DNI McConnell suggests waterboarding is torture.
By on Jan 13th, 2008 at 12:59 am
DNI McConnell suggests waterboarding is torture.
In an interview with the New Yorker, Director of National Intelligence Mike McConnell said that waterboarding “would be torture” if used against him, but still declined to say whether the technique should be legally classified as torture:
“If I had water draining into my nose, oh God, I just can’t imagine how painful! Whether it’s torture by anybody else’s definition, for me it would be torture,” McConnell told the magazine. [...]
McConnell said the legal test for torture should be “pretty simple”: “Is it excruciatingly painful to the point of forcing someone to say something because of the pain?”
McConnell warned that if waterboarding is “ever is determined to be torture, there will be a huge penalty to be paid for anyone engaging in it.”
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That freakin’ lefty. he’s just inviting the Mohammedan Menace to swim over and invade us.
January 13th, 2008 at 1:01 amF***in’ traitor. We need this quasi-torture to obtain quasi-true information from quasi-terrorists.
January 13th, 2008 at 1:13 amSoooo, it would be torture if used on him, but he goes all wishy-washy as to whether or not it’s torture if applied to someone else?
Someone get this man a moral compass! And a brain….geez.
January 13th, 2008 at 1:17 amIf the United States does waterboarding, then it’s not torture. If anyone else does waterboarding then it is torture.
See how simple that is!
** roll eyeballs **
January 13th, 2008 at 1:18 amHow will we ever get the answers we wanted to hear all along unless we torture people?
January 13th, 2008 at 1:22 amLet Chief Justice Roberts get the Waterboarding treatment. He should be able to tell us whether it is torture or not.
January 13th, 2008 at 1:24 amAren’t treaties laws ?
Have we not signed an international treaty stating that torture (including water boarding) IS illegal.
∞
January 13th, 2008 at 2:46 amMcConnell warned that if waterboarding is “ever is determined to be torture, there will be a huge penalty to be paid for anyone engaging in it.â€
a) The defining character of torture according to international law is severe pain or suffering. Waterboarding causes severe suffering. Ergo, waterboarding is torture.
b) In America there was never the slightest doubt about this until America was discovered doing it.
c) No one who has been waterboarded has any hesitation at all deciding that it qualifies as torture.
d) Someone needs to rent this guy a clue.
McConnell also warned that “if the Spanish Inquisition ever is determined to have been kinda impolite, there will be a huge penalty to be paid for anyone who participated.”
January 13th, 2008 at 3:09 amI’m not sure if this guy is telling the truth, he says two things. Only one way to get it out of him… “Torture” him with a reading of The Constitution!
Listening to this guy should be noted as torture while we’re at it.
January 13th, 2008 at 4:11 amMitch the BIrich is really freaking out. I say’Let hi go’.
January 13th, 2008 at 4:21 amWait a minute.
This is the guy who waterboaded mob members, when he was mayor of NY
January 13th, 2008 at 4:25 amDoes anyone have a link to the New Yorker Article? I have searched their site and cannot find the referenced piece by Wright.
For those who haven’t read the above article, McConnell at the end confirms Cheneys desire to invade Pakistan to get OBL, something the Pakistanis are firmly against.
January 13th, 2008 at 5:26 am
Wrong for anybody else to pull this crap except for monkey shit for brains boy king dictator – football cheer leader – AWOL – ms. boo$h.
The United States has a historical record of regarding waterboarding as a crime, and has prosecuted individuals for the use of the practice in the past. In 1947, the United States prosecuted a Japanese military officer, Yukio Asano, for carrying out a form of waterboarding on a U.S. civilian during World War II. Yukio Asano received a sentence of 15 years of hard labor.[31] The charges of Violation of the Laws and Customs of War against Asano also included “beating using hands, fists, club; kicking; burning using cigarettes; strapping on a stretcher head downward.”[74]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding
January 13th, 2008 at 6:50 amhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding
Comment by araratararat — January 13, 2008 @ 6:50 am
When you use an encyclopedia to seek the definition of waterboarding, it is defined as torture.
When you look up torture, it lists waterboarding as one of the techniques.
This surreal attempt by this administration to redefine reality as we know it was telegraphed by Karl Rove in a discussion with reporter Ron Suskind:
I had a meeting with a senior adviser to Bush. He expressed the White House’s displeasure, and then he told me something that at the time I didn’t fully comprehend — but which I now believe gets to the very heart of the Bush presidency.
The aide said that guys like me were ”in what we call the reality-based community,” which he defined as people who ”believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality.” I nodded and murmured something about enlightenment principles and empiricism. He cut me off. ”That’s not the way the world really works anymore,” he continued. ”We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you’re studying that reality — judiciously, as you will — we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.”
CLEARLY, Rove studied Goebbels:
“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, THE TRUTH IS THE GREATEST ENEMY OF THE STATE.”
– Joseph Goebbels, German Minister of Propaganda, 1933-1945
By: okiemon on September 27, 2006 at 10:24am
“As people do better, they start voting like Republicans – unless they have too much education and vote Democratic, which proves there can be too much of a good thing.”
Karl Rove.
“See in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda.”
GEORGE w. BUSH
Here’s a great comparison of Goebbels to Bush:
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/may2005/260505newbushism.htm
FORCE THE MEDIA TO DEFINE WATERBOARDING AS TORTURE.
STOP LETTING THE MEDIA GET AWAY WITH OBFUSCATION ON THIS TOPIC.
January 13th, 2008 at 6:59 amTHE TRUTH IS THE GREATEST ENEMY OF THE STATE.â€
– Joseph Goebbels, German Minister of Propaganda, 1933-1945
“See in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda.”
GEORGE w. BUSH
K A R L
R O V E
T H E
T E R R O R I S T
Despite his prior illegal actions, Karl Rove still retained his security clearance, and knew for WEEKS prior to London’s latest fake terror alert what was coming. The odds that Rove himself advised London precisely what time to make this announcement are approximately 100%.
This gave Rove the time necessary to plan a full frontal assault on the minds of the American People.
Bill O’Reilly revealed Classified information in his recent live interview with Mossad Agent Michael Chertoff. While Chertoff wouldn’t confirm or deny it, O’Reilly revealed that the FISA PROCESS was utilized to obtain warrants prior to placing wiretaps on some suspects in the US. While none of the suspects in the US was deemed to have been involved, this example was clear proof that the FISA Court WORKS – to the chagrin of Gonzales.
http://progressivedailybeacon.com/more.php?page=opinion&id=1235
Neo-Con Madmen Strike Again – The London Fear Frenzy
Well before Wednesday the administration was aware of Britain’s plans to launch a raid against a possible terror plot.
With the knowledge of a terror-scare coming soon, all day Wednesday the entire Neo-Conservative Republican political apparatus had been busy assailing their political enemy’s supposed unwillingness to fight terrorism. On Thursday the Neo-Con assault intensified and finally peaked when news of the British scheme was made public. Then, in the most vile and unbecoming manner possible, Republicans accused Democrats of having forgotten the attacks of 9/11. Some Republicans were even gleeful enough to remind reporters that with the anniversary of 9/11 fast approaching their attack on Democrats, coupled with the London conspiracy would do wonders for their lagging poll numbers:
“Weeks before September 11th, this is going to play big,” one White House official said.
P L A Y
B I G ? ? ?
T E R R O R
I S
A
G A M E ? ? ?
For Karl Rove, terror is THE GAME.
The timing of the release of this information was not coincidental. Let’s take a look at how many other circumstances coincided with this fake terror scare…
Lieberman was not the Democratic Party candidate – he was quite literally the Israeli candidate.
AIPAC lost to Lamont, cracking the door open for an anti-AIPAC rebellion at the polls.
Less than 36 hours later…
“TERROR IN THE SKIES” was the headline on all news programming in the United States – and CNN would have you believe that the entire world changed that day (again).
The world didn’t change – but CNN’s fear-mongering role in it on behalf of Israel has been clearly exposed.
All of the President’s NeoCons have made it known since Lieberman’s loss to Lamont, just how important Lieberman has been to their agenda – the Zionist Agenda.
They knew that Lieberman would lose, and Rove planned a full frontal attack for the aftermath – which by necessity always leads with a terror scare. Rove even called Lieberman directly to offer his help.
As part of the game – a CNN talking head asks the question…
“Lamont is the Al Qaeda Candidate???”
KARL ROVE WROTE THAT TALKING POINT.
CNN READ IT ON AIR.
“When did you stop beating your wife?â€
Equally loaded questions.
CNN’s behavior is not coincidental.
They’re owned by Timer Warner, a company run and owned predominantly by Jews. That’s not a racist remark – it is a fact. Just ask Ted Turner his opinion about CNN’s propaganda slant toward Israel.
T H E
N E W
I R A E L I
E S P I O N A G E
S C A N D A L
At approximately 11:48 a.m. August 9th, CNN reported that Ariel Weinmann – a US Sailor – had been arrested for espionage committed on behalf of Russia. CNN intentionally lied. They know precisely that Weinmann had spied for Israel, as does the Jewish Media:
Report: US sailor spied for Israel
David Keyes, THE JERUSALEM POST
Aug. 9, 2006
CNN created a false anonymous source, and claimed that an American Jew was spying for Russia.
THE CNN LIE:
From Barbara Starr
CNN Washington Bureau
Wednesday, August 9, 2006; Posted: 1:57 p.m. EDT (17:57 GMT)
WASHINGTON (CNN) — A sailor facing espionage and desertion charges has been held at a Norfolk, Virginia, brig since March, the U.S. Navy said Wednesday.
Ariel Weinmann, 21, is suspected of having worked on behalf of Russia, said military sources close to the case.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/08/09/sailor.charge/index.html
C N N ‘ S
B A R B A R A
S T A R
I S
A
C I A
D I S I N F O M A T I O N
A S S E T
Barbara Starr was CNN’s correspondent at the Pentagon. The Pentagon is being run in concert with Israel. During the lead up to the Iraqi invasion – Karen Kwiatkowski confirmed that Israeli Generals were free to come and go at will – and NEVER recorded their visits.
Israeli Mole Larry Franklin worked in the Pentagon – inside Rumsfeld’s Office Of Special Plans.
Franklin was arrested for spying in concert with AIPAC – for Israel.
Israel calls the editorial shots at CNN.
This Weinmann spy case is HUGE! As big as the Jonathan Pollard case.
Notice it is NOT IN THE HEADLINES?
Yet another story pertaining to Israeli spying was released into the ether during the fake terror hype.
T H E
A I P A C
S P Y
S C A N D A L
The Israeli Connection
http://www.uruknet.info/?p=m25108&l=i&size=1&hd=0
On the morning of February 12th, 2003, a small group of FBI eavesdroppers were listening intently for evidence of a treacherous crime. At the very moment that American forces were massing for an invasion of Iraq, there were indications that a rogue group of senior Pentagon officials were already conspiring to push the United States into another war—this time with Iran.
A few miles away, FBI agents watched as Larry Franklin, an Iran expert and career employee of the Defense Intelligence Agency, drove up to the Ritz-Carlton hotel across the Potomac from Washington.
T H I S
H E A D L I N E
W A S
B U R I E D
A M I D
T H E
F A K E
T E R R O R
S C A R E
Judge denies motion to toss pro-Israel spy case
Friday, August 11, 2006; Posted: 10:06 a.m. EDT
The indictment against Steven Rosen of Silver Spring, Maryland, and Keith Weissman of Bethesda, Maryland, alleges that they conspired to obtain classified reports on issues relevant to American policy, including the al-Qaida terror network; the bombing of the Khobar Towers dormitory in Saudi Arabia, which killed 19 U.S. Air Force personnel; and U.S. policy in Iran.
Rosen and Weissman, former lobbyists for the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, are accused of sharing the information with reporters and foreign diplomats. No trial date has been set.
K H O B A R
T O W E R S ? ? ?
Why was Israel so keen to have Classified information relative to the Khobar Towers incident? Did they want to see if the US Intelligence officials had figured out that Mossad did it?
S O…
Are you a Coincidence Theorist?
Pakistan’s Intelligence Service purportedly uncovers a massive terror cell – and the news just happens to hit right on the heels of the biggest AIPAC loss in a decade.
It couldn’t very well have been “revealed” by Mossad” – as that would have been too obvious – so they credit Pakistan’s ISI for uncovering the purported plot.
Sure…you bet.
9/11
Within 10 minutes of the second twin tower being hit in the World Trade Center… CNN said Osama bin Laden had done it. That was a planned piece of disinformation by the real perpetrators. It created an instant mindset and put public opinion into a trance, which prevented even intelligent people from thinking for themselves.
This was clearly an inside job.
Karl Rove had advance knowledge of EVERY TERROR ALERT since Bush took office in 2000.
Because he creates them.
“T H E
A R C H I T E C Tâ€
O F
T E R R O R
I S
K A R L
R O V E
January 13th, 2008 at 7:05 amMcConnell’s comments remind me of the famous definition of comedy:
If I slip on a banana peel and fall on my butt, it’s tragedy.
If someone else slips on a banana peel and falls on his butt, it’s comedy.
January 13th, 2008 at 7:17 am9/11 was a political strike. What is Israel’s interest in such a monstrous plot?
Throughout the summer of 2001, we heard about America’s shrinking surplus and that the Pentagon would not have sufficient funds to modernize for the 21st century. And now, all of a sudden, the Pentagon can get what it wants without any Democratic Party opposition. How very convenient!
Even your cherished civil liberties can now be abridged with impunity to protect the expansion of the hegemony of transnational capitalism. There is now a new excuse to crush anti-globalization protests. Bush 43 follows Bush 41. Iraq was baited into the Kuwaiti trap when the U.S. told Saddam it was not interested in his inter-Arab squabbles. Two days later, he moved into Kuwait, which was an Iraqi province anyway before the British Empire decreed otherwise.
Roosevelt baited the Pearl Harbor trap for the Japanese empire, which provided the pretext for entering World War II. And now the Israelis have given the U.S. the pretext for further expansion into an area that will be critical in the next 25 years – the Caspian basin.
http://www.chretiens-et-juifs.org/article.php?voir%5B%5D=633&voir%5
Israel power is derived from its control of the US Government – which has been enabled for the most part by AIPAC AND THE VARIOUS “THINK TANKS” OWNED AND CONTROLLED BY DAVID ROCKEFELLER.
A major political loss for AIPAC by Lieberman to Lamont had led to a terror scare and a further reduction of civil liberties.
AIPAC’s operatives (every Republican and news anchor) are working overtime to equate the loss of Israel’s AIPAC incumbent with a sign that America is weak and thereby inviting attack.
Have you ever seen anything like this in your life? I mean really.
Republican candidates shilling for Joe Lieberman? On whose orders?
The funding for the coup was stolen by DOD Comptroller Dov Zakheim in advance of 9/11. He stole $7 trillion and sent it to Israel.
Why do you think Cheney has no fear of Congress cutting off funding for the Crusade?
Arrest David Rockefeller – they all work for him.
It’s time to raise the level of discourse where the term “Conspiracy†is concerned:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/library/reports/2005/franklin_indictment_04aug2005.htm
We’ve all been conditioned to snicker and ridicule when non-professionals offer theories about conspiracies. It’s time to talk about all of these theories and unravel the whole thing.
The Abramoff, AIPAC and Libby Trials are ALL THE SAME CONSPIRACY:
http://plungerspeaks.blogspot.com/
Cheney sent Ledeen to meet with Ambassador Mel Sembler in Italy to plant the forged Niger document.
COINCIDENTALLY…
Mel sembler heads up Scooter Libby’s Legal defense fund
AND
Despite the fact he’s a lifelong Republican, Sembler held a fundraiser for Lieberman in Palm Beach – in coordination with Rove and the WH.
Connect ALL the dots…
Lieberman is now assigned the task of protecting Chertoff.
How does McCain factor in?
A New Jersey-based investment banker deeply involved in fund-raising efforts for the 2004 Republican convention, Lewis Eisenberg, is signing on with Mr. McCain. Mr. Eisenberg is a former Goldman Sachs partner who served as chairman of the Port Authority board at the time of the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.
WHAT A COINCIDENCE!
It was Eisenberg who passed the $15 billion Asbestos Liability represented by the Twin Towers onto Larry Silverstein, the man who confessed publicly to having Building 7 “PULLED†by explosives – despite the fact that no plane struck it:
Pull the entire thread and don’t stop pulling.
The Asbestos liability belonged to Halliburton, having acquired it along with his acquisition of Dresser.
GW included the issue in his State of the Union speech in 2005:
“To make our economy stronger and more competitive, America must reward, not punish, the efforts and dreams of entrepreneurs. Small business is the path of advancement, especially for women and minorities, so we must free small businesses from needless regulation and protect honest job-creators from junk lawsuits. (Applause.) Justice is distorted, and our economy is held back by irresponsible class-actions and frivolous asbestos claims — and I urge Congress to pass legal reforms this year.â€
FULL CIRCLE.
President McCain and Vice President Lieberman is you future unless you work to expose the entire truth of the political theater being played from above.
There is no “two party system.”
There is no vote counting.
There is no “Democracy.”
Black is white.
Torture is not torture…until it’s done to you.
January 13th, 2008 at 7:20 amJohn McCain used to be the voice of opposition against torture…not any more.
The cancer growing out of the side of McCain’s face is his conscience trying to escape his body.
McCain once stood for removing money from politics. The Rockefeller elite and Israel have put him in his place – through threats and blackmail. He is a broken man who does not believe the words he speaks. He is a shill, and he knows it. Divide & Conquer – that’s ALL politics is about – just a game played by the elite to keep us baffled and divided.
The concerted effort that you see now in the media reveals the end of the slippery slope. Not a day after the most recent elections, the media were already hyping the next ones – 24/7. The effort by so many states to move up their Primaries means that the American People will be buried in political banter on a year-round basis. Politics. Not News. Politics – 24/7 – forever.
Rockefeller’s wet dream is coming true. He controls the media, he controls Congress, he controls the banks and he controls the oil.
Is there not a single patriot in Congress who will step forward and reveal the truth of the blackmail, bribes and intimidation in order to save our Republic?
Aaron Russo – The most important interview of our time:
http://tinyurl.com/29gyyb
You MUST watch this and share it with EVERYONE.
A shorter version is here:
http://tinyurl.com/392w7j
The Council On Foreign Relations DID 9/11
The Rockefellers DID 9/11.
The “War On Terror†does not exist.
“Bin Laden†does not exist.
If you don’t STOP – and take the time to watch this, you cannot ridicule those who risk their own personal security to tell the truth.
If you do watch it, and love America, you’ll never again ridicule a TRUTHTELLER.
STOP what you are doing.
WATCH THIS INTERVIEW.
Then share it with EVERYONE.
Google Video Search: Historic Interview With Aaron Russo
Here’s the Video that Google Video PULLED DOWN!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3U_GISl3aAA
January 13th, 2008 at 7:23 amThen why hasn’t he ordered it ended?
January 13th, 2008 at 7:26 amWaterboarding has “always” been assault under the classic definition of it in any state criminal code. You take someone, against their will (Democracy in action?), force them down, tie them up, gaggle them with water or dunk them. It all comes out the same. The victim (pardon my use of the term) has been assaulted and in “American” jurisprudence, the victim can file a complaint against those who assaulted him. Any idea as to how many assault cases might be out there? Aren’t we supposed to be the good guys? What happened? I’m embarrassed that Americans even talk about this and worse talk about it like it’s a normal thing to do. C’mon countrymen we are smart enough to fight the terrorists without waterboarding and such. In the end we make more of them if we do what they do.
January 13th, 2008 at 7:47 amC’mon countrymen we are smart enough to fight the terrorists without waterboarding and such. In the end we make more of them if we do what they do.
Comment by williamf — January 13, 2008 @ 7:47 am
William…do you still not get it? “We” ARE the terrorists!
The purported terrorists are agents of the United States and Israel. They are being imprisioned to keep them from revealing the truth of the relationship.
“Every pretext for war is created by those with the capacity to profit from it.”
Plunger
http://www.rense.com/general31/cyc.htm
The CIA’s “Operation
Cyclone” – Stirring The Hornet’s
Nest Of Islamic Unrest
FriendsOfLiberty.com
10-27-2
Zbigniew Brzezinski not long ago revealed that on July 3, 1979, unknown to the American public and Congress, President Jimmy Carter secretly authorized $500 million to create an international terrorist movement that would spread Islamic fundamentalism in Central Asia and “de-stabilise” the Soviet Union…
The CIA called this Operation Cyclone and in the following years poured $4 billion into setting up Islamic training schools in Pakistan (Taliban means “student”).
Young zealots were sent to the CIA’s spy training camp in Virginia, where future members of al-Qaeda were taught “sabotage skills” – terrorism.
Others were recruited at an Islamic school in Brooklyn, New York, within sight of the fated Twin Towers.
In Pakistan, they were directed by British MI6 officers and trained by the SAS.
The result, quipped Brzezinski, was “a few stirred up Muslims” – meaning the Taliban.
The Wall Street Journal declared: “The Taliban are the players most capable of achieving peace. Moreover, they were crucial to secure the country as a prime trans-shipment route for the export of Central Asia’s vast oil, gas and other natural resources.”
No American newspaper dares suggest that the prisoners in Camp X-Ray are the product of this policy, nor that it was one of the factors that led to the attacks of September 11.
Nor do they ask: who were the real winners of September 11?
The day the Wall Street stock market opened after the destruction of the Twin Towers, the few companies showing increased value were the giant military contractors Alliant Tech Systems, Northrop Grumman, Raytheon (a contributor to New Labor) and Lockheed Martin.
As the US military’s biggest supplier, Lockheed Martin’s share value rose by a staggering 30 per cent.
Within six weeks of September 11, the company (with its main plant in Texas, George Bush’s home state) had secured the biggest military order in history: a $200 billion contract to develop a new fighter aircraft. The greatest taboo of all, which Orwell would surely recognize, is the record of the United States as a terrorist state and haven for terrorists.
This truth is virtually unknown by the American public and makes a mockery of Bush’s (and Blair’s) statements about “tracking down terrorists wherever they are.”
They don’t have to look far.
THERE IS NO OSAMA BIN LADEN.
AL QAEDA IS MERELY AN IDEA.
THERE IS NO “WAR ON TERROR”
THERE IS MERELY TERROR, CAUSED DIRECTLY BY THOSE WHO GAIN THE MOST FROM IT.
AFGHANISTAN’S OPIUM PRODUCTION IS AT ALL TIME HIGHS SINCE 9/11 AND OUR RESULTING INVASION.
GEORGE HW BUSH’S CIA/DEA DRUG IMPORTATION OPERATIONS ARE AS PROFITABLE AS EVER.
THE US IS LEADING THE “WAR OF TERROR.”
GOOGLE: “FALSE FLAG”
January 13th, 2008 at 8:08 amhttp://proliberty.com/observer/20000906.htm
From the September 2000 Idaho Observer:
RAND analyst admits Defense Secretary fits profile of domestic terrorist?
“Astute observation†begs question: “Who are the real terrorists?â€
The Department of Defense’s definition of terrorism is:
“The calculated use of violence or the threat of violence to inculcate fear; intended to coerce or try to intimidate governments or societies in the pursuit of goals that are generally political, religious or ideological.â€
“All acts of terrorism are politically motivated,â€
“Why would Cohen, who has access to all chemical/biological weapons intelligence data, including that disseminated by RAND, scare the public with the imminence of a chemical/biological threat? Is he not mirroring the intent of ‘terrorists’ to leave a specific impression on a gullible public,†asked Don Harkins of The Idaho Observer.
Chalk gave a thoughtful and lengthy answer to Harkins’ question. Chalk explained that Cohen’s public announcement was undoubtedly prompted by lobbyists who used the Clinton cabinet member as political leverage to fund their anti-terrorism programs and research.
“Earlier today Dr. Hoffman stated that ‘all terrorist acts are politically motivated.’ What you just described to me is that Cohen’s threat of imminent chemical or biological attack was politically motivated. How, then, is Defense Secretary Cohen’s behavior different from what you guys have described as that of a domestic terrorist?†Harkins asked.
With a smile that seemed to say, “touchet,†Chalk said, “Your observation is very astute.â€
January 13th, 2008 at 8:10 amListening to Stephen Hadley attempt to define the law defined by Common Article 3, it now becomes crystal clear why Rumsfeld disbanded Iraq’s Standing UNIFORMED Military at the time of our invasion.
They are attempting to redefine the Geneva Conventions to apply only to those captured “on the battlefield IN UNIFORM.”
Since the “battlefield” is undefined, it is literally EVERYWHERE, and since the enemy is conveniently undefined, it pertains to EVERYONE…including you and me.
The US and Israel are on a mission to overthrow the middle east – and in so doing, create a CIVILIAN UPRISING of non-uniformed “insurgent” fighters, whom this administration finds it convenient to brand as “Al Qaeda”
There is no “Al Qaeda Organization.”
“Al Qaeda In Iraq” is a Rovian Brand Strategy – just like “911″
People who find themselves occupied by a foreign invading force tend to fight back.
In other wars, our own government has branded them as “Freedom Fighters” when it serves the US Agenda.
The administration is attempting to create its own reality, based strictly on whether or not those who oppose our invading troops are wearing a uniform.
Sound anything like the Israeli occupation of Palestine, complete with check points and road blocks?
Who taught the US Troops torture techniques that would work specifically well on Arab detainees?
Coincidence?
Can US citizens traveling abroad on holiday become the victims of rendition? If Bush declares you an enemy, what are the limits? Can he declare that you are “Al Qaeda” and thereby subject you to the same interrogation practices and secret trials? Can he execute you?
Where does it stop?
January 13th, 2008 at 8:11 amhttp://abcnews.go.com/WNT/Investigation/story?id=1356870
The water board technique dates back to the 1500s during the Italian Inquisition. A prisoner, who is bound and gagged, has water poured over him to make him think he is about to drown.
Current and former CIA officers tell ABC News that they were trained to handcuff the prisoner and cover his face with cellophane to enhance the distress. According to Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., himself a torture victim during the Vietnam War, the water board technique is a “very exquisite torture†that should be outlawed.
“Torture is defined under the federal criminal code as the intentional infliction of severe mental pain or suffering,†said John Sifton, an attorney and researcher with the organization Human Rights Watch. “That would include water boarding.â€
…
Water boarding was designated as illegal by U.S. generals in Vietnam 40 years ago. A photograph that appeared in The Washington Post of a U.S. soldier involved in water boarding a North Vietnamese prisoner in 1968 led to that soldier’s severe punishment.
“The soldier who participated in water torture in January 1968 was court-martialed within one month after the photos appeared in The Washington Post, and he was drummed out of the Army,†recounted Darius Rejali, a political science professor at Reed College.
Earlier in 1901, the United States had taken a similar stand against water boarding during the Spanish-American War when an Army major was sentenced to 10 years of hard labor for water boarding an insurgent in the Philippines.
“Even when you’re fighting against belligerents who don’t respect the laws of war, we are obliged to hold the laws of war,†said Rejali. “And water torture is torture.â€
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_torture
Water torture
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Water torture is torture using water, which can take several forms. Because no external marks are left on victims of water torture, it has been a favoured method of torture in various countries and political regimes.
The torture has notably been used against political prisoners
Contents
* 1 Forced ingestion
* 2 Terror of drowning
* 3 Whipping
* 4 Dripping water
* 5 Dunking
* 6 Other
* 7 Sources and notes
Terror of drowning
Main article: Waterboarding
Waterboarding refers to a technique involving water poured over the face or head of the subject, in order to evoke the instinctive fear of drowning.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding
Waterboarding
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Waterboarding is a form of torture that consists of immobilizing an individual on his or her back, with the head inclined downward, and pouring water over the face to force the inhalation of water and induce the sensation of drowning. Waterboarding has been used to obtain information, coerce confessions, punish, and intimidate. In contrast to merely submerging the head, waterboarding elicits the gag reflex, and can make the subject believe death is imminent while leaving no physical damage.
The practice garnered renewed attention and notoriety in September 2006, when further reports charged that the Bush administration had authorized the use of waterboarding on extrajudicial prisoners of the United States, often referred to as “detainees” in the U.S. war on terror. ABC News reported that current and former CIA officers stated that “there is a presidential finding, signed in 2002, by President Bush, Condoleezza Rice and then-Attorney General John Ashcroft approving the ‘enhanced’ interrogation techniques, including water boarding.” According to Republican United States Senator John McCain, who was tortured as a prisoner of war in North Vietnam, waterboarding is “torture”, “no different than holding a pistol to his head and firing a blank” and can damage the subject’s psyche “in ways that may never heal.”
January 13th, 2008 at 8:12 amTHIS IS DONE IN YOUR NAME:
http://rawstory.com/showoutarticle.php?src=http%3A%2F%2Fobserver.guardian.co.uk%2Fuk_news%2Fstory%2F0%2C%2C2137144%2C00.html
David Rose
Sunday July 29, 2007
The Observer
An Iraqi who was a key source of intelligence for MI5 has given the first ever full insider’s account of being seized by the CIA and bundled on to an illegal ‘torture flight’ under the programme known as extraordinary rendition.
In a remarkable interview for The Observer, British resident Bisher al-Rawi has told how he was betrayed by the security service despite having helped keep track of Abu Qatada, the Muslim cleric accused of being Osama bin Laden’s ‘ambassador in Europe’. He was abducted and stripped naked by US agents, clad in nappies, a tracksuit and shackles, blindfolded and forced to wear ear mufflers, then strapped to a stretcher on board a plane bound for a CIA ‘black site’ jail near Kabul in Afghanistan.
He was taken on to the jail at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba before being released last March and returned to Britain after four years’ detention without charge.
‘All the way through that flight I was on the verge of screaming,’ al-Rawi said. ‘At last we landed, I thought, thank God it’s over. But it wasn’t – it was just a refuelling stop in Cairo. There were hours still to go … My back was so painful, the handcuffs were so tight. All the time they kept me on my back. Once, I managed to wriggle a tiny bit, just shifted my weight to one side. Then I felt someone hit my hand. Even this was forbidden.’
He was thrown into the CIA’s ‘Dark Prison,’ deprived of all light 24 hours a day in temperatures so low that ice formed on his food and water. He was taken to Guantanamo in March 2003 and released after being cleared of any involvement in terrorism by a tribunal.
January 13th, 2008 at 8:13 amOf course Bush was behind this sadistic torture and was even rooting for it the entire time. Check out this extract from Chris Rowthorn’s analysis in The Smirking Chimp:
“On May 21, 2000, the New York Times reported that, as a child, Bush and his friends used to torture animals for pleasure, “`We were terrible to animals,’ recalled [Bush's boyhood friend Terry] Throckmorton, laughing. A dip behind the Bush borne turned into a small lake after a good rain, and thousands of frogs would come out. `Everybody would get BB guns and shoot them,’ Throckmorton said. `Or we’d put firecrackers in the frogs and throw them and blow them up.’” Note that the torture took place on Bush property; had Bush wanted to, he could easily have stopped this sadistic behavior. Instead, since it was his domain, it is more likely that Bush was a ringleader.
Later, while an undergrad at Yale University, Bush was a president of the Delta Kappa Epsilon fraternity, which engaged in initiation procedures described as “sadistic and obscene,” including burning pledges with a hot branding iron. When the fraternity’s sadistic rituals were uncovered by Yale authorities, Bush, then a Yale senior, defended the practice to the New York Times in an article that appeared on November 7, 1967, saying that the wound was “only a cigarette burn.”
Later, after becoming governor of Texas, Bush oversaw the executions of 131 people. In 1998, Bush signed the death warrant for a woman named Karla Tucker, who was executed on February 3, 1998. In an interview with Tucker Carlson that appeared in the September 1999 issue of Talk Magazine, Bush mocked Tucker’s last-minute pleas for clemency. In the interview, Bush imitated Tucker with an exaggerated whimper, saying, “Please don’t kill me.” Even famously right-wing Carlson was shocked at Bush’s behavior, and he wrote that as Bush performed this sadistic imitation, “I must look shocked Ëœ ridiculing the pleas of a condemned prisoner who has since been executed seems odd and cruel Ëœ because he immediately stops smirking.” This revolting incident may not prove that Bush has a predilection toward sadism or torture, but it reveals an inability to understand the suffering of another human being, which is a prerequisite to inflicting torture.”
January 13th, 2008 at 8:14 amThese long-assed posts are torture.
January 13th, 2008 at 8:28 amThanks Plunger…for giving my scroll key a workout.
January 13th, 2008 at 8:30 amhttp://www.warcrimeswatch.org
Published on Friday, November 3, 2006 by The Nation
War Criminals, Beware
by Jeremy Brecher and Brendan Smith
On November 14 a group of lawyers and other experts will come before the German federal prosecutor and ask him to open a criminal investigation targeting Donald Rumsfeld, Alberto Gonzales and other key Bush Administration figures for war crimes. The recent passage of the Military Commissions Act provides a central argument for the legal action, under the doctrine of universal jurisdiction: It demonstrates the intent of the Bush Administration to immunize itself legally from prosecution in the United States, even for the most serious crimes.
The Military Commissions Act of 2006, which the President promoted and recently signed into law, provides retroactive immunity for civilians who violated the War Crimes Act, including officials of the Bush Administration. Such an attempt to provide immunity for their crimes, it will be argued, is in itself evidence of an effort to block prosecution of those crimes. Indeed, according to Scott Horton, chair of the International Law Committee of the New York City Bar Association, when Yugoslavia sought to immunize senior government officials, the United States declared the act itself to be evidence of such a conspiracy.
“The United States declared the act itself to be evidence of such a conspiracy.â€
“The United States declared the act itself to be evidence of such a conspiracy.â€
“The United States declared the act itself to be evidence of such a conspiracy.â€
January 13th, 2008 at 8:40 amThese long-assed posts are torture.
Comment by dumbstruck — January 13, 2008 @ 8:28 am
The totality of the conspiracy cannot be fully comprehended in sound bites. But you knew that. That’s why those attempting to conceal all of the elements of the conspiracy continue to insist on form (brevity) over substance (truth).
Are you with US or against US?
As our troops in the field are dying daily, along with untold hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians, the least we can all do is take the time to read and comprehend the vastness of the conspiracy, and how every player and every action connects to every other player and action.
Connect the thousands of dots to reveal the truth.
January 13th, 2008 at 8:46 amAre you with US or against US?
Comment by plunger — January 13, 2008 @ 8:46 am
I am against multiple long posts, when a link will do, especially when I have already read most of the pages posted.
Spamming is spamming, no matter the excuse used.
January 13th, 2008 at 8:49 amDNI McConnell, “for me it would be torture.”
But, OK when done to other people?
He’s just like the RePugniScum trolls that live here!! Whaddaya expect? He’s a “loyal Bushie.” No moral core. Heartless and ignorant! A vampire!
January 13th, 2008 at 8:51 am#1, wait, swim? I thought they waterskied. Or is it the Arab menace that swims and the Persian menace that waterskis?
January 13th, 2008 at 8:59 amHeres the problem for the criminals of bushco, one lawman calls it torture and everyone in his administration is a war criminal. They ARE criminals but there is pretense of the emperor clothes by MSM and the villagers. If someone says: Im shocked…. there is but one choice..impeachment.
January 13th, 2008 at 9:11 amOh, yeah right Mikey. I sure there will be a HUGE penalty for Bush officials “if” waterboarding is defined as torture. HUGE.
January 13th, 2008 at 9:18 amBeing he is the leader of National “Intelligence” we respect “it would be torture.”
January 13th, 2008 at 10:12 amIf the Democrats had done it, it would definitely be torture.
January 13th, 2008 at 10:24 amand crucifixtion is a dawdle
January 13th, 2008 at 10:27 amWaterboarding was determined to be torture many years ago and has recently been “undefined” as torture by the Bush regime. However, let’s waterboard the Supreme Court get the kind that we are doing clarified.
January 13th, 2008 at 10:28 amAs a child, I remember hearing stories about Nazi units surrendering to US forces because they knew they would be treated fairly and humanely. This was always related in History or Civics class as part of the logic against using torture.
January 13th, 2008 at 11:05 amMdConnell: Bad things are only bad when done to me, not to them there dark folk who are not even Christian…
January 13th, 2008 at 11:38 amMcConnell said the legal test for torture should be “pretty simpleâ€: “Is it excruciatingly painful to the point of forcing someone to say something because of the pain?â€
Well, pehaps, in Mr. McConnell’s mind, that “should” be the legal test for torture. But it is not. There is a clearly defined legal test for torture, and waterboarding meets it. The US, along with the rest of the civilized world, agreed with this, until it was discovered that BushCo was using the technique. It was only at that point that the administration decided that “the legal test should be pretty simple”, as if complexity was a fatal flaw of the definition, and the source of all this controversy.
A$$hats.
January 13th, 2008 at 11:53 amComment by John Kerry — January 13, 2008 @ 11:47 am
We get it. You don’t like Ms. Clinton.
January 13th, 2008 at 11:56 amLet’s waterboard Hillary! No, wait a minute, without all that makeup on it looks like she’s already been tortured and it’s torture just to listen to her!
Comment by John Kerry
you trolls are the kind we used to torture in high school…ya never got over it did ya?
January 13th, 2008 at 11:59 amI agree with the earlier posting that we have to convince the media that it is ok to admit that waterboarding is torture and has been considered torture for centuries. George W. should be facing U.S. and international charges for ordering torture. The Democratic presidential candidates should be asked if waterboarding is torture so we can see who has the stones to put an end to this illegal and immoral practice.
January 13th, 2008 at 12:12 pmSpamming is spamming, no matter the excuse used.
Comment by Wayne — January 13, 2008 @ 8:49 am
Agreed. Every time I find multi page posts I know who the author is and I immediately skip to the next post. I assume that people post to be read. Why would someone continually make long posts that others complain about? Just start your own frickin’ blog if you have such a penchant to write. Then give a link to your writing until people start reading/subscribing on their own.
January 13th, 2008 at 1:08 pmhttp://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/02/AR2007110201170.html
McConnell warned that if waterboarding is “ever is determined to be torture, there will be a huge penalty to be paid for anyone engaging in it.â€
‘nuf sed
January 13th, 2008 at 2:16 pmplunger, someone on Liberty Forum is asking for hard evidence that the israelis did 911. I know about the very suspicious moving van company and the dancing israelis celebrating this American tragedy and some people are saying that michael moore used disinfo to say that the planes that were allowed to leave on 9/12 when all us planes were grounded was not the saudis but the israelis who did 911.
The moving van case is a little complicated and I wonder if you have a good link that outlines what the so called israeli art students, the mossad owned moving companies out of New Jersey and the planes that left just after 911 is outlined as clearly as possible.
The israel codename for 911, The Big Wedding seems to hint at the occult nature of 911 and blasphemously refers to the Marriage Feast of the Lamb by these israelis who think that God is the Jewish people. Not all Jews believe this but the N-o-a-h-i-d-e Jews need to be investigated by non-Jews and Jews.
January 13th, 2008 at 11:52 pm