Bush Disowns U.S. Intel, Tells Israelis Iran NIE ‘Doesn’t Reflect My Own Views’
Bush Disowns U.S. Intel, Tells Israelis Iran NIE ‘Doesn’t Reflect My Own Views’
After the recent National Intelligence Estimate on Iran was released, Israel publicly challenged the U.S. intelligence consensus that Iran had stopped its nuclear weapons program. “In our opinion,” Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak said, Iran “has apparently continued that program.”
Just days after the NIE was released, Bush quickly announced he would make the first visit to Israel of his presidency to mend differences over Iran.
In private meetings with Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert this week, Newsweek reports that President Bush disowned the U.S. intelligence community’s judgments:
But in private conversations with Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert last week, the president all but disowned the document, said a senior administration official who accompanied Bush on his six-nation trip to the Mideast. “He told the Israelis that he can’t control what the intelligence community says, but that [the NIE's] conclusions don’t reflect his own views” about Iran’s nuclear-weapons program, said the official, who would discuss intelligence matters only on the condition of anonymity.
Bush had reportedly briefed Olmert about the Iran NIE days before it was publicly released in late November. The New Yorker’s Seymour Hersh said, “The Israelis were very upset about the report. They think we’re naive, they don’t think we get it right. And so they have a different point of view.”
But after his private meetings with Bush this week, Olmert — asked whether he felt reassured — replied, “I am very happy.”
UPDATE: Speaking in the United Arab Emirates, Bush said the United States and Arab allies must join together to confront the danger of Iran “before it’s too late.”
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Shorter Bush: “Don’t confuse me with facts; I’ve made up my mind.”
January 13th, 2008 at 10:57 amToo bad the senior administration official doesn’t tell us upon what Bush DOES use to come to his conclusion. My guess is that wishful thinking comes into play.
January 13th, 2008 at 11:03 amWhen it comes to “intelligence”, GDumbya isn’t entitled to a view or a comment. He wouldn’t recognize “intelligence” if it sneaked up and bit him in his ass. And no one else ever uses the words “GDumbya” and “intelligence” in the same sentence.
January 13th, 2008 at 11:05 amPresident Stillson’s advisors: “Mr. President, we have a diplomatic solution.”
President Stillson: “Gentlemen, the missiles are flying. Hallelujah, Hallelujah!”
Bush in a nutshell.
January 13th, 2008 at 11:06 amDoes anyone seriously think Bush has even read the NIE? It’s just more noise from the reality-based community.
He didn’t believe the intelligence community when they warned him of an imminent attack on 9/11. He didn’t believe the intelligence community when they told him Iraq didn’t have weapons of mass destruction. Why should he believe them now?
We’ve been attacked and in turn attacked another nation based on willful ignorance and misrepresentation of intelligence. We can only pray that there isn’t enough time left for this lame duck to kill again.
January 13th, 2008 at 11:07 amThe White House’s propaganda campaign laying the groundwork for military action against Iran dates back almost six years—to Bush’s 2002 State of the Union address in which he designated Iran as a founding member of the “axis of evil.†Since then, this drumbeat has waxed and waned as other concerns—primarily the disastrous invasion and occupation of Iraq—have often commanded center stage. Now, with the Bush administration in its final year in office, a renewed push and a shorter fuse are increasingly evident. My 3-minute YouTube video entitled “Forewarned Is Forearmed: Bush On Iran†is available HERE. It offers a brief but troubling chronicle of the president’s public warmongering and demonization of Iran.
Such manipulation of public sentiment has also been a key part of the White House’s entire Iraq war enterprise, so we should not be surprised to see it play a similar role in regard to Iran. For those interested in a psychological analysis of this warmongering, I have also recently completed a 10-minute YouTube video entitled “Resisting the Drums of War.†It examines how the Bush administration’s messaging targets five core concerns that often govern our lives–concerns about vulnerability, injustice, distrust, superiority, and helplessness. The video describes these warmongering appeals and offers suggestions for how to counter them. It’s available for viewing HERE.
January 13th, 2008 at 11:13 amIran may have to consider the newly created doctrine of preemption. Clearly the US and Israel pose a real threat to their nation. Can you expect them to stand by and wait for a mushroom cloud over Tehran? Could history blame them for simply being proactive in defense of their sovereignty?
January 13th, 2008 at 11:14 am“He told the Israelis that he can’t control what the intelligence community says”
Isn’t it un-ethical to even try to control what the intelligence community says?
Maybe one of our trolls could explain this to me.
January 13th, 2008 at 11:14 amBush : “My views have no factual basis in the Real World.”
January 13th, 2008 at 11:15 amBush is a small man with a huge ego. He has a world view that mirros his self-image of being a great leader and visionary. Since the facts will never support his inflated self-image, he has to select the ones he likes, or just make them up.
January 13th, 2008 at 11:17 amthat’s “mirrors”
January 13th, 2008 at 11:17 ammostly smoke and mirrors
January 13th, 2008 at 11:18 amFor Iran to launch an attack on America or Israel with Nuclear weapons would be like Iran launching an attack on the US Navy with speedboats.
January 13th, 2008 at 11:20 am“He told the Israelis that he can’t control what the intelligence community says, but that [the NIE’s] conclusions don’t reflect his own viewsâ€
This is absolutely stunning to me. He is dismissing the professional opinions of all 16 intelligence agencies because they don’t “reflect his own views”! This is madness. Pure madness.
January 13th, 2008 at 11:21 amThe continual push for war:
ABU DHABI, United Arab Emirates – President Bush said Sunday that Iran is threatening the security of the world, and that the United States and Arab allies must join together to confront the danger “before it’s too late.”
January 13th, 2008 at 11:22 amhttp://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200…
For Iran to launch an attack on America or Israel with Nuclear weapons would be like Iran launching an attack on the US Navy with speedboats.
Comment by Badger — January 13, 2008 @ 11:20 am
Since they actually have speedboats but not nuclear weapons, not really =)
They could try attacking the Navy with speedboats but it would be like swatting gnats.
January 13th, 2008 at 11:24 amAs far as attacking with nukes, they can’t, since the have none.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/17/magazine/17BUSH.html?ex=1151899200&en=079d03a2a9db7c23&ei=5070
It was during a press conference on Sept. 16, 2001, in response to a question about homeland security efforts infringing on civil rights, that Bush first used the telltale word ”crusade” in public. ”This is a new kind of — a new kind of evil,” he said. ”And we understand. And the American people are beginning to understand. This crusade, this war on terrorism is going to take a while.”
In the summer of 2002, after I had written an article in Esquire that the White House didn’t like about Bush’s former communications director, Karen Hughes, I had a meeting with a senior adviser to Bush. He expressed the White House’s displeasure, and then he told me something that at the time I didn’t fully comprehend — but which I now believe gets to the very heart of the Bush presidency.
The aide said that guys like me were ”in what we call the reality-based community,” which he defined as people who ”believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality.” I nodded and murmured something about enlightenment principles and empiricism. He cut me off. ”That’s not the way the world really works anymore,” he continued. ”We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you’re studying that reality — judiciously, as you will — we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.”
Who besides guys like me are part of the reality-based community? Many of the other elected officials in Washington, it would seem. A group of Democratic and Republican members of Congress were called in to discuss Iraq sometime before the October 2002 vote authorizing Bush to move forward. A Republican senator recently told Time Magazine that the president walked in and said: ”Look, I want your vote. I’m not going to debate it with you.” When one of the senators began to ask a question, Bush snapped, ”Look, I’m not going to debate it with you.”
January 13th, 2008 at 11:26 amComment by Wayne — January 13, 2008 @ 11:24 am
Notice that Iran was smart enough to NOT ATTACK with their speedboats. But I stand corrected.
January 13th, 2008 at 11:28 amThere exists within the government a parallel military / intelligence service – an entire parallel secret structure which is extra-constitutional – designed specifically to change the structure of government from a Representative Republic to a Fascist Dictatorship.
The model for this structure was known as “Gladio” in the late 1940s – having fallen under the control of the CIA in 1966.
The premise is to use a few inside operatives to stage massive terror events for the purpose of instilling enough fear in the populace that they willingly trade freedom for security.
THOSE WHO FAIL TO STUDY THE LESSONS OF HISTORY ARE DOOMED TO REPEAT THEM.
Michael Ledeen has studied the lessons of history – and has applied them to his own agenda.
High Treason
From Wikipedia
“High treason, broadly defined, is an action which is grossly disloyal to one’s country or sovereign.
Participating in a war against one’s country, attempting to overthrow its government, and attempting to kill its head of state are perhaps the best known examples of high treason.”
Two out of three ought to do it.
The Bush Administration attacked America on 9/11 for the express purpose of overthrowing the then-existing form of government. While the Administration dubbed their atttack on US soil “The War ON Terror,” it is more aptly named “The War OF Terror,” a “war” of their own creation.
H I G H
T R E A S O N
Timewatch: Operation Gladio – Behind False Flag Terrorism & 9/11
Watch the “Gladio†video here: (part1)
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-4900756773650110959
WATCH ALL THREE PARTS – ALL TERROR IS STATE SPONSORED – ALL OF IT.
January 13th, 2008 at 11:28 amThis is madness. Pure madness.
Comment by DigDug — January 13, 2008 @ 11:21 am
I wonder if history will eventually label him King George the Mad or just King George the Dumb.
January 13th, 2008 at 11:29 amLet’s say that a career intelligence operative came to your house and sat you down and told you the truth.
Let’s say they told you that just for starters, there is no “Osama Bin Laden.”
Would you accept it? Then what? You’d be forced to think about ALL of the ramifications of that reality in the context of EVERY other piece of information that ties to that name.
Now who is your enemy? Who else knows this truth and what actions are they taking?
The media knows.
The politicians know.
Now what?
Swallow hard and listen.
Let’s say the next thing you were told is that it was going to be virtually impossible for the stock market to fall under Greenspan’s gamesmanship – thanks to the Treasury in the market whenever they need to be using their PPT operations to prevent declines.
Let’s say you were informed that “Nothing Is At It Appears – LITERALLY NOTHING!”
Let’s say you were further told that the chaos in Iraq was actually by design, and that winning was never the goal.
Now let’s say you were informed that Dov Zakheim stole $7 trillion from the Defense Department and sent it to Israel.
Confusing, isn’t it?
But it is the truth.
Let’s say you were told to “go on about your business – just live your lives, go to your jobs, send your kids to college, watch your TV and take your vacations – and let us worry about the ugly stuff.”
How arrogant, right? Sounds true though, doesn’t it?
How would you feel?
What would you do with this information?
Would you still be trying to silence those who actually have this knowledge?
Just think about it.
Make sure that the uncomfortable feeling generated by these sad realities is not being misguided into hateful or hurtful energies on these threads, when your mind might be better utilized to bring about positive change to reveal the truth and put a stop to it.
The foregoing is the truth.
What are you going to do?
January 13th, 2008 at 11:30 amBush doesn’t believe the NIE because the only one he listens to other than himself is Cheney. If Cheney says it, it must be true. Let’s face it these two traitors want this country involved in another war before they leave office. They should both be impeached and then tried for high treason, and made to pay the full punishment, no pardons. They will sell this country and its future, to say nothing of its youth, down the river for oil profits. Let us not forget they are both heavily endowed with oil stocks and then there is the Bushco Crime family’s connection with Mid-East oil barons. “What further proof do we need?”
January 13th, 2008 at 11:30 amoh yea… the drum beats continue:
Bush says US, allies must confront Iran
By ANNE GEARAN, AP Diplomatic Writer 1 hour, 46 minutes ago
ABU DHABI, United Arab Emirates – President Bush said Sunday that Iran is threatening the security of the world, and that the United States and Arab allies must join together to confront the danger “before it’s too late.”
Bush said Iran funds terrorist extremists, undermines stability in Lebanon, sends arms to the hardline Taliban regime, intimidates its neighbors with alarming rhetoric and defies the United Nations by refusing to be open about its nuclear program.
“Iran is the world’s leading state sponsor of terror,” Bush said in a speech about democracy that he delivered about midway through his eight-day Mideast trip, which began with a renewed push for an Israeli-Palestinian peace pact — an accord he said whose “time has come.”
Chiding U.S. allies who have withheld civil liberties, Bush said
January 13th, 2008 at 11:31 am[blah blah blah - amazing... you won't believe it...] [well, yes you will]
[...]
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080113/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_mideast
Bush said Iran funds terrorist extremists, undermines stability in Lebanon, sends arms to the hardline Taliban regime, intimidates its neighbors with alarming rhetoric and defies the United Nations by refusing to be open about its nuclear program.
This sounds suprisingly like Reagan’s Central America policy
January 13th, 2008 at 11:34 amOf course.
Being the steadfast leader that he is, Pres Bush will not be swayed -let alone dissuaded- by petty little things like facts and evidence.
It’s all about beliefs and blind faith in them. It’s what the Bush followers have been telling us for years…
January 13th, 2008 at 11:36 amhaven’t we heard all this stuff about a gathering and looming threat before?
January 13th, 2008 at 11:36 am“He told the Israelis that he can’t control what the intelligence community says, but that [the NIE’s] conclusions don’t reflect his own viewsâ€
“He told the Israelis that he can’t control what the intelligence community says any longer, but that [the NIE’s] conclusions don’t reflect his own viewsâ€
There Bush, I fixed it for you. The US intelligence communities finally decided to stop allowing Bush/Chaney to influence their findings, like they did with Iraq, and to do the right thing. They realized that if they allowed Bush/Chaney to influence their findings again, that it could and probably would lead to World War III.
January 13th, 2008 at 11:38 am“Good Morning to you, Good Morning to you! This is WWSW in Pittsburgh, PA…” Sorry, that was a fifty-year plus flashback to radio-land when I was a kid with my AM radio… Back to the business at hand …
It’s plain that the Bush “brain” is totally insane… What planet is this clown on? Planet Insanity has been claimed by Bush as his very own special place, where he can go for his quiet time, his timeouts, his west and welazation, as Elmer Fudd would say…
OK, sound the All Clear; nuthin’ between the ears on this one…
January 13th, 2008 at 11:38 amIsn’t Bush in effect saying:
As commandeer in chief I have not been able to appoint people competent enough to manage these agencies so that the intelligence they gather is reliable. Information provided by my administration is suspect.
I do think the reality is that he only believes what he wants to believe and damn the facts.
January 13th, 2008 at 11:39 ambilbo, I have another variation for you:
“He told the Israelis that he can’t control what REALITY is, but that [the NIE’s] conclusions don’t reflect his own views, i.e what he wants to believe.â€
January 13th, 2008 at 11:44 ameve, Great Minds, I guess.
January 13th, 2008 at 11:44 amWhen do you call it treason? Did congress re write the laws to make being the agent of another country trump everything?
I forgot, 80% of them are, so I guess the answer is, yes.
appears only the people are Americans. Our government is Phizerish, or Saudi, Exxonic, Shellian.
best wake up folks
January 13th, 2008 at 11:45 amThere are reports coming from the Middle East that ,after meeting between Bush and (Bibi) Benjamin Natanyahu , Bush promised Bibi that US will go with Israel in a joint nuclear attack against Iran…
Looks like World War III is in the making,and the PNAC doctrine is in place. The Natanyahu ‘Clean break’- A strategy For Securing The [Israeli] Realm- now is a reality.
January 13th, 2008 at 11:49 amBush said Iran funds terrorist extremists, undermines stability in Lebanon, sends arms to the hardline Taliban regime, intimidates its neighbors with alarming rhetoric and defies the United Nations by refusing to be open about its nuclear program.
So, where i s this “alarming rhetoric” that they are scaring their neighbors with? I haven’t read anything about this.
The US funds terrorist extremists (Israel), undermines the stability of the middle east by invading Iraq, sends arms to whatever faction in Iraq they want to reward for not killing us and defies the United Nations by invading Iraq. Sounds to me like the US is the worlds largest terrorist threat.
Also, regarding his assertion that “defies the United Nations by refusing to be open about its nuclear program”, the United Nations appears to be satisfied that Iran does not have a nuclear weapon program, as does pretty much the rest of the world. So Iran IS NOT defying the United Nations.
January 13th, 2008 at 11:49 amREAD EVERY WORD
THIS WOMAN WAS ON THE INSIDE
SHE KNOWS THE TRUTH
http://www.lewrockwell.com/kwiatkowski/kwiatkowski159.html
Are We Mice or Men?
by Karen Kwiatkowski
In 2002, I worked in the Office of the Secretary of Defense. Many of the same men I observed rolling out the red carpet for an unwarranted, unnecessary and lie-based invasion of Iraq remain inside the Pentagon. These include former director of the Iraq-oriented Office of Special Plans between August 2002 and August 2003, Dr. Abram Shulsky. That mission accomplished, Dr. Shulsky remains in the employ of the American people.
So too, serving the people, are Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, and Stephen Cambone. Shulsky’s one-time supervisor managing Middle East policy concerns, Bill Luti, left the Pentagon for a position in the National Security Council. George W. Bush remains wholly submerged in his prudence deprivation chamber, wondering exactly which day Armageddon will start. Impatient and immoral child that he is, he demands it be soon.
The chickenhawks are at it again. They may tragically succeed in their quest, this time Operation Target Iran. Perhaps it was always about Iran. Will we ever really know?
January 13th, 2008 at 11:52 amKaren Kwiatkowski
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/entity.jsp?entity=david_wurmser
David Wurmser actively participated in the following events:
July 8, 1996 Events Leading to Iraq Invasion
The Institute for Advanced Strategic and Political Studies, an Israeli think tank, publishes a paper titled “A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm.†[Guardian, 9/3/02; Washington Times, 10/7/03; Chicago Sun-Times, 3/6/03] The paper, whose lead author is Richard Perle, advises the new, right-wing Israeli leader Benjamin Netanyahu to break with the policies of the previous government by adopting a strategy “based on an entirely new intellectual foundation, one that restores strategic initiative and provides the nation the room to engage every possible energy on rebuilding Zionism ….†Much along the lines of an earlier paper by Israeli Oded Yinon , the document urges the Israelis to aggressively seek the downfall of their Arab neighbors—especially Syria and Iraq—by exploiting the inherent tensions within and among the Arab States. Specifically, it recommends that Israel work with Turkey and Jordan to remove Saddam Hussein from power as a means of “foiling Syria’s regional ambitions.†[Institute for Advanced Strategic and Political Studies, 7/8/96; Carnegie Endowment for Peace, 3/19/03; Guardian, 9/3/02 Sources: A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm] Other suggestions for Israel include abandoning the Oslo Accords, developing a foreign policy based on a traditional balance of power strategy, reserving its right to invade the West Bank and Gaza Strip as part of a strategy of “self-defense,†abandoning any notion of “land for peace,†reestablishing a policy of preemptive strikes, forging closer ties to the US while taking steps towards self-reliance, and seeking an alternative to Yasser Arafat as leader of the PLO. [Guardian, 9/3/02; Institute for Advanced Strategic and Political Studies, 7/8/96 Sources: A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm]
People and organizations involved: Douglas Feith, Jeffrey T. Bergner, Richard Armitage, Richard V. Allen, Benjamin Netanyahu, Richard Perle, A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm, James Colbert, Charles Fairbanks, Jr., Jonathan Torop, Meyrav Wurmser, Robert Loewenberg, David Wurmser
January 13th, 2008 at 11:54 amIt appears that Israel OWNS the US government. When did that happen?
I am hoping that our American military will mutiny when they are asked to launch a nuclear attack on Iran.
Can you imagine what dropping a nuclear weapon in Iran would do to our already shattered image in the rest of the world. We may never be able to recover from something that awful. Our country would become the pariah of the world.
January 13th, 2008 at 11:54 amhttp://www.q-and-a.org/Transcript/?ProgramID=1069
C-SPAN Interview April 2, 2006
Lt. Col. Karen Kwiatkowski
U.S. Air Force, 1983-2003
KEY QUOTE:
LAMB: You wrote one of the things that we don’t often hear from inside, that Bill Luti referred to the Chief of Central Command, Anthony Zinni, as a traitor.
KWIATKOSKI: Former Chief of Central Command Anthony Zinni, Tommy Frank’s predecessor. Yes, he did, and right in front of the refrigerator that sat two feet from my desk.
There was a huge contempt, and Bill Luti is not the only one. But, among the neo-conservatives in and out of the Pentagon and, of course, you can read their writings even at the time, a huge sense of collective derision, collective contempt for people that were like Anthony Zinni, people that were saying, â€We need to sit down and think about what we’re saying. We need to see how this fits in with America’s national security interests. We need to be sure that what we’re saying about Iraq’s capability, Iraq’s connection to terrorism, and anybody else’s capability in connection to terrorism, we need to be sure that what we say is checked out.â€
January 13th, 2008 at 11:54 am“Mr Bush is a man who is very proud of the person he believes himself to be, but he is, in fact, the opposite of that person.”
January 13th, 2008 at 11:56 amJon Stewart
According to Bob Woodward’s newest book “State Of Denial†Henry Kissinger has been advising President Bush and Vice President Cheney about Iraq, telling them that “victory is the only meaningful exit strategy,”
No “Victory†– No “Exit†– Ever. As long as you never define “victory.†Get it?
Kissinger was nearly the head of the CFR Whitewash 911 commission before Zelikow was installed to guard the evidence, and protect the guilty.
Today, Kissinger still continues to serve as a trustee of the powerful Rockefeller Brothers Fund, as a counselor to Rockefellers’ Chase Manhattan Bank, and as a member of Chase’s International Advisory Committee. Kissinger’s media influence is evident from his having served on the board of CBS, Inc., and having been a paid consultant to both NBC News and ABC News. That takes care of all three networks.
the Rockefellers run our political system, as well as our banking system (the Fed) our oil companies (Exxon Mobil) the Big Pharma companies, and most of the Airline industry… The list goes on.
With Heinz Kissinger over-lording the white house, & James Baker III (the Carlyle Group – and Bush family consigliere) sitting at the Oval Office desk (He has an un-official office there full time, but the media goes along with his story that he is just now climbing out of his bunker, and hasn’t had a hand in politics since he sealed the stolen “selection†in 2000…)
Does anyone still doubt that Poppy Bush (or his controllers) are still in power? A good case can be made that these people have been in power since the coup forged by the assassination of John F. Kennedy.
LBJ was known in the Press as “The Brown & Root†(Skull & Bones / Halliburton) candidate. The prime benefactor in Vietnam was KBR.
Carter was quickly absorbed by the Trilateral Commission (AKA the new Council on Foreign relations – founded by David Rockefeller who is still the honorary chairman) The TC was “founded by Zbigniew Brzezinski (CFR member and founding member of the Trilateral Commission, and National Security Advisor to five presidents….) who called for a Pearl Harbor style event to secure the Globalist agenda in his book “The Grand Chessboard†that reared its ugly head again with the Project for a New American Century (PNAC) many years later.
Clinton was allegedly from the Rockefeller bloodline (Winthrop Rockefeller his real daddy). As a Rhodes Scholar Clinton would’ve been conditioned to the same Globalist agenda as the Bush(s) at Yale, where by the way John Kerry and Hillary Clinton attended – for future reference… Bill Clinton rose to power from the state of Arkansas which was, and is completely controlled by the Rockefellers. He was known to be a business partner of Poppy Bush, something that isn’t a secret anymore. Most important of all Clinton completely covered up for the Crimes of Poppy Bush.
http://thebloodreport.blogspot.com/2006/10/heinz-kissinger-still-acting-as-white.html
January 13th, 2008 at 11:56 amI get this strangest feeling, whenever W speaks about Iran, he seems to be describing Israel.
January 13th, 2008 at 11:57 amIsrael has agents within the US Government. Larry Franklin has pled guilty and there are or were others on 9/11.
AIPAC is part of Israeli intelligence and they pass our secrets on to Israel. They are going to trial for precisely this.
Mossad agents were caught celebrating while filming the planes hitting the towers on 9/11 (demonstrating foreknowledge of an event they were happy about). These agents were arrested and failed seven polygraph tests prior to being deported to Israel two months later. This is an irrefutable fact.
An Israeli owned company (Odigo) sent text messages two hours prior to the planes hitting the buildings on 9/11 warning the recipients of the message to stay away from the area.
Daniel Lewin, a Mossad Agent, sat behind Mohammad Atta on his flight on the morning of 9/11. This is an irrefutable fact.
Fully 1/3 of the purported hijackers (which were instantly identified with photography in the aftermath of 9/11) are actually STILL ALIVE.
The owner of WTC Building 7 admits on video tape that he gave the word to DEMOLISH that structure on 9/11, and one hour later, it was brought down by high explosives planted in the building days before 9/11 (demonstrates foreknowledge).
Any two or three of these data points that become ACCEPTED mainstream knowledge can change the course of history if enough people gather the collective will to challenge the government’s credibility.
Big Oil (meaning the United States and its shadow government), in concert with Israel, did 9/11. The “Department Of Offense” did 9/11.
Zionists played a defining role and were in fact, the authors of the Conspiracy. They wrote the game plan (PNAC). Cheney was the Quarterback.
Israel in now employing blackmail against the Shadow Government responsible for 9/11 to force the United States into attacking Iran, then Syria.
The entire Congress know the truth of it.
So does the Mainstream Media.
They are co-conspirators.
January 13th, 2008 at 11:59 amhttp://counterpunch.org/fisk04272006.html
April 27, 2006
Breaking the Last Taboo
The United States of Israel?
By ROBERT FISK
January 13th, 2008 at 12:00 pmPresident Bush has every reason to be skeptical of the current NIE.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 13, 2008 @ 11:57 am
How so? It seems hypocritical to suggest that following the incorrect Iraq NIE was the correct thing to do based on the information it included but believing the ones which don’t support one’s predetermined course of action is ill advised
January 13th, 2008 at 12:03 pm“The CDI’s Ledeen, Amitay and Sobhani were featured speakers at a May 2003 forum on “the future of Iran’ sponsored by AEI, the Hudson Institute and the Foundation for Defense of Democracies. The forum, chaired by the Hudson Institute’s Meyrav Wurmser, the Israeli-born wife of David Wurmser (he serves as Cheney’s leading expert on Iran and Syria), included a presentation by Un Lubrani of Israel’s Ministry of Defense.
Summarizing the sentiment of neoconservative ideologues and strategists, Meyrav Wurmser said: “Our fight against Iraq was only a battle in a long war. It would be ill-conceived to think we can deal with Iraq alone. We must move on, and faster.”
JINSA, a neoconservative organization established in 1976 that fosters closer strategic and military ties between the United States and Israel, also has its sights on Iran. At a JINSA policy forum in April 2003 titled “Time to Focus on Iran-The Mother of Modern Terrorism,” Ledeen declared, “The time for diplomacy is at an end; it is time for a free Iran, free Syria and free Lebanon.”
JINSA, along with CSP, serves as one of the main institutional links to the military-industrial complex for neoconservatives. Ledeen served as JINSA’s first executive director and was JINSA’s “Godfather,” according to Amitay. Amitay is a JINSA vice chair. JINSA board members or advisers also include former CIA director James Woolsey, former Rep. Jack Kemp and the AEI’s Joshua Muravchik. After he joined the administration, Feith resigned from JINSA.’s board of advisers, as did Vice President Dick Cheney and Undersecretary of State for Arms Control John Bolton.”
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Central_Asia_watch/Is_Iran_Next.html
January 13th, 2008 at 12:04 pmJINSA presents an annual Distinguished Service Award, named in honor of the late-Senator Henry M. “Scoop” Jackson to U.S. government leaders.
Last year the recipient was General Peter Pace.
This years recipient is none other the AIPAC Butt Boy and USS Liberty Coverup Specialist, JOHN McCain.
http://www.dissidentvoice.org/July2004/Hughes0712.htm
Tuesday December 5th, JINSA is proud to honor Senator John McCain with the 24th annual “Scoop Jackson Distinguished Service Award…sponsored by Rolls Royce.
DO THE MATH FOLKS!
http://www.jinsa.org/home/home.html
McCain / Lieberman is your future.
DO THE MATH
Possible McCain-Lieberman Alliance
Introducing McCain to a packed ball room of pro-Israel business executives, defense contractors, and Washington insiders, was Sen. Joseph Lieberman, fresh from being re-elected as an independent after losing the Democratic Party primary in Connecticut.
Lieberman’s glowing tribute to his Republican colleague did not go unnoticed. “McCain-Lieberman? There’s something to that,” JINSA board member Morris J. Amitay told the crowd.
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2006/12/6/111221.shtml?s=lh
January 13th, 2008 at 12:06 pmInteresting Events of 2003:
Defence minister Ehud Barak claimed that Iran had restarted its military nuclear programme.
“It’s apparently true that in 2003 Iran stopped pursuing its military nuclear programme for a time. But in our opinion, since then it has apparently continued that programme,” he told army radio.
And…
Lawrence Wilkerson, a top aide to former Secretary of State Colin Powell …. told BBC Newsnight program that “Iran offered the US a package of concessions in 2003, but it was rejected.” This plan, say experts, “corresponds pretty closely to what Washington is demanding from Tehran now.”
Tehran proposed ending support for Lebanese and Palestinian militant groups and helping to stabilise Iraq following the US-led invasion.
Offers, including making its nuclear programme more transparent, were conditional on the US ending hostility.
But Vice-President Dick Cheney’s office rejected the plan, [Wilkerson] said.
January 13th, 2008 at 12:07 pma diarist compares what Bush said to another dictator —
BREAKING…Fresh saber-rattling from Bush on Iran
very interesting!
January 13th, 2008 at 12:07 pmflag plunger….
damn plunger this is a discussion group….not a place for you to publish your book….buy a damned website
January 13th, 2008 at 12:08 pmLedeen’s ideas are repeated daily by such figures as Richard Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and Paul Wolfowitz. His views virtually define the stark departure from American foreign policy philosophy that existed before the tragedy of Sept. 11, 2001. He basically believes that violence in the service of the spread of democracy is America’s manifest destiny. Consequently, he has become the philosophical legitimator of the American occupation of Iraq.
Now Michael Ledeen is calling for regime change beyond Iraq. In an address entitled “Time to Focus on Iran — The Mother of Modern Terrorism,” for the policy forum of the Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs (JINSA) on April 30, he declared, “the time for diplomacy is at an end; it is time for a free Iran, free Syria and free Lebanon.”
With a group of other conservatives, Ledeen recently set up the Center for Democracy in Iran (CDI), an action group focusing on producing regime change in Iran.
Quotes from Ledeen’s works reveal a peculiar set of beliefs about American attitudes toward violence. “Change — above all violent change — is the essence of human history,” he proclaims in his book, “Machiavelli on Modern Leadership: Why Machiavelli’s Iron Rules Are as Timely and Important Today as Five Centuries Ago.” In an influential essay in the National Review Online he asserts, “Creative destruction is our middle name. We do it automatically … it is time once again to export the democratic revolution.”
Iraq, Iran and Syria are the first and foremost nations where this should happen, according to Ledeen. The process by which this should be achieved is a violent one, termed “total war,” a concept pioneered by the 19th century Prussian general, Karl von Clausewitz in his classic book “On War.”
Ledeen’s take on this idea is wedded to ideology. In summarizing his book “The War Against the Terror Masters” on the American Enterprise Institute Web site, he writes: “We wage total war because we fight in the name of an idea, and ideas either triumph or fail … totally.” In his reckoning, force is the only reliable strategy to enforce our ideology on our enemies. In the same summary he claims, drawing inspiration from Machiavelli: “We can lead by the force of high moral example … [but] fear is much more reliable, and lasts longer. Once we show that we are capable of dealing out terrible punishment to our enemies, our power will be far greater.”
http://www.alternet.org/story/15860/
A fellow at the conservative American Enterprise Institute, Ledeen holds a Ph.D. in History and Philosophy from the University of Wisconsin. In 1983, on the recommendation of Richard Perle, Ledeen was hired at the Department of Defense as a consultant on terrorism. While being investigated as a security risk by his supervisor, Noel Koch, it was learned from the CIA station that Ledeen had been carried in Agency files as an agent of influence of a foreign government: Israel.
After having his access to classified materials blocked he ceased working there. He next appeared at the National Security Council as a consultant working with NSC head Robert McFarlane. Ledeen was involved in the transfer of arms to Iran during the Iran-Contra affair — an adventure that he documented in the book “Perilous Statecraft: An Insider’s Account of the Iran-Contra Affair.” A prominent member of the Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs (JINSA) board of governors and the Center for Security Policy (CSP), he advocates “total war” inline with the “Grand Strategy for the Middle East” which advocates “Iraq as the tactical pivot, Saudi Arabia as the strategic pivot and Egypt as the prize.” Ledeen is presently a serving member on the China Commission and, with the support of DOD Undersecretary for Policy Douglas Feith, he has since 2001 been employed as a consultant for the Office of Special Plans OSP). He is involved in the handling of classified materials and has high-level security clearances. He was also involved in election rigging of the 2000 election.
http://www.nogw.com/warforisrael.html
January 13th, 2008 at 12:08 pmYeah, like he’s really shown the world just how smart he is — NOT!
More evidence of what an idiot this man is and how he never should have been President. This country may never recover from this idiot reign of George the Mad One.
January 13th, 2008 at 12:11 pmIt’s pretty hypocritical to suggest that the current NIE about Iran is correct, and Bush is incorrect in discounting it, while at the same time suggesting that Bush was somehow lying when he followed the intelligence provided by the very same agencies in the prelude to the Iraq invasion, intelligence which turned out to be incorrect.
President Bush has every reason to be skeptical of the current NIE.
Knee-jerk, Bush-hating ideologues will never see that hypocrisy, of course.
Comment by O. Bigfoot
It’s pretty hypocritical for you to think that bush or any of the repubs have any idea what the hell is going on anywhere…….there has been no evidence that they do so far…
perfect example…….we can’t leave Iraq because something terrible will happen…..how the hell do you know that…the repubs have been wrong about every damned thing they have said since bush was appointed.
January 13th, 2008 at 12:11 pmHe told the Israelis that he can’t control what the intelligence community says, but that [the NIE’s] conclusions don’t reflect his own views†about Iran’s nuclear-weapons program…
Then why the hell did the Chimp try to bury this report?
Why do we waste time and money doing NIE reports?
Why the f_ck is Bush still in office!?
January 13th, 2008 at 12:13 pmok ok, plunger… i am depressed enough… thanks…
you had me at the 3rd posting…
this comment from C&L, about another subject, is relavent here:
They have no intention of leaving power. There are too many investors in this (yet another) failed business venture of BushCo to risk losing their collective buy-ins. If he can successfully start a more significant war with Iran (see today’s headlines), Cheney never has to leave as the war powers act ensures he and the chimp stay put until the hostilities are over. Indefinitely postponed elections. This action is just one more way of assuring the shareholders in IraqCo LLC.
-Rollo Tomassi
have to say, i agree… and plunger’s info backs it up…
my heart and psyche are so heavy now, i’m not sure how i can find the will to lift my lettering brush… but the truck out in my shop is waiting to be finished… i may need to finish that bottle of chevas, and i can’t drink before painting (unlike some sign painters…)
see yas…
January 13th, 2008 at 12:17 pmPlease, somebody: Arrest this guy and render him extraordinarily to Antarctica! It’s more humane than what Mussolini got–strung up in a gas station.
January 13th, 2008 at 12:17 pmIt’s pretty hypocritical to suggest that the current NIE about Iran is correct, and Bush is incorrect in discounting it, while at the same time suggesting that Bush was somehow lying when he followed the intelligence provided by the very same agencies in the prelude to the Iraq invasion, intelligence which turned out to be incorrect.
Comment by O. Bigfoot
It’s pretty hypocritical to suggest that bush didn’t ignore warnings by the intell people in the run up to war with Iraq also. Get some fresh kool-aid
January 13th, 2008 at 12:27 pmHow insipid is this president? Where would he get any “personal views” about intelligence matters in a distant country? What does he possible know about Iran other than what he wants to believe? We need a president who supports our intelligence services and works with their input. Also, it wouldn’t hurt to reduce the number of these competing services to a precious few that can deliver the truth.
January 13th, 2008 at 12:35 pm67 just like he’s trying to do now with Iran…
January 13th, 2008 at 12:36 pmThis guy is either:
1. Completely, certifiably insane.
2. Actively drinking and doing drugs
3. The most evil sob on earth
4. daring us to kick his ass to the curb.
How in hell can he know more than the intelligence agencies?
Impeach, indict, convict, punishi for war crimes.
January 13th, 2008 at 12:36 pm#23 Bush said Iran funds terrorist extremists, undermines stability in Lebanon, sends arms to the hardline Taliban regime, intimidates its neighbors with alarming rhetoric and defies the United Nations by refusing to be open about its nuclear program.
This sounds suprisingly like Reagan’s Central America policy
Sounds pretty much like Israel’s foreign policy (Druze militias, the Lebanon war, sends US arms tech to China, threats of unilateral action, refusal to declare its massive nuclear weapons program).
Actually, to be fair, Iran doesn’t explicitly espouse a master race ideology like the Likudniks and Likudnik wannabes do.
January 13th, 2008 at 12:37 pmPresident Bush said Sunday that Iran is threatening the security of the world, and that the United States and Arab allies must join together to confront the danger “before it’s too late.â€
We have arab allies in the coalition?? How many troops did they contribute?
January 13th, 2008 at 12:37 pmBush = Israel’s Personal Pimp
January 13th, 2008 at 12:40 pmThis is priceless – el presidente disowns his own administration’s findings. Now if that’s isn’t laughable, nothing is. It’s like disowning oneself! I wouldn’t blame him one iota. The rest of the world has already “disowned him”.
January 13th, 2008 at 12:41 pmBush consults his Director of Desktop Intelligence, the Magic 8 Ball. However, he most likely cheats at this as well by looking at the answer before forming his question.
Possible answers the Director of Desktop Intelligence provides are:
Ask Again Later
Better Not Tell You Now
Concentrate and Ask Again
Don’t Count on It
It Is Certain
Most Likely
My Reply is No
My Sources Say No
No
Outlook Good
Outlook Not So Good
Reply Hazy, Try Again
Signs Point to Yes
Yes
Yes, Definitely
You May Rely On It
http://www.bigredtoybox.com/articles/magic8index.shtml
January 13th, 2008 at 12:42 pmWhat’s the matter obigmouth…..you can’t answer reasonable questions so you try to stir shit any way you can….really thats all you do. God you trolls must be sad, pathetic humans.
We teased you in high school and you just never got over it did you?
Please explain why bush didn’t listen to intel in the run up to iraq that said that everything he said….including in a state of the union speech, including in statments made by powell at the UN were just lies….comon big mouth….we want to know.
January 13th, 2008 at 12:42 pmIn other news, O. Bigfoot is still lying about the difference between the heavily caveated Iraq NIE and the all-caveats-removed unclassified summary. He’s also still in denial about the existence of the OSP pseudo-Intelligence stovepipe operation run out of the Pentagon, answerable only to Cheney and the neocons.
When will the trolls talk about the real Iraq NIE, which cast significant doubt on the claims of WMD and the credibility of sources like Chalabi and Curveball, and contrast it with the disingenuously edited unclassified summary? I’m guessing, never.
January 13th, 2008 at 12:43 pm#74, you mean the little countries like Palau who had to be paid/bribed to support us? Or those like Spain who were fed only the distorted OSP tripe and not the real NIE?
January 13th, 2008 at 12:44 pmJust ask the leaders of the rest of the coalition countries who joined the U.S. in removing Saddam Hussein.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 13, 2008 @ 12:39 pm
All those leaders have been voted out of office by Irate citizens. Bush is next.
January 13th, 2008 at 12:44 pmJust ask the leaders of the rest of the coalition countries who joined the U.S. in removing Saddam Hussein.
Comment by O. Bigfoot
what a fool…..everyone knows that the coalition is a sham…..we are the coalition….the rest may have signed on under duress but we are the only ones actually fighting….even the brits have pulled out…..
man how many of the non – flying flags are you going to run up……what you need another wedgie or some other kind of negative attention?
January 13th, 2008 at 12:46 pmJust ask the leaders of the rest of the coalition countries who joined the U.S. in removing Saddam Hussein.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 13, 2008 @ 12:39 pm
All lied to and fully embarrassed by Bush. All gone now.
January 13th, 2008 at 12:48 pmobigfoot won’t stick around long now…..he runs when he can’t get the upper hand…..coward and traitor…..why do you hate America bigfoot?
January 13th, 2008 at 12:48 pmI’m indebted to plunger.
Of all the things I heard about Bill Clinton, the ‘fact’ that he’s the bastard of Winthrop Rockefeller is a new one.
You learn something new every day.
January 13th, 2008 at 12:51 pmWhat third world nation has Iran invaded, overthrown, and occupied in the past seven years? I didn’t think so. Only Dubya the dunce can take credit for that.
January 13th, 2008 at 12:51 pmWhat third world nation has Iran invaded, overthrown, and occupied in the past seven years? I didn’t think so. Only Dubya the dunce can take credit for that.
Comment by kasinca
Iran has never invaded anyone…….bush is a lier saying that they are the agressors…
January 13th, 2008 at 12:53 pmDubya knows that if he throws it out the chickenshit, chickenhawk, cowards of the PNAC will all repeat what he says and all the 28%ers will begin humping his leg at an increased pace. What a bunch of failed fools.
January 13th, 2008 at 12:56 pmobigfoot wont stick around…
Because, as mentioned above, he is a DoD PSYOP.
You know, these Bush-licking TRAITORS to the USA that THINK they are “patriotsâ€.
Comment by Arn Gunnutes
trolls like obigfoot…
January 13th, 2008 at 12:57 pmsickening to listen to these traitors who want to keep us in the mess that bush and co have gotten us into…..they are true anarchists……they want caos….they are hateful traitors to America.
I support the United States, unlike most of you.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 13, 2008 @ 12:53 pm
You are a textbook example of an authoritarian submissive.
We have minds of our own — and use them.
January 13th, 2008 at 12:58 pmBull. You reiterate whatever you are spoon fed from radical leftist websites, nothing more, nothing less.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 13, 2008 @ 1:00 pm
Pure projection. **yawn**
January 13th, 2008 at 1:01 pmI support the United States, unlike most of you.
Comment by O. Bigfoot
you’re a traitor to the American people. Just spouting puke does not give you the upper hand on anything……you can say it but that don’t make it so….
why do you hate America obigfoot….please respond. You never answer that question…..Why would you want to keep America on the path to destruction? Why do you hate America?
January 13th, 2008 at 1:01 pmWe have minds of our own — and use them.
Comment by Zooey — January 13, 2008 @ 12:58 pmâ€
Well some of us do. In fairness to O. Bigfoot there are a few pretentous wannabe intellectuals a foot
January 13th, 2008 at 1:02 pmShame on you, Bart, for insinuating that monkeys could fill the shoes of trained U.S. forces.
Why do you hate the U.S. military, Bart?
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 13, 2008 @ 12:58 pm
When will you leg humping, knuckle dragging, morons figure out that disagreeing with an illegal, immoral war, based on the lies of the thugs of a crime family does not constitute hating the military? The military does not choose the wars, the thugs choose the wars…the thugs that are too cowardly to fight themselves. Let us not forget that Dubya is a drunken, AWOL, coward and his sidekick is a five deferment coward. I would surmise most of the 28% are heroes who have never worn the uniform.
January 13th, 2008 at 1:03 pmI’ll ALWAYS have the upper hand against the likes of you. Don’t worry about that, I certainly don’t.
I support the United States, unlike most of you.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 13, 2008 @ 12:53 pm
You’ve never had the upper hand against anyone except your stepchildren. Bush would never allow you th power you think you have. And your support for the United States has led to its military and economy being weakened, its Constitution and treaties being ignored, and its image in the world being remade into that of state-sponsored terrorism. That’s your new USA, bigfoot, and we’re taking it back. If you want to keep going in this direction, you’d better be prepared to man up, instead of taking the coward’s way out as you have all of your useless life.
January 13th, 2008 at 1:03 pmBull. You reiterate whatever you are spoon fed from radical leftist websites, nothing more, nothing less.
Comment by O. Bigfoot
Wanting to save our country from the true radicals does not require a playbook like the one you use…..sent to you by the rnc…the radical right who wants to destroy America…and is doing a pretty good job.
Why do you hate America bigfoot?
January 13th, 2008 at 1:04 pmBull. You reiterate whatever you are spoon fed from radical leftist websites, nothing more, nothing less.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 13, 2008 @ 1:00 pm
and radical leftist websites are the ones spoonfeeding the truth, unlike the jibbering simians of the right, lying through their teeth on a daily basis, and easily keepimng the stupid, like bigfoot, afraid and ignorant. shame on bigfoot for being such a gullible coward.
January 13th, 2008 at 1:05 pmWhy do you equate our U.S. military servicemen and servicewomen to monkeys, Bart?
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 13, 2008 @ 1:03 pm
I agree, bigfoot, that’s an unfair comparison. Monkeys aren’t state terrorists, and rarely bomb wedding parties and restaurants.
January 13th, 2008 at 1:06 pmSo Bush said he “can’t control what the intelligence community says, but that [the NIE’s] conclusions don’t reflect his own views†about Iran’s nuclear-weapons program.
Gee, swell. So just where do these “views” come from, if not from an intelligence community? Is George omnipresent now? Or maybe his amazing insight came in a dream. You know, the same one in which the citizenry bows down, rubs his feet with soothing oils, and accepts him not only as the best prezident eveh, but as their personal messiah.
Ah, sweet dreams.
January 13th, 2008 at 1:06 pmEver since the 2007 NIE on Iran when Israel was thwarted from dragging us into our next war for Israel – the Israelis have been sending delegations and heavily pressuring BushCheney to go ahead and attack Iran for Israel anyway – reality be damned. Bush got a earful from the Neocons and these warmongernig right wing Israelis while in Israel.
The only flaw in the Palestinian Israeli peace process is not yet having destroyed the neocons, the Israel Lobby, and any Israeli that stands in the way of full implementation of UN Security Council Resolution 242, 194, 338, the Geneva Conventions, and International Law
Let’s have a REAL foreign policy debate delineating just how we’re going to kick Israel back behind 1967 as demanded by Security Council Resolution 242, 194, 338, the Geneva Conventions, and International Law and ending this ‘War of Terror for Israel’ Israel has been having us wage
I’m waiting for our first presidential candidate to start pressurizing the Israelis and keep turning up the pressure more and more and finally to call for sanctions against Israel until she conforms with the UN Sec Co Resolutions demanding she return to pre-’67.
January 13th, 2008 at 1:06 pmWhy do you equate our U.S. military servicemen and servicewomen to monkeys, Bart?
Comment by O. Bigfoot
he didn’t….you implied that what the so called coalition members sent were real soldiers…..actually I think they all had non-combat missions…..except the brits….you know like the polish truck drivers.
obigfoot has ever been in the service….real men have ways of dealing with wimpy little pricks like him…..
January 13th, 2008 at 1:07 pmStop Madman Bush
Stop the GOP plan to pull a fast one just before the conventions this summer with a “treaty” to withdraw US troops, but the remaining 60,000+ would be permanent. Call Congress and remind them that all treaties must pass with 2/3 majority.
Democrats: Keep the eye on the prize and stop the bickering. Iraq is Bush’s War. Hold him accountable.
Election mantra for 2008 — Like Bush’s War? Vote McCain.
January 13th, 2008 at 1:08 pmTaking the country back for whom, LP? Hillary? Obama?
BWAAAAHAAAHAAAHAAAHAAA.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 13, 2008 @ 1:07 pm
of course, either of whom is braver, smarter and more patriotic than the imbeciles you’ve allowed to weaken the USA. Funny how the Clinton years were so much more peaceful and productive than the war-torn, recessive Bush years. How many young Americans will be enough to satisfy your blood-lust and hatred for the military, bigfoot? Enjoy the next 40 years in the minority, and be very grateful if you are still a free man.
January 13th, 2008 at 1:10 pmImpeachment is a requirement of the constitution.
January 13th, 2008 at 1:10 pmWell the country is now swinging hard to the left so obigfoot and his ilk will have to learn to keep their hate filled remarks to themselves. America has had enough of the radical right….they have gotten to see just what that means and America doesn’t like it…..its over for them for a long time
gotta go so keep obigfoot and his ilk from lying…..just refute everything they say…..it’s all lies that they can’t prove….lies and innuendo which is the only way they can win an argument..
January 13th, 2008 at 1:12 pmTaking the country back for whom, LP? Hillary? Obama?
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 13, 2008 @ 1:07 pm
NOPE. Try Lockheed Martin, Boeing, Raytheon,General Dynamics,TRW, United Technologies,General Electric, SAIC,…..
January 13th, 2008 at 1:13 pmwhich is the only way they can win an argument..
Comment by Fred — January 13, 2008 @ 1:12 pm
they never win an argument. they spout lies and run away. if there’s any commonality among our wing nut trolls, it’s cowardice.
January 13th, 2008 at 1:14 pmTaking the country back for whom, LP? Hillary? Obama?
BWAAAAHAAAHAAAHAAAHAAA.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 13, 2008 @ 1:07 pm
of course, either of whom is braver, smarter and more patriotic than the imbeciles you’ve allowed to weaken the USA. Funny how the Clinton years were so much more peaceful and productive than the war-torn, recessive Bush years. How many young Americans will be enough to satisfy your blood-lust and hatred for the military, bigfoot? Enjoy the next 40 years in the minority, and be very grateful if you are still a free man.
Comment by Lefty Patriot
Well said Lefty……I just read this on my way out…..
January 13th, 2008 at 1:15 pmHave you read the “Turner Diariesâ€, plunger?
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 13, 2008 @ 12:36 pm
Have you read the US Constitution, or the the definition of TREASON?
January 13th, 2008 at 1:15 pmYou can profit form a falling market, too.
Comment by Frank M — January 13, 2008 @ 1:13 pm
You’d better move, frank. a conflict with Iran is another loss for Bush. He couldn’t win in Afghanistan or Iraq, and we will get our asses kicked in Iran. Again. poor, ignorant leadership based on sociopathy and ego will destroy this country much faster than a foreign enemy. Bush has proven it.
January 13th, 2008 at 1:16 pmWell some of us do. In fairness to O. Bigfoot there are a few pretentous wannabe intellectuals a foot
Comment by dbadass — January 13, 2008 @ 1:02 pm
Of course there are. I wouldn’t deny that. However, O BigAss mistakes his mindless devotion to Bush boot-licking and flag humping for patriotism — and then has the nerve to insinuate that I am led around by the nose by the “radical left websites.” Weak.
January 13th, 2008 at 1:16 pmIf only more of you would come clean with your true feelings the way LP has, it would assure another Republican victory this November.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 13, 2008 @ 1:16 pm
your fear of the truth puts you squarely with the treasonous “good Germans” that also back the losers in WW2. propoganda and lies are your weapons, the weapons of losers. My true feelings about the troops are to keep them alive and with their families, not use them as tools for terrorism. You aren’t happy until they’re all dead. Who’s the real patriot? Not you.
January 13th, 2008 at 1:18 pmComment by Zooey — January 13, 2008 @ 1:16 pm
I think you will find what I mean elsewhere
January 13th, 2008 at 1:18 pmthanks to all the bozos who borrowed more than they could afford to
Frank would make a good Soudi…….his method is to chage the victom with the crime…not the real criminal….
January 13th, 2008 at 1:19 pmIt certainly doesn’t take me long to smoke out the folks who despise their own country and it’s military men and women.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 13, 2008 @ 1:16 pm
Of course it doesn’t you’re one of the most outspoken in your hatred of our troops. And your patriotism has been proven to be non-existent, as you support traitors.
January 13th, 2008 at 1:20 pmOtherwise, there is no way you could state that the Clinton era was militarily “peacefulâ€.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 13, 2008 @ 1:19 pm
Perfect example of how few facts you have on your side, bigfoot. How many US troops did Clinton kill?
January 13th, 2008 at 1:21 pmConflicts and power
From an outstanding interview with Professor Ilan Pappe of Haifa University (my emphasis):
“I think that neo-conservatism is mainly a product of the Cold War, and I think as happened in Israel, so in the US, a lot of people benefit economically, sociologically, politically, from a situation of conflict which begins with the producers of arms, and it ends with the people who have a hold on the decision-making apparatus in the name of national security. And of course this was all lost in a way when the Soviet Union collapsed, and the cold war ended. And I think this group of people were looking for a new bogey man, a new threat to the national security of the US and they found it because of the very strong influence, I think, of Israel among other things, in the Arab world and the Islamic world. Of course, movements such as the Islamic Al-Qaeda did not help. They provided the pretext, and the context for even pushing these ideas even further. And what we have now is the same people, a next generation, who would do all they can to perpetuate the conflict, because they benefit from the conflict. They benefit from situations of wars, of conflicts, and so on, and I think this is what enforces their hold over the American policy making in the world at large, and in the Middle East in particular.â€
We often wonder why people like Ledeen seem to be so interested in creating conflict for the sake of conflict. One reason is that people who are aware of the timing of a conflict are in a position to make money off it. Another reason is that this constant conflict constitutes the sole reason why these people have any power. They create an escalating series of problems, and then have to remain in power to ‘solve’ them. Of course, the solutions continue to lead to more conflicts. We can understand all the the talk about Iran as another example of creating a conflict which gives these characters something to do. While a civil war in Iraq benefits Likudniks in the American government and in Israel, it also benefits a guy like Cheney, whose only interest is in creating more power for Cheney. The United States has fallen into a vicious cycle where the jobs of the neocons and their fellow travelers like Cheney and Rumsfeld are dependent on their cleaning up the messes they have already started. An end to conflict would put them out of power, so we’ll never see an end to conflict.
http://xymphora.blogspot.com/
January 13th, 2008 at 1:21 pmbigfoot, get off the crack pipe. Clinton’s terms were far more peaceful than Bush’s; only a crackhead would dispute that. Or is it meth in your neighborhood?
January 13th, 2008 at 1:22 pmOtherwise, there is no way you could state that the Clinton era was militarily “peacefulâ€.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 13, 2008 @ 1:19 pm
I wasn’t aware that Clinton invaded and occupied two countries, threatened military action against a third, and that military spending had skyrocketed during his two terms, sending deficit soaring to all-time highs…
January 13th, 2008 at 1:22 pmDamn it, plunger!
Get your own bloody blog.
It’s free, here: https://www.blogger.com/start
January 13th, 2008 at 1:23 pmplunger,
Here is another free blog tool: http://wordpress.com/
January 13th, 2008 at 1:25 pmThose interested in this issue would be well advised to visit the following site and take an honest look at the current Iran, that focus of George Bush’s NEXT murderous rampage:
http://www.photoactivistsforpeace.org/#
And please, consider passing this site onto everyone you can. If more people see the real and current Iran, perhaps they will contribute to the groundswell of informed public who oppose attacking that country.
siri@legitgov.org
January 13th, 2008 at 1:26 pmhttp://www.legitgov.org
You know we outlawed the baath party in iraq when we occupied it…..when the dem are back in power we could outlaw the repub party….I like it.
January 13th, 2008 at 1:27 pmBush doesn’t believe in Intelligence.
January 13th, 2008 at 1:27 pmhttp://plungerspeaks.blogspot.com
January 13th, 2008 at 1:29 pmIf you think exchanging insults with the likes of CIA disinfo agent, O. Bigfoot, serves the search for the truth better than abundant facts with source atribution – I simply disagree.
January 13th, 2008 at 1:31 pmfrank, if you could get banned here you would be gone….I have flagged you so many times.
January 13th, 2008 at 1:31 pmFrank:
Identify anything I’ve posted that you can prove is not accurate. Please provide links to the sources that prove your contentions.
Shooting the messenger is called “swiftboating” -a Rovian tactic.
Got facts?
January 13th, 2008 at 1:32 pmIf you think exchanging insults with the likes of CIA disinfo agent, O. Bigfoot, serves the search for the truth better than abundant facts with source atribution – I simply disagree.
Comment by plunger
that’s ok plunger. To some degree you are correct but this is still a discussion forum…..post just the links so it doesn’t destroy the discussion for the rest of us and we will read the links and then discuss it with you, ok?
January 13th, 2008 at 1:34 pmplunger, the discussion here does serve to show the visitors to the site the truth.
January 13th, 2008 at 1:38 pmWhen they see the trolls bs debunked, which it always is….it’s too easy. When they see how unpatriotic and unAmerican the trolls are….When they see how many people stand opposed to the lies and bs that the trolls spew….
Fred.
My posting does not prevent the posting of others.
Near the beginning of this thread, someone finally had the epiphany that Israel controls the US Government, and asked “when did that happen?”
My postings served to answer that question – in technicolor.
The truth will not be revealed via sound bite or insult-exchange – or by responding to the disinfo operatives who frequent this site and others in an effort to shout down, discredit or ban the truthtellers.
Our country is at stake.
January 13th, 2008 at 1:38 pmStop with the nasty words.
If you REALLY want to do something to stop these maniacs in the “white” house you would have found a way to start being disobedient to your masters. Instead you hold fast to that “got to have” mentality.
I find the American public to be a lazy disinterested bunch. They claim they want to stop this takeover but then they sit at home and whine and don’t get off their butts to make a statement.
You are all fools. It’s been taking place for years and the revolution in the streets should have happened years ago. Instead every one of you is waiting for someone else to do it.
There is only one way to stop Bush from attacking Iran because he and cheney damn well mean to do it. In the streets millions of people must tCke a stand. Millions……..not hundreds……..millions. Not once but consistently until they give up. We will have embarrassed them enough in the eyes of the world to stop them. Unless and until that happens you have nothing. The Real ID Act will be implemented and you will be home watching football.
You all had chances to stop this……..plenty of chances……no one is willing to risk their pimped lifestyle. Bush and Dick know this. It’s why they keep winning.
Fools the bunch of you.
January 13th, 2008 at 1:41 pmFred:
I respectfully disagree. When people drop into the midst of a “he said she said” style of food fight where one troll dominates the entire exchange and everyone else is responding to the troll, intelligent thruthseekers tend to be turned off and depart for more enlightening and informative information sources.
The trolls have their tactics, and I have mine, to overcome theirs.
Got any facts to refute anything I’ve posted, or is style more important than evidence of a Foreign-Sponsored Coup?
January 13th, 2008 at 1:41 pmplunger, you risk alienating the people you want to connect with…..that’s all I’m saying….keep them short.
January 13th, 2008 at 1:42 pmHow humble our addled leader is when he tells citizens that he defers to military and intelligence knowledge when he stood behind Gen. Petraeus on the “surge”. He generously admitted he had no expertise on these matters. Of course, he didn’t want to take the rap if things went so bad that he could not hedge his way out of it. Better Petraeus should take the rap if things went sideways.
Now he rejects the NIE (produced by those same folks he previously set to front for him) when they don’t agree with his (and probably Cheney’s) desire to start a war with Iran. More lies, hubris, omnipotence, ignorance, awkward diplomacy, or just the usual cherry picking of data? Probably all of them.
Bah!
January 13th, 2008 at 1:46 pmAre you also too young to have really experienced the Clinton Presidency?
Comment by O. Bigfoot
I remember it fondly obigmouth…..I would go back to it…..wait…we are going back to it….I can’t wait…..any dem will be better than this.
Any democrat will do more for American citizens by accident than any republican will do for them on purpose.
Why do you hate America bigfoot?
January 13th, 2008 at 1:47 pmBush Disowns U.S. Intel, Tells Israelis Iran NIE ‘Doesn’t Reflect My Own Views’
Because believing is far better than knowing, isn’t idiot?
January 13th, 2008 at 1:47 pmI think Bush is afraid because of the Gulf Pact, Ahmadinejad is promoting among Arab countries.
January 13th, 2008 at 1:47 pmHaiti
Serbia
Sudan
Afghanistan
Iraq
Comment by O. Bigfoot
You forgot Somalia, BTW…
January 13th, 2008 at 1:49 pmComment by O. Bigfoot — January 13, 2008 @ 1:43 pm
It seems to me you are the one who is too young to remember the Clinton administration.
None of the countries you list was occupied by his administration. As a matter of fact, Clinton was criticised for having the military don “police work”.
No wonder you are a Bush personality cult follower: No awareness of history whatsoever.
Oh, and “Clinton did it too” is not an excuse.
January 13th, 2008 at 1:50 pmHaiti
Serbia
Sudan
Afghanistan
Iraq
Are you also too young to have really experienced the Clinton Presidency?
All of which were mere skirmishes with very little loss of American life, most of which were Republican screwups from the beginning. bigfoot, always fact-free.
January 13th, 2008 at 1:52 pmComment by Juan C. — January 13, 2008 @ 1:49 pm
That was not a military occupation, Juan. That was a UN mission.
January 13th, 2008 at 1:52 pmPlunger,
Our country is at stake. True.
And at this point all the truthtelling in the world has not shut down the war machine.
Would someone, anyone give me one good reason why millions of people are not rioting in the streets?
I’ll tell you why……..because lazy Americans want to live their pimped lifestyle and continue to think that talking their way through it will change the results.
The bunch of you are fools. You really do not want to understand the gravity of the situation in which we find ourselves.
Does Bush keep repeating to you “it’s past time for talking to Iran”? Is that what you hear him say?? Have you gotten it yet??
Well, maybe it’s past time to be talking to him. Maybe, just maybe if millions of people got up off their duffs and took a stand things mght be different .
But they won’t and he knows it.
January 13th, 2008 at 1:52 pmMinor correction: when I said the Clinton’s administration was criticised for having the military do “police work” I was referring specifically to Haiti.
January 13th, 2008 at 1:54 pmThat was not a military occupation, Juan. That was a UN mission.
Comment by Gregor Samsa
There were American armed soldiers without Blue Helmets on the top of their heads.
January 13th, 2008 at 1:55 pmOh, and “Clinton did it too†is not an excuse.
Comment by Gregor Samsa
I think that’s the whole point.
Bigfoot’s logic is like saying:
Well, there are a lot of rapists out there besides me.
January 13th, 2008 at 1:59 pmThat was not a military occupation, Juan. That was a UN mission.
Comment by Gregor Samsa
There were American armed soldiers without Blue Helmets on the top of their heads.
Comment by Juan C
You trolls can’t compare these operations to what is happening now. Don’t be petty little children now.
January 13th, 2008 at 1:59 pmComment by Juan C. — January 13, 2008 @ 1:55 pm
And that still was no military occupation by the US on Somalia. That country was not invaded by the US.
Contending otherwise is simply disingenuous, whether or not you agree with Clinton’s policy in Africa.
January 13th, 2008 at 2:00 pmSTFU, Fred.
January 13th, 2008 at 2:00 pmContending otherwise is simply disingenuous, whether or not you agree with Clinton’s policy in Africa.
Comment by Gregor Samsa
I won’t discuss the matter, further. Everybody gets touchy about Clinton.
January 13th, 2008 at 2:03 pmWhen the Berlin Wall Fell, the Republican Conservatives celebrated “their” victory, until they realized that the wall fell on their Golden Goose. The opposite of PEACE DIVIDEND is WAR DEFICIT.
January 13th, 2008 at 2:03 pm#
#
My posting does not prevent the posting of others.
Comment by plunger — January 13, 2008 @ 1:38 pm
No it just buries it.
Comment by BARTLEBEE — January 13, 2008 @ 1:55 pm
Buries it?
Somehow I’m the only one with a shovel then, because I’ve managed to read every posting on this thread without any problem – though at least half of them are nothing more than insult-laden personal attacks, which is in fact a violation of the site rules.
January 13th, 2008 at 2:04 pmSTFU, Fred.
What the heck jan?
you can’t compare those operations during President Clintons admin. to the occupation of soverign nations…..Clinton did not do that….stop being a child.
January 13th, 2008 at 2:04 pmComment by BARTLEBEE — January 13, 2008 @ 1:58 pm
I agree. That’s why I didn’t even go down the list Footie provided. It’s so lame it’s not even funny.
January 13th, 2008 at 2:05 pmArgue your political correctness all you want fools…….
They know that’s all you’ll do……….you’ve been doing the same thing for years.
January 13th, 2008 at 2:06 pmEverybody gets touchy about Clinton.
Comment by Juan C. — January 13, 2008 @ 2:03 pm
No, I don’t. I am no Clinton fan.
I simply think that comparing the peace-keeping mission in Haiti with the military occupation of Iraq is so off the mark as to be obscene.
As I said, we may not agree with American foreign policy that relies so heavily on the military, but equating the two missions I mention above is disingenuous.
January 13th, 2008 at 2:07 pmAfter reading comments 53, 55, and 56 I felt moved to write this post. I have NOT posted recently because of the cyber bullying that these three in particular like to practice. Unless they are spewing their own rhetoric punctuated with name-calling and other mature retorts, they just don’t get it. I read ThinkProgress for the NEWS – not because it gives idiots like you a forum- and I appreciate it when people like plunger post and back up the facts with jumps to the original source. If it wasn’t for posters like plunger, many of the sinister actions of the Bush crime family would have been buried. You three need to reread the first amendment. If the tv is showing something you don’t want to see, change the channel or press mute. If you don’t want to read a particular article/posting, don’t read it!
Don’t ever think, though, you speak for everyone. Talk about taking over a blog…you guys take it over shortly after these postings. I got to skip over a lot!
January 13th, 2008 at 2:08 pmyou can’t compare those operations during President Clintons admin. to the occupation of soverign nations…..Clinton did not do that….stop being a child.
Comment by Fred
What you, Gregor and Bart fail to realize is that those actions were UNNECESSARY. I don’t know how an aspirin factory deserves a bomb.
January 13th, 2008 at 2:08 pmI don’t know how an aspirin factory deserves a bomb.
Comment by Juan C. — January 13, 2008 @ 2:08 pm
We were talking about military occupations.
Focus, Juan, focus.
January 13th, 2008 at 2:09 pm203 Comment by And the beat goes on
get over it. This is not a news site. It is a blog. When you get the right wing trolls under control…like yourself obviously….let me know and we will see what we can do.
January 13th, 2008 at 2:11 pmWe were talking about military occupations.
Focus, Juan, focus.
Comment by Gregor Samsa
I’m talking about civilian lives. Yes, Clinton didn’t invade any country as Bush has done. Ok. Clinton is not the topic, fine. But is a huge step to say the world loved you with Clinton. Madeleine Albright should be hanging from a tall tree along with other war criminals.
January 13th, 2008 at 2:13 pmWhat you, Gregor and Bart fail to realize is that those actions were UNNECESSARY. I don’t know how an aspirin factory deserves a bomb.
Comment by Juan C
sorry jan…..they don’t compare, even if you conclude that they were wrong. Bill did not occupy……occupy two……two soverign nations for 5 or 6 years…..
January 13th, 2008 at 2:15 pmWhat’s red herring?
January 13th, 2008 at 2:16 pmYes, Clinton didn’t invade any country as Bush has done.
Comment by Juan C. — January 13, 2008 @ 2:13 pm
Thank you, that was my original rebuttal to Footie.
See, Footie? Even foreigners are more aware than you about what countries the US has actually invaded…
January 13th, 2008 at 2:17 pmNow, back to Bush and the NIE:
It’s pretty hypocritical to suggest that the current NIE about Iran is correct, and Bush is incorrect in discounting it,
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 13, 2008 @ 11:57 am
What is
hypocriticalparanoid and insane is to support Pres Bush when he claims the NIE backs his premise for invading Iraq, and support him again when the NIE stands in his way of a military action against Iran.But we already knew Bush followers are anything but sane….
January 13th, 2008 at 2:22 pmWhat’s red herring?
A Red Herring is an aromatic fish that is dragged across the Fox’s trail, to send the Hounds in the wrong direction.
January 13th, 2008 at 2:24 pmWhat’s red herring?
Comment by Juan C
what? Your’re not even an American troll?
January 13th, 2008 at 2:26 pmI think Bush is appeasing the Jewish right wing. Israel’s being pushing the confrontation with Iran because it is the most dangerous country in military terms and because the Shiites support hostile (for Israel) countries like Syria and Lebanon.
January 13th, 2008 at 2:27 pmIf it walks like a troll….
January 13th, 2008 at 2:28 pmYour’re not even an American troll?
Comment by Fred
Of course, I am.
Its what you end up eating every time the troll gets you to defend one relatively minor even in Clintons Presidency in a thread about Bush.
Comment by BARTLEBEE
That’s because I don’t like being a hypocrite.
January 13th, 2008 at 2:29 pmThat’s because I don’t like being a hypocrite.
Comment by Juan C.
well that leaves you being a bush war criminal defender
January 13th, 2008 at 2:31 pmAMERICANS ARE BEING BETRAYED BY OUR LEADERS AND THEIR COWARDLY ENABLERS FROM BOTH POLITICAL PARTIES
American political leaders must LOUDLY and REPEATEDLY DENOUNCE George W. Bush’s and Richard B. Cheney’s actions and orders as UNCONSTITUTIONAL, UNLAWFUL and TREASONOUS rather than VALIDATE them with POLITICAL POSTURING, TIMIDITY and SILENT ACQUIESCENCE!
IMPEACHMENT is the only means we have of stopping the cataclysmic consequences of the unrelenting IGNORANCE, ARROGANCE, INCOMPETENCE, DISHONESTIES, INSECURITIES, HOSTILE TEMPERAMENTS, VINDICTIVENESS and PRONOUNCED MORAL AND ETHICAL DEFECTS of George W. Bush and Richard B. Cheney. They are intellectually and emotionally mean-spirited extremists who are jointly destroying America’s honor and integrity throughout the world. And politically and morally complicit Republicans and Democrats are standing by enabling or watching as Bush and Cheney are dismantling, perverting and ignoring our Constitution and rules of law creating an all powerful and self-ruling/policing ONE branch oppressive/fascist American government. No individuals in our history are more deserving of public CONDEMNATION and legitimate PROSECUTION than George W. Bush and Richard B. Cheney. God cannot save us from such men. That is something WE MUST DO FOR OURSELVES!
January 13th, 2008 at 2:32 pmwell that leaves you being a bush war criminal defender
Comment by Fred
Yeah, that must be it, Von Neumann.
January 13th, 2008 at 2:32 pmwhat? Your’re not even an American troll?
Comment by Fred — January 13, 2008 @ 2:26 pm
Juan is NOT a troll.
He’s a good guy.
Comment by BARTLEBEE
All he has shown me is his ass since I have been here. He defends the behaviior of the trolls…..this is of course my opinion and I could be wrong. I would have to see some evidence of it.
January 13th, 2008 at 2:33 pmBrent Scowcroft had it right – Bush is hypnotized by the Israelis and the Neocons. Can you believe this bastard believing the warmongering Israelis and Israeli intelligence who along with our own Neocons engineered the Niger forgeries that they used to drag us into Iraq?
The heroic NIE on Iran that scuttled BushCheney’s plans to ignite an exponentially worse catastrophe to ‘further secure the Israeli Realm’ and our traitor Bush believes the damn Israelis over American intel
Unbelievable – BushCheney should be strung up for treason
January 13th, 2008 at 2:34 pmBartlebee,
Wrong.
All your political arguing has done nothing to reverse the tide. It gets worse EVERY day.
An informed person such as yourself knows that. Otherwise you wouldn’t be on these blogs daily defending your endless arguments.
The snore is that you continue to believe it makes a difference.
The 4th estate has CHOSEN the top candidates for the presidency. You didn’t, they did. The corporate powers told their anchors who to talk about.
Obama wants to increase the military by 100K. Hillary refuses to talk to leaders of other countries. Those two examples are just a tiny selection of the kind of decision making you’ll see.
And for you to be on this blog constantly saying that this country is being ruined but in the next sentence claiming that we are a democracy shows the internal conflict.
Where have you been living that you actually believe this is still a democracy.
This original story was about Bush making up his mind that those aren’t “HIS views” about Iran regardless of the millions we spend on intelligence…….Bush and Dick have every intention of invading Iran before he leaves office. Why is it that you find it so hard to understand that the people have lost all control of their govt? There is no recouping it with Hillary or Obama. Even Edwards is a stretch.
The only viable candidates have left the race because of the corporate powers. The haves and the have mores.
As much as what this country USED to pretend at being a democracy there is no more pretense. Torture, rendition, surveillance, REAL ID, the disparity between rich and poor, outsourcing, etc.
Their plans are well underway.
The majority of Americans are just hoping that things will turn around with a change in officeholders.
Foolish Americans.
When the majority are ready to change things they will wear orange and appear in their streets and be screaming “we’re mad as hell, and we’re not going to take it anymore.” They will stand up and stop talking and take action outside of the voting booth.
Until then all you’re doing is whistling in the wind.
January 13th, 2008 at 2:35 pmWAR CRIMINALS. NOTHING ELSE TO SAT ABOUT BUSH/CHENNEY AND THEIR ADMINISTRATION, AND ABOUT THE ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER… WAR CRIMINALS!
January 13th, 2008 at 2:39 pmThis is from a article of John Pilger:
“Unlike Israel and the United States, Iran has abided by the rules of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, of which it was an original signatory and has allowed routine inspections under its legal obligations – until gratuitous, punitive measures were added in 2003, at the behest of Washington. No report by the International Atomic Energy Agency has ever cited Iran for diverting its civilian nuclear program to military use. The IAEA has said that for most of the past three years its inspectors have been able to “go anywhere and see anything.” They inspected the nuclear installations at Isfahan and Natanz on 10 and 12 January and will return on 2 to 6 February. The head of the IAEA, Mohamed El-Baradei says that an attack on Iran will have “catastrophic consequences” and only encourage the regime to become a nuclear power.
Unlike its two nemeses, the US and Israel, Iran has attacked no other countries. It last went to war in 1980 when invaded by Saddam Hussein, who was backed and equipped by the US, which supplied chemical and biological weapons produced at a factory in Maryland. Unlike Israel, the world’s fifth military power with thermonuclear weapons aimed at Middle-East targets, an unmatched record of defying UN resolutions and the enforcer of the world’s longest illegal occupation, Iran has a history of obeying international law and occupies no territory other than its own.”
January 13th, 2008 at 2:42 pm228 damn, that’s depressing.
January 13th, 2008 at 2:44 pmJuan has been an ardant progressive supporter and beacon of light since I have been here, and I’ve been here for over 3 years.
Comment by BARTLEBEE
Wow, have I? :)
January 13th, 2008 at 2:45 pmYou’re way, way off base on this one Fred.
You’re not even in the ballpark.
Comment by BARTLEBEE
If so then I humbly apologize to Juan. I am truly sorry if I misjudged you. I just felt that you judged me in the first thread I posted in here by saying I had been insulting to someone when you obviously had not read the entire thread…….
January 13th, 2008 at 2:48 pmnote what percentage of this thread is devoted to personal attacks and insult.
all in violation of blog etiquette and site rules.
and not a single one of you can offer any factual basis to refute anything I’ve posted?
so, perhaps the posting of insults and personal attacks is the REAL SPAM?
January 13th, 2008 at 2:54 pmIts about Bush ignoring an NIE.
Comment by BARTLEBEE — January 13, 2008 @ 2:55 pm
REALLY? WHEN DID YOU LAST POST ON THAT TOPIC?
January 13th, 2008 at 2:57 pmtwo things need to happen if America is to recover from Bush’s damaging Fascist neo-con agenda.
1. Stop Bush from starting WWIII (which he is desperately trying to promote)
2. Elect a Democratic President to stop the cycle of colossal abuse by the extreme Fascist GOP.
The Bushies have damn near destroyed the Freedoms and Laws of the Constitution of America and are trying real hard to destroy the World.
January 13th, 2008 at 2:59 pmAn interesting addendum to this thread.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1151ap_bush_mideast.html?source=mypi
So despite the clear and obvious Saudi connections, Bush still pushes the Iran connection. Funny, I thought Iraq was the biggest state sponsor of terrorism.
January 13th, 2008 at 3:03 pmand not a single one of you can offer any factual basis to refute anything I’ve posted?
Comment by plunger — January 13, 2008 @ 2:54 pm
What in the world makes you think we even care to rebut anything you’ve posted? Specially when this thread is about Pres Bush ignoring the NIE in his race towards military action against Iran?
Speaking of which, all the warmongering about Iran gives me deja vu. It’s all a rehash of the run-up to the invasion of Iraq.
Fool me once…
January 13th, 2008 at 3:11 pmI’ll have to read what else the esteemed Seymour Hersh has to say, but if the Israelis think we’re naive they have another thing coming.
January 13th, 2008 at 3:12 pmBush is not naive, he is crafty. He would dearly love to shape the intelligence to support his policies as the “Decider”. But there are too many people who have been burned by those policies to remain silent, even if they are in the intelligence community.
Comment by BARTLEBEE — January 13, 2008 @ 3:12 pm
I know, I read the news this morning.
It’s the same arguments all over again. Replace “Iran” with “Iraq” and it’s the same speeches from 4-5 years ago.
Why anyone would defend his rhetoric towards Iran, when he was proven wrong about Iraq -disastrously wrong, I might say- is beyond me.
It takes a special kind of stupid to do so, right trolls?
January 13th, 2008 at 3:15 pmOh, that’s right. I forgot.
Iraq did have WMD. They were simply moved to Syria in the nick of time by the Russians.
Maybe the same thing will happen in Iran…
/sarcasm off
January 13th, 2008 at 3:17 pmYou trolls can’t compare these operations to what is happening now. Don’t be petty little children now.
Comment by Fred — January 13, 2008 @ 1:59 pm
For f_ck’s sake, Juan is NOT a troll.
January 13th, 2008 at 3:26 pmWell, of course something is up, Scrivener. What will the provocation be? Look at the market – price of gold climbing steadily because people expect a shake-out of currencies. Bears growling. Even oil is dicey – because what if supplies are “temporarily” cut off by war?
And of course when Bush proclaims he is moving forward with a two-state solution in Israel — smarmy with (false) compassion to both sides — you have to wonder if he didn’t get some concession from the Israelis because he is going to be their chore-boy vis-a-vis Iran. Why else would they “agree” to something?
Whenever the agenda is “To Serve Man” I kind of wonder what’s cooking
January 13th, 2008 at 3:28 pmHere are some interesting pictures of Iran — “the terrorist sponsor.”
January 13th, 2008 at 3:29 pmMy favorite sentence in Bush’s speech at Abu Dhabi is:
“[Iran] seeks to intimidate its neighbors with ballistic missiles and bellicose rhetoric.”
No Nukes? Iran Still a Menace, Bush Says
Oh, the irony….
January 13th, 2008 at 3:29 pmComment by Zooey — January 13, 2008 @ 3:29 pm
Zooey, no fair!
Those pictures show Iranians in their daily lives! Why, they even ski and snowboard! They look like, you know, actual people (gasp!!).
You are hindering the war effort. Why do you hate America?
/sarcasm off
January 13th, 2008 at 3:33 pmHe’s already apologized Zooey. That wrongs been righted.
Comment by BARTLEBEE — January 13, 2008 @ 3:30 pm
Thanks, Bart. I just now read that post. Sorry, Fred.
January 13th, 2008 at 3:33 pmNot to mention Persian women are good looking…
(sorry, am a straight guy)
January 13th, 2008 at 3:34 pmLet’s face it. The real reason for bush-the-idiot’s trip to the Middle East is to convince the Arab world to stand by while the US does Israel’s bidding and bombs Iran.
It is about time we Progressives, I prefer LIBERALS, abandon all support for Israel and demand it being dissolved. When will enough American money, lives and global reputation be squandered for a lousy 8 million people whose “chosen” status is based upon fiction?
January 13th, 2008 at 3:35 pmComment by Gregor Samsa — January 13, 2008 @ 3:33 pm
Kind of like us, huh? :-)
BTW, I found that link on a comment on TP, but for the life of me, I can’t find it again.
January 13th, 2008 at 3:36 pmComment by Zooey — January 13, 2008 @ 3:36 pm
Aacck!!
I just found out Iranians play golf! And Rugby, too boot! Don’t tell me them there evil Muslims are people!?
Oh, the humanity!!!
/sarcasm off
January 13th, 2008 at 3:40 pmCabeza de Vaca – I have a better idea. We should never tie our own hands if we can be magnanimous with some other state and its people. We should not fall off the other side of the horse. But here is my proposal:
January 13th, 2008 at 3:42 pmA Constitutional amendment banning the holding of dual citizenship for anyone claiming American citizenship. That means NOBODY can be a hyphenated, dual loyalty American. You must drop the German, Canadian, Israeli, Irish — all dual citizenships. “No man can serve two masters.”
Iran does not need a nuke to deliver a nuclear strike against Israel.If they hit Dimona with a conventional missile it would have the same effect.
January 13th, 2008 at 3:44 pmWhen is sanity going to prevail .Bush needs to stop all this wartalk and get all players in the region to get rid of their nukes because what they are playing with is utter madness.
WAR ON DEMOCRACY, a film by John Pilger. YOUTUBE!
January 13th, 2008 at 3:49 pmFred, it’s ok. No apologies, please. I feel like someone important. I’m not.
Bart, for the life of me, I can’t believe you actually help to solve a conflict instead of making it bigger. ;)
Nahhh, you are a nice people whether you want to show sometimes or not.
January 13th, 2008 at 3:52 pmI don’t think anyone in the middle east is crazy enough to use a nuke. A single weapon, would unleash a hell, that would not only destroy the holiest places for 3 major religions, but would destroy the majority of middle eastern culture, and create an economic crisis, that would make the great depression look like nothing.
January 13th, 2008 at 3:55 pmI’m thinking the “before it’s too late” aspect has more to do with Bush’s running out of time as President. Got to “git er dunn” before he retires to Paraguay.
January 13th, 2008 at 3:56 pmIt’s interesting to see bushbaby to “spread freedom” around the world. it’s also a little scary.
January 13th, 2008 at 4:20 pmHey Nancy impeach before he kills us all.
Dropping in to see how this thread has gone.
Bartlebee, j
in answer to your reply…….
Your statement:Well in case you hadn’t noticed, Americans do protest. Only under republican rule they don’t get to do it as much, mostly thanks to homeland defense powers given to civil authority, which scares off a lot of good Americans from protesting.
My answer:The only thing that scares people off from taking action is their own laziness to get involved. They’re too busy with their own small lives to look at the big picture. Problem is the big picture is killing them. A small protest here and there isn’t going to do squat. MILLIONS in the streets wearing orange on a weekly basis in the largest city close to them…….MILLIONS.
Your statement: And also in case you hadn’t noticed, we have a system that does work.
My answer: You know as well as I do that is no longer true. It hasn’t worlked for quite awhile. No need to pretend. It’s one of the reasons why we are experiencing the fall of the empire. The plutocrats own the govt not the people. The system broke a long time ago and gets worse by the day.
Your statement: Sometimes democracy is not as fast as you little third world countries would like, but thats how we keep the US from becoming a Bananna Republic, like you undoubtably reside in.
My answer: I live in the USA. I’m just honest about where we are. You might try getting yourself a bright orange vest and see what you might be able to do next week beyond the keyboard. Without a mass movement all you’ll see is a constant march towards the New World Order. Try being honest with yourself and I think you’ll agree. This has nothing to do with my opinion but everything to do with whether or not Americans are willing to become good little Germans. My bet is that detentions are not too far in the future. In the meantime I’m busily selling everything we own and getting the heck out.
Without people en masse you are a lone voice at a keyboard.
January 13th, 2008 at 5:12 pmmusings,
I’ll go along with that but I also want all tax deductions for donations to Israel to stop immediately. That includes Federal and State. Yes even here in Illinois the state gives a break to Israeli donations.
And let’s stop giving all this aid to Israel. Thirty billion a year equates to $100/capita in the US for (assume 10 million Israeli’s and I’m being generous) yields $3,000/capita. Nothing short of outrageous!
No wonder John Stewart wondered if Bush had a kosher ass. Why wonder!
January 13th, 2008 at 6:14 pmNew York Times book review on Neoconservatism today noted that Neos, as a group, don’t want to be bothered with empirical evidence; they act only on ideology, which includes a world dominated by the United States. What a perfect fit for our faith-based Presidente!
January 13th, 2008 at 6:14 pm261. Yes, they are!
January 13th, 2008 at 6:15 pmAfter the recent National Intelligence Estimate on Iran was released, Israel publicly challenged the U.S. intelligence consensus that Iran had stopped its nuclear weapons program. “In our opinion,†Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak said, Iran “has apparently continued that program.â€
Yeah, irony is dead when Dubya stands next to Ohmert, and preaches about the dangers of Middle-East states who might secretly be developing nu-kyu-luh weapons…. Makes one suspect there’s even more intelligence that Dubya’s not “up to speed” on.
Cheers,
January 13th, 2008 at 6:38 pmIt’s the only time wingnuts like Bush show any critical thought, when something comes up that contradicts their delusional worldview…
January 13th, 2008 at 6:45 pmWell, I’m going to have to agree with President Bush. It’s really difficult to have the same view as ANYTHING in the rest of the world when you have your head jammed that far up your a$$!
January 13th, 2008 at 7:24 pmOh, this article is just to rich not to comment. Let’s start with some choice quotes shall we? First: “Iran is threatening the security of the world”-translation-after just coming from Israel this is surely Israel rhetoric.How is Iran “threatening” the US? Second:”Iran funds terrorist extremists, undermines stability in Lebanon, sends arms to the hardline Taliban regime, intimidates its neighbors with alarming rhetoric and defies the United Nations by refusing to be open about its nuclear program.”-translation-Iran is the ONLY country that does these things? Surely not the US and ISRAEL? right? Third:”Iran is the world’s leading state sponsor of terror”.-oh this one is rich. Didn’t we here this about Iraq? As if you can pinpoint “terror”. No mention of Bin Laden in there. Again rhetoric from Israel. In fact the entire article and entire speech smack of proxy rhetoric and dogma about and for Israel. I hope those listening to it were thinking “when do we eat” and “god, I have to go the bathroom” and “this speech is making me sick and I think I am going to vomit right here”. What a total load of bullshit. How can anyone, anywhere believe this a**hole whose time has definetly come.
January 13th, 2008 at 8:21 pmOf course Israel didn’t like the NIE, they thought they had it in the bag and were blindsided. Too bad ! The US should cut all aid to Israel as quickly as possible. The US should stop letting Israel define Middle East foreign policy for the US. The US should stop fighting proxy wars for Israel. Until Israel stops their warmonger, aggressive, belligerent, apartheid treatment of the Palestinians and their neighbors, and recognition of a Palestinian state there should be sanctions against them, inspections by the IAEA, full disclosure on settlement activity, all aid cut off, and recognition that Israel is the rogue state that it is.
Why would anyone give a rat’s ass what an unintelligible moron who cannot even form back-to-back coherent sentences has to say about anything , much less that he knows more about Iran and its intentions than our own intelligence community does ………………?
What’s next ?
Music critic with articles posted in Rolling Stone magazine ?
January 13th, 2008 at 8:49 pmLike I said, all I see you doing is sitting in a blog, talking.
Comment by BARTLEBEE
But I think he has a point, Bart. I think self-criticism is a huge part of being progressive. We may not like being called lazy asses, but that doesn’t change the fact that any important display of dissent, will open the ruling class eyes. Nobody stops millions of people marching on the streets…nobody.
January 13th, 2008 at 9:35 pmJuan C.
You get it.
And being called lazy asses is hardly far from the truth. How many large protests have we seen from the masses since this war started?
Bart,
I come on this blog, infrequently. On Saturdays I am normally out standing against traffic trying to get these lazy asses off their phones and out of their cars. How lucky do you think I’ve been?
Any time I am in line with people at the market or post office or gas station I am talking to them about the election or gas prices or climate change or the war. How much do you think people care??
I attend every special event hosted by the local party trying to get the populous fired up. How energetic do you think they are??
I AM doing the street thing………all by myself.
A long time ago many of us stood in the streets and proved we could change things. Today is much different.
This is an extememly dangerous situation in this country getting worse by the day and no one wants to stand up and out and take a risk.
WHY?
January 13th, 2008 at 10:23 pmBush has his ‘own views’ on National Intelligence? Sorry, but I’m not even confident that the thief-in-chief can out-smart myself (a Belgian) on ‘life at the ranch’. I think I’ll pass on whatever ‘intelligence’ this cook has for us.
January 14th, 2008 at 5:49 amThis must be another one of those things that “Commander Guy” feels in his guts. I just feel nausea…
January 14th, 2008 at 10:57 amBartlebee,
I’m not looking to win a popularity contest.
I’m trying to get others to realize the stakes.
We just sold our house.
Now instead of continuing to try to get others to realize the stakes we are going to leave the mainland.
I will watch from far away as the inaction of the people allows further disintegration of the planet.
I will walk away knowing I did everything I possibly could to wake people from their slumber. I will live out my last years watching as the planet tries to have corrupt criminals substitute for that which they should do themselves.
Very simply, the enemy is us.
January 14th, 2008 at 1:44 pmDoes President Bush know that Israel invaded its neighbors and still occupies the invaded land and has built illegal settlements on that land?
Does he know that Israel is in violation of International Law, United Nations Resolutions, and treats the Palestine people inhumanly?
Does he know that Israel has unregulated non-conventional weapons yet the United States is giving over 3 billion dollars in aid to Israel again this year?
The Palestine people are the ones suffering from the Israeli invasion, why is the United States providing aid to Israel instead of the Palestine people?
Is President Bush continuing the work of his Grandfather Prescott Bush?
January 15th, 2008 at 2:12 am