Army throws out conviction of Abu Ghraib commander.
By on Jan 11th, 2008 at 10:57 am
Army throws out conviction of Abu Ghraib commander.
“The US army has thrown out the conviction of the only officer court martialed in the Abu Ghraib scandal,” Lt. Col. Steven Jordan, and “instead given an administrative reprimand.” The order has drawn complaints from human rights activists, who are accusing the Pentagon of a “whitewash” of the scandal. “Barring any new information, the decision means no officers or civilian leaders will be held criminally responsible for the prisoner abuse.”
(HT: Newshoggers)
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Naturally.
January 11th, 2008 at 11:00 amThe U.S. military has investigated itself, and has found no evidence of wrongdoing.
Onward!
Nation of sheep
January 11th, 2008 at 11:03 amRuled by wolves
Owned by pigs
I can just see the reprimand now — “and next time, don’t take pictures — ok?”
January 11th, 2008 at 11:03 amOMFG.
January 11th, 2008 at 11:04 amThis is good news.
Support our troops!
Comment by O. Bigfoot
This just shows your criminal intent…..fool
January 11th, 2008 at 11:06 amSupport our troops!
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 11, 2008 @ 11:00 am
If you support the troops, why are you chearleading for Bush. He has done nothing but shaft the fighting men and women, the wounded, the dead and the veterans.
Republicans support the troops……. my ass.
January 11th, 2008 at 11:08 am“This is good news.
Support our troops!
Comment by O. Bigfoot
If there was any doubt that you are a true traitor to our country then this statment by you should erase any doubt….
January 11th, 2008 at 11:08 amO Bigidiot; Some of us ARE the troops.
January 11th, 2008 at 11:09 am“This is good news.
Support our troops!
Comment by O. Bigfoot
If you really supported the troops you’d be calling for a pardon for Lyndi England. Instead you support the power structure at the expense of the troops. idiot. Maybe when one of your stepkids gets his legs blown off in an unarmored humvee you’ll wake up, but I doubt it.
January 11th, 2008 at 11:10 am“Military justice is to justice what military music is to music.”
January 11th, 2008 at 11:11 amIn other news today, KBR was congratulated as the contractor of the year for supporting women’s rights and always treating them with respect and dignity.
Blackwater received honorable mention.
President Bush reportedly commented that, ‘it’s important to recognize that, as we transition to a private army, we need to support women’s rights and transparency of information.’
January 11th, 2008 at 11:11 am/snark
Maybe bigfooot will meet John McCain and he can tell him what he said. Somehow I don’t think foot would say most of the stupid things he says here if he were face to face with a human being……easy to fire stupid remarks from anonymousville
Why do you hate America bigfoot?
January 11th, 2008 at 11:12 amO Bigidiot is another Republican fluffer.
January 11th, 2008 at 11:13 amBigmouth, did you see where blackwater dropped tear gas on our troops a while back? Which group do you support?
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/10/world/middleeast/10blackwater.html?ref=worldspecial&pagewanted=print
January 11th, 2008 at 11:13 amfolks……this is what i have been saying for years now…….everyone wants impeachment, prosecution, criminal charges against all these players and rightfully so…….it ain’t going to happen. why would it? ask yourselves that when the very folks that are running the show are part of the nwo, pnac, bildaberg, carlyle, apec………ZIONISTS.
AMERICAS LOGO:
ZIONIST OWNED, NAZI RAN, FASCIST AMERICA
……and that is a fact.
January 11th, 2008 at 11:14 am“O Bigidiot is another Republican fluffer.
Comment by Uncle Ho”
Yup, he supports the troops by supporting a deserter and a draft-dodger. typical stooge.
January 11th, 2008 at 11:14 ambigfoot is a facist traitor to our country…..he supports the gestapo blackwater.
January 11th, 2008 at 11:15 amO Bigidiot; You really NEED to broaden your musical horizon.
January 11th, 2008 at 11:15 amJohn Phillip Bigfoot? OOmpah-pah-pah!
January 11th, 2008 at 11:16 amBigmouth, did you see where blackwater dropped tear gas on our troops a while back? Which group do you support?
Comment by Bobwurst — January 11, 2008 @ 11:13 am
He supports Herr Bush. You give him too many choices he gets confused.
Psst…. And you have to explain things s-l-o-w-l-y to these guys….
January 11th, 2008 at 11:17 amIt’s wartime, idiot.
Comment by O. Bigfoot
I must have missed when Congress declared war. When did that happen – Oh Bigfoot, little mind?
January 11th, 2008 at 11:18 amIt’s wartime, idiot.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 11, 2008 @ 11:07 am
I am sure you have been asked before, and I’m sure you’ve failed before, but if you could, just for the record, please supply the Declaration of War?
January 11th, 2008 at 11:18 amYes, this is good news…one less criminal, thug, crook, thief to go on GDumbya’s pardon list as he clears out of the Oval Office.
[sarcasm off]
January 11th, 2008 at 11:18 ambs…just another troll, looking for attention…here you go.
If Zionists are the problem, bs, I guess that means you’re a Hamas supporter, then. They’re the solution, right?
Wanker.
We have a fascist state, true, but the Israelis are a small part of that problem. And Israel must live, dude, whether THEIR neocon warmonger minority are troublemakers or not.
January 11th, 2008 at 11:19 amBTW: No USer–military or contractor–will EVER face maximum consequences for crimes against Iraqis in Iraq.
January 11th, 2008 at 11:20 amdid you see where blackwater dropped tear gas on our troops a while back? Which group do you support?
Comment by Bobwurst — January 11, 2008 @ 11:13 am
i wouldn’t expect anydifferent……no longer did we step foot on the iraqi soil we were shooting them with wmd……..bullet heads filled with depleted uranium. what a f. oxymoron that is.
January 11th, 2008 at 11:20 amSupport our troops!
Comment by O. Bigfoot
Even if they broke the law? I wanna know…
January 11th, 2008 at 11:21 amI have no problem with his conviction being overturned. He was convicted on a minor charge of disobeying orders. Those orders were not “don’t torture captives” but he did something even more eggregeous…his orders were not to speak out about the abuses at Abu Ghraib and he did. THIS was the only offense that warranted a court martial. Sadly this incomplete, half-assed investigation would have shown that the training and authorization of abuses was condoned by Donald Rumsfeld, Lt. General Sanchez and we’ll probably never know who else up the chain of command.
January 11th, 2008 at 11:22 amhttp://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iYm1LyoiuPfN8SGxkjTorEPW85dgD8U3IM6O0
Bigfoot, if an enemy tortures a group of American POWs should he be tried & convicted after the war is over?
January 11th, 2008 at 11:22 amhow…….by camoflauging my car with “made in china” yellow ribbons.
that is some funny stuff
January 11th, 2008 at 11:23 amThen let’s hear you put some pressure on the one person who DOES issue pardons, O. Bigfoot–George W. Bush. How about it?
This is a serious injustice, if you really think she deserves a pardon. She’s been suffering from this injustice, this need for a pardon, for YEARS. Where’s your outrage?
Dare you criticize your precious Codpiece in Chief? Dare you risk going down that road? Dare you?
Nah. Chickenhawks are the worst.
January 11th, 2008 at 11:24 amYou are wasting your time trying to reason with bigfoot…he is a known commodity. He only said that because he knew it would piss us off…He hates America and just wants destruction for us all.
January 11th, 2008 at 11:25 am#35 was a response to # 32 “support our troops”
oops
January 11th, 2008 at 11:26 amIf they’re afraid of getting punished for doing their jobs, they’ll start hesitating and a soldier who hesitates will soon be a dead soldier.
Comment by Frank M — January 11, 2008 @ 11:25 am
Yeah Frank. Those guys in that prison posed a serious threat to the Americans holding the battery cables to their nipples. If you start prosecuting them for torturing people they might stop and then where would you get your kicks?
January 11th, 2008 at 11:27 amAnent the claim “It’s wartime”:
January 11th, 2008 at 11:28 amIn the USof A, it’s always ‘wartime.’ Yesterday, today, and tomorrow. The country has had troops engaged in hostilities virtually every year since 1800.
It’s always a very, very bad idea to punish troops who are working under tremendous pressure anyway. If they’re afraid of getting punished for doing their jobs, they’ll start hesitating and a soldier who hesitates will soon be a dead soldier.
Comment by Frank M
another troll…….I managed to serve without hesitating or torturing anyone…..
January 11th, 2008 at 11:29 amAbu Ghraib is America’s Iraq invasion equivalent of My Lai in ‘Nam.
At least one officer was convicted under Courts Martial for that mass murder, but most were enlistees. That’s why many of us ‘Nam Vets were called baby killers upon returning home. We didn’t deserve that.
I believe, as posted above, that the Officer was given a reprimand to protect those higher up.
WAY higher up.
January 11th, 2008 at 11:29 amcomment by BARTLEBEE @ 11:26 am
Have noose, will travel. (:-D)
January 11th, 2008 at 11:30 amIf they’re afraid of getting punished for doing their jobs, they’ll start hesitating and a soldier who hesitates will soon be a dead soldier.
Comment by Frank M — January 11, 2008 @ 11:25 am
or worse, like those guys a couple of weeks ago, they’ll refuse to go out to get slaughtered.
January 11th, 2008 at 11:30 amThen where would the morans like “FrankM” get their jollies?
Bigfoot/Frank, if an enemy tortures a group of American POWs should he be tried & convicted after the war is over?
January 11th, 2008 at 11:32 amApparently, you don’t feel that an opinion in opposition to yours is valid? You prefer censorship? Quite the liberal you are.
Comment by O. Bigfoot
You have no credibility to judge me…..you are just a traitor to the USA
January 11th, 2008 at 11:33 amwe have met the enemy and he is us Pogo/Walt Kelly during the McCarthy era
January 11th, 2008 at 11:35 amable as
I managed to serve without hesitating or torturing anyone…..
Comment by Fred
And so do most of our troops. This is about soldiers who have felt that they’ve got to do something they normally wouldn’t do. To choose the lesser of two evils.
Comment by Frank M
why can’t we expect them to be men and Americans…..it’s not that hard…when they tell you to turn the dogs loose on someone you just say no……
January 11th, 2008 at 11:37 amI really believe that no one should have been criminally charged in the Abu Ghraib matter, and no one should be doing any prison time.
Comment by O. Bigfoot
WHY? when in fact….all facts….nothing but facts show torture was used….the very thing “waterboarding” we deemed as torture and one of bushys thousands of reasons for going to iraq when wmd didn’t hold up was to free the poor tortured iraqis…..come on now
January 11th, 2008 at 11:39 amanother troll…….I managed to serve without hesitating or torturing anyone…..
Comment by Fred — January 11, 2008 @ 11:29 am
I served 9 years and never tortured or mistreated a prisoner.
Its against the UCMJ as well as International and US law.
Tinhorn Dictators torture. Evil f_cks torture. We are Americans we are better than that. Or should be.
January 11th, 2008 at 11:40 amIt’s amazing how you people don’t seem to understand that we are not like them: 1) we were attacked and it is our right to defend ourselves by any means necessary, 2) they are religious fanatics hell-bent on converting every non-believer or killing them in the process, 3) we are a nation of laws, they hide in caves and behead their prisoners. We cannot be tried & convicted, because we’re not subject to their or anyone else’s “lawsâ€.
Comment by Frank M
Oh my god….I can’t believe you said this.
What a fool you truly are
Let me tell you trolls something. This torture bs is as un-American as anything you can do. As far as I’m concerned you are trying to destroy what America has always stood for….Freedom, Democracy, etc. everything that is good about America is betrayed by torture or defending torture.
Seriously, why do you hate America?
January 11th, 2008 at 11:40 am#56: Real men and real Americans would do anything to keep this country safe.
Comment by Frank M — January 11, 2008 @ 11:38 am
Real men and real Americans have a moral code and honor.
Something you will never understand.
January 11th, 2008 at 11:42 am#56: Real men and real Americans would do anything to keep this country safe.
Comment by Frank M
You must not be a real man then troll
January 11th, 2008 at 11:42 am#56: Real men and real Americans would do anything to keep this country safe.
Comment by Frank M — January 11, 2008 @ 11:38 am
Since you’ve already explained that your body is too precious to waste in military service, apparently this means you’re neither a real man or a real American.
January 11th, 2008 at 11:43 amThis is good news.
Support our troops!
Comment by O. Bigfoot
Blind Obedience: Befehlsnotstand and Führerprinzip “The Fuhrer’s Orders have the Force of Law”
January 11th, 2008 at 11:43 am
UCMJ
which also states you protect your homeland from foreign and DOMESTIC enemies, terrorists etc…..
January 11th, 2008 at 11:44 amTrollphucking in progress, clean up in aisle #55, please.
Note to Trolls: Please stop pissing in our house. It stinks to high heaven and may ruin the carpet.
January 11th, 2008 at 11:47 amWhy, in a nutshell, they hate us:
January 11th, 2008 at 11:47 am
There can be no crimes against humanity when you’re engaged in a struggle for your cultural and national existence.
Comment by Frank M
Now he’s quoting Adolf Eichman……I knew he was a traitor and hated America
January 11th, 2008 at 11:47 amReal men and real Americans would do anything to keep this country safe.
Comment by Frank M
Anything? Is that what you said? What does safe mean, anyway? More Americans are going to die driving to work than being injured by a terrorist. Statistically, you have a better chance of being hit by lightning – twice! – than by being injured from an attack.
You are frightened – we can tell, but you must be strong. People die in traffic, but we still drive. People die from smoking, but they still smoke. People get electrocuted, but we still use electricity.
Please don’t let your children see you so scared – it would be a huge embarrasment to them.
January 11th, 2008 at 11:48 am#62: There can be no crimes against humanity when you’re engaged in a struggle for your cultural and national existence.
Comment by Frank M — January 11, 2008 @ 11:43 am
You either are stupid as a bag of hair or a fascist white supremisist a$$. Thats the kind of crap posted on stormfront.
January 11th, 2008 at 11:48 am2) they are religious fanatics hell-bent on converting every non-believer or killing them in the process,
Comment by Frank M
yes the (p) resident of the united states is……and the rest of the envangelical, armegeddon christians are. did you just conveniantly forget the god told bushy to go to war? and that aint fanatic, crazy, loo loo looooony and he aint on the same mission….o yes he is. you find it ok because it is the usa the biggest criminal government out there. please save it.
January 11th, 2008 at 11:49 amAnyone who supports torture is a traitor to America.
January 11th, 2008 at 11:50 amIt’s always a very, very bad idea to punish troops who are working under tremendous pressure anyway.
Comment by Frank M — January 11, 2008 @ 11:25 am
Interesting point. Now when our own troops are captured, tortured, and humiliated by the enemy, we can just chalk it up to the enemy having to work “under tremendous pressure”.
Like when the dead bodies of our soldiers were being dragged through the streets in Somalia. Those doing the dragging must have been “under tremendous pressure”.
You don’t seem to understand that inhumane treatment of prisoners at Abu Ghraib was only part of the problem. When the pictures of the activities in that prison came to light, this considerably angered the very people whose “hearts and minds” we are trying to win. Which increased the danger level for the rest of our troops.
January 11th, 2008 at 11:50 amYou either are stupid as a bag of hair or a fascist white supremisist a$$. Thats the kind of crap posted on stormfront.
Comment by Wayne — January 11, 2008 @ 11:48 am
It’s always either/or with you, Wayne. Why the simplistic attitude? Can’t you see that Frank can be both stupid as a bag of hair and a fascist white supremacist?
Give him a little credit.
January 11th, 2008 at 11:52 amI thought they would throw out the stuff against Gen. Karpinski. I think they should. She took the fall for all the a-holes.
January 11th, 2008 at 11:52 amI’ll tell you what torture is……listening to the rantings of these regular trolls….
January 11th, 2008 at 11:53 amthey are religious fanatics hell-bent on converting every non-believer or killing them in the process,
Comment by Frank M
Thats what Native Americans said about the christian fanatics that invaded our land.
January 11th, 2008 at 11:53 amYou Bushbot trolls disgust me.
Obigfoot and Frank, you would be applauding the Nazis for exterminating Jews – because poppa Adolf was only keeping the Homeland safe for you, eh?
Disgusting apologist cowards.
January 11th, 2008 at 11:53 amThere can be no crimes against humanity when you’re engaged in a struggle for your cultural and national existence.
Comment by Frank M
Before 9/11, there were but a handful of ‘bad people’ wanting to hurt us. Because of bush’s folly, there are now thousands willing to die for jihad. Does that sound like a strategy which needs to be left in place? Does it bother you that Bush has created many, many more thousands of terrorists? Your king has made things worse, and you still hang on to his apron strings…
January 11th, 2008 at 11:54 amThere can be no crimes against humanity when you’re engaged in a struggle for your cultural and national existence.
Comment by Frank M
who is engaging in the struggle for cultural and national existence? NOT the USA. the iraqis and the rest of the middle east have been. you spoiled american goes to bed in a warm house, no bombs and bullets to dodge, and a bowl of french vanilla icecream.
if iraq invaded the USA what would lyou do? lay down your arms and pray franticly.
January 11th, 2008 at 11:57 amThe idea that our military men and women could do jail time for merely performing what they believe to be their duties is detrimental to military morale.
Comment by O. Bigfoot
You forgot to mention what asking them to torture other human beings would do to moral…….you must have run out of stuff…heh.
Ms England doesn’t seem to be doin all that well these days since she made the concious decision to be involved in the crimes commited at abu ghraib
January 11th, 2008 at 11:57 amThe idea that our military men and women could do jail time merely because liberal politicians and liberal journalists blow a situation way out of proportion, and an example must be made, is even worse.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 11, 2008 @ 11:53 am
Their duty is to protect the Constitution, follow the UMJC, US Law and International law.
If a soldier violates any of the above they do go to trial and go to jail if convicted of a serious offence.
Idiot.
January 11th, 2008 at 11:57 am#62 – more “modern” history – this is exactly what the racist Nationalist gov in South Africa said. Aparthied was a crime against humanity!
January 11th, 2008 at 11:58 amBah, UCMJ rather
January 11th, 2008 at 11:58 amif iraq invaded the USA what would lyou do? lay down your arms and pray franticly.
Comment by bs — January 11, 2008 @ 11:57 am
I would be cleaning carbon from my rifle every night.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:00 pmThe idea that our military men and women could do jail time for merely performing what they believe to be their duties is detrimental to military morale.
Comment by O. Bigfoot
believe? are you kidding me. when did believe or think so or maybe become the standard for tortoring and killing someone. i am not suggesing our privates, corporal, specialists, sgts are responsible for the decision making. the CO’s and the dictator in chief occupying my whitehouse and the commanders should be sent to their slow death.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:02 pmWhen our middle eastern enemies capture our troops, humiliate, and then torture them, our troops are not left alive to talk about it.
Only forensic evidence is left to tell the tale.
Comment by O. Bigfoot
More evidence that bigfoot is a traitor to America. He wants to compare our torturing to theirs….a comparison if you will. Real Americans do not condone torture…why is that so hard for you nazi’s to understand…get with the program if you want to be considered an American.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:03 pmI would be cleaning carbon from my rifle every night.
Comment by Wayne — January 11, 2008
i figured the average would say that but o’ bigfoot to who it was aimed at im sure it would be different
January 11th, 2008 at 12:03 pmi figured the average would say that but o’ bigfoot to who it was aimed at im sure it would be different
Comment by bs — January 11, 2008 @ 12:03 pm
He would claim a religious deferment and need to change his diaper.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:06 pmThats what you expect the Iraqi’s to do.
Comment by BARTLEBEE — January 11, 2008 @ 12:03 pm
that was a question to o bigfoot.
i expect them to do what any sane person to do pick up a cache’ and bombs away just as i would do.
i didn’t put who it was for so my bad. i think by my posts everyone knows how i fee bartlebee
January 11th, 2008 at 12:06 pmEven the Israelies are capable of facist behavior…it is something to guard against. It is a charactor flaw, something to be avoided.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:07 pmMaking inane assertions that I would support genocide is pretty disgusting of you.
Comment by O. Bigfoot
When you are such a strong supporter of torture then it is not a big jump in logic to assume that you might support any kind of inhuman behavior…..
Why do you hate America?
January 11th, 2008 at 12:08 pmMaking inane assertions that I would support genocide is pretty disgusting of you.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 11, 2008 @ 12:03 pm
You support torture. I think thats pretty damn disgusting of you.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:09 pmWhen our middle eastern enemies capture our troops, humiliate, and then torture them, our troops are not left alive to talk about it.
Only forensic evidence is left to tell the tale.
Comment by O. Bigfoot
what are we doing bigfoot to warrant such behavior? um…..er….let me think…..o thats right we invaded and occupied their land for oil, dominance, control, one ruler, one money…….the NWO sound familiar and lets not forget all in the name of zionism
January 11th, 2008 at 12:10 pmComment by O. Bigfoot
we have killed more INNOCENT people over there than the 9/11 fatalities and our troop deaths combined……so please
January 11th, 2008 at 12:11 pmi am not suggesing our privates, corporal, specialists, sgts are responsible for the decision making. the CO’s and the dictator in chief occupying my whitehouse and the commanders should be sent to their slow death.
Comment by bs — January 11, 2008 @ 12:02 pmâ€
Another professed liberal espousing their hatred for the military and calling for the death of our elected leaders, no surprise here.
Shameful.
Comment by O. Bigfoot
I will suggest it….anyone caught being involved in torture is guilty of criminal behavior….military doesn’t have brigs because there are no criminals in the military. I would charge them if they were a private or a general…period.
anything less would be Un-American and shameful
January 11th, 2008 at 12:13 pmthe last words out of the mouths of Bigidiot and Frankie as they fall through the trap door of the gallows will be “befehl is befehl” (orders are orders).
January 11th, 2008 at 12:15 pmHave a nice trip, see you in the fall you Nazi pigs.
Do you prefer to make this personal, Wayne, rather than discuss the issue at hand?
Comment by O. Bigfoot
Aw com on foot….you want to make this personal….as long as you can hide behind your computer screen and not see any actual, real people. You are a coward and a traitor. For you to call anyone else down for not sticking with the issues is a joke of grand proportions…..fluf this dickhead.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:15 pmAnother professed liberal espousing their hatred for the military and calling for the death of our elected leaders, no surprise here.
Shameful.
Comment by O. Bigfoot
liberal? i didn’t say i was liberal. there you go trying to put folks in a group. i don’t believe in the sectors of political groups as i don’t believe in sectors of religion. im far from a sheeple who need to adopt, adapt, and adjust to someone elses ideas or theories. does anyone think on there own without joining a group and adhereing to what they say? including you bigfoot…..so i suppose you belong to a political group like the riechwing
January 11th, 2008 at 12:16 pm124 Sorry foot, Iran has never invaded anyone……
January 11th, 2008 at 12:18 pmComment by O. Bigfoot
since you think you know but have no idea….if you commit atrocities that this imperialistic, demented, dictator has (you call the president of the united states) upon humans that result in death, you are most certainly right.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:21 pmYou seem to have unwittingly contradicted your own point.
When our middle eastern enemies capture our troops, humiliate, and then torture them, our troops are not left alive to talk about it.
Only forensic evidence is left to tell the tale.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 11, 2008 @ 11:58 am
While you’re nitpicking the details of my comparison, you’re missing the point I was making. I won’t even address the absurd notion that Abu Ghraib wasn’t a big deal because nobody died.
Remember how angry we were when the dead bodies of our soldiers were dragged through the street? We felt it was degrading, disrespectful, and insulting. And rightly so. And we were mad as h*ll — the emotional reaction in every American who saw that was to fry the bastards who were doing that.
Understand that this was the same reaction the Muslim world had when they saw the Abu Ghraib pictures. No, we didn’t kill anybody at Abu Ghraib, but their anger level was probably about the same as if we had. I doubt if they saw this as a situation were our soldiers were “under tremendous pressure”. It would have been one thing if we had offended our enemy. But we angered the very people we were trying to win over. It was like pouring gasoline on a fire we were trying to extinguish. Bad idea — the military personnel responsible for that didn’t help our cause any.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:24 pmIt simply doesn’t matter what you call yourself. You will be considered liberal by me for your support of liberal causes and the ideals of the modern liberal movement. I don’t care if you feel the need to join a group. Call yourself independent, whatever. If you don’t support the ideals of the conservative cause, and outrightly oppose them, you are someting other than a conservative. And liberal is a good enough term for me to use.
Comment by O. Bigfoot
That makes you a Nazi by all counts……how do you like being called a Nazi by the way? Does it even offend you?
January 11th, 2008 at 12:25 pmour middle eastern enemies treat their own people they deem to be opposition the very same way?
Comment by O. Bigfoot
our middle eastern enemies….lol….we don’t have enemies…israel does and we fight israels fight. it’s our POLICIES do lyou get it…probably not. which are israels policies, the zionists you have no clue and that is sad. the middle east as nothing wrong with the americans….the government yes because it is ran by israel(zionists).
January 11th, 2008 at 12:27 pm128. missmolly,
January 11th, 2008 at 12:27 pmI don’t think these trolls care about that. In fact I think that is their key objective, to be hated, yea dispised.
NO surprise, no accountability.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:28 pm128 Actually we did kill some of the at abu…..
January 11th, 2008 at 12:28 pmNo, we didn’t kill anybody at Abu Ghraib, but their anger level was probably about the same as if we had.
Comment by missmolly — January 11, 2008 @ 12:24 pm
Actually, you DID kill someone at Abu Ghraib.
Prisoner allegedly killed by CIA at Abu Ghraib.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:29 pmAnd the songs they’ll be singing will be about Bush and Cheney, and Rummy, and the rest at the top who actually ordered all that torture crap.
Comment by BARTLEBEE — January 11, 2008 @ 11:21 am
I’m so glad you brought this up! Sorry as I’ve not read the rest of the thread, but do want to comment on this:
The HBO special, Ghosts of Abu Ghraib, exposes what a cluster fck the situation was. Basically, the higher ups (we are talking Donald Rumsfeld here) wanted these prisoners interrogated in the most torturous way, but of course, they would not take responsibility for it. Just do what you have to do, no paper trail. The guards were never given clear objectives, as well as proper restraint (remember, these were the soldiers who witnessed first hand battles).
January 11th, 2008 at 12:29 pmWhat happened at Abu Ghraib was pathetic. I, as an American and a Christian, held my head down in shame because of this administration and it’s torturous policies.
What’s even more pathetic is that they’re are certain few who applaud, ney, support such actions (from the bravery of being out of range). To those I say BITE ME! You pathetic little snot nose brats. It’s bad enough we are losing our brave men and women (for oil), but to stand behind an administration that constantly rapes the Constitution, and tortures other humans, is very un-Christian, and very un-American.
JWNBP! (Jesus Would Not Be Proud)
Bigidiot IS a Nazi. He firmly believes that if the jackboots fit(they do), then goose-step in them(he does).
January 11th, 2008 at 12:30 pmyou have NO idea what i support. that is what you are assuming. i don’t support any of this. I AM AN AMERICAN, USDA APPROVED. i don’t agree with everything liberal, nor republican. i have my own mind and my own beliefs that don’t match up to either. now what…..
call me nazi…..doesn’t offend me because my views are nothing of the such. im secure and dont need to be defensless over baseless crap especially coming from you and have shared nothing of such here and ……..come with something better
January 11th, 2008 at 12:32 pmPresident Bush is the President of the United States, duly elected. You may choose to ignore that fact, but that does not change the fact.
Comment by O. Bigfoot
This is not a fact….in fact it is a lie…..that’s the fact.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:33 pmMr. Bill Clinton was a duly elected President. bush was not elected, it was taken out of the electoral process and he was appointed……
January 11th, 2008 at 12:34 pmThe Torturer-In-Chief should be the one on trial for war crimes anyway, go all the way to the top first.
Bush/Cheney
Hague Trials ‘09
Buck Fush
January 11th, 2008 at 12:35 pm141 then why did you respond to that…..I think you care.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:36 pmPresident Bush is the President of the United States, duly elected. You may choose to ignore that fact, but that does not change the fact.Comment by O. Bigfoot
he is not the president……..popular vote proved that. bushies nazi father paved his way.
that is NOT a fact. the popular vote went to gore and this is so old and all but you 27% ers know it….you all stole it and supressed votes and that is a fact. come with something factual
January 11th, 2008 at 12:36 pmBush is as illigitimate as a pres as Strom’s children.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:38 pmI said bush is an appointee, he was not elected. Trolls saying different don’t change that…..
January 11th, 2008 at 12:39 pmSee post 145.
Comment by O. Bigfoot —
factless, try again…….
January 11th, 2008 at 12:42 pmAmericans would never have elected bush so he had to be appointed. he has taken this country down the road to ruin…..I hope a good democrat can come along and fix some of it before it’s too late.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:42 pm“Bush is as illigitimate as a pres as Strom’s children.
Comment by Fred — January 11, 2008 @ 12:38 pmâ€
That sounds pretty racist to me, Fred.
Comment by O. Bigfoot
Why?
Be specific.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:43 pm“Bush is as illigitimate as a pres as Strom’s children.
Comment by Fred — January 11, 2008 @ 12:38 pmâ€
That sounds pretty racist to me, Fred.
Comment by O. Bigfoot
The only racism in it is strom…..who was an admitted racist….who had a child with a black woman….nice try but you seem to be off your feed a little…..
January 11th, 2008 at 12:45 pmPresident Bush is the President of the United States, duly elected. You may choose to ignore that fact, but that does not change the fact.
Comment by O. Bigfoot
January 11th, 2008 at 12:47 pm
“When faced with facts that refute their assertions, merely ignore the facts.â€
Another liberal trait that helps me identify you.
Comment by O. Bigfoot
Did someone say something?
January 11th, 2008 at 12:47 pmThat sounds pretty racist to me, Fred.
Comment by O. Bigfoot
racist…..how, what did he say? you are pulling anything out the air and starting crap. strom did leave his children behind…..no strom is the bigot for having racist views and then laying with a black woman . get it right
January 11th, 2008 at 12:47 pmAnother liberal trait that helps me identify you.
Comment by O. Bigfoot
you mean like facism and racism helps us identify you conservatrolls
January 11th, 2008 at 12:48 pm“When faced with facts that refute their assertions, merely ignore the facts.â€
Another liberal trait that helps me identify you.
Comment by O. Bigfoot
what facts have you stated? identify me? funny you are….now your a profiler…….not even close to a liberal
January 11th, 2008 at 12:50 pm165 Doesn’t make any sense……oh, that’s a post by bigfoot…sorry
January 11th, 2008 at 12:51 pm“Another liberal trait that helps me identify you.”
Comment by O. Bigfoot
And with that statement, O Bigfoot officially announces his intellectual bankruptcy. He will be having a yard sale this weekend, to defray the cost of filing. Come early, and you might get a good deal on his moral certitude, which he’s kept in excellent condition, polished to a high gloss. Or perhaps you might just snap up his integrity for a low price – it’s still in the original box.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:52 pmComment by BARTLEBEE
““Bush is as illigitimate as a pres as Strom’s children
Comment by Fred
what was racist about that?
January 11th, 2008 at 12:52 pmThe arab Muslims are the neocons Jews.
Comment by BARTLEBEE
and the Jews Jews
January 11th, 2008 at 12:53 pmComment by Frank M — January 11, 2008 @ 11:36 am
“It’s amazing how you people don’t seem to understand that we are not like them:”
– It would be a lot easier if you would explain who this mysterious “they” and “them” are. Do you mean all Muslims? All Arabs? Or are you just talking about the relatively small group of fanatics who have warped their religion into a crackpot fantasy and who wish to do us harm? If so, then yes — we are not like them. And neither is the vast majority of the world — including the vast majority of the Middle East.
“1) we were attacked and it is our right to defend ourselves by any means necessary,”
– Yes, we were attacked. And we do have the right to defend ourselves. However, we were NOT attacked by Iraq — something that has long ago been established. “Defending” ourselves by invading countries who have never attacked us isn’t a good way to win friends and influence people.
“2) they are religious fanatics hell-bent on converting every non-believer or killing them in the process,”
– Again, please define who “they” are. If you are talking about all Muslims, you’re wrong. If you are talking about a very small percentage of Muslims who are violent extremists, this doesn’t justify actions that p!ss off all Muslims.
“3) we are a nation of laws, they hide in caves and behead their prisoners. We cannot be tried & convicted, because we’re not subject to their or anyone else’s “lawsâ€.”
– Except that if we are a nation of laws, we should at least respect and be subject to our own. But laws don’t really apply to the Abu Ghraib situation as much as COMPLETE STUPIDITY does. What we did at Abu Ghraib angered the entire Middle East (you know — the people we are trying to influence) and created a lot more Al Qaeda recruits. Not a good move.
Comment by Frank M — January 11, 2008 @ 11:36 am
January 11th, 2008 at 12:53 pmFor those who say that what happened in Germany under the Nazis can’t happen here. Consider this a cautionary tale. Nazis are already among us.
Witness the defense of lawless behavior by O Bigidiot and Frankie. They probably would shove the “enemies of the Reich” into gas chambers by the millions to “protect the homeland”.
They probably think the mass murders at Me Lai should get the Medal of Honor as well.
Beware!
January 11th, 2008 at 12:53 pmGladly. The fact that Strom had a child, or children, with a black woman in no way makes the child(ren) illegitimate. It is not only insignificant to our discussion, but it is insignificant in fact.
Comment by O. Bigfoot
You are the first to mention the woman’s race. “Illigitimate” means they were born out of wedlock.
You did know that, didn’t you?
January 11th, 2008 at 12:53 pmNot that I read O.Bigfoot(Lil’ Brain)’s posts, but #165 caught my glimpse.
I’m still laughing.
Let’s define illegitimate, shall we?
not recognized as lawful offspring; specifically : born of parents not married to each other
Does it hurt to be that stupid?
January 11th, 2008 at 12:54 pmThe arab Muslims are the neocons Jews.
Comment by BARTLEBEE
this is twice ironic because the Jews are actually Arab too….only difference is religion……and the Iranians are not Arab at all.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:55 pmActually, you DID kill someone at Abu Ghraib.
Prisoner allegedly killed by CIA at Abu Ghraib.
Comment by Luis M — January 11, 2008 @ 12:29 pm
Ah. OK, I stand corrected. I’m sure this didn’t sit real well with the locals, either.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:57 pm180 yeah missmolly, they put him in a bag and he suffocated…..we’re so proud…
January 11th, 2008 at 1:00 pm…….let’s not forget they are jew first with their allegiance to israel and the zionist movement.
January 11th, 2008 at 1:01 pmAmericans liberate and close prisons like Abu Graib.
We don’t run them.
Comment by BARTLEBEE
That’s conservatism for ya
January 11th, 2008 at 1:01 pmComment by BARTLEBEE
my bad, i gotcha
January 11th, 2008 at 1:02 pmAmericans liberate and close prisons like Abu Graib.
We don’t run them.
Comment by BARTLEBEE
That’s conservatism for ya
yeah….things like this didn’t happen as long as we had an elected pres. Only after bush was appointed……
January 11th, 2008 at 1:04 pmO Bigfoot does it again.
In his rush to nail progressives as racists, and by implication, hypocrites, he shoots from the hip – and hits his own big, fat, clown-shoe!
He’s the TP comedy relief, while waiting for a new thread…
Honk! Honk!
January 11th, 2008 at 1:10 pm.
The Army overthrew their own Court Marshal?
.
January 11th, 2008 at 1:14 pmO Bigfoot does it again.
In his rush to nail progressives as racists, and by implication, hypocrites, he shoots from the hip – and hits his own big, fat, clown-shoe!
He’s the TP comedy relief, while waiting for a new thread…
Honk! Honk!
Comment by barfly
Yeah, you got to remember that conservatrolls aren’t used to talking about racial things outside of their group so thier not real good at not making dumb statements like that. Funny to think about a black republican….seems like an oxymoron to me……they are such racists.
January 11th, 2008 at 1:14 pm.
It’s wartime, idiot.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 11, 2008 @ 11:07 am
Your argument asserts that in this “WAR TIME” crimes are to ignored. So then, why didn’t “I was following orders,” wash during the Nuremberg Trials then. The orders were given during “war time”.
COWARDS argue for immoral justice, for cowards depend upon immorality to justify their weakness.
.
January 11th, 2008 at 1:19 pm“Funny to think about a black republican….seems like an oxymoron to me……they are such racists.”
Comment by Fred
Remember the “House Black Republican Caucus”- I mean, JC Watts of Oklahoma? He’s now a minister. Perhaps it’s religious faith that gets them over the hurdle of their party’s past racism.
January 11th, 2008 at 1:20 pmPeriod.
Comment by BARTLEBEE — January 11, 2008 @ 1:25 pm
I agree.
But even if the US were at war -rather than an occupier- torture would still be inexcusable, since torture constitutes a war crime.
BigFoot doesn’t know or care to remember the Nuremberg trials…
January 11th, 2008 at 1:41 pmJOIN SCOOTER LIBBY!
January 11th, 2008 at 1:50 pmJOIN SCOOTER LIBBY!
Comment by sacopenapa
you mean jail him?
January 11th, 2008 at 1:52 pmTripe. Bullshit. All of it. And a window into their soul.
>It’s amazing how you people don’t seem to understand that we
>are not like them: 1) we were attacked and it is our right to defend
We and them. The stereotypical black and white view of the world. It’s wrong if They do it. It’s right if We do it. The hypocrisy of this position escapes no one but them.
The only silver lining to this particular cloud is that they are now exposing themselves as unreasonable. The bad thing is that 30% of the population thinks there is no such thing as unreasonable. The good thing is that 70% thinks there is, and Bush has hit that territory. Our trolls notwithstanding, this is an aspect of neoconservatism that needs to be exposed to everyone, preferably by reasonable Republican candidates and all Democratic Candidates.
>ourselves by any means necessary, 2) they are religious fanatics
Frank M, listen to yourself. ‘Any Means Necessary’. Have you no soul? Only a soulless coward would advocate ‘any means necessary’. Adopting a mindset that might makes right is an affront to everything this country stands for. But the really sad thing is that you have no idea that you’re sinking your own ship. Ask yourself why the Democrats had twice as many caucus-goers as your side did.
>hell-bent on converting every non-believer or killing them in the
>process,
So. They used to be godless Communists who aspired to conquer our nation and force us to give up our God and our Guns and our Capitalism. We did some bad things, but all in all, we only would use nukes if attacked with nukes, and even though we had a situation many times worse than what you scream we’re in right now with the Cuban Missile Crisis, with alot more at stake (such as the continued viability of the Earth if a full scale nuclear exchange broke out), and saner heads prevailed. I notice a theme throughout history. Everything your group touches turns to shit…
>3) we are a nation of laws, they hide in caves and behead
>their prisoners. We cannot be tried & convicted, because we’re not
>subject to their or anyone else’s “lawsâ€.
Wow. Just…wow. Such vile bigotry, on display for the whole WORLD to see. I tell you what. Drive to Canada and rob a bank. Run back to the States. See how fast the States extradites you back to Canada to answer for your crimes.
You act like every single Middle-Easterner is a savage, loaded up to the gills with TNT, just looking for an excuse to blow himself and everyone around him to Kingdom Come. At least we can see your nasty nature displayed so proudly. Keep spreading that around. There may be a few ignorant Moderates and Independents left. Drive them into the Democrat’s arms.
Trolling or truely believing? It doesn’t matter. Either way, this…thing masquerading around as a human being that calls itself Frank M is a vile, disgusting thing that makes me sorry to be a member of Humanity.
January 11th, 2008 at 2:12 pm“We’re at war.”
Oh, well, then, we’ll dutifully go when drafted–or even answer the all to volunteer.
We’ll submit to rationing, drive less, consume less.
We’ll submit to the increased war taxes.
We’ll publicize and honor our dead soldiers when they return home.
We’ll stand with the president at our troops’ funerals.
But Bush has not institute a draft–he has not even issued a call to enlist.
There’s no rationing, and Bush has told us to consume more.
Bush cuts taxes (for his base) and hides the cost of the war by borrowing overseas.
We are not to see the returning coffins. When a news program decides to honor the names of the fallen, the Bush-supporting network owner tries to top it.
George Bush has not attended the funeral of a single fallen soldier.
No, the only think we are asked to do for the war effort is not to criticize the President.
Because to George Bush that’s the only important thing.
January 11th, 2008 at 2:58 pmThe only thing George Bush cares about in this war is that it makes him immune from criticism,
That’s why this war is such a disaster. He doesn’t care.
Comment by pbg
It’s also a disaster because it’s not really a war…congress has not declared a war….
January 11th, 2008 at 3:26 pmWow, I just realized how wrong I was on three fronts when I was in the Army:
1) When I was guarding some PDF prisoners during Just Cause, I should have just hooked up their genitals to the battery in my Humvee. Oh sure, they were more than willing to talk before that, because we actually treated them humanely, but apparently physical torture is a lot better at getting someone to “loosen up” than giving them an MRE.
2) When I went through PLDC, it was constantly hammered into my head that every level of leadership is responsible for the soldiers under them. Allowing your soldiers to conduct torture against prisoners, even if not directly ordered, is considered being delerlict in your duties. Not true, I am led to believe. As long as you can make your orders ambigous, you don’t have to worry about being prosecuted.
3) Even though we were expected to face off against some pretty nasty people, it was reinforced into our psyche from Basic until you got out of the Army that you were still expected to follow basic fundamentals of behavior (don’t shoot civilians, don’t unnecessarily destroy property, don’t torture prisoners), because WE ARE AMERICANS. We are better than that (The Nazis and Japanese used tactics and policies that are still considered horrendous and crimes against humanity, and we still kicked their asses).
Obviously, you are to abandon such silly notions, as now the first rule of war is that there are no rules.
Serioulsy, another thing I learned in the Army is that while the vast majority of those serving are good people, you are going to get some bad apples. Unfortunately, lack of command and control not only lets those apples commit some pretty bad stuff, but influences others around them, when they see no consequences for actions, to do the same.
January 11th, 2008 at 3:26 pmbecause WE ARE AMERICANS. We are better than that (The Nazis and Japanese used tactics and policies that are still considered horrendous and crimes against humanity, and we still kicked their asses).
Obviously, you are to abandon such silly notions, as now the first rule of war is that there are no rules.
Comment by RickS
I do not want to see that change…..I agree with you 100%. We are Americans….we are better than that….a few animals do not represent America.
January 11th, 2008 at 3:34 pmUnderstand how many Germans felt? If we’re not actively engaged in opposing war crimes, we are accessories.
January 11th, 2008 at 3:35 pmSouthern Ass; it was NOT just a few bad apples, it’s widespread and systematic-torture, brutality, rape, murder, atrocities. Officially “we don’t torture”- wink, wink, nod, nod. Unofficially- anything goes. I can not condone anything of this sort being done in America’s name. Nor should you-if you have any shred of decency.
January 11th, 2008 at 5:06 pmTypical wingnuttery,
“Quit pointing out our lawlessness!!!!”
Wah, the focus was on Abu BECAUSE OF THE TORTURE, MORON.
Here’s some advice: If you don’t want people focusing on your negatives, DON’T CREATE ANY.
January 11th, 2008 at 6:21 pmWhen did Blackwater drop teargas on our troops. I am keeping a file on Blackwater and remember an army official telling about the disgrace of blackwater holding guns on our troops and making them lie down in the dirt.
why doesn’t the military brass do something to defend our troops from blackwater???
Peter Pace said clearly and courageously that anyone abusing prisoners should be stopped then and there by any member of the armed forces. Israelis did much of the abuse with israeli contractor CACI whose offices are in the USA. We have been highjacked by israel and ziocons and need to take our country and our military back.
January 11th, 2008 at 8:29 pm….a few animals do not represent America.
Comment by Fred — January 11, 2008 @ 3:34 pm
And yet the story of Abu Ghrab is all we heard about for months. A few bad soldiers set the tone for the rest of the Iraq War. And that is not fair for all of the great soldiers. Instead of defining the heroics and great things the the good soldiers did for the citizens of Iraq, the focous was on Abu Ghrab. And the fact most of you don’t get that, makes me question your judgement. Next time you see a soldier, ask him/her what was the most embarassing thing that happend in Iraq, and if you could somehow take it back, what would it be? “The idiots at Abu Ghrabâ€
Comment by Southern Man
I’ll have to disagree with you on this. The story went on and on because it was widespread and apparently not only allowed to happen but at the very least encouraged.
The stink that won’t go away though is because absolutely no attempt to bring justice to the situation was apparently ever on the table……that’s why it wouldn’t go away.
January 11th, 2008 at 9:58 pm