ThinkFast: January 15, 2008
ThinkFast: January 15, 2008
Tonight’s Republican presidential primary in Michigan is “this election year’s first clear referendum” on the economy, state voters’ top concern. Conditions have left Michigan “in a virtual single-state recession” with an unemployment rate of seven percent, the highest in the nation.
“Sen. Chris Dodd (D-CT) returns full time to the Senate this month with high expectations from his colleagues — and particularly his leadership — that he will play a key role in their plans to make the economy a dominant issue this year.” An aide added that “Dodd will not lose focus on the FISA issue.”
With “just 32 percent of Americans” now approving of the way he is handling his job, “President Bush starts the last year of his presidency with the worst approval rating of his career.” Sixty-six percent of Americans disapprove of Bush’s job performance.
President Bush yesterday “launched a rare round of intensive personal diplomacy with Saudi King Abdullah aimed at winning support for a variety of American objectives such as rebuilding Iraq, pressuring Iran, fighting al-Qaeda and backing the U.S.-brokered peace talks between Israel and the Palestinians.”
The House Intelligence Committee has postponed testimony from former CIA official Jose Rodriguez Jr., who destroyed videotapes showing harsh interrogation tactics, “after being told that he would not answer questions without a grant of legal immunity for his testimony.” Senior CIA lawyer John A. Rizzo is still scheduled to appear tomorrow.
Federal authorities expect to “deport more than 200,000 immigrants this year who are convicted criminals serving time in prisons and jails across the country, said Julie Myers of the Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency, which is spearheading the effort.
“Patients are waiting longer for care in the nation’s emergency rooms, a potentially deadly result of the shrinking number of emergency departments and rising demand for emergency services, according to a new study by researchers at Harvard Medical School.” Between 1997 and 2004, median waiting times increased by 36 percent.
Iraqi defense minister Abdul Qadir said Monday that Iraq “would not be able to take full responsibility for its internal security until 2012, nor be able on its own to defend Iraq’s borders from external threat until at least 2018.” The predictions were “even less optimistic than those he made last year.”
And finally: Love can transcend politics. Meghan McCain, Sen. John McCain’s (R-AZ) “bloggy” daughter, recently went on a date with “an ardent Ron Paul supporter.” “The date became all about him trying to convince her about Paul,” noted one of Meghan’s friends. “Finally she said, ‘You know my dad’s running for president. You’re not going to change my mind!‘”
What did we miss? Let us know in the comments section.
Good morning, campers.
32% of Germans still approved of Hitler in April, 1945 too.
January 15th, 2008 at 9:05 amOh did you see Bush running around and complimenting all of the Gulf autocrats and dictators for being such progressive nations?
Then they promoting with pride how Bush was staying at a hotel that cost 3 billion dollars to build. Talk about decadence.
-GSD
January 15th, 2008 at 9:07 amHuckabee in Fla (?) yesterday stated he wants to amend the Constitution so that it reflects God’s law.
January 15th, 2008 at 9:08 amPresident Bush yesterday “launched a rare round of intensive personal diplomacy with Saudi King Abdullah…
WTF is ‘intensive personal diplomacy’? Sounds like a laxative. Not that Bush isn’t constipated for new ideas & policies, but diplomacy? I doubt if he can spell it, let alone practice it.
What are the odds OPEC will change production output as a result of this ‘personal diplomacy? About the same as Cheney becoming a Democrat…
January 15th, 2008 at 9:11 amHuckabee in Fla (?) yesterday stated he wants to amend the Constitution so that it reflects God’s law.
Comment by Wilco — January 15, 2008 @ 9:08 am
South Carolina.
January 15th, 2008 at 9:13 amAnd finally: Love can transcend politics. Meghan McCain, Sen. John McCain’s (R-AZ) “bloggy†daughter, recently went on a date with “an ardent Ron Paul supporter.â€
- - - - -
At least he didn’t hit her up for a campaign donation.
January 15th, 2008 at 9:15 amIraqi security forces have taken over control of internal security in 9 of its 18 provinces, and a 10th (Anbar) is occuring in March. Progress is being steadily made which should allow for a gradual troop draw-down, but the 18th of the 18 provinces may not be under full Iraqi control for a couple more years.
Comment by good_golly — January 15, 2008 @ 9:11 am
Hey, goon_golly. Out of those 18 provinces, which actually have a significant population? And since when do you know more about Iraqi internal security than the Iraqi defense minister? Polishing up the troll super secret powers?
January 15th, 2008 at 9:15 amHuckabee = American Taliban
January 15th, 2008 at 9:15 amUnfortunately, Michigan’s results will be inconclusive, because the Dem’s aren’t counting those delegates (but you can bet a win for Clinton will allow her to claim that she is the inevitable candidate), and individuals can vote across party lines.
All candidates will remain in the race until Super Tuesday, although if Fred Thompson gets 1% or less again, he may bow out after South Carolina.
January 15th, 2008 at 9:16 amHuckster and God’s law - Is that the God that calls him on the cell phone, or is it the one that appears after alcohol consumption?
January 15th, 2008 at 9:17 amthanks gummitch
January 15th, 2008 at 9:18 amAn aide added that “Dodd will not lose focus on the FISA issue.
All I can say is thank god for Chris Dodd. Without him our Democratic party would have sold us down the river again. Now, if they would just kick Harry Reid to the curb and put Chris Dodd into his place, I would be a very happy camper.
January 15th, 2008 at 9:19 amWhat did we miss? Ms. Rice is back in Baghdad. Must be a big shoe sale in progress.
January 15th, 2008 at 9:21 amComment by celtic cynic
Either way, it’s one of the most offensive, anti-American things I’ve heard uttered in a presidential campaign.
January 15th, 2008 at 9:21 amThe House Intelligence Committee has postponed testimony from former CIA official Jose Rodriguez Jr., who destroyed videotapes showing harsh interrogation tactics…
Give the man immunity for gods sake. He didn’t do what he did without orders from above. Give him immunity for giving up the people who gave him the order. What is the problem here. Has he said he needs immunity but won’t give them anything in return?
But, once you give him immunity, make sure he is well protected because his life won’t be worth much to the Bush Crime Family once they know he is going to blow the whistle on them.
January 15th, 2008 at 9:23 amPatients are waiting longer for care in the nation’s emergency rooms, a potentially deadly result of the shrinking number of emergency departments….
Well, I guess that does away with the Republiscum answer to not having health coverage…telling people to go to the emergency room. That’s one of the problems the emergency rooms are having, so many people without health care who go there for routine medical care.
January 15th, 2008 at 9:25 amWe have a new record!!!
Comment by good_golly
Where do you get the we part…..you’re not even a member of the human race, let alone one of us.
January 15th, 2008 at 9:27 amraqi defense minister Abdul Qadir said Monday that Iraq “would not be able to take full responsibility for its internal security until 2012, nor be able on its own to defend Iraq’s borders from external threat until at least 2018.â€
Give me a break. If they were put in a position where they had to take care of their own security without the United States to front for them, they would figure it out very quickly. As long as they can keep putting the US soldiers out there to get shot at, why in the hell should they go out and get shot at.
My what a mess you have created King George.
January 15th, 2008 at 9:27 amWilco, you blew it. Now we won’t have a daily double. I guess all progressives now recognize that 9-11 wasn’t a conspiracy after all, but was an attack by Islamic extremists.
Comment by good_golly — January 15, 2008 @ 9:20 am
- - - - -
Conspiracy is defined as “a secret agreement between two or more people to perform an unlawful act”
So, technically, 911 was still a conspiracy.
January 15th, 2008 at 9:27 amWe need the same heath care that cheney has:
We all deserve CheneyCare
January 15th, 2008 at 9:28 amWe have a new record!!! It only took one post for the first Hitler comment to appear. Congratulations!!! Now if we can follow it with a 9-11 conspiracy comment before the 12th post, we have a daily double!!!!!
Comment by good_golly
We are sorry, goon_golly, that the comparisons between Bush and Hitler are so stark and obvious. We know that makes you uncomfortable. But you know what, we really don’t care if you are uncomfortable. You are here for only one reason, and that is to disrupt.
January 15th, 2008 at 9:30 amWe have a new record!!! It only took one post for the first Hitler comment to appear. Congratulations!!! Now if we can follow it with a 9-11 conspiracy comment before the 12th post, we have a daily double!!!!!
Comment by good_golly — January 15, 2008 @ 9:13 am
you boot-licking 9-11 truth-haters crack me up!
Loose Change
http://video.google.com/ videoplay?docid=7866929448192753501&
Improbable Collapse: The Demolition of our Republic
January 15th, 2008 at 9:30 amhttp://video.google.com/ videoplay?docid=4026073566596731782
President Bush yesterday “launched a rare round of intensive personal diplomacy with Saudi King Abdullah…
I wonder if he even got a reacharound.
January 15th, 2008 at 9:31 amspeaking of bush and hitler….
bush’s granddad prescott bush supplied hitler and nazi germany with over HALF of their wartime iron and steel….
looks like treason runs deep in that family!
January 15th, 2008 at 9:31 amWhat did we miss? This.
January 15th, 2008 at 9:32 amFederal authorities expect to “deport more than 200,000 immigrants this year who are convicted criminals serving time in prisons and jails across the country…
Can we include all the convicted Neoturds in this deportation? I don’t really care where they drop them, as long as it’s not in this country.
…I hear Cuba’s nice this time of year…
January 15th, 2008 at 9:32 amNow if we can follow it with a 9-11 conspiracy comment before the 12th post, we have a daily double!!!!
Why don’t you go back to forwarding “Obama is a secret Muslim” emails around to your fascist associates. So… conspiracy theories are bad now? Will they stay bad after the paranoid nonsense that you are about to regurgitate sprays out of your mouth like projectile vomit?!?
Somehow I don’t think so.
January 15th, 2008 at 9:35 amCheney’s insurance wouldn’t get you quicker care in an ER.
January 15th, 2008 at 9:37 amIt’s more sad than anything. ERs are closing down because it’s where all uninsured go, who are also far more likely to not pay their bills, so ERs cant afford to stay open. And ER bills cost more than doctor visits, so it’s just a poor situation no matter how you look at it.
Then they promoting with pride how Bush was staying at a hotel that cost 3 billion dollars to build. Talk about decadence. -GSD
Comment by GSD — January 15, 2008 @ 9:07 am
and i hear that hotel TRUCKED IN SAND FROM ALGERIA…
go figure…
January 15th, 2008 at 9:40 amCheney’s insurance wouldn’t get you quicker care in an ER.
It’s more sad than anything. ERs are closing down because it’s where all uninsured go, who are also far more likely to not pay their bills, so ERs cant afford to stay open. And ER bills cost more than doctor visits, so it’s just a poor situation no matter how you look at it.
Comment by Wilco
You kinda answered your own question…..if we had chenycare we wouldn’t need the ER as much….right?
We all deserve Cheney Care
January 15th, 2008 at 9:41 am#27 What did we miss? This. -Comment by alpuz3
Thanks for the link on McConnell…I thought this question in the link had merit:
- Why are Presidential papers — allegedly related to war crimes — “protected” but US citizen’s communications are subject to ongoing monitoring; why isn’t the reverse true: Automatic monitoring of the President’s activities to ensure his compliance with the Constitution; and warrants for intrusion upon American citizens’ data?
That’s the kind of answer and ‘out of the box’ thinking we can expect from Kucinich. That’s also why the MSM & GOP don’t want him on TV.
January 15th, 2008 at 9:41 amEven Pres. Candidate Edwards says it will be 21-22 months from now, even if he is elected.
Comment by good_golly
You know, goon_golly, it would be nice if you tried to use the gray matter between your ears occasionally. Edwards says it will be 21-22 months because thats how long, logistically, it will take to bring our soldiers home safely. If Edwards was to pull out our troops and contractors, that’s over 300,000 people he would have to move, not counting all the equipment. Divide that by 23 months and that’s more than 13,000 people he will have to move out each month to get them all out in 23 months.
January 15th, 2008 at 9:41 am32 followup….of course I am for Dennis’ idea but if I can’t have it I want what cheny has.
January 15th, 2008 at 9:42 amWell, if we had Cheney’s insurance, we wouldn’t need an ER ever at all because we too would have an ambulance right around the corner at all times.
January 15th, 2008 at 9:43 amSo (1) even with good insurance, ER waiting times aren’t going to decrease
(2) they’re long partly because ERs are closing due to high costs and fewer payments.
you’ve got to read this… i heard rachel maddow read some last night:
An open letter to George W. Bush. - UAE press editorial
Abu Dhabi, Jan 11th, 2008 (WAM): In an unusual style, the Dubai-based Gulf News published today a front page editorial addressing the American President George W. Bush. The editorial, in the form of an open ‘Letter to George W. Bush’ read: ‘Dear Mr. President, On the occasion of your first official trip to this vital region, it is only appropriate to raise a few points which might also be raised by the leaders you meet. Unfortunately, you landed here with prejudice and pre-formed opinions. By describing Israel, moments after you arrived, as the ‘land of freedom’ and ‘justice’, you have shown total ignorance of the political situation in the Middle East and the issue you claim to want to solve in the remaining 12 months of your presidency. Israel, Mr. President, continues to defy every UN resolution, exercise unprecedented oppression on the occupied Palestinian people and persecute its Muslim and Christian population.
‘We realise that containing Iran, selling more weapons and securing cheap oil supplies are the main issues on your mind as you tour the region. But you need to look beyond the neocon rhetoric and speak directly to the people who have been unjustly thrown out of their land, victimised for decades by your ’strong ally’ Israel.
‘As for other matters, such as the promise of democracy and human rights, which you are expected to raise in your official talks in the region, we really don’t take them seriously. Your dreadful record on both gives you no moral right to lecture others’.
Gulf News continued its open letter in its usual editorial page: ‘Lest you forget. Invasion of Iraq. Thousands of dead. Looting the National Museum. Disbanding the Iraqi army. Donald Rumsfeld. Shock and Awe. Jay Garner. Paul Bremer. Inciting sectarianism. Abu Ghraib.
[…]
it goes on and on…
http://www.zawya.com/ story.cfm/ sidWAM20080111071010164
(i could not get the original Gulf News link to open on my puter)
reposted again this morning, in case anyone missed it last night…
January 15th, 2008 at 9:43 am“Sen. Chris Dodd (D-CT) returns full time to the Senate this month with high expectations from his colleagues — and particularly his leadership — that he will play a key role in their plans to make the economy a dominant issue this year.†An aide added that “Dodd will not lose focus on the FISA issue.â€
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I’m sorry that Dodd wasn’t a viable candidate for president, because I think that his is a voice that deserves to be heard. However, I’m glad that he’s back using that voice to do what’s best for America. Perhaps other senators who happen to be presidential candidates will drop by to support him once in awhile? Yes — Hillary and Barack — I’m talking about you!
January 15th, 2008 at 9:46 amOK, unless everyone had insurance, but even then, there are still enough morons in the world who go to the ER because of a cough, sneeze and a fart.
January 15th, 2008 at 9:46 ammissmolly,
we need people like dodd & kucinich in the congress for obvious reasons. the president is just a puppet. there WILL be a dem president this next go round, but we need the true Constitutionists to remain in the congress.
January 15th, 2008 at 9:49 amWhat did you miss?
Economy Sucky Bigtime:
http://www.bloomberg.com/ apps/ news?pid=20601087&sid=aVzW9CqcO2Yg&refer=home
Dow heading South.
January 15th, 2008 at 9:49 amI have a feeling that “intensive PERSONAL diplomacy” is just a whole lot of pleading for things that will benefit Bush ‘personally’.
We’ve had seven years of “what’s good for me is good for us” government, and look where it’s gotten us. I really hope we can try “what’s good for all of us is good for me” soon.
January 15th, 2008 at 9:50 amSo (1) even with good insurance, ER waiting times aren’t going to decrease
(2) they’re long partly because ERs are closing due to high costs and fewer payments.
Comment by Wilco
If we had universal health care wait times at ER’s would definitely be better for two reasons. The first is that there would not be people with no health insurance using the ER’s as their primary physicians thereby reducing the load and the second is that the hospitals would receive a fair fee for taking care of people and wouldn’t have to close because they can’t pay their bills.
January 15th, 2008 at 9:50 amMichigan is a microcosm of America’s recession…many good paying factory jobs have been routed overseas. The ripple effect from the Auto industry failing to keep up with consumer needs has led to thousands of other peripheral businesses failing, as well.
7+% unemployment will become commonplace around the country by the end of the year. We will hear how tax cuts will solve this problem…they won’t.
We will hear how infusing big business with more Federal dollars, particularly the mortgage lenders, will solve the problem…it won’t.
We will hear how expanded wiretapping on our citizens will improve our security…it won’t.
We will hear how the stock market is just ’self correcting’…it won’t.
As long as corporations are allowed to use offshore headquarters to avoid paying a fair share of taxable profit income while still reaping the benefits of the American consumer market our economy will struggle mightily to recover, but…it won’t.
America, time is running out. Do we really want more of the same from our leadership & elected officials?…I don’t.
January 15th, 2008 at 9:52 amOK, unless everyone had insurance, but even then, there are still enough morons in the world who go to the ER because of a cough, sneeze and a fart.
Comment by Wilco
That is a ridiculous assertion. If everyone had access to good medical care, why would they choose to go sit in an ER for a minor ailment. You sure want to twist things so they come to your way of thinking, don’t you.
January 15th, 2008 at 9:52 amTry using logical thought processes occasionally. You might like the outcome and you will sound like much less of an idiot.
OK, unless everyone had insurance, but even then, there are still enough morons in the world who go to the ER because of a cough, sneeze and a fart.
Comment by Wilco
I’m sorry but I can’t follow your logic….what the hell are you trying to say…..let’s just give up and die…..do you have anything to contribute to the conversation or do you just plan to criticize everything that has to do with health care improvement options for Americans?
January 15th, 2008 at 9:53 amAll Ron Paul supporters are ardent supporters. It seems to me that they are all about as in tune with their surroundings as Meghan McCain’s date. It sound’s like the guy was more ardent about Ron than he was about Meghan.
January 15th, 2008 at 9:54 ambilbo, you’re right, universal care takes care of a lot
January 15th, 2008 at 9:54 amMaybe you can try harder tomorrow and get both of TP’s favorite topics (Hitler comparisons and 9-11 conspiracies) in the top 10.
Comment by good_golly — January 15, 2008 @ 9:51 am
And maybe you’ll eventually get through the fifth grade and start making a contribution somewhere, other than producing too much methane.
I doubt it, though. Seems like science fiction.
January 15th, 2008 at 9:55 amI’m sorry that Dodd wasn’t a viable candidate for president….
Comment by missmolly
Dodd is more than a viable candidate for President, he’s just not the DLC’s and the MSM’s anointed candidate. Until we get a system where we vote for President on a winner takes all basis, we will be subjected to the whims and follies of our political parties. I would so love to see political parties taken out of the mix. Then and only then would “we the people” have a chance to say who we want to be our President.
January 15th, 2008 at 9:55 amAll Ron Paul supporters are ardent supporters. It seems to me that they are all about as in tune with their surroundings as Meghan McCain’s date. It sound’s like the guy was more ardent about Ron than he was about Meghan.
Comment by Peter C — January 15, 2008 @ 9:54 am
Which is some twisted sh!t. Maybe the Ron Paulies are destined to die out because they lack the reproductive instincts.
January 15th, 2008 at 9:56 amComment by good_golly
can’t imagine that you think anyone here gives a hoot what you think or what astounding revelations might be rattling around in the emptiness of your scull…
January 15th, 2008 at 9:58 ambilbobaggins! Have you seen Steve Novick’s first commercial?
Note to non-Oregonians: Novick is running in the Democratic primary so he can face off with Senator Gordon “FlippityFloppity” Smith.
Novick is 4′11″ and missing (from birth) his left hand. He’s got a mean left hook.
January 15th, 2008 at 10:00 amComment by good_golly
In case you hadn’t noticed…..I have stopped quoting anything from you except your sig…..I have no desire to repeat your slurs for you.
January 15th, 2008 at 10:01 am“Patients are waiting longer for care in the nation’s emergency rooms, a potentially deadly result of the shrinking number of emergency departments and rising demand for emergency services, according to a new study by researchers at Harvard Medical School.†Between 1997 and 2004, median waiting times increased by 36 percent.
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We have had a number of threads at TP regarding the sorry state of health insurance in this country — threads about SCHIP, Michael Moore’s Sicko, and health care in general. In every one of them, we have politically conservative posters with an “I got mine” attitude who truly don’t see how the uninsured in this country could possibly affect them.
It has been pointed out to them already how they are already being affected by rising numbers of uninsured people in this country. The cost of insurance is being continually driven up by the uninsured — something that many insured people just can’t fathom.
When the uninsured don’t have access to routine check-ups and wellness programs, they get sick. When they get sick enough (and they do without treatment), they go to an emergency room for their care. When they can’t pay for their treatment there, the emergency room has to make up their costs by charging more for their services — hitting up the insured people who CAN pay. Insurance companies, faced with paying out more and more in claims, then have to raise their rates. When this happens, another layer of people become uninsured when they can no longer afford their premiums, or when their employer can no longer afford to provide health insurance benefits. Repeat cycle.
And now the stakes have been raised, even for the rich who would probably be the last to be affected by the vicious circle I described. Emergency room access at any price will be harder to get as they become more crowded and fewer in number.
January 15th, 2008 at 10:05 amDodd as VP, I like the sound of that.
January 15th, 2008 at 10:06 amAll Ron Paul supporters are ardent supporters. It seems to me that they are all about as in tune with their surroundings as Meghan McCain’s date. It sound’s like the guy was more ardent about Ron than he was about Meghan.
Comment by Peter C — January 15, 2008 @ 9:54 am
This truly sounds like a date from hell. I like political conversation as much as the next person (maybe even more than most), but an entire date? Especially with a guy who was nothing but a walking advertisement? Hopefully Meghan can find a more fun guy next time.
January 15th, 2008 at 10:09 amanother consequence of rushing to market…
Study: Vytorin same as generic at blocking cholesterol damage
The Wichita Eagle - 7 hours ago
BY THOMAS H. MAUGH II The heavily advertised drug Vytorin is no better than an inexpensive generic drug at blocking the damaging effects of high cholesterol levels, according to new data released by the drug’s manufacturers Monday.
Study: Cholesterol combination not superior to solo drug CBS 3
Trial fails to show drug can lower attacks, stroke Salt Lake Tribune
http://news.google.com/
i heard about this on the TODAY show this morning…
that report stated that, while the drugs (ZETIA and VITORIN) may lower cholesteral, they did NOT lessen the placque that builds up and may even make it WORSE…
we need a REAL FDA…
January 15th, 2008 at 10:10 amComment by good_golly
waiting for healtcare in canada…..
well gg, if as you say, good health care is readily availabe here then why have you not seen a doctor about your mental condition?
January 15th, 2008 at 10:10 ambilbo, why are you being such a jerk? Seriously, what did I ever do to you?
January 15th, 2008 at 10:10 amI work in the medical field. It doesn’t take logic to determine whether people go to ER’s for ridiculous reasons. It happens all the time.
57. Control the number of illegal aliens clogging up those emergency rooms and we’ll make some progress.
Comment by good_golly
nah, we just need some socialized medicine. It’s coming and you will like it. It will even cover your mental illness.
January 15th, 2008 at 10:12 am“intensive personal diplomacy” is a euphamism for the kind of contact that Bush excels in. It doesn’t require him to think or talk but does require volumes of lubricant and hand towels for the aftermath. Hope the bidet works George.
January 15th, 2008 at 10:13 amWith “just 32 percent of Americans†now approving of the way he is handling his job,
Er, correction please, latest poll…
CBS/New York Times 1/9-12/08 percentages
January 15th, 2008 at 10:15 amApprove ……29
Disapprove .62
Duh? ………….9
66 We’re not going there with you gg. We don’t care what you have decided for us any more. We will take it from here. Hang on for the ride.
January 15th, 2008 at 10:16 amFred
January 15th, 2008 at 10:16 amSeems there are a lot of crotchety people on here today!
Perhaps I was venting.
ERs will always be the first line against injuries, whether major or minor. That’s a fact. There will always be people who overinflate the seriousness of their injuries in their heads (not being doctors, that’s not completely unreasonable), so going to the ER instead of waiting for an appointment next week with their physician makes sense to them.
That’s what I’m getting at.
I apologize for the apparently less than reasonable post.
Thanks for the link alpuz3.
This data-mining business sucks. I want to be able to use Google without fear of reprisal.
My favorite comment attached to the article:
‘Note that Mike McConnell has a long history in the data-mining business and in contracting out intelligence to the private sector. He is a former executive of Booz Allen Hamilton, which has been involved in data-mining contracts for the government. Here is one link:
http://www.democracynow.org/ 2007/ 1/ 12/ mike_mcconnell_booz_allen_and_the
Remember Total Information Awareness, anyone?
McConnell wouldn’t be steering lucrative contracts to his old buddies at Booz Allen Hamilton, would he? Nah. Of course not. How cynical of us. Surely the Bush Administration wouldn’t do business that way.
No, we are not living in the world of “Nineteen Eighty-four.” McConnell and the national security/corporatist surveillance state have already taken us way beyond Orwell’s wildest imaginings.’
January 15th, 2008 at 10:16 amAll is not rosy in Canadian health care.
Comment by good_golly
but all is well in American health care……please get some help for your mental condition.
January 15th, 2008 at 10:18 amPresident Bush yesterday “launched a rare round of intensive personal diplomacy with Saudi King Abdullah aimed at …
Opening up the oil spigot…
To which Kingy replied, “Up yours”. OPEC will produce based on market forces.
Another in the long, long string of chympident failures.
January 15th, 2008 at 10:18 am70 that’s ok Wilco. We are just in trouble here in the US with our health care system and are looking for solutions. I’m sure some do go to the er when they don’t need to but some times scary things happen and that’s what the er is for isn’t it? It just shouldn’t cost your eveything to be ill.
January 15th, 2008 at 10:20 amvia C&L:
The Jimmy Carter Op-Ed piece at The Onion is satire. It is full of obscenities. It is not safe for work, and most of all it does not reflect in the least the dignity, intelligence, and morality of the 39th President of the United States.
i’m still smilin’…
January 15th, 2008 at 10:21 amControl the number of illegal aliens clogging up those emergency rooms and we’ll make some progress.
Comment by good_golly — January 15, 2008 @ 10:08 am
I assume you have some numbers regarding all these illegals “clogging” the emergency rooms? There are about 12 million undocumented residents living in the United States, a 2007 estimate. There were over 47 million uninsured AMERICANS in 2006, and that number has no doubt risen.
Assuming these two groups are getting sick at about the same rate, and even assuming that most of the undocumented are uninsured, it seems to me that there’s more “clogging” being done by our own. Yes, there are no doubt undocumented immigrants taking up space in our emergency rooms. But getting rid of them won’t solve the problem.
January 15th, 2008 at 10:23 amComment by Wilco — January 15, 2008 @ 10:16 am
Wilco, I fully agree with you on this. I had a friend who did his residency in at an ER in metro Atlanta. He noted 1/2 of the people in the ER were there to either try to get pain medication or to have him fill out the paperwork so they could claim disability. The people who complained about “pain” were the worst since non-specific reports of pain require the use of expensive diagnostics.
He is a liberal, but after awhile even he became frustrated at the fact that people were constantly trying to scam him.
January 15th, 2008 at 10:25 amHey Good Golly
We’re getting “socialist” medicine whether you like it or not, whether you call it communist or not. Your time is up. The era of only giving a crap about yourself and telling everyone to fend for themselves is OVER!
We don’t care if you don’t want universal healthcare - you’re getting it.
We don’t care if you don’t want international diplomacy - you’re getting it.
We don’t care if you don’t want action on global warming - you’re getting it.
We don’t care if you don’t want us to leave Iraq - you’re getting it.
Your ideology has failed miserably. You are but a 30% minority now and with time and effort the government will begin to reflect that. You will be powerless to stop us and you will be irrelevant.
We WOULD care about what you have to say but you and your rightwing have acted so shamefully and selfishly that you will now have to sit there and watch as we lead this country into the future as you STFU.
These issues are not conspiracies. It’s called business.
January 15th, 2008 at 10:26 amFred, part of the problem is that ER care is of course more expensive than going to your own doctor. It costs often upwards of $400 just to step foot in an ER. So going there instead of your own physician is a costly decision.
January 15th, 2008 at 10:29 amYes, medical care costs too much. But I think it would be easier on people if they were better educated in managing their own health care (as in, when to go to ER instead of physician, what charity or assistance programs are offered, etc.).
But again, universal care who render this pointless. But that seems unlikely to happen any time soon.
“In 2005, 2.8 million Canadian adults said that they had visited a specialist for a new illness or condition. Half reported waiting four weeks or less, but some had much longer or shorter waits. Eighty-eight percent said that their visit took place within three months.â€
I’m wondering what, exactly gg’s point was with this quote. Because the doctor I wanted didn’t take new patients, so I go to the second-best doctor I could find and guess what? Three months before I could get an appointment! AND I have to pay premiums and co-pays. That was because my health plan dropped my original doctor whom I loved.
I was talking to someone from Canada about health care recently and she said, “Oh my monthly premium just went up to eight sixty-four!” So I say, “$864 a month?” and she replied, “No - $8.64″. She didn’t understand why I was laughing so hard.
January 15th, 2008 at 10:31 amHe is a liberal, but after awhile even he became frustrated at the fact that people were constantly trying to scam him.
Comment by dim wit
same logic to deny health care that the repubs have used for years to deny welfare……there are a few abusing it so instead of doing the work required to catch the crooks….lets just deny everyone…..
January 15th, 2008 at 10:31 amYes, medical care costs too much. But I think it would be easier on people if they were better educated in managing their own health care (as in, when to go to ER instead of physician, what charity or assistance programs are offered, etc.).
But again, universal care who render this pointless. But that seems unlikely to happen any time soon.
Comment by Wilco
yeah, that’s a good idea. Let’s make it complicated so some will be left out…like we are doing with our social security system…..that will lower costs for the rest of us.
January 15th, 2008 at 10:36 amimagine that…
Cloned Animals May Be Used for Food in U.S., FDA Says (Update4)
By Catherine Larkin
Jan. 15 (Bloomberg) — Cloned cows, pigs and goats and their offspring are safe to enter the U.S. food supply, regulators found amid criticism from lawmakers, consumer groups and worried eaters.
The Food and Drug Administration posted a summary of a final report backing the use of cloned food on its Web site today after a seven-year review. The agency hasn’t recommended any special labeling for such products, and the report did not say whether this means a voluntary moratorium on sales, agreed to by the industry in 2001, is lifted.
[…]
http://www.bloomberg.com/ apps/ news?pid=20601087&sid=a1wQUkg_c3c8&refer=home
the LEAST they could do is LABEL IT.
January 15th, 2008 at 10:36 amHere’s something you missed:
January 15th, 2008 at 10:37 amKucinich ain’t crazy
82 Comment by mary
that’s all I hear from folks abroad too. They think we are fools…which we are if we continue to support what is going on here with our health care.
I want single payer like Cheney…..
started by the Calif. Nurses Assoc. CheneyCare
January 15th, 2008 at 10:39 am“March 7, 2006—Much of the attention on waiting for health care focuses on surgical and diagnostic imaging wait lists. New data show that, at least in some cases, waiting to see a specialist also makes up a significant proportion of the overall waiting period for care. For example, in the case of hip and knee replacement patients, nearly one-third of the time between referral to a specialist and surgery was spent waiting for an initial visit to the orthopedic surgeon.”
And I spent three months hobbling around on a torn meniscus before the insurance decided to pay for it, and allow me to have surgery.
Three months.
From my perspective, Canada’s system couldn’t be much worse than ours.
January 15th, 2008 at 10:39 amkaty ~ exactly. They require genetically modified food to be labeled, what’s NOT genetically modified about clones?
January 15th, 2008 at 10:40 ammy link didn’t work:
We all deserve Cheney Care
January 15th, 2008 at 10:40 amThe illegal aliens tend to use the emergency room as their primary care. Thus, controlling the illegal alien problem will help control the emergency room wait time problem.
Comment by good_golly — January 15, 2008 @ 10:30 am
Um…the uninsured Americans use the emergency room as THEIR primary care, too — for the same reason. That was my point. And there are a lot more of them than there are illegals.
Yes, getting rid of the illegals would make a dent in the problem. Any ideas on how to get that done? I realize that’s a whole ‘nother thread topic, but the truth is that big business LIKES having cheap labor available, so they’re going to be sticking around. We will have to live with that until somebody in charge truly wants to get serious about it instead of just making some noise once in awhile.
Back on topic…
Since there are a lot more uninsured Americans than there are uninsured non-Americans, it would seem logical to attack that problem first, since getting rid of those would make even more progress toward solving overcrowding.
January 15th, 2008 at 10:40 amsame logic to deny health care that the repubs have used for years to deny welfare……there are a few abusing it so instead of doing the work required to catch the crooks….lets just deny everyone…..
Comment by Fred — January 15, 2008 @ 10:31 am
I’m not trying to make an argument to deny it to anyone. I think Universal healthcare has more benefits than not.
However, the original post noted: “Patients are waiting longer for care in the nation’s emergency rooms,” which was the issue I was adressing.
As far as I’m concerned, I’d rather wait a longer time in the ER to obtain treatment than to not have an ER to go to at all. And I am unsure if you are familiar with the concept of “triage,” but I can assure you, if you go to the ER with an actual, life threatening injury (as opposed to going to the ER because you have the flu), you will be seen immediately.
January 15th, 2008 at 10:41 amanother “imagine that” and a “whodduthunkit”:
• Design Flaw Said to Have Caused Minn. Bridge to Collapse
Washington Post - 1 hour ago
By Del Quentin Wilber and Michael Laris A design flaw caused a Minnesota bridge to collapse last summer, killing 13 people and injuring 100 in an accident that focused renewed attention on the safety of the nation’s highways and bridges, according to …
Investigations Conclude: Bridge Collapsed Due To Design Flaws eFluxMedia
Design flaw blamed in 35W collapse Pioneer Press
how long did that bridge stand?
January 15th, 2008 at 10:42 ami haven’t read the articles… just hope there’s a mention of LACK OF MAINTENANCE FUNDS in there somewhere…
gg trying to convince us that US health care is the best in the world is like the old time farmers….you know the ones that caused the dustbowl…trying to tell us that we don’t need to change the way we do things……..
January 15th, 2008 at 10:43 amjust hope there’s a mention of LACK OF MAINTENANCE FUNDS in there somewhere
Very sorry, katy, but those maintenance funds were spent on Blackwater and arming the Sunni Awakening councils.
January 15th, 2008 at 10:44 amNo. 17, bilbobaggins:
My guess is that The House Intelligence Committee has postponed his
January 15th, 2008 at 10:45 amtestimony so there is more time to effectively sweep this under the rug.
Bottom line: the whole MF is probably propaganda.
They very likely paid this dude to act like a whistle-blower while at the
same time preparing his testimony such that no one will be held
accountable.
Fred, who pissed in your Cheerios?
January 15th, 2008 at 10:46 amI’m not advocating making things difficult. Things are as they are. That’s the reality of it.
Why is better education not a good thing in this situation? How exactly is providing more information difficult for people?
Yes, universal health care would simplify things. But for the here and now, there are some solutions for some people that most people have no clue about, which would improve the state of health care and medical debts for a lot of people.
I know you’re not against alleviating debt for the poor, but yet you get sarcastic with me about it!
Most proposals from democratic contenders avoid universal care, and instead focus on increased insurance coverage.
So more people will have insurance, but costs will still be high.
if you go to the ER with an actual, life threatening injury (as opposed to going to the ER because you have the flu), you will be seen immediately.
Comment by dim wit
Wilco’s helpful tip # 57:
To get quicker attention when in an emergency room, there are two magical words: chest pain
January 15th, 2008 at 10:50 amIsraeli forces kill 15 Palestinians in Gaza
Reuters - 3 hours ago
By Nidal al-Mughrabi GAZA, Jan 15 (Reuters) - Israel killed 15 Palestinians, nearly all of them militants, in the Gaza Strip on Tuesday, dealing its deadliest blow to Hamas in more than a year in raids that followed a peace mission by US President …
yea, THAT worked out well…
January 15th, 2008 at 10:52 amAll is not rosy in Canadian health care.
Comment by good_golly — January 15, 2008 @ 10:16 am
I don’t recall anybody here (or anywhere else, for that matter) claiming that the Canadian health care delivery system is a perfect system. Look hard enough and you will some negatives in any system.
It has been a favorite technique for the nay-sayers to look at the universal health care systems in other countries, nitpick through them to find whatever flaws they can find, and then use this as “evidence” that we should keep the system we have.
Yes, with a universal health care system, I might have to wait a few months for elective surgery. Maybe. Without any insurance, I would be waiting forever. It’s not hard for me to see what would be the most beneficial.
January 15th, 2008 at 10:55 amYes, with a universal health care system, I might have to wait a few months for elective surgery. Maybe. Without any insurance, I would be waiting forever. It’s not hard for me to see what would be the most beneficial.
Comment by missmolly — January 15, 2008 @ 10:55 am
Some healthcare is better than no healthcare.
Once we get everyone some healthcare, we can work to make it better for everyone.
January 15th, 2008 at 11:00 amOff the cheers and jeers at kos this AM:
According to a new Harris Interactive survey—as reported on The McLaughlin Group Sunday—Bush’s approval rating is 8 percent in Italy, 7 percent in Britain, 7 percent in Spain, 5 percent in Germany and 3 percent in France.
What the hell’s wrong with our 29%ers?
January 15th, 2008 at 11:00 amRU - they don’t know what the europeans know…
and the denial thing… it’s hard to admit you’ve been duped…
January 15th, 2008 at 11:03 amFred, who pissed in your Cheerios?
I’m not advocating making things difficult. Things are as they are. That’s the reality of it.
Why is better education not a good thing in this situation? How exactly is providing more information difficult for people?
Comment by Wilco
I’m sorry wilco but I don’t see how making people jump even more hoops and do more research etc. is going to make things better. I have just watched the repubs fix it where our older Americans must now wade through a sea of nonsense to select a provider for supplemental health care. Most of these people grew up in the 40’s and 50’s and to make them jump hoops is inhumane……..same with health insurance for sick poor people….
making it tougher for them is not the answer…….making it easier for them is the answer.
January 15th, 2008 at 11:04 amFirst of all, the number that will “abuse” the system for “a cough, sneeze and a fart” is extremely low - especially when you compare to those that have not choice now.
Even if I take you at your word that there will be wide spread abuse of the system, at least doctors would get paid AND those that abuse the system will be sharing in the burden (through their taxes and their company paying). The overall cost will be less in addition to the cost burden spread to more than just the lucky insured people.
January 15th, 2008 at 11:10 amWhat the hell’s wrong with our 29%ers?
It’s simple. The American Empire is falling and their blinding arrogance prevents them from assessing the situation and responding. They cannot accept that we are no longer the best, the richest, the coolest. There are lists upon lists in which we are not even top 10 in education, human rights and freedom of speech. Just look at healthcare - they have an absolute heart attack when you argue that we do not have the best system in the world. The very idea that we are not #1 at anything is unacceptable.
They are incapable of rational and critical thinking and it is why they are being rejected. People seem to forget but 70% majorities in this country are almost unprecedented. It’s just that their corporate masters control the media and prevent them from seeing reality while reinforcing and encouraging their patriotic ignorance.
January 15th, 2008 at 11:11 amCiti News Shakes the Street
January 15th, 2008 at 11:12 amBusinessWeek - 43 minutes ago
The wait is over. After weeks of speculation about the depth of its subprime mortgage losses, Citigroup (C) reported a record fourth quarter loss Tuesday morning.
Citigroup Posts Staggering Loss, Cuts Dividend Forbes
Citigroup Posts $9.83 Billion Loss and Will Cut Jobs New York Times
105 gg……that’s like your trickle down economy that is a failure…
the adults will take it from here.
January 15th, 2008 at 11:14 amgg you can’t just spout numbers…….god you are such a child. Maybe that’s the problem….you really are a child…..that explains it.
January 15th, 2008 at 11:16 amThe way to get more people insured is to make health insurance and health care more affordable. Two of the best ways to do this are: (1) make insurance more affordable by controlling the trial lawyers through tort reform; and (2) make health care more affordable by getting the illegal aliens out of this country and keeping them out. Every time an illegal alien gets free healthcare, it drives up the price for those of us that pay.
Comment by good_golly
Point 1: Studies have shown that so-called “tort reform” is all about limiting patients rights, not reducing the cost of healthcare. I’ve read of studies that conclude the largest majority of tort lawsuits are companies suing other companies.
Point 2: If you push all “illegal” immigrants out of the country, the prices for all goods and services will rise, making the savings to a small portion of the populace (the sick and injured) easily outweighed by the cost in all, repeat, all goods and services to us all. That’s cutting-your-nose-off-to-spite-your-face type thinking.
January 15th, 2008 at 11:17 amYeah, but it is better than ZERO. Good way to side step the issue. I work for a medical billing firm. Doctors like Medicare because they get paid quick. Better than having no insurance. Besides the “regular rates” are inflated to make up for the people who can’t pay. Also, the “regular” rate is WAAAAAY inflated because each insurance company pays differently so they bump up the rates to ensure that they get the most money every insurance company is willing to pay.
Good try ignoring the real issues though.
January 15th, 2008 at 11:18 amThank you barfly.
January 15th, 2008 at 11:19 amHere’s an excerpt from the article on the Boosh’s failure in SA.
“High energy prices can damage consuming economies,†the president told a small group of reporters traveling with him in the Mideast.
“It’s affected our families. Paying more for gasoline hurts some of the American families, and I’ll make that clear to him,†said Bush, heading into more talks with Saudi King Abdullah. Shortly after Bush spoke, the Saudi oil minister said the kingdom, responsible for almost one-third of the cartel’s total output, would raise oil production when the market justified it.
“Some of the American families” is right. All of them except the uber-riche.
January 15th, 2008 at 11:19 amThen a hearty Up Yours, from our buddy Abdullah the wit.
I don’t understand why you guys are acknowledging gg’s repub talking points. They have been in office for 8 years and in complete control of the white house and both houses of congress for all but the last 2 of those years and they have screwed it up. Yet they still want to give advice…….
January 15th, 2008 at 11:21 amYou’re welcome, Mary.
January 15th, 2008 at 11:22 amFred, isn’t your study hall almost over? Time to get dressed for gym.
Comment by good_golly
ha ha……..gg is losing it completly. Get some help for that mental disorder asap.
January 15th, 2008 at 11:23 amTo follow up: when I say a rise in the cost of all goods and services, that includes healthcare.
January 15th, 2008 at 11:25 am121
point 1. If doctors didn’t screw people up and cover it up this would be a non issue….you have a problem with justice.
point 2. You are an inhuman……I’m gonna say it cause you love to hear it or you wouldn’t come back…..Nazi.
January 15th, 2008 at 11:28 amTwo of the best ways to do this are: (1) make insurance more affordable by controlling the trial lawyers through tort reform; and (2) make health care more affordable by getting the illegal aliens out of this country and keeping them out. Every time an illegal alien gets free healthcare, it drives up the price for those of us that pay.
Comment by good_golly — January 15, 2008 @ 11:08 am
And every time an uninsured American gets free healthcare it drives up the price for those of us that pay. Why do you keep focusing on the smaller problems at the edges and insist on ignoring the elephant in the middle of the room?
January 15th, 2008 at 11:32 amGood Golly is wrong on such a monumental scale.
Read and learn gg: http://www.iii.org/ media/ hottopics/ insurance/ medicalmal/
January 15th, 2008 at 11:38 amPoint 2. If we drive out the illegal aliens, costs for certain goods (e.g. strawberries, tomatoes, potatoes) may go up, but once those jobs are manned by legal workers making more money, those workers will have more money to spend and help drive the economy. It is like a macro version of Henry Ford wanting to make sure his workers earned enough money to buy one of his Model-T cars.
You’ve obviously never been to Los Angeles. I work in manufacturing, and we currently import manufacturing workers on Bh1b visas because we can’t find enough capable help. To suggest that taking about 30% of “illegals” out of the work force (including those using fraudulent id, and working in higher-paying positions, like nurse-assistants) is ludicrous. Manufacturing would shut down. These are non-union jobs we’re talking about. The Detroit workers wouldn’t work for these wages.
And you think businesses will just jack up their prices to pay for higher-paid workers? Aren’t you proving my point?
January 15th, 2008 at 11:39 amI know of a fool proof way for the Nazi Chimp’s approval ratings to go up : stage another false flag incident and blame it on Iran.
I’m sure Darth Cheney is working overtime on this right now.
January 15th, 2008 at 11:40 ambarfly, I used to be warehouse manager (receiving clerk and qc) at a small nut roasting and dried fruit cold storage facility off Alameda street.
I was the only employee in the building who:
a. could speak english
b. was in the country legally.
I only stayed about four months before it wore me out. This was 27 years ago… I’m sure it hasn’t gotten any better.
January 15th, 2008 at 11:46 amYeah, Barfly. I had a response all typed out for that post, too.
GG missed the food service industry, construction, landscaping, and on and on…
It really did display just how out of touch it is. I wonder if it goes out to eat?
Does it spew this particular opinion at the table before its food is served?
If I was it, I wouldn’t order the soup…
January 15th, 2008 at 11:47 am#125 - “I apologize for offending you by offering a dissenting viewpoint. I should have realized that “progressives’ don’t like diversity in thinking.” Comment by good_golly — January 15, 2008 @ 11:35 am
Wow! Sounds like G_G is talking about most of the right-whiner websites! Even suggesting that Redstate doesn’t allow “dssenting viewpoints”would be enough to be banned for life!
Interesting that G_G doesn’t recognize that his posts are still here, while right-whiner websites remove anything that doesn’t ape the approved party line and talking points.
Personally, I’m glad that he’s here voicing his opinion. I don’t agree with him very often, but occasionally he makes a point with which I agree.
Something I find very interesting is that many people on both sides know far too little of the thinking of those with whom they disagree, and dismiss them much too quickly and easily wihtout attempting to understand their perspective.
Of course, I believe that those of us to the left of center (or left of the average right-whiners) tend to do more reading/understanding of the opposition than they do of us. Does anyone disagree with my personal assertion?
January 15th, 2008 at 11:55 amgg always runs when the truth starts flying……too much heat.
January 15th, 2008 at 11:55 amIt’s a pity good_golly left — I was just starting to have fun with him. Although maybe it’s for the best. I was about to post all my links to evidence that the “medical malpractice is responsible for skyrocketing health care costs” canard is a myth perpetuated by Republicans like GG, and ask him how he wanted to pay the estimated $230 billion dollars to round up and deport all the illegal Mexicans living and working here. Instead we can focus on the ThinkFast topics TP provided.
January 15th, 2008 at 12:04 pmHere’s one.
Why does the Michigan Primary have Hillary/ Not Hillary on its ballot???
January 15th, 2008 at 12:39 pmComment by good_golly — January 15, 2008 @ 11:08 am
If we had national healthcare you’d be locked up for being too stupid to look out for yourself. Lawsuits and illegal aliens are the problems with our healthcare system? You really believe this because Rush Limbaugh tells you it’s so. People as dumb as you are what’s wrong with this country.
January 15th, 2008 at 12:42 pmThose doctors willing to work at a 70%-75% government discount would get paid. Others would go a different direction.
Comment by good_golly — January 15, 2008 @ 11:14
You don’t even know that every HMO and PPO pays doctors at these reduced rates. Why don’t you find a topic you have SOME knowledge on and annoy people over there.
And I’d bet you are 23 years old and don’t have healthcare coverage making you one of the problems with healthcare in America.
January 15th, 2008 at 12:44 pmRUC, the dems are protesting the primary and so aren’t participating and MI will have no delegates. I don’t know why Hillary’s name is on there, though. Maybe she filed before the brouhaha began.
January 15th, 2008 at 12:49 pmMALPRACTICE lawsuits by predator trial lawyers happy to take 33% to 40% “for the people†are what is driving up the cost of MEDICAL MALPRACTICE insurance. - gg
Executing a malpractice case costs the attorney approximate $40,000 upfront. It is extremely hard to get one of these attorneys to take a case because they don’t get that money back if they don’t win. Most cases of of negligence by doctors are never started for this reason.
January 15th, 2008 at 12:49 pmKarmic justice will be when a doctor messes up on somebody you love and you try to find an attorney to take the case. Then you’ll realize what an ass you’ve been.
I wouldn’t make a comparison between Bush and Hitler amongst polite company. It denegrates what happened in the 40’s, and gives Bush way to much credit…he only wishes he could be like Hitler who damn near had the world under his thumb.
However, to piss off a troll, comparisons between Bush and Hitler are fun. You see, there are similarities, both circumstantial (they wish to take control of their respective countries by stirring up fear) and historical (we all know about the Bush ties with the Nazi regime of Germany in the late 30’s…).
Now, I’d never go into a conservative Blog spewing such tripe as Bush is Hitler. Unlike you, trolls, I don’t believe in going over to someone elses territory and disrupting their discussion. However, it’s funny watching you get so bent out of shape at us comparing your boy king Bush to Hitler, and yet you see absolutely nothing wrong with comparing our candidates to radical Islamists, Socialists, Communists, and calling us traitors.
January 15th, 2008 at 12:49 pmFound a great article in the Seattle PI today on Wounded Warriors
January 15th, 2008 at 12:52 pmThanks Wilco, I knew something wierd was up…
January 15th, 2008 at 12:52 pm#135 - “Why does the Michigan Primary have Hillary/ Not Hillary on its ballot???” Comment by RUCerious — January 15, 2008 @ 12:39 pm
They’re going to have multiple choices:
Sen. Clinton, Rep. Dennis Kucinich (OH), former Alaska Gov. Mike Gravel and Sen. Christopher Dodd (CT) (Who has since dropped out).
Michigan purposefully flouted the rules by scheduling their primary/caucus prior to “Super Tuesday,” and they were punished by having their delegates votes stripped from them. They knew what the consequences of their action would be, and the did it anyway. At least they’re taking responsibility for their actions.
Sen. Clinton, Sen Obama and Sen. Edwards all have refused to campaign in the state, but Sen. Clinton left her name of the ballot, while Sen. Obama & Sen. Edwards removed theirs.
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/ the-trail/ 2008/ 01/ 09/ voters_face_confusion_in_michi.html
January 15th, 2008 at 12:54 pmRUC, no problem. I thought I heard the Kooch was on there too.
January 15th, 2008 at 12:55 pmAlso, any write-ins are apparently disregarded completely.
How this will help them in Nov is beyond me. They’re doing this in Florida, too!
So they’re disenfranchising two entire states! And Fla is a swing state, too.
Just think of all the left of center dems and independents who may well vote for a Rep because of this slight.
I understand why they’re doing it, but I don’t think it’s too wise, especially this election.
Comment by Democrat Soldier
So Clinton wants to have her proverbial cake and smear it on the faces of her rivals, too?
January 15th, 2008 at 12:56 pmWilco, now it comes back. Everybody was certain that MI and FL would change their voting dates!.
They’ll probably try to get a court order to get their delegates seated at the convention,….
January 15th, 2008 at 12:58 pmThanks Dem Soldier. Methinks I keep having these senior lapses…
January 15th, 2008 at 12:59 pmRUC, I remember there were talks of that, but I don’t know if suit was ever filed. I can’t imagine it would get too far. The national party heads are in charge of the convention. The state heads are in charge of their individual primaries. The state party heads have no power over what the DNC does with the convention. It’s their party and they’ll disenfranchise if they want to.
January 15th, 2008 at 1:03 pm#145 - “So Clinton wants to have her proverbial cake and smear it on the faces of her rivals, too?” Comment by Wilco — January 15, 2008 @ 12:56 pm
Most probably. Although, your use of “smear it on the faces of her rivals” proves your bias against Sen. Clinton.
Here’s a hypothetical question for you:
It’s November 4th, and you’re in the voting booth. Who would you choose between Clinton and Huckabee?
January 15th, 2008 at 1:06 pmAnd today’s candidate for the Darwin award
January 15th, 2008 at 1:08 pmDemocrat Soldier, I would rather have Obama or Edwards over Clinton, yes.
January 15th, 2008 at 1:08 pmBut Huckabee hates the Constitution and believes we should all be forced to abide by his god’s laws instead of our country’s.
Wilco, the suit wouldn’t be filed until the 11th hour…as I recall…
January 15th, 2008 at 1:09 pmWilco, you would cry too, if it happened to you!
January 15th, 2008 at 1:09 pmRUC, I’d say the 11th hour has now passed.
January 15th, 2008 at 1:10 pmAny verdict in MI’s favor would hand a sizable victory to Clinton at this point since residents can’t vote for Obama or Edwards.
Wilco, I was talking about the 11th hour before the convention…
January 15th, 2008 at 1:11 pmBush Presses Saudi Arabia Over Oil Prices
Link.
President Bush urged OPEC nations on Tuesday to put more oil on the world market and warned that soaring prices could cause an economic slowdown in the United States.
What was it that Bush previously said about letting the market control prices??
“High energy prices can damage consuming economies,” the president told a small group of reporters traveling with him in the Mideast.
O. Bigfoot told me the other day not to worry.
January 15th, 2008 at 1:12 pmI think it’s funny, though, because the last poll I saw only had Clinton at 54%. You’d think without her main competitors, she’d do a lot better. SHows what high negatives can do.
January 15th, 2008 at 1:12 pmRUC, I understood that, but I doubt it would fly. Again, you’d hand Clinton every last delegate.
January 15th, 2008 at 1:14 pm#157 - Actually, the last poll I saw for Michigan show Sen. Clinton with 49% to Sen. Obama’s 18% to Sen. Edwards 15%.
Just because all names are not on the ballot doesn’t mean people can’t say they’re for who they want!
The polls from after November only show Republican names.
http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Data/Polls.html
January 15th, 2008 at 1:21 pmThe poll I saw gave the ballot choices. I wish I remembered who it was thru.
January 15th, 2008 at 1:26 pm#161 - “There was a lawsuit, Wilco. Senator Nelson lost the lawsuit, and Florida Democrats remain disenfranchised.” Comment by good_golly — January 15, 2008 @ 2:24 pm
And all they would have to do to correct this would be to change their primary to Super Tuesday. They refuse to do so. They are digging their own hole and complaining about it.
Souds very. . . . Republican. ;-)
January 16th, 2008 at 7:21 am