignore intelligence that could have prevented the deaths of more than 3,000 Americans?
Just curious…
December 20th, 2007 at 2:38 pmI signed.
December 20th, 2007 at 2:38 pmI know people who could write software “bots†that would sign the petition thousands of times every day.
Comment by Frank M
or maybe post idiotic rants… ?
December 20th, 2007 at 2:38 pmInternet petitions are meaningless. You can never prove that someone who signed it is actually a human being. I know people who could write software “bots†that would sign the petition thousands of times every day.
Comment by Frank M
Francine M is meaningless. You can never prove that he is a human being or that he even exists.
December 20th, 2007 at 2:39 pmI know people who could write software “bots†that would sign the petition thousands of times every day.
Comment by Frank M — December 20, 2007 @ 2:37 pm
Do they all work for Diebold?
December 20th, 2007 at 2:39 pmComment by bilbobaggins — December 20, 2007 @ 2:27 pm
I find it extremely unlikely that a sitting Speaker of the House will be ousted.
If Hastert couldn’t be ousted from his seat last year under suspicion of hiding knowledge of page exploitation, how could that happen to Nancy Pelosi, who fits the country’s democratic mood?
Besides, Nancy didn’t want to risk throwing impeachment on the table upon taking the speakership, for that may have unleashed a torrent of abuse on her party for years to come. She made the intent of bipartisanship clear, not to be in compliance with secrecy of cover up this administrations supposed wrongdoing. To that end, I don’t believe Nancy’s decision will come back to haunt her, even if in 2009 it become crystal clear this administration committed impeacheable offenses.
December 20th, 2007 at 2:39 pmonly mention in WaPo is a question thread to a White House reporter:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2007/12/16/DI2007121601760.html
“Winnipeg, Canada: Can you explain why the move by three members of the judiciary committee for impeachment hearings against the Vice President has not received much media attention? I didn’t see anything in the online Washington Post, for instance. Rep. Wexler apparently has gathered 80,000 signatures supporting his position on his Web site. This appears to be big news to me.
Michael Abramowitz: To be quite honest, I am not aware of whether we have written about this. We have gotten these questions in one form or another for several years: Impeachment is not going to be happening under this Congress, even if there are some law-makers who think it is a good idea. So the media moves on to other things.”
First, Ctrl+F, a$$. Second, it’s happening now. This logic is akin to…’they said the Titanic was unsinkable, so we can’t report on it actually happening’.
Thank you corporate media…defenders of ____.
December 20th, 2007 at 2:40 pmI find it extremely unlikely that a sitting Speaker of the House will be ousted.
Comment by tombaked — December 20, 2007 @ 2:39 pm
So did Jim Wright in 1994.
December 20th, 2007 at 2:42 pmI know people who could write software “bots†that would sign the petition thousands of times every day.
Comment by Frank M
You know people who could create a different e-mail address and name and then go to that site and sign the petition thousands of time a day. This bot must also be able to get past the first page where you give your name and e-mail address on to the second page where you submit your vote.
Wow, you have some very talented friends there Francine if they can do that.
December 20th, 2007 at 2:42 pmIt’s a telling comment on your view of democracy, Keltoi, that you’d suggest people ignore something that is an uphill battle and possibly a lost cause. “Give up! You don’t stand a chance!†That’s unAmerican advice. The Gipper must be rolling over in his grave.
Comment by gummitch — December 20, 2007 @ 2:20 pm
I know you probably won’t agree with the analogy – possibly you will vehemently disagree – but would you say your words above would apply to an American who thought continuing the fight in Iraq until that country becomes stable was a good idea? Even if it is not popular?
December 20th, 2007 at 2:42 pmDamn right we’re mainstream. It’s the lunatic fringe we are trying to get rid of.
December 20th, 2007 at 2:44 pmSo did Jim Wright in 1994.
Comment by toasterhead — December 20, 2007 @ 2:42 pm
And by that I mean Tom Foley of course.
December 20th, 2007 at 2:44 pmOh . . and as for the numbnuts that said he has a friend that can write a bot . . BS. I can write bots, I’m a cpu expert . . this is not something that can be done in this particular instance due to the layers. Now go back to Ann Coulter’s blog ya numbnuts.
December 20th, 2007 at 2:45 pmRe 57
And that’s why you’re a repubican. You didn’t have the courage to hold Denny accountable until it was waaaay to late to do anything but that. I am hopeful that the dems will hold Nancy, Rahm et al accountable. It would be great if Nancy lost her seat in the primary. And before you laugh too hard, remember what happened to Johnson. He was run out of the party by the dirty hippies.
December 20th, 2007 at 2:48 pm“I know people who could write software “bots†that would sign the petition thousands of times every day.
Comment by Frank M — December 20, 2007 @ 2:37 pm”
Yes, I’m sure you know people who know how and probably HAVE, but they are all Republicans who aren’t likely to be signing up. Those who press for truth do not usually cheat, but that excludes most all of your friends, I’d guess.
December 20th, 2007 at 2:48 pmKeltoi – did you tell your Republican friends to “move along” when they were ranting and frothing over impeaching Bill Clinton because he lied about a blow job…?
Don’t you get that Bush/Cheney’s offenses against this nation rend the very fabric of our democracy and have partially destroyed the foundation of America itself: the Constitution and the Bill of Rights…?
Don’t you think *that* is worth fighting for??
If not — then what the fresh hell is wrong with you?
December 20th, 2007 at 2:49 pm113,562 signed up and counting…
December 20th, 2007 at 2:49 pmComment by Bobwurst — December 20, 2007 @ 2:48 pm
I don’t live in Denny’s district.
Whats a matter?
December 20th, 2007 at 2:50 pmFrank M knows all about using technology to cheat voting systems; he’s a Republican.
December 20th, 2007 at 2:54 pm#70: It’s easy to generate thousands of gmail accounts in one evening.
Comment by Frank
Ah, the always predictable back-pedal.
Such a tool you are Flake.
December 20th, 2007 at 2:54 pmSounds like Frank M. has some experience in the fraud field. Rove would be proud little trooper.
December 20th, 2007 at 2:54 pmAnd by that I mean Tom Foley of course.
Comment by toasterhead — December 20, 2007 @ 2:44 pm
Foley, as you know, was ousted under the Republican storm in 1994. The speaker before stepped down in scandal. This impeachment movement somehow considering Nancy as an obstructionist doesn’t carry much wind and shouldn’t end her career. She’s a good leader of the House who has good intentions. I think she’ll end up retiring someday on her own accord.
December 20th, 2007 at 2:56 pmI certainly support impeachment hearings against the Vice, but I think it’s clear (after reading his editorial) why it did not get accepted by any media. He really does not lay out any specific case against Cheney. Perhaps he is unable to because it would disrupt his position within the hearings later. The editorial really devoted only one paragraph to evidence (which was only a suggestion of potential crimes) and then the rest was, well, emotional filler. Eh, I guess all I am saying is that Kucinich’s actual “articles of impeachment” is a more moving document. But yeah, if you’re on the fence, read that and then sign the petition.
December 20th, 2007 at 2:57 pmComment by tombaked — December 20, 2007 @ 2:56 pm
A correction:
The speaker before Foley stepped down in scandal.
December 20th, 2007 at 2:58 pmI know people who could write software “bots†that would sign the petition thousands of times every day. -Comment by Frank M
I bet you do, Frank ‘M Stein, I bet you do. They’re probably sending out ‘bot’ virii as you keyboard right now.
Did you know what you’re insinuating is highly illegal?
December 20th, 2007 at 2:58 pmNancy knows you can’t just impeach a President because he refuses to accept the cut-off of war funds.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:01 pmSo are the actions of Bush and Cheyney, though, Zimzone.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:01 pm“You have to offer ANOTHER valid UNIQUE email account to create a GMAIL account, where your password is sent. ”
NOT TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
December 20th, 2007 at 3:07 pmBARTLEBEE,
I was going to call Frank on his BS about network layers myself. Kind of ironic he forgot the ‘physical’ layer while whining about virtual bots, eh?
OTOH, Frank may well be a new version of bot. He doesn’t think for himself, repeats programmed language, and generally wastes people’s time.
I got it! FRANK ‘N BOT
December 20th, 2007 at 3:08 pmDon’t you think *that* is worth fighting for??
If not — then what the fresh hell is wrong with you?
Comment by Leftside Annie — December 20, 2007 @ 2:49 pm
What is wrong with Keltoi is that he is a neoCON posing as a reasonable independent. Pretty much everything he says eventually expose him for what he really is, though.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:09 pmThis conversation’s boring. Where’s ‘republican hates facts’ where you need him? Is he in his class, ‘Pre-calculus with shock therapy?’
December 20th, 2007 at 3:09 pm>>Keltoi – did you tell your Republican friends to “move along†when they were ranting and frothing over impeaching Bill Clinton because he lied about a blow job…?
I didn’t care much for Bubba’s using the Oval Office as a love shack, but I didn’t think he should have been removed either.
>>Don’t you get that Bush/Cheney’s offenses against this nation rend the very fabric of our democracy and have partially destroyed the foundation of America itself: the Constitution and the Bill of Rights…?
I disagree with the severity of your assessment, Annie.
Don’t you think *that* is worth fighting for??
If not — then what the fresh hell is wrong with you?
Comment by Leftside Annie — December 20, 2007 @ 2:49 pm
If I agreed they were destroying the Constitution and threatened the Republic, I am sure I’d be supporting impeachment like you are. I was saying I would likely ignore this peitition because my assessment of the situation is that it will come to nothing and I disagree with its goal, anyway.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:10 pmComment by Frank M — December 20, 2007 @ 2:37 pm
Expert in meaningless.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:10 pmIf I agreed they were destroying the Constitution and threatened the Republic, I am sure I’d be supporting impeachment like you are. I was saying I would likely ignore this peitition because my assessment of the situation is that it will come to nothing and I disagree with its goal, anyway.
Comment by Keltoi
Spoken like a good little neoCON troll.
There is nothing this gang of thieves could do that would bother Keltoi.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:12 pmNo, really, it’s lunatic fringe.
Comment by CaptainMantastic
Lemme see here. 24% Versus 76%
The fringe is always the smaller number in a democracy.
Comment by Xisithrus
If they could just think of a way to get rid of the pesky overwhelming majority of us fringe lunatics, the small minority of right-wing extremists would be free to tear down the schools, start wars with the rest of the defenseless third world countries, eliminate taxes for the uber-wealthy, fill the country with trailer parks and prisons, and ride around all day in their pick ups shooting at stop signs.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:13 pmetter@globe.com; letters@latimes.com; editorial@nytimes.com; WebEditors@newsweek.com
Please write to the editors of the fowllowing media outlets to let them know you are disappointed that they are not covering the support that Wexler is quickly drawing to hold Cheney impeachment hearings. Let them know that Wexler has a growing number of people who support these hearings, but one thing he lacks is support from the major media outlets.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:13 pmComment by jb — December 20, 2007 @ 3:10 pm
I CALL BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
December 20th, 2007 at 3:13 pmEveryone in my family has signed onto Wexler’s petition. I’ve sent his link to everyone I know and it’s catching fire. This is the “mainstream of america” wanting impeachment hearings to begin. I’d take it one step further and say that it’s the “mainstream patriotic” people who can no longer tolerate the destruction of our constitution and our democracy who are supporting Wexler.
If this moves to Conyers and the hearing stage, it will be “curtains” for the Bush/Cheney Cabal.
Besides, this is a mandate of their oath of office and not a “choice” as Miss Nancy would have us all believe. It is nothing short of an OBLIGATION when impeachable offenses have been committed.
Pelosi has two strikes against her now: One on the torture tape situation and another on her continuous statements about “not putting impeachment on the table”. The nerve of her to make this statement when it is not up to her. Pelosi does not have the luxury of “choice” in bringing about impeachment hearings; since she has resisted and, apparently, is trying to strong-arm congress against Wexler’s petitition, I’d say that it may be time to bring up charges against Pelosi for “collusion” and “derelection of duty”.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:15 pm113,916 – it’s going up faster than O’Reilly’s blood pressure at the mention of the word “liberal.”
December 20th, 2007 at 3:15 pm“I know people who could write software “bots†that would sign the petition thousands of times every day.
Comment by Frank M
Yeah, and they all work for Ron Paul.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:15 pmeliminate taxes for the uber-wealthy, fill the country with trailer parks
Comment by shoeless — December 20, 2007 @ 3:13 pm
How would wealthy people care to fill the country with trailer parks?
December 20th, 2007 at 3:16 pmAnd Wexler’s smoking out the media on this as well. We will now see which media outlets are working for us and which ones are working for our enemy within.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:16 pmpablo picasso (#26), I agree. The count won’t go very high unless people outside of our relatively small internet circle are made aware – perhaps through paid newspaper ads or website ads?. The poll I signed months ago never reached 140,000.
I love Wexler as I love anyone helping this issue along – but – at first he said he “will report back to each and every Democratic colleague of mine the true power that exists behind this movement” after the 50,000 mark. Did he do that? Is he still planning to do that? Now he is pushing for 250,000 by the end of the year; and then he will “write a letter to Conyers”. Sounds like a possible weakening of commitment – I hope not.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:16 pmHi Brise: Yes, the numbers are impressive for 5 days, aren’t they? Kudos to Wexler! Now he’s an american patriot who cares about the rule of law in this country.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:17 pmGOP defenders are willing to debate the usefulness of an online petition, but ignore the disaster that their policies have dumped upon this country.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:18 pmComment by Frank M — December 20, 2007 @ 2:37 pm
Expert in meaningless.
Comment by jb
Ditto.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:18 pm“
*** Just a note to TP. Ed Schultz was on vacation today. Norman Goldman was filling in.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:18 pm“You have to offer ANOTHER valid UNIQUE email account to create a GMAIL account, where your password is sent. â€
NOT TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Comment by tombaked
You are correct, but if Francine wanted to do what he says he can do, he would have to set up each e-mail account individually because he would have to enter the code (shown as a graphic) for each e-mail account he set up. He would also have to make unique names which is rather difficult considering the number of people who now have gmail accounts. I had to try two different names just now testing signing up for a gmail account.
I believe that Yahoo has the same kind of safeguards built into getting e-mail addresses. So if Francine wanted to create thousands of new e-mail addresses, he would have to be pretty patient and then he would have to write each individual e-mail address into his “code” for the bot.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:18 pm#105 Yes, Wexler has communicated with everyone who signed his petititon.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:18 pmHeh. Internet petitions are meaningless. You can never prove that someone who signed it is actually a human being. I know people who could write software “bots†that would sign the petition thousands of times every day.
Comment by Frank M — December 20, 2007 @ 2:37 pm
Says the nutwad who spews online poll results ad nauseum. We’re not as dumb as the people you hang out with Jake at the senior center.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:18 pmOpen questions for Pelosi:
Does the House of Representatives exist to do the People’s business, or the Democratic Party’s business?
If you are using your power and your position to further the interests of Party over the People, then how are you not just as bad as the Republican leaders who have done the same?
114,000 now.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:18 pmeliminate taxes for the uber-wealthy, fill the country with trailer parks
Comment by shoeless — December 20, 2007 @ 3:13 pm
How would wealthy people care to fill the country with trailer parks?
Comment by tombaked
In their dream of a corporate feudal society, the redneck serfs need somewhere to live.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:18 pmBill O is the chief Hippocritipotamus
December 20th, 2007 at 3:19 pmRedStateProgressive: Have no fear about Wexler losing momentum. He’s from my state and he says what he means and means what he says. He’s gathering steam; not losing commitment or momentum.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:20 pmI guess Frank M’s bots are the same ones voting for Republicans during the last two elections then???
December 20th, 2007 at 3:20 pmFrank ‘N Bot
December 20th, 2007 at 3:21 pmHere’s another resource for letters to the editors, I use it often:
http://www.democrats.org/page/speakout/letterstoeditors
I just sent a letter to all my local papers about this.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:22 pmBrise: This is the golden question for Pelosi. When the Dems give the lame excuse about dragging their feet on impeachment so the GOP doesn’t have a chance of gaining the white house in 08, it gauls me because this is precisely what they are cricizing the Republicans for doing: politicizing their positions. This is precisely what Reid and Pelosi are doing when they forget that they work for us and not for their party.
How anyone can say today that our two party system is not obsolete and irreparably broken is well beyond my comprehension.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:24 pmI’m so impressed with Wexler’s backbone and commitment to doing what’s right and bringing these officials to the justice they so deserve that perhaps he’d consider being someone’s Veep? Certainly a member of someone’s administration.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:25 pmThere’s no time for impeachment. The Democrats are committed to stopping the war! OOPS! They just funded it to 2009!
They’re too busy passing health care for children. OOPS!. Failed at that too.
They’re too busy eliminating America’s dependence on foreign oil. OOPS! They just passed an energy bill that ensures little or NOTHING will change until 2020.
I’m sorry, why can’t they pursue impeachment?
December 20th, 2007 at 3:26 pmIt’s not just about believing in a “patriotic vision”; it’s about believing in the “rule of law” and the concept that we are all equal under the law.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:27 pm#122 They’re running out of excuses, aren’t they? Pelosi needs to step down or be run out of dodge due to her complicity in the torture tapes along with her derelection of duty to her oath of office on impeachment. Her buddies in Congress need to call for either her ouster or for her to step down.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:28 pmPelosi and Reid either need to move forward with what’s required of their oath of office – OR – move out of the way for a real patriot to do so.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:29 pmI’m sorry, why can’t they pursue impeachment?
Comment by 2MillionLightYearsToAndromeda — December 20, 2007 @ 3:26 pm
They are too busy making cheeseball charts like the one in the earlier thread.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:30 pmIf this moves to Conyers and the hearing stage, it will be “curtains†for the Bush/Cheney Cabal.
Comment by Veritas — December 20, 2007 @ 3:15 pm
Its very obvious to me that if Conyers called Pelosi’s bluff and started impeachment hearings Cheney and Bush would flee the country. Pelosi might flee too since she’s an accessory to the war crime of torture. The wall that Conyer’s needs to break down is paper thin. You’d be suprised how quickly bullies retreat when confronted. I think impeachment would take about one month. If that long. I could get a conviction and I’m not a lawyer.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:33 pmThey are too busy making cheeseball charts like the one in the earlier thread.
Comment by Keltoi
Just like you are too busy being a right wing cheeseball troll.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:33 pm#3 raynman – I couldn’t have said it better myself.
IMPEACH.
~Sean
December 20th, 2007 at 3:36 pmI’m so impressed with Wexler’s backbone and commitment to doing what’s right and bringing these officials to the justice they so deserve that perhaps he’d consider being someone’s Veep? Certainly a member of someone’s administration.
Comment by Veritas — December 20, 2007 @ 3:25 pm
You might want to thank Randi Rhodes for Wexler’s stance. She basically talked him into it by exhaustively explaining it to him ad nauseum.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:36 pmThank you, Randi & Phuck you, Clarence
December 20th, 2007 at 3:37 pmVeritas (#116)
Thanks.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:38 pmHe’s just frustrated because America doesn’t share his love for tyrants.
Comment by BARTLEBEE
Read my comment #110. Francine would have to be one dedicated troll to create 1,000 gmail accounts and then he would have to program every one of those e-mail addresses into his code for the bot. I’m pretty sure that Francine doesn’t have 1) the knowledge or 2) the patience to do this.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:38 pmNOT TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Comment by tombaked — December 20, 2007 @ 3:07 pm
Congratulations, Mr. P – you finally got something right.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:40 pm“people that believe in the very patriotic vision, and they’re all very upset about what they see as the abuse of power by this administration and the failure of Congress to hold them accountable.â€
EXACTLY !!!!
I signed, you should too. Tell your friends. Trolls you can skip the friends because you don’t have any.
Bush/Cheney
Impeachment ‘08/Hague Trials ‘09
Buck Fush
December 20th, 2007 at 3:46 pmVeritas (#111 pertaining to my #105)
But he said he “will report back to each and every Democratic colleague of mine” at 50,000. Has he done that yet?
December 20th, 2007 at 3:48 pmYou might want to thank Randi Rhodes for Wexler’s stance. She basically talked him into it by exhaustively explaining it to him ad nauseum.
Comment by 2MillionLightYearsToAndromeda
That’s where I first heard about it.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:52 pmTo end the discussion of the Bot complaint… I’m actually a professional web developer, with 12 years experience with C/C++ and over a dozen other languages (including web technologies like Ajax, PHP, MySQL, ASP, etc…)
Yes, you can create a Bot to submit faulty signatures. However – if the webmasters of the site were careful when writing their script, it is relatively easy to filter out multiple signatures. You can’t filter out 100% of the repeats, but you can detect and remove the vast majority of them. You can do this by using a combination of cookies, IP logging, proxy detection, email verification, and checking the zip-code against the IP.
A bot could still get around these restrictions, but it would have to be a very sophisticated bot. In my professional opinion, I highly doubt such a bot would be made just to screw with this online survey. Online surveys don’t mean anything legally – it’s just a guage, and not scientific. Everyone knows that.
Now that it’s been settled… back to the topic at hand:
IMPEACH!
~Sean
December 20th, 2007 at 3:55 pm“If everything you charge in #52 is correct, Bush would already be jail…
“Captainmanondog”
Really. You’re beyond reason dude.
December 20th, 2007 at 4:04 pmCaptainMantastic, you stretch it a bit. The dropping of the nuclear bombs on Japan was after an extensive internal battle that had determined the Japanese were not going to surrender, the island hopping attacks we had conducted showed just how entrenched the japanese military was. There was strong evidence pointing to how convinced the people of japan were continuing fighting if we were to conventionally invade their country.
The decision for dropping the bombs were not an easy one, or a “slam dunk” situation. Truman agonized over it.
As for your historic revisioning, I’ll just leave you to believe what may have happened in that little box of yours.
Bush conducted a preemptive attack on shotty evidence and can’t acknowledge how miserable the execution of the aftermath has been.
Bush’s initial policies were formulated in a vaccum. He ignored the military minds of the day. Those who stated the conflict would require of 300,000 troops were publicly ridiculed. We were wrongly led to believe there were ties to AQ. There were none. We were told of WMD’s and rolling chemical labs, Rumsfeld stated we knew where the weapons were. They were wrong.
You think we are safer. AQ had a plan to initially attack us spreading fear. Then they would watch us destroy and bankrupt ourselves. And Bush is following right along.
December 20th, 2007 at 4:11 pm#141- thx, scary.
December 20th, 2007 at 4:12 pm#105- i’m expecting Wexler to be a dem and cave. Exploding the signature count may just push him into the spotlight…whereafter he can’t easily hide. Then he may actually see principled-stands are good business.
Poor marginalized Dennis though. Who’d you like to see as his VP runner when he goes independent?
If President toasterhead were inaugurated tommorrow, I’m sure you would give all the president’s policies you complain about today, a more reasonable, thoughtful review. Especially, if you knew, that the people you just pledged to defend and protect, depended on it.
Comment by CaptainMantastic — December 20, 2007 @ 3:55 pm
Actually, if I were inaugurated tomorrow – a rather odd date for an inauguration, I might add – I would not pledge to defend and protect the people of the United States, but rather the Constitution of the United States. The Presidential Oath of Office I would recite, as mandated in Article II, Section I of the Constitution, reads thusly:
Of course, as President I would provide for the common defense and preserve domestic tranquility using all powers granted to me in the Constitution.
Know what I wouldn’t do? Torture people. Detain people without trial. Invade a country for no reason. Wiretap people without a warrant. That sort of thing.
December 20th, 2007 at 4:13 pmNever before has a President and Vice President deserved to be impeached more than these.
Yet our Speaker of the House of Representatives, Nancy Pelosi, is working behind the scenes with House Democrats, not to build a consensus for impeachment, but to do just the opposite: to keep others from succeeding in their effort to hold this president accountable by means of impeachment.
With the FISA bill still looming in the Senate, and a new war funding bill passed with no structure in place to Bring our Troops Home, we have to show the leaders of the House and Senate that this is still our country.
Please read the petition to replace Pelosi with a Democratic Representative who will bring impeachment proceedings to the floor. A Question of Privilege under House Rules IX can declare the Speaker seat vacant.
It can be done, it must be done. We have waited long enough.
http://www.petitiononline.com/everyman/petition.html
December 20th, 2007 at 4:15 pm#144 – Neo-Cons pleaded with AQ to become straw-transgressors. Sewing fear to dismantle treasury doors. It’s a very transparent scenario…just no one has balls/access to prove it in court/congress. We’re in limbo, while the blind-loyalty of trolls persists.
December 20th, 2007 at 4:17 pmIf President toasterhead were inaugurated tommorrow….
Toasterhead for president! I nominate toasterhead – will anyone second the nomination?
December 20th, 2007 at 4:21 pmI am not surprised at the level of treason displayed by frank m and keltoi today; the lunatic fringe of the far right wing has been danger to American freedom for decades. The lack of terrorist attacks lately in the US is purely and simply because Osama and Ql Qaeda don’t need to bother: keltoi and frank and bigfoot are busy doing their work for them. The disrespect shown the Constitution and rule of law places rightwing extremists at the very edges of civilization, where the only way to get things done is by genocide and the Big Lie. What a blight and cancer on our country!
December 20th, 2007 at 4:29 pmThese Congressmen should be lauded for providing a credible means for Americans to voice their approval of this impeachment movement. I wish they would have included every congressmen’s phone number on the site and asked each of us to make a call in addition to signing the petition. That would make it harder for the MSM to ignore this movement. If you signed the petition, will you also call your representative?
December 20th, 2007 at 4:31 pmToasterhead for president! I nominate toasterhead – will anyone second the nomination?
Comment by mary
I second.
December 20th, 2007 at 5:05 pmIMPEACH!!!!
December 20th, 2007 at 5:22 pm“Do the right thing, goddammit!”
Comment by LividLib — December 20, 2007 @ 2:06 pm
My sentiments exactly! Scream it from the Rooftops!
December 20th, 2007 at 5:29 pmThank you Bilbobaggins! I should have known I could count on you.
Have you seen Toasterhead’s blog? It’s very good! And did you know that apparently he got married last week?
December 20th, 2007 at 5:42 pmToasterhead for President!
Pop-Tarts for All!
December 20th, 2007 at 6:18 pmhey folks, so where do you go?
December 20th, 2007 at 6:37 pmre #52
Did the Truman Administration lie and falsify evidence to get us into the Korean War?
No, but it did publicly exclude the Korean Peninsula from a list of areas that were deemed to be of strategic importance to the U.S. Many scholars think that this omission caused the Soviet Union and China to believe that North Korea could launch an invasion with no intervention by us. I suppose one could make the case that not declaring Korea to be an area of strategic importance when it in fact was a “lie”. This would be a fatuous assertion, to be sure, but not much more than the assertion that Bush “lied us into war in Iraq.”
Did the Truman Administration illegally wiretap and conduct surveillance on U.S. citizens?
Actually, yes. Provided of course that detaining a U.S. citizen 24×7 in a barbed wire enclosure surrounded by armed guards constitutes “surveillance”. But perhaps you have forgotten the internment of U.S. citizens of Japanese ancestry during WWII. Also, read any decent book on Naval and Army intelligence operations to learn of the illegal message intercepts done during and after WWII.
Did the Truman Administration illegally torture non-combatants and hold them indefinitely without charge or legal counsel?
“Torture?” not that I am aware of. “Hold indefinitely without charge?” Absolutely. See the answer to the second question above.
Did the Truman Administration rig two elections?
No evidence that it did. However, I believe that Truman was trailing in all the polls leading up to his successful bid for reelection so something fishy must have been involved in his victory. After all, we learned in 2004 that if the polls disagreed with the election results, then the polls had to be right and the election had to be crooked.
Did the Truman Administration fire U.S. Attorneys on false charges of incompetence and replace them with partisan hacks in order to launch trumped-up election fraud investigations before a midterm election?
No.
Did the Truman Administration ignore intelligence that could have prevented the deaths of more than 3,000 Americans?
The jury is out on that one depending on whether you believe that the failure to prepare for 1) the invasion of South Korea by the north and 2) the entry of China into the Korean War was a failure of intelligence or a failure to appreciate the meager intelligence available. One could make a credible argument for either side as this issues are rarely as clear before the fact as they are after. However; one could also say the same for the 9/11 attack.
In the real world intelligence is full of ambiguities and uncertainties and the meaning of intelligence data usually becomes clear only after it is too late. Reasonable adults recognize this and understand that Roosevelt didn’t “ignore” warnings about the Pearl Harbor attack, Truman didn’t “ignore” warnings about Korea, and Bush didn’t “ignore” warnings about 9/11. Irrational partisans are full of conspiracy theories of how FDR “knew the Japanese were going to attack” or Bush “ignored clear intelligence that 9/11 was going to occur.”
Just curious…
Hope the answers help.
Regards……
December 20th, 2007 at 11:47 pm.
Wexler promised to move at 50,000 signatures. He failed to move ON the 50,000 and instead moved the goal posts to 250,000. WHAT’S NEXT? A MILLION? Then what? MORE EMPTY PROMISES?
.
December 21st, 2007 at 1:22 amOnly Impeachment Can Unify Our Once-Great Nation
Can we really live with not even trying?
Failure to impeach is complicity — approval — exoneration for the regime.
–
December 21st, 2007 at 2:41 amHave you seen Toasterhead’s blog? It’s very good! And did you know that apparently he got married last week?
Comment by mary — December 20, 2007 @ 5:42 pm
Aww, thank you! And it is true – I’m now half Cuban. :)
Well we’ve got a sh$thead for president now, so pretty much any other kind of head should be an improvement.
Comment by BARTLEBEE — December 20, 2007 @ 5:45 pm
Ha! Mind if I adopt this as my campaign slogan? :)
December 21st, 2007 at 8:59 ambigfoot – bigfoot was a haux for cash…just as bushies killed a million innocents for cash.
December 21st, 2007 at 11:33 amThe kindest possible explanation for dem leadership inaction on impeachment…and perceived polling antipathy…is that the GOPers are so morally and financially corrupt that no amount of criminal evidence could make them turn on their faux-messiahs.
Just b/c past wrongs have gone unpunished…does it follow that present ones shouldn’t?
Besides, the present wrongs aren’t good-faith over-protectionism in the face of real threats, they’re tools under the concious, manipulative, employ of war criminals/profiteers/aggravators.
I earnestly advise you to internalize the relevant information…for the longer you stall…the more painful it will be when you do.
Happy Holidays
hoax
167- clinton broke the law…spurned by a petty, irrelevant, entrapment mission. Bush et al have conciously violated our most coveted fundamental rights and perogotives. That’s a fact that 11 of 11 jury members would agree upon. Oh, for about, 100 charges.
December 21st, 2007 at 11:40 amYour suggestion that these offenses are comparable inherently disqualifies you from any substantive discussion here.
Please try.
Gee is this why documents are being destroyed right and left and historic buildings are being burned.
December 21st, 2007 at 2:08 pmNot only did the republicans get to run rough shod over the last democratic president with the theater of the absurd, they are able to now run rough shod over this democratic congress by the very fear of looking like what pugs did to Clinton and many dim witted democrats are falling for this pile of crap and the complicit corporate media are leading them docilely, herding the dull eyed sheep to the guillotine. The Republicans are playing war games and Nazi cop to the death while the dems are playing hopscotch and giggling with the admonission to their constituents “Oh dear me and goodness gracious, lets just clasp our pearls and gasp and sputter, we can’t stoop to their level” even though that is where the battle is and even though the entire country is behind them. It is obvious why they are loosing this unaposed battle. Thank you for standing up Senator Wexler
I fully support an impeachment trial.
December 21st, 2007 at 8:02 pmI will keep the loony left busy for months and will deliver the White House to a Republican in ‘08.
Whether you suffer from impeachophobia or not, one thing is true.
Any comparison to the Clinton Farce is OxyMoronic.
===
December 22nd, 2007 at 3:28 pm