The Pope’s Christmas Day message.
The Pope’s Christmas Day message.
Pope Benedict XVI, speaking from St. Peter’s Basilica this morning:
“On this day of peace, my thoughts turn especially to those places where the grim sound of arms continues to reverberate,” he said, emphasising “the whole of the Middle East — especially Iraq, Lebanon and the Holy Land.” [...]
[He] prayed that political leaders would find “the wisdom and courage to seek and find humane, just and lasting solutions.”
The pontiff spoke of “those who live in the darkness of poverty, injustice and war … those who are still denied their legitimate aspirations for a more secure existence, for health, education, stable employment.
“It is the most vulnerable members of society — women, children, the elderly — who are so often the victims of brutal armed conflicts, terrorism and violence of every kind, which inflict such terrible sufferings on entire populations,” he said.
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Why does the Pope hate America so?
December 25th, 2007 at 11:35 amhappy festivus to us all!
December 25th, 2007 at 11:52 amAnd why should I care what an ex "Hitler Youth" and nazi prison guard has to say? Because he speaks for the Organized Religion that murdered millions in the bloody Inquisition and was the major cause of the Dark Agein Europe?
December 25th, 2007 at 11:53 amComment by Wayne — December 25, 2007 @ 11:53 am
remember the first principle of festivus:
no hard feelings.
December 25th, 2007 at 11:56 amHappy Hours..umm Happy Horus Day!
Heh.
Merry Xmas Y'all
December 25th, 2007 at 12:07 pmNow I am not defending the Catholic Church in any way but I believe it was the fall of the Roman Empire that was the major cause of the Dark Ages.
December 25th, 2007 at 12:07 pmHey P Benny 16,
If it weren't for you and your kind, there wouldn't be quite so many women and children in poverty.
Other than that, have a nice day in your pretty red shoes.
December 25th, 2007 at 12:22 pmComment by Zooey — December 25, 2007 @ 12:22 pm
Just like a woman to be focused on the shoes. It is clearly the hat that makes the man. Is there at least a roasting pan in that kitchen you are working in? I suppose it is very hard to have your mise en place when it isn't your "place"
December 25th, 2007 at 12:26 pmdbadass,
Wait just a minute while I pull on my "ass kicking boots..." :-D
December 25th, 2007 at 12:29 pmGood thing I am on my way out the door lest I end up on the receiving end of them there boots.
best-
December 25th, 2007 at 12:32 pmNow I am not defending the Catholic Church in any way but I believe it was the fall of the Roman Empire that was the major cause of the Dark Ages.
Comment by cma12 — December 25, 2007 @ 12:07 pm
The iron hand of the Roman Catholic church was the cause and also perpetuated the dark ages, at least from all the many books I read while spending nights at the university libraies while in college.
Delve a bit further into history =)
December 25th, 2007 at 12:48 pmThe message of the Pope is appropriate, but historically, the suffering inflicted on the people by the Catholic Church should never be forgotten.
December 25th, 2007 at 12:56 pmSarkozys in Egypt till dec31st
December 25th, 2007 at 12:59 pmComment by cma12 — December 25, 2007 @ 12:07 pm
Also the the people called th "Fathers of the Dark Ages" were Ambrose City boss of Milan and Imperial Bishop, John Chrysostom
Holy Hierarch of Constantinople, Augustine Theorist of Hippo ('Father of the Inquisition'), last but not least, Pope Gregory 'God's Consul' in Rome.
Please read a bit more to arm yourself before debating religion with me =)
December 25th, 2007 at 1:13 pmThe crimes of the Catholic Church of course have nothing to do with the Jesus, his teachings or his ministry, they have to do with the corruption of men when they try to mix religion with government.
Comment by BARTLEBEE — December 25, 2007 @ 1:11 pm
Bingo!
December 25th, 2007 at 1:18 pmMy wish this Time of Year…
… is a heartfelt prayer; for you and your loved ones, to be blessed with good health and abundant great fortune through out 2008.
December 25th, 2007 at 1:19 pm"Of all the tyrannies that afflict mankind, tyranny in religion is the worst.
December 25th, 2007 at 1:44 pmEvery other species of tyranny is limited to the world we live in, but this attempts a stride beyond the grave and seeks to pursue us into eternity."
- Thomas Paine
Comment by Wayne — December 25, 2007 @ 1:44 pm
amen.
December 25th, 2007 at 1:59 pmThat guy in the vatican is an opportunist, just like obama.Empty words, empty phrases.I think he rips off other ideologists' speeches and messages.
December 25th, 2007 at 2:44 pmComment by Mimo — December 25, 2007 @ 2:44 pm
Right, because "the guy in the Vatican" is also running for office in the US and needs to say all the right things to stay in the race lest he alienates his constituency.
Those darn left-wing ideologists...
/sarcasm off
December 25th, 2007 at 2:51 pmOnce again, the pope projects.
December 25th, 2007 at 2:58 pmNow I am not defending the Catholic Church in any way but I believe it was the fall of the Roman Empire that was the major cause of the Dark Ages.
Comment by cma12 — December 25, 2007 @ 12:07 pm
Did you mean the Roman Republic or the Roman Empire?
And, IMHO, IGNORANCE + RELIGION caused the Dark Ages
December 25th, 2007 at 4:14 pmComment by Mimo — December 25, 2007 @ 2:44 pm
"obama and the pope"
they're detectives!
December 25th, 2007 at 4:16 pmComment by dixie blood — December 25, 2007 @ 4:14 pm
Don't forget xenophobia. That irrational fear/hate of anything different is one of the few human institutions which can compete with disease for a high body count.
BTW, will it ever occur to Europeans that the "Holy Land" isn't theirs? Seriously, how much brighter would our world be if Europeans could learn to accept the fact that the rightful inhabitants exercised their right to convert?
I swear, as much as I abhor the death of innocents, I sometimes think a few "neutron bombs" on the "Holy Land" would solve more problems than it would cause.
December 25th, 2007 at 4:30 pmI swear, as much as I abhor the death of innocents, I sometimes think a few “neutron bombs†on the “Holy Land†would solve more problems than it would cause.
Comment by pete — December 25, 2007 @ 4:30 pm
Bombs and killing do nothing to solve a problem. Ask Jebus.
December 25th, 2007 at 5:16 pmI swear, as much as I abhor the death of innocents, I sometimes think a few “neutron bombs†on the “Holy Land†would solve more problems than it would cause.
Comment by pete — December 25, 2007 @ 4:30 pm
There are LOTS of "Holy Lands" on Earth. From Native American Burial Grounds to Conquering Christian Graves to The Vatican to Jerusalem to Pompeii to Atlantis....
December 25th, 2007 at 5:20 pmLet us remind the Pope, that the institution that he represents has enslaved ideologically and politically, millions and millions of people.
December 25th, 2007 at 5:30 pmLet us remind the Pope, that the institution that he represents has enslaved ideologically and politically, millions and millions of people.
Comment by Juan C. — December 25, 2007 @ 5:30 pm
And denied and covered up CRIMES AGAINST CHILDREN!!!
December 25th, 2007 at 5:34 pmLet us remind the Pope, that the institution that he represents has enslaved ideologically and politically, millions and millions of people.
Comment by Juan C. — December 25, 2007 @ 5:30 pm
And supported crimes/murder against Jews!!!
December 25th, 2007 at 5:36 pmAnd supported crimes/murder against Jews!!!
Comment by dixie blood
And if the Pope wanted it, he could help all the poor African boys by selling all the gold from the Vatican buildings and some stocks from their banks.
December 25th, 2007 at 5:38 pmLet us remind the Pope, that the institution that he represents has enslaved ideologically and politically, millions and millions of people.
Comment by Juan C. — December 25, 2007 @ 5:30 pm
The Pope is a WOMAN HATER!!!
December 25th, 2007 at 5:38 pmLet us remind the Pope, that the institution that he represents has enslaved ideologically and politically, millions and millions of people.
Comment by Juan C. — December 25, 2007 @ 5:30 pm
There are blood diamonds and there are blood crosses. The Pope loves a bloody cross!
December 25th, 2007 at 5:40 pmPeace is always preferable to war, though, bombs and killing solved the "problems" of Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan. Jesus is, to the best of our knowledge, still dead. And, it's quite clear to which "Holy Land" the Pope was referring.
I'm not calling for bombing anyone. Just expressing my frustration with the eternal strife that little piece of, almost, desert has precipitated. So long as Europeans/Americans occupy the "Holy Land", and seek to dominate the rest of the region, it's hard to imagine any real change. Especially with Bush's "Crusade" (His word. We should never forget it.) in full swing.
If I could wave a magic wand, I would simply transport anyone of European/American origin and leave Palestine to those who's ancestors never left. Alas, I misplaced my wand in my careless youth.
December 25th, 2007 at 5:45 pmMerry Christmas to ALL. Remember JESUS CHRIST is the reason for the season!
http://osi-speaks.blogspot.com/2007/12/merry-christmas-to-all-for-unto-us.html#links
December 25th, 2007 at 5:46 pm#39:The 'reason for the season': the church was having difficulty 'converting' pagans to the new religion: christianity. The church adopted some of the 'non-believers' rituals: 'rebirth of the earth' - as light grew longer each day after the winter solstice.
December 25th, 2007 at 6:05 pmMerry Christmas to ALL. Remember JESUS CHRIST is the reason for the season!
Comment by KYJurisDoctor — December 25, 2007 @ 5:46 pm
NOT!
The Jebus worshippers co-oped the pagan winter festival of lights, which was a blubbering cry against the impending darkness of the shortening day, in order to con more sheeple into their Jebus beliefs!
December 25th, 2007 at 6:13 pmThe cult of Sol Invictus called. They want their Holy Day back.
December 25th, 2007 at 6:28 pmHere are some more positive thoughts.
Peace and joy have been in short supply for many people around the world. And, it's difficult to see how things will be brighter in the coming year. But, there's lots of hope.
America seems on the cusp of a great change. Our society has produced so many great people, both famous and unknown, I'll stack up our ideals against any civilization in history. Hard choices are in front of us and I think the we have the courage, and resolve, to make them.
So, I urge you all to look in your hearts. Look back at what our nation has been, and forward to what it yet can be. Look to those things we share with others instead of what sets us apart. Judge fairly and in kindness. Learn from the crises we now face and the mistakes of those who came before us. The future can't happen without our wisdom and participation.
And if you feel hopeless please remember what people, united in peace, have accomplished. Don't look for leaders to do it for us. The world has suffered many dark times and always it's been simple folk, citizens of many places and times, who have driven the darkness away. Indeed, if one stands tall, with eyes wide open, the world does not seem so dark. Good intentions have brought low more evil than ill will has created.
If you still don't know what to do? Offer a prayer, a chant, a spell, incantation or just a heartfelt wish:
Peace and joy to one and all!
December 25th, 2007 at 6:32 pmHere is my message to the Pope.
Wake up honey, the year is 2007. We don't sexually abuse children and we stay out of other bedrooms.
Put your money where your mouth is if you want to create sanctuarys for all illegal immigrants.
Come out of the closet.
December 25th, 2007 at 8:13 pmWell, if you look back on how our nation was founded and bloomed, a lot of native americans and slaves were beaten, broken and killed to make us what we are today...whatever we are. It's always nice to knock others, but we all have skeletons in the closet and some people will never be able to erase legacies of insurmountable horror. We can't forget, but the point is to learn and move forward. All of us can only be what we are and only through vigilance can we hold ourselves accountable.
merry whatever you celebrate!
December 25th, 2007 at 8:34 pm"Thats it.
Mock others belief systems.
Mock Christmas on Christmas day.
:|
It makes you look soooo erudite."
So...the truth becomes obsolete for the day?
December 25th, 2007 at 9:33 pmThen I expect you to be very polite during the month of Ramadan, Chanuka, Vesak, Ulambana, Rakhi, Rath Tatra, the Chinese New Year and black history month. Sorry, bud. Your holiday is no more special to me than anybody elses.
December 25th, 2007 at 10:24 pmOh, and are you going to bow in obescience to the pagans (whose holiday this actually is)? You know, those pagans the Christians slaughtered and tortured? Thanks for your advice but...no thanks.
December 25th, 2007 at 10:26 pmBlessed Festivus, mr pope.
December 25th, 2007 at 10:30 pmHoly crap, I'm not very religious, and I love this blog and everything, but come on people, we don't have to bash religion everytime it is mentioned. The pope is right, can we not just be happy for once and agree?
December 25th, 2007 at 11:28 pmYeah, the Nazi youth pope is right, as always.
December 25th, 2007 at 11:37 pmAnd if you don't get the reference, Google it.
December 25th, 2007 at 11:38 pmI cannot believe that you are not even reading the words that this world leader -- whether you like him or not -- is saying. What progressive in his right mind should start throwing "shit" at these progressive ideas? Isn't this what we want world leaders to say to our "fake" president? Isn't this what we all wanted Blair to say to Bush in private? But, NOOOOO. We start throwing around our prejudice and our hate. We call him a Nazi (how ignorant), the bringer of the "dark ages" -- which any true historian will lay at the feet of northern intruders, hater of women and a child abuser. I am so disappointed in you, my fellow liberals/progressives. Sometimes I think the right-wing-nuts have it right about us. We couldn't even build a boat with a 500 year flood coming. Go back and re-read those words and leave the self-righteous prejudice to the right-wing-nuts.
Liberal, progressive, Catholic and proud. BTW, don't respond to me because I never read past the 5th or 6th post.
December 26th, 2007 at 12:20 amBlueStateProgRel, sorry but old Benedict is anything but progressive. And the reason we call him a Nazi is because...he was a Nazi!!!
December 26th, 2007 at 12:44 amAnd if you don't read past the 5th or 6th post...you are an ignorant troll. Go away.
December 26th, 2007 at 12:45 amI honestly don't understand the animosity that I sense against Catholicism (and religion in general) in threads such as this one.
In the Vatican's defence, they have resisted Pres Bush's attempts at co-opting Catholic support for the occupation of Iraq, and the Pope has been openly critical of this administration's dismal human rights record.
I specially liked the Pope's reference to "those who are still denied their legitimate aspirations for a more secure existence, for health, education, stable employment", which is the exact opposite of what our conservative visitors claim are their Christian "values".
Someone needs to explain to me why they feel a compelling need to scorn this man and what he said.
December 26th, 2007 at 12:47 amGregor, I would buy it if it were John Paul. I don't buy it with Benedict. I am not scorning what he said. I am scorning who he is.
December 26th, 2007 at 12:51 amRatzinger is tight with Opus Dei (you know, the guys that want the new Crusades). Sorry, I don't buy an extremist right winger's words as president, much less as pope.
December 26th, 2007 at 12:55 amI don't get why anybody in the liberal anywhere would listen to a Nazi Youth that was in bed with Opus Dei. The words were pretty. I just don't think he believes them.
December 26th, 2007 at 1:00 amI don’t get why anybody in the liberal anywhere would listen to a Nazi Youth that was in bed with Opus Dei.
Comment by Sabyen91 — December 26, 2007 @ 1:00 am
I don't necessarily "listen" to the Pope, but I know millions do.
Again, in his defence, joining the Hitler Youth was compulsory in Germany during WWII. Ratzinger was a young teenager back then, over 60 years ago, and he defected. How long, how many years must go by before a man is forgiven for what he did when he was a boy?
Also, the Opus Dei is an institution within the Catholic Church; I would think it difficult for the head of the Church not to be "in bed" with the Opus.
The Opus Dei wants new crusades? (I am assuming you mean in the Middle East) First time I "hear" about it.
December 26th, 2007 at 1:14 amWhy are there no moderate Catholics who will speak up and condemn peace? Did they forget are fighting a war?
http://13martyrs.blogspot.com/
December 26th, 2007 at 8:58 amGregor, perhaps if you were born and raised a Catholic, and rejected their belief system during your teen years, you might have a different vision of their mission on earth.
December 26th, 2007 at 11:47 amSometimes I think this site is too left for its own good. Yes the pope was a Nazi just like all young German children in that time, whether they wanted to be or not, and yes the Catholic Church has committed atrocities against innocent people in the name of religion, but at least they have been trying to correct this and have accepted blame for their past crimes. I commend the pope for sending a message of hope in a world that needs it now more then ever.
December 26th, 2007 at 11:52 amComment by RUCerious — December 26, 2007 @ 11:47 am
Perhaps you are right, and perhaps that is at the root of the animosity of other commenters: I was raised with a complete lack of belief in any religion, so I didn't have to go through a painful "break up" period.
Other people's personal bitterness over religion is something that has always baffled me a bit, since I am indifferent to it.
December 26th, 2007 at 12:41 pmcma12
Your point is well taken, especially during a time when we should look to more positive approaches to life in general, and our daily lives in particular.
As to being too left at times, it seems that left or right, bloggers cannot refrain from name calling and serving up gratuitous unsupported opinions. I stay with TP because on balance, the input is more reasoned and I find real gems at times.
Still, when I hear the infallable pope wish for good will toward children, I wish he would outwardly condemn child molestation in his church as a more specific and useful pronouncement. And when I see him ask for help for the poor and down trodden as he stands bedecked in gold and jewel encrusted cult-like garb, the hypocrisy does not escape me. If as Jesus preached, the rich have as much chance reaching heaven as a camel passing through the eye of a needle, does the pope, and the members of his very rich church take pause to reflect on this day we all set aside with hopes for peace and well-being for all?
Still, peace and well-being to all. Keep up the discussions, its still a free country. Thanks TP for your work this year....
December 26th, 2007 at 12:48 pmGregor Samsa
A few recent reasons really.
The Catholic Church declared itself neutral to Nazi Germany and has been trying to cover that one up for the last fifty years. They did this because the Vatican was more important to the Church than any stance on principles.
Which resulted in this current Pope getting into a fight with Israel over Israel's decision to portray the Vatican's stance towards Hitler in an honest and straightforward manner.
In current scandals the Church has been shown to have had a policy of moving around its pedophile priests instead of turning them into the due authorities. Indeed, the Church has used religious freedom to protect this policy. This policy came into effect because, well, not being embarrassed was more important to the Church than its principles were.
The current Pope declared a bunch of Itallian rock stars criticising the Church "terrorism." Because you know, those rock stars much have had some really explosive hits.
And of course the current pope was indeed a member of the Hitler Youth, which is understandable seen as he didn't have much choice in the matter when he was growing up.
And lets not get started on the long history of attrocities, genocides, and acts of sheer stupidity that is the period when the Church was at its most powerful.
That said, there is nothing wrong with Catholicism as a whole, Catholics are people and generally, like most people, not bad people. Further, the Catholic Church has become one of the more forward thinking churches and deserves a lot of respect for having changed its ways on science, royalism, and anti-Semitism.
It is just subject to the same human weaknesses all social movements which function on trust are subject to.
That the priest is seen as above reproach in society attracts the kinds of guys who feel the need to be above reproach - pedophiles, conmen, fascists and other lowlifes - along with people who actually deserve to be trusted and who are just mistaken in their belief systems.
With more of this bad element making it into a cassock, you end up with the old society, as before, striving to cover it up and save face. It is human, it is weak, and it really annoys atheists because the Church claims to be the arbiter of ultimate morality and every religious movement seems infected with the "God is the source of all morality" meme.
December 26th, 2007 at 1:09 pmOkay, before this degenerates to someone proclaiming all people with beliefs are fanatics...
Sabyen91
I don't like Ratzinger. In my mind the guy should be held criminally liable for the Church's policy towards pedophile priests - as an accomplice in every case where the Church learned of a priest diddling little kids and moved the priest.
That said, he had no real choice when it came to joining the Hitler Youth. At the time it was the law of the land and he was just a kid.
As to the celebration of Christmas, well
- I didn't know they even had fir trees in Jerusalem.
- Aren't reindeer native to areas further to the north?
- The Big Fat Man in red was dressed in green up until Coke rebranded him.
Its a hodgepodge of differing traditions that go surprisingly well together. Instead of something to scorn I see it as being something to celebrate, after all, what is more important the party or the excuse to party?
December 26th, 2007 at 1:28 pminto should be in to
December 26th, 2007 at 1:29 pmBARTLEBEE
If by people who insult Christmas by turning it into a political football (Like the guys who go on about there being a war on it) then amen.
If you mean insult by say, pointing out that it has a wider, and far richer history than just that presented by Christianity, I have questions as to how exactly the day is being insulted.
After all, is Christmas really just a celebration of the birth of a holy figure? Isn't it more about us trying for at least one day, to be the sorts of people who we wish we could be without feeling embarassed about the sappiness of the whole thing?
Isn't it about striving to be good people, and putting aside the tough guy BS for one day?
Because normally, what really gets in the way of us being good people, isn't that we don't want to be good, it is that we feel sort of self conscious about it.
Sure, there are religious undertones, but there is so much more to it than Jesus. Heck, nowadays with the Big Fat Coke Commercial, the fir tree, the reindeer, the presents, and the various semi-pagan traditions such as kissing under a sprig of holly, or elves for that matter, Jesus is lucky to get a look in.
This isn't an insult, but rather a tribute to how the festival has grown beyond its origins, how it has adapted and become a part of a far larger portion of who we are, how it has become something which people of all faiths and non-faiths can champion.
December 27th, 2007 at 2:58 amBARTLEBEE
Aww, Bart, are you going to start calling me a fanatic again?
Or are you really just to stupid to notice that I was actually saying that the holiday taking on local traditions was a good thing?
December 27th, 2007 at 1:50 pmBARTLEBEE
Oh, and I reported it as abuse.
December 27th, 2007 at 2:08 pm