Iraq: the ‘greatest American military comeback’ since 1864?
By on Dec 23rd, 2007 at 12:21 pm
Iraq: the ‘greatest American military comeback’ since 1864?
In yesterday’s New York Times, Brookings Institution analyst Michael O’Hanlon published an op-ed on the war in Iraq, in which he applauded the historic efforts of his college friend, Gen. David Petraeus:
Are we witnessing the greatest American military comeback late in a war since Sherman’s march to the sea in 1864? [...]
This is largely thanks to the surge-based strategy of Gen. David Petraeus and the heroic efforts — and sacrifice — of so many American and Iraqi troops and police officers.
O’Hanlon joins Sens. John McCain (R-AZ) and Joe Lieberman (I-CT), who are rushing to declare victory in the war, against the advice of military commanders.
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In the neocon blissful state of denial, they continue to spin the lie! Vulgar and appalling. They obviously are totally living in a propagandized bubble of deceit and denial.
December 23rd, 2007 at 12:35 pmThey will realize that “saying doesn’t make it so” despite the degree to which we may wish it to be so. Wake up, fools.
December 23rd, 2007 at 12:36 pmThis war is an abhorrent failure and black mark on the soul of this country which will not be absolved for decades to come. Essentially, by our illegal/illicit actions in occupying a sovereign country for the purposes of stealing their oil, is that we’ve succeeded on only one front: Lowering our moral standards before th entire world community and “growing a new army over there of young people who hate the US”.
December 23rd, 2007 at 12:38 pmmaybe i’m not that familiar with sherman’s march; was it riddled by missing billions of dollars, a prisoner scandal, and widespread incompetence in the 4-year period preceding it?
December 23rd, 2007 at 12:44 pmFrom the article:
And now, for a reality check:
That cease-fire was declared on October 31, 2007, and was followed by the down-turn in violence. It is due to expire the end of April, the aproximate start of the U.S. troop reduction.
My guess is that we will then see a massive upswing in violence, necessitating a new “surge” and another Friedman unit, taking us to the 2008 elections.
December 23rd, 2007 at 12:45 pmSince TP hasn’t posted an open thread:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/23/opinion/23dowd.html?_r=1&ref=opinion&oref=slogin
Maureen Dowd nails the Clinton in the New York Times.
December 23rd, 2007 at 12:51 pmMaureen Dowd nails the Clinton in the New York Times.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — December 23, 2007 @ 12:51 pm
maureen Dowd wishes she had nailed the Clinton. she’s so bone-deep ugly even Bill wouldn’t do her. Jason Hitler loves the “liberal” press, when it suits him. Hypocrite.
December 23rd, 2007 at 1:00 pmPlease God, no!! Not another “Mission Accomplished” campaign from noeconservative liars and murderers like Joe Lieberman, Dick Cheney, and George W. Bush.
December 23rd, 2007 at 1:00 pmSo, Jason, what’s your take on the latest rightwing blowjob given to Betrayus? More lies, or more blowjob?
December 23rd, 2007 at 1:02 pmThe surge is a lie.
December 23rd, 2007 at 1:02 pmThe Bushies changed tactics and bought off all of the highly skilled Sunni insurgents who most likely were members of Saddam’s Republican Guard.
That is what has been key to the success of the “Surge”.
The people who were fighting against us and aiding al Queda are now fighting with us against al Queda.
Patreaus had nothing to do with that happening. The Bushies are mearly using him as a P.R. flack who is unassailable.
Mission accomplished one mo’ time folks ? Deja vue all over again.
December 23rd, 2007 at 1:04 pmWell, I quess it was only a matter of time before the marvel of Rocky’s comeback against that big Russian guy was surpassed.
December 23rd, 2007 at 1:06 pm#6 – precisely. I always suspected as the Mehdi army sank into sectarian bloodshed that Al-Sadr had lost operational control of them; they were his militia in name only. When he called this cease-fire after the killing of pilgrims, I knew were were going to be in trouble as soon as he called it off.
Because the Mehdi army was bad enough for us when they were splitting their time killing Sunnis and the Badr Brigades – wait until they reemerge as a full-time anti-occupation force.
December 23rd, 2007 at 1:09 pmfirst victory in the war on christmas and now this. what a week!
let’s have a parade!
December 23rd, 2007 at 1:13 pmWhat a total crock!
Why aren’t they showing us all this “progress” every night on television?
Just because they say things are better does not make it so.
December 23rd, 2007 at 1:13 pmComment by BARTLEBEE — December 23, 2007 @ 1:10 pm
who’s jason?
December 23rd, 2007 at 1:14 pmWhile a lack of troops in sufficient numbers was a big cause of Bush’s poorly planned Iraq war strategy, the real “success” of the Surge is a change in STRATEGY. Gen. Petrtaeus has REVERSED the Bremmer strategy of disbanding the military, debathification, and sending thousands of armed Iraqis off to fend for themselves.
What has worked are the oldfashioned tactics of Amnesty, Bribery, and Co-option. This has lead the Iraqi’s to expose the foreign insurgents, removing Al Qaeda in Iraq’s major strength…Invisibility to American firepower.
This should have been the plan from the beginning…Five Years ago. Ideology was allowed to trump reality. It is a bitter lesson learned the hard way with our troops and Iraq’s civilians paying the price .
December 23rd, 2007 at 1:15 pmWhy aren’t they showing us all this “progress†every night on television?
Comment by plunger
Good question !
And has anyone else noticed that since the surge started that there are no more of the hotel balcony reporting like Michael Ware and others used to do.
All the ‘reporting’ is done from the Green Zone. The only thing the surge has accomplished is to further censor any truthful information and to feed the ‘homeland’ propaganda.
The surge as a success is a lie !!
∞
December 23rd, 2007 at 1:29 pmAll Jason apparently ever wants to talk about, are the Clintons….He’s apparently obsessed with them
- – Yeeh, Jason is Karl Rove? Bleech.
December 23rd, 2007 at 1:35 pmJust read this thread, the agony from the left is almost palpable. They just can’t bring it upon themselves to accept that the United States can be successful, they hate America so.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 23, 2007 @ 1:31 pm
Look who’s here! Thoroughly dishonest Bigfoot strikes again.
Even if the “gesture” was noble, it’s effectively been destroyed through the administration’s incompetence, cronyism, corporate dishonesty and simple corruption. You’re still clinging to your pitiful belief that the Occupation has anything to do with democracy, and that military intervention in the short term will have any long-lasting effect, when none of the infrastructure, politics, or sectarian issues has been resolved.
Your pathetic insults that people on the Left are “unamerican” are so predictable and childish that we laugh, ha ha, whenever you appear with one of your silly diatribes.
Why is it that you never have an iota of evidence to support these pompous little speeches, bigfoot?
December 23rd, 2007 at 1:39 pmO. Bigfoot
Bush’s latest request for funding would keep SA (Which is gearing up for the 2010 Soccer World Cup) going for a few years.
This troop “Surge” can only last a certain length of time because you do not have the troops to maintain it.
And finally, you are only getting anywhere near peace because the exact same Sunni’s you were fighting last year have wiped out some of the competition and now been declared “Allies.”
You cannot win a war where victory has not been defined before hand. It is a rule of war that goes back to Sun Tzu. You cannot win this war because each time it looks like winning, you will end up with the goal posts being shifted.
December 23rd, 2007 at 1:39 pmBush Trample Iraq’s Democracy
A hurried-up renewal of the United Nations mandate that supports the U.S. occupation of Iraq this week trampled on the very idea of democracy.
The next battle will be the U.S.-Iraq treaty that will govern the long-term presence of U.S. forces in Iraq, including possible permanent bases. The United States and Iraq are supposed to conclude that accord by July, 2008. That accord will be subject to parliamentary approval, says Maliki–but who knows? He might try to impose that one, too.
In any case, the just-renewed UN mandate will expire in December, 2008. At the point, without a U.S.-Iraq agreement, the occupation will be illegal. If Maliki does submit it to parliament, what are the chances that body will approve it by December? Slim to none. And what happens if they don’t? Stay tuned.
December 23rd, 2007 at 1:45 pmhttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-dreyfuss/maliki-bush-trample-iraq_b_77903.html
December 23rd, 2007 at 1:46 pmplunger
It is because the American news doesn’t cover real news anymore.
Soldiers die in combat, they survive combat, neither is in real terms news. What is news is that the latest budget request for Iraq war funding is going to cost you enough to fund a rapidly developing third world country’s entire budget, for several years.
What is news is how much money is being pumped into Iraq without any internal controls to make sure it arrives at its destination or that it does something useful. The sheer lack of accounting is news.
What is news is the lack of political progress. You get quiet periods in a war which come just before people start killing each other in earnest and this could well be the start of a quiet period.
What is news is the lack of power in the hinterlands and the silence from reporters outside of the Green Zone.
What is also news, is what is happening in America with your economy. Bin Laden did not want simply to beat America in a straight up fight, his fight is economic, he wants your economy to collapse and for America to break its economic back.
So long as the Iraq war carries on, Osama is winning. When the war stops, and you end up with a president with brains, then the worm will start to turn.
December 23rd, 2007 at 1:48 pmheres how it goes
1/ America is arming the sunnis NOW
2/ America will attack Iran
3/ The Sunni will attack Iraqi Shia aligned with Iran
December 23rd, 2007 at 1:48 pmComment by O. Bigfoot — December 23, 2007 @ 1:31 pm
The so called “left” does NOT hate America. This is total bullsh*t. What we hate, is what Bush has DONE to America, and what Bush has DONE to the rest of the world in the Name of America.
Bush’s policy in Iraq will Never be a Success because of the wasted lives, wasted treasure, and wasted world wide good will towards America after 911.
Enmity in the Middle east is Bush’s legacy.
December 23rd, 2007 at 1:48 pmPlease everybody relax, as we move into the new year we will welcome a new campaign, Operation Enduring Victory. Troop levels will be maintained to maximize victory status in the enduring effort to keep progress levels stablized.
December 23rd, 2007 at 1:49 pmLast summer, Iraq’s parliament – yes, the very parliament that was elected by millions of Iraqis with painted thumbs in 2005 – voted to endorse the notion that the renewal of the UN Security Council mandate for the American occupation for 2008 be submitted to a vote in parliament. In that vote, 144 members of the 275-member body voted to make clear that the parliament gets a say. The Iraqi constitution, flawed as it is, requires (Article 73, Section 2) that any international treaties and agreements be subject to a two-thirds approval by the parliament.
Pressured by the United States, however, Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki flagrantly ignored both the parliamentary vote and the constitutional requirement. He submitted the request to the UNSC on his own authority, and got it. Some democracy.
December 23rd, 2007 at 1:50 pmBadger
You are talking to a rightwinger. These are the guys who bemoan what the left is doing to America’s morals and then champion torture.
You are talking to the guys who talk in serious, somber tones about the American economy and then strive to bankrupt it whenever they have a president in power.
To be called un- or anti-American by them is a compliment.
December 23rd, 2007 at 1:51 pmthe Iraqi government ordered its death squads to halt their attacks on people. That’s all.
December 23rd, 2007 at 1:52 pmMore than 800 U.S. troops have lost their lives in Iraq from Feb. 1, when additional troops started arriving for the surge, through Dec. 21.
December 23rd, 2007 at 1:54 pmThe surge only lost more troops
threal results are
1/ Al Sadr has been on a ceasefire for 3 months now
2/ The Sunnis get $300 each per week to behave
3/ The Iraqi government ordered its death squads to halt their attacks on people
THIS IS FAR FROM OVER – The neocons are lying
December 23rd, 2007 at 1:58 pm2008 – Bring em on part 2 will hit the fan
December 23rd, 2007 at 1:59 pmShorter BigMoron:
Don’t worry, be happy.
**yawn**
December 23rd, 2007 at 2:00 pmWords have no meaning to the Repugs; let them declare victory then move on. They will not leave Iraq in peace until they can claim victory, so do it already.
December 23rd, 2007 at 2:02 pmPresident Bush isn’t running for President.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 23, 2007 @ 1:57 pm
True, thankfully..BUT How much daylight is there between his policies and the Republican Candidates ( Ron Paul not included) that a vying to relace him???
I’m sincerely Hoping the answer to this question is not lost on the American Voters.
December 23rd, 2007 at 2:03 pmTroop levels will be maintained to maximize victory status in the enduring effort to keep progress levels stablized.
- – Uh huh. Tell me, why do we still have 75,000 troops in Germany?
December 23rd, 2007 at 2:04 pmComment by O. Bigfoot — December 23, 2007 @ 1:57 pm
I see, this is another example of Bigfoot’s magical superpower that allows him to read the minds of the “mainstream”. How would you have any a vague idea of what “the mainstream” thinks, Bigfoot? You’re so far off to the jackbook-licking Right that you have no idea at all, just whatever kook ideas you make up and project on everyone else.
And here’s a clue for you, fool: President Bush is in office for another year. You’re even more delusional than I already think if you believe his incompetent administration won’t be a factor in the election. But maybe you’ve got another magical super power, one that will wipe the memories of “the mainstream” about the last seven years of disastrous incompetence.
December 23rd, 2007 at 2:04 pmThe mainstream knows who and what you are, and it’s easy to discern, when there is absolutely nothing positive coming from the far left, despite all the evidence that totally refutes your assertions.
Really, seems to me the mainstream is as skeptical as we are:
http://www.warpolls.com/
I could post another 20 polls showing the same results.
I know how much the far-left is counting on the United States’ defeat in Iraq to bolster it’s own political aspirations.
Here’s an alien concept for you. The “far-left” isn’t mainly concerned about politics when it comes to the war in Iraq. Most of us are concerned about loss of life. Had thought ever crossed your mind? That there might be people out there who care more about people than politics?
And here’s another news flash for you: President Bush isn’t running for President. You are more than welcome to continue campaigning against him, however.
Comment by O. Bigfoot
Here’s a news flash for you. We’re trying to end a war here. That’s what this thread is about.
December 23rd, 2007 at 2:09 pmIf you love America, then you will want nothing less than success.
Otherwise, negativity, desperation, and vitriol will be the far-left’s legacy.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 23, 2007 @ 2:10 pm
100% proof that BigMoron is not a patriot, but a mere flag-humper.
December 23rd, 2007 at 2:12 pmTake careful note of those who, today, worship the Chimperror. Then, consider what they will say after the GOP nominee “turns” on Bush after the convention.
I am eagerly awaiting the rhetoric when the GOP nominee finds himself running against two opponents. George Bush and Bill Clinton!
December 23rd, 2007 at 2:18 pmRemember the old saying about “winning the war while losing the peace”? Well, the “peace” was lost when the first Iraqi civilian died. If we slaughtered every “terrorist” on the planet, we would still lose.
December 23rd, 2007 at 2:21 pmThe major flaw in the reasoning of these Bush War Supporters is that they believe that the invasion of Iraq was the right thing to do in the first place. It was not, so anything they say about how it can be considered any kind of “victory” is based on a false premise.
December 23rd, 2007 at 2:22 pmMr ohanlon should be reminded this is an occupation. The war is over, according to general mcflightsuit.
December 23rd, 2007 at 2:25 pmThe man talks out his ass and the Times should be ashamed to be presenting this hogwash to their readership.
What would VICTORY look like in IRAQ??? No acts of terrorism. No cooperation with islamist forces like Al Qaeda. N o weapons of mass destruction. No deaths of American troops. Iraqi oil for sale on the world market.????
We had all this BEFORE Bush Invaded.
December 23rd, 2007 at 2:26 pm#21 Actually, we could have “won†the Iraq war several years ago if we didn’t care about the Iraqi people.
4% of the population dead, 25% refugees, internal and external. Shattered economy, joblessness, no hope for improvement.
Wow, interesting definition of caring.
December 23rd, 2007 at 2:28 pmIf you love America, then you will want nothing less than success.
Otherwise, negativity, desperation, and vitriol will be the far-left’s legacy.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 23, 2007 @ 2:10 pm
I’ve got news for you, Bigjackboot, you don’t get to tell other people what defines their love of their country. I realize that in totalitarian land, the SS gets to do that, but this is still the US of A.
That last sentence, though, is priceless. It pretty much defines what we can expect out of the Far Right when they lose control of Congress and the White House next year. Which ever Democrat gets elected President can expect the lies and vitriol to begin even before the inauguration, just as it did in 1992.
December 23rd, 2007 at 2:29 pmPerhaps you need to go live in a nation where the heavy hand of oppresion keeps you in check, for freedom apparently just isn’t for you.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 23, 2007 @ 2:30 pm
Funny, that’s exactly what is obvious about you. You’d be much happier living under Putin than in a democracy.
December 23rd, 2007 at 2:33 pm#53 – And what choice the Iraqi anti-occupation resistance, who outnumber the “terrorists” at least 20 to 1 have?
Because “the terrorists” are a non-entity from a strategic standpoint in Iraq, your fevered delusions notwithstanding.
December 23rd, 2007 at 2:34 pm#56 – wow, such delayed outrage – upset about a genocide 15 years after the fact, and the mass graves a decade late. Where were you when the left was decrying the genocide and demanding we end our relationship with Saddam Hussein?
Blithering about the importance of containing Iran, or sucking on your mother’s saggy teat, one imagines.
December 23rd, 2007 at 2:36 pm#59 No hope for improvement? You don’t have much faith in the Iraqi people, do you?
Not under the heel of a foreign occupation that is well-documented to be actively fomenting violence between factions to keep the occupation in tact.
December 23rd, 2007 at 2:38 pmDo I need to remind you, Mr. Bigfoot, that the majority of Saddam’s genocide, etc. occured when he was OUR ally. Remember Rumsfeld”d handshake. Remember the vote in OUR Congress to INCREASE agricultural aid to Saddam AFTER her gassed the KURDs in Halabja??
Sadaam was a Brutal Dictator who was Contained. He was replaced by a Brutal War , and if it remains contained, we’ll be lucky.
December 23rd, 2007 at 2:38 pmIt’s funny how upset the righties get about the dictator Saddam – yet repeatedly, their would-be domestic dictators in the GOP declare that the “greatest civil liberty is to be kept alive”. Well, compared to the sanctions, war, occupation, and civil war, Saddam did a pretty good job keeping his people alive. Sounds to me that by Romney’s standards, he was preserving their civil rights better than we are.
December 23rd, 2007 at 2:42 pmPerhaps you need to go live in a nation where the heavy hand of oppresion keeps you in check, for freedom apparently just isn’t for you.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 23, 2007 @ 2:30 pm
You must haven’t been paying attention, have you, BigMoron? We’re closer to living in that country everyday — and you haven’t a clue.
Don’t worry, be happy…
December 23rd, 2007 at 2:45 pmGeorge Bush the current megalomaniac, compulsive-obsessive, sociopath with his divine religious mandate and being the messenger of his god that has not turned this country on its head, but created a world mess, that it may never recover from the wars, conflicts, hate, fear and alienation.
December 23rd, 2007 at 2:47 pmPerhaps you need to go live in a nation where the heavy hand of oppresion keeps you in check
You already are O.BigPrick
December 23rd, 2007 at 2:50 pmToo bad Turkey is going to throw a fifty pound monkey wrench into the whole works.
Once they launch “Operation Peace for Southern Anatolia” into northern Iraq, that region will become a bit of a sticky wicket.
December 23rd, 2007 at 2:50 pmFor the record…I AM NOT a supporter of Saddam HUssein, Nor was I a supporter of Saddam Hussein WHEN he was ALIVE. He was a BRUTAL Dictator who exploited and repressed his people. He got what he deserved.
I just wish the good name of America wasn’t wrecked in the process.
December 23rd, 2007 at 2:52 pmTry reading it sometime.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 23, 2007 @ 2:40 pm
You need to be telling the Bush (Mis)administration to read the Constitution, O’Bigfoot-in-mouth.
December 23rd, 2007 at 2:55 pmIsn’t it funny how righties always speak such sympathetic words of the Iraqi people while ignoring their wishes.
The overwhelming majority of Iraqis have – ever since the beginning of the occupation – wanted us out, and thought life was better under Saddam. How bad have we screwed that country up to have engendered that sentiment?
But the concern the righties have for the Iraqis is purely rhetorical – the million dead, the five million refugees, well they just pretend they don’t even exist. And their sentiment that we should leave, and the sentiment that we made their country worse than under a brutal (but contained) dictator? Well, they just have to pretend that sentiment doesn’t exist.
Instead, we get the racist, paternalistic missives from warmongers looking for an excuse to vicariously thrill to the murder committed on our nation’s behalf.
December 23rd, 2007 at 2:55 pmExactly how have you been oppresed? Specifics, please. No theory.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 23, 2007 @ 2:49 pm
Well, I could go into the whole “being female in an androcentric society” lecture, but it would be lost on you.
I have a friend in the UK, and every time I talk to him on the phone I know someone is scooping up our conversation to screen it for certain words and phrases. I don’t have the confidence I had in the pre-Bush years that I could actually have a private conversation with a friend form outside this country.
Maybe that doesn’t seem like oppression to you, but it is to me. And personally, I don’t care to wait until ALL of my civil rights are gone to start thinking about them.
Run along now BigMoron, go be happy and carefree. I’ll fight for your rights while I’m fighting for my own — there are always free-riders in in the good fight — and they are usually people like you.
December 23rd, 2007 at 2:58 pm#1 Comment by BARTLEBEE Ditto to your comment.
As the lies continue our soldiers die. Notice how other countries are leaving or left Iraq to save their soldiers.
December 23rd, 2007 at 2:58 pmNot the US we’re there to protect the oil fields not the Iraq people. This was never a war it’s a civil war within Iraq’s people. The US is there to get oil rights control as was the hopes in Iran. The news about this has been out for a while but Americans seem not to mind the Bush Administration stealing taxpayers money or making the US the real Axis of Evil. Does any American really care about the troops or is it just lip service like the White House/GOP gives.
I’m with Badger.
My biggest gripe is when the Pentagon started to go after Saddam with units that were pulled out of Afghanistan.
Where they were being used in the hunt for bin Laden.
Remember bin Laden? The guy who actually attacked the United States?
December 23rd, 2007 at 2:58 pmThe fact is, I have more freedoms than I had when President Bush took office in 2001.
So, again, specifics please, no theory.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 23, 2007 @ 2:55 pm
Define how you have more freedoms than you did in 2001. Specifics please, not theory.
December 23rd, 2007 at 2:59 pmMonday: 2 US Soldiers, 34 Iraqis Killed; 61 Iraqis Wounded
December 23rd, 2007 at 3:00 pmTuesday: 53 Iraqis Killed, 66 Wounded
Wednesday: 57 Iraqis Killed, 12 Wounded
Thursday: 1 US Soldier, 26 Iraqis Killed, 36 Iraqis Wounded
Friday: 14 Iraqis Killed, 10 Wounded
Saturday: 1 US soldier, 14 Iraqis Killed; 22 Iraqis Wounded
xactly how have you been oppresed? Specifics, please. No theory.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 23, 2007 @ 2:49 pm
and exactly how were Iraqis being opressed when Bush attacked? Be specific, and honest. Not that you will, since it is impossible for you to be truthful. the Iraqis were far better off before Shock and Awe then they have been since, and many, many thousands were not dead ,as they are now. Iraqi women were the freest in the Middle East, the most highly educated as well. Not so any more. Your support of mass murder and genocide under bushco is not a theory, but a sad, sick fact that points to your lack of humanity and your hatred of American ideals. Terrorism is much more common now worldwide than before Bush became the world’s leading terrorist. You have nothing but lies and propaganda , bigfooy, it’s a good thing you’re in the fringe lunatic minority, and most Americans know better than you. otherwise we’d all have to learn to goosestep as well as you have.
December 23rd, 2007 at 3:01 pmI am completely comfortable with the Bush Administration’s interpretation of my Constitutional rights, which have resulted in more freedoms than I had under the previous Administration.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 23, 2007 @ 2:57 pm
You are a bigger idiot than anyone has ever given you credit for then.
December 23rd, 2007 at 3:02 pmGo back you your koolaide laden dreams, then moron.
You are too stupid to even debate with.
I am completely comfortable with the Bush Administration’s interpretation of my Constitutional rights, which have resulted in more freedoms than I had under the previous Administration.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 23, 2007 @ 2:57 pm
Specifics, please. This is another one of those cases where you simply bloviate over and over without providing a scintilla of evidence.
December 23rd, 2007 at 3:03 pmUtter nonsense, of course. Please, tell me: exactly how am I opressed? The fact is, I have more freedoms than I had when President Bush took office in 2001.
So, again, specifics please, no theory.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 23, 2007 @ 2:55 pm
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utter nonsense is right. you now cannot travel with toothpaste in your luggage, you must remove your shoes at airports, many thousands of Aemrican citizens are denied basic rights of movement because their names resemble some suspected terrorist, etc., etc. utter nonsense is your nickname.
December 23rd, 2007 at 3:03 pmSlave labour that shames America
Migrant workers chained beaten and forced into debt, exposing the human cost of producing cheap food
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article3263500.ece
December 23rd, 2007 at 3:05 pm#85, don’t forget how the right to peaceably assemble for redress of grievances gets penned into barbed wire “free speech zones”, or how you can be arrested for wearing a t-shirt that offends a partisan figure at a public event.
December 23rd, 2007 at 3:05 pmIn every case where the United States is succeeding in quelling the insurgency, and bringing peace to the Iraqis, the Iraqis have always welcomed the United States’ presence and requested us to stay.
And the polls that prove this exist only in your imagination.
Or are you talking about the bought-and-sold “leaders” we installed?
December 23rd, 2007 at 3:06 pmRemember bin Laden? The guy who actually attacked the United States?
Comment by RickS — December 23, 2007 @ 2:58 pm
Osama bin Lauden, otherwise known as Osama been Forgotten.
Yeah, Bush pushed to go after Bin Lauden:
“The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our number one priority and we will not rest until we find him.”
- G.W. Bush, 9/13/01
“I want justice…There’s an old poster out West, as I recall, that said, ‘Wanted: Dead or Alive,’”
- G.W. Bush, 9/17/01, UPI
Then less than 6months later he fliflopped:
“I don’t know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don’t care. It’s not that important. It’s not our priority.”
- G.W. Bush, 3/13/02
Typical of the Liar in Chief
December 23rd, 2007 at 3:06 pmHas anyone seen a link from BigMoron backing up ANYTHING he’s ever said?
Such is the faith of the biggest fools, “because someone in authority told me.”
Later all, I’m off to get soaked at Multnomah Falls — it’s better than the constant splash of BigMoron’s giant puddle of pee.
December 23rd, 2007 at 3:07 pmbigfoot could never find proof of any of his statements, because they’re all lies. he’s the prototypical tool, a traitor to the bone.
December 23rd, 2007 at 3:11 pmMitt Romney = The Joe Izuzu of 2008!
December 23rd, 2007 at 3:11 pmComment by O. Bigfoot — December 23, 2007 @ 2:28 pm
Leave it to Big0 to completely miss the point. Our invasion of Iraq has earned the distrust, if not enmity, of the World. It will take generations to undo the damage. If it can be undone.
As for terrorists slaughtering me? I can honestly say the thought has never entered my head. I would be concerned if traveling in certain parts of the world, but, only after Bushco’s response to 9/11.
When I did travel, to Europe and Morocco long before 9/11, I was universally greeted with open arms. Faces lit up as soon as those I met realized I was American and most of those I met had studied English just so they could interact with American travelers. Would this be true today? I think not. In fact, an old business acquaintance has moved back, from Morocco, to shield his family from the palpable hate of Americans. Countless others are following his example.
Americans will, probably, never regain the honor wasted by Bushco. That is an unmitigated disaster. And, all the more so, because it was unnecessary.
December 23rd, 2007 at 3:12 pmThus, Constitutional freedoms have expanded under the Bush Administration, and in no way have been curtailed.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 23, 2007 @ 3:13 pm
Liar.
December 23rd, 2007 at 3:15 pmTell that to the people he personally chose to die.
Several many times as many people have died in our war and the civil war we started (and egg on) than Saddam ever killed. The polls indicating the Iraqi preference to having lived under his oppression than ours shouldn’t be surprising in that context.
The reason Iraqis prefer him to us was one could know how to stay alive and thrive under a dictator – because there was order, and with order rules. The one thing in this world worse than dictatorial order is total chaos. And freedom and chaos are very different things.
December 23rd, 2007 at 3:17 pmIran non-dollar oil deals at 90%
December 23rd, 2007 at 3:19 pmThus, Constitutional freedoms have expanded under the Bush Administration, and in no way have been curtailed.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 23, 2007 @ 3:13 pm
The Constitutional freedom to buy those crucial high-capacity magazines for your weapons? That’s it? Because the jiggery-poker with taxes isn’t about “Constitutional freedom”, especially since it’s just pushing the debt onto your children — or your wife’s children, apparently.
As opposed to the “unitary executive”, to Cheney’s claims of being outside the Constitutional structure of government or the abuse of executive privilege, the suspension of habeas corpus . . . an ongoing list.
What is clear is that the only “Constitutional freedom” you give a damn about is your own personal pleasure.
December 23rd, 2007 at 3:26 pmThus, Constitutional freedoms have expanded under the Bush Administration, and in no way have been curtailed.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 23, 2007 @ 3:13 pm
Wow… just… wow… we should have known this sort of absolutely insane gibberish was coming. It’s like Li’l Footie has stuck his head so far up his own Cheney that he’s finally peekin’ out his own throat…
Nice Jingle Ballsâ„¢, BTW. Ho… ho… ho…
December 23rd, 2007 at 3:27 pmFor instance, I am now able to legally purchase a new, high-capacity magazing for my pistols and rifles.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 23, 2007 @ 3:13 pm
Well, that explains everything. Big0 hearts Bushco because he’s now better able to defend himself when the mob of “leftists” comes to string him up.
December 23rd, 2007 at 3:28 pmAmericans Keep Dying
Blast in Iraq Kills Soldier From Houston (TX)
Troup (TX) Soldier Killed in Iraq Was Only Child
Missouri Soldier Killed in Iraq Starred on Baseball Diamond
Paratrooper From Louisiana Killed in Afghanistan
Supporters to Line Funeral Procession for Fallen Montana Soldier
Maine Soldier Killed in Iraq Was Proud of Military Service
Decorated Columbus (GA) Soldier Dies in Afghanistan
December 23rd, 2007 at 3:30 pmIf one needs to know the truth about Iraq war progress, asking Lie berman, McCain and O’Hanlon is not the honest source to get the truth from.
December 23rd, 2007 at 3:30 pmThe three have been telling us about progress and victory for the last few years.
so, what makes it any different this time..?!!
ranked the best of all our presidents, lincoln expected to not be re-elected. not because he wasn’t doing a good job, but because war is difficult and unpopular.
Comment by CaptainMantastic — December 23, 2007 @ 3:28 pm
That would explain why FDR wasn’t re-elected, right? Oh, wait.
The issues with Lincoln were far more complicated than the fact that the election was held in the middle of the Civil War, even if there were any connection at all between that event and the occupation of Iraq. Could you possibly have come up with anything more completely irrelevant?
December 23rd, 2007 at 3:31 pmMaybe that’s really what it takes.
Comment by CaptainMantastic — December 23, 2007 @ 3:32 pm
Or maybe he’s just a terrible president.
December 23rd, 2007 at 3:32 pmranked the best of all our presidents, lincoln expected to not be re-elected. not because he wasn’t doing a good job, but because war is difficult and unpopular.
Comment by CaptainMantastic — December 23, 2007 @ 3:28 pm
He was unpopular because he suspended habeas corpus during the Civil War and that continued through Reconstruction, only for the Southern States, something some of his advisors advised him against.
December 23rd, 2007 at 3:33 pmThe rights of individuals U.S. citizens have been maintained, and even expanded, under the Bush Administration. Those are the facts. Ignore them if you wish, but that does not change the facts.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 23, 2007 @ 3:32 pm
That’s your typical response when asked to prove anything. “These are the facts. blah blah blah.” You’re utterly full of sh!t, Bigfoot. Bloviating is all you do.
December 23rd, 2007 at 3:35 pmUNITED NATIONS, Dec. 22 (Xinhua) — The UN General Assembly on Saturday approved a two-year UN budget of 4.17 billion U.S. dollars despite the only rejection from the United States.
The budget, proposed by UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon, was approved by a vote of 142 to one.
December 23rd, 2007 at 3:38 pmTHE CIA chief who ordered the destruction of secret videotapes recording the harsh interrogation of two top Al-Qaeda suspects has indicated he may seek immunity from prosecution in exchange for testifying before the House intelligence committee.
Jose Rodriguez, former head of the CIA’s clandestine service, is determined not to become the fall guy in the controversy over the CIA’s use of torture, according to intelligence sources.
It has emerged that at least four White House staff were approached for advice about the tapes, including David Addington, a senior aide to Dick Cheney, the vice-president, but none has admitted to recommending their destruction.
December 23rd, 2007 at 3:42 pmComment by Bush Cover Ups — December 23, 2007 @ 3:38 pm
We’re number one?
December 23rd, 2007 at 3:42 pmLooking forward to your virgins?
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 23, 2007 @ 3:35 pm
Ah yes, the “un-joke” retort… still desperately hoping to git hired fer the “half-hr comedy hr”? Ooopss…. toooo late!!! Already gone!
Yer gonna hate yerself after the holidays, when ya sober up ‘n see those pix of yerself in that outfit. The flashing red Rudolph nose is jes’ perfect w/ everything else.
You trolls need to form a union. Whoever insisted you fools all dress up like that has a twisted sense of humor. ‘N when the little clown car pulls up in front of TP ‘n ya’ll come tumblin’ at once, it’s priceless.
Ho… ho… ho…
December 23rd, 2007 at 3:43 pmWhy on earth does this little ass-wipe (the material we use to wipe shit from our ass) continue to write this nonsense?
December 23rd, 2007 at 3:44 pmComment by CaptainMantastic — December 23, 2007 @ 3:42 pm
Most people were for this war when it started.
****
Most people once thought the world was flat too…
****
It’s tempting to quit, but what do you gain in life by quitting when things are difficult?
****
Well, in your case, people might stop ridiculing you every time you stagger onto the threads here, half-bombed on pruno.
BTW, your comment is a really lame-*ssed rationalization. This is something that shouldn’t have been started in the first place. Brusch manipulated intelligence to justify a preemtory attack on a country that had nothing to do w/ 9/11.
Continuing forward when you’re wrong, doesn’t make you right, it just makes you wronger, and finally wrongest.
Time to sleep it off ‘n come back when yer sober.
December 23rd, 2007 at 3:50 pmI guess I’m just making the point that you could have said the same about Lincoln before the end of the civil war.
Comment by CaptainMantastic — December 23, 2007 @ 3:46 pm
Different wars, different circumstances. Irrational comment.
December 23rd, 2007 at 3:50 pmBut if you quit every time something is difficult, you would end up not standing for anything.
Most people were for this war when it started. The record is out there. It’s tempting to quit, but what do you gain in life by quitting when things are difficult?
Comment by CaptainMantastic — December 23, 2007 @ 3:42 pm
Most of us had been led to believe that Iraq was a credible threat. Of course, that has been shown to be untrue. Standing up for an idea which has been proven false is foolish. Admitting one’s mistakes, and striving to correct them, is wise.
December 23rd, 2007 at 3:53 pmYour “winning” strategy is called genocide. It’s an international war crime and a crime against humanity.
With comments such as yours, it is no wonder the rest of the world views the United States as the world’s largest Terrorist State.
December 23rd, 2007 at 4:00 pmWas it Genocide, did Americans kill thousands of Taliban that had Surrendered
3015 Taliban killed By US army in massacre, suffocated in trucks then shot
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=699_1198279617
December 23rd, 2007 at 4:02 pmAnd, can anybody explain how anyone would believe that our continued involvement, 4 1/2 years after “mission accomplished”, is a “comeback”?
December 23rd, 2007 at 4:02 pmThe rights of individuals U.S. citizens have been maintained, and even expanded, under the Bush Administration. Those are the facts. Ignore them if you wish, but that does not change the facts.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 23, 2007 @ 3:32 pm
Habeas Corpus is the main right to protect the individual from the government, and bush has taken that away. Thus, you have been proven a liar, and a traitor, and your little magazine won’t protect you when the time comes. it will just bring more justice down on you.
and Abraham Lincoln is entirely overrated. don’t forget, he was a Republican, thus, fatally flawed.
December 23rd, 2007 at 4:04 pmIf you accept GWB’s word that the intel used to justify the attack of Iraq was flawed then you must also agree that the war itself was flawed. Illegal is a better word. So now it’s up to the Reps to come up with a way to make a flawed, illegal war a victory. Bigfoot would tell you that you have two choices, win the war or return in defeat. That’s a crock of shite. Given that the war was flawed & illegal to begin with the only way to turn this clusterphuck around is to withdraw. You attacked on the basis of lies, you continue to attack only to try & save face. The ultimate face saving will come when you admit you were wrong & help rebuild the country. But don’t rebuild from the position of an occupying army.
When the U.S. withdraws the biggest fear of the Republicans is that the fighting will end. Therefore they can’t leave until they can come up with a tangible reason for the fighting to end. It can’t end simply because they leave or the entire war effort will be an obvious sham. It’s a sham already but the lies of the GWB administration hold it up in the eyes of their ignorant believers. Watch for the signs of fake success & then withdrawal. Bush can’t just leave as a criminal moron.
December 23rd, 2007 at 4:04 pmAnd, can anybody explain how anyone would believe that our continued involvement, 4 1/2 years after “mission accomplishedâ€, is a “comebackâ€?
Comment by pete — December 23, 2007 @ 4:02 pm
bogfoot can, he has plenty more shit up his ass to pull out and fling around instead of facts or truth.
December 23rd, 2007 at 4:05 pmWAR CRIMES BIG TIME
Was it Genocide, did Americans kill thousands of Taliban that had Surrendered
3015 Taliban killed By US army in massacre, suffocated in trucks then shot
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=699_1198279617
December 23rd, 2007 at 4:06 pmAnd, can anybody explain how anyone would believe that our continued involvement, 4 1/2 years after “mission accomplishedâ€, is a “comebackâ€?
Comment by pete — December 23, 2007 @ 4:02 pm
bogfoot can, he has plenty more shit up his ass to pull out and fling around instead of facts or truth.
Comment by Lefty Patriot — December 23, 2007 @ 4:05 pm
Oops! I should have said: “Can any rational person explain…”
December 23rd, 2007 at 4:09 pmMr. O. Bigfoot, in reference to your #36 post, while violence is down in a given area in Iraq(and thankfully so), this isn’t an indication of victory or long term success. It simply means that violence is down. How many of Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki’s political objectives been met? As the bar lowers, expectations weaken, rhetoric flows freely, and still no exist plan in sight, although a lowered casualty rate in a secluded area is welcomed, it ain’t no “mission accomplishedâ€.
Iraq is still one of the most violent civil conflicts in the world. Iraqi government statistics show that deaths attributed to political violence has averaged over 700 in the past 3 months.
Some of the tactics the U.S. has used to reduce violence can’t be sustained, or else haven’t worked as well in regions outside of Baghdad. Banning vehicles has reduced bombings, but blocking them can only be a short-term measure if Iraq’s economy is to survive. Note that when cars were allowed back to a pet market in Baghdad, a bombing occurred only a few days later. Meanwhile, the failure of Sunni, Shiite and Kurdish factions to reconcile seriously reduces the chance of a long term reduction in violence.
Paying Iraqi groups to turn against foreign terrorists has worked in the ethnically uniform Anbar province, which is mostly Sunni. But it has failed in the Diyala province, whose residents include Sunnis, Shiites and Kurds. These payments are also a result of the reduction in violence that CANNOT be construed as long term success. Even those Sunnis who have come over to the U.S. side remain deeply suspicious of the Shiites. Making reconciliation even more complicated, Sunnis themselves are splitting into factions.
Shiites in Parliament still angrily despise the Bush administration-backed measure to soften the ban on former Baath party members from working in government.
There’s still the questionable math that’s used in determining violence and death. This administration uses a creative formula in deciding that how a peson is killed(for example, being shot in the back of the head instead of the front may not be considered a violent death).
Mr. Bigfoot, there will always be naysayers and pessimist however, there are also realist that do not and will not fall victim to the rhetoric, nonsense, denial, and spin that this administration has delivered. Mr. McCain has backed this war from the beginning and needs this spin to promote his agenda. Mr. Lieberman has marched lockstep with the Bush regime from the start. He too needs to cheery pick this news.
In reality Mr. Bigfoot, it’s not fair to equate skepticism as being a hatred to America. The American People have trusted this administration time after time. Time after time, this administration has presented abject failures, misrepresented information, and out right lies. After last throes, mission accomplished, slam dunk, bring em on, fight em there not here(as if they had an army, navy or air force and were going to take a trans-Atlantic flight), no WMD, stay the course, heckuva job, Rumsfeld, Haliburtan, Abu Ghraib, Blackwater, waterboarding, body armor, Tora Bora, missing emails, destroyed tapes, Walter Reed, terrorist in our taxi cabs, mushroom clouds, Hunt Oil Company of Texas, extended tours, downing Street Memo, curveball, gas prices, a goddamn piece of paper, with us or against us, I’m the commander guy, I’m the decider, I’m the uniter, greeted as liberators, the U.S. does not torture, cakewalk, a few bad apples, a comma in history, Gonzales, Libby,,,,,et,al.,,, well, to paraphrase Senator Chris Dodd’s response to the White House this week; “We say to President Bush that a nation of truly free men and women would never take ‘trust me’ for an answer, not even from a perfect president — and certainly not from himâ€.
December 23rd, 2007 at 4:09 pmFunny, O. Bigfoot, when people were being escorted out of Bush rallies for merely wearing the wrong t-shirt, when people were being placed in free speech zones which admittedly Bush hadn’t invented, but skyrocketed their use, he was silent because at least his freedoms were not compromised. Unlike people like you, we want freedoms for everyone, not just the individual.
yes, as long as the NSA isn’t spying on you and it’s only anti-war demonstrators and liberals or whatever, it’s okay. That’s really American right there. As long as Bush convinces you that the NSA is only spying on terrorists (funny, there aren’t hundreds of thousands of terrorists in the United States), you go along your merry way because at least it isn’t happening to you. What was that poem by that German priest?
In Germany, they came first for the Communists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist;
And then they came for the trade unionists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist;
And then they came for the Jews, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew;
And then . . . they came for me . . . And by that time there was no one left to speak up.”
Yes, stay silent in the face of oppression. Stay silent when it is possible that your government has been spying on Americans for no reason. Stay silent…
The Fourth Amendment
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. (emphasis added)
United States Code Title 50, Chapter 36, Subchapter 1
Section 1809. Criminal sanctions
(a) Prohibited activities
A person is guilty of an offense if he intentionally-
(1) engages in electronic surveillance under color of law except as authorized by statute
You’re right on one thing about freedoms being expanded, mainly that of corporations to do anything in the name of profit.
December 23rd, 2007 at 4:11 pmIt could also mean that the ethnic cleansing has run its course…#136
December 23rd, 2007 at 4:12 pmKeep trying.
Comment by CaptainMantastic — December 23, 2007 @ 4:24 pm
At this point, there are all kindso f stories the MSM won’t touch, period.
Oh, LOOK! Britney fergot ta wear panties!
(Keep trying…)
December 23rd, 2007 at 4:44 pmAll this Iraq ‘good news’, may be welcome, but it’s irrelevant.
If I climb into my car hammered after a night in the bars, and actually make it all the way home without wrapping myself around a pole, or taking anyone else out, that’s good news.
It doesn’t mean a.) that getting behind the wheel in the first place was a wise move, never mind b.) an argument in favor of my doing it again next Friday, or c.) an adequate qualification for giving me a NASCAR ride.
December 23rd, 2007 at 5:14 pmO’Hanlon should be ashamed of himself for trying to rewrite history.
December 23rd, 2007 at 5:25 pmThe radical left has done their best to destroy civility in this nation, and all one has to do for confirmation is read liberal blogs. The constant childish name calling, and the constant snide innuendo and outright crudeness prove it.
If the left can’t be civil, then they can be somewhere else, away from me.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 23, 2007 @ 5:26 pm
You’d certainly never catch the Radical Right resorting to childish name calling . . . unless you were referring to Coulter, Hannity, Beck, Limbaugh et al. They’re so dignified and civil.
How can you write that sort of crap without acute embarrassment for your absurdity and hypocrisy? And if you’re so damn offended by the language at liberal blogs, why plague us with your presence?
December 23rd, 2007 at 5:59 pmAny American who wishes for the U.S. military to be forced to give up, and come home in disgrace, leaving Iraq in chaos, is without a doubt someone who hates their own nation, military, and fellow Americans.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 23, 2007 @ 6:05 pm
I for one have no desire for the US military to be in disgrace; I do not believe that an orderly retreat from a misguided occupation disgraces the military.
I don’t hate my nation, military or my fellow Americans and all the bloviating on your part to label the Left as such is simply an illustration of how fearful and blind you are.
If you had any sense at all, you’d recognize that it was the Bush administration that had endangered our military and our military personnel for years to come through a pointless and badly-run military adventure in Iraq, while the half-hearted effort in Afghanistan — and the US military operating there — is left to suffer.
True American patriots are invested in protecting the Constitution from those like you and the Bushies, who would tear it apart for their own selfish desires.
December 23rd, 2007 at 6:18 pmI hate to burst your bubble, Big0, but comparing our occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan, to WW2, is asinine. The military of Iraq and Afghanistan had not attacked us and never had the capacity to do so. Even if you cling to the idea that we had the “right” to invade Afghanistan; Iraq is an entirely different story. It’s a “war of aggression”. No more. No less.
BTW, Germany and Japan, between them, had occupied, or threatened, about half the globe. Most of Europe, and China, were begging us to intervene long before Pearl Harbor. And, if Japan had not foolishly attacked Pearl harbor, we may have never gotten involved.
The leaders of that age knew that even the appearance of aggressive war is EVIL and is ultimately punished. Which is why Japan and Germany were razed. Even then, our leaders knew better than to try occupation with a token force. (And compared to WW2 our troops in the ME are a token force.) And, they certainly weren’t stupid enough to arm hostile factions within those countries.
December 23rd, 2007 at 6:20 pmComment by O. Bigfoot — December 23, 2007 @ 6:05 pm
Your arrogance , ignorance and stupidity are repugnant and galling.
You prattle on and on brainlessly about how the “far left” only wishes for the US to lose in Iraq and/or celebrates when one of our soldiers returns in a flag-draped coffin ; beyond the patently obvious that you would never even insinuate such things in front of someone like myself (because you wouldn’t be around long enough to regret it) , what is it you believe there is to “win” in Iraq , you colossal moron ?
And in addition ; you sheepishly try to fob off why we’re in Iraq to begin with with a “well we’re there now”.
Our soldiers are DYING NEEDLESSLY IN AN ILLEGAL AND TOTALLY UNNECESSARY INVASION AND OCCUPATION ; what part of that do you not understand , jerkoff ?
You ridiculously try to rationalize a war started based upon lies , and then have the nerve to lie about others and how they feel or view our own military ; what a small-minded , empty and vacuous and useless individual you are.
A drop of bug urine possesses more depth than you ever will , and your political partisanship is sickening and makes you appear to be insane ; at the very least , your IQ wouldn’t even make a good bowling average for a child……
December 23rd, 2007 at 6:25 pmAny American who wishes for the U.S. military to be forced to give up, and come home in disgrace, leaving Iraq in chaos, is without a doubt someone who hates their own nation, military, and fellow Americans.
Wow. Bigfoot thinks war is a football game, where it’s about vicarious hometown pride.
December 23rd, 2007 at 6:28 pmAnd I have absolutely no problem with skepticism. However, the far-left goes far beyone skeptisicm into the land of outright hatred.
Want proof? When directly challenged, not one “progressive†on this blog, not one, comes out in favor of a U.S. victory in Iraq. Not one.
Comment by O. Bigfoot
I’m a progressive and I am in favor of a U.S. victory in Iraq.
So much for your proof…
That is of course if by “victory” you mean a stable country, that we can leave –dis-assembling ALL our bases and bringing home ALL our troops. Then yes. Anything that allows us to put an end to what will probably be viewed by historians as the greatest military blunder of this century. And if “victory” means we can put an end to the needless bloodshed that is the product of this optional war that we started illegally, against the will of the rest of the civilized world, then yes I’m for “victory”.
The reason you won’t here this said by most progressives is because most of us don’t believe there can be anything truly called “victory” in an illegal, and immoral military action. But as far as I’m concerned: you can call it what ever you want, as long as we’re getting out. And as long as we haven’t made a complete mess of the place that will haunt us for the next few decades.
December 23rd, 2007 at 6:29 pmI can read, type, and listen to a George Bush press conference, the Sean Hannity show, or Limbaugh all at the same time.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 23, 2007 @ 6:22 pm
Nice to know you can take in butchered English , political partisanship gushing nonsense , and drug addled mumble all at once.
You’re truly talented…..BTW
You’re already stupid enough without having the rest of your remaining 3 active brain cells turn into runny cream cheese by constantly listening to She-Yawn Insanity and Fat Bastard Limpballs ; get a hobby………
December 23rd, 2007 at 6:31 pmWant proof? When directly challenged, not one “progressive†on this blog, not one, comes out in favor of a U.S. victory in Iraq. Not one.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 23, 2007 @ 6:05 pm
In addition to being a bald-faced lie, you are operating under the false premise that there is any way for us to “win” in Iraq. World opinion has judged us guilty. All that remains is to try to negotiate a reduced sentence. Those negotiations can’t even begin until U.S. forces cease offensive operations.
Your “victory” was achieved long ago, and it’s been pissed away.
December 23rd, 2007 at 6:32 pm“General BETRAYUS is a DISGRACED military “manâ€, now just an azslicker SYCOPHANT of MURDERER BusHitler the COXUCKER punk
TRAITOR to the USA.
Sincerely,
NRA Gun Nutes
Comment by Arn Gunnutes — December 23, 2007 @ 6:17 pmâ€
Does this pass for civility on the far-left?
I rest my case.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 23, 2007 @ 6:27 pm
Hey , headupurownass
Wasn’t your porcine piece of shit hero Limpballs the moron who claimed that the soldiers who support American withdrawal from Iraq are “phony soldiers†?
December 23rd, 2007 at 6:38 pmBecause that tub of crap is a former Rambo , right ?
That stupid lard pansy used a boil on his enormous ass to get out of military duty , and he’s spewing stupid nonsense about those he could never hope to even come close to emulating ?
And if you anyone on the left starts spewing their anti-American, anti-military, anti-victory blather in front of me, you can be certain that person is challenged to either put up or shut up.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 23, 2007 @ 6:35 pm
At least Frank M has the courage to admit to being a fascist. Here you are, espousing a thoroughly fascist pseudo-patriotism and claiming to support democracy. Anyone who criticizes the Iraqi occupation or the motivations behind it is, in your twisted little view, anti-American and anti-military.
So much for your admiration of the Constitution and free speech.
I take great pride in the knowledge that you and your fellow wingnuts are a small minority, getting smaller every year.
December 23rd, 2007 at 6:41 pmComment by pete — December 23, 2007 @ 6:32 pmâ€
And thank you for providing even further proof of my assertions.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 23, 2007 @ 6:38 pm
And how, pray tell, did I do that?
December 23rd, 2007 at 6:42 pm“In addition to being a bald-faced lie, you are operating under the false premise that there is any way for us to “win†in Iraq. World opinion has judged us guilty. All that remains is to try to negotiate a reduced sentence. Those negotiations can’t even begin until U.S. forces cease offensive operations.
Your “victory†was achieved long ago, and it’s been pissed away.
Comment by pete — December 23, 2007 @ 6:32 pmâ€
And thank you for providing even further proof of my assertions.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 23, 2007 @ 6:38 pm
You being proved to be a Chimpy leg humping moron is what you have been asserting ?
I concur……
December 23rd, 2007 at 6:44 pm(You repeated the same moronic non-response response to “pete’s” post that you used on mine ; you sound like a mental patient that’s been using speed)
And thank you for providing even further proof of my assertions.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 23, 2007 @ 6:38 pm
And how, pray tell, did I do that?
Comment by pete — December 23, 2007 @ 6:42 pm
Seriously, demonstrate how I “proved your assertions” or forever be known as a lying fool.
December 23rd, 2007 at 6:47 pmBut liberals suffer from pack mentality, so I understand your reluctance to be independent in even the smallest way.
Just be assured that independence is liberating, I can attest to that. You should try it sometime.
Comment by O. Bigfoot
This is an incredible piece irony.
There is nothing that you have ever posted on this blog site that I’ve read that wasn’t a well worn right-wing talking point. NOTHING.
December 23rd, 2007 at 6:48 pmO’Hanlon is another warmongering, chickenshit, chickenhawk who has never worn a uniform or marched in formation, much less been in battle. These people are worthless, unpatriotic, bottomfeeding, asshats.
December 23rd, 2007 at 6:52 pm“Wasn’t your porcine piece of shit hero Limpballs the moron who claimed that the soldiers who support American withdrawal from Iraq are “phony soldiers†?
Because that tub of crap is a former Rambo , right ?
That stupid lard pansy used a boil on his enormous ass to get out of military duty , and he’s spewing stupid nonsense about those he could never hope to even come close to emulating ?
Comment by MCMetal — December 23, 2007 @ 6:38 pmâ€
Perhaps rather than parroting the ignorant poppycock of the far left, you should actually do some of your own research and your own thinking. But liberals suffer from pack mentality, so I understand your reluctance to be independent in even the smallest way.
Just be assured that independence is liberating, I can attest to that. You should try it sometime.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 23, 2007 @ 6:45 pm
You mean this type of “liberating” behavior , you sorry ignoramus ?
———————————————————————
Indeed, I’ve listened to Hannity and Limbaugh for years,
———————————————————————
I can read, type, and listen to a George Bush press conference, the Sean Hannity show, or Limbaugh all at the same time.
=======================
And clown ; are you going to laughably claim that you 20%’ers , the Chimpy Adoration Brigade , are all part of some group that nurtures and promotes independent thinking and belief(s) ?
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
December 23rd, 2007 at 6:53 pmThe “with us or against us” president and his imbecilic backers ; the most idiotic and hypocritical group ever to be crapped out……You’re a sorry Chimpy nut hugging tool.
GWB and his crime family are the worst thing to ever happen to this country, bar none. The crime family of thugs should all be tried for war crimes and treason.
December 23rd, 2007 at 6:56 pmGood lord, There is no war in Iraq. That war ended in 2003. Mission Accomplished. What we have had since then is an occupation where some of those being occupied are resisting.
Since we began the occupation, 1 million Iraqis have died, 2 million left the country, another 2 million became internal refugees and with many others have moved out of mixed neighbourhoods (ethnic cleansing). The US alone has 30,000 prisoners in detention (not including the Iraqi governments prisoners).
Walls separate neighbourhoods in Baghdad, same as in the West bank. In Fallujha, they have walled off the city into 10 sections, biometric ID’s are required to pass from one section to the other, cars are banned, making travel difficult.
There certainly are fewer civilian deaths, as there are fewer civilians and less mixed areas, yet 500 deaths per month in a population of 25 million, are equivelant of 6000 people killed per month in the US due to terrorism (say 2 – 9/11’s per month).
December 23rd, 2007 at 6:58 pm“Comment by pete — December 23, 2007 @ 6:32 pmâ€
And thank you for providing even further proof of my assertions.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 23, 2007 @ 6:38 pm
And how, pray tell, did I do that?
Comment by pete — December 23, 2007 @ 6:42 pmâ€
By refusing to support the idea of U.S. victory, and a stable Iraq. But don’t feel bad, not many on the far left do so, so you are in “good†company.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 23, 2007 @ 6:49 pm
Considering I already asked you what a “US victory in Iraq” actually consists of , isn’t it kind of difficult for anyone to support an idea without a dfinitive form ?
BTW
You’re in “bad company” , ya’ big dope ; you are part of the group that makes up the most simple-minded Americans to ever occupy this country.
December 23rd, 2007 at 7:00 pmYou still blindly and stupidly support the worst president and administration in US history ; and if that isn’t bad enough , you accuse others of treasonous/traitorous behavior , when your own retarded simian hero and those in his inner group revealed an undercover CIA officer’s identity for purely political partisanship/purposes….
Real nice.
Then you are either lying about reading my stuff, or you refuse to have an open mind and wish to blindly support the talking points of the far left.
I’ve been reading your posts for months. You may not realize it but you are exactly the right-wing version of what you are accusing us of.
Answer this: Name one good thing George W. Bush has done as President.
Comment by O. Bigfoot
Invaded Afghanistan, removed the Taliban, and destroyed most of the AQ bases there. It’s just too bad he didn’t finish the job and went running off to invade Iraq for no good reason. That’s when he lost my support.
The truth of the matter is that the good things Bush has done are very far and few between. That’s why he has an approval rating hovering around the level of the record low that Richard Nixon set.
December 23rd, 2007 at 7:01 pmBy refusing to support the idea of U.S. victory, and a stable Iraq. But don’t feel bad, not many on the far left do so, so you are in “good†company.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 23, 2007 @ 6:49 pm
Failed on all counts.
My greatest hope is a stable Iraq. That may be impossible to achieve and I don’t think it can happen while U.S. forces continue an offensive policy.
“Victory”, as I stated, has already been achieved. Yay for our team! Unfortunately, our “glorious leaders” squandered that victory through faulty strategy which resulted in an untenable position. They didn’t “get while the getting was good”.
And finally, If you think I’m “far left”? You haven’t understood my words.
So, a lying fool you are and will remain.
December 23rd, 2007 at 7:01 pmNY Times Op-Ed “Iraq: the ‘greatest American military comeback’ since 1864?”
In another report dated Thursday, 8 November 2007, the BBC said,
Regardless, of which figure you believe, 50,000, 81,000, 650,000 or 1.2 million, we must ask ourselves, as members of the human species, “what have all these people died for?â€
The same Nov. 8th BBC report says,
According to an October 11, 2007 BBC report,
So what about the children of Iraq? According to a recent UNICEF report, we find the following:
* Only 28 per cent of Iraq’s 17 year olds sat their final exams in summer, and only 40 per cent of those sitting exams achieved a passing grade (in south and central Iraq).
* Many of 220,000 displaced children of primary school age had their education interrupted, adding to the estimated 760,000 children (17 per cent) already out of primary school in 2006.
* Children in remote and hard-to-reach areas were frequently cut off from health outreach services.
* Only 20 per cent outside Baghdad had working sewerage in their community, and access to safe water remains a serious issue.
* An average 25,000 children per month were displaced by violence or intimidation, their families seeking shelter in other parts of Iraq.
* By the end of the year, approximately 75,000 children had resorted to living in camps or temporary shelters (25 per cent of those newly-displaced since the Samarra shrine bombing in February 2006).
* Hundreds of children lost their lives or were injured by violence and many more had their main family wage-earner kidnapped or killed.
* Approximately 1,350 children were detained by military and police authorities, many for alleged security violations.
A 21 December 2007 BBC report said, “Iraqi children are paying far too high a price,†said Roger Wright, UNICEF’s special representative for Iraq. … Wright stressed that Iraqi children should be the priority for international investment in Iraq as they would be the “foundation for their country’s recoveryâ€.
At the end of the day, Iraqi women and children are paying a high price for “democracyâ€.
The second question is nothing more than a surreptitious slap in the face of the men and women of the Greatest Generation, the generation of my parents.
It can be arguably said that there are many more “greatest American military comeback late in a war†than Sherman’s march to the sea and burning of Atlanta.
How about during the Battle of the Bulge, when it appeared that the 101st Airborne would be overrun by attacking German forces at Bastogne, and General Patton’s Third Army, had to stop a full scale attack they had started to the east, pull back the entire army, swing around ninety degrees to the north, and then begin another full scale attack on the southern flank of the German forces. Nothing like that had ever been done in the history of warfare. Had the Third Army failed, the Allies would have been split in two and possibly either lost the European Campaign, or see it prolonged into 1946 or beyond. I believe that qualifies as just one of the “greatest American military comeback late in a warâ€. Or how about the The Battle of El Alamein, or the The Battle of Stalingrad, or the The Battle of Coral Sea, or The Battle of Midway.
I hardly think that what is happening in Iraq today even closely qualifies as “greatest American military comeback late in a warâ€, and respectfully request those making such a preposterous claim, go back and study history, at least as far back as 1941.
December 23rd, 2007 at 7:03 pm“And clown ; are you going to laughably claim that you 20%’ers , the Chimpy Adoration Brigade , are all part of some group that nurtures and promotes independent thinking and belief(s) ?
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
The “with us or against us†president and his imbecilic backers ; the most idiotic and hypocritical group ever to be crapped out……You’re a sorry Chimpy nut hugging tool.
Comment by MCMetal — December 23, 2007 @ 6:53 pmâ€
You are wrong, of course. But you have the right, in the United States, to be wrong.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 23, 2007 @ 7:00 pm
Based upon what ; the claim of a moronic Chimpy backer ?
How valid or viable do you believe your opinion is ?
It isn’t even worth a cup of spit.
You and your ilk have been 0-for-7-years , and you’re trying to claim someone else is “wrong” without offering any evidence or a decent rebuttal ?
You have less working brain wave activity than a potted plant.
December 23rd, 2007 at 7:03 pm“We only have two choices: Win, or come home in defeat.”
Actually no, we really have no choice. And, I don’t say that as some whacky leftist: I say that as a former member of the US Army, the Hawaii Army National Guard and the US Army Reserve, branch qualified as a Military Police officer and Tactical Intelligence officer with assignments in Civil Affairs, Field Artillery and Military Police units.
This misadventure constituted a lost cause as it was launched. It was further doomed by the well intentioned but indefensible and moronic decisions of Paul Bremmer to disband the Iraqi military, effective bar participation of Baathists in the ‘reconciliation and unity’ government of Iraq, throwing literally millions of angry, disaffected and desperate military-age men out of work.
This has been a stumbling series of strategic and tactical blunders, fought primarily on the defensive since shortly after Baghdad fell. This entire engagement will the shredded over time at the War College, and repackaged as the foolhardy and doomed mission it was.
Predominantly one man sits literally with his finger on the trigger in Iraq. Muqtada al-Sadr is not a military man. While he is a charismatic figure and revered by his follows, he is neither brilliant nor a skilled tactician. But, he is the one individual who primarily sits between the present situation in Iraq, and chaos. He is vehemently nationalistic, narrowly Shia and therefore anti-Sunni in simplistic terms, but even more strongly anti-American and anti-occupation. His militia is no match for trained and well-equipped US forces, yet he ultimately will prevail over our forces by sure religious and political will, and the selective application of violence which we are largely unable to control.
When it suits his purpose, Muqtada al-Sadr will unleash his combined forces against ours—and will by any reasonable measure—achieve his objectives, quite possibly taking the lives of thousands of US soldiers and marines in the process. And, US forces will do what the Marines did in Lebanon under President Reagan: conduct the most orderly and hasty withdrawal possible.
All of us, including you, will be left to wonder just what it was that we accomplished in Iraq.
The sooner we collectively quit pretending that General Petraeus is General Patton and get the hell out of the way, the less likely Muqtada al-Sadr will be pushing us out, and the fewer lives we will lose defending a policy which is indefensible and occupying a nation we cannot continue to hold.
Those like you who apparently have not worn a uniform and fought for this country don’t seem to realize that the observations I have outlined are shared by more active duty, reserve, retired and former officers than not.
So, good luck with that ‘win in Iraq’ idea: we will ultimately becoming home in defeat. I can only hope it is sooner than later, and before any more lives are needlessly sacrificed.
December 23rd, 2007 at 7:15 pmUh, Mr. Bigfoot, if you choose to respond(149) to my post(136) and to include my name, please respond to the content of my post and not go into a rant over one sentence that you take out of context. Your comments reveal your abandonment of reason and reasoned debate in favor of diatribe and arrogance. Anyone who disagrees with you must be a traitor or disloyal or defeatist. You failed to contradict a single point of mine. As usual, defenders of the empire ignore the arguments of those on the other side and instead choose to create their own argument out of thin air. Then, after supposedly “winning†their fabricated argument, they feel they can dismiss the opponent with contempt. It’s boring and counterproductive. The objectives of you posting here has become disturbingly obvious.
December 23rd, 2007 at 7:21 pm0fer Xsakes. What a line of crap.
After the sectarian cleansing of Baghdad and the payoff of the Sunni shieks, of course violence is going to subside, that’s not a military victory. And there’s no, none, nada, zero political progress.
Mission Won’t ever be accomplished, occupations are like that, yeah they are!
December 23rd, 2007 at 7:29 pmOh, yeah, and O’Handjob, where can I get some of the shit you’ve been smokin?
December 23rd, 2007 at 7:33 pmGawd, talk about delusional. Does anyone really give this asshat any credit?
December 23rd, 2007 at 7:35 pmHowever, I must vehemently disagree with your assesments of the situation in Iraq. Not only is it winnable, but we are currently on the right track to victory.
So tell me OBigFootInMouth. How do you “win” an occupation of another country? You think you are so smart. You ought to be able to answer that question.
December 23rd, 2007 at 7:37 pmComment by andy42302 — December 23, 2007 @ 7:21 pm
Big0 is also fond of generalization. Note his claims of, “all of you”, “the far left” (NOTE: the “far-left” is, apparently, anyone who doesn’t denigrate those who are denigrated by his favorite radio hosts.) and my favorite, “not one of you”. Yet, when faced with evidence of his misstatements, he moves on to a new target. Never to return.
BTW, he might be particularly fussy because Santa-George didn’t give him the “nukular” war, he dreams of, for Christmas.
December 23rd, 2007 at 7:39 pmSir, most Americans, like me, thank you for your courage and sacrifice. Moreover, we appreciate your candid assessment and observations. It is only a shame the media not only supports the lies and misconceptions of those in power, but turn a deaf ear to honorable men and women like yourself.
I fear we are looking at more than defeat in Iraq, because at the end of the day, we need an open honest dialogue in this country. We need to allow for divergent opinions and we need to respect a person’s right to that opinion. We need to put an end to assigning blame, and polarizing rhetoric.
We either come together as a people, or we face a certain future devoid of civility and our common humanity. We either lead the planet to genuine freedom or we denigrate into the abyss of an unstoppable nightmare; which will rob future generations of the grand dream of our Founding Fathers.
We are now at a crossroad in our history; regardless whether we recognize it or not, we must ask, where do we go from here, the choice is ours.
All the best of the holiday season to you and your loved ones, may you enjoy good health and abundant great fortune in 2008.
Again, thank you so much.
December 23rd, 2007 at 7:40 pmIf Al-Sadr is as potent as you say, then all it will take is one well placed sniper round to change that, and there is no doubt in my mind that our military is capable of that when the time and opportunity to strike is right.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 23, 2007 @ 7:34 pm
Just like Saddam and Bin Laden?
Seriously, you should take a nap. Your wits are sleeping.
December 23rd, 2007 at 7:43 pmIndeed, I have not spoken to one member of our military who has served in Iraq who has stated that the war is lost, and our being there is useless. And while I will state not every military person I have spoken with has expressed interest in returning to Iraq, many have, and all have believed in the mission and the Iraqi people.
Comment by O. Bigfoot
Well, since you probably only know one person who has been in Iraq, that’s not saying much. You really do need to broaden your horizons. Here’s a little education for you:
The current Times/Bloomberg poll also found that nearly 70 percent of military households with a veteran of the wars in Iraq or Afghanistan said that troops in Iraq should either come home right away or within the next year.
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/nation/stories/122307dnpolmilvote.291a971.html
If their families think that way, you can bet the farm that the soldiers feel that way too.
December 23rd, 2007 at 7:45 pmAm I arrogant? Guilty as charged.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 23, 2007 @ 7:42 pm
Arrogance based on knowledge is wisdom. Arrogance based on ignorance is folly.
December 23rd, 2007 at 7:45 pmDid our brave neocon “cut and run”? Why am I not surprised in the least?
December 23rd, 2007 at 7:48 pmWhy do we keep engaging BigFootInMouth. He never answers questions (just like Francine M) and he never backs up his blathering with any kind of proof. He somehow thinks that we care what he thinks about anything.
Let’s just stop giving him what he wants and simply flag him and ignore his posts. They aren’t worth reading anyway. They give me a headache.
December 23rd, 2007 at 7:49 pmDid our brave neocon “cut and run� Why am I not surprised in the least?
Comment by pete
Of course he did. That’s what they do when people start asking them questions they can’t answer. They all of a sudden have something very important to do and leave.
December 23rd, 2007 at 7:50 pmYes Mr. Bigfoot, you may indeed choose to answer in any fashion you like, regardless of it’s rationale. I too understand my options in responding. My point was, and you’ve backed me 100%, that you do it so poorly. Merry Christmas to you as well. Andy
December 23rd, 2007 at 7:54 pm“If anything you state about your service to our country is true, then I thank you for it.”
Nice way to say, “I don’t believe you, but if it is true…”
If you really want to thank me and the hundreds of thousands of other veterans, stop deluding yourself. Challenge your presumptions and reach beyond the simplistic information which supports your pre-existing point of view.
Occupations are simply not won or lost – they are ended.
Sadly, your assertion that the efforts of a lone sniper will change the situation are simply ludicrous: such an action will only exacerbate the many problems we face in Iraq. A trained Infantry office with absolutely no combat experience knows what a ridiculous proposition this is.
Why can’t those of you with NO experience listen to those who have ‘been there and done that’ challenge your pre-existing conclusions?
Sadly, there seems little point in engaging you in conversation, as nothing I nor anyone else contributes to a discussions—that does not square with your belief system—is evidently considered seriously. Instead of carrying the water for those who brought us this failed adventure, how about widening your horizons a little. There is an abundance of source material on the web which belies your point of view. You would be well advised to read it, and seriously look for additional information which amplifies or modifies it, rather than presumptively attacking it as ‘wrong.’
I do not doubt that you have not “spoken to one member of our military who has served in Iraq who has stated that the war is lost, and our being there is useless.” You wouldn’t be engaging with those who did so.
I believe that in the future, senior instructors at the War College and the Academy at West Point will argue how futile our efforts were, your point of view will be neutered and mine validated. I suppose history will be the judge of all this…
But, as your President has so eloquently stated: “‘History, we don’t know. We’ll all be dead.”
December 23rd, 2007 at 7:57 pmComment by bilbobaggins — December 23, 2007 @ 7:49 pm
I don’t usually engage him past a “bulls!t” or two. However, I couldn’t generate any interest in today’s football games, so, I figured a little “troll baiting” would fill the void. Plus it’s rewarding to allow them further opportunities for self-incrimination. Who knows, maybe one day “troll scat” will be used to demonstrate the depth of the sewer, that the GOP has become, and the sheer pigheadedness of the 24%ers. They should provide a valuable warning to future generations.
December 23rd, 2007 at 8:00 pmPlease explain this: A poll by Zogby International and RELEASED on February 28, 2006 showed:
* just one in five troops want to heed Bush call to stay “as long as they are neededâ€
* 72% of American troops serving in Iraq think the U.S. should exit the country within the next year, and more than one in four say the troops should leave immediately
* 89% of reserves and 82% of those in the National Guard said the U.S. should leave Iraq within a year
* 58% of Marines think we should leave within a year
A Military Times poll released at the end of 2006 showed that “Only 35 percent of the military members polled this year said they approve of the way President Bush is handling the war, while 42 percent said they disapproved. “
We just love it when faced with overwhelming evidence to the contrary, some here continue to stay in the river and don’t even ask for a pair of oars.
December 23rd, 2007 at 8:01 pmAm I arrogant? Guilty as charged.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 23, 2007 @ 7:42 pm
December 23rd, 2007 at 8:27 pmWhy are the least intelligent/gifted such as yourself , always wholly delusional in the way they view themselves ?
Not exactly a helpful or accurate comparison. Sherman’s march was a scorched earth campaign, while the objective of the “surge” is pretty much the opposite.
December 23rd, 2007 at 9:18 pmNot exactly a helpful or accurate comparison.
Comment by ChenZhen — December 23, 2007 @ 9:18 pm
Right… that was my first thought too…
Actually, it was something like, “Huh? WTF is this idiot talking about?”
December 23rd, 2007 at 9:42 pmI really have problems in finding Sherman’s march to the sea as a military comeback. Any student of military history would know that Atlanta had already fallen, the union army had already made major moves toward the investment of Richmond. The fact is that Sherman was able to make his march because the confederacy was already on the ropes.
December 23rd, 2007 at 10:13 pmThe radical left has done their best to destroy civility in this nation, and all one has to do for confirmation is read liberal blogs. The constant childish name calling, and the constant snide innuendo and outright crudeness prove it.
If the left can’t be civil, then they can be somewhere else, away from me.
Yes, coming from a side that proclaims that Liberals want the terrorists to win, the side that proclaims that we are traitors, etc.
I think you’re projecting. Your side is the one that tries to stifle dissent by using the patriotism card and if I’m not mistaken, you’d probably use it too if you haven’t already.
December 24th, 2007 at 1:06 amSo say the guys who claim to stand up for American values, yet stand up for torture, whose concept of civil rights begins and ends at the right to bear arms if you happen to be mentally unstable and likely to go around shooting up schools, and who have such luminaries as, well, just watch the video.
Yeah, the left is really, really uncivil now isn’t it?
December 24th, 2007 at 4:00 amActually, this is not a war, that was over in 2003, this has been an occupation. I think it is going along about the same as our occupation in the Philippines went at the end of the 19th century, fierce resistance, then we butcher 200 K of them, and they calmed down, too tuckered out.
As for 1864. Good thing the Russian navy came in and bailed us out. The British and French had been arming and supplying the South until the Russians came and scared them off. We had to buy Alaska to pay our debt to them. They thought they were dumping it off on us. Sewells folly they called it. Worked out well.
December 24th, 2007 at 4:24 amThis is pure bullshit. The surge was going so dismally that it was abandoned in August 2007 and replaced by a plan that has the look and feel of the Biden plan. Bush gave up on the Maliki government and had the General’s make deals with local tribal leaders and turning security over to local groups that are often highly at odds with Maliki. Right now the plan is to kick the can down the road then drop it in the lap of the new administration. This will be a critical period because I expect bin Laden to step up operations against American targets to test the new administration in transition.
December 24th, 2007 at 7:53 pm