“In the middle ages, the Inquisition called waterboarding “toca” and used it with great success.”

why ‘great success’? indeed, from the Inquisition’s point of view it was a success. consider that the aim of torture is never to get ‘actionable intelligence’ or other valuable information.
its only aim is to elicit false confessions. this is precisely what the Bushco torturers use it for as well. they’re getting embarrassed by one terrorism trial after another falling apart with no convictions. so being able to use false confessions in the kangaroo trials courtesy of the military commission is naturally a great relief – it will make for at least a few convictions.

one of the guys whom they tortured for months – the very guy whose torture tapes were shredded – sent the entire ‘homeland security’ bureaucracy (what a Nazi-esque term!) into a dizzy several times, which produced all those color coded alerts. he told them just about anything he thought they might want to hear just to make them stop. the only problem was, none of it was true.
and so it goes – America has lost her liberties (you have not even habeas corpus anymore after all!), has become synonymous with torture, and the ’security’ allegedly bought by this state of affairs is nothing but a complete illusion.
if the intelligence apparatus couldn’t stop 19 hijackers with $40 billion/year, it can’t with $120 billion plus torture either. all that has happened is: freedom gone, soul lost.

now a word to you ‘progressives’: while it was Bush who has visited these monstrosities on the US, i have not seen your democratic Congress lift even a tiny finger to change any of it. if you seriously think the democratic establishment will rescind a single of the newly acquired absolutist presidential powers or change even a sliver of the neo-fascist legislation that has been enacted, you’re living in dreamland. they all signed on the dotted line, and will keep doing so.

Maybe it is time to attack the monied interests and to unseat them from power.

Comment by JMOHR — December 29, 2007 @ 5:28 pm

Last time that happened in earnest was the French Revolution, I think.

Has the success of the MSM in promoting the Bush/Cheney agenda actually protected us from a presidential determination that a national state of emergency exists, thereby triggering the implementation of martial law in this country?

Any thoughts as to the likelihood of this occurring if the Bush/Cheney cabal was confronted with a serious threat to its continued existence?

Unless a member of congress resides in a district where the vote is routinely at least 75% for Democrats, they risk angering their large corporate benefactors (who are completely behind the Bush/Cheney agenda), who will then completely withdraw all financial support, redirecting it toward any Republican who runs against this soon-to-be former Congressperson. And the MSM, which serves as the designated megaphone for this cabal will ensure that their message saturates the homes of everyone who is sufficiently naive to depend upon the corporate media for their worldview.

Impeachment will never occur in this country without the express permission of Big Money. Perhaps at a time when the government belonged to the people, this could have occurred. But not now.

Many of the sheep in this country have surrendered their destinies to the care of large corporations, whose only responsibility is to maximize profits for their shareholders, without any regard whatsoever to the “collateral damage” that this might entail. At present, sufficient numbers in Congress are owned by Big Money to ensure that no dissenting voice(s) will rise to the level that any worthwhile change will occur.

Any meaningful reform would require a major sea change with regard to public opinion (which is managed by the corporate cabal as well), followed by sustained action, the likes of which would be unprecedented in this nation’s history.

The media includes numerous polls reflecting dissatisfaction by the majority of the public with performance of the legislative and executive branches of the federal government. An honest polling of the largest corporate campaign contributors’ satisfaction with the status quo would most certainly produce a radically different result.

Sadly, the road back is extremely treacherous, and achieving the desired result would require the undaunted courage, determination and sacrifice of many.

Is our country there yet? The evidence to date would not seem to support an affirmative answer.

Should progressives surrender and become silent? The answer is a resounding NO. However, one should make no mistake about the incredible difficulty that such an endeavor entails

Will Americans ever wake up and realize what kind of monster they have created by voting for this abominable creature and his entourage of psychopaths to get another four years at destroying everything the US ever stood for?

[b]Conyers does NOT care about Wexler’s Petition to start Cheney impeachment hearings![/b]

Read the transcript from Democracy Now.

http://willyloman.wordpress.com/2007/12/22/from-democracy-now-interview-with-conyers-he-doesnt-care-about-wexlers-petition/

He will NOT allow impeachment hearings to take place.

Conyers knows that Pelosi will undercut the efforts of impeachment rather than helping to build a bi-partisan coalition to impeach.

Conyers knows that Pelosi will again be Speaker of the House next year and she will take him off the Judiciary Committee if he goes against her wishes. It’s a “lose-lose” for him and impeachment.

Let’s help him and the rest of the members of the House of Representatives by removing an obstructionist Speaker. It can be done and must be done to start the impeachment process.

http://www.petitiononline.com/everyman/petition.html

To Replace Nancy Pelosi as Speaker of the House of Representatives for the Purposes of Pursuing Impeachment

To: U.S. House of Representatives

Online Petition to Remove Pelosi as Speaker of the House of Representatives

by Scott Creighton

In the event of a rogue presidency, the founders of our great nation provided for protections for us, the citizens, under the constitution in the form of a process called impeachment.

Though rarely spoken, the word itself holds great power in that it binds the president and his entire administration to the laws of the nation and makes them all accountable to the people.

2053 Signatures Total

This administration has committed treason, and therefore must be held accountable for it. Period.

For those wishing to learn more about the planned coup in the early 1930s, you can check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot — if Smedley Butler had been a less honorable man, the history of this country could have taken a radically different course, although the Bushies would have enjoyed a prominent role under either scenario.

Durining the Great Depression, certain of the elite, wealthy class (including the senior Bush) had approached FDR to encourage him to install (for lack of better word) fascist government. The US would have become such under the current leadership even before Germany started a war. The communists, socialists and anarchists would have been touted as the threat. The actions of unions and the throngs of unemployed and hungary would have been blamed as unworthy, lazy parasites that constituted an internal threat to the country.

We would have seen the US going after the remaining French and British colonial possessions. Russia would have been a threat but also a valuable offsetting weight against Hitler’s Germany.

I would suspect that we would have assimilated Britan and France and then started an aggressive campaign against Germany for world domination. The people would have been brainwashed to accept this given the communist, socialist and anarchist threat. They would further bought into it as some economic benefits started to flow in from British and French colonies.

Just a guess.

It is, in my opinion, just as likely, if not more so, that 9/11 was pulled off by a faction within our own government.

Both possibiliites are theories. Both involve conspiracies.

The Truth requires an investigation. The Bush Administration has refused to conduct an investigation.

Ask yourself, Why? and then search the internet.

Recall that Prescott Bush (W’s granddaddy) was a shareholder and director of a company that continued to trade with the Nazis in the 1940s (i.e., United Banking Corporation), even AFTER the United States had declared war on Germany.

Let’s see, the Allies included the Soviet Union (whose official position on religion was that of atheism), as opposed to the Axis powers, which included Germany (who claimed to be on a mission from God). As Hitler stated in a radio address to the nation on January 30, 1945, “…God the Almighty has made our nation. By defending its existence we are defending His work….”

Also recall that the United States remained “neutral” for quite some time after hostilities began in the late 1930s, only entering the war in a meaningful way in 1942.

If Bush, Cheney and their buddies were in charge today, would the United States have fought on the side of the Axis powers or the Allies?

1. People confuse feeling secure with security. The two are simply not the same. One can destroy a nations military by failing to distinguish between the two. During WWII the Japanese homeland was attacked by a small group of 16 B-25 bombers flown off the USS Hornet. They attacked the Japenese homeland with very little damage. However, it was the psychological fear created within the Japanese government and its desire to make the people at home feel secure that severly damaged the Japenese military position.

a. The Japanese military withdrew front line forces to increase homeland security.

b. The Japanese decided to end the possibility of further attacks by finding and destroying the enemy carrier forces. This led to the Battle of Midway and the end of the Japanese carrier force as an offensive force.

There is little doubt that the Japanese would have posed a far greater threat to the allies had they not over reacted to the Doolittle Raid. The Japenese had carrier supremacy and would well have continued that superiority for a considerable time while the US built up its forces.

The US has had the same reaction that harmed the Japanese after the Doolittle Raid. It over reacted, expended scarce military resources on an unnecessary and undproductive war (Iraq and not Afghanistan) as well as squandered precious international standing and national treasure.

2. Are we more secure? Frankly, I feel a lot less secure than I did in the days immediately after 9/11. The shift from Afghanistan to Iraq caused a dramatic down turn in support for the US. This has translated into a radicalized middle east that supports AQ, breeds more terrorists and ties down our military fighting an insurgency in a country that had not been a problem to US security. Indeed, Iraq has been a valuable training ground as we see Iraqi insurgency tactics now used against allied forces in Afghanistan. Indeed, we have created the training ground for thousands of would be terrorists to come after the US. There was never a serious threat to US interests in the Middle East after 9/11 until we invaded Iraq. The US played into Bin Laden’s hands by spreading the war and by adopting tactics that were repugnant to all civilized people of the world.

3. Where was the threat? I am sorry, but to hear the cowards supporting the “security” state, one would believed that threats abounded around every corner threatening the very existence of the United States. However, in the immediate aftermath of 9/11, no follow up attacks took place. No sleeper cells were or have been discovered. The few show trials that have taken place involved very low levels of terrorist wannabe’s. The fact is that AQ finally pulled off a reasonable attack. The US reacted and was supported by the entire world. The job against AQ should have been finished with Bin Laden brought to justice. The Middle East supported this objective, the Iranians were in the street supporting the US against AQ. Instead, we pulled out from the legitimate objective, allowed Bin Laden to show that even his rag tag group could evade destruction of the US and gave him time to turn AQ into a decentralized franchise operation.

I fear for the furture of the US. We need to understand that 9/11 was not the beginning of a third or fourth world war. It was a successful albeit lucky attack by a small radical group. It would have been no more had AQ been decisively destroyed and other political/military fantasies been put aside to protect the real objectives of US security. Now we have created the monster that was before only a dream.

By the year 2020, the United States has fallen into bankruptcy. Other countries in the world are no longer willing to try to save a “sinking ship.” The members of OPEC, who hold most of the remaining, albeit dwindling oil reserves, are unwilling to trade with the United States, which has little of value to exchange. The extended families of Bush, Cheney, and their compatriots continue to enjoy lives of relative luxury on South American estates formerly inhabited by Nazis fleeing justice (Paraguay, perhaps?).

OPEC members, bitterly recalling brutal treatment earlier in the century by the United States, in exchange for a minimal amount of oil to maintain vital functions in this country demand that the United States turn over the members of its military, CIA, and private contractors who participated in torture of so-called terrorist suspects. Panicked by a state of sheer desperation, the United States complies.

A modern-day equivalent of the Nuremberg trials is held in one of the Middle Eastern countries, where those on trial contend that they were merely following orders. Citing the oath that members of the military took to obey the Constitution, not their commander-in-chief, the judges condemn most of the accused to death (by whatever means is in style at the time).

Despite the almost unprecedented advantages enjoyed by the United States in preceding centuries (free land, taken from the Native American inhabitants; almost free labor, provided by kidnapped slaves from Africa and horribly exploited immigrants in sweat shop conditions; and remaining relatively unscathed by the horrible destruction of two World Wars, the United States has self-destructed itself into obscurity, not unlike the formerly feared tyrannical family patriarch, who, crippled with the infirmities of advancing age, can only rant and rave from the confines of a wheelchair, while circling the dayroom in a nursing home.

Think it couldn’t happen here?

I have hopes! Excellet comment!
PS.Frank M is talking about “our children”… I thought he was still trying to get the ‘girls’ with his mustang…

:P

Comment by BARTLEBEE

I lough loudly with this comment! Hehehehehe!

Comment by Briseadh na Faire — December 29, 2007 @ 11:00 am

same difference. brainless as a dolly.