Bush: If I ran for President, I’d be an ‘agent of change.’
In an interview with NBC aired today, President Bush dismissed the notion that presidential candidates’ messages of “change” are a rebuke of his presidency. Bush said he would do the same right now if he were one of them:
Q: Do you see this message of change as anything other than a rejection of your presidency?
BUSH: No, listen. If you’re running for office, you can’t run for office and not say ‘I am an agent of change.’ It’s just American politics. If I were running for office at this point, I’d be saying, ‘Vote for me. I’m gonna be an agent of change.’
Watch it:
UPDATE: Tim Grieve notes that Bush 41 thought differently than his son. At the Republican National Convention in 1988, George H.W. Bush said:
Now, after two great terms, a switch will be made. But when you have to change horses in midstream, doesn’t it make sense to switch to one who’s going the same way?
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I think he means to change his underwear.
January 11th, 2008 at 3:39 pm“Vote for me, the idiot puppet-boy! I’ll say whatever needs to be said for the sake of my party.”
January 11th, 2008 at 3:40 pmHe’s a caricature of himself and he doesn’t realize it.
At this point, I can’t imagine why anyone would consider attending Yale. If this is a product of an Ivy League education, I’ll stick with DePaul. Proof positive that less is more.
Alas, revealing in that Bush was a HUGE panderer saying whatever it took to whomever he was speaking to get what he got. That’s basically what he’s saying here. People want to hear change so change I will give them.
January 11th, 2008 at 3:41 pmHe’s right. It’s sound political strategy.
January 11th, 2008 at 3:42 pmEven if you’re running after two terms of a popular president, you still run on change. Just not so much. You don’t want people to long for the last president; you want them to get excited about you. So you say you’re like the popular president, only BETTER!
In this case, the last president is Bush. And he’s craptastic. So of course it’s wise to be an “agent of change.”
If you consider utter and complete chaos change, then sure.
January 11th, 2008 at 3:42 pmChimpy seems not to understand the context of everyone’s “CHANGE” slogans. It’s a change from YOU, Bushie!
January 11th, 2008 at 3:42 pmNow this one is for the books. For 7 years this idiot has lied and stolen will saying stay the course no matter the lies or the lives lost. We see the economy drop to a recession under this idiot yet he even has the nerve to open is lying mouth about change. Hell is to good for him and Cheney. To take the once great United States of America and make it like the rest of his fail business is disgraceful. What’s worse is the American people, the Churches and the Media that help him do it.
At lease Americans know that John Kerry wouldn’t have been much better as he sold a good lie, just like
January 11th, 2008 at 3:43 pmGeorge W. Bush.
After another re-read, I think maybe he doesn’t even get the fact that people running for ‘change’ are running away from him at a dead sprint.
He’s utterly clueless. Someone, please, donate him a clue.
January 11th, 2008 at 3:44 pmWow — even Dumbya doesn’t support his own policies! Quick — somebody tell the 23%ers so they can start bashing him for being unpatriotic by questioning the Cheney government…
January 11th, 2008 at 3:44 pmThe rise of Bush and the Republicans in the 21st century directly parallels the growing use of electronic voting machines and electronic vote counting machines. Bush and the Republicans are just very sore losers who finally decided to start stealing elections electronically and thus, magically, become “winners”… So quick, so easy, so invisible, it’s perfect fraud until Americans finally wise up and return to hand-counted paper ballots in their elections.
For details on the New Hampshire monkey business in the Diebold “counting” of the votes in the Democratic Primary see bradblog.com and opednews.com.
Cheers.
January 11th, 2008 at 3:44 pm‘Craptastic’?
I believe we have our word of the day; maybe the week…
Thanks, Wilco!
January 11th, 2008 at 3:44 pmCraptainMantastic?
CraptonMantastic?
See what you did, Wilco?
January 11th, 2008 at 3:46 pmHe’s utterly clueless. Someone, please, donate him a clue.
Comment by RUCerious — January 11, 2008 @ 3:44 pm
He did get a clue, about a month before 911. All he did with it was read “My Pet Goat”.
January 11th, 2008 at 3:46 pmWilco, I think one reason Gore “lost” in 2000 was that he didn’t align himself closely enough with the Clinton era. He bought the Repubs’ meme of moral failings and didn’t trust the American people to choose the continuation of Clinton’s successes. He ran away from his strongest campaign asset — the general satisfaction with the previous eight years governance, of which he’d been a part.
January 11th, 2008 at 3:48 pmAs usual, Bush sounds like a buffoon. Nobody running for re-election to the office they already hold runs on “change” — in fact, Reagan made the phrase “stay the course” quite popular in 1984.
However, he does have a point worth noting — one that’s kind of getting lost in the shuffle. Virtually all candidates for president from both parties are running on “change”, and use this word as much as possible in their stump speeches.
Unfortunately, not all candidates give any detail as to what “change” they would bring to the job. I’m far more interested in the actual changes a new president would bring than I am in whether a candidate is dissing the current president’s record or not.
January 11th, 2008 at 3:49 pmZimzone, you are welcome.
Anytime, my friend. Anytime.
For those who like calling others “nazis”, try “hitleriffic!”
January 11th, 2008 at 3:49 pmAs in, “Regarding Candidate A’s deathcamp policy, I dare say he is utterly hitleriffic!”
What happened to being a compassionate conservative ? Does compassionate mean you feel real sorry for the families of the 3919 men and women you murdered in Iraq? Or how about being just real sorry about the wounded men and women who believed in you?
January 11th, 2008 at 3:49 pmAfter reading this article I heard Sam Kinnison screaming, “Oh, Oh! I’m in Hell!” I never understood, nor ever shall understand, how this waste of a suit ever got re-elected in 2004. Thank God for the 22nd amendment and come on January 20th, 2009!
January 11th, 2008 at 3:49 pmBein’ a sociopath is hard work. Now let’s joke about the Palestinians trying to get through Israeli roadblocks.
-Kommander Coo-Coo Bananas
January 11th, 2008 at 3:51 pmSo, Bush would be an agent of change. Sounds like that even he would run away from his own record.
Or else he needs his diaper changed-after 8 years of shit.
January 11th, 2008 at 3:51 pmWow, that’s the 1st thing chimpy’s said that I can agree with. He Sure did change everything… FOR THE WORSE!
The problem is now the next one has to spend 8 years trying to fix his mess! (assuming Edwards or Obama gets 2 terms;)
And then we’ll only be close to back where we started from 8 years ago!
January 11th, 2008 at 3:52 pmHe did get a clue, about a month before 911. All he did with it was read “My Pet Goatâ€.
Comment by Nature Rules — January 11, 2008 @ 3:46 pm
True, I was hoping someone would donate the clue, wrapped in barbed wire, as a back alley prostate exam.
January 11th, 2008 at 3:52 pmObama: Impeachment is not acceptable
WASHINGTON (AP) — Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama laid out list of political shortcomings he sees in the Bush administration but said he opposes impeachment for either President George W. Bush or Vice President Dick Cheney.
Obama said he would not back such a move, although he has been distressed by the “loose ethical standards, the secrecy and incompetence” of a “variety of characters” in the administration.
“There’s a way to bring an end to those practices, you know: vote the bums out,” the presidential candidate said, without naming Bush or Cheney. “That’s how our system is designed.”
…“I think you reserve impeachment for grave, grave breeches, and intentional breeches of the president’s authority,” he said.
“I believe if we began impeachment proceedings we will be engulfed in more of the politics that has made Washington dysfunction,” he added. “We would once again, rather than attending to the people’s business, be engaged in a tit-for-tat, back-and-forth, non-stop circus.”
** Serious question…How do you Obama supporters feel about this? Is he clueless, unaware or is this simply political posturing? In any case this is NOT acceptable to me.
January 11th, 2008 at 3:52 pmAgent of Change. He always wanted to be an agent. Get to wear that cool earpiece and sunglasses.
Craptastic is a great word. I’m sure we can think of others.
Wonderbull. Genuinistic, Decisivish. for starters
January 11th, 2008 at 3:53 pmidiot
January 11th, 2008 at 3:53 pmSomehow the scene from Blazing Saddles comes to mind.
The one where Sherrif Bart, after pulling the gun on himself, threatens to blow himself away, and the townswomen cries,
“Won’t someone please, help the poor man!”
January 11th, 2008 at 3:54 pmre #3: Go, Blue Demons!
And the rest of the panderers will do like Dubya, promise change - then do exactly as they please or are told.
January 11th, 2008 at 3:54 pmralph, you’re right but he couldn’t run as a simple continuation of Clinton. He’d look spineless and without character. Every candidate has to establish him/herself as an individual, separate from whomever they may or may not be allied with.
January 11th, 2008 at 3:55 pmWould you vote for someone whose campaign slogan is “Just like Clinton!”
You think Romney’s pandering is bad? That guy’s every world would seem like pandering.
But Gore absolutely shouldn’t have turned away from Clinton. He should have embraced him, established his support, and still confirmed he was his own man who wanted to build on Clinton’s legacy. So he tells America he’ll keep all the good stuff, but work on getting better stuff.
Just carry a cross and a machine gun, and the republicans will love you.
January 11th, 2008 at 3:59 pmDoes Bush ever listen to how stupid he sounds ? Someone close to him Laura maybe ? Tell him to just shut up for the next 13 months. Gets excellent, experienced advice from a committee of elders and DOES THE OPPOSITE ! This man couldn’t change a lightbulb without help.
January 11th, 2008 at 3:59 pm#10, thanks for the reminder. No wonder Harvard has dropped its tuition.
They allowed this buffoon to stroll through their ivy walls to the detriment of their very fabric.
Who can possibly look at an ivy league school with any respect now? I always aspired to go to Harvard (but couldn’t afford it). Now, I am glad I didn’t. This is a tarnish on American higher education. Bought and paid for. Period.
January 11th, 2008 at 4:00 pmtexaslady, he only has 1 yr and 9 days left!
January 11th, 2008 at 4:00 pmnot 13 months!
I know, it’s not much of a difference, but every day matters
Just carry a cross and a machine gun, and the republicans will love you.
Comment by wisedup
now that’s funny……but sadly true…..poor christians just don’t get it.
January 11th, 2008 at 4:00 pmDidn’t Bush say that in 2000???
January 11th, 2008 at 4:00 pm#31 - My exact thoughts as well, how does a student with lower than average grades make it into a ivy league school and then completes a Masters ? Hmmmmm.
January 11th, 2008 at 4:02 pmUmmm…he’s a Bush. Flash enough money, and you can get into any school.
January 11th, 2008 at 4:02 pm2 million @ 23,
I agree; it makes me see red.
January 11th, 2008 at 4:03 pmBush at Aushwitz: Bush was visibly moved as he toured the site, said Yad Vashem’s chairman, Avner Shalev. “Twice, I saw tears well up in his eyes,” Shalev said.
Bush on the teevee: If I were running for office at this point, I’d be saying, ‘Vote for me. I’m gonna be an agent of change.’
Who does Bush think he is, Hillary Clinton?
January 11th, 2008 at 4:03 pmSilly me, I am forgetting Bush almost failed his flight school but jumped ahead of many qualified to get into a pilots program for planes being phased out. And still managed to go AWOL instead of completing his 6 years without a penalty. Hey this man is just amazing.
January 11th, 2008 at 4:04 pmha ha gg it didn’t work…..in fact it backfired on ya…..heh
January 11th, 2008 at 4:05 pmWhy change? Remember, Bush never makes mistakes.
The final questioner asked Bush, “Please give three instances in which you came to realize you had made a wrong decision, and what you did to correct it.” Amazing, incorrigibly, Bush refused yet again to concede any significant error. On “the big question about whether we should have removed somebody in Iraq, I’ll stand by those decisions, because I think they’re right,” he said. “On the tax cut, it’s a big decision. I did the right decision.”
http://www.slate.com/id/2107963/
January 11th, 2008 at 4:06 pm#23. If there was ever a cause for impeachment, it is now. Why people aren’t screaming for it, I don’t know.
Lying us into a PREEMPTIVE war.
Committing treason at a time of war.
Mismanaging said war.
If those three aren’t impeachable offenses, what is or are?
January 11th, 2008 at 4:06 pmBush was for “staying the course” before he was for change. Why does Bush hate the troops?
January 11th, 2008 at 4:07 pmUnfortunately, with the fundamentals of our economy retracting, the Dems CANNOT hope to implement big government social programs, even with tax increases.
Why or why didn’t Bubba Clinton pass health care reform during the first two years of his presidency, when he had a Dem congress? Do you suppose he just didn’t want to share the spotlight with his wife, Hill’reh?
January 11th, 2008 at 4:07 pmFred…didn’t ya love it? ;-)
January 11th, 2008 at 4:07 pmDoes anyone know if he’s taking drugs? -Comment by BARTLEBEE
Boy, by the looks of him lately he’s either snorting whiskey or mainlining coke, eh?
Or, as Wilco said in a thread above, he looks CRAPTASTIC!
January 11th, 2008 at 4:08 pm46 I did…..thanks for that
January 11th, 2008 at 4:09 pmwilco - thank you for reminding me bush is getting to be a shortimer.
January 11th, 2008 at 4:10 pmBartlebee - don’t think he knows how to change. Change is very scarey to the brain challenged. And add ego, well there you go. (sorry reagon’s continuous comment comes to mind when we talk of bush’s intellect, birds of a feather and all that.)
“agent of change” doesn’t mean anything, really. It’s the image that’s important; the image put in voters’ heads. That’s why after Obama’s victory in Iowa, every canditate has now switched his/her candidacy to a campaign for change.
January 11th, 2008 at 4:10 pmNo one runs on a “stay the course” ideology. They all want to change things in one way or another. It’s the combination of changes that gets someone elected. Or voter fraud. That helps too.
I’d think he took a good slice from Mein Kampf, except I know he doesn’t read.
January 11th, 2008 at 4:11 pmWhen will the Republicans realize that our enemy whom we’re fighting in this war on terror have gone AWOL, and for the last 6 years. Of course disbanding the Iraqi army was a disaster, which gave them the soldiers for the insurgency. But where have the enemy soldiers gone, a 61/2 year furlough?
That’s why American case law provides that war is declared between sovereign nations. What this idiot has us doing is making a great war which is better left to the police: Interpol and police of countries.
I give up. They’re stealing the elections, why vote?
able as
If Bush wants change he could make a good start–by resigning.
January 11th, 2008 at 4:13 pm#37 Peter and #44 Ms Joanne…If it’s just a matter of politics why did Barack say that impeachment should be reserved for “Grave” offenses? That’s insulting! And its a deal-breaker for me. I cannot vote for him, under any circumstance, until he explains this comment. I’m left to believe a terrible thought…He wants to acquire all the Unconstitutional “unitary executive” powers Bush has stolen.
January 11th, 2008 at 4:13 pmWe don’t like your kind of change, Georgie. Been there done that, in fact, still living it.
The next change I truly want to see would be Kinglet Georgie, the Dumb, in jail awaiting trial for crimes against humanity, treason and civil rights violations…
January 11th, 2008 at 4:15 pmI would love to see impeachment of the whole crew, Cheney, definitely Cheney’s lawyer and Bush. But who has the power to take it on? Henry Waxman who is pretending power won’t even air Sybil Edmonds testimony. Consider all the powers that are making money with Bush and Cheney at the helm, who can go against that?
January 11th, 2008 at 4:16 pmre impeachment:
dems don’t have the power yet…..
give it time guys……in a little over a year the repubs will be out of power and the dems will be in….things will change…..America is tired of conservatism and what is has shown itself to stand for.
Any democrat will do more for American citizens by accident than any republican will do for them on purpose.
January 11th, 2008 at 4:18 pmWhile George W. Bush may be a recovering drinker, he apparently has now developed a gambling problem. Just 10 days into 2008, the Bush White House has placed big bets on everything from a Middle East peace treaty to the prospects for a U.S. recession, even his own popularity and legacy. Unfortunately, the odds are stacked against him - and us.
For the details, see:
January 11th, 2008 at 4:19 pm“George W. Bush’s Gambling Problem.”
herr dubyah ran as an “agent of change” taking the reigns from a widely popular president and while he became the most hated president in U.S. history.
January 11th, 2008 at 4:20 pmLooks like the US prepping us for war with Iran.
US claims to have fired shots at Iranian boats.
War! War!
-GSD
January 11th, 2008 at 4:20 pmObama is already playing the game, goes along with Kerry for access to money and names. Kerry who promised to challenge the vote and wimped out. Kerry was put in to run so Bush would win but they still had to steal the votes because people wanted bush out so much, they voted for Kerry who really didn’t want it.
January 11th, 2008 at 4:21 pmBush still has 11 months left to change. He better get started now. What’s holding him up? If he wants to change his policies, more than 70% of the public will be behind him.
January 11th, 2008 at 4:22 pmSuch a glaring display of insincerity.
January 11th, 2008 at 4:23 pmFred your optimism is great, used to have it. However, the Dems who have had opportunity one after another, have let it go by the handfuls. Either, they don’t want to rock the boat or are too lazy to clean their house up. Just for one instance, the idea of working a whole week, out the door back to 3 days. Hello people we have problems that take more than 3 days to work on.
January 11th, 2008 at 4:24 pmtexaslady - re: Does Bush ever listen to how stupid he sounds ?
Bush seems to have a hearing problem. I call it selective hearing. That’s when you only hear what you want. My kids used to have it when it came to things like doing chores and whatnot. Fortunately, they grew out of it. Unfortunately, I can’t say the same for Dear Leader.
January 11th, 2008 at 4:26 pmI thought he was a uniter, not a divider and a reformer with results — how many slogans does this moron need?
January 11th, 2008 at 4:26 pm“Bush: If I ran for President, I’d be an ‘agent of change.’ ”
LOL! So, now he is the Agent of change-in-chief. Bush is certainly entertaining all of us while the writers are still on strike. I have to agree with comment #1. Bush meant underwear change.
January 11th, 2008 at 4:28 pm— how many slogans does this moron need?
Comment by NoMoreBush — January 11, 2008 @ 4:26 pm
Is it flip day or flop day? Flop day usually requires more slogans
=D
January 11th, 2008 at 4:29 pmtexaslady
They are doing really all they can against an obstructionist right wing right now……record fillibusters by the repubs since 06….remember when the repubs were going to use the nuke option when the dems wanted to use the fillibuster…
I think the country has turned left and there is really nothing the politico’s can do but go along….we may have to drag them and it may take a few cycles but they are coming whether they like it or not…..
January 11th, 2008 at 4:30 pmSince he already is the president and won’t be running for this office again, there is no need for him to be an agent of change. The “Decider” always makes the wrong decision.
January 11th, 2008 at 4:31 pm-how many slogans does this moron need?
It depends on how many different bumper stickers they can make.
January 11th, 2008 at 4:33 pmDuring Katrina everyone was afraid of bush’s nasty mood so no one told him what was happening in New Orleans til one aide braved the temper tantrum to bring him up to date. Yes, yes he should have been in the know without someone “bringing ” him up to date. But it probably would have interrupted his guitar playing and singing Happy Birthday to John McCain.
January 11th, 2008 at 4:33 pmThe “Decider†always makes the wrong decision.
Comment by Cats r Flyfishn
Well….he has so far…..every time.
January 11th, 2008 at 4:33 pmWhat’s holding him up? If he wants to change his policies, more than 70% of the public will be behind him. -Comment by shoeless
If you have a policy, and you don’t enforce it, and you don’t hold people accountable for violating it, then - do you have a policy?
Bush’s Sadministration has been a conundrum, saying one thing, doing another and then lying or not remembering…I guess that’s policy…
January 11th, 2008 at 4:35 pmI can’t believe that the lame duck president, boy Bush is back on TV. He must really hate all the candidates getting all the attention and no one really gives a hoot what he says anymore. Boy Bush is insignificant. He can stop the rolling bolder which is the American voters that just want him to LEAVE.
January 11th, 2008 at 4:36 pmOops - wish I could edit my comments.. Bush can’t stop the boulder….
January 11th, 2008 at 4:37 pmsorry - my typo
Fred you have Jim Webb who probably has more ethics and backbone than any other one up there. But, if this career is your life will you really rock the boat for the unknown citizen when the lobbyist is the one who funds the next campaign? It will take more than a change in partys, how about a change in term limits, how about cleaning out the lobbyists. How about listening to the candidate that tells you, it will take a raise in taxes to clean up this mess. The American public do not want the truth. Go see Charlie Wilson’s war and you will see how politics is run.
January 11th, 2008 at 4:39 pmAnyone else noticing the almost complete absence of trolls today?
Are they in hiding? Training? Not that I’m complaining, no.
Just nice to not have to watch them spew nonsense and have to watch where I step.
January 11th, 2008 at 4:39 pm77, RUC,
My UV / USB Trolldetector shows most of them in line, trying to collect their per post per diems.
It is Friday, after all!
January 11th, 2008 at 4:42 pmRUC - the trolls are missing because the lame duck boy Bush is becoming more insignificant every day and they know it. Or maybe they missed getting their daily email talking points from the RNC or maybe they didn’t pay their phone bill :)
January 11th, 2008 at 4:43 pmRUC, if you want, I can act like a troll.
January 11th, 2008 at 4:44 pmJerk.
Zim - yeah, maybe the RNC forgot to deposit money for the trolls per dien per comment pay check.
January 11th, 2008 at 4:44 pmSomwhere deep in the cobwebbed recesses of this man’s dimbulb brain, synaptic activity fires sporadically, causing his mouth to open, and utterances such as this to be emitted.
January 11th, 2008 at 4:44 pmThe sad shame of Amerika.
76 Do you think any of the changes we talk about will happen while repubs are in power? No. At least we have a chance if we elect dems. Remember that the real swing to the right came after rayguy was elected by lying and cheating but after he was elected he make our politics a pay to play game by expanding the lobby system dramatically….it must go the other way before we will see real change.
I agree ruc….no trolls. How nice to have civil discussions without them…
January 11th, 2008 at 4:44 pmThanks Wilco, I needed that (not). ;}
January 11th, 2008 at 4:45 pmZim - yeah, maybe the RNC forgot to deposit money for the trolls per dien per comment pay check.
-Comment by Cats r Flyfishn
Perzactly…along with the FBI’s phone bills.
January 11th, 2008 at 4:45 pmComment by Wilco — January 11, 2008 @ 4:44 pm
rumor has it gg was here for sec.
January 11th, 2008 at 4:47 pmRUC - that is one funny comment - sporadically firing synapsis that produce utterances. So that explains it.
January 11th, 2008 at 4:47 pmAmoral Frank M was on for a while
January 11th, 2008 at 4:50 pmAnd here’s Captain Mantastic!
The Chimp is already an agent of change.
He completed the changing of the Presidency, begun by Nixon, from the most trusted office in the world to the most suspected.
January 11th, 2008 at 4:50 pmCraptain’s here!
January 11th, 2008 at 4:51 pmBush is still the President of the United States.
Comment by CaptainMantastic
oh finally…..a turd has floated to the top.
he is only the resident mantool…..he was never elected.
January 11th, 2008 at 4:51 pmOt but important. It looks like there may really be something to the fears of Election Fraud in New Hampshire. How about this:
Analysts at the Election Defense Alliance (EDA) have confirmed that based on the official results on the New Hampshire Secretary of state web site, there is a remarkable relationship between Obama and Clinton votes, when you look at votes tabulated by op-scan v. votes tabulated by hand:
Clinton Optical scan 91,717 52.95%
Obama Optical scan 81,495 47.05%
Clinton Hand-counted 20,889 47.05%
Obama Hand-counted 23,509 52.95%
The percentages appear to be swapped. That seems highly unusual, to say the least.
The percentages appearing to be swapped. Does that sound familiar to anyone? It sure does to me.
January 11th, 2008 at 4:52 pmFred - I was overjoyed when the Dems came in and I realize they don’t have a majority. But they have kissed Bush’s ass on everything. Don’t tell me they couldn’t persuade some of the Repubs at least for SCHIP. The problem is many of the Dems who have been there for years don’t know if they are Dems or Repubs.
January 11th, 2008 at 4:52 pmThey are co-workers and we the taxpayer are the outsiders. Who do you listen to and whose mindset do you follow ?
My sincere apologies to all TP posters for jinxing the afternoon troll hiatus.
January 11th, 2008 at 4:53 pm#53, I think you misread me. Read again.
As for trolls, #10 tried but got a bit of a slap down. :-)
January 11th, 2008 at 4:55 pmBush is still the President of the United States.
Comment by CaptainMantastic
No he is not. He is a pretender who has stolen two elections. And we may be seeing the beginning of another stolen election in 2008 as evidenced by what happened in New Hampshire. It is sounding very fishy and if the Republicans did it, it was a brilliant move. They swap the votes of Obama and Clinton thus negating the poll numbers. So, when they steal the election in 2008, if the polls say their guy is behind by 10% and then their guy wins by 5% they can say…look, the polls are not accurate as evidenced by what happened in New Hampshire.
January 11th, 2008 at 4:55 pm#88- when you have the courts, all the way to the Supremes stacked in your favor and Diebold fixing the voting machines, gosh how does a corrupt President stay in power ?
January 11th, 2008 at 4:56 pm93 Some of that is true…remember that some are doing what they can…..they kept sessions open during recess to keep bush from making illegal recess appointments….the others we will have to drag along….I didn’t say it would be easy.
January 11th, 2008 at 4:57 pmAmoral Frank M was on for a while
And here’s Captain Mantastic!
Comment by Wilco — January 11, 2008 @ 4:50 pm
we’ll see… i’m not sure chuck’s “an agent of change”.
he may stick around, but i doubt it.
January 11th, 2008 at 5:00 pmtexaslady remember that we can’t give up….that is what happened to the good german
January 11th, 2008 at 5:02 pmIf the President-elect has any sense of history or the moment, he/she will begin her/his inaugural address on Jan. 20, 2009 with that Ford chestnut: “Our long national nightmare is over.”
January 11th, 2008 at 5:04 pm98 - Your optimism is much needed for those who have heard the promises before.
January 11th, 2008 at 5:05 pm102 I’m 56 and I remember my grandparents talking about FDR. I was young but I remember JFK. These men were real Americans….not corportate whores like bush and co.
I think the right wingers have driven the country too far….I think even religious folks are seeing through thier bs….I’m hopin
January 11th, 2008 at 5:09 pmseriously, you all would be bored without us.
Comment by CaptainMantastic
wrong…….again……as usual.
January 11th, 2008 at 5:12 pmBush might just be the Agent Orange of change.
January 11th, 2008 at 5:13 pmI was thinking that maybe the phone companies had cut off the trolls internet access for non-payment by the RNC.
January 11th, 2008 at 5:13 pmbut this is paranoid conspiracy talk.
Comment by CaptainMantastic
its a fact. he’s appointed…not elected…period, end of discussion troll..
January 11th, 2008 at 5:14 pmSo it just didn’t happen that two in Ohio have been sentenced for fixing votes because they didn’t want to spend time recounting?
So, even tho Gore won the popular vote and votes were mishandled in Florida first time ever, the Supremes stepped in.
No, no fraud anywhere.
Now, I have some excellent swamp land you might just be interested in.
January 11th, 2008 at 5:19 pmDon’t pay any attention to CaptainMantastic, he’s a troll who hates America.
January 11th, 2008 at 5:21 pmCaptainMantastic doesn’t even deny that he’s a troll….that’s how low his self esteem is.
January 11th, 2008 at 5:22 pmOh, one more thing, strangely when the media started asking questions and checking the votes in Florida all of a sudden, 9/11 just happened. Nahhh nothing strange about that.
January 11th, 2008 at 5:22 pmManchild cheerleader from hell: George “the chimp” bush.
January 11th, 2008 at 5:23 pmYou heard it here folks. CaptainMantastic just admitted that chimy was not elected, that he is a fraudulent pretender.
January 11th, 2008 at 5:23 pmNBC doing a multi-part interview with georgejr is evidence that they simply can’t find enough real news to report on. When was the last time the man said anything different than what we’ve heard from him for the past 7 years?
And Bush’s remarks about checkpoints in Israel - try driving some highways in sountern New Mexico. Border Patrol agents set up checkpoints to stop and harrass drivers, asking citizenship, and “where are you going?” Where’s the law that says they have any right to know where we came from or where we’re going? Yes, these agents are armed.
January 11th, 2008 at 5:24 pmWHY - o - WHY does ANYONE listen to this fool?
Ooops, I forgot…Chhheeenny will bug their phones if they don’t..Ooops I forgot, the FBI can’t pay the phone bill - they shipped all the money to, ooops Finland?? Ooops,or is that Swaziland..Ooops or is that (you fill in the blanks…)
What bozos….
January 11th, 2008 at 5:29 pmWhy do you hate America, Mantastic? Is it because your GOP party turned it into a fascist nightmare? Or maybe because your tired of all the welfare your sucking out of us. Is that it? Tired of being a parasite? Thought so…
January 11th, 2008 at 5:32 pmFred. How come I don’t have to insult you to feel good about myself? You should spend some time thinking about that.
Comment by CaptainMantastic
no need…..I already know you for what you are.
January 11th, 2008 at 5:33 pmI prefer that Bush/Cheney drink a gallon of Agent Orange.
January 11th, 2008 at 5:34 pmWhy do you hate America, Mantastic?
you got kinda quiet when we started talking about the fact that bush was never elected….that he is just an appointee…..I know why….because it’s true and you can’t prove otherwise.
January 11th, 2008 at 5:36 pmThat’s it for me….since the trolls arrived I think I will move on. It was really pleasant here without them.
January 11th, 2008 at 5:39 pmAssociated Press-Ipsos poll conducted by Ipsos Public Affairs. Jan. 7-9,
Generally speaking, would you say things in this country are heading in the right direction, or are they off on the wrong track?”
Right Direction: 27 %
Wrong Direction: 68 %
Unsure: 5%
Change IS the remedy for going in the wrong direction.
January 11th, 2008 at 5:40 pmCome on, Captain, you know what people are talking about. Don’t play dumb. You know that the majority of votes cast in Florida were for Gore. You know that the Supreme court prevented the state of Florida from counting the votes and appointed Bush president. Why is it so hard for Bush supporters to simply acknowlege that fact.
Simply google on “20040526_KeatingPaper.pdf” and scroll down to “results.” It’s all there and you know it.
January 11th, 2008 at 5:41 pm#119 -My son and family were pulled over and SUV was searched on I-45 going to their home about 80 miles South of us. They had come home from a trip, picked up the children from us and headed home. It was 1:30 A.M. on a weeknight. He wasn’t speeding, or weaving. No explanation or apology was offerred. Officer could see two little ones in car seats with luggage pretty clear just a family going home.
January 11th, 2008 at 5:42 pmRCJR- He would never admit the facts with matches under his fingernails. They have to believe or it would make the last 7 years the hell it is.
January 11th, 2008 at 5:46 pmbilbo. I love you, man, but this is paranoid conspiracy talk.
Comment by CaptainMantastic — January 11, 2008 @ 5:12 pm
No it isn’t CraptainManiacal, you’re the idiot falling behind the conspirators. You have no business judging anybody here. You people are the traitors who got us into this pile of shit. So apologize and be on your way and hope you don’t get yours.
January 11th, 2008 at 5:48 pmLook’s like a slow day. I’m just here cause I’m bored.
Comment by CaptainMantastic — January 11, 2008 @ 5:19 pm
Well you’re boring, I’ll give you that much.
January 11th, 2008 at 5:49 pmFormer Sen. Carol Moseley Braun had it right…”Bush won the 2000 election, because he got the Black Vote…..Clarence Thomas!”
January 11th, 2008 at 5:49 pmOkay, so you support the president and think he did a good job simply because he “is still president”? Great argument.
Hell, anyone who isn’t in jail couldn’t have committed a crime, otherwise they would be in jail. DUH!
I truly don’t know why I bother responding to you CraptasticMan.
January 11th, 2008 at 5:50 pmIt’s even worse than the results of the consortium show because according to the judge in Broward County, he was on the verge of ruling that the state had to count “overvotes” as well and subsequent study by the Miami Herald showed that Gore would have picked up another 4 or 5 thousand votes from that count on top of the standard state-wide recount.
Please face the facts Bush supporters. It won’t change a thing and it shouldn’t hurt to face the truth. All you need to do is respect the truth and the truth is that the majority of voters in Florida voted for Al Gore.
January 11th, 2008 at 5:51 pmWell, Fred, I guess if you proclaim it, it must be true.
Comment by CaptainMantastic — January 11, 2008 @ 5:21 pm
Glad you support Fred as we all do because he just said you’re a troll who hates America and we all know you’re a traitor.
January 11th, 2008 at 5:52 pmAn agent of change - yeah, he would change it to a total DICTATORSHIP instead of the Dictatorship lite we have now.
Bush/Cheney
Hague Trials ‘09
Buck Fush
January 11th, 2008 at 5:52 pmFred. How come I don’t have to insult you to feel good about myself? You should spend some time thinking about that.
Comment by CaptainMantastic — January 11, 2008 @ 5:31 pm
Because Fred’s not the a$$hole, you are.
January 11th, 2008 at 5:54 pmCaptian: “Basically, the 2000 election was a tie. All the information I’ve been exposed to indicates that Bush won every recount in Florida.”
If by that you mean that it was ALMOST a tie, I agree, but ALMOST doesn’t count if you’re looking at reality. Reality is best expressed in the results exhaustive study of Florida ballots done by a non-partisan consortium of universities, election experts and journalists and documented in the Keating Report. Again, it’s available to anyone interested. You can google on “20040526_KeatingPaper.pdf†to bring up a pdf of the actual report and scroll down to “results.” There you will find that it was ALMOST a tie, but not quite. Gore won.
January 11th, 2008 at 5:55 pmCaptian, if you want to split hairs it wasn’t even close. The Florida republican party settled a lawsuit with the NAACP out of court admitting that they wrongfully eliminated thousands of African American voters preventing them from voting in that election. Polls show that they would have voted 9-1 for Gore. And, as I already pointed out, Gore would have gotten another 4 or 5 thousand votes from the “overvote” recount. In addition, Pat Buchanan himself agreed that at least 15,000 votes that went to him should have gone to Gore.
The Founders were not interested in details. All they stipulated was that elections should show the will of the voters. The will of the voters in 2000 was to elect Al Gore. He won the national popular vote by 500,000 and should have won Florida by at least 10,000 if Bush’s brother had not fixed the election and Bush’s friends on the Supreme court didn’t prevent the state from counting all its votes.
YOU KNOW I’M RIGHT ABOUT THAT. Again, it’s just history. This is the way the history books will record that sorry election. You might as well acknowlege it now because it will never go away. Bush is easily the most illegitimate President in history and his record of incompetence has done nothing to mitigate this sorry mistake of an election.
January 11th, 2008 at 6:02 pmNH is showing a 4.5% bump over Obama only in areas using Diebold machines. NH has someone serving on the Elections Board with a Felony narcotics indictment, who commented he didn’t believe in obeying ALL the voting laws. Changing the cards during the voting process instead of completion.
January 11th, 2008 at 6:04 pmSuch coincidentals which we have all seen before, yet we who question are paranoid ? I don’t think so.
Captain: “If the case against Bush for impeachment was strong enough, it would happen. That’s all.”
Come on. That’s not even a stone’s throw from reality. Republicans in congress have already set historical records with 64 filibusters in ONE session and they’re not even done. If they won’t even agree to vary from Bush’s policies, they sure as hell would never have cooperated with any impeachment inquiry. It would have been an exercise in futility and responsible Dems understood that all along.
January 11th, 2008 at 6:05 pmA more pertinent question: If Bush was as illegitimate as most here claim he was, why did he win the 2004 election, by a significant margin?
Comment by CaptainMantastic — January 11, 2008 @ 5:48 pm
It wasn’t significant. In fact, it was the worst showing by an incumbent president in the last 100 years.
January 11th, 2008 at 6:05 pmwhy did he win the 2004 election, by a significant margin?
Comment by CaptainMantastic
I wonder how long the Kool Aid stays in one’s system…
January 11th, 2008 at 6:07 pmIt’s SO FUNNY to hear the wingnuts spoonfed bullshit.
Like Homer Simpson, trying to stab his own brain with a pencil cause he doesn’t like what he’s “hearing” within his own head.
January 11th, 2008 at 6:09 pmDear Leader, SHUT UP!
January 11th, 2008 at 6:09 pmCaptain: ” I am just asking you this: with the stakes of a political election being so high, if a preponderence of the evidence indicated a Gore win, why didn’t it lead to a Gore presidency?”
Good question. The media consortium’s study was never intended to change any results. It wasn’t conducted until months after the election and it didn’t finish until just after the 9-11 attack. The consensus in the media was that the nation was traumatized by the attack and the last thing we needed was a full-out airing of a tragic election fiasco. This accounts for the strange way in which the media reported the results - almost without exception, they centered on the part of the study which just showed results based on the 3-county recount and not the state-wide recount which the Florida Supreme Court had mandated. The study was done strictly for history. In addition, Antonin Scalia claimed that they prevented the count so as not to have the legitimacy of the Bush presidency questioned so they were erroneously assuming that Bush won anyway.
January 11th, 2008 at 6:10 pmCaptain: “why did he win the 2004 election, by a significant margin?”
First of all, he didn’t. Just last month, the Ohio Sec. of State issued a public statement that there was conclusive evidence of massive fraud in the 2004 election and that quite possibly they got the results in Ohio wrong.
In addition, and as you know, the 2004 election was run under the umbrella of an ongoing “war” in Iraq and the repubes ran on the war. In fact, according to Andrew Card, former Bush advisor, part of the reason for attacking Iraq when they did was to help him win reelection, so we’re talking apples and oranges here when comparing 2000 to 2004.
January 11th, 2008 at 6:13 pmIt still leaves the question unanswered: If Bush was that illegitimate, why did he win in 2004 with an even more significant margin?
Comment by CaptainMantastic — January 11, 2008 @ 6:13 pm
The unanswered question really is: why do you keep lying about the margin?
January 11th, 2008 at 6:16 pmCaptain, you claim you can’t see the paper. Here’s a location you can use. See for yourself. Educate yourself.
http://www.aei.org/ docLib/ 20040526_KeatingPaper.pdf
January 11th, 2008 at 6:19 pmIt still leaves the question unanswered: If Bush was that illegitimate, why did he win in 2004 with an even more significant margin?
Comment by CaptainMantastic — January 11, 2008 @ 6:13 pm
Here’s an answer. FEAR
a group of at least ten armed Chechen separatists and supporters took more than 1,200 schoolchildren and adults hostage on September 1, 2004.
Three hundred and thirty-four (334) civilians were killed including 186 children and hundreds more were wounded.
This happened two months before the election, Gore had a 15 point advantage among Women Voters. Kerry did Not.
January 11th, 2008 at 6:20 pmgummitch. how about this: with an even more significant margin than he did in 2000.
Comment by CaptainMantastic — January 11, 2008 @ 6:19 pm
He was the incumbent. Simple. How about you address the information you keep avoiding? Why did an incumbent president fare so poorly in the election?
January 11th, 2008 at 6:22 pmThere must be alot of crazy people, just like me.
Comment by CaptainMantastic
Yup, you’re known as “the lowest common denominators”.
January 11th, 2008 at 6:24 pmIt’s possible that I’m just crazy. But, let’s hear from you. If your assessment of the Bush presidency, it’s illegitimacy, failed policies and impeachable offenses are so ironclad; why is he still the president?
There must be alot of crazy people, just like me.
Comment by CaptainMantastic — January 11, 2008 @ 6:17 pm
Look up the word: inertia.
How many US Presidents have been removed from office?
If your standard for assessing a presidential administration is “was it bad enough that even a Congress without a clear oppositional majority impeached and removed him?”, you’ve set the bar so high it’s meaningless.
January 11th, 2008 at 6:27 pmCol Jack. I’m trying to be open minded, but at some point doesn’t it sound like sour grapes or conspiracy theory? He stole the election in 2000 and then he stole the election in 2004?
Comment by CaptainMantastic — January 11, 2008 @ 6:25 pm
Open-minded? Seriously?
Consider this, then, if something works once why not do it again? Why is that so hard to grasp?
January 11th, 2008 at 6:28 pmWhen America was at war, the Voters have Never not elected an incumbent president that Chose to run for reelection. NEVER
January 11th, 2008 at 6:28 pmCol. Jack. You know that popular votes don’t determine election outcomes. If you want to argue against that, I understand, but it is a different issue. Presidential elections are decided by electoral votes and in 2000 it came down to Florida. Again, the information I have been exposed to indicated the although narrowly, Bush won every recount. If you claim that some were denied their vote, I understand. Are you taking into account Republicans that also claimed their votes were denied?
Comment by CaptainMantastic — January 11, 2008 @ 6:13 pm
Actually, Bush was expected to WIN the popular vote and LOSE the electoral college (opposite of what happened).
The Bush TRIAL LAWYERS had the arguments all set for the Supreme Court about why the POPULAR vote should trump the ELECTORAL.
Sincerely,
NRA Gun Nutes
P.S. After the Rove phony investigation of Texas Democratic opponents, we now know WHY the DoJ was politicized by the
TRAITORS Bush and Gonzales.
Former Governor Don Siegelman is a POLITICAL PRISONER, held incommunicado by the CRIMINALS in the DoJ.
Read the letter from his daughter:
http://www.atlargely.com/don_siegelman/
When your attorney general LIES and Bush refuses to let Rove testify UNDER OATH, you KNOW they are TRAITORS.
January 11th, 2008 at 6:29 pmThere is precedence for incumbent presidents faring poorly in the re-election attempts. Just ask Jimmy Carter.
Comment by CaptainMantastic — January 11, 2008 @ 6:28 pm
Or George’s dad. That’s a weasel route, Mantastic. Explain why a re-elected, incumbent, “war time” president had the poorest margin ever. And explain why you keep claiming it was a “significant” margin when the significance is just the opposite of what you claim.
January 11th, 2008 at 6:31 pmHe stole the election in 2000 and then he stole the election in 2004?
Comment by CaptainMantastic
Blind denial gives rise to an environment in which elections can be stolen. There’s documented evidence that the machines are fallible. There’s NO evidence supporting the “fair” election of the Dumbya.
January 11th, 2008 at 6:31 pmGood God,
Again, you must have brown eyes ManCapt cause you are definitely, completely FULL OF SHIT.
IF YOU DEPEND ON THE “MEDIA” FOR YOUR NEWS, THERE’S YOUR FIRST MISTAKE.
Independent thought must be a gene that you are sorely missing.
January 11th, 2008 at 6:36 pmIt is one thing to accuse me of drinking kool-aid, it is another to explain away the lack of interest on the part of the media.
Comment by CaptainMantastic — January 11, 2008 @ 6:32 pm
The reason that Nixon went down was the TENACITY OF THE MEDIA.
The reason Bush is allowed to commit TREASON is that the MEDIA has lunches with him, get paid MILLIONS, and if they criticized BusHitler,
Karl Rove would call the owner of the media and have them FIRED.
REAL journalists like Helen Thomas are kept at bay…
January 11th, 2008 at 6:40 pmDieNowForPeace. You must get all your information first hand.
Comment by CaptainMantastic — January 11, 2008 @ 6:38 pm
No, but when you can see the information from 20 different directions thanks to the web,
listening to Bill O’Reilly and Katie Couric just don’t cut it for JOURNALISM
Sincerely,
NRA Gun Nutes
January 11th, 2008 at 6:42 pmYou must get all your information first hand.
Comment by CaptainMantasti
GREAT! More proof of your deep-seeded ignorance.
January 11th, 2008 at 6:46 pmComment by CaptainMantastic
I wonder how long the Kool Aid stays in one’s system…
Comment by DieNowForPeace — January 11, 2008 @ 6:07 pm
Craptain has an open vein and he just keeps the koolaid flowing, he’s just a huge waste of time.
January 11th, 2008 at 6:52 pmIf it were discovered some time after the 2000 election (and then again after the 2004 election) that credible evidence indicated that Bush’s presidency was illegitimate; why wouldn’t the media expose it.
It is one thing to accuse me of drinking kool-aid, it is another to explain away the lack of interest on the part of the media.
Comment by CaptainMantastic
The MSM has not been doing its job for quite a while now - and I think you know that. When a major player like joe Klein says he doesn’t have the time or interest to learn the truth about FISA, then that should tell you all there is to know. Klein wrote column after column without knowing the facts of a major issue facing our country.
Your feelings towards our media should be one of shame and disappointment. That’s what we get when we allow defense contractors (General Electric) to own media outlets. If they want to continue earning dollars from the US government, they are not going to criticize them too much. our media has been hijacked by larger corporate interests. The dollar is king - not the truth. That should worry you.
January 11th, 2008 at 6:57 pmThe reason that Nixon went down was the TENACITY OF THE MEDIA.
It’s the same tenacious media, what’s missing is the substanitive case against Bush. Your partisanship is clouding your vision.
Comment by CaptainMantastic — January 11, 2008 @ 6:53 pm
LIES by another TRAITOR Bush azslicker.
YOUR partisanship makes YOU worship a COXUCKER punk TRAITOR like BusHitler.
DoJ politicization, ILLEGAL WARS,
exposing CIA WMD spies for REVENGE,
TORTURE
jail without trial and
Bush and Cheney REFUSED to TESTIFY UNDER OATH to the 9/11 and tell the TRUTH to the American people about 9/11,
their friends the Bin Ladens and the Saudi financiers of Al Queda.
So, YOUR blind partisanship will cause you to BURN FOR ETERNITY for supporting evil MURDERER Bush the COXUCKER punk
TRAITOR to the USA.
Sincerely,
NRA Gun Nutes
BURN, BABY, BURN!!!
January 11th, 2008 at 7:00 pmThe reason that Nixon went down was the TENACITY OF THE MEDIA.
It’s the same tenacious media, what’s missing is the substanitive case against Bush. Your partisanship is clouding your vision.
Comment by CaptainMantastic
That was then, this is now. Please don’t insult our intelligence by making these types of comparisons. And, just for the record, only two reporters were actively pursuing the case. Two reporters out of thousands. that is not a good ratio - if you like democracy.
January 11th, 2008 at 7:01 pmIt’s the same tenacious media, what’s missing is the substanitive case against Bush. Your partisanship is clouding your vision.
Comment by CaptainMantastic — January 11, 2008 @ 6:53 pm
LOL Did you trade shirts with O. Bigfoot and now he’s wearing the “I’m with Stupid” shirt?
January 11th, 2008 at 7:11 pmThe Chimp, by every word and dead, has proven the illegitimacy of his Presidency. Former elections are history. The next election is important.
The biggest question may be whether the Chimp leaves peacefully, or kicking and screaming.
January 11th, 2008 at 7:15 pmPeace and love.
Comment by CaptainMantastic — January 11, 2008 @ 7:09 pm
Just what we need. I’ll take that and give it right back at ya.
Peace and love.
January 11th, 2008 at 7:19 pmA credible newspaper or magazine wouldn’t sell copies of an issue that spelled out how the 2000 and 2004 elections were illegitimate?
I disagree.
Comment by CaptainMantastic
And I disagree there are any credible newspapers or magazines out there at the present time.
January 11th, 2008 at 7:20 pmCaptain Mantastic: “If it were discovered some time after the 2000 election (and then again after the 2004 election) that credible evidence indicated that Bush’s presidency was illegitimate; why wouldn’t the media expose it.”
Since the mid-nineties and Clinton’s huge mistake of allowing deregulation of media, the corporate conglomerates who control media understand that the republican party is generally a force for deregulation and the democratic party is basically for re-regulation. It is in their corporate interest to help repubes get elected. This is just one reason why every four years the media finds ways to convince us that the Dem candidate is a creep and the repube candidate is a hero or a “regular guy you’d want to have a beer with.” In addition, since the media worked hard to install and legitimize Bush, the last thing they want to do is admit that they have been part of a process which installed an illegitimate president.
January 11th, 2008 at 7:21 pmAnd, by the way, Captain, I gave you the link to the media report on the 2000 election so I assume you’ve had a chance to click on it, scroll down and view the results of a full state-wide recount yourself. Your thoughts? Pretty close, huh? To bad about those results though, wouldn’t you agree?
January 11th, 2008 at 7:22 pmThe biggest question may be whether the Chimp leaves peacefully, or kicking and screaming.
Comment by Impolitics — January 11, 2008 @ 7:15 pm
I think we should kick his asz and scream at him a LOT for the EVIL ACTS he has committed.
Kicking and Screaming, Please!
–Ned Flanders
January 11th, 2008 at 7:24 pmHere is some more “change” W would have enacted if he were able to back then:
” At one point, Bush viewed aerial photos of the Auschwitz camp taken during the war by U.S. forces and called Rice over to discuss why the American government had decided against bombing the site”
Supposedly he was talking about the tracks leading to the camp…but his solution to everything: BOMB IT!
I guess we should have bomb the WTC on 9/10/01 to stop that too.
January 11th, 2008 at 7:28 pmThis fist-f__cker isn’t smart enough to change his mind without help
January 11th, 2008 at 7:31 pmfrom his Daddy Chinny. Maybe while in Dubai he can pick out his retirement home. That may be his safest place to stay away from The Hague.
The only thing that should change is the collar around his neck. Next one will be either nylon or hemp.
January 11th, 2008 at 7:33 pmI’m going to take a wild guess that the Democratic administration of FDR and Truman decided not to drop bombs on Auschwitz because it was filled with innocent prisoners. Turns out you can’t kill prison guards with bombs without killing the prisoners as well. Who’d have thought?
January 11th, 2008 at 7:33 pmCol. - yeah that was my first thought….duh, maybe that’s why. If you blow up the death camp, you kill the prisoners inside of it. And in the process, do the job you were trying to prevent. Yale must be proud…
January 11th, 2008 at 7:40 pmI