Aldous Huxley’s ‘Brave New World’ Convinced Bush To Ban Embryonic Stem Cell Research
Aldous Huxley’s ‘Brave New World’ Convinced Bush To Ban Embryonic Stem Cell Research
Shortly after taking office, President Bush announced a policy allowing federal funding of research only on existing stem cell lines, despite the urging of several of his advisers and the scientific community for expanded funding. Bush has nevertheless remained stubborn, twice vetoing legislation that would have lifted the restrictions.
In a new piece in Commentary magazine, Jay Lefkowitz — who advised Bush on stem cells — reveals how the President formulated his 2001 policy. While Bush heard from a variety of groups on both sides of the issue, the turning point appeared to come when Lefkowitz read from Aldous Huxley’s fictional novel, Brave New World, and scared Bush:
A few days later, I brought into the Oval Office my copy of Brave New World, Aldous Huxley’s 1932 anti-utopian novel, and as I read passages aloud imagining a future in which humans would be bred in hatcheries, a chill came over the room.
“We’re tinkering with the boundaries of life here,” Bush said when I finished. “We’re on the edge of a cliff. And if we take a step off the cliff, there’s no going back. Perhaps we should only take one step at a time.”
It’s unclear what passage Lefkowitz read, but Brave New World opens with a scene at the Central London Hatchery and Conditioning Centre, where embryos are turned into full human beings — often dozens of pairs of “identical twins” to ensure “social stability.”
Scientists are not proposing such fictional experiments and recognize the need to balance ethics with scientific progress. In fact, the legislation expanding embryonic stem cell research (vetoed by Bush) — actually proposed ethics regulations that were stricter than Bush’s. Additionally, a bill banning human cloning was blocked by conservatives in Congress in June.
Six years since the President’s misguided, outdated restrictions, the scientific community has come together in support of lifting this ban. Even University of Wisconsin Professor James Thomson, whose work isolating embryonic stem cells has been used by the right wing — including Lefkowitz — as vindication for Bush’s policies, has stressed that the administration’s restrictive stem cell policies are “counter to both scientific and public opinion” and are inhibiting potential treatments.
Sort Comments By: Top Rated | Date
Apparently no one has taken a copy of “1984″ into the oval office.
-G
December 26th, 2007 at 8:27 pmMe thinks Bush should stick to fictional stories of Pet Goats. If he handles that then we’ll move on to 4th grade reading material.
December 26th, 2007 at 8:30 pm“A chill came over the room.”
I can imagine. Someone had the nerve to bring a book into the same room with Bush. No way to know how he’s going to respond to the written word.
December 26th, 2007 at 8:31 pmLet’s make sure in this final year of the Bush regime, no one brings George a copy of Fail Safe.
December 26th, 2007 at 8:35 pmIt’s sad that we have a president who has to be spoon-fed pieces of books like Brave New World, instead of having read it in its entirety before he was 30. It’s sadder still that someone who actually was familiar with the book’s full content and import was so careful to use only the pieces that supported a narrow agenda and ignore the rest. Will this alliance between the stupid people and the evil ones ever end?
December 26th, 2007 at 8:36 pmA book that comes with a box of crayons is more to George’s level.
December 26th, 2007 at 8:37 pmPlease don’t even joke about ice-9 around him!
December 26th, 2007 at 8:43 pmquick someone take away his copy of Mein Kampf and send Bush a copy Naomi Wolf’s “end of America”
December 26th, 2007 at 8:43 pmI’m wondering what novel was partially read to him to inspire the “human-animal hybrids” line. The Island of Doctor Moreau, perhaps?
December 26th, 2007 at 8:44 pmWait…. does this mean Pres Bush hadn’t read the book before Lefkowitz read it to him!? Seriously, does this man read anything at all?
Not to mention that the type of cloning imagined by Huxley didn’t use stem cells; it required recently-fertilized eggs (embryos). So Lefkowitz and Bush were wrong on that account too…
December 26th, 2007 at 8:46 pmOf course, the parts in the book that describe how the lower casts are automatons that mindlessly follow orders from the top cast didn’t merit much thought from the blue-blood man who loathes tough questions from the little people in the White House press corps…
December 26th, 2007 at 8:51 pmI view any newsmedia stories that president bush reads books with a grain of salt…
December 26th, 2007 at 8:56 pmWhat lessons did Chimpler learn when The Pet Goat was read to him?
-G
December 26th, 2007 at 8:57 pmAnd I suppose we can expect Pres Bush to base future decisions on space exploration on Star Trek or Star Wars any day now…
December 26th, 2007 at 8:58 pmI can’t be the only one that feels an illness coming on every time I see that stupid phucks picture.
December 26th, 2007 at 9:04 pmComment by americangoy — December 26, 2007 @ 8:56 pm
Tedious at times but if you haven’t read “Salt”, it is worth checking out
December 26th, 2007 at 9:04 pmTedious at times but if you haven’t read “Saltâ€, it is worth checking out
Comment by dbadass — December 26, 2007 @ 9:04 pm
Kurlansky’s book? Tedious? You’re mad, son, mad. Frickin’ brilliant book.
His book on the Basques is fascinating and so is “Cod”, but “Salt” is brilliant.
December 26th, 2007 at 9:27 pmI think we will realize many of the things covered by science fiction novels, regardless of any ethics scientists may uphold, because the desire to receive acclaim, and hence funding, is to great a need and desire.
As for books to shape your political outlook, Animal Farm is a great start, followed by 1984, Atlas Shrugged and Fountainhead.
December 26th, 2007 at 9:28 pmI guess eternal war is preferable to embryonics when it comes to social stability..oh wait that hasn’t worked since, what, around 2700 BC?
I am not buying this latest Scheherazade from Casa Blanca
December 26th, 2007 at 9:36 pmToo bad Bush hasn’t bothered to read The Constitution of the United States.
Oh, that’s right. To Chimpy, it’s just a goddamned piece of paper.
December 26th, 2007 at 9:37 pmDespite the present First Lady’s background in reading programs, I am surprised the the President has progressed beyond the Dick and Jane reader.
Simple man? Or, simpleton?
Is it not terrifying that this man can set broad policies on the basis of fictional works, but never lets reality—say, the soon to be confirmed death of the 3,900th soldier, sailor, airmen or marine in Iraq—influence policy at all?
December 26th, 2007 at 9:37 pmThis man is so easily influenced, so stupid, so stubborn and such an airhead…and this just sinks it once and for all.
Cheney has been having a field day with this fool. Ever since he headed Bush’s VP-search ‘committee’ and discovered that HE, Dick Cheney, was the BEST POSSIBLE CANDIDATE, it’s been Good Times on a stick.
December 26th, 2007 at 9:41 pmJason has read Atlas Shrugged. Right. And what did you learn about yourself Jay?
December 26th, 2007 at 9:41 pmMy god! The President of the United States of America never read “Brave New world” before and has to have someone else reading it loud for him?????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I wonder how he manage to read “My pet Goat” on 9/11. Perhaps he prepared it months in advance together with the attacks… Or that was his role while dick chenney masterminded it all with the help of CIA and Blackwater.
December 26th, 2007 at 9:43 pmAnd what did you learn about yourself Jay?
Comment by Bobwurst — December 26, 2007 @ 9:41 pm
You’re kidding, right? ;)
December 26th, 2007 at 9:43 pmCreating the Brave New Bush Crime Family police state… way to go, George…
December 26th, 2007 at 9:45 pmToo bad Bush hasn’t bothered to read The Constitution of the United States.
Did he ever read anything??? I beleive he didn’t even have a passport before being
president.
December 26th, 2007 at 9:47 pmComment by gummitch — December 26, 2007 @ 9:27 pm
Have you read the oyster one?
December 26th, 2007 at 9:47 pm…what strikes me is that his view on embyronics has nothing to do with pro-life but that he fears social stability.
We cannot have social stability because we must have crisis management?
December 26th, 2007 at 9:47 pmToo bad Bush hasn’t bothered to read The Constitution of the United States.
I don’t think he knows of the existance of it!!!!
December 26th, 2007 at 9:49 pmAnd if we take a step off the cliff, there’s no going back. Perhaps we should only take one step at a time.â€
WHAT? Take one step at a time off a cliff? I call moron on this one.
December 26th, 2007 at 9:54 pmI wonder who will read his indictment to him.
And when.
That should spread a chill over the room and joy over the land.
December 26th, 2007 at 9:55 pmActually, I am quite surprised at this story.
I thought GDumbya learned everything he knows from the first “Matrix” movie.
December 26th, 2007 at 10:03 pmHave you read the oyster one?
Comment by dbadass — December 26, 2007 @ 9:47 pm
I’m not sure I even finished it. It just didn’t have the same snap. Of course, with cod he could tie in an enormous amount of European history and with salt, well, with salt it was some of the most important (and ignored) human history of all. After that, oysters?
December 26th, 2007 at 10:12 pmThey blocked science for Jesus votes.
December 26th, 2007 at 10:13 pmRepublicans don’t read.
Schiavo. Don’t ever forget Schiavo.
December 26th, 2007 at 10:14 pmTom Delay:
“It’s never been proven that air toxics [sic] are hazardous to people.”
These are the monsters who hate science.
December 26th, 2007 at 10:17 pmTom Delay:
“It’s never been proven that air toxics [sic] are hazardous to people.â€
These are the monsters who hate science.
Comment by Guido OBGYN Lover — December 26, 2007 @ 10:17 pm
Did he really say that? Hysterical. Air toxics must be hazardous to everything else. What a moron.
I don’t think they hate science so much as they’re askeert of it. Too many intangibles, too many possibilities. It’s much safer just to have Answers.
December 26th, 2007 at 10:28 pmIsn’t that sweet; George is still being read to after all these years. His parents should be so proud. Pretty soon he will be formulating complete sentences. What next?
December 26th, 2007 at 10:30 pmJoseph Goebbels would be proud of today’s American Democrat Party, as today’s Democrat Party embraces the ideology of Josef Mengele.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 26, 2007 @ 10:40 pm
What an ever-persistent f_ckwit.
December 26th, 2007 at 10:43 pmyet “1984″ didn’t convince him that intrusion into people’s lives was wrong?
December 26th, 2007 at 10:44 pmI’m only here to represent the mainstream of America among this mind-numbing disregard for human life, and mind-numbing ignorance.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 26, 2007 @ 10:53 pm
You delude yourself. You do not represent mainstream America. However, you do represent mind-numbing disregard for human life, and staggering ignorance.
December 26th, 2007 at 10:55 pmI’m only here to represent the mainstream of America among this mind-numbing disregard for human life, and mind-numbing ignorance.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 26, 2007 @ 10:53 pm
Lighten up dude. It’s not the the aim of science to clone W.
December 26th, 2007 at 10:56 pmBigfoot’s mind is certainly numb as W’s. Take it easy on the Jeezus Juice.
December 26th, 2007 at 11:02 pmI’m only here to represent the mainstream of America among this mind-numbing disregard for human life, and mind-numbing ignorance.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 26, 2007 @ 10:53 pm
You only represent your own fat ass, Bigfoot, despite your illusion that you’re somehow representative of the common man. You’re so far out on the lost fringe you’ll topple off any minute now.
Being a pompous fathead does not make you smart; that’s the part you’re having so much trouble with.
December 26th, 2007 at 11:10 pmAmazing how libs want to open the door to medical experimentation on humans, yet they call conservatives “Nazisâ€.
Joseph Goebbels would be proud of today’s American Democrat Party, as today’s Democrat Party embraces the ideology of Josef Mengele.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 26, 2007 @ 10:40 pm
You must be really stupid that you don’t know the difference between scientific, ethically conducted human trials and torture.
How do you think medication gets on the market? Or any cancer treatment? The testing includes human trials.
With enough stem cell research we may be able to provide even you with a brain that works.
December 26th, 2007 at 11:11 pmWith enough stem cell research we may be able to provide even you with a brain that works.
Comment by eve — December 26, 2007 @ 11:11 pm
Let’s not get carried away. We’re not talking E E Doc Smith here.
December 26th, 2007 at 11:13 pmBeing a pompous fathead does not make you smart; that’s the part you’re having so much trouble with.
Comment by gummitch — December 26, 2007 @ 11:10 pmâ€
And you just keep believing that, gummitch. You just keep believing that.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 26, 2007 @ 11:18 pm
Oh, so being a pompous fathead does make you smart?
December 26th, 2007 at 11:22 pmFRANCE/SARKOZY: President Bling-Bling isn’t Santa Claus. Decay and degeneration at new levels
December 26th, 2007 at 11:24 pm“Only liberals can condone medical experimentation on humans, yet tell those who are against such abomination that they are the ones who have ‘disregard for human life’.”
So where are these experiments on human beings, on par with the atrocities that the Nazis commited?
December 26th, 2007 at 11:26 pmOf course you realize you only have credence with your fellow libs, right?
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 26, 2007 @ 11:15 pm
Only a conservative would confuse an embryo with an actual living human being, and would condone the denial of basic human rights, education, medical care, and dignity to said humans.
I don’t need “credence” with fools like you.
December 26th, 2007 at 11:27 pmIf it’s an frozen embryo, George will “protect” it.
December 26th, 2007 at 11:29 pmIf it’s a poor child already born, YOYO. We have wars to fund.
And could someone please get Bush a copy of “Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy”?
We must deal with the threat of the Vogon Constructor Fleet NOW, before it’s too late.
December 26th, 2007 at 11:31 pmI don’t remember that book having pictures. Oh…wait, it was read TO him.
December 26th, 2007 at 11:32 pm“Oh, so being a pompous fathead does make you smart?
Comment by gummitch — December 26, 2007 @ 11:22 pmâ€
You just keep believing that, gummitch.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 26, 2007 @ 11:28 pm
Oh I don’t believe it at all. I think you’re a pompous fathead AND stupid.
December 26th, 2007 at 11:33 pmHas the Chimperror ever demonstrated an ability to understand anything more complex than squeezing the throttle of a chain saw? Every word I’ve read about him seems to indicate a profound ignorance of, and contempt for, science.
December 26th, 2007 at 11:40 pmThankfully, conservatives have continued to put a stop to even the beginnings of such things.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 26, 2007 @ 11:32 pm
Wrong again, BigMoron.
December 26th, 2007 at 11:42 pmThanks for the Salt book reference - looks interesting (yes I am a big geek).
And:
“My god! The President of the United States of America never read “Brave New world†before and has to have someone else reading it loud for him?????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I wonder how he manage to read “My pet Goat†on 9/11. Perhaps he prepared it months in advance together with the attacks…”
Hmmmmm… you know you MIGHT have something there…
December 26th, 2007 at 11:42 pmYou have every right to believe what you will, no matter how wrong.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 26, 2007 @ 11:36 pm
Gosh, thanks.
When you stop demonstrating that you’re a stupid pompous fathead, I’ll also feel free to change my opinion.
December 26th, 2007 at 11:43 pmHey, Footie!!
Jes wanted ta say how impressed I was with yer candor here. We had kinda already figgered it out, but ta hear if come from yer own mouf, so to speak…
“I support Mitt Romney for President. One of my hobbies is auto-fellatio. I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Anything else to say?
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 24, 2007 @ 6:52 pm
Nice Jingle Ballsâ„¢. Very festive ‘n holiday-like, ya know!
December 26th, 2007 at 11:43 pmLighten up, Bigfoot. It’s not like we are cheering when Iraqi children die.
December 26th, 2007 at 11:45 pmHuman embryo = human life.
There is no dignity in a welfare state.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 26, 2007 @ 11:35 pm
A human embryo survives at the will of the host. Period.
There is no dignity in your little dog-eat-dog world. You’ll see.
December 26th, 2007 at 11:46 pmLighten up, Bigfoot. It’s not like we are cheering when Iraqi children die.
Comment by Juan C. — December 26, 2007 @ 11:45 pm
No, only BigBloodthirstyMoron and his kind cheer then…
December 26th, 2007 at 11:48 pmNo, Juan. We can leave that to Fox News and their ever-so-exciting Shock And Aweâ„¢ presentation. And of course, the bedrock crazy 24% who STILL support Herr Brusch.
December 26th, 2007 at 11:48 pmThere is no dignity in your little dog-eat-dog world. You’ll see.
Comment by Zooey
Zoo, you are being too harsh on him. People who follow Straussian doctrines have never been very well educated.
December 26th, 2007 at 11:49 pmThere is no dignity in a welfare state.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 26, 2007 @ 11:35 pm
The GOP running the USA into the ground is not exactly a display of dignity, nor intelligence.
December 26th, 2007 at 11:51 pmOops! He did, reportedly, manage to survive being a pilot.
Why do the Reich-wingers seldom seem to complain about the industrial “human experimentation” at “fertility clinics”?
December 26th, 2007 at 11:52 pmZoo, you are being too harsh on him. People who follow Straussian doctrines have never been very well educated.
Comment by Juan C. — December 26, 2007 @ 11:49 pm
Silly me, I keep trying.
December 26th, 2007 at 11:54 pmGOOPers wage war on reason, war on science, war on working people…all they want to do is drink the Jeezus juice and breed and live on their ddividends with no taxes. Drink up foot in mouth.
December 26th, 2007 at 11:56 pmGOP corruption and greed is what Big Fat Foot in Mouth finds dignified.
December 26th, 2007 at 11:58 pmA million dead Iraqis is sooooo dignified.
December 27th, 2007 at 12:00 amI already told you that you have every right to your opinion, no matter how wrong your opinion is. Why change anything?
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 26, 2007 @ 11:57 pm
Try “I’m rubber and you’re glue,” I heard that works really well.
December 27th, 2007 at 12:00 amHow can one advocate the preservation of embryos, as “human life”, yet fail to be against war, if not a pacifist? It’s never made the slightest sense to me.
December 27th, 2007 at 12:03 ampete, are you referring to the most admired man in America?
Comment by CaptainMantastic — December 27, 2007 @ 12:03 am
10% — Utter bullshit.
December 27th, 2007 at 12:06 amStrong economy, winning the war on terror, lower taxes, low unemployment, record home ownership. The U.S. should always be run into the ground like this.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 26, 2007 @ 11:59 pm
Dollar dropping like a lead balloon, Housing bubble rippling through the world economy, higher taxes for working people, few fat cats getting richer doing squat, no oversight of imports, lead poisoning our children, not enough new jobs to keep pace with population growth…not to mention an overstretched nearly broken military, wounded veterans being neglected, over a million dollars a minute to finance the deficit the GOP has run up, neglected roads, bridges railways, denying American Citizens their right to vote…etc., etc.
December 27th, 2007 at 12:08 amWe all know that Yale AND HARVARD graduates are stupid. (sarc).
Comment by good_golly
I guess in Yale they teach you the definition of the word: SOVEREIGNITY., maybe Bush wasn’t that day in the classroom.
December 27th, 2007 at 12:11 am“record home ownership…”
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 26, 2007 @ 11:59 pm
About to be followed by record loss of homes…
December 27th, 2007 at 12:11 am“A rising tide lifts all boats.â€
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 27, 2007 @ 12:08 am
Debunked by actual events. Please pay attention.
This is getting boring. Bye.
December 27th, 2007 at 12:13 amLibs discourage science by shouting down any dissent from their pre-concieved ideas.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 27, 2007 @ 12:08 am
Oh yeah… “The Earth is only 6,000 years old” is a valid scientific theory…
December 27th, 2007 at 12:13 amI EARN my living by my labor.
December 27th, 2007 at 12:13 amConservatives want everyone to excel, live off their dividends if possible, and keep more of what they earn with lower taxes.
In other words, rather than keeping everyone down, as liberals would prefer, conservatives want everyone to have the ability and environment from with to rise to greatness.
“A rising tide lifts all boats.â€
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 27, 2007 @ 12:08 am
If only conservatives weren’t utterly incompetent at executing this dream of theirs given the opportunity, what a wonderful world it would be.
Your “libs this” and “libs that” must be a hot seller on redstate, but it’s pretty funny you try to peddle such obvious fabrications here. We all know you’re delusional, so it’s truly strange that you feel the need to prattle on anyway. It can only be to stoke your own imagination and to demonstrate, again, one a pompous fathead you are.
The so-called rising tide lifts the yachts; people like you delude yourselves into thinking that the yacht owners won’t step on you to board.
December 27th, 2007 at 12:14 amWhen chimpy went to READ the constitution he must have said: “What, no pictures?….it’s just a goddamn piece of paper!”.
December 27th, 2007 at 12:15 amWhen a member of the National Right to Life delegation took out a public-opinion poll to bolster his claim that opposition to stem-cell research would be a winning issue politically, Bush swatted the paper away and replied with uncommon sharpness: “This is too important an issue to take polls about. I am going to decide this based on what I believe is right.†— NOW THAT, SIR IS LEADERSHIP.
Comment by good_golly — December 27, 2007 @ 12:13 am
That, sir, is arrogant narrow-minded stupidity. Just what one would expect from no-nothings.
December 27th, 2007 at 12:15 amMaybe Bigfoot just let it all out from his chest and now will become a nice person.
LIke the George C. Scott’s character.
December 27th, 2007 at 12:16 amI EARN my living by my labor, yet I am taxed at a higher rate than some fat a$$ who sits by the pool collecting interest. F you pig GOP pigs.
December 27th, 2007 at 12:16 amMost Conservatives already have one.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 27, 2007 @ 12:13 am
And he’s going down in the books as the worst president in the history of the country.
Of course, if you’re talking religion, you forgot to capitalize the “O”, as in “have One”. But you’re really not a religious person, or you’d have a conscience about smearing people and telling the lies you do.
Nice Jingle Ballsâ„¢… isn’t it Hobby Time, Li’l Feller?
December 27th, 2007 at 12:16 amLiberals are always looking for a savior.
Most Conservatives already have one.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 27, 2007 @ 12:13 am
Which would explain why totalitarians and fascists require a strong leader. Does this dribble make sense in your head? Because out here, it’s so ridiculous that it passes the border of parody.
December 27th, 2007 at 12:17 amThe issue is more complex than just funding promising science.
Comment by CaptainMantastic — December 27, 2007 @ 12:19 am
Yeah, just have somebody read you a bit of BRAVE NEW WORLD.
December 27th, 2007 at 12:21 am“Only liberals can condone medical experimentation on humans, yet tell those who are against such abomination that they are the ones who have ‘disregard for human life’.â€
So where are these experiments on human beings, on par with the atrocities that the Nazis commited?
Comment by RickS — December 26, 2007 @ 11:26 pmâ€
Thankfully, conservatives have continued to put a stop to even the beginnings of such things.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 26, 2007 @ 11:32 pm
December 27th, 2007 at 12:24 amTorturing supposed “enemy combatants” is ‘putting a stop’ to those types of things ?
The issue is more complex than just funding promising science.
Comment by CaptainMantastic — December 27, 2007 @ 12:19 am
Not quite sure attaching stem cell research to D&E abortions is valid.
One is an unpleasant but sometimes necessary medical procedure, and the other is research. Not… the… same…, at all.
One could also say you’re trying to transfer the distaste people have for abortion to stem cell research too.
Nice try, though.
December 27th, 2007 at 12:25 amFootie never answered that one, because he had no answer, MC.
December 27th, 2007 at 12:26 amThankfully, conservatives have continued to put a stop to even the beginnings of such things.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 26, 2007 @ 11:32 pm
Right so people with spinal chord injuries have to go to other countries, like China for treatment. Tell us again how we have the best medicatl treatment in the world, dumbass. http://www.opednews.com/ maxwrite/ linkframe.php?linkid=48177
December 27th, 2007 at 12:27 amJeebutz Kreist! This fool has 0 for his science knowledge.
and…
We’re on the edge of a cliff. And if we take a step off the cliff, there’s no going back. Perhaps we should only take one step at a time.â€
Yeah, on the edge of a cliff, you should take one step over the edge at a time, moron.
He can’t even get a goddamed metaphor straight, let alone make an informed decision about critical policy. phuck, another 13 months of this idiot.
December 27th, 2007 at 12:28 amThere is no dignity in your little dog-eat-dog world. You’ll see.
Comment by Zooey — December 26, 2007 @ 11:46 pm
Oh does Bigfoot sell dog meat out of his door to door meat truck? Sanctity of life my ass!
December 27th, 2007 at 12:30 amLiberals are always looking for a savior.
Most Conservatives already have one.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — December 27, 2007 @ 12:13 am
Kidding yourself into believing a military deserting moron who is a former cheerleader along with a 5 deferrment coward who believes shooting and killing flightless birds is “sport” are capable of “protecting you” from fictionalized Muslim boogey-men is beyond ludicrous and is patently ridiculous ; much less anything and everything else they’ve both screwed up during the last 7 years.
It’s like feeding false information into a computer ; you’ll emerge with the result you crave , but it isn’t the correct one………
December 27th, 2007 at 12:32 amJames Thomson, the foremost stem-cell researcher in the United States, put it plainly: “If human embryonic stem-cell research does not make you at least a little bit uncomfortable, you have not thought about it enough.â€
Comment by good_golly
Kind of like opposing federal funds to provide medical coverage for children.
December 27th, 2007 at 12:32 amHow can “progressives†claim to value human life but then be in favor of “partial birth abortion†and experimenting on embryos. It’s a very short step from there to actually completing the birth process by a few moments more and then experimenting on “the fetus†(baby).
Comment by good_golly — December 27, 2007 @ 12:07 am
How can neocons claim to be prolife while they are cheering the death of one million Iraqis?
December 27th, 2007 at 12:33 amWhat is the Numbskull in Chief doing to that kid in the picture?
December 27th, 2007 at 12:36 amFootie never answered that one, because he had no answer, MC.
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — December 27, 2007 @ 12:26 am
Because there simply isn’t one.
I don’t recall the state or the venue , but one of the most repulsive , disgusting and despicable things I ever witnessed in my life , was the one GOP presidential candidates debate , where each and every GOP imbecile on the stage was trying ‘out-do’ the other in condoning and even increasing the use of torture ; and the morons in the audience were going wild in agreement……..
December 27th, 2007 at 12:36 amBrave New World.. Unbelievable. And I read that book in high school. Bush is like the people in Huxley’s book that took soma. Bush has been on soma since he took office. And I agree. Someone should have frisbeed a copy of “1984″ book and also the DVD movie of “V for Vendetta.” I don’t Bush can spell utopia or comprehend the word “totalitarian.” Look how Bush was a village idiot in his interview on NBC News with Brian Williams when Williams asked him about the book that Bush claimed to had read: Albert Camus’s “The Stranger.”
December 27th, 2007 at 12:37 amThey hesitate to concede the moral implications of partial birth abortion because that admission might lead to wider bans on earlier term abortions that are less morally challenging.
Comment by CaptainMantastic — December 27, 2007 @ 12:36 am
But you do, by putting the two together the way you do.
Prima facie - it’s right in front of your face, the two different subject matters linked in one sentence. Sorry, but it’s impossible to escape the implication.
December 27th, 2007 at 12:38 amNow it’s official George W. Bush can’t read. He has to have someone read to him. No wonder he never finished the book My Pet Goat. Please Connie finish reading the book to George so you can start reading him another children’s book.
December 27th, 2007 at 12:40 amI personnally lament the death of any Iraqis.
Comment by CaptainMantastic — December 27, 2007 @ 12:39 am
But you support Bush which means you support the illegal invasion of a sovereign nation with what intent exactly?
December 27th, 2007 at 12:41 am“Not quite sure attaching stem cell research to D&E abortions is valid.â€
Republic:
I’m not equating the two. I’m saying that when conservatives want to show restraint, it’s due to a concern of ’slippery slope’. Allowing some use of embryos whose use is in turn used as justification of wider or more extensive use of other embryos. Just like the argument of pro-choice defenders of partial birth abortion. They hesitate to concede the moral implications of partial birth abortion because that admission might lead to wider bans on earlier term abortions that are less morally challenging.
Comment by CaptainMantastic — December 27, 2007 @ 12:36 am
Why the hell do Cancervatives always talk about some “slippery slope” when it comes to an issue that they stupidly believe they’re righteous about , and ignore everything the idiot occupying the Oval Office has done in increasing his own individual power as president ; and most of the times , it appears he’s doing it illegally…..?
December 27th, 2007 at 12:41 amHow about that photo of George trying his “dangest” to look sympathetic to the child he is doing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to help? How typical. Ever notice that EVERYONE he screws he tries to get some staged photo taken of the victim? He must keep some “bragging book” somewhere of all the people he helped kill with his Republican brand of compassionate conservatism.
December 27th, 2007 at 12:41 amWhat’s so bad about human/animal hybrids? Personally, I’d love a prehensile tail and the night vision of a cat. Failing that, I’d settle for a more effective treatment for my arthritis. I’m currently putting off having a couple vertebrae “fused” until I can’t control the pain with anti-inflammatory medication.
December 27th, 2007 at 12:43 amI personnally lament the death of any Iraqis.
Comment by CaptainMantastic — December 27, 2007 @ 12:39 am
But you support Bush which means you support the illegal invasion of a sovereign nation with what intent exactly?
Comment by Shayne — December 27, 2007 @ 12:41 am
Bargain oil prices…………
December 27th, 2007 at 12:46 amI concede your point. To me, they are life issues. But, it is obviously unreasonable to equate the two. I was trying to show that slippery slope is a reasonable concern for these kinds of issues and I was trying to relate it to a progressive issue that might make sense. After looking at it, I understand the percieved implication, although it was unintended.
Comment by CaptainMantastic — December 27, 2007 @ 12:47 am
All abuse of power/knowledge/force can be perverted , when it is put into the wrong hands.
I simply do not understand those who are so supposedly concerned about a “slippery slope” not being able to notice and admit that the current retard in the Oval Office , along with his entire garbage administration , are a “slippery slope” of mythic proportions……
December 27th, 2007 at 12:53 amBut you support Bush which means you support the illegal invasion of a sovereign nation with what intent exactly?
Comment by Shayne — December 27, 2007 @ 12:41 am
I lament every innocent Japanese killed during WWII, but I don’t regret that we went to war with Japan in the belief that was what was required to defend our country from further attack.
Comment by CaptainMantastic — December 27, 2007 @ 12:52 am
We didn’t invade Panama after Pearl Harbor ; when did Iraq attack us ?
December 27th, 2007 at 12:55 amBut you support Bush which means you support the illegal invasion of a sovereign nation with what intent exactly?
Comment by Shayne — December 27, 2007 @ 12:41 am
I lament every innocent Japanese killed during WWII, but I don’t regret that we went to war with Japan in the belief that was what was required to defend our country from further attack.
Comment by CaptainMantastic — December 27, 2007 @ 12:52 am
The Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor. What did the Iraqis do?
December 27th, 2007 at 12:55 amYou anti abortion people are just that. Being pro life has nothing to do with it. Now you make Jamie Lynn Spears a good girl because she is choosing to keep her baby instead of having an abortion. And while I’m definitely not advocating her having an abortion I don’t think we should be patting her on the back for being a great kid because she got pregnant at age 16. You people advocate abstinence only programs for sex ed which have caused a surge in teen pregnancies and you are against abortion under any circumstances. So Jamie Lynn is a hero for having her baby and well she can afford the expenses so that’s fine with you people. But oh the wailing you’ll do when all these teen pregnancies cause the mothers and children to be on welfare or at least S chip health care. For the record, we don’t want to hear it.
December 27th, 2007 at 1:01 amBut you support Bush which means you support the illegal invasion of a sovereign nation with what intent exactly?
Comment by Shayne — December 27, 2007 @ 12:41 am
I lament every innocent Japanese killed during WWII, but I don’t regret that we went to war with Japan in the belief that was what was required to defend our country from further attack.
Comment by CaptainMantastic — December 27, 2007 @ 12:52 am
December 27th, 2007 at 1:07 amAre you drunk ?
Insane ?
You claim to lament over those that were on the side of the aggressors in a war of aggression that involved almost the entire planet ; yet you support an illegal and immoral invasion and occupation because you believe it is “required” to prevent further attacks against us ?
If you owned a cattle farm/ranch in the Old West , would you teach all predators a lesson by killing an owl ?
I can’t believe how ignorant and stupid you Cancervative fools are……..
If you want I’ll pull the quote, but Lincoln said right before the 1864 that in all probability, he would not be re-elected. Most people (today) think of Lincoln as our greatest president. At the end of his first term, he must have been unpopular enough to question his re-election.
George Bush may be the horrible president that you think he is. But, please keep in mind that popularity doesn’t necessarily equate to job performance.
Comment by CaptainMantastic — December 27, 2007 @ 1:03 am
December 27th, 2007 at 1:11 amBelieve me , I never have nor ever will.
Another example for everyone : the presidency of Ronnie Retard.
He’s still popular in some circles , but based upon his performance , he was pretty terrible.
BTW
Please stop with silly comparisons of our former great presidents to Chimpy ; that is not only galactically stupid , but also totally vile and unconscionable……
Comment by CaptainMantastic — December 27, 2007 @ 1:07 am
And the reason I don’t support Hillary is because she was dumb enough to fall for the lies on the lead up to Iraq that Bushco was feeding her. In my mind that makes her a poor choice to be the Democratic candidate. And you still haven’t figure out that the war was based on lies spoon fed by the administration.
December 27th, 2007 at 1:14 amIs the Iraq war justify just because you have a video showing Hillary defending her vote in the Senate?
Anytime someone questions the reason for going to war, apparently all a war supporter has to say is “Well, Hillary voted for it”, and that for some reason is supposed to end all debate about Iraq.
“I lament every innocent Japanese killed during WWII, but I don’t regret that we went to war with Japan in the belief that was what was required to defend our country from further attack.”
So it’s okay to accept the death of innocent civilians during wartime, but the destruction of embryos to help find cures for numerous medical ailments is appalling?
December 27th, 2007 at 1:23 amAnd I believe that life begins at conception.
Comment by CaptainMantastic — December 27, 2007 @ 1:18 am
You are free to believe whatever you want. So don’t have an abortion.
December 27th, 2007 at 1:26 amAnd I believe that life begins at conception.
Comment by CaptainMantastic — December 27, 2007 @ 1:18 am
You are free to believe whatever you want. So don’t have an abortion.
Comment by jb — December 27, 2007 @ 1:26 am
December 27th, 2007 at 1:29 amOr run for any elected office……..
Or vote…….
Maybe conservatives will be in favor of stem cell research if they are told those embryos might, one day, grow up to be America-hating terrorists and/or suicide bombers.
Why, they might even ask those embryos be tortured for good measure.
/sarcasm off
December 27th, 2007 at 1:30 amMaybe conservatives will be in favor of stem cell research if they are told those embryos might, one day, grow up to be America-hating terrorists and/or suicide bombers.
Why, they might even ask those embryos be tortured for good measure.
/sarcasm off
Comment by Gregor Samsa
Or people living in the 9th Ward in NOLA.
December 27th, 2007 at 1:31 amComment by RickS — December 27, 2007 @ 1:31 am
Or, in general, anyone too dark, too poor, not European-looking, and speaking English with a funny accent.
I mean, reichwingers don’t really t care for anyone fitting that description after they’re born. I’d be surprised if they cared for them before they were born.
Unless they can be used for a photo-op during an election year, of course.
December 27th, 2007 at 1:36 amComment by good_golly — December 27, 2007 @ 1:36 am
Sarcasm is used effectively if you have a cursory knowledge of the topic at hand and a high school-level command of the English language -neither of which you seem to have.
An embryo is not a baby.
December 27th, 2007 at 1:42 amIf partial birth abortion is o.k., and experimenting on embryos is o.k., then why not complete the birth process by a moment more and experiment on the baby? Nobody wants it anyway. (sarc)
Comment by good_golly — December 27, 2007 @ 1:36 am
Are you a child? Nobody advocates partial birth abortion. But virtually all partial birth abortions are done in cases where the fetus is so malformed that it will never be able to survive. But I suppose you’re also against surgery done to the fetus to save it’s life otherwise it will die before it comes to term. Because the first surgeries of this type done were EXPERIMENTATION on the fetus to help it survive.
December 27th, 2007 at 1:46 amComment by good_golly — December 27, 2007 @ 1:48 am
A fetus becomes a baby after its birth.
And I don’t “claim” it. It’s always been medically defined that way.
You don’t even know the difference between an embryo and a fetus, do you?
December 27th, 2007 at 1:53 amComment by good_golly — December 27, 2007 @ 1:36 am
i’m glad you feel that way gg. when the cures come conservatives will listen to the voice of their consciences, refuse them and thereby become naturally selected for extinction. the end of conservatism as we know it. isn’t nature beautiful?
December 27th, 2007 at 1:54 amComment by CaptainMantastic — December 27, 2007 @ 1:51 am
chuck do you ever read back to yourself the stuff you write?
(just curious)
December 27th, 2007 at 1:56 amRecent Dubya
December 27th, 2007 at 1:57 amSo if Iraq goes south in the next year, we can all blame Hillary?
December 27th, 2007 at 1:59 amJoe, isn’t that like saying that liberals will abort themselves into extinction?
Comment by good_golly — December 27, 2007 @ 1:56 am
no because the concept of liberal or conservative isn’t the genetic code. a conservative will refuse a cure for cancer (for example) derived from stem cell research as a matter or conservative ethic. or he will embrace liberalism and live. the remaining conservatives will be “filtered” out of human society via higher mortality rates. very few people will embrace conservatism if it means a shorter life span. conservatism (as we know it) will become extinct.
December 27th, 2007 at 2:03 amComment by good_golly — December 27, 2007 @ 2:00 am
And who gave you the right to impose your decision on the parents?
Also, abortion is not done simply for “convenience” as you so simplemindedly put it. You are also seemingly unaware of the need to end a pregnancy to save the life of the woman.
December 27th, 2007 at 2:05 amSo up until the moment of birth, it is o.k. to kill the “fetus†for the convenience of the parents, in your view? or are there limits to the “right to kill�
Why draw the line at the moment of birth, and not the point of viability? or sooner? at the moment of conception perhaps?
Comment by good_golly — December 27, 2007 @ 2:00
Nobody does this moron. Partial birth abortions are reserved for fetuses that are deformed and will die at birth or shortly thereafter. Where do you people get these pinhead arguments you make.
December 27th, 2007 at 2:06 amBesides if you conservatives are so against abortions of any kind then why do you complain when poor women have babies and then need public assistance. Why don’t you promise to provide for the needs of all children who are born to mothers who can’t afford them.
December 27th, 2007 at 2:08 amAnd who gave you the right to impose your decision on the murdered babies?
Comment by good_golly — December 27, 2007 @ 2:08 am
Babies being murdered is illegal. Fetuses being aborted is not. Maybe that will help you nitwits understand the difference but I doubt it.
December 27th, 2007 at 2:10 amComment by good_golly — December 27, 2007 @ 2:08 am
Are you following the argument? Do you have a short attention span problem? It’s not me deciding. It’s the parents. Aborting or not is their decision. As a matter of fact, it’s the woman’s decision.
December 27th, 2007 at 2:10 amfor shame.
are you saying stem cell research is nazi experimentation?
pretzel logic like that will become extinct on it’s own and rightfully so.
December 27th, 2007 at 2:11 amHillary, Hillary, Hillary you trolls are so freakin’ stupid you think we all give a shit what Hillary said about the war. The reason we don’t like her is because she has never admitted that she made a mistake in supporting the war. You people are truly clueless.
December 27th, 2007 at 2:12 amComment by good_golly — December 27, 2007 @ 2:11 am
conservatives protect embryos but neglect children. it doesn’t make sense but there it is.
December 27th, 2007 at 2:15 amWhere do you people get these pinhead arguments you make.
Comment by Shayne — December 27, 2007 @ 2:06 am
Rush? Sean? Matt? Michael? And other assorted Reich-wing commentators.
December 27th, 2007 at 2:16 amComment by good_golly — December 27, 2007 @ 2:13 am
Unlike you, writing coherent sentences implies little or no work for me.
So, I write what I mean and I mean what I type. Don’t try to “translate” what I wrote.
As I already said, you are completely unaware of the need to end a pregnancy to save the life of the woman. Or to end a pregnancy product of a rape. Such scenarios don’t fit in your tiny, deluded, self-righteous mind.
December 27th, 2007 at 2:16 amNo Joe, that is not what I am saying. You are really having a hard time keeping up, aren’t you?
Comment by good_golly — December 27, 2007 @ 2:14 am
gg, if you’re going to rude about it you’ve all ready lost. science is truth, no bigotry, no prejudice just honest inquiry. stamping your feet, holding your breath or putting hands over your ears won’t change the laws of gravity.
December 27th, 2007 at 2:18 am“If things go well in Iraq in the next year, will Hillary remind us that she was for the war before she was against it?”
Most likely, she’s pretty much an opportunist. And I’m not a big fan of hers, so I feel no obligation to defend her or justify her actions.
“Perhaps “mothers who can’t afford them†should consider that before getting pregnant, rather than using abortion as a selfish tool of convenience.”
So punish the child for the actions of their mother?
December 27th, 2007 at 2:18 amgood_golly are you really that ignorant that you believe any woman has an abortion because of “selfish convenience”? You’ve obviously never created a fetus and had feeling about giving birth or you would know that no decisions of this nature are every made easily and for petty selfish convenience. You people are really pathetically ignorant and for the good of the gene pool should consider abstinence only so you don’t taint the intelligence level of human beings.
December 27th, 2007 at 2:18 amDo I need to dumb it down for you a little? I’m serious, I’ll try.
Comment by CaptainMantastic — December 27, 2007 @ 2:17 am
chuck, i can’t help you unless you want to be helped.
December 27th, 2007 at 2:18 am177. Liberals claim to care about children but kill them by the millions. It doesn’t make sense, but there it is.
Comment by good_golly — December 27, 2007 @ 2:16 am
It does when you believe that a fetus is not a child……..Your insistence that it is , doesn’t make it correct.
December 27th, 2007 at 2:18 amOnly liberals have abortions? LMAO!
December 27th, 2007 at 2:19 amchuck do you ever read back to yourself the stuff you write?
(just curious)
Comment by joe cantwell — December 27, 2007 @ 1:56 am
Do I need to dumb it down for you a little? I’m serious, I’ll try.
Comment by CaptainMantastic — December 27, 2007 @ 2:17 am
Even more than your typical post ?
Is that actually possible ?
December 27th, 2007 at 2:19 amComment by Shayne — December 27, 2007 @ 2:18 am
shayne, from an earlier post gg replied in a comment that he is a man. fyi.
December 27th, 2007 at 2:20 amComment by good_golly — December 27, 2007 @ 2:19 am
I believe Shayne understand those nuances better than you understand the clear differences between an embryo, a fetus, and baby.
December 27th, 2007 at 2:21 amPerhaps “mothers who can’t afford them†should consider that before getting pregnant, rather than using abortion as a selfish tool of convenience.
Comment by good_golly — December 27, 2007 @ 2:11 am
I suppose you’ve never heard of anybody getting pregnant while using birth control. And just because you are unable to find a sex partner normal people can. You don’t want any abortions than you self centered egomaniacal bastards will have to start providing day care, health care and financial benefits to women unable to provide for children. Because you will never be able to stop people from having sex unless they are as pathetic as you are.
December 27th, 2007 at 2:21 amShayne: Wouldn’t you agree that not everything that is legal is right? Do you understand the difference?
Comment by good_golly — December 27, 2007 @ 2:19
Do you understand that when something is legal according to the laws of this country it is not up to you to decide it is wrong. And when something is illegal in this country, like water boarding, it is alsop not ok for you idiots to decide is is right.
December 27th, 2007 at 2:23 amBabies being murdered is illegal. Fetuses being aborted is not. Maybe that will help you nitwits understand the difference but I doubt it.
Comment by Shayne — December 27, 2007 @ 2:10 am
____________________________
Shayne: Wouldn’t you agree that not everything that is legal is right? Do you understand the difference?
Comment by good_golly — December 27, 2007 @ 2:19 am
December 27th, 2007 at 2:23 amI do.
Just because you believe abortion to be ‘wrong’ , doesn’t mean you’re ‘right’……
Perhaps “mothers who can’t afford them†should consider that before getting pregnant, rather than using abortion as a selfish tool of convenience.
Comment by good_golly — December 27, 2007 @ 2:11 am
And here you have what is really at the heart of this nitwit’s opposition to abortion: The aim is to punish the woman’s “irresponsibility”.
He will also have no qualms about punishing the children after they are born by not supporting (let alone providing) affordable child care, or health care for the mothers.
December 27th, 2007 at 2:25 amOnly liberals have abortions? LMAO!
Comment by pete — December 27, 2007 @ 2:19 am
Didn’t President Bush pay for an abortion for an old girlfriend. Was he a liberal back then?http://www.realchange.org/bushjr.htm
December 27th, 2007 at 2:26 amMC: Your blind denial that an unborn child is not a child, doesn’t make it correct.
Comment by good_golly — December 27, 2007 @ 2:21 am
Recommend (0) | Report Abuse
in earlier comment you claimed that it was a liberal too. gg, think logically, does anything you’ve written make any sense to you when you really consider it? (from both a prototypically point of view as well as impartial empiricism.) and if so, why?
December 27th, 2007 at 2:27 amIt does when you believe that a fetus is not a child……..Your insistence that it is , doesn’t make it correct.
Comment by MCMetal — December 27, 2007 @ 2:18 am
___________________
MC: Your blind denial that an unborn child is not a child, doesn’t make it correct.
Comment by good_golly — December 27, 2007 @ 2:21 am
December 27th, 2007 at 2:27 amThe US Supreme Court believes I am and that you are not ; as do the majority of Americans.
Go purchase an island and bring along your religious or morally righteous brethren and start your own country if you don’t like it.
This country has been in decline since the ‘religious right’ gained influence ; anyone claiming otherwise is either delusional and/or full of shit…….
Gregor: I understand what you claim to be the differences between an embryo, a fetus and a baby. I just don’t accept your artificial distinctions, e.g. your contention that a fetus becomes a baby at the moment of birth and not a moment earlier, and can thus be killed at the choice of “the woman†for convenience or otherwise up to the moment of birth.
Comment by good_golly — December 27, 2007 @ 2:24 am
December 27th, 2007 at 2:28 amScientific studies are “artificial distinctions” to you ?
Nice to know that Jesus posts here………
Comment by good_golly — December 27, 2007 @ 2:24 am
As I told you before, it’s not my claim and it’s not “artificial”: There are clear developmental differences between all three stages. And the definition is a scientific/medical one, not invented by me.
I already provided you a link with more information. Do you also want me to read it for you?
December 27th, 2007 at 2:28 amMC: Your blind denial that an unborn child is not a child, doesn’t make it correct.
Comment by good_golly — December 27, 2007 @ 2:21 am
Perhaps you’d like the government to start paying for funerals for women like myself who have miscarriages at 20 weeks because after all that was a baby and not a fetus that was miscarried. But I suppose you believe that all miscarriages are actually abortions because your small mind can’t fathom that nature kills off a certain amount of fetuses.
December 27th, 2007 at 2:29 amWhy did good golly put the word woman, under these signs ” “?
I find very funny that “men” makes an opinion of something they will never get to live, personally.
December 27th, 2007 at 2:30 amComment by good_golly — December 27, 2007 @ 2:28 am
Which is tantamount to punishing the parents for making “bad decisions. What constitutes a bad decision is conveniently defined by the likes of you, of course.
December 27th, 2007 at 2:30 amNo Gregor. The point is that we do not have the right to “terminate†unborn babies simply because their parents may have made a bad decision.
Comment by good_golly — December 27, 2007 @ 2:28 am
Only a true loser would believe that having consenting sex between adult is a bad decision. Nobody terminates unborn babies that would be illegal. They terminate pregnancies in the early stages just like nature terminates 1/3 of all pregnancies before the fetus is viable.
December 27th, 2007 at 2:31 am197. No Gregor. The point is that we do not have the right to murder unborn babies simply because their parents may have made a bad decision.
Comment by good_golly — December 27, 2007 @ 2:27 am
December 27th, 2007 at 2:31 amYou’re wrong ; we do have that right.
And they’re still only “babies” to you , not to everyone……..
BTW, 3900.
December 27th, 2007 at 2:32 amThe other is murder.
Comment by good_golly
So stop jacking off, murderer.
December 27th, 2007 at 2:33 amWhy did good golly put the word woman, under these signs †“?
I find very funny that “men†makes an opinion of something they will never get to live, personally.
Comment by Juan C. — December 27, 2007 @ 2:30 am
December 27th, 2007 at 2:34 amMy “opinion” on the whole matter is that it is the woman’s right to choose………
Comment by good_golly — December 27, 2007 @ 2:31 am
What a twit.
A miscarriage is an abortion that happened naturally, and/or spontaneously.
good_golly is obviously too young to know.
December 27th, 2007 at 2:34 amAt what point does the fetus become a child?
Comment by CaptainMantastic — December 27, 2007 @ 2:34 am
At birth. It’s always been medically defined that way.
You are asking a question that has been answered a million times before. Including in this very thread.
ssheeeshh….
December 27th, 2007 at 2:35 am“It does when you believe that a fetus is not a