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	<title>Comments on: Critics Blast Fox News&#8217;s &#8216;Ideological&#8217; &#8216;Censorship&#8217; For Banning Ron Paul From NH Debate</title>
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	<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2008/01/04/fox-bans-paul/</link>
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		<title>By: BigMitch</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2008/01/04/fox-bans-paul/comment-page-3/#comment-4217880</link>
		<dc:creator>BigMitch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jan 2008 23:58:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2008/01/04/fox-bans-paul/#comment-4217880</guid>
		<description>To hell with Ron Paul. The real outrage was the exclusion of Dennis Kucinich from the ABC debate. His opinions and positions ae so much more in line with the American opinions. Out of Iraq, now. Universal single-payor not for profit medical care. Even if he has not chance of winning -- a premise that I don&#039;t accept -- just having him there makes the other candidates discuss these views.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To hell with Ron Paul. The real outrage was the exclusion of Dennis Kucinich from the ABC debate. His opinions and positions ae so much more in line with the American opinions. Out of Iraq, now. Universal single-payor not for profit medical care. Even if he has not chance of winning &#8212; a premise that I don&#8217;t accept &#8212; just having him there makes the other candidates discuss these views.<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=4217880', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: shoeless</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2008/01/04/fox-bans-paul/comment-page-2/#comment-4217067</link>
		<dc:creator>shoeless</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jan 2008 02:32:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2008/01/04/fox-bans-paul/#comment-4217067</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;    everyone should think very hard about this and being a moderate Republican I believe Ron Paul to be in the right and I will vote for him

    Comment by woogerbear â€” January 5, 2008 @ 4:15 pm

Moderate ?

Comment by Kilo&lt;/em&gt;

I don&#039;t know Kilo.  Do &quot;moderate&quot; Republicans favor a return to the Robber Baron Era of the 1890&#039;s?  Ron Paul apparently does.

Thank you for providing this information. 

CORPORATE POWER

-- He would repeal significant portions of antitrust law, including the Sherman Antitrust Act, the Clayton Antitrust Act, and others.

    H.R.1247:
    To ensure and foster continued patient safety and quality of care by exempting health care professionals from the Federal antitrust laws in their negotiations with health plans and health insurance issuers.

    H.R.1789: To restore the inherent benefits of the market economy by repealing the Federal body of statutory law commonly referred to as &quot;antitrust law&quot;, and for other purposes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>    everyone should think very hard about this and being a moderate Republican I believe Ron Paul to be in the right and I will vote for him</p>
<p>    Comment by woogerbear â€” January 5, 2008 @ 4:15 pm</p>
<p>Moderate ?</p>
<p>Comment by Kilo</em></p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know Kilo.  Do &#8220;moderate&#8221; Republicans favor a return to the Robber Baron Era of the 1890&#8217;s?  Ron Paul apparently does.</p>
<p>Thank you for providing this information. </p>
<p>CORPORATE POWER</p>
<p>&#8211; He would repeal significant portions of antitrust law, including the Sherman Antitrust Act, the Clayton Antitrust Act, and others.</p>
<p>    H.R.1247:<br />
    To ensure and foster continued patient safety and quality of care by exempting health care professionals from the Federal antitrust laws in their negotiations with health plans and health insurance issuers.</p>
<p>    H.R.1789: To restore the inherent benefits of the market economy by repealing the Federal body of statutory law commonly referred to as &#8220;antitrust law&#8221;, and for other purposes.<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=4217067', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: woogerbear</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2008/01/04/fox-bans-paul/comment-page-2/#comment-4216830</link>
		<dc:creator>woogerbear</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2008 21:15:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2008/01/04/fox-bans-paul/#comment-4216830</guid>
		<description>ts a sad thing when we have come to the point that the Republican party that is hosting the primary has no say in who gets a say in the primary...everyone should think very hard about this and being a moderate Republican I believe Ron Paul to be in the right and I will vote for him</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ts a sad thing when we have come to the point that the Republican party that is hosting the primary has no say in who gets a say in the primary&#8230;everyone should think very hard about this and being a moderate Republican I believe Ron Paul to be in the right and I will vote for him<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=4216830', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: SamDodd</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2008/01/04/fox-bans-paul/comment-page-2/#comment-4216766</link>
		<dc:creator>SamDodd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2008 19:32:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2008/01/04/fox-bans-paul/#comment-4216766</guid>
		<description>funny how they want to ban the 5th place guy in Iowa and allow the 6 and 7th place guys in Iowa.  Seems Fox is out of Step with its party.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>funny how they want to ban the 5th place guy in Iowa and allow the 6 and 7th place guys in Iowa.  Seems Fox is out of Step with its party.<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=4216766', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: shoeless</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2008/01/04/fox-bans-paul/comment-page-2/#comment-4216645</link>
		<dc:creator>shoeless</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2008 15:51:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2008/01/04/fox-bans-paul/#comment-4216645</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;Given how popular Paul is with white supremacists and anti-government militia types, you might want to rethink that invitation.

Comment by Jeremy Henderson&lt;/em&gt;

Many progressives support Ron Paul because they do not understand the inherently racist nature of libertarianism, and Ron Paul certainly isn&#039;t going to educate them about it.  When they Libertarians about individual rights in relation to discrimination, it is code for the repeal of Civil Rights Law.  White supremacists are obviously aware of this basic principle of libertarianism, and they correctly see in it their long cherished goal of a return to Jim Crow, whites only lunch counters, and darkys to the back of the bus. 

Once again, from the Libertarian Party Platform:

Section I, Part 18 DISCRIMINATION.
Consequently,  we oppose any government  attempts to  regulate  private  discrimination, including discrimination in  employment, housing, and  privately owned so-called public accommodations.   The right  to  trade  includes  the right not to trade -- for any reasons whatsoever.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Given how popular Paul is with white supremacists and anti-government militia types, you might want to rethink that invitation.</p>
<p>Comment by Jeremy Henderson</em></p>
<p>Many progressives support Ron Paul because they do not understand the inherently racist nature of libertarianism, and Ron Paul certainly isn&#8217;t going to educate them about it.  When they Libertarians about individual rights in relation to discrimination, it is code for the repeal of Civil Rights Law.  White supremacists are obviously aware of this basic principle of libertarianism, and they correctly see in it their long cherished goal of a return to Jim Crow, whites only lunch counters, and darkys to the back of the bus. </p>
<p>Once again, from the Libertarian Party Platform:</p>
<p>Section I, Part 18 DISCRIMINATION.<br />
Consequently,  we oppose any government  attempts to  regulate  private  discrimination, including discrimination in  employment, housing, and  privately owned so-called public accommodations.   The right  to  trade  includes  the right not to trade &#8212; for any reasons whatsoever.<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=4216645', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy Henderson</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2008/01/04/fox-bans-paul/comment-page-2/#comment-4216558</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy Henderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2008 08:13:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2008/01/04/fox-bans-paul/#comment-4216558</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Ron Paul supporters: you are welcomed on the Democratic side any time. We share more of your smaller government, less big brother ideals than any mainstream Republican anyways.&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;strong&gt;

Given how popular Paul is with white supremacists and anti-government militia types, you might want to rethink that invitation.&lt;/strong&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Ron Paul supporters: you are welcomed on the Democratic side any time. We share more of your smaller government, less big brother ideals than any mainstream Republican anyways.</strong><strong></p>
<p>Given how popular Paul is with white supremacists and anti-government militia types, you might want to rethink that invitation.</strong><a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=4216558', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: Sabyen91</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2008/01/04/fox-bans-paul/comment-page-2/#comment-4216527</link>
		<dc:creator>Sabyen91</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2008 07:39:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2008/01/04/fox-bans-paul/#comment-4216527</guid>
		<description>&quot;President Dwight Eisenhower identified the forerunners of those who would become the Libertarians back in 1954. Ike thought that the American people would never be dumb enough to support these sick, rich pricks. &quot;

Well, he was right about those retarded Paulites (there are about 5 really loud ones).  He was wrong in that the Republican party wouldn&#039;t skew that way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;President Dwight Eisenhower identified the forerunners of those who would become the Libertarians back in 1954. Ike thought that the American people would never be dumb enough to support these sick, rich pricks. &#8221;</p>
<p>Well, he was right about those retarded Paulites (there are about 5 really loud ones).  He was wrong in that the Republican party wouldn&#8217;t skew that way.<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=4216527', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: shoeless</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2008/01/04/fox-bans-paul/comment-page-2/#comment-4216283</link>
		<dc:creator>shoeless</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2008 05:32:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2008/01/04/fox-bans-paul/#comment-4216283</guid>
		<description>These twisted, greedy people have been around for a while. However, they didn&#039;t organize into a political party until the early &#039;70s. President Dwight Eisenhower identified the forerunners of those who would become the Libertarians back in 1954. Ike thought that the American people would never be dumb enough to support these sick, rich pricks. As usual, it turns out that Ike was correct. So, they began to talk in lofty code words about the Constitution in order to hide their true agenda. Ron Paul even went so far as to become a Republican in order to hide his Libertarian platform. He has now perfected his rhetoric so that millions of Americans support him with no clue about the awful things he wants to do to our country. 

&quot;Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes you can do these things. Among them are H. L. Hunt (you possibly know his background), a few other Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician or business man from other areas. Their number is negligible and they are stupid.&quot;- President Dwight Eisenhower</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These twisted, greedy people have been around for a while. However, they didn&#8217;t organize into a political party until the early &#8217;70s. President Dwight Eisenhower identified the forerunners of those who would become the Libertarians back in 1954. Ike thought that the American people would never be dumb enough to support these sick, rich pricks. As usual, it turns out that Ike was correct. So, they began to talk in lofty code words about the Constitution in order to hide their true agenda. Ron Paul even went so far as to become a Republican in order to hide his Libertarian platform. He has now perfected his rhetoric so that millions of Americans support him with no clue about the awful things he wants to do to our country. </p>
<p>&#8220;Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes you can do these things. Among them are H. L. Hunt (you possibly know his background), a few other Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician or business man from other areas. Their number is negligible and they are stupid.&#8221;- President Dwight Eisenhower<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=4216283', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: Sabyen91</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2008/01/04/fox-bans-paul/comment-page-2/#comment-4216280</link>
		<dc:creator>Sabyen91</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2008 05:28:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2008/01/04/fox-bans-paul/#comment-4216280</guid>
		<description>&quot;2. Libertarians are not crazy monsters who will shut down public services the first chance they get.&quot;

What???  That is one of the largest libertarian platforms!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;2. Libertarians are not crazy monsters who will shut down public services the first chance they get.&#8221;</p>
<p>What???  That is one of the largest libertarian platforms!!!<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=4216280', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: Sabyen91</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2008/01/04/fox-bans-paul/comment-page-2/#comment-4216277</link>
		<dc:creator>Sabyen91</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2008 05:27:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2008/01/04/fox-bans-paul/#comment-4216277</guid>
		<description>&quot;I just talked to my step dad and he said everybody in wisconsin where he lives likes ron paul&quot;

Must be northern WI.  I never had much faith in their common sense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I just talked to my step dad and he said everybody in wisconsin where he lives likes ron paul&#8221;</p>
<p>Must be northern WI.  I never had much faith in their common sense.<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=4216277', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: Sabyen91</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2008/01/04/fox-bans-paul/comment-page-2/#comment-4216272</link>
		<dc:creator>Sabyen91</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2008 05:24:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2008/01/04/fox-bans-paul/#comment-4216272</guid>
		<description>&quot;Dr. Paul has been elected multiple times as a Republican TX congressman since he ran as the LP presidential candidate, and ya know what - none of those â€œbad thingsâ€ you list have happened since. Give us a break.&quot;

Excuse me if I don&#039;t want the country to fall further down the Texas hole.  Texas is one big sh!thole and the big reason is the politicians there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Dr. Paul has been elected multiple times as a Republican TX congressman since he ran as the LP presidential candidate, and ya know what &#8211; none of those â€œbad thingsâ€ you list have happened since. Give us a break.&#8221;</p>
<p>Excuse me if I don&#8217;t want the country to fall further down the Texas hole.  Texas is one big sh!thole and the big reason is the politicians there.<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=4216272', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: shoeless</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2008/01/04/fox-bans-paul/comment-page-2/#comment-4216268</link>
		<dc:creator>shoeless</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2008 05:22:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2008/01/04/fox-bans-paul/#comment-4216268</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;Fire departments would be a state and/or local matter.

Comment by Brutus&lt;/em&gt;

Of course.  Why then, does the Libertarian Party put this in their NATIONAL platform?

9. PUBLIC UTILITIES

&lt;strong&gt;We advocate the termination of government-created franchise privileges and governmental monopolies for such services as&lt;/strong&gt; garbage collection, &lt;strong&gt;fire protection,&lt;/strong&gt;

You are obviously a real Libertarian, and you know why.  It&#039;s because you want exactly what your party platform says.  You know you can&#039;t disband local fire departments from the federal level.  Your goal is to rework our entire governmental system from top to bottom.  In the end, you want to do away with even local government services, including the Fire Department.  Your Party Platform lays it all out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Fire departments would be a state and/or local matter.</p>
<p>Comment by Brutus</em></p>
<p>Of course.  Why then, does the Libertarian Party put this in their NATIONAL platform?</p>
<p>9. PUBLIC UTILITIES</p>
<p><strong>We advocate the termination of government-created franchise privileges and governmental monopolies for such services as</strong> garbage collection, <strong>fire protection,</strong></p>
<p>You are obviously a real Libertarian, and you know why.  It&#8217;s because you want exactly what your party platform says.  You know you can&#8217;t disband local fire departments from the federal level.  Your goal is to rework our entire governmental system from top to bottom.  In the end, you want to do away with even local government services, including the Fire Department.  Your Party Platform lays it all out.<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=4216268', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: Brutus</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2008/01/04/fox-bans-paul/comment-page-2/#comment-4216265</link>
		<dc:creator>Brutus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2008 05:21:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2008/01/04/fox-bans-paul/#comment-4216265</guid>
		<description>Shoeless:

The &quot;foolishness&quot; as you call it, my friend, was believing in party over principle.  The principle being that this is a constitutional republic...not a &quot;one-size-fits-all&quot; democracy.  The system &quot;works&quot; only if we ALL are involved...ACTIVELY...not just one party, one message.  E PLURIBUS UNUM.

Farewell friend.

Brutus</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shoeless:</p>
<p>The &#8220;foolishness&#8221; as you call it, my friend, was believing in party over principle.  The principle being that this is a constitutional republic&#8230;not a &#8220;one-size-fits-all&#8221; democracy.  The system &#8220;works&#8221; only if we ALL are involved&#8230;ACTIVELY&#8230;not just one party, one message.  E PLURIBUS UNUM.</p>
<p>Farewell friend.</p>
<p>Brutus<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=4216265', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: Sabyen91</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2008/01/04/fox-bans-paul/comment-page-2/#comment-4216264</link>
		<dc:creator>Sabyen91</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2008 05:21:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2008/01/04/fox-bans-paul/#comment-4216264</guid>
		<description>&quot;Whereâ€™s this fooker been? Because FOX â€œsnubsâ€ Ron Paul, NOW theyâ€™re exposing censorship of competitive voices? All those so called news programs hawking neocon shite is fine, just donâ€™t â€œsnubâ€ Ron Paul.&quot;

I actually looked into it and, yes, he IS against the fairness doctrine.  Sucks to be him.  I am not throwing a pity party for him any time soon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Whereâ€™s this fooker been? Because FOX â€œsnubsâ€ Ron Paul, NOW theyâ€™re exposing censorship of competitive voices? All those so called news programs hawking neocon shite is fine, just donâ€™t â€œsnubâ€ Ron Paul.&#8221;</p>
<p>I actually looked into it and, yes, he IS against the fairness doctrine.  Sucks to be him.  I am not throwing a pity party for him any time soon.<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=4216264', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: Sabyen91</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2008/01/04/fox-bans-paul/comment-page-2/#comment-4216259</link>
		<dc:creator>Sabyen91</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2008 05:18:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2008/01/04/fox-bans-paul/#comment-4216259</guid>
		<description>&quot;I wonder about the same thing. Why are there â€œexclusiveâ€ debates in the first place?&quot;

The fairness doctrine would take care of this issue quite nicely.  I am thinking Paul wouldn&#039;t support it though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I wonder about the same thing. Why are there â€œexclusiveâ€ debates in the first place?&#8221;</p>
<p>The fairness doctrine would take care of this issue quite nicely.  I am thinking Paul wouldn&#8217;t support it though.<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=4216259', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: Brutus</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2008/01/04/fox-bans-paul/comment-page-2/#comment-4216258</link>
		<dc:creator>Brutus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2008 05:17:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2008/01/04/fox-bans-paul/#comment-4216258</guid>
		<description>OK, couldn&#039;t resist...

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/03/opinion/03tierney.html

Talks about how Ben Franklin &quot;invented&quot; the idea of the fire department...

&quot;Ben Franklin Had the Right Idea for New Orleans 
By JOHN TIERNEY
Published: September 3, 2005

Why is New Orleans in so much worse shape today than New York City was after the attacks on Sept. 11?

The short answer is that New York was attacked by fire, not water. But then why are urbanites so much better prepared to cope with fire than with flooding? Mostly because they learned to fight fire without any help from the Army Corps of Engineers or the Federal Emergency Management Agency.

For most of history, fire was far more feared than flooding. Cities repeatedly burned to the ground. Those catastrophes occurred sporadically enough that politicians must have been tempted to skimp on fire protection - like levee maintenance, it was a long-term investment against a calamity that probably wouldn&#039;t occur before they left office. 

But urbanites learned to protect themselves through two innovations Benjamin Franklin introduced to America. He started a fire department in Philadelphia, as well as its first fire insurance company. Other cities followed, often with the firefighters organized by insurance companies with a vested interest in encouraging public safety. 

Their customers had a vested interest, too, because they had to pay higher premiums if they lived in homes or neighborhoods that were prone to fire. As fire insurance became a standard requirement for homeowners, they and their insurance companies kept pressure on politicians to finance firefighting and tighten building codes. 

As a result, the risk of a fire leveling a city like New York is lower than ever. Although the number of fires has dropped so much that experts routinely advise cities to close firehouses, voters&#039; fondness for the stations makes local politicians loath to close any. 

But as we&#039;ve learned this week, few people seem to care passionately about maintaining levees or preparing for a predictable flood. They&#039;ve left that to Washington, which promised to hold back the waters and absolved coastal dwellers from worrying about hurricanes. 

Starting in the 1960&#039;s, the federal government took over the business of insuring against floods. It offered subsidized insurance to people in flood-prone areas, encouraging seaside homes that never would have been built otherwise. Even at bargain rates, most people went without flood insurance - only about a third of the homes in New Orleans carried it. 

People don&#039;t bother to protect themselves because they figure - correctly - that if disaster strikes they&#039;ll be reimbursed anyway by FEMA. It gives out money so freely that it has grown into one of the great vote-buying tools of the modern presidency. Bill Clinton set a record for declaring disasters, and then President Bush set the single-state spending record in Florida before last year&#039;s election. 

Now it&#039;s New Orleans&#039;s turn. Since Washington didn&#039;t keep its promise to protect the city, the federal government should repair the damage and pay for a new flood-control system. But New Orleans and other coastal cities will never be safe if they go on relying on Washington for protection. Members of Congress will always have higher priorities than paying for levees in someone else&#039;s state. 

The federal government has a role in coordinating flood control among states and in organizing outside disaster relief, but the locals should fight floods much the same way they fight fires. Fifteenth-century Dutch burghers didn&#039;t have the financial or technological resources of today&#039;s Louisianians, but they managed to hold back the sea without the Army Corps of Engineers.

Here&#039;s the bargain I&#039;d offer New Orleans: the feds will spend the billions for your new levees, but then you&#039;re on your own. You and others along the coast have to buy flood insurance the same way we all buy fire insurance - from private companies that have more at stake than do Washington bureaucrats.

Private flood insurance has come to seem quaint in America, but in Britain it&#039;s the norm. If Americans paid premiums for living in risky areas, they&#039;d think twice about building oceanfront villas. Voters and insurance companies would put pressure on local politicians to take care of the levees, prepare for the worst - and stop waiting for that bumbling white knight from Washington. &quot;

Brutus</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, couldn&#8217;t resist&#8230;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/03/opinion/03tierney.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/03/opinion/03tierney.html</a></p>
<p>Talks about how Ben Franklin &#8220;invented&#8221; the idea of the fire department&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8220;Ben Franklin Had the Right Idea for New Orleans<br />
By JOHN TIERNEY<br />
Published: September 3, 2005</p>
<p>Why is New Orleans in so much worse shape today than New York City was after the attacks on Sept. 11?</p>
<p>The short answer is that New York was attacked by fire, not water. But then why are urbanites so much better prepared to cope with fire than with flooding? Mostly because they learned to fight fire without any help from the Army Corps of Engineers or the Federal Emergency Management Agency.</p>
<p>For most of history, fire was far more feared than flooding. Cities repeatedly burned to the ground. Those catastrophes occurred sporadically enough that politicians must have been tempted to skimp on fire protection &#8211; like levee maintenance, it was a long-term investment against a calamity that probably wouldn&#8217;t occur before they left office. </p>
<p>But urbanites learned to protect themselves through two innovations Benjamin Franklin introduced to America. He started a fire department in Philadelphia, as well as its first fire insurance company. Other cities followed, often with the firefighters organized by insurance companies with a vested interest in encouraging public safety. </p>
<p>Their customers had a vested interest, too, because they had to pay higher premiums if they lived in homes or neighborhoods that were prone to fire. As fire insurance became a standard requirement for homeowners, they and their insurance companies kept pressure on politicians to finance firefighting and tighten building codes. </p>
<p>As a result, the risk of a fire leveling a city like New York is lower than ever. Although the number of fires has dropped so much that experts routinely advise cities to close firehouses, voters&#8217; fondness for the stations makes local politicians loath to close any. </p>
<p>But as we&#8217;ve learned this week, few people seem to care passionately about maintaining levees or preparing for a predictable flood. They&#8217;ve left that to Washington, which promised to hold back the waters and absolved coastal dwellers from worrying about hurricanes. </p>
<p>Starting in the 1960&#8217;s, the federal government took over the business of insuring against floods. It offered subsidized insurance to people in flood-prone areas, encouraging seaside homes that never would have been built otherwise. Even at bargain rates, most people went without flood insurance &#8211; only about a third of the homes in New Orleans carried it. </p>
<p>People don&#8217;t bother to protect themselves because they figure &#8211; correctly &#8211; that if disaster strikes they&#8217;ll be reimbursed anyway by FEMA. It gives out money so freely that it has grown into one of the great vote-buying tools of the modern presidency. Bill Clinton set a record for declaring disasters, and then President Bush set the single-state spending record in Florida before last year&#8217;s election. </p>
<p>Now it&#8217;s New Orleans&#8217;s turn. Since Washington didn&#8217;t keep its promise to protect the city, the federal government should repair the damage and pay for a new flood-control system. But New Orleans and other coastal cities will never be safe if they go on relying on Washington for protection. Members of Congress will always have higher priorities than paying for levees in someone else&#8217;s state. </p>
<p>The federal government has a role in coordinating flood control among states and in organizing outside disaster relief, but the locals should fight floods much the same way they fight fires. Fifteenth-century Dutch burghers didn&#8217;t have the financial or technological resources of today&#8217;s Louisianians, but they managed to hold back the sea without the Army Corps of Engineers.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s the bargain I&#8217;d offer New Orleans: the feds will spend the billions for your new levees, but then you&#8217;re on your own. You and others along the coast have to buy flood insurance the same way we all buy fire insurance &#8211; from private companies that have more at stake than do Washington bureaucrats.</p>
<p>Private flood insurance has come to seem quaint in America, but in Britain it&#8217;s the norm. If Americans paid premiums for living in risky areas, they&#8217;d think twice about building oceanfront villas. Voters and insurance companies would put pressure on local politicians to take care of the levees, prepare for the worst &#8211; and stop waiting for that bumbling white knight from Washington. &#8221;</p>
<p>Brutus<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=4216258', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: Sabyen91</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2008/01/04/fox-bans-paul/comment-page-2/#comment-4216248</link>
		<dc:creator>Sabyen91</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2008 05:13:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2008/01/04/fox-bans-paul/#comment-4216248</guid>
		<description>&quot;I cant stand when people call him a lunatic. He has some really good ideas.&quot;

Once he stops being a lunatic people will stop calling him a lunatic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I cant stand when people call him a lunatic. He has some really good ideas.&#8221;</p>
<p>Once he stops being a lunatic people will stop calling him a lunatic.<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=4216248', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: shoeless</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2008/01/04/fox-bans-paul/comment-page-2/#comment-4216245</link>
		<dc:creator>shoeless</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2008 05:12:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2008/01/04/fox-bans-paul/#comment-4216245</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;An obscure website related to firearms with the 1992 Libertarian Platform? Thatâ€™s the best you could come up with?

Comment by Brutus&lt;/em&gt;

How strange that you criticize my obscure source for the 1992 Libertarian Platform and then go on to defend that very platform.

Look, you can&#039;t fool me on this, because I used to be a Libertarian.  That&#039;s why I know so much about you and your agenda.  I was a fool back in the &#039;80s.  Then I finally started to decode the Libertarian&#039;s lofty words about defending the Constitution and individual rights.

I welcome an open debate on the Libertarian platform.  I just don&#039;t want people to be fooled as I was.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>An obscure website related to firearms with the 1992 Libertarian Platform? Thatâ€™s the best you could come up with?</p>
<p>Comment by Brutus</em></p>
<p>How strange that you criticize my obscure source for the 1992 Libertarian Platform and then go on to defend that very platform.</p>
<p>Look, you can&#8217;t fool me on this, because I used to be a Libertarian.  That&#8217;s why I know so much about you and your agenda.  I was a fool back in the &#8217;80s.  Then I finally started to decode the Libertarian&#8217;s lofty words about defending the Constitution and individual rights.</p>
<p>I welcome an open debate on the Libertarian platform.  I just don&#8217;t want people to be fooled as I was.<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=4216245', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: Brutus</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2008/01/04/fox-bans-paul/comment-page-2/#comment-4216240</link>
		<dc:creator>Brutus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2008 05:09:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2008/01/04/fox-bans-paul/#comment-4216240</guid>
		<description>Apologies to all for my previous typos.

Shoeless:

Let&#039;s try some reason.

Fire departments are not granted under the US Constitution.

Fire departments would be a state and/or local matter.

&quot;Amendment 10 - Powers of the States and People. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.&quot;

Therefore, Ron Paul as President of the United States could not &quot;do away&quot; with the Fire Department.

Last time I&#039;m gonna wrestle with you.

Brutus</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apologies to all for my previous typos.</p>
<p>Shoeless:</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s try some reason.</p>
<p>Fire departments are not granted under the US Constitution.</p>
<p>Fire departments would be a state and/or local matter.</p>
<p>&#8220;Amendment 10 &#8211; Powers of the States and People. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note</p>
<p>The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.&#8221;</p>
<p>Therefore, Ron Paul as President of the United States could not &#8220;do away&#8221; with the Fire Department.</p>
<p>Last time I&#8217;m gonna wrestle with you.</p>
<p>Brutus<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=4216240', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: PollM</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2008/01/04/fox-bans-paul/comment-page-2/#comment-4216221</link>
		<dc:creator>PollM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2008 05:00:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2008/01/04/fox-bans-paul/#comment-4216221</guid>
		<description>Is Fox News playing politics by denying Ron Paul to participate in the New Hampshire Debate?

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.youpolls.com/details.asp?pid=1441&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.youpolls.com/details.asp?pid=1441&lt;/a&gt;

.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is Fox News playing politics by denying Ron Paul to participate in the New Hampshire Debate?</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youpolls.com/details.asp?pid=1441" rel="nofollow">http://www.youpolls.com/details.asp?pid=1441</a></p>
<p>.<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=4216221', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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