The planets are bound to align sometimes…

My thought is that if the vaccination to prevent cervical cancer later in life is a “license” to have sex, imagine what kind of hissy fit people would throw if the “punishment” of pregnancy weren’t available for those nasty kids with the “ultimate license” to have sex — total infertility?

Stop whining. I don’t fall in line with YOU, and that makes me less than progressive? Give me a break.

Yes, a perfect world would be where every child is wanted, but this has never been a perfect world, so we have to deal with what we have.

Woo hoo! You’ve come up with an idea that already exists. But you want to steer clear of endorsing birth control for our children, so you come up with “shutting off” the fertility. That makes no sense whatsoever.

Using the pill and condoms — each party being responsible for themselves — is nearly fool-proof. No need to spend anymore money than we do already. Isn’t that nice?

Education is the key. In the home, and in the schools. Parents can teach their children about feelings and whatever religious bugaboos they have, and the schools can teach about mechanics, disease risk and prevention, and birth control methods. If the parents have the knowledge to teach those things, all the better.

Are YOU open to these ideas?

Parents should provide their pubescent offspring with contraceptives and instructions on how to use them (even if they’re not sexually active). STDs aren’t punishment from god, they are a threat to public health and welfare. If you love your children as much or more than your fictional deity allegedly does, you’ll follow this advice and keep them safe and childless until they are ready to care for someone else as much as you cared for them.

Comment by Marcus Aurelius — January 2, 2008 @ 5:59 pm

You are mistaken in assuming that everyone shares your casual view of sex. Your view is almost as harnful as Wright’s. Some people believe that choosing to have sex with someone is more important than choosing to go to a movie. Some people actually wait until marriage because they feel it is that important or because they feel it is a moral choice. Teens should be given solid sex education which includes encouragement to wait until they are adults as well as access to birth control. They should also be told that some people, especially young girls sometimes end up regretting having sex too soon because relationships often don’t go as they hope. People who advocate abstinence only and those who want to assume every teen will be sexually active are the source of a lot of our problems. ;)

“Allowed” was an unfortunate choice of words as was “unqualified”. “Allowed” is mostly covered by existing policies and by “unqualified” I meant under-educated about the realities of child rearing. I wasn’t, and won’t, advocate “fitness tests” though I do find it odd that one needs a driver’s license or marriage license but not a parent’s license.

I understand where you’re coming from and I didn’t make myself clear. I really am talking about the role that the medical profession plays and, to a certain extent, the state in the case of minors having kids. “Forcing” expectant parents to take classes, mandated and PAID FOR by the state, doesn’t seem unreasonable to me. Nor does it seem unreasonable to require everyone, especially expectant parents, to take a “personality test”. This would be to, hopefully, catch and treat issues before someone gets hurt.

Once again, I AM NOT saying “the state” should decide which people should be allowed to have/raise children. I AM saying that parents, especially young ones without a stable support system, should be given every bit of practical knowledge we can give them and that some supervision might be a good idea when problems are suspected. Such policies would improve things a great deal.

I’m really not a horrible ogre who wants to decide on personal issues and I understand the “slippery slope” argument. But, I think we need to do better and we can’t let fear stifle discussion.

Right now sleepiness is stifling discussion. I REALLY need to go to bed.
Good night.

And this fitness test would clearly favor those with a lot of money over a poor family with a lot of love. Childrearing is not some exact science that you can test.

“I know I’m taking a risk, but, there is some merit there. I have often wondered why one must pass a test to receive a driver’s license while, dare I say, “unqualified” people may breed to their hearts content. Poor parenting skills, probably, kill more people than auto accidents.

Now, before you start name-calling, I have no idea how such things could be accomplished and I don’t pretend to be wise enough to decide who should be allowed to raise kids. However, it’s a subject which should be discussed no matter how unpalatable it is at first blush.”

You said who should be “allowed” to raise kids. I am sorry, but the state has no right to say who should be allowed to raise children unless there is probable cause that they are abusive to their children. And those laws are in place. If you want to help kids fight for federal funding of Human Services. To go to barring parents for having kids is just horrible. “Unqualified people may breed to their hearts content”? And you suggest…what?

Maybe I’m misunderstood because I said there is some merit too the “Captain’s” idea?

I don’t see why you make the jump from doing more to prepare and educate parents, or, giving them treatment for mental illness, to deciding “fitness”. And I’m not saying it should be in “the state’s” hands. I’m not advocating forced sterilization or denying parental rights. But, I believe society can do more to give children the best parents possible BY IMPROVING THE PARENTS rather than taking children away. The first step would be to insure that people, especially young people, are told how precious and delicate a child is. Far too many think kids are like dolls, or pets.

Young men would be an excellent place to start. I don’t think our society does enough to explain the responsibilities of fatherhood. We tell them, “you could get a disease or get her pregnant”, and that’s about it. When that fails? Fathers can and do just melt away.

Why not include a field trip to a maternity ward or daycare as part of health class? How many 16 year old boys have actually been in a room with a live baby? How “real” are babies to those who haven’t? How many teenage fathers are required to talk to the mother’s OB/GYN?

Once again, all I am saying is that society, not “the state”, can do better and fear of discussion dooms us to continued failures. And, who knows, maybe that mythical “100% safe and certain birth control” will come along? How about a “pill” for men? Or, better yet, an “implant” that will last months or years? What if a man had to make a conscious decision to have an implant removed to father a child? Or, a woman make the same decision to become a mother?

If such a product were available parents would not be able to “force” their teenagers to use it under the current climate. Why? Because anything that might interfere with “reproductive rights” is taboo. Mostly I speak of youngsters. I think we need to explore all the options available. Including mandating safe, effective, birth control for minors.

There is one other case though. How often have we seen tragic stories of parents, with a mental illness, losing their kids when the stress of parenthood makes them sick? Or, even worse, harming their kids. I fail to see the harm in giving those parents the choice of mandatory treatment or lose custody.

My wife is a psychiatric nurse and I trust her experience that most cases of mental illness can be diagnosed and managed. Some of her stories would break your heart and a few have turned my stomach. Most could have been prevented. Wouldn’t it be better to require screening for expectant parents and begin needed treatment before an innocent child arrives on the scene?

O.K. I’m sleepy and starting to ramble. I’m not advocating for the state to assume parental rights. I just think there are things we could do if we were not so frightened. Most of them would fall under existing law but I think we should be willing to change the law if we can make things better.

I better get to bed. I’m about to turn into a pumpkin. Good reading you, JP. Nice to see you at the Zoo sometimes!

It’s not the best idea I’ve heard, but I’ll give him/her the benefit of the doubt of not having considered all the angles.

I was more disturbed by the Captain’s idea of shutting down fertility. Apparently he’s not heard of birth control.

SO,

Is Wendy promoting socialized health care because the private sector health insurance companies and agencies make money off of sex education?

.

He means well, JP. You’re right, it would be totally unworkable. When I was a kid, all the neighborhood parents watched out for all the kids, and the parents supported each other. Now people are just worried about getting sued.

Our values are all f_cked up, and the kids pay for it, no matter what we do.

The more I think of it the more disgusted I get. How would it be enforced??? Forced abortions? Chemical Castration? Forced historectomies? The more I think about it the more I think it is one of the craziest, sickest ideas I have ever heard.

You have good points, but the whole idea really is a slippery slope into an obscene amount of governmental interference in the family. Another thing, who gets to decide? The powers that be? The nutjobs in power now? The “leftists?” Yikes.