151,000:
By on Jan 9th, 2008 at 6:06 pm
151,000:
Number of Iraqis killed because of violence since the start of the war in March 2003 through June 2006. “The estimate comes from projections by the World Health Organization and the Iraqi government, based on door-to-door surveys of nearly 10,000 households. Experts called it the largest and most scientific study of the Iraqi death toll since the war began.”
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Cue the trolls: “how many of these Iraqis were terrorists?”
January 9th, 2008 at 6:07 pmOff topic (sorry TP friends) but has anyone seen the actual exit polls from the NH democratic primaries? It would appear from Chris Matthews this evening that the exit polls do not agree with the actual vote count; the actual vote count certainly does not agree with the pre-polls so what the hell’s going on?
Go to http://www.blackboxvoting.org to see their latest findings about the Diebold Opti Scan machine vulnerability – it takes a techie only 10 minutes to get to the memory card. It would take a high schooler a couple of days – that’s how easy it is to hack these machines, folks.
Do yourself a favor (unless you want to sleep tonight, that is) and visit http://www.blackboxvoting.org and see what possibly occurred to Obama’s win in NH last night. This is frightening stuff!
Besides, we all know that the GOP is “desperate” to have Hillary as the candidate because they have the goods on her and will swiftboat her the minute she gets the nomination. And, if their illegal spying has garnered any more “goods” on the Clintons, they’ll be toast and a Republican will win the White House in 08!
This hacking of voting machines needs to be nipped in the bud right now. There are too many Republicans who are looking at prison time and the end of their lives as they know it for them NOT to take desperate measures – and that means – hacking our elections.
January 9th, 2008 at 6:16 pmThis number is just those killed by direct violence.
January 9th, 2008 at 6:17 pmHow many thousands more have died indirectly as a result of disease, hunger and the loss of sanitation and drinking water?
I believe the refugee count is in the millions.
P.S. Mr. Silvestro of LHS Enterprises has the “chain of custody” contracts for the Diebold 91w Opti Scan machines; that’s right, a private enterprise is running our elections! Silvertro also has chain of custody contracts for all opti scan machines in Massachussetts, Vermont, and Maine as well – so the entire Northeast is pretty much under his control. He was in court recently about the obvious “vulnerability” of his software and it was discovered that a teenager could hack into it “within two days to two weeks” and blackboxvoting purchased one of his machines, took it to the neighborhood computer repair shop, and the technician was into the “brains” of the machine with TEN MINUTES!!
This information needs to be circulated to every newspaper in the nation. This information needs to be made public.
January 9th, 2008 at 6:19 pmAnd these are the very same opti-scan machines who somehow got the Republican races right (prepolls and exit polls agreeing with actual votes) and the Democratic races ALL WRONG (prepolls and exit polls NOT agreeing with actual votes). This is a red flag, folks. Take heed.
January 9th, 2008 at 6:21 pm1) This is quite a bit down from the Lancet count, but then, it would be. As a minimum possible CYA number from the Iraqi government, it’s still pretty depressing.
2) Jesus Haploid Christ in a polka-dot muu-muu! Is this crap about Diebold just going to keep going? Who started this BS? As if a primary in a tiny State, occurring under the most incredible scrutiny is a great target for election fraud. Oy. It’s such a transparent concern troll it’s giving me agita. Sorry, guys, making absurd claims about one election doesn’t necessarily invalidate legitimate questions about another.
January 9th, 2008 at 6:29 pmOff topic (sorry TP friends) but has anyone seen the actual exit polls from the NH democratic primaries? It would appear from Chris Matthews this evening that the exit polls do not agree with the actual vote count; the actual vote count certainly does not agree with the pre-polls so what the hell’s going on?
Comment by Veritas
Gee what a “cough” Deibold “cough” surprise.
January 9th, 2008 at 6:31 pmYep! I agree Veritas, good post’s BTW…Blessings
January 9th, 2008 at 6:36 pmWho was the group that said there were 600,000 killed?….Think it was last year….
January 9th, 2008 at 6:39 pmSince about 2 million Iraqis have either fled the country or relocated to other regions, how can they actually tell how many households have lost someone? Plus, I have read that many Iraqis choose not to bury their dead in cemeteries fearing that something might happen to the graves because of Moslems from rival branches of the faith and prefer to bury them in unmarked graves and not even have the bodies sent to the morgue or mortuaries. I think the death toll among civilians is probably a great deal higher.
January 9th, 2008 at 6:41 pmBesides, we all know that the GOP is “desperate†to have Hillary as the candidate because they have the goods on her and will swiftboat her the minute she gets the nomination. And, if their illegal spying has garnered any more “goods†on the Clintons, they’ll be toast and a Republican will win the White House in 08!
Comment by Veritas
They don’t need to wiretap them…
The Clintons have had 24/7 Secret Service agents watching their every move for years now.
The Secret Service is now a division of the Department of Homeland Security.
Michael “cough” dual citizen “cough” Chertoff is the head of Homeland Security.
There is some SERIOUS bad blood between the Clintons and Michael “cough” dual citizen “cough” Chertoff, due to some snub regarding an appointment that Bill Clinton blocked, dating back several years.
Do the math.
Not that it makes that much difference anyway, considering that Hillary “cough” AIPAC whore “cough” is just Bush “light” anyway.
Do you REALLY think that extremely wealthy and elite international banking interests, are gonna leave the outcome of the US election to chance?
GIVE… ME… A… BREAK!
These guys run the damned world. Your vote is meaningless.
LOL!!!
January 9th, 2008 at 6:41 pmBushie and Co. are beaming from ear to ear.
January 9th, 2008 at 6:45 pm151,000 dead Iraqis? That’s what they get for sitting on our oil for so long.
January 9th, 2008 at 6:45 pmI wonder how many Saddam was able to kill in a year?
You’d think that with all of the high-tech military hardware that we have, the number should have been much, MUCH higher.
January 9th, 2008 at 6:48 pmWho was the group that said there were 600,000 killed?….Think it was last year….
Comment by Witch1
January 9th, 2008 at 6:50 pmI was thinking the same thing, I’ll try to do some research on that. Shock and Awe must have wiped out a high number alone.
It’s a small price to pay for our Freedom and Safety. 9/11 gave us the right to do anything in the name of our Freedom and Safety. If they didn’t want to be killed, they should have prevented 9/11 and not been citizens of an evil regime. They should be grateful.
January 9th, 2008 at 6:52 pmJPV – you might want to do something about that cough! Sounds nasty!
:-D
January 9th, 2008 at 6:52 pmLunacy on isle #16 some one call in the arrest the nut goon’s and remove the poop…
January 9th, 2008 at 6:55 pmSeriously though – check out whiteyfresh’s comment #77 on the thinkfast general thread today.
Here’s one of the links he provided:
http://benmoseley.blogspot.com/2008/01/do-nh-primary-statistics-show-election.html
Seems that there are strange results mainly from the areas that used Diebold! There are many possible reasons for that but…
January 9th, 2008 at 6:57 pmI found it, 655,000 Iraq’ies died since start of war.
January 9th, 2008 at 6:57 pmhttp://michaelmoore.com/words/latestnews/index.php?id=8080
A team of American and Iraqi epidemiologists estimates that 655,000 more people have died in Iraq since coalition forces arrived in March 2003 than would have died if the invasion had not occurred.
The survey was done by Iraqi physicians and overseen by epidemiologists at Johns Hopkins University’s Bloomberg School of Public Health. The findings are being published online today by the British medical journal the Lancet.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/10/AR2006101001442.html
January 9th, 2008 at 6:59 pmThank’s wisedup and Badger, knew I had read that some where….Blessings
January 9th, 2008 at 7:01 pmWhitewash.
January 9th, 2008 at 7:03 pmjustme: And why not make a stink about this obvious incongruity? To put our head back in the sand and have yet another election stolen by the GOP?? Not on your life. People care/people know what’s going on with these hackable voting machines. If you think I’m a concern troll, you’re obvious not a regular here. It shows.
January 9th, 2008 at 7:11 pmThey are not dead. They are taking a freedom nap!
-GSD
Trying to laugh in the face of madness.
January 9th, 2008 at 7:15 pmMary: The fact is that the incongruity between the exit polls and actual results ONLY occurred on the Democrati side of the ticket in New Hampshire? A harbinger of things to come? At least these hackers should have had the tiniest bit of inconsistency applied to the GOP if they wanted this to not look sleazy.
Actually, exit polling has been the benchmark of determining whether an election is “fair and free” – not only in our country but in countries where we try to enforce democracy. The exit polls have been the historical standard for every election in this country. Even when Bush hacked the election in Ohio, his gremlins had the foresight to feign a breakdown and went offline with Kerry winning handily – that’s the RNC server through which Diebold there was sending their election results to the bowels of a bank building in Tennessee – then, like magic, they coordinated the exit polls to match the actual votes. This time they didn’t have the opportunity to finagle that much.
It goes without saying that the GOP has been praising Hillary ad nauseum from the outset simply because they have such dirt and skeletons on her that she will be finished as a candidate before she even gets any traction. It’s the GOP with their fingers in the cookie jar this time – along with a guy by the name of JOHN SILVESTRO, whose private company, LHS ASSOCIATES, holds the chain of custody to 80% of New Hampshire’s voting machines. LHS also has the chain of custody to all voting machines in Mass, Vermont, and Connecticut so get ready folks for some serious hacking to be done this election!
http://www.blackboxvoting.org
January 9th, 2008 at 7:17 pmBadger: These 600,000 victims of Bush’s genocidal spree are the innocents in all of this whose blood will be on Bush’s hands and the hands of his descendents for the next century. What we have done to the people of Iraq simply to get our greedy little hands on their oil is heinous, criminal, and amoral.
January 9th, 2008 at 7:20 pmSomeone bought it, really? That was too easy, eh George?
I was just trying to twist hard right. How could anyone be so arrogant and crazy? Haven’t they said liberation and glee, there’s a threat, so let’s nip it and throw ‘Remember 9/11′ in for good measure; And all that for Freedom!?
Who can say what those people died for? Their safety? Ours? The world in general?
We have some right to be there? At least they aren’t fighting here?
WTF?!?
That’s the NUTSHELL isn’t it?!
January 9th, 2008 at 7:35 pmDeaths Due to US Invasion of Iraq
1,164,650
That study, published in prestigious medical journal The Lancet, estimated that over 600,000 Iraqis had been killed as a result of the invasion as of July 2006. Iraqis have continued to be killed since then.
The estimate that over a million Iraqis have died received independent confirmation from a prestigious British polling agency in September 2007. Opinion Research Business estimated that 1.2 million Iraqis have been killed violently since the US invasion.
http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/iraq/iraqdeaths.html
** Why is TP understating the number of deaths by a factor of almost seven??
January 9th, 2008 at 7:51 pmRelax Bob, we all got duped and some point,but ‘We won’t be fooled again.’ Tell us the truth,wheather we like it or not.
January 9th, 2008 at 7:52 pmComment by Bob — January 9, 2008 @ 6:52 pm
Good one, Bob.
Sadly, somewhere there is a troll reading that and nodding his/her head…
January 9th, 2008 at 7:57 pmBob, Osama was from Saudi, not Iraq. Besides Dubya said we are in Iraq to free the oppressed muslims from Saddams dictatorship.
January 9th, 2008 at 7:59 pmA million or more displaced/ethnicly cleansed–living in poverty in Jordan and Syria, etc., –some reduced to begging, selling their bodies to survive–ah the Cheney-Bush vision!
January 9th, 2008 at 8:02 pmWell, Veritas, perhaps you’re not a concern troll, but you are buying into one. If every time anybody has an election, the cries of “Oh, it’s stolen” raise the rafters, it belittles any cogent and reasoned response to actual wrongdoing.
What “obvious incongruity”? Some hack that I wouldn’t trust to look outside and tell me if the sun is up is adopting a battlecry that was previously levied against his corporate paymasters? Sounds like the very definition of a concern troll to me. If you’re going to take Tweety at face value as a credible source, I’m just going to laugh.
I have not seen any exit poll numbers that are substantially out of kilter with the results. The pre-election polls obviously missed something, but that is hardly uncommon. If you can show me links to credible exit polling results that fall significantly outside the margin of error, I’ll be more than happy to take a look. If this is a knee-jerk reaction to your favored candidate not coming out on top, it’s dramatically harming the very cause you are trying to forward. If “Foul” is yelled at everything without any sort of proof, it begins to make hash of the entire subject. Do remember, this is supposed to be the reality based community.
P.S. That would be “obviously“, and while I don’t spend all day every day here, I’ve been known to hang around.
January 9th, 2008 at 8:09 pm2MLYTA, TP is merely reporting new figures. I think that by making it clear that these are “official Iraqi government” figures, the question of their veracity is adequately raised. The Lancet study has been considered the gold standard since it came out, except, of course, by those to whom it would be “inconvenient”. Extrapolation of those figures forward would come pretty close to an even million by now. At any rate, far, far too many.
Doc Rock, if I’m not mistaken, I think the figures for the displaced are some two million having fled the country and another two million internally displaced. 1+2+2=5 million people killed or displaced. An awful number standing alone, but looked at as a percentage, nearly one out of five Iraqis, it is staggering.
Would somebody care to remind me why it was, exactly, that we went in there to begin with?
January 9th, 2008 at 8:23 pmAn Awful lot more than died on 9/11 …
January 9th, 2008 at 8:26 pm
2MLYTA, TP is merely reporting new figures. I think that by making it clear that these are “official Iraqi government†figures, the question of their veracity is adequately raised.
Comment by justme — January 9, 2008 @ 8:23 pm
That would be an acceptable answer IF TP also reported the Lancet numbers, which I believe they never have.
TP has a habit of only going “half way” in their reporting. They’ll report that Ron Paul was excluded from the Fox debate but not mention Dennis Kucinich being excluded from the ABC debate. They’ll report every detail of Valerie Plame’s outing but ignore the intertwined and bigger story of Sibel Edmonds.
January 9th, 2008 at 8:41 pm#35 Justme
Answer to your question: Oil.
January 9th, 2008 at 8:46 pmWhat number are the wingnuts comfortable with?
January 9th, 2008 at 8:47 pmWho is the BIGGEST terrorist? Bin Laudin or Bush?
Comment by kdoug — January 9, 2008 @ 8:26 pm
I don’t see any difference. Bush holds hands with Bin Laden’s funders and relatives.
January 9th, 2008 at 9:07 pmIt’s called Genocide, no matter the numbers. Thank you, George Bush and Dick Cheney.
January 9th, 2008 at 9:40 pm** Why is TP understating the number of deaths by a factor of almost seven??
Comment by 2MillionLightYearsToAndromeda — January 9, 2008 @ 7:51 pm
They aren’t, the million figure is crap and has been since the word go.
You who believe the Tom Hayden/Julian Bonds “Just Foreign Policy” site are either kool aid main liners or you just really suck at math. If you take all the days between the invasion and October 1 2007 and divide them into a million, that gets you 600 Iraqis killed every-single-day. On the election days, on the day they won the Asian soccer cup – every day. I called Tripmaster Monkey on this obvious incongruity and his comeback was “yeah, just goes to show how bad the media coverage is”!
Iraq is a tough situation, there is no need to exaggerate the scale of the human tragedy.
BTW, the Sage IAEA Chief El-Baradei put the figure at 70,000 last Spring. That is the official UN number, or was some months ago.
January 9th, 2008 at 9:50 pmApproximately 3 years ago on pbs’s the Mc laughlin group the number that was posted as a low estimate was 350 000 .
January 9th, 2008 at 10:01 pmInstead of cutting brush, he should be put to work digging graves.
January 9th, 2008 at 10:16 pmIn the US, freedom isn’t worth dying for; so we have to destroy our Constitution to be “safe”. But bringing freedom to Iraq is worth over 150,000 of their lives. Is it me, or is there some kinda disconnect here?
January 9th, 2008 at 11:52 pmBlackwater and the US military, spreading democracy at the point of a barrel. This is especially helpful to the dead, who would be enjoying democracy and freedom, but aren’t around to cheer and throw flowers.
January 10th, 2008 at 12:15 am“Iraq is a tough situation, there is no need to exaggerate the scale of the human tragedy.”
Nor is there any need to whitewash it, except by the guilty parties, all Republicans, all liars, all the time. If there are two million roaming the Middle east homeless and disenfranchised, and there are, then a million dead is a completely reasonable number. As an apologist for genocide, you’re setting a new low.
January 10th, 2008 at 12:16 amComment by 2MillionLightYearsToAndromeda — January 9, 2008 @ 7:51
Comment by BARTLEBEE — January 9, 2008 @ 9:10 pm
The Johns Hopkins/Lancet/ Baghdad universities study was not only praised by Opinion Research Business, but also by the British Defense Minister (their Rumsfeld) who said that it was robust, sound and trusted methodology. It was the same methodology used around the world for many years for such as the Indonesian tsunami and the Rawanda. Noone has ever questioned it before.
They had death certificates for 95% of the deaths they recorded. The figure of 655,000 is increase in violent civilians deaths up to July 2006. Extrapolating to today gives over 1,100,000 deaths. This does NOT include deaths due to destruction of clean water and healthcare, doctors fleeing country, and lack of supplies. For instance, UN study showed that one in eight Iraqi children die before the age of five (One in four in Afghanistan). There are 4,500,000 refugees and five million orphans. The country was only about 25 million to begin with.
The morgues would not have been overflowing like they were for years if the number was only 150,000.
There are psychological defense mechanisms at work here that prevent Americans from facing the extreme harm they have done to millions of innocent civilians—–and creating a fiasco, destabilizing the entire Middle East, and leaving us LESS safe. All at a cost of $2,000,000,000,000.00 to the US taxpayer.
January 10th, 2008 at 2:58 amAnd I might add:
Entirely based on LIES, in order to take control of that part of the world and its resource, OIL.
January 10th, 2008 at 3:00 am1,000,000-2,000,000: The number of Iraqis killed by Saddam Hussein with weapons sold by the USA during his bloody reign in Iraq.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 10, 2008 @ 9:55 am
There, fixed that for you.
January 10th, 2008 at 11:27 amGeorgejr was always jealous of Saddam Hussein getting to torture and murder Iraqis (yes, on our dime, and with our weapons) – so we invaded and deposed & killed him; now WE get to do the torturing & murdering directly. WELL, GOODY.
Bottom line – Iraqis are still being tortured and murdered, so the effect is the same; only the villian has changed, and it’s costing us more. But at least those profiting from it are Amurcans.
January 10th, 2008 at 4:59 pmWhy do most of you want the death tolls to be higher?
I mean, it seems you all are trying to find any excuse to BELIEVE it was a lot higher.
Not to mention that most these deaths could easily be the extremist militants themselves.
January 10th, 2008 at 5:08 pmNot to mention that most these deaths could easily be the extremist militants themselves.
Comment by gitrdone — January 10, 2008 @ 5:08 pm
I keep saying that the figure of 1,100,000 is increase in violent CIVILIAN deaths since our illegal invasion. About half are due to fire from jets, gunships and bombers—and only the US does these. Plus I was warning before the invasion that it would touch off fighting between Shia and Sunni. When Bush was warned of this, he said “I thought they were all Muslims”.
When Madelein Allbright was told of the deaths of 400,000 children before the invasion, she said “It was worth it”.
The Arab League said Saddam agreed before the invasion to leave with $1 billion and a guarantee of safety. The US said NO—because it would not leave us in control of the country.
Civilian deaths bother my side a great deal. We are only pointing out what YOUR side has done. And wishes do not cause deaths. The actions of your side did.
January 10th, 2008 at 8:01 pmGit ‘er done,
January 10th, 2008 at 8:05 pmHow could the 1.1 million deaths be extremist militants when the White House was telling us a couple years back that there were only about three thousand extremist militants. Just a few deadenders in their last throes after the mission was accomplished. Just one guy stealing a vase .