FEMA’s Katrina recovery chief retiring this week.
By on Dec 31st, 2007 at 11:45 am
FEMA’s Katrina recovery chief retiring this week.
Gil Jamieson, who for the past two years has overseen the Federal Emergency Management Agency’s Hurricane Katrina recovery efforts, announced recently in an internal agency memo that he will retire on Thursday. Recovery efforts under Jamieson have been “widely criticized by local residents and officials who complain that FEMA has created a maze of red tape with its interpretation of laws governing disaster aid.” Soon after Katrina, Jamieson and other top FEMA officials countermanded “a directive” by the FEMA official then-in charge of streamlining the flow of disaster aid “that would have cut through the red tape and expedited a staggering 1,029 rebuilding projects and $5.3 billion.”
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Why isn’t anyone asking the presidential candidates whether or not they would approve / decline the CA waiver for tighter emissions restrictions on automobiles?
December 31st, 2007 at 11:46 amWho farted in here? Smells like jason.
December 31st, 2007 at 11:54 amComment by Jason M. Hendler — December 31, 2007 @ 11:46 am
Jason, Jason, Jason!
You already posted this completely off-topic subject in another thread today.
It’s a good question, and I even put in my two cents’ worth on it — since we don’t have a ThinkFast thread today, I can understand your wanting to put it somewhere.
But let’s not litter ALL the threads with it — okay? Do you have anything to say about FEMA? About Gil Jamieson? About Katrina? About anything remotely close to the subject matter of this thread?
December 31st, 2007 at 11:55 amJamieson is just another lackie in a long line of bush bot’s that want’s to spend more time with his family…..LOL..bull shit will find him a better job further up the kiss ass ladder….
December 31st, 2007 at 11:57 amBut let’s not litter ALL the threads with it — okay? Do you have anything to say about FEMA? About Gil Jamieson? About Katrina? About anything remotely close to the subject matter of this thread?
Comment by missmolly — December 31, 2007 @ 11:55 am
You give jason far too much credit. He does the same thing even when there is a ThinkFast thread because he’s not interested in discussion. He’s interested in slandering Democrats and liberals and derailing discussion whenever possible.
December 31st, 2007 at 12:00 pmMy prediction – look for a new hire soon at Innovative Emergency Management.
December 31st, 2007 at 12:00 pmHow can you tell he resigned?
Comment by BARTLEBEE — December 31, 2007 @ 11:59 am
He released a statement, thereby proving that he actually exists.
December 31st, 2007 at 12:02 pmThe conservatives revamped FEMA into a sub-agency so any requests for aid needed to be reviewed by local and state officials, FEMA, DHS, and the OMB within the White House. Rather than distributing funds in a matter of days when FEMA was its own agency those funds would now take weeks or months to approve. Rather than saving any money this policy wasted the time of dozens (hundreds?) of government employees doing consecutive reviews of the same projects. Meanwhile the recovery effort stalls while everyone waits for the money to be released.
Will the bounds of George Bush’s incompetence ever be fully realized?
December 31st, 2007 at 12:02 pmHe’s going to open a trailer park.
December 31st, 2007 at 12:06 pmHe’s going to open a trailer park.
Comment by Nevar — December 31, 2007 @ 12:06 pm
Bush?
December 31st, 2007 at 12:07 pmHe’s going to open a trailer park.
Comment by Nevar — December 31, 2007 @ 12:06 pm
Bush?
Comment by gummitch
No, Jason.
December 31st, 2007 at 12:10 pmSpencer Hsu of the Wash. Post wrote a great piece in Aug. 06:First the Flood, Now the Fight
Critics Say FEMA Is Impeding Gulf Coast Rebuilding As Disputes Hold Up Nearly $1 Billion in Relief Funds
Gil H. Jamieson, FEMA’s deputy director for Gulf Coast recovery, agreed that “we’re in this to rebuild the city” and added: “We are not in it to delay for the sake of delay. Are there folks who sometimes hose it up? Absolutely. But I think we’re doing a good job of helping it recover.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/29/AR2006082901289.html
Not to provide excuses, but it may be a bit unfair to call him a “just another lackie in a long line of bush bots…” witch1.
December 31st, 2007 at 12:26 pmHe’s been with FEMA since 1979.
Lest we forget:
The Bush flooding of New Orleans: an unnatural disaster. A letter published in The Berkeley Daily Planet:
To the Editor:
“We don’t care, we don’t care” was the chant of pro-war, pro-Bush hecklers across the street from the Camp Casey peace vigil in Crawford, Texas in late August, 2005. This “we don’t care” chant pretty much sums up the attitude of the Bush Syndicate (B. S.) towards the rest of us in America. Actually, Bush, Cheney and the rest of this idiotic neo-con government believes that the only true function of the federal government is to create private money-making opportunities for themselves, their friends, and their corporate contributors. Any activity other than waging aggressive war to steal and colonize other countries’ natural resources falls into the category of “we don’t care.”
The Bush flood of New Orleans happened after the massive Hurricane Katrina had passed the city. It was both predictable and preventable. The Bush flood and the slow-as-molasses-in-January Bush response to it has ripped off the facade of the inept Bush Department of Homeland Security (DHS) and its subsidiary, the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA). The upper echelons of both of these massive federal bureaucracies have been staffed by incompetent and uncaring Bush buddies, cronies, hacks, frat brothers, former roommates, horse attorneys, contributors and other miscellaneous nincompoops. In making his appointments to the executive management of DHS and FEMA, Bush gave little if any thought to their actual qualifications in the field of emergency management.
Over the last several years, Bush and the GOP-controlled House and Senate have poured over one hundred billion tax dollars into “Homeland Security.” What did we get as the federal response to Hurricane Katrina? We got homeland stupidity. After the massive flooding of New Orleans, which initially covered about eighty percent of the city, thousands of residents were herded to the Superdome where they denied water, food, medicine, bedding, toilet facilities and police protection for several long days, meanwhile the Bush gang partied and carried on with their “business as usual” and “let them eat cake” imperial attitudes. George strummed his guitar, raised campaign funds, cut cake with Senator McCain, while Connie Rice did her Imelda Marcos imitation, shopping for expensive shoes in New York City before going to a Broadway play, while Cheney first went on vacation, fishing in Wyoming and then mansion shopping in Maryland, and Rumsfeld went to a professional ball game.
In the first several days of the flooding of New Orleans cable news reporters had to point out the severity of the suffering of thousands of people in the Superdome to the heads of FEMA and DHS. These two had apparently followed the lead of the ever-clueless Bush by not watching the unfolding disaster being revealed on television.
The searing images of human suffering that were shown on television in the first several days after the flooding of New Orleans showed thousands of poor people herded into the Louisiana Superdome and the New Orleans Convention Center without any water, any food, any medicines, any toilet facilities, any bedding or any police protection.
The conduct of the inept corrupt Bush regime in this unnatural disaster (the Bush flood and the slow spastic Bush response of flood relief) is nothing short of criminal. Since the illegitimate Bush regime came to power in January 2001, they have allowed and encouraged massive developments in the natural low-lying wetlands around New Orleans. The presence of these wetlands traditionally helped to protect New Orleans from the storm surges which accompany hurricanes.
The first actions of FEMA after Hurricane Katrina and Flood Bush struck New Orleans was to try to stop almost all of the volunteer, state and federal help from coming into the disaster area. FEMA blocked volunteer help from WalMart, the Coast Guard, the Red Cross, AMTRAK, hundreds of airboats from Florida, the City of Chicago emergency teams, Loudoun County (Virginia) sheriffs, the Nevada police, the New Mexico National Guard, fire-fighting planes from the U. S. Forest Service and even the U. S. Bataan, a hospital ship stationed in the Gulf of Mexico. FEMA also stopped or ignored offers of help from foreign countries including Canada, Cuba and Venezuela, over twenty European counties and Asian countries including Iran and India.
One supposes that volunteer help and aid undercuts the Bush Syndicates system of private corporations making bags of money off of the Bush war on Iraq and the Bush expedited flooding of New Orleans.
It is troubling to see many no-bid federal contracts being given to large corporations for reconstruction along the Gulf Coast. The terms of “no-bid contracts” mean that the corporations get to charge their profits as a percentage of costs incurred, so there is no incentive to be thrifty; in fact, it is the opposite, the more money that the corporate contractor spends on construction, the higher their corporate profits. Add to this the fact that Bush just signed an executive order that suspended the traditional requirement that federal contractors must pay labor the prevailing wages, instead the federal contractors can now pay workers as little as minimum wage. So the folks who are the poorest, get kicked again by Bush. He kicks ‘em again when they’re down.
New Orleans should be rebuilt on a cooperative local basis. Habitat for Humanity should be the model used for the reconstruction of the many flood-damaged homes in New Orleans. As many physically-able local residents as possible should be employed in the reconstruction of their neighborhoods.
Yours truly,
James K. Sayre
11 September 2005
December 31st, 2007 at 12:28 pmJamieson said, “the time is right” to hold the nation’s disaster law “to the light of day.”
“We need to take a look at how well the legislation has served us.”
December 31st, 2007 at 12:28 pm#15 Sayre- well written.
December 31st, 2007 at 12:31 pmJustice is served….yum…
December 31st, 2007 at 12:33 pmWhen the going gets tough, Repubicans run like cowards. AWOL Bush and draft dodger Dick Cheney are two prime examples.
December 31st, 2007 at 12:33 pmMaybe some footprints near or around New Orleans?
Comment by BARTLEBEE — December 31, 2007 @ 12:12 pm
Only the elusive skunk ape prints found, could those be his?
December 31st, 2007 at 12:33 pmHe’s going to open a trailer park.
Comment by Nevar — December 31, 2007 @ 12:06 pm
Bush?
Comment by gummitch
No, Jason.
Jamieson.
December 31st, 2007 at 12:33 pmHe got a good deal on some used travel trailers, but he’s going in with George on the ranch. That’s what all the brush clearing is about.
Replacing Jamieson is going to be one of Bush’s most difficult appointments. His proclivity for replacing disasterous appointees with even worse ones is going to be sorely tested, here. How does one do even LESS than nothing?
December 31st, 2007 at 12:35 pmRecovery efforts under Jamieson have been “widely criticized by local residents and officials who complain that FEMA has created a maze of red tape with its interpretation of laws governing disaster aid.â€
Waddayawanna bet this shitwhistle ends up as a lobbyist or an exec in the health insurance ‘industry? If anyvbody has demonstrated their loyalty to the executive philosophy that the best waxy to save money is to “not spend it,” this guy needs to be in charge of surgical re-imbursements for CIGNA, or some other predatory outfit.
December 31st, 2007 at 12:39 pmThere is no saving Africa, when it’s people gleefully hack each other with machetes:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,319148,00.html
Capitalism cannot take root in a continent in which property rights aren’t recognized and enforced.
December 31st, 2007 at 12:39 pmDo not let these people off the hook. If you attend a party that they are at, please either directly ridicule them or ask endless questions about their performance. They deserve no less. I hope this also extends to Bush and Cheney when they are no longer in office; it is safisfying to hear that Gonzales as not been able to profit from speaking engagements.
This summer after playing a round of golf I happened to be seated at a table where the visiting friend of a golfing buddy was seated. This person was involved in building projects in Iraq. As I listened I could tell the he was part of the infamous projects that were mismanaged and were now crumbling at great expense to you and me. Everyone else at the table hung on the stories of the progress being made by his company – out of Huston, TX of course.
Then I began to ask questions about the mismanagement, the involvement of his company and the status of the building projects that he had completed. It turns out that he and his company was part of the problem and not part of the solution, and that they were merely feasting off the mismanagement condoned by the Bush administration.
Well the guy soon left and I felt quite good in the fact that the rest of my golf buddies were witness to the truth.
December 31st, 2007 at 12:40 pmGood one, judyinnm!
December 31st, 2007 at 12:43 pmCapitalism cannot take root in a continent in which property rights aren’t recognized and enforced.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler
Jason- on this we agree- The Supreme Court concluded in June ‘05 that local governments have the authority to seize private land and turn the property over to private developers for economic development.
December 31st, 2007 at 12:44 pmCapitalism cannot take root in a continent in which property rights aren’t recognized and enforced.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler
History has shown that colonists with superior weapons and deadly diseases have been able to establish the notion of “property rights” by eliminating or otherwise exploiting the inhabitants of said continents.
“We do not inherit the land from our ancestors, we borrow the use of it from our children.”
December 31st, 2007 at 12:47 pmCapitalism cannot take root in a continent in which property rights aren’t recognized and enforced.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — December 31, 2007 @ 12:39 pm
Wow!!! Does this mean you advocate giving the US back to the Indians?
December 31st, 2007 at 12:48 pm#27, leftcoast,
Not sure if you are for or against the Supreme Court ruling, but I am against it.
It is common for governments to seize land for common use – bridges, highways, etc. – but not for a shopping mall, which benefits the developers far more than any citizen.
December 31st, 2007 at 12:48 pm#29, TROS,
If you hadn’t noticed, the native Americans (or Indians, as they prefer) are buying back their lands through gaming revenues – give it time.
December 31st, 2007 at 12:50 pmJason- I’m against it. We need some legislation to deal with this issue. An amendment was killed by House Repubs during the Farm Bill I believe.
December 31st, 2007 at 12:51 pmJason- I take that back. R- Larry Craig introduced the amendment. I need to research the vote. Sorry.
December 31st, 2007 at 12:53 pmWill the bounds of George Bush’s incompetence ever be fully realized?
Comment by fletc3her — December 31, 2007 @ 12:02 pm
Although Bush is egregiously incompetent, this may be yet another case of deliberate, programmed failure by government. Since Bush took office the Republicans have been determined to prove that government can’t work, except to start endless wars that cannot be won.
December 31st, 2007 at 12:54 pmJason- on this we agree- The Supreme Court concluded in June ‘05 that local governments have the authority to seize private land and turn the property over to private developers for economic development.
Comment by leftcoast — December 31, 2007 @ 12:44 pm
I hope they’re compensating thoroughly before seizing that property.
December 31st, 2007 at 12:54 pmWhat else can you expect from a goverment operation? Privatize FEMA and let the markets re-build New Orleans.
Comment by Frank M — December 31, 2007 @ 12:57 pm
In case you hadn’t noticed, this administration did both of these. They outsourced the disaster planning to Innovative Emergency Management, a big Republican donor with no experience in disaster management or mitigation, and outsourced the rebuilding of critical infrastructure to no-bid contractors. This “government operation” has had very little input from the government.
December 31st, 2007 at 1:03 pm#36, Frank M,
I remember in the early days right after Katrina, when newcasters would report from the devasted areas, that you no longer heard any jazz music in New Orleans, just mariachi music, as illegal immigrants opened up shop and made coin from clean up and reconstruction, so, in a way, market forces were working.
December 31st, 2007 at 1:03 pmGeorge Carlin says that Bush and Cheney owns everybody on this message board. Have you seen this……..
George Carlin – Who Really Controls America http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=935607276
December 31st, 2007 at 1:03 pmFrank- I agree. I’m spending more and I’m taxed more. It’s been a great 8 years.
December 31st, 2007 at 1:04 pmIf you hadn’t noticed, the native Americans (or Indians, as they prefer) are buying back their lands through gaming revenues – give it time.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler
Please back up this ludicrous statement with proof. The Indians are not profiting from gaming revenues, the Las Vegas and Atlantic City mafia are profiting. Have you ever been to one of these casinos on reservation land? I have and it wasn’t pretty. I drove through an Indian town that was little more than a hovel to a huge glittering glamorous casino. If the Indians are profiting from the gaming on their lands, why was I not driving through a prosperous neighborhood?
December 31st, 2007 at 1:04 pmFrank- I agree. I’m spending more and I’m taxed more. It’s been a great 8 years.
Comment by leftcoast — December 31, 2007 @ 1:04 pm
What about that $300 check you got in 2001 – hope you didn’t spend that all in one place!
December 31st, 2007 at 1:06 pmIf the Indians are profiting from the gaming on their lands, why was I not driving through a prosperous neighborhood?
Comment by bilbobaggins — December 31, 2007 @ 1:04 pm
Here’s the kind of prosperity native Americans get. Let’s see a casino fix this:
- Lakota men have a life expectancy of less than 44 years, lowest of any country in the World (excluding AIDS) including Haiti.
- Lakota death rate is the highest in the United States.
- The Lakota infant mortality rate is 300% more than the U.S. Average.
- Teenage suicide rate is 150% higher than the U.S national average for this group.
- More than half the Reservation’s adults battle addiction and disease.
- Alcoholism affects 8 in 10 families.
- Median income is approximately $2,600 to $3,500 per year.
- 97% of our Lakota people live below the poverty line.
- The Tuberculosis rate on Lakota reservations is approx 800% higher than the U.S national average.
- Cervical cancer is 500% higher than the U.S national average.
- The rate of diabetes is 800% higher than the U.S national average.
http://www.republicoflakota.com/why.htm
December 31st, 2007 at 1:10 pmtoasterhead- I hope you saw my sarcasm. 2001? No, it was 600 for me. And, thankfully I really didn’t need it.
We’re so far in debt, my great grandkids will be paying for this same-old government process. Government is broken in America.
December 31st, 2007 at 1:17 pmHE RETIRED NOW??!!!!???? DOES THAT MEAN THAT AFTER THE FIASCO THAT WAS BRAODCASTED ACROSS THE GLOBE, HE STILL KEPT HIS JOB!!!!!!!!!!!???????? YOU KNOW LAURA BUSH CALLED HURACANE KATRINA, HURACANE ‘KARINA’? THIS GUY IS LUCKY THAT I NEVER LOST ANY LOVE ONE THERE…
December 31st, 2007 at 1:18 pmtoasterhead, that was great a post on the Indian Gaming. No sarcasm.
December 31st, 2007 at 1:18 pmPrivatize FEMA and let the markets re-build New Orleans.
Comment by Frank M — December 31, 2007 @ 12:57 pm
So Frank, tell me how privatizing our military has been working out. A private security mercenary costs 3 to 5 times as much to field as a soldier. Is that your idea of wise spending?
December 31st, 2007 at 1:19 pmtoasterhead, that was great a post on the Indian Gaming. No sarcasm.
Comment by leftcoast — December 31, 2007 @ 1:18 pm
Thanks! Don’t worry – I don’t need a /sarc tag to know who’s being sarcastic… :)
December 31st, 2007 at 1:20 pmFrank M is much too conservative
December 31st, 2007 at 1:25 pmTHE GUY WHO TOLD DICK CHENNEY TO ‘F..YOU CHENNEY’ ON TV WHILE THE WAR CRIMINAL WAS POSING FOR A PHOTO OPPORTUNITY SHOULD BE MADE A HERO!
December 31st, 2007 at 1:25 pmHow much is government responsible to us? What is the role we wish it to play?
December 31st, 2007 at 1:26 pmAny takers?
Wow. It looks like Jason Man Handler has diverted this thread twice with off-topic posts. And some folks let him. I understand the temptation; when someone posts crap that begs as loudly as Jason’s does to be refuted, it’s hard to resist.
Maybe Jason has learned that he gets more responses the stupider his posts get.
And in other troll news, it appears that frank M has swallowed the Republican line about “government can’t work” hook, line and sinker. Newsflash, Frankie: it’s only REPUBLICAN government that doesn’t work. Whether that is on purpose or just due to incompetence is difficult to tell at this point.
December 31st, 2007 at 1:26 pmLet me re-phrase this: What role should government play?
December 31st, 2007 at 1:28 pmFrank M is much too conservative
Comment by Nachos of Justice
Frank M has stated here in this site that he needs a ‘mustang’ that his red neck father gave him, to actually get to the ‘girls’… Do you expect that sudenly his intelectual level will rise????????!!!!!
December 31st, 2007 at 1:28 pmComment by justasking – good start. Keep going.
December 31st, 2007 at 1:28 pmjust asking,
I know that you would like to believe that there was no war and no poverty in Africa prior to colonialism. I know that you prefer to think of Africans as peace loving environmentalists, whose pristine lifestyle was tainted by Europeans.
As long as you maintain this myth in your head, 20,000 sub-Saharan African children will continue to die everyday.
December 31st, 2007 at 1:34 pm“The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals … it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government … it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen’s protection against the government.”
Government “help” to business is just as disastrous as government persecution… the only way a government can be of service to national prosperity is by keeping its hands off.
December 31st, 2007 at 1:35 pmComment by justasking – you are still on the right path.
December 31st, 2007 at 1:37 pmAsk yourself what you want your government to be responsible for.
Comment by justasking- read any rand.
December 31st, 2007 at 1:38 pmLet me re-phrase this: What role should government play?
Comment by leftcoast — December 31, 2007 @ 1:28 pm
Are you asking in a broad sense or specifically regarding disaster management?
My belief is that government should play a coordinating role in disaster response, conducting needs assessments, tracking the responses of all government, private, and NGO relief agents, and directing the restoration of essential infrastructure through a combination of government and private entities in a transparent manner. In the long-term, government should assist homeowners and business owners through grants and loan guarantees to assist with rebuilding of affected areas, and provide the necessary infrastructure framework (levees, bridges, etc) that will allow those areas to be better prepared for the next event.
December 31st, 2007 at 1:40 pmThe New Deal was pretty good. So was Johnson’s Great Society.
Comment by justasking
I’m not saying that good government means being hands-off. I’m saying, we must keep the basic tenet that government must only do that which powers are granted.
December 31st, 2007 at 1:41 pmRather read Gahndi.
Comment by justasking — December 31, 2007 @ 1:39 pm
I highly recommend Atlas Shrugged. It’s one of the best insomnia cures ever written.
December 31st, 2007 at 1:42 pmtoasterhead and justasking- I suppose, what I’m trying to get at is the larger picture.
December 31st, 2007 at 1:43 pmJason M. Hendler
December 31st, 2007 at 1:43 pmWHAT A LOAD…!!!! FROM THE MOMENT THE EUROPEAN SET FOOT IN LATIN AMERICA THEY STARTED THE EXPLOITATION OF THAT CONTINENT WITHOUT ANY INTEREST IN DEVELOPING IT. SLAVERY WAS ONLY ABOLISHED AFTER THE INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION. AND IT WAS DONE SO NOT BECAUSE OF ANY ‘HUMAN VALUES’ BUT WITH THE AIM IN CREATING A CLASS OF CONSUMERS. I SUGGEST YOU DO SOME READING REGARDING COLONIALISM. “LAS VENAS ABIERTAS DE LA AMERICA LATINA” EDUARDO GALEANO IS A GOOD START. THAN, TAKING BY YOUR COMMENT, YOU SHOULD READ HISTORY. NOT THE ONE YOU READ IN HIGH SCHOOL, BUT REAL HISTORY.
Atlas Shrugged- toasterhead, you’re right there. I had a long slog through that so many years ago.
December 31st, 2007 at 1:44 pmI’m saying, we must keep the basic tenet that government must only do that which powers are granted.
Comment by leftcoast — December 31, 2007 @ 1:41 pm
I’m pretty sure natural disaster response falls well into the “insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare” part of the Preamble.
December 31st, 2007 at 1:44 pmtoasterhead and justasking- I suppose, what I’m trying to get at is the larger picture.
Comment by leftcoast — December 31, 2007 @ 1:43 pm
Hard to say – the devil’s really in the details. But in the extremely broad aggregate I think that in a capitalist society government should both protect individual liberties and safety while at the same time promoting competition and economic opportunity. Again, the issue gets more complex when you start looking at individual policies and their effect on specific industries.
December 31st, 2007 at 1:47 pmToasterhead- # 77- are you sure?
December 31st, 2007 at 1:49 pmGovernment is not responsible. WE are. WE have given so much away to those who have no interest in us,( big corp and government shills) because we ask them to protect us from everything.
December 31st, 2007 at 1:52 pmI need to go. Love you guys. And that means even trolls. Be back in awhile if possible. Happy New Year. Think, investigate, and above all listen.
December 31st, 2007 at 1:56 pmGovt, like anything else in this world, is no better or worse then the men who comprise it.
Comment by BARTLEBEE — December 31, 2007 @ 1:56 pm
I was gonna say just that…but not as eloquent.
Comment by justasking — December 31, 2007 @ 1:59 pm
December 31st, 2007 at 2:05 pmJust had to comment about this:
Govt is WE, NOT the men who comprise it.
One more time: What do you think government’s role should be?
This may very well be a question as to how you make yourself through life, as well as what you vote for or against.
December 31st, 2007 at 2:08 pmWell can you send me a copy of your nuclear launch codes because I can’t seem to find mind.
Comment by BARTLEBEE — December 31, 2007 @ 2:08 pm
December 31st, 2007 at 2:11 pmYou don’t understand what I’m saying. We are on the same path here.
Government is not responsible. WE are. WE have given so much away to those who have no interest in us,( big corp and government shills) because we ask them to protect us from everything.
Comment by leftcoast — December 31, 2007 @ 1:52 pm
In a democracy, we are responsible for that government, and are thus responsible for communicating to that government what we expect of it in return for our tax dollars.
Again, it’s a question of specific policy. In the context of disaster response, it’s reasonable for the people to expect the government to provide law and order in the wake of a natural disaster. Law enforecement and maintenance of order is one service I think we can all agree is an inherently governmental function. However, the way they go about it is also important, and there’s a difference between sending in the National Guard – an organization accountable to the people through a strong chain of command, and Blackwater – a private paramilitary force accountable only to a contracting officer in a basement cubicle in Washington.
December 31st, 2007 at 2:12 pmI can’t give you the answer you want to hear.
Comment by justasking — December 31, 2007 @ 2:11 pm
December 31st, 2007 at 2:14 pmI don’t want you to answer here. This is a question we all will need to ask ourselves. The answer is difficult.
“it’s reasonable for the people to expect the government to provide law and order in the wake of a natural disaster.” Tosterhead
Agree. Law and order.
December 31st, 2007 at 2:16 pmBARTLEBEE -”WE elect, but its a childs dream to say “we are the govtâ€.
“The fact is we are NOT the govt, but we CHOSE the govt, so therefore it is imperitive to chose EDUCATED and QUALIFIED men and women.
Your first premise saddens me. But the second the best.
December 31st, 2007 at 2:20 pmjustasking- “general welfare”, again, what do we define it as. It is very subjective. But, I will say I ere on the side of taking care of others, but how much, once again, is govt. responsible for.
December 31st, 2007 at 2:22 pmI don’t want you to answer here. This is a question we all will need to ask ourselves. The answer is difficult.
Comment by leftcoast — December 31, 2007 @ 2:14 pm
You’re right – it is an important question we all need to ask ourselves as citizens and as voters. I’ve provided my answer – what’s yours?
December 31st, 2007 at 2:23 pmWe shouldn’t let portions of our country and citizens suffer because of any reason. We say we’re moral.
Comment by justasking — December 31, 2007 @ 2:21 pm
December 31st, 2007 at 2:25 pmWell said! And I agree. But, who is WE? You, me? Govt?
I’m sorry, justasking, I meant, are you and I responsible, or is govt?
December 31st, 2007 at 2:28 pmGovernment, will reflect the individual. Now, how do we wish to see ourselves? justasking, you are spot on.
December 31st, 2007 at 2:32 pmIf you don’t want a true part in government then you can let other people make decisions for you. But then why complain?
Comment by justasking
December 31st, 2007 at 2:37 pmExactly!
That’s why corporations have stepped in and taken our role. We keep looking at elected officials as the end product of our citizenery. Our apathy is our own problem.
Comment by justasking — December 31, 2007 @ 2:48 pm
December 31st, 2007 at 2:51 pmAgain, spot on! And bartlebee, you’re right too! We all hold responsibility for those who we know are in need.
I thought the Constitution was a “living†document.
Comment by justasking — December 31, 2007 @ 2:50 pm
If you have the time, read the following.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/dieteman5.html
December 31st, 2007 at 2:54 pmSo what’s your point? We don’t have discretionary programs and just keep mandated ones that grow bigger and bigger?
Comment by justasking
December 31st, 2007 at 2:59 pmNo. My point is that WE (you and me) are responsible, not always govt.
living meaning timeless and universal. It has breath and life.
Comment by justasking — December 31, 2007 @ 2:59 pm
December 31st, 2007 at 3:01 pmYou’re right. You’re good. I guess, now, it is up to us to give it breath and life.
It does say that “we hold these truths to be self-evident….â€
Comment by justasking — December 31, 2007 @ 3:01 pm
December 31st, 2007 at 3:09 pmThe declaration, yes.
That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, –That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government
Only if you believe that the Constitution is good enough document that gives understanding to the way of governing a people.
Comment by justasking — December 31, 2007 @ 3:05 pm
December 31st, 2007 at 3:12 pmIt is the greatest document of modern man. But, governing people is not what it is about. It is about the role of the people in governing.
The declaration, yes.
That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, –That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government
Comment by leftcoast — December 31, 2007 @ 3:09 pm
And the Constitution gives us the framework in which to institute new government, if only enough voters bother to pay attention.
December 31st, 2007 at 3:13 pmI thought you would pick up on that open end. You’re right.
Comment by justasking — December 31, 2007 @ 3:16 pm
December 31st, 2007 at 3:19 pmSorry, I’m distracted at the moment.
I don’t understand why this administration would keep out the volunteerism…It shows that there are corrupt people in government.Comment by justasking — December 31, 2007 @ 3:29 pm
justasking- I don’t understand either. Govt is the easiest to corrupt because we all rely upon too much.
Frank, you are right too. But, who does the hiring? Do you leave it to anyone? Do you make sure they do the job right?
December 31st, 2007 at 3:39 pm#146: Volunteerism disrupts the official help (blocked roads, needed resources) and the arriving troops will have difficulties in separating volunteers from dangerous looters. It’s better just to let the hired help to take care of the problem.
Comment by Frank M — December 31, 2007 @ 3:36 pm
Individuals with no disaster experience should not be at a disaster site – I agree with this. However, volunteers with disaster assistance experience coming from legitimate NGOs and other government agencies should not be blocked just because FEMA is too incompetent to deal with them.
December 31st, 2007 at 3:41 pm#57: Lies from someone who keeps saying that I should be waterboarded. Show me where I have said that.
Comment by Frank M — December 31, 2007 @ 3:32 pm
YOU SAID THAT YOUR FATHER GAVE YOU A MUSTANG. AND NOW YOU COULD GET THE GIRLS… YOU SOUND SO MUCH LIKE YOUR ‘DEAR LEADER’.
December 31st, 2007 at 4:40 pmIn business, it is fairly standard for lower echelons to give at least 2 weeks notice and higher echelons to give anywhere from 1 month notice, to some positions giving several months notice.
Why don’t the Shrub execs give at least a one-week notice ?
December 31st, 2007 at 7:51 pmWhy don’t the Shrub execs give at least a one-week notice ?
Comment by MapleStreet
They want as little time for scrutiny as possible while they clean out their desks and bank accounts…..
December 31st, 2007 at 9:12 pm