Judge tells MSNBC to let Kucinich debate.
By on Jan 14th, 2008 at 8:28 pm
Judge tells MSNBC to let Kucinich debate.
“A judge in Nevada has just ordered MSNBC to include Rep. Dennis Kucinich in Tuesday’s Democratic Party presidential debate in Las Vegas or he will cancel the forum. Senior Clark County District Court Judge Charles Thompson vowed to issue an injunction halting the nationally televised debate if MSNBC failed to comply. Kucinich had filed a lawsuit seeking to be included just this morning.”
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Just bring the misses with you, Denny.
January 14th, 2008 at 8:31 pmThat’s, Ms.
Geeze.
January 14th, 2008 at 8:32 pmFantastic! Go get ‘em Dennis! Finally, some justice.
January 14th, 2008 at 8:33 pmI wonder how Kucinich’s demand for a vote recount in New Hampshire is going. Anyone know if that’s actually going forward?
January 14th, 2008 at 8:35 pmHmmmm….y’know, this could be a Pandora’s box. I doubt it will have MUCH effect outside of this judge’s jurisdiction, but I promise you Ralph Nader and other fringe candidates will try to make this a precedent.
I wonder what the legal rationale for this decision was. Kucinich has low single digit support and no chance whatsover of becoming President…this thing could be big, and not in a good way. Were this to become precedent - not likely this cycle, there isn’t time, but someone will try to get it to the Supreme Court, you heard it here first, there would be equal protection issues down the road.
January 14th, 2008 at 8:39 pmA judge that understands what Democracy is supposed to be. Awsome.
January 14th, 2008 at 8:41 pmWow! TP has posted THREE stories today on Dennis Kucinich! Imagine that, TP being a Progressive site and all!
BTW, I posted this same story in two threads about an hour ago. Did you steal my thunder TP?
January 14th, 2008 at 8:43 pmHurray for Dennis!
January 14th, 2008 at 8:44 pmBREAKING NEWS :
MSNBC Driving Visitors to Donate to Clinton Campaign
Hillary Clinton’s name on MSNBC’s Meet the Press homepage (she spoke with Tim Russert yesterday) is currently hyperlinked directly to Clinton’s campaign website, where visitors are prominently encouraged to “Drive Hillary’s campaign to victory by donating today.”
There is no contextual reason for this. The link, for example, is not an allusion to an aspect of her campaign’s web presence or fundraising strategies. Rather, it’s merely her name in the headline.
There’s no evidence that any of the other candidates has received the same treatment from Meet the Press on MSNBC’s website, including her two closest rivals for the nomination, Barack Obama and John Edwards.
So the question remains: Why is MSNBC driving their visitors to contribute to Hillary Clinton’s campaign? Certainly this is a breach of the most basic journalistic ethics or a huge gaffe. Either way, the result is the same.
http://mediabloodhound.typepad.com/ weblog/ 2008/ 01/ breaking-msnbc.html
January 14th, 2008 at 8:45 pmI wonder how Kucinich’s demand for a vote recount in New Hampshire is going. Anyone know if that’s actually going forward?
Comment by Starve-A-Bush_Feed-A-Beaver — January 14, 2008 @ 8:35 pm
It’s going forward. I believe the total amount will be approx. $67,000. If you can help with the costs please donate at http://www.Dennis4president.com.
January 14th, 2008 at 8:47 pmI hope Dennis rips into Hillary and Barack mercilessly. I hope he holds absolutely nothing back.
I hope Dennis gets a few seconds to talk about the danger of corporate entities holding the public airwaves hostage only available to cash loaded GE/Disney approved candidates. oooh wouldn’t that be great!!
January 14th, 2008 at 8:52 pmThe other recent chill I felt over the state of that democracy was symbolized by the gleeful thumbs up that ABC president David Westin gave his staff 20 minutes before airtime for Saturday’s candidate debate, when word came in that a judge had ruled against Dennis Kucinich’s last-minute lawsuit to gain inclusion in the debate. The staff cheered, the Hollywood Reporter noted with barely concealed satisfaction, as though to say: A-list celebrities only, Dennis!
- Robert Koehler, Tribune Media Services
*** Hey NBC, the PEOPLE are cheering tonight!!
January 14th, 2008 at 8:55 pm2MillionLightYearsToAndromeda @ 8:55 pm
that post is confusing… it doesn’t sound like it’s a good thing for “dennis”… somehow… maybe something’s missing…
January 14th, 2008 at 9:12 pmwhat is this about?
I guess TheZoo won’t be boycotting the “debate” after all. :-)
January 14th, 2008 at 9:13 pmIts a money game and Americans are sick of it.
Comment by BARTLEBEE — January 14, 2008 @ 8:42 pm
right. on.
the networks are only interested in the big money makers because those are the “candidates” who will spend those big bucks on ads…
jeessus h. … we have GOT to get public financing…
January 14th, 2008 at 9:15 pmBecause Kucinich speaks the truth he’s shut out, thus the truth is shut out.
People want to hear from the little guys too, and this is a step away from corporate controlled elections.
Comment by BARTLEBEE — January 14, 2008 @ 8:42 pm
At the risk of entering debate with someone whose opening rebuttal is “Aww shutup…”
I didn’t say this was a bad development, it is just a very interesting development whose unintended consequences could be far reaching should it survive review by higher courts.
Also, I don’t see how anyone can say Kucinich has been “shut out” or hasn’t had a chance to have his views aired. He ran in 04 and participated in many debates. He has been in numerous debates this time around. I have seen him on multiple talk shows. Anyone who wants to know what he thinks and what kind of President he’d be has had ample opportunity to do so. His problem is that his views do not attract wide support - they never have. If he were winning primaries and polling in the 20’s, it would make total sense for him to be in this debate. As it is, it will just dillute the airtime given to those candidates who have a legitimate shot.
January 14th, 2008 at 9:16 pmThe story is about a week old. Simplified:
…The staff at ABC News cheered when they heard Dennis wouldn’t be allowed to particpate in the ABC debate which took place last week.
Some liberal media, huh.
It is kinda confusing the way I presented it.
January 14th, 2008 at 9:16 pmIf he were winning primaries and polling in the 20’s, it would make total sense for him to be in this debate. As it is, it will just dillute the airtime given to those candidates who have a legitimate shot.
Comment by Keltoi at Night — January 14, 2008 @ 9:16 pm
He has less chance of winning primaries or polling well if no one gets to hear him, Keltoi. We are still a long way from a decision in either party and having legitimate contenders eliminated because their numbers aren’t high enough IN JANUARY is absurd. More to the point, whether Kucinich has a chance or not, or Ron Paul has a chance or not, it’s absolutely critical that they have a voice and there is no better voice at the moment than these debates.
As to your red herring above, try and remember that these are Democrats; Ralph Nader is not a Democrat.
Are you seriously suggesting that Clinton and Obama aren’t getting enough air time? Seriously?
January 14th, 2008 at 9:21 pmthe networks are only interested in the big money makers because those are the “candidates†who will spend those big bucks on ads…
Comment by katy — January 14, 2008 @ 9:15 pm
Only people with support can raise money - again, if Kucinichs ideas were popular, he’d get donations and be welcome in any venue.
Elections are competitions, after all. I reject the idea that Kucinich hasn’t had a fair opportunity to put forth his views - they just didn’t resonate, which I know is a shock and disappointment to many at TP. I’d love it if the Steelers were still in the playoffs, but at some point you have to say - you do not have what it takes to win this contest, make way for those that do.
January 14th, 2008 at 9:22 pm#4 above the recounts happens on 16th Jan.Why was he being excluded should demonstate clearly that we have no democracy it’s BS.Would be very cool if most americans just start voting out these corrupt folks who has led our country down this road with NAFTA , GATT & Telco Act of ‘96.
January 14th, 2008 at 9:26 pmComment by Keltoi at Night — January 14, 2008 @ 9:16 pm
I offer you this challenge. Ask twenty “average” people you know what their view of Kucinich is. The answer I ALWAYS get is “Who is He?”.
Most people are just starting to pay attention NOW. You and I are different. We follow the news closely. Most people don’t. People are just starting to listen. It’s Prime Time right now. Joe and Jane Sixpack have probably NEVER HEARD of Single-Payer Healthcare. They’ve probably NEVER HEARD that he’s the only candidate to oppose the war and all funding. They’ve never heard about the Dept. of Peace.
Kucinich almost always wins all the “blind” online polls when only the candiate’s positions are revealed. I believe he’s in accord with most people on the issues.
I’m almost ready to retire for the night, hopefully we can continue this another day.
January 14th, 2008 at 9:27 pmFinelly a glimmer of hope….Blessings
January 14th, 2008 at 9:27 pmAre you seriously suggesting that Clinton and Obama aren’t getting enough air time? Seriously?
Comment by gummitch — January 14, 2008 @ 9:21 pm
No, Hell no, gods, that is all that is on my TV. But I also say Kucinich has had a fair shot, he just isn’t getting any traction and he isn’t going to. He didn’t 4 years ago; he has almost exactly the same level of support now as he did then. I think I, a conservative, could do a pretty good job spelling out his platform - he has had a fair chance, but the public isn’t buying what he is selling.
Do you think for a single nano-second that his participation in this debate is going to change a thing in the outcome of the election?
And you are right about Nader not having provenance in this situation, but what about in a general election? Why couldn’t he and anyone else with 2% in the polls sue to get into a debate where their prescence was a complete distraction?
January 14th, 2008 at 9:29 pmKeltoi is right!
Only people with support from people w/ enormous sacks of money can raise money - again, if Kucinichs ideas were popular among people w/ enormous sacks of money, he’d get donations from people w/ enormous sacks of money can raise money and his money would be welcome in any venue.
It’s really just that simple people!
January 14th, 2008 at 9:31 pmI’m almost ready to retire for the night, hopefully we can continue this another day.
Comment by 2MillionLightYearsToAndromeda — January 14, 2008 @ 9:27 pm
You got it.
I think if you asked 20 people at random the only person they would know would be Hillary. Remember, 10 of those 20 will NEVER tune in, because they have no intention of voting.
But hey, whatever. It is going to be one of the Big Three that make it in the end, if Dennis gets another day in the sun, good for him. I just think this decision will have ramifications down the road.
January 14th, 2008 at 9:33 pmGood for Kucinich and good for the Judge. It’s time we stop allowing our MSM to abuse the airwaves that we give them!
January 14th, 2008 at 9:34 pmJust bring the misses with you, Denny.
Comment by Badmoodman
Have you ever heard Elizabeth Kucinich talk? I did and she brought tears to my eyes. She’s quite a woman. She’s what I think a perfect first lady would be and has nothing to do with the fact that she is gorgeous.
January 14th, 2008 at 9:35 pmOnly people with support from people w/ enormous sacks of money can raise money - again, if Kucinichs ideas were popular among people w/ enormous sacks of money, he’d get donations from people w/ enormous sacks of money can raise money and his money would be welcome in any venue.
It’s really just that simple people!
Comment by GooseEgg — January 14, 2008 @ 9:31 pm
Aw, c’mon, it isn’t just that. Ron Paul has raised more money than he ever has raised poll numbers, and those aren’t big money folks. I mean, yeah, I’d rather have rich folks in my corner, but the internet has changed things in the fundraising game.
Perhaps we are debating a chicken and egg thing - is Kucinich not getting support because he has no money or because - sorry - the public just doesn’t agree with his positons or the other way around?
January 14th, 2008 at 9:38 pmHmmmm….y’know, this could be a Pandora’s box. I doubt it will have MUCH effect outside of this judge’s jurisdiction, but I promise you Ralph Nader and other fringe candidates will try to make this a precedent.
Comment by Keltoi at Night — January 14, 2008 @ 8:39 pm
That’s fine by me. We need to hear from all our candidates no matter how kooky you may think they are (like Huckelberry, Mittens, Gohuliani, Paul, McCain and Snooze Thompson).
That’s what our election system should be about. Equal access for all candidates. Unfortunately, since the mainstream media has marginalized Kucinich, people like you can call him a “fringe” candidate. I’m willing to bet that if people across this country didn’t think a vote for kucinich would be wasted, he would win and win big. I know for sure he would win in Oregon. But since our corporate owned MSM has decided who our candidates will be, we hear nothing from Kucinich or even Edwards who has been either second or third in the races. I’m surprised MSNBC didn’t dis-invite Edwards too.
January 14th, 2008 at 9:39 pm#20 Comment by Keltoi at Night — January 14, 2008 @ 9:22 pm
Elections are competitions, after all.
NO THEY ARE NOT!!! This is not a game, Keltoi! We are electing the most powerful person in the world, here. That you compare an election and the publics right to have information with the Steelers and a game, shows how confused your thinking is.
January 14th, 2008 at 9:40 pmSo the question remains: Why is MSNBC driving their visitors to contribute to Hillary Clinton’s campaign? Certainly this is a breach of the most basic journalistic ethics or a huge gaffe. Either way, the result is the same.
That’s a no-brainer. They think that Hillary is the easiest Democrat to beat. The corporate MSM would dearly love to have Hillary as the candidate so that they can swift-boat her and beat up on her until they get their desired result. I’m not too sure that the RNC didn’t flip Obama and Hillary’s votes in New Hampshire for the same reason. Besides, they needed to test their vote machine hacking abilities and New Hampshire gave them a golden opportunity.
January 14th, 2008 at 9:44 pmComment by Merlin — January 14, 2008 @ 9:40 pm
Well said, Merlin. I can’t understand why, after the last 7 years, people aren’t taking this election process more seriously.
It’s important when things are going well, and it’s even more important when the president has turned the country on it’s ass.
January 14th, 2008 at 9:46 pmI hope Dennis rips into Hillary and Barack mercilessly. I hope he holds absolutely nothing back.
Comment by 2MillionLightYearsToAndromeda
He won’t do that. It’s not his style. I like Kucinich and I am with him on all the issues. But, for the life of me, I can’t understand why he told his delegates in Iowa to go for Obama and not Edwards. Edwards is the one candidate that is most closely aligned with Kucinich on the issues and it baffles me why he went for Obama. Does anyone have any ideas here?
January 14th, 2008 at 9:46 pmGOOD
January 14th, 2008 at 9:48 pmCan someone explain to me exactly how Kucinich has been shut out? This is his second time around, he has never exceeded single digits, he has had all kinds of exposure at debates in 04 and 08. I am not calling him fringe, Bilbo, the voters are.
And Merlin, elections ARE a competition. Democracy itself is a competition of ideas. If it wasn’t a competition then we wouldn’t keep score in the form of votes. I’ll admit the Steelers comment is flip (I get a bit obsessed this time of year) but there IS going to be a winner and a loser. You could give Kucinich a free hour of airtime and people would either not watch or not agree with what he said.
Blaming the MSM for Kucinich lack of support is just balm to your Progressive wounds that if Kucinich is on the fringe then so are many of you. I say that with respect, but I think it is true.
January 14th, 2008 at 9:48 pmyou’ve got to read this… i heard rachel maddow read some tonight:
An open letter to George W. Bush. - UAE press editorial
Abu Dhabi, Jan 11th, 2008 (WAM): In an unusual style, the Dubai-based Gulf News published today a front page editorial addressing the American President George W. Bush. The editorial, in the form of an open ‘Letter to George W. Bush’ read: ‘Dear Mr. President, On the occasion of your first official trip to this vital region, it is only appropriate to raise a few points which might also be raised by the leaders you meet. Unfortunately, you landed here with prejudice and pre-formed opinions. By describing Israel, moments after you arrived, as the ‘land of freedom’ and ‘justice’, you have shown total ignorance of the political situation in the Middle East and the issue you claim to want to solve in the remaining 12 months of your presidency. Israel, Mr. President, continues to defy every UN resolution, exercise unprecedented oppression on the occupied Palestinian people and persecute its Muslim and Christian population.
‘We realise that containing Iran, selling more weapons and securing cheap oil supplies are the main issues on your mind as you tour the region. But you need to look beyond the neocon rhetoric and speak directly to the people who have been unjustly thrown out of their land, victimised for decades by your ’strong ally’ Israel.
‘As for other matters, such as the promise of democracy and human rights, which you are expected to raise in your official talks in the region, we really don’t take them seriously. Your dreadful record on both gives you no moral right to lecture others’.
Gulf News continued its open letter in its usual editorial page: ‘Lest you forget. Invasion of Iraq. Thousands of dead. Looting the National Museum. Disbanding the Iraqi army. Donald Rumsfeld. Shock and Awe. Jay Garner. Paul Bremer. Inciting sectarianism. Abu Ghraib.
[…]
it goes on and on…
http://www.zawya.com/ story.cfm/ sidWAM20080111071010164
(i could not get the original Gulf News link to open on my puter)
i’ve posted this on other threads - please excuse the redundancy…
January 14th, 2008 at 9:49 pmbut i want to be sure it gets seen…
Perhaps we are debating a chicken and egg thing - is Kucinich not getting support because he has no money or because - sorry - the public just doesn’t agree with his positons or the other way around?
Comment by Keltoi at Night
No, Kucinich is not getting support because the MSM has a virtual black-out on coverage for him. If he can’t get his message out, how in the hell is he supposed to get people to support him? It would be like if I was running for President. The MSM wouldn’t give me the time of day so I would have no way of letting this country know what my positions were. Well that’s what is happening with Kucinich. I have talked to numerous people who knew nothing about Kucinich. I challenged them to go to his web page and find out what he stands for and to a number they all came back and said “wow”, he’s got my vote. Unfortunately Oregon will have no say in who will be our candidate just like 90% of the rest of the country.
I would bet the farm that if we had a “winner takes all” election system, a MSM that gave equal time to all candidates, and if all primaries were held on the same day (thereby giving all Americans a say on who our nominee will be), Kucinich would handily win the Democratic nomination.
January 14th, 2008 at 9:53 pmDoes anyone have any ideas here?
Comment by bilbobaggins — January 14, 2008 @ 9:46 pm
Actually, that Dennis was a Diebold Android programmed by the RNC to endorse Obama. That way, the votes the RNC stole from O and gave to HRC would not be as obvious….or am I being a little paranoid?
January 14th, 2008 at 9:53 pmI didn’t say this was a bad development
Comment by Keltoi at Night — January 14, 2008 @ 9:16 pm
and in the next breath he says;
it will just dillute the airtime given to those candidates who have a legitimate shot.
Comment by Keltoi at Night — January 14, 2008 @ 9:16 pm
:|
And he thinks he’s logical.
Comment by BARTLEBEE — January 14, 2008 @ 9:51 pm
Did it ever occur to you that diluting the message of the Dems is a good thing for conservatives? It is the Dems that will be hurt by this, DK will continue to yank the Dem process to the left and hurt them in the general.
January 14th, 2008 at 9:56 pmi’ve posted this on other threads - please excuse the redundancy…
but i want to be sure it gets seen…
Comment by katy
Wow katy, thanks for the story and the link. Imagine that. These guys are supposed to love Bush and they are a shining image of a democracy….NOT! I heard today on the news how many MEN are allowed to vote in the Arab countries and it is pretty disgusting. Women are not allowed to vote and the only men who are allowed to vote are men who can trace their ancestry back to something like 1921! And then when they actually get to vote, it’s candidates that the royal family has chosen to run. Doesn’t sound like a democracy to me.
January 14th, 2008 at 9:58 pmIn response to Keltoi and others who wonder what the judges rationale was, I would think it’s based on the idea on an implied contract. The network set the criteria that needed to be met in order to be included in the debate. Dennis met the criteria they had set, then they said, no, let’s change the rules because we don’t want you….
In a less legal sense, I think the judge agreed it’s in the best interest of the public to be able to hear the views of more than just 3 candidates (all of whom have more than enough money to get their views across just fine without a public forum.)
January 14th, 2008 at 9:59 pmI would bet the farm that if we had a “winner takes all†election system, a MSM that gave equal time to all candidates, and if all primaries were held on the same day (thereby giving all Americans a say on who our nominee will be), Kucinich would handily win the Democratic nomination.
Comment by bilbobaggins — January 14, 2008 @ 9:53 pm
God only knows what you base that on. You are a huge fan of his, I know, but the Dem primary voters in Iowa and NH know EXACTLY who he is and what he stands for, and they have said thanks but no - twice.
January 14th, 2008 at 10:01 pmDid it ever occur to you that diluting the message of the Dems is a good thing for conservatives? It is the Dems that will be hurt by this, DK will continue to yank the Dem process to the left and hurt them in the general.
Comment by Keltoi at Night
I’m sorry but most progressives will disagree with you. We, unlike you Retards, want to hear from all our candidates. And going “left” as you put it is what this country has been doing for the last 7 years. That seems to have escaped your notice. Americans overwhelmingly want us out of Iraq and want a health care system that is accessible by all. Those are two things that Kucinich has been fighting for for a long time and if people knew about him they would love him. People in this country are also sick to death of the stranglehold the corporations have on this country and Kuchinich’s populist message (like Edwards and even Huckabee) is resonating with the public. That’s why the US Chamber of Commerce is so scared they are pumping millions of dollars into candidates who will stand up for corporate greed.
January 14th, 2008 at 10:01 pmGod only knows what you base that on. You are a huge fan of his, I know, but the Dem primary voters in Iowa and NH know EXACTLY who he is and what he stands for, and they have said thanks but no - twice.
Comment by Keltoi at Night
I don’t think so. I believe that if they thought their vote would really count, many of the people who voted for Obama and Edwards would have voted for Kucinich. But since the MSM has so marginalized Kucinich, most voters know that “he doesn’t have a chance”, so they didn’t want to waste their vote. Our election system is rigged in a way that a candidate that doesn’t have firm backing from their political party has virtually no chance of winning anywhere. That’s why I am for a “winner takes all” primary and presidential election. Then “we the people” would really have a say in who our next President will be. Until that time, we are stuck with whomever our respective parties decide we will vote for.
January 14th, 2008 at 10:04 pmActually, that Dennis was a Diebold Android programmed by the RNC to endorse Obama. That way, the votes the RNC stole from O and gave to HRC would not be as obvious….or am I being a little paranoid?
Comment by Keltoi at Night
Nope, you are being the usual asshat you are here night after night after night. And personally I am really sick to death of you and your Republiscum friends. I’m to the point where I almost want to see the Democratic President round you all up and put you in the prisons that Bush paid Halliburton to build in the USA.
January 14th, 2008 at 10:06 pmSimply stated
Americans need to vote for the candidate with the most reason and the least money.
Most Americans are still wowed by the money. It’s why there are such whores in DC.
January 14th, 2008 at 10:08 pmDK will continue to yank the Dem process to the left and hurt them in the general.
Comment by Keltoi at Night — January 14, 2008 @ 9:56 pm
The further left the dems go, the more of a landslide over the dinosaurs and mass-murderers of the right. keltoi, you’re not very deep, or bright. No surprise there, but your continuous spouting of the rightwing talking points and lies are tiresome, and paint you as a hyper-partisan jerkoff. 75% of the American people want change, not your foolish bromides.
January 14th, 2008 at 10:14 pmGO DENNIS!
January 14th, 2008 at 10:24 pmMorw judges like Thompson are needed to defend the little guy.
January 14th, 2008 at 10:32 pmNope, you are being the usual asshat you are here night after night after night. And personally I am really sick to death of you and your Republiscum friends. I’m to the point where I almost want to see the Democratic President round you all up and put you in the prisons that Bush paid Halliburton to build in the USA.
Comment by bilbobaggins — January 14, 2008 @ 10:06 pm
Ah, the tolerant Left, Ladies and Gentlemen - let’s give ‘em a hand!
January 14th, 2008 at 10:42 pmKuchinich’s populist message (like Edwards and even Huckabee) is resonating with the public. That’s why the US Chamber of Commerce is so scared they are pumping millions of dollars into candidates who will stand up for corporate greed.
Comment by bilbobaggins — January 14, 2008 @ 10:01 pm
While I am still free and not in Hillary’s dungeon like you want me to be for daring to spoil your echo chamber, I’d like to point out that Huckabee’s rise explodes your point on DK. He was nowhere, a nothing, a cellar dweller like Kucinich. And then, what he said started to gain some traction. The MSM didn’t do that, the voters who listened to him and agreed with him did.
You should be blaming the stupid American voters who just can’t see what a genius Kucinich is, Bilbo. Or maybe you should blame the RNC for stealing all his votes and giving them to HRC. God knows that there is no way the Progressive agenda could be rejected by American voters, simply impossible.
January 14th, 2008 at 10:47 pmGod knows that there is no way the Progressive agenda could be rejected by American voters, simply impossible.
Comment by Keltoi at Night — January 14, 2008 @ 10:47 pm
You’re so full of shit. you know as well as we do that the MSM is driving this whole charade, at the direction of the Owners. the progressive agenda would win in landslides, if allowed anywher near the time and exposure the smarmy, lying fascists on the right think theya re entitled to. Your country is being sold, a brick at a time, and you think it’s because the voters are rejecting a message. they never get to hear the message, ass-hat. Your team could never win an honest election, and hasn’t for years. Huchabee’s rise is an indication of the power of the media to bring a shyster to the forefront. it has nothing to do with voters, at least not sane ones.
January 14th, 2008 at 10:58 pmand paint you as a hyper-partisan jerkoff.
Comment by Lefty Patriot — January 14, 2008 @ 10:14 pm
I normally ignore your hate filled garbage, but that statement coming from you was just too good a laugh. Next, plunger will accuse me of being anti-Israel and RHF will tell me I have an anger management problem.
January 14th, 2008 at 10:59 pmKeltoi at Night says of Dennis K. “you do not have what it takes to win this contest, make way for those that do”.
We are very close again to having our president chosen by the press. If one follows many journalists and talk shows, the scripts are there, the subject matter about the candidates is preordained for us. They all cover Hillary’s emotion or some sound bite reference to MLK, on and on with the same trivial coverage. Would not it be refreshing if the writers were impartial and just covered the issues addressed by the candidates. I am so dispirited by the direction the press coverage takes when all the takes reiterate. Are there no new observations, no insights beyond what every other media hack is commenting on? I fear the press is pushing another Bush our way.
January 14th, 2008 at 11:14 pm“I’d like to point out that Huckabee’s rise explodes your point on DK. He was nowhere, a nothing, a cellar dweller like Kucinich.”
That is not true. Huckabee was at worst in 4th place.
January 14th, 2008 at 11:42 pm“and their exchange was captured on camera and an open microphone after one such event in Detroit. Kucinich felt the comment was directed at him.”
Where is this clip?
January 14th, 2008 at 11:45 pmYeah the favoritism is getting extremely distasteful.
Obama vs Hillary (and no one else is obviously running…)
January 14th, 2008 at 11:45 pm“There are numerous “caught on tape†video of Clinton and Edwards conspiring to eliminate candidates with Hillary informing Edwards that her campaign has been working on this for awhile and she would get back to him with an update.”
Where is this tape, justasking?
January 14th, 2008 at 11:46 pmYou even put your caught on tape in quotes. I am willing to bet you can’t come up with this “footage”, justasking. More smoke and BS from you.
January 14th, 2008 at 11:48 pmWhat I see, justasking is typical Hillary being a triangulating, overbearing b!tch and Kucinich then trying to blame Edwards as well. Doesn’t make Dennis look so good.
January 15th, 2008 at 12:05 amBut you, of course will see what you want…as always.
January 15th, 2008 at 12:08 amI wonder what the legal rationale for this decision was. Kucinich has low single digit support and no chance whatsover of becoming President…this thing could be big, and not in a good way.
Comment by Keltoi at Night — January 14, 2008 @ 8:39 pm
Paul, Gravel, and Kucinich take no money from AIPAC, the front for PNAC and Likud. Does this mean anything to you, or are you stupid?
January 15th, 2008 at 12:09 am“You’re taking quotes from my post as though they can be attributed to me. The content of the post is a snip from the article’s link.”
Um, no, I’m not. This was your post; “There are numerous “caught on tape†video of Clinton and Edwards conspiring to eliminate candidates with Hillary informing Edwards that her campaign has been working on this for awhile and she would get back to him with an update.”
Don’t start your whoa is me victimization spiel.
January 15th, 2008 at 12:12 amDoes this mean anything to you, or are you stupid?
Comment by Brain From Planet Arous — January 15, 2008 @ 12:09 am
I am pretty sure it means I am about to get hit with a anti-semitic conspiracy theory, alas….
January 15th, 2008 at 12:14 amWhat, justasking, you just added a whole paragraph to my post?
January 15th, 2008 at 12:17 amjustasking, find me one where Edwards is in agreement…just one.
January 15th, 2008 at 12:18 amAhh, I see, no, you see I was just copying your post. I did not say those were your words.
January 15th, 2008 at 12:19 amHowever, you seem to be picking nits since you said virtually the same thing a few posts later.
January 15th, 2008 at 12:20 amSince you are too biased (or blind?) to have an actual conversation, I am done with you, yes.
January 15th, 2008 at 12:29 amNo, the miserable selection of alternative candidates did that.
Comment by BARTLEBEE — January 15, 2008 @ 12:35 am
Ha! Yeah, you got that right….
January 15th, 2008 at 12:40 amNor for the RNC.
Comment by BARTLEBEE — January 15, 2008 @ 12:44 am
I know, I know….McCain’s resurgence gives me hope - Huck and Rombot are unsupportable.
January 15th, 2008 at 12:52 amCan someone explain to me exactly how Kucinich has been shut out?
Comment by Keltoi at Night
BY cutting his mike off on a Presidential Debate?
January 15th, 2008 at 1:05 amMy guess is NBC will reluctantly allow him to debate, snub him the entire time then ask him one question near the end about UFOs. Not really a revenge tactic as much as it’d just be like all the other debates.
Anyone up for taking a cue from the Ron Paul supporters and chasing Chris Matthews down the street yelling “YOU SUCK!!!”?
January 15th, 2008 at 1:35 amHmmmm….y’know, this could be a Pandora’s box. I doubt it will have MUCH effect outside of this judge’s jurisdiction, but I promise you Ralph Nader and other fringe candidates will try to make this a precedent.
I wonder what the legal rationale for this decision was. Kucinich has low single digit support and no chance whatsover of becoming President…this thing could be big, and not in a good way. Were this to become precedent - not likely this cycle, there isn’t time, but someone will try to get it to the Supreme Court, you heard it here first, there would be equal protection issues down the road.
Comment by Keltoi at Night — January 14, 2008 @ 8:39 pm
Apologies for coming in so late but I work nights and just got in here. Anyway………
January 15th, 2008 at 1:56 amTo take your points in order:
1–This is NOT a precedent setter for a third-party candidate to be invited into a national debate. This debate was SOLELY for Democratic nominees. When Nader (or another) decides to participate within the Democratic or Republican primary process as a candidate for one of those parties, then he can consider this as a precedent.
2–Kucinich WAS initially invited to the debate, then was DISinvited for NO APPARENT RATIONAL REASON. Kucinich had essentially turned into a “substitute” for Richardson; when Richardson dropped out, Kucinich was invited to participate. According to the timeline I’ve read, Kucinich was disinvited just hours after the original offer to participate. MSNBC allegedly used Kucinich’s “low standing in the polls” as the reason for revoking the invitation, but Richardson’s invitation was made when HIS poll numbers were not much higher than Kucinich’s.
3–Any future precedent that *might* be set will likely come under the fact that the airwaves belong to the people and that ANY network which chooses to not invite a candidate into a debate the network airs will have to set up their prerequisites well ahead of time and NOT be allowed to change the rules in midstream. (Let’s say a network announces it will host a debate on February 1. Candidates will be formally invited if they receive a minimum of X% in the last NATIONAL poll taken on or before January 15. No candidate’s invitation will be rescinded after that date no matter how low in the national polls, he/she may fall. Only the candidate, not his staff, may refuse the invitation with the understanding that if the network hosts another debate, he/she will not receive an invitation, regardless of poll standing. Additionally, any candidate who withdraws from the race will lose his/her invitation. If a poll released by January 25 indicates that an uninvited candidate has increased to that original X%, the network may opt to invite him/her as a replacement.)
The sheer fact that - again! - the ‘fundaments’ of U.S. ‘democracy’ need to be decided in court tell me nothing has changed one bit since 2000 and a new ‘floridasco’ is probably in the making. Also, there really is nothing the MSM is still doing right these days, is there? Frontrunners Hillary and Obama aren’t worth the hype while Edwards is being silenced. The media are about as informative as McCain is a straight talker….
January 15th, 2008 at 2:27 amAs it should be…it seemed the MSNBC folksl were trying to shape the debate. I could be wrong but….
January 15th, 2008 at 5:40 amGet the hell of the stage and let the grown-ups talk Dennis.
We’ve got a real race, and and sub-1% Dennis isn’t in it. He’s just going to take up valuable time and go on about the crap he has stuffed in his pockets and his sophomoric Department of Peace.
GAWD!
January 15th, 2008 at 5:55 amHe’s polling low. Yes, that’s true. But poll numbers should not exclude him. The debate will be better with him included because he potentially can swing the conversation toward topics that Hillary et al. would rather ignore (i.e., important issues). I have a feeling Edwards is the only mainstream candidate who can profit from this. That’s a good thing.
January 15th, 2008 at 6:17 amHmmmm….y’know, this could be a Pandora’s box. I doubt it will have MUCH effect outside of this judge’s jurisdiction, but I promise you Ralph Nader and other fringe candidates will try to make this a precedent.
I wonder what the legal rationale for this decision was. Kucinich has low single digit support and no chance whatsover of becoming President…this thing could be big, and not in a good way. Were this to become precedent - not likely this cycle, there isn’t time, but someone will try to get it to the Supreme Court, you heard it here first, there would be equal protection issues down the road.
Comment by Keltoi at Night — January 14, 2008 @ 8:39 pm
Where is your love for freedom and justice? Every candidate must be heard, specially in the so called “Leader of the free world” (ha!) Democracy . Doing anything else is pretending to shape the freedom of voters. Where is your Republican “do it yourself” attitude?
January 15th, 2008 at 7:35 amI am glad TP is finally focusing on Kucinich. The other three AIPAC stooges aren’t worth taking the time to watch or read about. The only hope is Kucinich and he will change the dialogue if given a chance. There would be the support for Kucinich that Ron Paul has if the left gatekeeper blogs, most especially FireDogLake and Daily Kos had not utterly ignored the only real, progressive and honest candidate. Kucinich is the only one doing his job as Congressperson - see Kucinich’s articles of impeachment on his government website and calling bush to account for his threats against Iran and lies that took our troops to Iraq where they are being slaughtered everyday for israel.
January 15th, 2008 at 8:48 amhttp://www.libertyforum.org/ showflat.php?Cat=&Board=news_politics&Number=296000176&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=21&part=1#Post296005348
Dear Kucinich Supporters,
FINALLY, the principle that we are a nation of laws and not of corporate media control has prevailed. And without your support, your phone calls and emails and letters, this issue might never have attracted the national attention it has.
BUT, while Dennis is preparing to go to Nevada - court order in hand - to represent your interests, expect that MSNBC, NBC, its parent company GE, and dozens of other alphabet-soup corporations in the nation will start filing appeals on top of appeals to keep Dennis out of the debate and try to deplete our limited financial resources. Multi-billion corporations don’t want Dennis on that stage Tuesday night. And they will do everything; spend anything they need to make sure that his voice - your voice - is not heard. The law is on our side, but the dollars are on theirs.
NOW, more than ever, we need your continued financial support to stop megalomania-media from robbing you of your Constitutional rights, taking control of the American electoral process, and hand-picking the candidates they want you to choose from.
Defend your rights today. Make a contribution today to the only candidate who is willing to challenge the powerful interests that want to control you.
They will try to outspend us, but, with your help, they won’t be able to out-fight us. Please, contribute whatever you can to defend your rights, and ask everyone you know to do the same.
We won today, but tomorrow is another battle.
Strength through Peace
Kucinich Campaign
http://www.politicalaffairs.net/ article/ articleview/ 6356/ 1/ 308/
[image]http://www2.kucinich.us/files/images/pics%20fior%20website/pax.jpg[/image]
January 15th, 2008 at 8:51 amGet the hell of the stage and let the grown-ups talk Dennis.
We’ve got a real race, and and sub-1% Dennis isn’t in it. He’s just going to take up valuable time and go on about the crap he has stuffed in his pockets and his sophomoric Department of Peace.
GAWD!
Comment by coaxial — January 15, 2008 @ 5:55 am
This is the primaries, the first time voters get to actually vote and polls don’t mean crap. How did the polls work in NH?
Since these are the primaries, everyone on the ballot deserves a voice and a chance to be heard. Every voter has the right to hear what EACH candidate has to say, not just the “front runners” the media is pushing, while they silence other voices.
After the primaries are over, then you have the Democratic candidate and the Repuke, plus any independents. I expect to be able to hear from each candidate in those debates as well
Don’t like Dennis, don’t vote for him, but don’t you ( or the media ) dare to silence a voice before the primaries are over.
Gawd! how can you be so fscking ignorant.
January 15th, 2008 at 8:54 amWhat about Gravel?
January 15th, 2008 at 9:02 amI am pretty sure it means I am about to get hit with a anti-semitic conspiracy theory, alas….
Comment by Keltoi at Night
Just because someone disagrees with Israel as a government entity does not make them anti-semitic….
January 15th, 2008 at 9:19 amGet the hell of the stage and let the grown-ups talk Dennis.
We’ve got a real race, and and sub-1% Dennis isn’t in it. He’s just going to take up valuable time and go on about the crap he has stuffed in his pockets and his sophomoric Department of Peace.
GAWD!
Comment by coaxial
I’m wondering why you even care….anyone who makes fun of the idea of a department of peace is obviously not a member of the same party as Dennis……
January 15th, 2008 at 9:21 amJust because someone disagrees with Israel as a government entity does not make them anti-semitic….
Comment by Fred — January 15, 2008 @ 9:19 am
Thank you Fred. it is like saying I despise Bush, Cheney, Rove, ad nauseum, so therefore I am Un-American. Of course, the same Crackpots who attacked Clinton or Carter incessantly did not consider themselves Un-American. What they attempting to say is only people who support Fascistic, Right Wing War-Mongers are “Pro-American”.
The Likudists/Zionists are Neo-Cons, and most of the common people in Israel despise them, the same way the Bushies and Nixonians are despised here. All of these people are making tons of money off of war. That is all they know. They are not creative, compassionate, technological, or forward looking. They are the heir apparent of Attila the Hun, Ramses II, Hannibal, Nero, Caesar, Amin, Mussolini, Napoleon, Pinochet, Hitler, and Stalin.
January 15th, 2008 at 11:06 amWord has it that NBC is appealing the ruling of Judge Thompson’s ruling to let stand DK’s invitation to debate to the Nevada Supreme court.
And all the armchair commandoes will do what?
What will it take to start an orange revolution?
January 15th, 2008 at 1:20 pmMedia manipulation of the message is one of the overarching characteristics of FASCISM.
Welcome to the newest banana republic.
January 15th, 2008 at 1:29 pm