Paul Warns Against Rush To War With Iran, All Other GOP Candidates ‘Ready To Attack’
Paul Warns Against Rush To War With Iran, All Other GOP Candidates ‘Ready To Attack’
Last night, Fox News anchor Brit Hume kicked off the network’s South Carolina GOP debate by asking the candidates if “the American commander in the Strait of Hormuz the other day [made] the right decision by responding passively when approached aggressively by Iranian fast boats believed to be from the Revolutionary Guards.”
Almost all of the candidates responded with hawkish, war-mongering rhetoric.
Former governor Mike Huckabee replied that the Iranians should “be prepared that the next things you see will be the gates of Hell.” “One more step and they would have been introduced to those virgins that they’re looking forward to seeing,” said former senator Fred Thompson.
“This incident should wake a lot of people up,” said former mayor Rudy Giuliani. “Don’t think that this wasn’t a serious situation of the utmost seriousness,” added Sen. John McCain (R-AZ).
The only candidate to acknowledge the Navy’s doubts over the source of the incident was Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX), who struck a much more cautious tone:
Guess what, today the Navy commander of the fifth fleet was on ABC and announced that, “you know, that voice might not have come from those vessels.” So what does that mean? Was there a rush to judgment on this, ready to go to war? … And we don’t need another war, and this incident should not be thrown out of proportion to the point where we’re getting ready to attack Iran over this.
Watch it:
Ignoring these concerns, former governor Mitt Romney threw an insult at Paul, saying, “I think Congressman Paul should not be reading so many of Ahmadinejad’s press releases.”
Considering that Paul was merely noting the Navy’s own doubts about the incident, Romney’s barb is foolish. In fact, the Washington Post reports this morning that “the Pentagon said it does not dispute anything” in an Iranian video that “offers no indication of the tensions that supposedly sparked the encounter.”
Juan Cole has more about how the candidates’ rhetoric disregarded the known facts.
Sort Comments By: Top Rated | Date
It’s really too bad that, aside from being right about the war(s) on Iraq and Iran, Ron Paul is a complete whackjob.
January 11th, 2008 at 11:45 amLeftside Annie beat me to the punch.
January 11th, 2008 at 11:49 amI conquer,leftside annie!(word of the day)
January 11th, 2008 at 11:49 am“It’s really too bad that, aside from being right about the war(s) on Iraq and Iran, Ron Paul is a complete whackjob.
Comment by Leftside Annie”
They are all complete whackjobs by definition - they’re republicans.
January 11th, 2008 at 11:49 am10 points to anyone who can place that reference…
January 11th, 2008 at 11:49 amIt was a massive psy-ops to see where the American people stand. After the recently released NIE revealed that Iran has no nuclear program Bushco. is anxious to find an “angle” for attacking Iran that will garner popular support.
There is NO angle. The public knows the truth. Iran is not a nuclear threat. Nor is it even remotely likely to attack its neighbors conventionally.
And in a bit of synchronicity it was revealed yesterday that the Gulf of Tonkin NEVER actually happened.
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/01/09/6264/
January 11th, 2008 at 11:49 amMitt: “I think Congressman Paul should not be reading so many of Ahmadinejad’s press releases.â€
- - And the vastly red-meat, foaming-at-the-mouth audience lapped it up.
January 11th, 2008 at 11:50 amCadaverous Fox Noise war-monger Britt Hume(Sh*t Fume) said the US navy responded “passively” to the dreaded cigarette boat assault and Borat sounding radio communications.
-GSD
January 11th, 2008 at 11:51 amI think Ron Paul is dead on about the Iraq war. I also think he is dead on about monetary policy. I would consider voting for him.
January 11th, 2008 at 11:51 amWhere is the major media story about the Navy’s reassessment of its original dire report about the supposed “incident” at the Strait of Hormuz? ABC released the original story, then the mainstream media went silent on it. Where are the blazing headlines and the Breaking News announcements?
Where is the outrage about the timing of this bogus “news story” that fed McCain’s war mongering rhetoric just in time for the NH primary. WHO is responsible? Who will be held accountable? No one.
January 11th, 2008 at 11:52 amI wonder if anyone here even has an education in Finance. No? I thought so.
January 11th, 2008 at 11:52 amReich-wingers on the wrong side of yet ANOTHER issue….go figure.
January 11th, 2008 at 11:54 amMan… the GOP sure does play to the base on this issue during the primary season. I can’t wait until one of them emerges from their collection of bad choices, hits the regular campaign against Obama (hopefully), and then starts playing to the VAST majority of America that doesn’t want another war would actually like to get out of the one we’re currently stuck in.
Republicans are so easily predictable and transparent, it’s silly.
January 11th, 2008 at 11:54 am4 - Fritz: but of course. Ron Paul merely stands out from that pack of lunatics because he’s the ONLY one with even a single grain of good sense.
The rest of ‘em? Lock ‘em up where they can’t hurt themselves or anyone else.
Preferably in a nice rubber room.
January 11th, 2008 at 11:56 amAll of these chickenhawks are on the receiving side of “war profits” - big time!! Greed is the only reason they’re posturing pro-war. What we definitely don’t need is another war - our troops are worn thin and our economy is already sliding into a depression.
What happened to Russia is happening to the US. We’ve taken our eye off the ball and off our own backyard and are becoming a “bankrupt nation” - soon to join third world status.
These pigs seem hell bent on feeding like hogs on the trough - and breaking the backs of the middle class. They’re repulsive.
January 11th, 2008 at 11:56 amRon Paul is a reich-winger lunatic that stands out from the rest of reich-wing lunatics. I’m not sure if that’s good or bad.
January 11th, 2008 at 11:58 amIt’s safe to say that, even without another war with Iran, this country is sliding down the bunghole into sheer nothing-ness. We can thank Bush and his cadre of criminals (and that includes these war mongers running to become “bush lite”) for destroying this country.
Bin Laden will turn out to be a prophet when he said that he needs do nothing - by engaging in a war of choice with the wrong enemy, our country will find it’s demise - at it’s own hands. It’s coming to fruition with each passing day.
January 11th, 2008 at 11:58 amI wonder how many of the Republican candidates have a second language. Bush can’t even master his one.
January 11th, 2008 at 11:59 amIt’s almost funny how Brit Hume-an asshat and his friends at Fixed Noise don’t let facts get in the way of a debate question. It was becoming more and more obvious as the day went on yesterday that the Administration’s take on this incident was questionable at the very least. Ron Paul was ahead of the Republican curve once again in repects to facts. I guess that’s one of the reasons he doesn’t stand a chance in his party. Oh yeah, and being batshit crazy isn’t helping him either. But batshit crazy or not, he seems to have a far greater respect for truth and facts than ANY of the other lunatics going for their party’s nomination. Fascists and loonys…that’s the Republican party in a wingnutshell for you!
January 11th, 2008 at 11:59 amDefiniteform @ 11,
Actually, I do; I have an MBA from the University of Michigan. Exactly where does Finance fit in??? This seems to me to be a tread about propaganda, suppression of dissent, and the rush to war.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:00 pmCadaverous Fox Noise war-monger Britt Hume(Sh*t Fume) said the US navy responded “passively†to the dreaded cigarette boat assault and Borat sounding radio communications.
-GSD
Comment by GSD — January 11, 2008 @ 11:51 am
I wonder how many of the Republican candidates have a second language. Bush can’t even master his one.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:00 pmGo Blue! :)
January 11th, 2008 at 12:00 pmDr. Matt: Although I concur with Paul’s philosophy on war, I am totally disappointed in the kinds of bigoted slurs which were published in his newsletters, as was recently brought to the fore. Regardless of the fact that he now says that he didn’t compose or print them (bad excuse), one would think that the use of his name would be closely monitored and, if that individual did not cease and desist from besmerching Paul’s reputation, then he would take the case to court.
I think it’s a case of Paul’s past coming back to haunt him. It’s safe to say that, although he’s had a timely anti-war message, his past will destroy him from any further political aspirations.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:00 pmoops, finger slipped at #18
January 11th, 2008 at 12:00 pmNo doubt the war mongers were the ones to dredge up Paul’s past since they couldn’t legitimately omit him from the debates. It’s “payback time” and the disgusting Reptards know all about evil deeds.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:02 pmThey are all complete whackjobs by definition - they’re republicans.
Comment by Fritz
No, Paul is a Libertarian masquerading as a Republican so no one will ask him why he wants to sell Yellowstone National Park to mining companies, repeal child labor laws and the minimum wage, so children can work in the mines for 10 cents/hour.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:02 pmVeritas, I no doubt agree with his anti-war message, but that’s where it starts and stops with my support of Paul.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:03 pmFrancine: Peddle your lies and drivel elsewhere. No one here buys one word of it. Scram you piss-soaked troll!
January 11th, 2008 at 12:03 pm23 - Veritas - that stuff was what I was talking about when I described him as a “whackjob”. He’s nuts.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:03 pmIran is obviously a threat to world peace and nuclear non-proliferation.
Comment by Frank M — January 11, 2008 @ 12:01 pm
How is it “obvious”? Please cite your proof.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:03 pmdid anyone else find the “you will explode now” hilarious? It sounded like a cross between Vincent Price and Borat. If that was on the daily show or the Colbert Report people would have been talking about it for weeks. Comedy at it’s best. It’s just a shame a few of the republicons take it seriously.
What was with Mike Huckerbee last night? I never knew he was so insane. Fred Thompson showed up last night too and thankfully it’s way too late to get him elected.
Anyone want to predict this year in Bush history? Any more wars? Surely Bush has to protect Israel in his last year in office doesn’t he? Is this what the “peace talks” are about?
January 11th, 2008 at 12:03 pmUnfortunately I watched that debate last night. I don’t support him, but Ron Paul was the ONLY intelligent human being on that stage, and the ONLY voice of reason and logic. If I hadn’t been live blogging I wouldn’t have been able to stand it. It was so unprofessional the way the so-called “moderators’ treated Ron Paul, and allowed the others to respond in such an undignified way with their open insults. (ex. Romney telling Ron Paul that he should stop reading Ahmadinejad’s daily press releases - or something to that effect). It is clear from anyone with ears and a brain that this ‘threat’ was nothing by propaganda meant to get an emotional response from US citizens before Bush left on his trip. The audio on that tape was ridiculous. This administration is playing with fire.
The behavior on that stage last night was undignified and not worthy of a presidential debate.. Not surprising though..
January 11th, 2008 at 12:04 pmJesus H. Christ, Frankie - take a pill, ya murderous bastard.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:04 pmDr. Matt: Agreed. Paul’s still a Republican which means every cell in his body is contaminated with bigotry, hatred, and evil. A republican doesn’t know the difference at this point between truth and lies and, frankly, cannot hold a very high intelligence quotient as a result.
Paul’s performed his function which has been to make the GOP look like the lying gang of thugs and criminals whom they are - end of story.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:04 pmComment by Frank M — January 11, 2008 @ 12:01 pm
Is exactly what Iran wants to make a big muslim coalition. Have your military bogged down in the middle of ME, so everyone can attack you.
And, you believe the speedboats are all the danger from Iraq? Iran can fire a great number of conventional head, low altitude conventional missiles to the USA big ships at the Strait of Hormuz, and take two birds with a stone: sink some enemy vessels and stop the way used by super tankers who bring the oil to the USA.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:05 pmFear, fear, fear…..the Repturds inhale the emotion with every breath.
Fortunately, the young people whose synaptic activity is still normal aren’t buying one iota of it all.
What people have to fear most is the fear which is being instilled as a means to control our behavior by this psychotic group of thugs running our government.
Even if it now means that the “cry wolf syndrome” will prevail, the positive thing is that most intelligent individuals will not be controlled by fear any longer. Nor will they believe anything coming from the White House.
This overexposed video has been relegated to “old stuff” - a tape which was taken months ago with a “dubbed in” vocal. What else can we expect from Bush who fakes Bin Laden videos, too?? Very sad!
But sadder is the fact that this demented dictator actually believes that he’s duping the american people. He’s the loser.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:08 pmIn the 1980s, reich-wingers told us to be afraid of Russian nuclear weapons
From 2001 to 2007, reich-wingers told us to be afraid of terrorists.
In 2008, reich-wingers are telling us to be afraid of water skiing Iranians.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:08 pmFrancine: the tape has now been proven to be bogus with an audio dubbed in….get over it, reputard! Life goes on….oh blah dee….oh blah dah….
January 11th, 2008 at 12:08 pmDr. Matt: Fear, fear, fear….and we discover that the ONLY thing we have to fear is our very own, homegrown “ENEMY WITHIN” - The Republicans.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:09 pmand false flag operations like 911??
January 11th, 2008 at 12:10 pmHuckabee “gates of Hell”, Thompson “introduced to those virgins”, Giuliani “should wake a lot of people up”, McCain “utmost seriousness” Romney “Ahmadinejad’s press releases”.
This is exactly why we should never have a Republican War Whore in office ever again. They are the sickest subhuman scum on the face of the earth, they make Sadam look like a saint.
Bush/Cheney
Hague Trials ‘09
Buck Fush
January 11th, 2008 at 12:10 pmFrank is in his comfort zone today. We’ve already have a president who pushes soundbytes and missinformation. We don’t need another. Rush to judgement has left us in Iraq without a clear plan for the last 5 years. Any talk of the surge should also be tempered with the blunders that preceeded.
I am in no way defending Iran but I have to ask this to Frank. How is the current leadership in Tehran illegitamate and why is undemocratic a rationale to attack?
Please stand by your talking points Frank and explain yourself.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:10 pmIran is obviously a threat to world peace and nuclear non-proliferation.
Comment by Frank M — January 11, 2008 @ 12:01 pm
How is it “obvious� Please cite your proof.
Comment by Dr. Matt
Because, in the future they may develop plans to produce documents related to programs to study possible methods of manufacturing Cigarette Boats of Mass Destruction.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:10 pmnwmuse: The way the other candidates smirked and scoffed at Paul only made them look like the biggest bunch of losers. While they may have thought it gained them points, it did nothing of the kind. It made them look like a bunch of babies with their diapers in a wad!
Any moderator who has participated in this low-brow, classless pattern of disrespect will find themselves on unemployment lines when the Dems take back control of this country.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:11 pmPeople may laugh when so-called adults mock others but they are really laughing at those acting disrespectfully. It’s a double edged sword for anyone who makes a mockery of another - they become the mockery.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:12 pmLast night when Ron Paul urged everyone to take a deep breath and urged caution, reminding people of the Gulf of Tonkin and how anxious this current corrupt administration is to have an excuse to go to war with Iran, I thought the faces would fall off all the other candidates, and Britt Hume would fall out of his chair as soon as he quit sputtering all over himself..
January 11th, 2008 at 12:13 pmThe crowd did cheer though..
Where is the major media story about the Navy’s reassessment of its original dire report about the supposed “incident†at the Strait of Hormuz? ABC released the original story, then the mainstream media went silent on it. Where are the blazing headlines and the Breaking News announcements?
Comment by Ditch Mitch KY — January 11, 2008 @ 11:52 am
Your mistake is considering ABC a news organization. ABC, like Fox, is a propaganda outlet. It just delivers its propaganda in a different, more subtle, manner. Fox twists stories into a pretzel to fit their bias. ABC simply ignores stories. If ABC eventually offers a follow-up it’ll be brief and incomplete.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:13 pmhey francine: How about the non-proliferation treaties the US has signed, eh?? How are we stacking up there, yon piss-soaked troll?
January 11th, 2008 at 12:13 pmAs we approach the election we’ll see more of this. Repubs need a Mid-East”crisis” to remain in power and Muslim fanatics would like nothing more than the United States to enter into another major confrontation.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:14 pmDitchMitch: This confirms the case that fascism involves the mainstream media. Believe absolutely NOTHING you hear on television - the corporations are running the show and our government.
Use the internet exclusively for your news and bypass these sycophantic whoring corporate sponsors of fascism.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:14 pmI wonder what Bush would do if something REAL would ever happen, instead of all these staged, manufactured ‘terror’ scares.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:16 pmFrank: The research is all there - http://www.911truth.org is a beginning. Nothing of the 911 Commission version of the “story” is holding up….it’s all coming apart at the seams. You’re the one with not a tin foil hat but your head up your a$$ if you can’t see the handwriting on the wall, dude! And for your information, I’m “not” a dude but I can certainly roll up my sleeves and slay trolls with the best of them!
January 11th, 2008 at 12:16 pmRight on Annie…whack job is a real-life description…even his fellow whack-jobs in the south think so!!
January 11th, 2008 at 12:16 pm#31: Ah, Dr. Matt. Always with the “give me proof†demands. Why don’t you ask Veritas for proof. He’s making extraordinary claims about tin foil stuff like fake Bin Laden tapes.
Comment by Frank M — January 11, 2008 @ 12:14 pm
You’re the one that claimed Iran is a global threat….step up to the plate and give us proof of your rants.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:17 pmAgain, I ask our resident troll this one critical question which follows the adage “people in glass houses should never throw stones” - and the question is: ‘HOW HAS THIS COUNTRY HELD UP IT’S END OF THE NON-PROLIFERATION TREATY IT SIGNED??”
January 11th, 2008 at 12:17 pm#50: We invented the bomb and we can do whatever we want with the technology. And as I said in the previous thread, we as a nation are not subject to any other laws than ours and those can always be changed.
Comment by Frank M — January 11, 2008 @ 12:15 pm
You just proved you are a complete moron.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:18 pmQuestion #2 is: WHAT IS THE ONLY NATION TO EVER USE A NUCLEAR BOMB TO DESTROY???
AHEM….(GOTCHA!).
January 11th, 2008 at 12:18 pm#50: We invented the bomb and we can do whatever we want with the technology. And as I said in the previous thread, we as a nation are not subject to any other laws than ours and those can always be changed.
Comment by Frank M
You just make this crap up as you go along, don’t you. For your information, the U.S. is a signatory to many international laws. When the U.S. signs onto an international law, and it is ratified by Congress, it becomes U.S. law.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:19 pmGod, listen to these bloviating, flaccid jingoes waving their genitalia. Have a collection of human beings ever so lacked anything approximating a clue?
Credit where due; I don’t trust Ron Paul, but at least he produced a response approaching sanity to this pathetic nonsense.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:19 pmLet’s flag Frank for cluttering up our thread with drivel. Flag every one of his comments.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:19 pmWe invented the bomb and we can do whatever we want with the technology. — January 11, 2008 @ 12:15 pm
Frankie sounds just like a terrorist.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:20 pmWith the exception of Paul, all the Republicans seem to think that being President is easy- - just pojnt the Army and shoot.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:20 pmThese war mongers seem hell bent on self-destruction. They all need a good shrink instead of being on the campaign trail - first things, first.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:20 pmFor the record: you called me a “he”. You’re even more of a mindless moron than I’d imagined.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:21 pm#50: We invented the bomb and we can do whatever we want with the technology. And as I said in the previous thread, we as a nation are not subject to any other laws than ours and those can always be changed.
Comment by Frank M — January 11, 2008 @ 12:15 pm
And exactly how are planning you to control the other countries that have developed the bomb by themselves, or stolen the technology from your country or the URSS?
Oh, and its LAW in your nation to follow the international treaties. It’s not a foreing imposition, your country signed the treaties willfully. If you’re now violating the treaties, you’re infringing your own law.
Until changed, of course. But the law hasn’t changed. Your dear GOP was too busy breaking the law to change it.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:22 pmFrancine: See your comment #51, specifically sentence #2 and ask yourself if you aren’t even more unconscious than you’d previously believed. I rest my case. Begone troll!
January 11th, 2008 at 12:22 pmWhich is precisely why no one gives Frank M. even the most miniscule degree of credibility. He fictionalizes reality as he spews.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:22 pmLet’s all continue to ask the question of Frank until he’s blue in the face: How has the United States held up it’s end of the non-proliferation agreement? Then ask yourself about throwing stones from a glass house…..there’s no argument here - even for an moronic troll to spin.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:24 pmFrank Moron - glad you are here to show us what absolute idiots and psychos repukian subhuman scum are and what f’d up logic you are a capable of. You certainly are one sick mf’er.
Hi, I’m Frank, I am sick in the head and don’t have a clue.
Bush/Cheney
Hague Trials ‘09
Buck Fush
January 11th, 2008 at 12:25 pm70 - Not to mention that per Sibel Edmonds, Frankie’s neocon pals (Wolfowitz, Perle, Feith et. al) have been selling nuclear technology to (unfriendly) nations like Pakistan and Libya…
That way they get to have their war - and profit from it, too. Sweet!
January 11th, 2008 at 12:26 pmmuse: We already “know” from experience what the Chimp would do if there ever was a real threat which is what he did in the false flag attack on 911 - sit in a first grade classroom, speechless and devoid of expression, and continue to read “My Pet Goat” for over ten minutes while the towers fell and thousands died.
This is the caliber of the individual who calls himself president of this country. Sick.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:26 pmgee ron, don’t you know that is how your party makes money? wake up and smell the napalm.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:27 pmOf course, he had inside information about what was going to transpire so his expression was consistent with his complicity in it all - the fact is, this spineless whimp would probably be the first one down the rabbit hold closing the trap door behind him or en route to his compound in Paraguay where he will have to go in exile the moment he steps out of office.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:27 pmFrancine: Am I supposed to be flattered by your omission and indulgence? Get a grip yourself for even considering that you could possibly manipulate me in any way, shape or form.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:30 pmFrank is a slippery one.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:31 pmThe biggest asshat by a distance was Brit Hume.
His actual question to the candidates was “Did the captain [of the destroyer] make the correct call?”
Just admire the stupidity.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:31 pm#80 AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH! You’ve just outdone yourself in terms of idiocy! We have broken our non-proliferation treaty so have no leg to stand on with Iran or any other country at all. Inventing the stuff has absolutely nothing to do with the treaty whatsoever…….I guess when you’re pushed into a corner from which escape is impossible, you try to divert the conversation. Proprietary interests have absolutely nothing to do with this discussion. Take it somewhere else.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:31 pmUsing Frank’s logic, the first group to invent something is the only one that can do anything with it and to Hell with the rest of the world. Is that correct Frank?
January 11th, 2008 at 12:33 pm#73: As I already said in my previous posts, we may have or may have not stuck to non-proliferation treaties, but it doesn’t matter because unlike others, we invented the technology, we may do whatever we want with it and we’re not subject to anybody else’s laws anyway.
Comment by Frank M
What the hell is wrong with you? This shows how little respect these Republican fascists have for the law.
Frank, get this thru your thick skull. When the US signed the non-proliferation treaty, and it was ratified by Congress, IT BECAME US LAW!!!!
January 11th, 2008 at 12:33 pmhellinabucket: He thinks he’s slippery but, like a snake oil salesman, he has to get up pretty early to fool the TP bloggers. We “toy” with him whenever we want to entertain ourselves and make mincemeat of his comments. He’s our pet assclown.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:33 pmGreat point Dumb Fox. Is Hume asking the next potential presidents to question the military? Isn’t that the opposite of what the current job holder does? Aren’t we supposed to listen to the commanders in the field? Or does that only apply to actual fields and not bodies of water?
January 11th, 2008 at 12:35 pmShoeless: These Reptards seem incapable of understanding that this country has broken national and international laws as it proliferates itself nuclearly. This doesn’t seem to be a matter of concern to lawless criminals like most rethugs though.
Sadly, the international community will bring this country to it’s knees if/when we reach for Iran based on anti-nuclear proliferation when we are equally guilty under the law and will be punished by an international court for it as well.
We need to be extremely careful what we’re asking for here. If we touch Iran, this country will have hell to pay.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:35 pmI picture Frank looking into a mirror saying “Are you talking to me?”
January 11th, 2008 at 12:36 pmThis argument (anti-proliferation) cannot be spun any more, as I see it since we’re equally guilty under the law - national and international. Next thread, please.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:36 pm#80, Frances, there’s this little document that says that the treaties ratified by the Senate are the “supreme law of the land”.
That document is the Constitution of the United States.
So, yes, we are subject to international law.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:36 pmhellinabucket: I picture Frank looking into a mirror right now and wishing he were someone else! He’s become sheer mincemeat this morning on this thread. Comic relief is the way I view it. Something to laugh at.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:37 pmEh. Laws are for the little people, eh, Frankie…?
January 11th, 2008 at 12:38 pm#80, Frances, there’s this little document that says that the treaties ratified by the Senate are the “supreme law of the landâ€.
That document is the Constitution of the United States.
So, yes, we are subject to international law.
Comment by PeterW
“Stop throwing the Constitution in my face. It’s just a goddamned piece of paper!â€- George W. Bush
January 11th, 2008 at 12:38 pmThe only aspect which can be intelligently discussed is how this country is living up to it’s own laws & treaties when it comes to anti-proliferation. Everything else is just empty rhetoric based on a fear agenda by the Reptards. The way I see it is that we shouldn’t be going around flexing our integrity where we have none. We’re not “walking the talk” ourselves so we have absolutely no integrity whatsoever. We’d better be careful or the international courts will level the same charge against this country for doing the same thing we’re accusing Iran of doing. Turnabout is ALWAYS “FAIR PLAY”.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:40 pmFrank’s logic is we do whatever we have to do to ensure our survival. So if that means signing a treaty and then later ignoring it, so be it.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:40 pmHe also told me that any torture of any sort is absolutely ok with him. Including chopping off limbs and killing wives and children of whoever you’re interrogating.
That’s the kind of guy Frank is.
Veritas, I may not hold the same view of every single TP blogger here but I value the sincere opinions and the new paths to information not accessed by myself previously. That is what I value here.
I do also enjoy reading a great game of “Trollyball”. So many people come up with facts, jabs, insults and humor to bounce off the likes of Frank. I have laughed out loud many times since I’ve started coming here.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:40 pmYeah, that damn constitition along with the internets is going to land me in jail soon….GeorgiePorgie Bushco.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:40 pmFrank’s logic is we do whatever we have to do to ensure our survival. So if that means signing a treaty and then later ignoring it, so be it.
He also told me that any torture of any sort is absolutely ok with him. Including chopping off limbs and killing wives and children of whoever you’re interrogating.
That’s the kind of guy Frank is.
Comment by Wilco
Oh, I see. He’s a Republican.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:41 pm#73: As I already said in my previous posts, we may have or may have not stuck to non-proliferation treaties, but it doesn’t matter because unlike others, we invented the technology, we may do whatever we want with it and we’re not subject to anybody else’s laws anyway.
Comment by Frank M — January 11, 2008 @ 12:29 pm
And the nazis invented modern missiles. Are you going to pay the royalties for the thousands of nuclear and conventional missiles your country have to Germany?
Oh, and btw, the USA missile technology was developed by the same ones that developed the V-1 and V-2 in nazi Germany, as Werner Von Braun.
Nice moral authority.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:42 pmhellinabucket - we value your post and welcome you! We regulars here view the troll detritus as not only pure entertainment but a provision of insight into the “talking points” of the GOP. The trolls have provided one valuable service to us in that we are better able to recognize the lies and spin surrounding the litany of Bush Scandals du jour.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:42 pmIt’s always a charge to commit a blathering troll into a self-restraining corner. It’s quite facile with Frank M.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:44 pmAnd the history of our own violation of non-proliferation treaties and laws pins this discussion down handily and eliminates further avenues for any drooling troll to exploit.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:45 pmFrankly, I’m surprised that the site monitors have not sent an ambulance to Frank M’s IP address when he waxes on about violence.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:47 pmwow! that’s one of the scariest videos i have ever seen on TP.
except paul, the other candidates? all faux-warrior tough guys with no foreign policy experience whatsoever.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:47 pmCan we please refrain from calling anyone “crazy” or a “nutjob”? If you want to disagree with him fine but questioning his sanity tars ALL of his views since they are coming from someone supposedly not all there. I know for one that when trolls use the term “moonbat” or “loony left” I tune out immediately.
I am in no way voting for Paul over any Democrat but I do find a helluva lot of honesty and reality in his thoughts on war, the deficit and the Constitution. I know there has been a lot of digging turning up some uglier social views but to me the crazy ones are the others on the stage. Paul may look a little odd to you but that is because the others (including Dems) are coached so deep they even blink on cue.
Anyone who has the stones to go on FOX and call other Republicans “fascist” has my respect. I’ll tell you who’s crazy on that stage - the sadistic torturers, the warmongers, the wealthy tax cutting corporatists and the fascists.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:48 pmEvil Spaniard, Frank is NOT moral.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:49 pmHe is an ethical egoist. Whatever is best for him.
His stated philosophy is survivalism: whatever it takes to be safer.
Stressing, “whatever it takes”
I whole heartedly agree Veritas. I’ve always valued the trolls for what they brought out in other posters. Frank doesn’t hold a candle to a Mighty Aphrodite.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:49 pmIs Hume asking the next potential presidents to question the military? Isn’t that the opposite of what the current job holder does? Aren’t we supposed to listen to the commanders in the field? Or does that only apply to actual fields and not bodies of water?
Comment by hellinabucket — January 11, 2008 @ 12:35 pm
Maybe Brit’s just projecting his own mancrush fantasies. He doesn’t imagine a President in the White House juggling a thousand priorities amid a blizzard of conflicting information. No, he imagines a President on the bridge of a destroyer single-handedly defending us from terrorists and Borat doubles, maintaining world peace by taking potshots at brown people in speedboats.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:50 pmFrank is a slippery one.
Comment by hellinabucket
So is a salamander. But they aren’t very smart either.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:51 pmGerman and Japan developed the modern biological warfare weapons of today. According to the lunatic reich-winger, frankie, they can do whatever they want with them.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:51 pmType correction: “Germany and Japan….”
January 11th, 2008 at 12:52 pmEvil Spaniard, Frank is NOT moral.
He is an ethical egoist. Whatever is best for him.
His stated philosophy is survivalism: whatever it takes to be safer.
Stressing, “whatever it takesâ€
Comment by Wilco — January 11, 2008 @ 12:49 pm
Yes, I’ve seen a couple posts from him and really, its morality is always lacking and well, intellectuality… all his posts are one-liners… no depth, no links, no nothing.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:53 pmCan we please refrain from calling anyone “crazy†or a “nutjob�
Comment by lefty
I agree. Just call him a “Republican”. That’s bad enough.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:56 pmI agree. Just call him a “Republicanâ€. That’s bad enough.
The way they treat him I have no idea why he wants the nomination. Just run on your own.
January 11th, 2008 at 12:58 pmfor romney to suggest that paul is working for the enemy is, without a doubt, far beyond the limits of reasonable political discourse.
and, frankly, romney should have been dismissed from the debate.
and that people laughed?! americans are really scary people.
paul working for iran?! give me an EFFIN BREAK!
January 11th, 2008 at 12:58 pmDo you support Ron Paul’s Foreign Policy position?
http://www.youpolls.com/details.asp?pid=1507
.
January 11th, 2008 at 1:01 pmHis stated philosophy is survivalism: whatever it takes to be safer.
Stressing, “whatever it takesâ€
Comment by Wilco
Nahh, he is a derailer. JUst flag him.
January 11th, 2008 at 1:16 pmVENE, VIDI, VINCE??
January 11th, 2008 at 1:19 pmand that people laughed?! americans are really scary people.
paul working for iran?! give me an EFFIN BREAK!
Comment by darladoon
Well, to be truthful, there were also people booing Romney after that remark. I guess the Navy guy who told the voice may have not come from those speedboats is working for Iran too. Why Romney didn’t say that?
January 11th, 2008 at 1:19 pmRomney’s crack about Paul working for Ahmadinejad was just made to establish his credentials as an effective ’smear-er’. This is a key skill for Republican partisans, since facts have a known liberal bias.
/snark off.
I appreciate that TP is willing to watch the debates for me; I’d rather have dental surgery, personally. I’m sure I’d throw something at the TV.
January 11th, 2008 at 1:28 pm@20
Yes, this was about something readers of this blog agrees on with him. However, the first comment was how much of a whackjob he is, and people here feel he is based off of his fiscal initiatives and probably his strict constitutionalist standings.
I just ask, do you think people will be for all the great Democratic initiatives in a Democratic President in 2008 when they see the bill? It will just cause taxes to go up substantially to fund current commitments and entitlements. As you know, entitlement spending is head and shoulders above the military budget.
Entitlement Spending
So when I was asking who had Finance background, it was quite relevant. As it stands now, the way the government is run (big government) and if this was a public company, the entire executive team would not only be thrown out by the stockholders, the company would be bankrupt, as we are now.
The only way we’re functioning now is borrowing. I don’t feel comfortable voting for candidates who don’t plan on vastly cutting back on the scale of government. As it is noted, I was for Democrats taking back the WH until early this year.
January 11th, 2008 at 1:28 pmThe Chineese invented gunpowder. I here they are taking it all back.
January 11th, 2008 at 1:34 pmIt will just cause taxes to go up substantially to fund current commitments and entitlements. As you know, entitlement spending is head and shoulders above the military budget.
Comment by definiteform
Don’t worry; there is plenty of room to raise taxes. First, we slash military spending. Then we rescind Bush’s tax cuts for the wealthy. Set the Estate Tax at a fair level; raise the top income tax bracket to 70% (that’s where it was in the early 1960s). Corporations pay a lower share of the tax burden than at any time since before the depression, so raise corporate taxes. We can also reset capital gains and dividend taxes back to where they were in the early 90’s.
See, no problem.
January 11th, 2008 at 1:39 pm@124
just because entitlements outweigh defense spending does not in any way invalidate the claim that removing ourselves from military entanglements in the middle east would free up more dollars for domestic priorities. or that raising taxes on some of the wealthier segments in this country would either.
January 11th, 2008 at 1:40 pmThe Chineese invented gunpowder. I here they are taking it all back.
Comment by hellinabucket
Damn! That’s about the only thing we still make in this country!
January 11th, 2008 at 1:40 pmif corporations will leave the USA because democrats want to rescind the bush tax cuts, then democrats must question the patriotism of those corporations and their beneficiaries in congress.
January 11th, 2008 at 1:41 pmRon Paul is not representative of the rest of us but to the other Republicans on the stage HE IS. He is the dissenting opinion, the person who will not fall into place and that is enough. And just look at how he’s treated. With scorn, contempt and arrogance. Their respond using words like “absurd”, “dangerous” and they imply that he is way out there and irrelevant. They desperately want to keep views like his off of the television.
Just look at this clip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LW9P5btrZSs
Notice how they set up the question, it’s a classic Hannity technique - ask the person if they support or endorse someone else’s position and force them into a simplistic pro or con frame. The moron questioner actually seems to demand that Paul reject his supporters if he doesn’t accept the view.
This is what they have been trying to do to US for years now. Oh you don’t like the War, so you must be pro-Saddam. Oh you aren’t pro-life, then you are pro-abortion.
But the good news is that this technique has run it’s course. Just as this nonsense is driving people away from the GOP, Paul wins the FOX poll in the end. And in classic conservative fashion, Hannity refuses to accept when he has been clearly bested.
January 11th, 2008 at 1:43 pmWhen I first saw the footage of the supposed “Iran incident,” I thought it was a mock up by some comedian with bad Camtasia skills. And the voiceover was a joke of monumental proportions. I thought for sure it was from A Daily Show or Colbert.
That the people in our government actually took those frigging speedboats and voiceover seriously? Talk about inventing a reason to bomb bomb bomb Iran. This had to come from the cellars of BushCo cause it looked to be the level that Bush himself might have done. It was definitely of My Pet Goat substance and quality.
And people treat it as if it was a huge threat to our military. A frigging flare gun could have taken out those speedboats and I am sure had they gotten closer they would have.
A game of chicken with catastrophic possibilities.
January 11th, 2008 at 1:44 pmHannity in denial about the Paul poll win
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sICXSaiQExE
Is it just me or is the azz whoopin just getting started?
January 11th, 2008 at 1:45 pmThe video is a LIE! Watch ‘WAR ON DEMOCRACY’ and ‘STEALING A NATION’ by John Pilger at YOUTUBE.
January 11th, 2008 at 1:48 pmA game of chicken with catastrophic possibilities.-Comment by Ms_Joanne
Cheney’s been in hiding lately…what do you suppose he was doing or making up this time?…
making some videos of out of archived tape, perhaps?
January 11th, 2008 at 1:50 pm70% tax? Get real. Even I couldn’t ever support that! I hope that was a tpyo. :-)
How about a realistic number of 35% for the uber rich don’t pay anywhere near that much with all the deductions they get. I don’t want to screw over people who have accumulated wealth, I want them to pay their fair share (just as I expect the corporations to pay their fair share, like Wal-Mart playing Ponzi with the states they do business in. It’s wrong, it’s shady, but hey, it’s the American way.)
If anyone ever floats an outrageously silly number like 70%, it would probably be close to that amount of people who would call them insane.
Sorry, I am about as left leaning as you can get, but that’s just, well, silly.
January 11th, 2008 at 1:59 pmZimzone, that’s exactly what I thought it was…dummied up archive footage. But when I heard the supposed Iranians (a la Borat - no kidding if you haven’t heard it), first off, these supposed Iranians were clearer and louder than the people on the ship. It was so apparently dubbed in tracking that even I could have done a better job of making it more realistic.
I suppose Cheney thinks we are all stupid. While many, too many, Americans are just that, he forgets that us Liburals read (and think - critically even! WOW, WHODATHUNKIT?!?) and we’re not gonna fall for a Powell in front of the UN kind of crap again (I HOPE!!!!!)
January 11th, 2008 at 2:02 pmIf anyone ever floats an outrageously silly number like 70%, it would probably be close to that amount of people who would call them insane.
Sorry, I am about as left leaning as you can get, but that’s just, well, silly.
Comment by Ms_Joanne
Would you say that John F. Kennedy was silly or insane?
January 11th, 2008 at 2:06 pmHe meant “tax bracket†not “tax rateâ€.
Comment by justasking
Yes, thank you.
January 11th, 2008 at 2:07 pmjustasking, thanks for clearning that up. I have seen that number posted before and it was always in rate. We’re called lefty loonies and with someone floating a 70% tax rate, I would agree. (Did I just call myself loony? Hmmm… ;-)
And shoeless, I can’t address JFK but from memories of the tv news my parents watched. I was too young to remember or know much of his administration other than he was brutally murdered. His entire administration is in the hands of historians. And they are a tad too notorious for me to rely upon. Were you there? Do tell.
January 11th, 2008 at 2:11 pmActually, I did mean the top marginal tax rate should be 70%. I was young in the early 60’s, but I do know that JFK got Congress to set the top marginal tax rate at 70%. Before he was elected, it was 91%. However, there were so many outrageous loopholes that the wealthy actually paid very little. Kennedy raised total revenue by cutting the top marginal income tax rate from 91% to 70%, but also closing many of the loopholes.
January 11th, 2008 at 2:17 pmJanuary 11th, 2008 at 2:22 pm
justasking, I think the problem comes in where that 70% number is floated around, it is the assumption (or reality) of rate vs. bracket. Rate, to me, is ridiculous. If it’s bracket, what’s the rate?
Without specific details like that being pushed out (and shoeless said he meant rate), no one will ever take it seriously. I wouldn’t and I am far from that bracket (or rate :-)
January 11th, 2008 at 2:24 pm#145, and that top marginal rate above which you’d have paid 91% (under Eisenhower) or 70% (under Kennedy) was about $4 mil in today’s dollars. All income earned below that was taxed at a much lower rate.
In other words, the rich are still rich. It just becomes increasingly difficult to accumulate income above that $4 million mark.
Honestly, I don’t have any problem with those rates. Let the rich be rich - but it’s a danger to the Republic to allow the formation of the super-rich.
January 11th, 2008 at 2:26 pm#149, ridiculous or not, that was the rate people paid on incomes over $4 million a year (in today’s dollars) during the longest period of broad-based prosperity in this country’s history.
January 11th, 2008 at 2:28 pm#150, what 63% tax bracket? The current highest tax bracket is 35% (on income above $174k).
January 11th, 2008 at 2:30 pmI am totally lost. Rate? Bracket? Definitions please.
I know what I make and my tax RATE. I have no idea what bracket that puts me in other than in dollar amounts for what I pay when I look at the tax tables.
Maybe I should step out of this discussion…but please do enlighten me. I do have an unquenchable thirst for knowledge!
January 11th, 2008 at 2:41 pmSee this and every other clip from the debates at:
http://debates.redlasso.com/dbt
January 11th, 2008 at 2:41 pmVideo - Ron Paul Wins Debate, Hannity Displeased
January 11th, 2008 at 2:41 pmhttp://test.redlasso.com/ service/ svc/ clip/ playClip?fid=a2126cdb-4b96-4694-a11f-e96643b2c67b
shoeless - just wanted to tell you that you have been on fire today!
Thanks to you and all of our other posters. You all rock!
January 11th, 2008 at 2:41 pmPeter, thank you (I think I remember you have an MBA from UM, correct?)
I didn’t think there was a higher percentage paid than 35% and that was at the highest for the wealthy. Once deductions kick in it’s far less. Of course, I have already shown my lack of knowledge, but hey, that never stopped me before. (wink)
January 11th, 2008 at 2:43 pmI did mean the top marginal tax rate. It wasn’t that long ago. It was 70% until Ronald Reagan came along (1964-1981).
January 11th, 2008 at 2:46 pmBracket is the percentage of income that you pay to taxes. Rate is the amount that you pay on that percentage.
Comment by justasking — January 11, 2008 @ 2:45 pm
This makes no sense. You’re basically saying the same thing which result in different figures.
An income bracket is an echelon of taxpayers reporting similar income levels. (Wikipedia).
Comment by justasking — January 11, 2008 @ 2:56 pm
This makes more sense and was closer to what I thought it was (although I still don’t know what bracket I am in other than I am luckily still solidly middle class (barring a pink slip or some other catastrophic event LIKE ANOTHER WAR).
January 11th, 2008 at 3:01 pmRon will have to leave the GOP after this - he’s too big a liability to them.
January 11th, 2008 at 3:16 pmHey guys, the only reason I went off on that was because of a thread in The CarpetBagger Report the other day where someone floated the 70% number as being from the “loony left.”
Didn’t mean to belabor the point! :-)
January 11th, 2008 at 3:19 pmIf you meant 70% marginal tax rate I don’t see how’s that’s possible either.
Comment by justasking
I did mean that. I was marginally (pun intended) confused when you brought up bracket. It obviously is possible, since the top marginal rate was 70% from 1964 to 1981, when Reagan cut it to 35%. It just shows how far the wingnuts have pushed the discussion to the right when no one can now conceive of such a thing.
January 11th, 2008 at 3:22 pmBack to the subject.
This is exactly why Fox originally banned Ron Paul from the previously scheduled debate. He flatters himself by saying they didn’t want him because he is a “strict Constitutionalist”. No, he was banned because is against Bush’s Occupation of Iraq, and he has occasionally even committed the cardinal sin of offering mild criticism of Lord Bush himself. For Fixed News, it is still all about Bush, and it always will be. Aside from personal attacks on Hillary Clinton, updates on Brittany Spears and the missing blond of the week, the only remaining justification for the existance of Pox News is protection of their little hothouse orchid in the Oval Office.
January 11th, 2008 at 3:30 pmPox News! PRICELESS!!
If only we could wish a pox on them!
January 11th, 2008 at 3:34 pmWe invented the bomb and we can do whatever we want with the technology.
-Comment by Frank M
Well, there you go. Instead of trying to threaten with military force those countries developing nuclear weapons, we should just sue them for copyright infringement.
“Dear Leader! The Americans are taking us to court over our nuclear program!”
“What????? God, how I hate trial lawyers!!!”
January 11th, 2008 at 3:41 pmRon Paul scares the Hell out of ‘established’ broadcasters, politicians and TV networks.
Watch the YouTube video on Hannity disagreeing that Paul won, it’s quite priceless.
But Lo & Behold, Mittens squeaked it out in the closing moments…which made me wonder; do Trolls text message on cue when asked, just like they appear here in rotating shifts?
January 11th, 2008 at 3:42 pmJustasking, tax brackets aren’t measured in percentiles - they are ranges of income and a rate associated with it.
Ms_Joanne, here’s how it works. Different amounts of income are taxed at different rates. Those ranges of incomes are called “brackets”.
You pay the first tax rate on all income earned within the first bracket. If you make enough money to be in the next bracket, you pay the higher rate on that portion of your income that’s above the top of the bottom bracket (but not the higher rate on the portion of your income below the top bracket).
This means that if you’re in the 35% tax bracket, you don’t actually pay 35% - you only pay 35% on the income above the threshold to put you in that bracket. For example, someone making $100,000 (after deductions) is in the 33% tax bracket (which begins at about $98k), but pays less than 22% total tax rate, because only the top sliver of that $100,000 is taxed at the highest rate. Factor in deductions, and the federal tax on raw income ends up being significantly less than 22%.
Right now, a person making $4 million after deductions pays 34.5% tax (since almost all of his income is taxed in the 35% tax bracket). Were we to add back in that old Kennedy-era marginal tax rate at the inflation-adjusted bracket, this person would only pay the 70% on income above that $4 million. That is, if they made $5 million in taxable income, they’d pay 34.5% on the first $4 million (like they do now) and 70% on the next million (or any amount above that).
Most people think their total tax rate jumps suddenly when their income moves up a bracket - it does not. Income above given amounts gets taxed at higher rates.
January 11th, 2008 at 3:50 pmThank you for covering this.
Ron Paul is trying so hard to stand up for all of us and his message is very important.
If you’re a democrat in Michigan please vote for him as they have no chance to get delegates.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ wp-dyn/ content/ article/ 2007/ 12/ 01/ AR2007120100722.html
He will end the war!
He wants to protect civil liberties and make our country great again.
Just ask Dennis Kucinich:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=py8cXlLyX18
thank you.
January 11th, 2008 at 4:03 pmI nominate Peter for president. He has a better clue than the majority of those running. (Thanks, btw, I completely got that!)
Now, Peter…can you give Rudi 9u11iani an idea about taxes. He needs it.
January 11th, 2008 at 4:10 pmI don’t understand many of the posts here. Democrats complain about the war but the candidates running voted for it. You guys accuse the Republicans of hatred, bigotry, etc. but obviously don’t read your own posts. Personally, I couldn’t care less about your party affiliation because that doesn’t matter. I believe in ending the war, personally liberties, less taxes, and concentrating on fixing the budget problems the Bush administration created. I want decreased spending and stopping America from policing the world. There is only one candidate, Democrat or Republican with a voting record indicative of these beliefs and it’s Ron Paul. The others are flip flopping phonies and their records prove it.
January 11th, 2008 at 4:11 pmHe [Paul] wants to protect civil liberties …
Comment by Constitutionalist
…unless you are an African American. Always keep in mind that Ron Paul wants to repeal the Civil Rights Act of 1964.
I have seen that video of Kucinich. While I find it admirable that he would fill his cabinet with people who disagree with him (as did Lincoln), I think it would be a mistake to pick someone who is such an extremist for Vice President.
January 11th, 2008 at 4:15 pmI nominate Peter for president. He has a better clue than the majority of those running. (Thanks, btw, I completely got that!)
Now, Peter…can you give Rudi 9u11iani an idea about taxes. He needs it.
Comment by Ms_Joanne
I agree. Thanks Peter. That was an excellent explanation. You made it easy for us dummies to understand.
January 11th, 2008 at 4:17 pmInteresting observation.
You people won’t support Ron Paul because he’s a threat to you’re vision of a welfare state.
Republicans and Democrats are the same, they both just want more and more government to no limit. They both wage wars, they both lie and steal, they both support large corporate profits, etc, etc, etc.
You guys don’t even see your one and the same.
January 11th, 2008 at 4:36 pmi agree with gitrdone(181). you people astonish me. Have Ron Paul debate the issues with any candidate republican or dem and he will whipe the floor with them all. this country needs a serious douching and he is the plastic nozzle. wake up people they are stealing your country!
January 11th, 2008 at 4:46 pmHey Git, I seem to recall Obama ALWAYS being against the war. Check his voting record and his speeches.
And know what? I would rather a welfare state for PEOPLE than a corporate welfare state. I want to see my taxes go back into roads and infrastructure and not into Haliburton, Blackwater and the MIC. Ron Paul is for limited government. Sorry, we need stuff like infrastructure (which also gives Americans reasonably well paying jobs which stimulates the economy).
Sorry, RP isn’t the be all end all. Far from it.
January 11th, 2008 at 4:49 pmMs_Joanne.
Thats all fine and dandy, but the problem is the nation can’t afford it anymore as a result of past republican and democratic parties who have driven the country into never-ending debt.
You really think Obama is all about change?
Great, he has a small record and he’s a good speaker…but do you really think that is enough for America? As long as the U.S stays on it’s current form of governing, there is no room for change.
Change will only come from changing the system itself…not voting for the status quo of the Republicans and democrats.
Keep dreaming for change.
January 11th, 2008 at 4:55 pmWhat we in Europe still don’t understand is that Americans always cry freedom not realizing that freedom among other things comes from a goverment that takes care of basics like healthcare, education etc. Otherwise it’s just the rights of the strongest prevailing and thats just the 1% realy wealthy so no…that does not include you.
I like America and I like Americans - so please get your country back under control before it all falls apart. These Republican cowboys are fun to watch but realy…these people don’t have the brains to run a country. Give them a job in Hollywood or whatever - but for God’s sake don’t make them President!
January 11th, 2008 at 5:06 pmbtw maybe this is fun - tells you how to vote based on some statements:
January 11th, 2008 at 5:13 pmhttp://www.eenvandaag.nl/stemwijzerusa/en/