Kristol: The New York Times ‘Should Be Prosecuted,’ ‘It Isn’t A First-Rate Newspaper’
Kristol: The New York Times ‘Should Be Prosecuted,’ ‘It Isn’t A First-Rate Newspaper’
For years, Bill Kristol has been at the forefront of a vitriolic right-wing crusade against the New York Times. Sadly, the Times has chosen to reward him for it.
After the New York Times in 2006 disclosed a secret Bush administration program to monitor international banking transactions, right-wing pundit Bill Kristol said this:
“I think it is an open question whether the Times itself should be prosecuted for this totally gratuitous revealing of an ongoing secret classified program that is part of the war on terror.” [Fox News, 7/2/06]
“I think the Justice Department has an obligation to consider prosecution.” [Fox News, 6/25/06]
Beyond calling for the criminal prosecution of his future employer, Kristol has also pilloried the newspaper as the voice of the radical fringe in America:
“It’s no accident that The New York Times has to have a special reporter assigned to the conservative beat. They cover it sort of like a foreign country, to explain to the editors and the readers of The New York Times what’s going on in that strange world of conservative America, which is two-fifths of the country.” [Fox News, 5/30/04]
“I’m not sure, if you’re against a war in Iraq, that you want The New York Times carrying your cause,” Mr. Kristol said. “Because it’s like, ‘Oh, great! The Upper West Side doesn’t want a war!’” [NY Observer, 9/15/02]
“Colin Powell is not a New York Times liberal, you know. Colin Powell is for a strong, assertive American foreign policy.” [Fox News, 7/28/02]
In one of Kristol’s most candid assessments about the New York Times, he wrote this in a 2003 Weekly Standard piece:
Still, the simple truth is that a great democracy like ours deserves a first-rate newspaper of record. And the New York Times isn’t it. […]
Fundamental regime change at the New York Times is not in the cards. Inspections and sanctions won’t work. Even the French can’t help. The Times is irredeemable. The question is whether a new newspaper of record will replace it.
Kristol seems to understate his abilities to bring about regime changes.
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What a disgrace that people like Kristol thrive and are rewarded (by NYTimes for chrissakes).
December 29th, 2007 at 11:47 amKristol wrote this one month after the Iraq invasion began:
“Fundamental regime change at the New York Times is not in the cards. Inspections and sanctions won’t work. Even the French can’t help. The Times is irredeemable. The question is whether a new newspaper of record will replace it.”
He isn’t saying they should be prosecuted so much as invaded and a new, conservative-friendly editorial board installed.
December 29th, 2007 at 11:48 amKristol seems to underestimate his abilities to bring about regime changes.
damn… could it be?…
good post, faiz…
December 29th, 2007 at 11:49 amWorking for the enemy…….we knew that was his MO all the time.
December 29th, 2007 at 11:52 amAnd he finds the editorial page a perfect location for sniping at NYT reporters and editors, sort of like a canned hunt: they can’t run, and they can’t hide.
December 29th, 2007 at 11:53 amWhy on earth would the NYT sully themselves with this neocon pundit whose been absolutely wrong about every pundicious prediction he’s made in the last five years?
December 29th, 2007 at 11:54 amDoes the Bush administration have something on the Times? Some eavesdropping little tidbit? Just curious…
I will certainly cancel my NY Times subscription if this is true.
December 29th, 2007 at 11:58 am“Colin Powell is not a New York Times liberal, you know. Colin Powell is for a strong, assertive American foreign policy.†[Fox News, 7/28/02]
And where’s he at now? Disgraced for his UN appearance, he’s been laying low for quite some time. The media hasn’t talked about his presidential ambitions for years now; it used to be their favorite topic of discussion.
December 29th, 2007 at 11:59 amKristol is a literary insurgent soldier for freedom, America, and Gefilte Fish pie. He is a true soldier fighting in enemy territory single handedly and with each precision stroke of his keypad is destroying the treasonous NY Times. POW! BANG! KABOOM!
/Snark off
This is Kristol’s self talk as he reaches for a kleenex to clean up.
December 29th, 2007 at 12:00 pm“a respected academic”
Comedy gold - or perhaps platinum…
December 29th, 2007 at 12:01 pmWhy? As I said earlier, it’s because he’s a well connected beltway insider, a respected academic and he attracts readers of all political affiliations.
Comment by Frank M — December 29, 2007 @ 11:57 am
The reich wing should be pissed at Kristol for “sleeping with the enemy”. But then again, it’s all about the $$$$$$$, isn’t it?
December 29th, 2007 at 12:05 pmA picture is worth a thousand words.
December 29th, 2007 at 12:05 pmAnd the NYT hired this fool.
The NYT is not a liberal paper. It this paper really cared about the safety of Americans, it would have published the NSA spying information before the 2004 elections. Instead, this paper waited until after the last presidential election. The NYT only pretends to lean left. They throw a dog biscuit to the readers occasionally.
December 29th, 2007 at 12:07 pmI applaud the Times in its continuing effort to demonstrate the diversity of opinion that feeds the debate of the great issues of our day, but to do so with one so horribly, objectively and irredeemably wrong as Kristol does nothing but lessen the sum of knowledge and considered opinion. This man has demonstrated nothing but blind obedience to an imperialist world view that is built upon American hegemony and invasion.
Balancing left-of-center views with right-of-center views is fine, and as I said, laudable, but doing so with one as dangerous as is Kristol’s is unforgivable.
This is a sad, sad day for journalism and the advancing the sum of understanding of human events.
What a shame.
December 29th, 2007 at 12:07 pmDear Billy Kristol: you are jsut a worthless lying corporate prick: just another member of the Bush crime family… Seven years of corporate fascistic rule in America seems to be wearing a bit threadbare these days, huh?
Billy: just go back to your sandbox of insanity and stop bothering the other kids…
December 29th, 2007 at 12:08 pmThis shows how totally shallow Kristol is. For years he made his bones ripping on the Times. All of that must have been BS because he has no problem going to WORK FOR THEM!! This is proof that Kristol doesn’t believe half of what he say’s. It’s all about Bill and all about getting paid, nothing more. Remember this next time you see this ignorant fool on TV.
December 29th, 2007 at 12:10 pmPerhaps if he is paid enough he will become a liberal.
December 29th, 2007 at 12:12 pmOff Topic:
http://www.9news.com/ news/ local/ article.aspx?storyid=83567
Sure. Let’s send our cops over to Iraq. It’s not like we NEED THEM HERE, now is it?
*sigh*
December 29th, 2007 at 12:13 pmSo, NYT; who next? Ben Domenech?
December 29th, 2007 at 12:16 pmOr Jeff Gannon?
December 29th, 2007 at 12:18 pmOh no!
I just mentally-pictured Kristol, Safire, and Bobo in an editorial page three-way.
I have to go get drunk… and I mean now!
December 29th, 2007 at 12:24 pmUnder that premise, shouldn’t Bush sign the SCHIP legislatiion then? To make him look more liberal?
December 29th, 2007 at 12:30 pmUnder that premise, shouldn’t Bush sign the SCHIP legislatiion then? To make him look more liberal?
Comment by evil_framers_of_the_constitution — December 29, 2007 @ 12:30 pm
According to MSNBC, he just did. But without the increase.
December 29th, 2007 at 12:39 pmIf the NYT is considered left leaning by many/most people; doesn’t it make sense to balance the paper with a right leaning conservative for both financial and philosophic reasons?
Except…you know, that only works when the perception matches reality. When that’s nowhere near reality, all it serves to do is push the discourse further right. You know, S.O.P. for the media in general these last few years.
The NY Times disgraces itself by hiring someone not only utterly wrong about EVERYTHING he touches, but one who was adamant about stringing them up on federal charges.
December 29th, 2007 at 12:40 pmOne day I hope a PATRIOTIC US Soldier, possibly one permanently maimed in Iraq for the LIES of MURDERER Bush the COXUCKER punk TRAITOR to the USA
turns Kristol “up” somewhere.
Or maybe a PATRIOTIC agent of the CIA…
Sweet justice…
Sincerely,
NRA Gun Nutes
December 29th, 2007 at 12:41 pmAs I’ve said before, animosity is temporary; residuals are forever.
December 29th, 2007 at 12:46 pmBill Kristol working for the NYT is a step towards a more rational discussion.
Comment by CaptainMantastic
…………..Or at least an improvement of the funny pages.
December 29th, 2007 at 12:52 pmHarbinger of things to come. RIP MSM, hail to the new king: the internet.
December 29th, 2007 at 1:21 pmSad though. The one paper I thought would resist an ass like Kristol was the NYT. As to the fiction of balance- Kristol is a common liar. He has no use for facts if they do not jibe with his opinion. I welcome counterpoint opinion, not lying advocacy. Check the compilation at “crooks and liars” of the bullshit he’s shoveled over the last few years.
“His statement that the times wasn’t a “first rate paper†has become a self fulfilling prophecy.”
Comment by BARTLEBEE
Great one Bartlebee! I couldn’t say it better!!!!
December 29th, 2007 at 1:22 pmOne has to wonder why the NYT is hiring Kristol. He hasn’t been right on any of his predictions as far as Iraq is concerned and he is decidedly right wing. Does the NYT really think that the public views them as being left of center? I don’t. They already push the RNC talking points, so why the need to bring Kristol on.
It’s going to be interesting to see what happens to our MSM when the country has turned decidedly blue.
December 29th, 2007 at 1:29 pmIs it more rational to formulate your positions based on information from people that all share the same opinions?
Comment by CaptainMantastic — December 29, 2007 @ 1:27 pm
Gee, let’s ask Fox “news” (propaganda channel).
Roger Ailes might be able to tell us…
Sincerely,
NRA Gun Nutes
December 29th, 2007 at 1:34 pmI suspect that the times thinks that by hiring Kristol, they will silence his criticisms of the NYT and it will probably work. What they don’t realize is that the only people who are interested in what he has to say is the 24%ers. The rest of us are insulted by his opinion pieces. I’m done with the NYT as a news source.
December 29th, 2007 at 1:34 pmIs it more rational to formulate your positions based on information from people that all share the same opinions?
Comment by CaptainMantastic — December 29, 2007 @ 1:27 pm
No, it is not, that is why I’m not a republican! Most posters here are able to distinguish between serious opinions and the bullcrap that Kristol and trools like you spew out.
December 29th, 2007 at 1:34 pmIs it more rational to formulate your positions based on information from people that all share the same opinions?
Comment by CaptainMantastic
The NYT already has plenty of right wing columnists and they are all more intelligent and well thought of than Kristol. If the NYT wants to appeal strictly to the 24%ers, it’s fine by me. And when they find their share of the market to be 24%, they will be in financial trouble for sure.
December 29th, 2007 at 1:36 pmKristol’s constantly red (literally) face tells me that that clown is drinking too much.
Watch that blood pressure, Bill.
On second thought………..
∞
December 29th, 2007 at 1:36 pmAccording to MSNBC, he just did. But without the increase.
Comment by RUCerious
And how can he do that? He doesn’t have the line-item veto and Congress has not sent him a SCHIP bill without the increase, at least not to my knowledge. What has he done this time?
December 29th, 2007 at 1:39 pmGee, will Fox “news” give a forum to BALANCE the right-wing NUTJOB crap that THEY spout?
Yeah, riiiiight…
Oh, that’s right, since their crap is not even RATIONAL, just PROPAGANDA, we can forget THAT, eh?
Sincerely,
NRA Gun Nutes
December 29th, 2007 at 2:04 pmI believe that I am advocating that from different viewpoints, we can formulate a more rational observation. Is that ‘bullcrap’ to you?
Comment by CaptainMantastic
If you believed that you would watch something other than Faux Noise and you would listen to Air America. I doubt you do either. Your mind is a steel trap and it is firmly shut on anything other than what the RNC feeds you. Nothing you have said on this site is rational nor is it backed up by facts. So, yes, anything you say is bullcrap.
December 29th, 2007 at 2:06 pmWilliam Kristol may be really pissed when he sees his first editorial published on The New York Times cartoon page.
December 29th, 2007 at 2:08 pmBut, if you content with staying in the Garden and not eating the fruit…
Comment by CaptainMantastic
Oh really? I tried to “open my mind” to conservative thought by visiting sites like redstate.com. Funny thing, though. The minute I posted an opinion that differed from theirs, I was banned. Not only banned from posting, but banned from even being able to view their site. So much for conservatives encouraging differing opinions. They are firmly ensconced in their own version of the garden of eden and they will not allow anything in that doesn’t agree with their point of view. At least you are allowed to post here, unfortunately for us.
December 29th, 2007 at 2:08 pmcaption:
“A tewwowist? I tink he went a tataway…..hyuk…hyuk………..”
December 29th, 2007 at 2:19 pmhe’s … a respected academic
Comment by Frank M — December 29, 2007 @ 11:57 am
Frank, listen up: Kristol is not an academic. Not by any stretch of the imagination. He is a propagandist who has zero interest whatsoever in scholarship or any activity related to gaining and understanding knowledge.
December 29th, 2007 at 2:23 pmMy mind is open. Is yours?
Comment by CaptainMantastic — December 29, 2007 @ 2:20 pm
ROTFL? IT IS? Yet we see no EVIDENCE of THIS CLAIM, much like the RAMBLINGS OF KRISTOL! See listening to a KNOWN LIAR just makes you a FOOL, CAPTAIN MORON!!!
December 29th, 2007 at 2:23 pmIf I was with a bunch of conservative friends, that they told me I shouldn’t waste my time on ThinkProgress, because I might be influenced by progressive ideas; I would probably tell them thanks, but I would take my chances anyway.
Comment by CaptainMantastic — December 29, 2007 @ 2:06 pm
See THAT’S how you KNOW you’re on the SIDE OF EVIL. We don’t tell people to not post on redstate, or not read it, we already KNOW if they have HALF A BRAIN they’ll GET what a FASCIST SITE it is. You however PROVE that your FRIENDS KNOW that YOU SHOULDN’T EAT THE FRUIT! And so far YOU HAVEN’T… Dum bass.
December 29th, 2007 at 2:24 pmOr perhaps if they hired Osama Bin Laden to do a weekly editorial that would “strenghten†your “ideas†while he’s “juxtaposing†all over the page?
Comment by BARTLEBEE — December 29, 2007 @ 2:24 pm
ROTFL!!! Very funny! But you do understand that WINGNUTS don’t HAVE A SENSE OF HUMOR and you can’t use SATIRE to teach them how STUPID THEIR POSTS ARE ;) But I admire the effort ;)
December 29th, 2007 at 2:25 pmI also changed my mind about overtaxing our troops and the administrations responsibility to supply adequate replacements. You were there.
My mind is open. Is yours?
Comment by CaptainMantastic — December 29, 2007 @ 2:20 pm
Sounds MORE like and INDICTMENT of how STUPID YOU ARE if it TOOK YOU THAT LONG to KNOW you were WRONG about SUCH OBVIOUS ITEMS!! ROTFL!!! What a FOOL!
December 29th, 2007 at 2:30 pmPerhaps the NYT will let Kristol in, and allow him to post some hideously out of line editorial. As a result, the Times will then fire his fascist a**. Kristol will be humiliated, as damn well he should be.
December 29th, 2007 at 2:31 pmKristol: The New York Times ‘Should Be Prosecuted,’ ‘It Isn’t A First-Rate Newspaper’
Ok, so, uh, Bush and Cheney shouldn’t be prosecuted because they’re first rate leaders???????????????????
December 29th, 2007 at 2:36 pmWhen Kristol inked his deal with the NYT, he unequivocally showed himself as a money-making poser, rather than any serious student of American culture. A man of his own principles would have stayed with his original observation instead of taking up bedfellows with his professed disdain. Yes, Kristol and his ilk are money-making whores first, commentators on current events second. Blather after blather comes from the likes Mr. Kristol - just a rich baby who grew up on third base thinking he’d hit a triple. Kristol is a fool’s fool!
December 29th, 2007 at 2:52 pmcaption:
Word to your mother.
/kristol ice?
December 29th, 2007 at 2:55 pmComment by CaptainMantastic — December 29, 2007 @ 2:43 pm
Have you been banned here?
December 29th, 2007 at 2:59 pmBilbo, I too have been banned from Redstate at least 3 times. Looking back, I suppose I had it coming each time. If you read their guidelines, it’s self explainatory. You should realize that that is their little corner where they amuse themselves and they prefer you not, uh, I think they put it, “track mud” in their home. I think the majority there break out in hives when confronted with reality.
December 29th, 2007 at 3:03 pmI believe that is what led to my banning.
Comment by CaptainMantastic — December 29, 2007 @ 3:06 pm
You are off topic now and briinging mud from another site, basically being confrontational and you have not been banned, whereas if you did that on Redstate you would be.
Therefore, I wont accuse you of having a martyr complex (projecting a false ‘truth’) but I dont think you have a valid argument when you have not been banned here.
December 29th, 2007 at 3:15 pmI believe that I am advocating that from different viewpoints, we can formulate a more rational observation. Is that ‘bullcrap’ to you?
Comment by CaptainMantastic — December 29, 2007 @ 1:48 pm
Yes Cap, I believe your advocating is bullcrap, that is my belief. The words you post here are basically the same as what comes out of a bull’s rear end.
December 29th, 2007 at 3:20 pmcaption contest: “Look at me, Ah am George, I got my smirk on and this here six shooter.”
December 29th, 2007 at 3:29 pmhe ‘intolerant’ treatment he recieved on redstate is there for you to see firsthand. -Mantastic
I’m not interested in becoming a part of your argument. I asked if you were banned and obviously your not. What you ran into was the filter fairy that many people here have had problems with. You weren’t banned.
December 29th, 2007 at 3:36 pmConsider it an opportunity to re-examine your possible solipsism.
Comment by CaptainMantastic — December 29, 2007 @ 3:33 pm
Possible projectionism? Heh.
December 29th, 2007 at 3:44 pmOld GOP trick, ‘if you can’t shut them up, hire them.’
December 29th, 2007 at 3:53 pmOh, I get it…. Kristol is a whore, and the N.Y. Times is a co-dependent.
Cheers,
December 29th, 2007 at 4:09 pm#4 Captain Mantastic:
You may not, and may never, agree with Bill Kristol. Bill Kristol’s ideas may be wrong. But, if the reader’s of the NYT, strive to form their positions on rational thought, it follows that different views be at least considered.
Yep. Just like Sen. Hruska, who defended rejected Nixon Supreme Court nominee Carswell this way:
“So what if he is mediocre? There are a lot of mediocre judges and people and lawyers. They are entitled to a little representation, aren’t they?”
Captain Mastication here takes that a step further. Nowadays, rational people need not only put up with mediocrity, they have to consider even wrong ideas. Talk about “moral relativism”, the RW foamers have gone on to “rational relativism”….
And so falls the empire.
Cheers,
December 29th, 2007 at 4:19 pmWell, David Brooks is about to seem rational and way liberal.
December 29th, 2007 at 4:24 pmThe NYT is going the way of the Washington Post. Soon, there won’t be any national newspaper worth reading. It will all be propaganda.
December 29th, 2007 at 4:42 pmJust like Charlie Krauthammer foists himself off as an intellectual, Kristol tries to make himself sound learned, well schooled, but the tripe that dribbles out of his mouth and pen is clearly neocon horse droppings. Good luck with this point of view helping boost your subscriptions, NYT. If readers need Faux snooze, there’s that channel 48 thing.
December 29th, 2007 at 4:47 pmThe Peter Principle, live and well.
December 29th, 2007 at 5:02 pmneeds to be repeated:
… As to the fiction of balance- Kristol is a common liar. He has no use for facts if they do not jibe with his opinion. I welcome counterpoint opinion, not lying advocacy. …
Comment by moondancer @ 1:21 pm
me too…
December 29th, 2007 at 5:05 pmCan you our any one else here throw me a bone and concede the point?
Comment by CaptainMantastic — December 29, 2007 @ 5:17 pm
Guess you MISSED THE PART where he GOT BANNED for POSTING? ROTFL! You’re a dumb little girl, why don’t you CONCEDE THAT, GIRLFRIEND?
December 29th, 2007 at 5:27 pmI was never profane on the site, but I was guilty one day of being very off topic. I believe that is what led to my banning.
Comment by CaptainMantastic — December 29, 2007 @ 3:06 pm
You mean you DERAILED A THREAD, like you’ve DONE TODAY? ROTFL!!
yeah, that’s what a TROLL DOES, and YOU REPEATEDLY DO, and it’s why you DESERVE to be banned. Not because of your DISSENTING VIEWS, but because your ONLY VIEW IS DISRUPTION AND MAYHEM in VIOLATION of the TERMS OF USE!
December 29th, 2007 at 5:29 pmThe NY Times needs to rescind their offer to Kristol.
December 29th, 2007 at 5:31 pmCan you our any one else here throw me a bone and concede the point?
Comment by CaptainMantastic — December 29, 2007 @ 5:17 pm
I was banned from from redstate; I was banned from another conservative site a few years back; and Free Republic decided to put disclaimer under my comments when I was posting there a few years back.
December 29th, 2007 at 5:33 pmSince when did the edict go out that we all had to reconsider the ideology of the Nazi’s?
Comment by BARTLEBEE — December 29, 2007 @ 4:22 pm
When the Neocons gained power.
December 29th, 2007 at 5:35 pmIf the NYT is considered left leaning by many/most people; doesn’t it make sense to balance the paper with a right leaning conservative for both financial and philosophic reasons?
Comment by CaptainMantastic
The NY Times already has David Brooks and John Tierney and occasionally the semi-retired William Safire (a former speechwriter for Nixon) representing the right-leaning point of view. Please tell me which right-learning journal, such as the “Weekly Standard” or the “National Reivew” or blogs like Redstate, Townhall, etc., has a regular columnist on the left/progressive side to balance their content.
December 29th, 2007 at 6:40 pmIf CaptainMantastic wants a bone he can arrange to meet Larry Craig in Denver or D.C.
I have come to the point where whenever a troll posts off thread or justs posts some really stupid crap I hit the abuse button on every post they make on that thread. I would like to see a system where fellow posters could rate the trool tripe and ban the poster post haste.
December 29th, 2007 at 6:46 pmI would like to see a system where fellow posters could rate the trool tripe and ban the poster post haste.
Comment by Saint Augustine — December 29, 2007 @ 6:46 pm
This would be really kool… Let us see the “Report Abuse” count just like the “Recommend”!!!!
Or an “Ignore” feature with a count too!!!!!!
December 29th, 2007 at 6:52 pmCan you our any one else here throw me a bone and concede the point?
Comment by CaptainMantastic — December 29, 2007 @ 5:17 pm
No, I cant, because I myself had posts deleted by the filter fairy quite a few times even though I was not ‘banned’
December 29th, 2007 at 6:53 pmNo, I cant, because I myself had posts deleted by the filter fairy quite a few times even though I was not ‘banned’
Comment by Xisithrus — December 29, 2007 @ 6:53 pm
And that’s why TP is the BEST, most PROGRESSIVE BLOG SITE ON EARTH!
TP ALWAYS KEEPS AN OPEN MIND!!! Mind you manners here and all is well!!
I LOVE THIS SITE!!!
PS. GO TO HELL TROLLS!!
December 29th, 2007 at 6:57 pmI just dashed off a letter to letters@nytimes.com asking them if perhaps William Kristol is now a “New York Times Liberal”.
There is one thing that the general public have: a voice. All we have to do is to start speaking up and out. Every publication has a way to contact it. Use it.
December 29th, 2007 at 7:02 pmI will certainly cancel my NY Times subscription if this is true.
Comment by meister08
Be sure to let them know!
December 29th, 2007 at 7:04 pmAs a life-long resident of “flyover land”, other than two brief stints in San Diego, I have always considered the NY Times to be rather irrelevant. Politics doesn’t even enter into the discussion. I, frankly, don’t care what East Coast urbanites think. They might as well be a different species.
December 29th, 2007 at 7:20 pmI, frankly, don’t care what East Coast urbanites think. They might as well be a different species.
Comment by pete — December 29, 2007 @ 7:20 pm
Phu(k you too FROM the WEST!!!
December 29th, 2007 at 7:27 pmIf people stop listening to this gerbil he’ll fade away. I don’t care what he thinks about prosecuting the times or whether the info was classified or spurious bullshit about the Time’s revelations damaging the war on terror. There is no war on terror…fighting a concept with conventional armies is bogus to the nth degree. If the Times revealed anything that protects us from this administration, I’m all for it. In the meantime Kristol why don’t you just take some immodium.
December 29th, 2007 at 7:46 pmI have always considered the NY Times to be rather irrelevant.
Comment by pete
Well, ya know Pete, I mean pete, did you ever see/read/read about Cheney and Rice using references to stories in the New York Times as part of the reasoning to go to war with Iraq?
(If not, go here and view the video: Buying the War.)
The New York Times is only “liberal” in terms of that is how wingnuts abuse the term liberal — and Kristol is a wingnut. Whenever the NY Times publishes and article that a wingnut does not like, he or she will cry “Liberal”.
But the NY Times had, at one time, people like Judith Miller. The NY Times failed miserably as a “Liberal Newspaper” up to and for sometime after the “Selling of the War on Iraq” and the subsequent Invasion.
The danger of a Kristol (or any of the many other wingnut “columnists”) writing for the New York Times is precisely because the New York Times is extremely relevant to the political discourse in this country.
Have you never heard a Congressman refer to an article in the New York Times in a speech on the floor of congress? Well, you would have if you ever watched Senate/House sessions on C-SPAN over the years.
People need to stop being involved in petty bickering. (”I was banned more than you!” “No I was!” *yawn*)
Get involved. READ! LISTEN! WATCH! LEARN! Then come back and post something RELEVANT.
December 29th, 2007 at 7:56 pmMy mind is open. Is yours?
Comment by CaptainMantastic — December 29, 2007
(Captain Breeze Between The Ears)
December 29th, 2007 at 8:05 pmComment by mr.frazzlebottom — December 29, 2007 @ 7:56 pm
I think you and dixie blood misunderstood. The NY Times, and the editorial policies thereof, have zero effect on the forming of my opinions. I recognize them as a valuable source of information, without accepting them as a source of values; though I’m fully cognizant of their complicity in the Iraq “war”. They don’t “speak to me” or reflect my opinions. And, my two local papers do. The NY Times could hire “The Great Satan” and it wouldn’t change my opinion.
That being said, I object to Bloody Bill having any forum. He’s profoundly dangerous and offensive as heck. Luckily, I don’t know a single person who would be swayed by his opinions, or the op/ed page of the NY Times. I am quite capable of sifting through real news, which may include stories from the NY Times (Reuters and McClatchy are favorites.) and forming my own opinions.
And, you can take your opinion, about the relevance of my comments, and shove it all the way up with a red-hot poker.
December 29th, 2007 at 8:33 pmthe focus of criticicm, in all the left leaning blogs, should be on kristol, and not on the NYT. every newpaper should strive for a diversity of opinion, not just left or right, and the NYT certainly made a bold move for kristol.
will he actually be working as a “journalist” and not an editorial writer? or both?
and if kristol really feels this way about the NYT, he should not have taken the job.
December 29th, 2007 at 8:36 pmAnd, I might add, anyone who accepts an editorial without checking the facts is part of the problem.
December 29th, 2007 at 8:59 pmIf the NYT is considered left leaning by many/most people; doesn’t it make sense to balance the paper with a right leaning conservative for both financial and philosophic reasons?
It might make sense if they had chosen a right-leaning individual with a proven track record of policy insight and/or the ability to recognize and tell the truth. It’s one thing to have well-considered opinions that differ from the liberal perspective, but Kristol is regarded as an idiot even by thinking people on the right. His biggest claim to fame is his uncanny ability to be 100% wrong on any topic he addresses. He lies and unlike some others on the right, he actually knows he’s lying, yet he has no shame about it. He has zero credibility as a pundit and less than zero credibility as a journalist. There is no justifiable reason for the NY Times to give him space. Damn! Now I’m going to have to cancel my subscription.
December 29th, 2007 at 9:05 pm#107 Captain Masticator keeps flooding the thread with his whining…..
So give him sumptin’ to whine about … flag him.
Cheers,
December 29th, 2007 at 9:08 pm#110 jerseyboyblue:
The NY Times needs to rescind their offer to Kristol.
Don’t worry, be happy. It was a typo. They offered the job to Billy Crystal. Which makes eminent sense.
Cheers,
December 29th, 2007 at 9:11 pmNo one is a better spokesperson for opposing the neocons than the trolls they send in here.
One neocon troll can do the work of ten liberal bloggers.
Comment by BARTLEBEE — December 29, 2007 @ 3:10 pm
This would make a reasonable explanation for the hiring of Kristol, if the NYT were truly a “liberal” paper, which it is not.
I’ve thought for a long time that Kristol is a very effective face of neocon loonery. Giving his ideas wide exposure can’t help but convince reasonable people of the bankruptcy of the neocon agenda.
December 29th, 2007 at 10:19 pmWhooooeeeee! This is an amazing number of illiterate lunatics all in one place! And guess what; they all seem to think the NY Times is/was a good paper! Tells you something, don’t it?
December 29th, 2007 at 10:56 pmWell, I don’t mind.
December 30th, 2007 at 12:36 amThat’s just another place where I can avoid this Machivellian/Straussian deceiver. Or read it to study a delusional mind :)
Comment #114: “If CaptainMantastic wants a bone he can arrange to meet Larry Craig in Denver or D.C.
I have come to the point where whenever a troll posts off thread or justs posts some really stupid crap I hit the abuse button on every post they make on that thread. I would like to see a system where fellow posters could rate the trool tripe and ban the poster post haste.”
Comment by Saint Augustine — December 29, 2007 @ 6:46 pm
I’ve been calling for such a system for a long time. I have been ignored by ThinkProgress, and by many of the so-called “progressive” posters in here.
I hope your pleas are heard, Saint Augustine!
December 30th, 2007 at 3:45 amIt is evident that the old grey lady is getting senile. Else why the horrific blunder of bringing on Bill Kristol as a columnist.
I for one am fed up — and intend on giving up the paper in favor of the blogs, wires (where a lot of their news seems to come from these days), and local NY news: the New York Daily News. Enough is enough.
December 30th, 2007 at 9:53 amNormally, people are hired by an employer looking at their resume, the applicants proven skills, and their interview. I find Kristol, being personable, just like Dubya has been described by those to talk with him. Another testament that bigoted and criminal behavior can come from a likable person.
As the years have wore on, I have experienced Kristol as being a consistently bigoted ideologue just as fierce as Dubya. Facts and rationality are irrelevant to him to both. CaptainMantastic says we can benefit from his argument in the marketplace of ideas. I can only ask how. I thought the idea was to elevate the discussion not to seek a lowest common denominator.
He refuses to argue with facts or use reason. Kristol believes in his ideology and sees his mission to push institutions and this country toward his ideology. Pat Robertson and his ilk do that, so why doesn’t the NYT hire those demagogs as well.
His past and proven skills belie his honesty and integrity to be a NYT columnist. They do speak admirability of his capacity to be a mouth piece for a bigoted and ideological paper The Weekly Standard. So, NYT please post all the lies and wrong-headed statements after each column he writes as a disclaimer. I do not understand why any one wants to read him. Why couldn’t they just let him write an occasional editorial with his record attached. It is horrific. What a bummer!!!!
December 30th, 2007 at 11:05 amI rather agree with Kristol, the Times has become a second rate newspaper and now that they are again playing in muddy puddles and hiring the well-known Billy Boy alias “the son of his father” Kristol they will sink even lower.
Does the Times actually believe, I doubt they do much thinking anymore, people are going to pay even devaluated dollars to read what it is evident he is going to say. He is notorious for his repetion of, this time I will get it right mantra, all we need is another war.
December 30th, 2007 at 11:39 amQuit whining losers…now you’ll get a dose of common sense at least once a week…
December 31st, 2007 at 12:58 pmI dont read the times anymore because it has gone way to Neo Con and is a propaganda tool of the Bush Administration. Mr Majestic why dont you jump off a bridge. You dont get it. We are NOT interested in any Neo Con opninions any more…We arent interested in your BS anymore! There is enough of it on Fox News AND the NYT. I hope people like you just vanish. I have no interest in conversation with people who support the present administration. BYE BYE!
December 31st, 2007 at 1:21 pmThe fact that anyone would respect anything Kristol says really speaks terribly about America, and the fact that the NYT would even think of hiring this joker really speaks terribly about the NYT. Come on! Wake up everyone! This guy is evil. He fed us a line in helping to goad us into Iraq. He is a freakin hypocrite who bites the hand and then accepts food from it in the NYT. He is a butt head!!! Wake up America. You have fallen under Morder, oops I mean Murdoch’s evil spell.
It will take an Obama to wake America up. To guide us out of this mess. The right won’t listen to anyone else with any sense.
December 31st, 2007 at 1:23 pmalso:
anyone that calls themselves Neo Con is the scum of the earth!
BYE BYE.
December 31st, 2007 at 1:25 pmScoreboard, baby: check out the US progress in Iraq.
December 31st, 2007 at 2:21 pmI love to see losers whine…
Q: How do I cancel my subscription?
A: To cancel your subscription, please call 1-800-NYTIMES (1-800-698-4637).
press #4
then press #2
You will be connected to a customer care representative.
Be sure and mention Kristol as the reason.
January 7th, 2008 at 2:27 pm