Wexler: Cheney impeachment ‘far stronger than Watergate.’
Wexler: Cheney impeachment ‘far stronger than Watergate.’
Last night, Rep. Robert Wexler (D-FL) took to the House floor to urge the House Judiciary Committee to begin impeachment hearings into Vice President Cheney for “high crimes and misdemeanors.” Wexler, who has already acquired nearly 190,000 supporters through his website, explained his next steps:
Tomorrow, I will deliver these names to my colleagues on the Judiciary Committee with a letter to my friend, Chairman Conyers, calling for hearings. I will ask my colleagues to sign this letter … Continuing every day for months, I will publish in the Congressional Record several thousand names of supporters who signed up.
History demands that we take action, because the case against Vice President Cheney is far stronger than the illegality surrounding Watergate.
Watch Wexler’s speech:
“In the history of our nation, we have never encountered a moment where the actions of a President or a Vice President have more strongly demanded the use of the power of impeachment,” Wexler said last night.
Topic Cloud
ArchivesBlog Roll
but, but
Clinton got a blow job!
January 16th, 2008 at 12:12 pmIf it can just get on the record that cheney was impeached I could care less if bush lets him off. It certainly won’t have any impact on cheney’s money or power or friends. But just nice to think the people still have a say in our government.
January 16th, 2008 at 12:13 pmWow, I guess the racist / sexist fight between Hill’reh and Obama has really hurt the Dems chances of winning in 2008, so you are diving back into old tactics from the 2006 election. Couple this with CNN begging Bloomberg to get into the race, and you know the Dems are panicked.
January 16th, 2008 at 12:15 pmSecond thought, over 100 congressmen on both sides of aisle signed a petition to pardon two Border Agents and the petition got nowhere…..so cheney’s impeachment will gain traction ?
January 16th, 2008 at 12:16 pmDim wit, I know you were making fun of the hypocritical right-wing with your “Clinton got a blow job” comment, but there’s a little bt of uncomfortable truth in it.
In order for impeachment to be a viable option, there has to be some way to sell it to those who are unconvinced. The high crimes that Cheney has committed are not an easy sell, because most of them are rather esoteric. The ones that SHOULD be easy sells, like outing a covert CIA agent during wartime, have been effectively muddied by the administration muddiers and their allies in the media.
Clinton getting a hummer was, to tighty-righties at least, political gold. Easy to understand, easy target for ridicule. Not much of a “high crime”, but that didn’t matter to the asshats in the Republican Congress.
January 16th, 2008 at 12:20 pm“Wexler, who has already acquired nearly 190,000 supporters through his website”
Awesome! He has vaulted past a tenth of a half of a percent of the population clamoring for this move! Only 110,000 more signatures to go and his action will have the formal support of an ENTIRE one tenth of one percent!
Or maybe he could take a reality pill and let it drop.
January 16th, 2008 at 12:23 pmIt has suddenly occured to me that Republicans cry about consenual sex is just jealousy. Seriously tho, Clinton was an idiot, if he had just confessed and cried it would have saved the taxpayer $7,000,000 and maybe Gore would have been President.
January 16th, 2008 at 12:23 pmGuillotine! Guillotine! Guillotine! for Bush/Cheney. sarc OFF.
January 16th, 2008 at 12:23 pmmy fantasy…
scene: fade-in to white house conference room where george bush, dick cheney, and their senior staff aides are seated along one side of the table… across from them are seated select senior members of congress, the military, and the judiciary, who have jointly requested the meeting…
congressional spokesperson: thank you, mr. president for agreeing to meet with us and for gathering your senior officials on such short notice… let me get right to the point… we are here to demand your resignation and that of the key members of your administration… we are doing this under the full authority of the united states constitution… the supreme court has affirmed that we have this authority, and the joint chiefs of staff have agreed to provide us with the full backing of the united states military… our intent is not a takeover, but rather to restore the rule of law, adherence to the constitution with its mandated balance of powers, and the responsibility for accountability and oversight that the constitution has vested in congress… a caretaker administration has been appointed and is waiting to assume the day-to-day functions of running the government until such time as national elections can be scheduled, no later than six months from today… should you choose not to comply with this request, mr. president, the joint chiefs of staff have authorized the senior military provost marshall to detain you and your officials so that the caretaker government can be installed…
hey…! it’s MY fantasy, and i’m stickin’ to it…
just for fun, besides george and dick, who else would you want seated at the table…?
And, yes, I DO take it personally
January 16th, 2008 at 12:25 pmI like Wexler, he should take nancys place…put and KEEP it ON the table.
January 16th, 2008 at 12:25 pmWait just a minute didn’t an similiar petition happen a month ago? How many signatures did that one get ?
January 16th, 2008 at 12:25 pmKeltoi, stranger things have happened.
Texaslady – Bush could not pardon Cheney in the case of an impeachment.
WHAT THE CONSTITUTION SAYS ABOUT PARDONS
Article 2, Section 3, Clause 1:
“The President…shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.”
January 16th, 2008 at 12:27 pm#6 – i didnt know every single man woman and child in america had a computer and the internet….
January 16th, 2008 at 12:27 pmClinton getting a hummer was, to tighty-righties at least, political gold. Easy to understand, easy target for ridicule. Not much of a “high crimeâ€, but that didn’t matter to the asshats in the Republican Congress.
Comment by ralph the wonder llama — January 16, 2008 @ 12:20 pm
Cheney could rape and murder a hooker on the White House lawn and the dems still wouldn’t be able to impeach him.
The Repubs would simply say Cheney was being “tough on crime”
January 16th, 2008 at 12:30 pm“Wexler, who has already acquired nearly 190,000 supporters through his websiteâ€
Awesome! He has vaulted past a tenth of a half of a percent of the population clamoring for this move! Only 110,000 more signatures to go and his action will have the formal support of an ENTIRE one tenth of one percent!
Or maybe he could take a reality pill and let it drop.
Comment by Keltoi
good to hear you wingers saying that we shouldn’t be doing things because of poll numbers or the likes……we just want it done because it’s the right thing to do…..
January 16th, 2008 at 12:33 pmWhat a joke. There are no controls. I tried it out myself and signed up as “Fred Flintstone†and as soon as I hit “send,†the ticker went up by 1.
Comment by good_golly
must be run by diebold…
January 16th, 2008 at 12:34 pmNumbers are meaningless to this Congress. We already know that because they continue to kiss the backside of a President with the lowest approval ratings in history.
Now, if we could somehow go to a congresscritter and say, hey there, we have 22,000 registered voters from your district who are saying that impeachment proceedings for Cheney should start… THEN we’d have action.
January 16th, 2008 at 12:36 pmThis is truly scary. I signed that petition, but no one said anything to me about it being published.
Rep. Wexler’s got the spotlight, so he will have his credibility shredded. I am just a signer… in the shadows.
I don’t want to be hauled off to Gitmo for waterboarding!
If Wexler had told me he’d use my name in his push, I would have never signed that thing.
January 16th, 2008 at 12:36 pmConspiracy to Defraud the United States
923 18 U.S.C. § 371
Hass, 216 U.S. at 479-480. In Hammerschmidt, Chief Justice Taft, defined “defraud†as follows:
To conspire to defraud the United States means primarily to cheat the Government out of property or money, but it also means to interfere with or obstruct one of its lawful governmental functions by deceit, craft or trickery, or at least by means that are dishonest. It is not necessary that the Government shall be subjected to property or pecuniary loss by the fraud, but only that its legitimate official action and purpose shall be defeated by misrepresentation, chicane or the overreaching of those charged with carrying out the governmental intention.
http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/eousa/foia_reading_room/usam/title9/crm00923.htm
January 16th, 2008 at 12:37 pmMerger with Halliburton
In 1998, Dresser merged with its main rival, Halliburton, and is now known as Halliburton Company. Dick Cheney negotiated the $7.7-billion deal, reportedly having done so during a weekend of quail-hunting. In 2001, Halliburton was forced to settle the asbestos lawsuits that it acquired as a result of purchasing Dresser, causing the company’s stock price to fall by eighty percent in just over a year.
The New Dresser
On 10 April 2001 the Dresser division (excluding the former Kellogg division) entered an agreement to separate itself once again from Halliburton by management purchasing its equity, the new company to be called Dresser, Inc.
The new Dresser is 90% owned by First Reserve Corporation (U.S. based investment firm). It is planning a new IPO for the summer of 2005.
Dresser, Inc. sells, services, and supports products that include: actuators, valves, meters, instruments, regulators, switches, natural gas fueled engines, piping specialties, retail fuel dispensers, blowers, and outdoor payment and point-of-sale systems.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dresser_Industries
Halliburton Iraq ties more than Cheney said
NewsMax Wires
Monday, June 25, 2001
UNITED NATIONS, June 23 (UPI) — Halliburton Co., the oil company that was headed by Vice President Dick Cheney, signed contracts with Iraq worth $73 million through two subsidiaries while he was at its helm, the Washington Post reported.
During last year’s presidential campaign, Cheney said Halliburton did business with Libya and Iran through foreign subsidiaries, but maintained he had imposed a “firm policy” against trading with Iraq.
“Iraq’s different,” the Post quoted him as saying.
Oil industry executives and confidential U.N. records showed, however, that Halliburton held stakes in two companies that signed contracts to sell more than $73 million in oil production equipment and spare parts to Iraq while Cheney was chairman and chief executive officer, the Post reported.
Two former senior executives of the Halliburton subsidiaries said they knew of no policy against dealing with Iraq. One of them said he was certain Cheney knew about the deals, though he had never spoken about them to the vice president directly.
If he “was ever in a conversation or meeting where there was a question of pursuing a project with someone in Iraq, he said, ‘No,’ ” Mary Matalin, Cheney’s counselor, said.
“In a joint venture, he would not have reviewed all their existing contracts,” Matalin told the Post. “The nature of those joint ventures was that they had a separate governing structure, so he had no control over them.”
The deal was legal, the Post said, and they showed how U.S. firms use foreign subsidiaries and joint ventures to avoid doing business with Baghdad. The practice is not a violation of U.S. law and falls within the U.N.-run oil-for-food program.
The Post said U.N. records showed that the dealings were more extensive than originally reported and than Cheney had acknowledged, however.
According to the report, the Halliburton subsidiaries, Dresser-Rand and Ingersoll Dresser Pump Co., sold material to Baghdad through French affiliates. The sales lasted from the first half of 1997 to the summer of 2000. Cheney resigned from Halliburton in August.
“Halliburton and Ingersoll-Rand, as far as I know, had no official policy about that, other than we would be in compliance with applicable U.S. and international laws,” said Cleive Dumas, who oversaw Ingersoll Dresser Pump’s business in the Middle East, including Iraq.
Cheney’s spokeswoman, Juleanna Glover Weiss, referred the Post’s calls to Halliburton, which in turn, directed them back to Cheney’s office.
In a July 30, 2000, interview on ABC-TV’s “This Week,” Cheney denied that Halliburton or its subsidiaries traded with Baghdad. Three weeks later, on the same program, he modified his response after being informed that a Halliburton spokesman had said that Dresser Rand and Ingersoll Dresser Pump traded with Iraq.
Cheney said he did not know the subsidiaries were doing business with the Iraqi regime when Halliburton purchased Dresser Industries in September 1998.
The firms traded with Iraq for more than a year under Cheney, however. They signed nearly $30 million in contracts before he sold Halliburton’s 49 percent stake in Ingersoll Dresser Pump Co. in December 1999 and its 51 percent interest in Dresser Rand to Ingersoll-Rand in February 2000, the Post quoted U.N. records as saying.
Cheney has long criticized of unilateral U.S. sanctions, which he says penalize American companies. He has pushed for a review of policy toward Iraq, Iran and Libya.
–
Copyright 2001 by United Press International.
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/6/24/80648.shtml
January 16th, 2008 at 12:38 pmThis is truly scary. I signed that petition, but no one said anything to me about it being published.
Rep. Wexler’s got the spotlight, so he will have his credibility shredded. I am just a signer… in the shadows.
I don’t want to be hauled off to Gitmo for waterboarding!
If Wexler had told me he’d use my name in his push, I would have never signed that thing.
Comment by MrBlueSky
They don’t need your name to know who you are…….nothing you do or say on the internet is anonymous…..what made you think that?
January 16th, 2008 at 12:39 pmMaybe the logic behind the petition is smarter than you think GG, judging from your posts here, you do appear a little Neanderthal.
January 16th, 2008 at 12:40 pmHalliburton’s receipt of all the no-bid contracts was direct quid pro quo – highly illegal.
When Cheney was the CEO, he acquired Dresser to save the Bush Family’s ass. Dresser made Asbestos, and the liability law suits were going to wipe them out. Cheney took one for the team when he acquired Dresser and all its asbestos liability claims (HAL was punished in the stock market)…the biggest of which was the WORLD TRADE CENTER, a $15 billion albatross that the Port Authority was hard pressed to get rid of.
When the Port Authority unloaded the buildings onto Silverstein, the fix was already in. Cheney literally ran the entire operation on 9/11 (as witnessed by Mineta) and used Dov Zakheim’s SYSPLAN technology to guide the CONVERTED FUEL TANKERS to their targets (remember the huge fireball that exploded OUTSIDE the building?).
It was Cheney who instructed Christine Todd Whitman to lie about the levels of asbestos at ground zero, because he didn’t want people to make the connection that the entire operation was simply arson on a grand scale, which eliminated a $15 billion liability from Halliburton’s books.
Need more evidence of the quid pro quo?
GW included the issue in his State of the Union speech in 2005.
“To make our economy stronger and more competitive, America must reward, not punish, the efforts and dreams of entrepreneurs. Small business is the path of advancement, especially for women and minorities, so we must free small businesses from needless regulation and protect honest job-creators from junk lawsuits. (Applause.) Justice is distorted, and our economy is held back by irresponsible class-actions and frivolous asbestos claims — and I urge Congress to pass legal reforms this year.”
January 16th, 2008 at 12:40 pmok plunger I get it…..you want the board to yourself…..bye.
January 16th, 2008 at 12:40 pmComment by good_golly
So lying is bad again today? Just let me know if that changes back again like it did yesterday.
January 16th, 2008 at 12:41 pmWait just a minute didn’t an similiar petition happen a month ago? How many signatures did that one get ?
Keltoi, stranger things have happened.
Comment by texaslady — January 16, 2008 @ 12:25 pm
I am pretty sure this is the same petition. It caught on quick, got 50,000 signatures in a day or two then stalled out.
January 16th, 2008 at 12:42 pmYep, same petition, this is from TP December 27. I haven’t heard of another petition.
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/12/27/141387/
January 16th, 2008 at 12:46 pmComment by good_golly — January 16, 2008 @ 12:26 pm
keep rubbing that magic lamp gg!
January 16th, 2008 at 12:47 pmBeen there, Signed it, Now what? More of our Elected Officials disregarding the crimes that Bush and Cheney have committed, I know that the Dems don’t have a super majority to carry thru Impeachment, but it is the Repukes that are tolerating the heinous crimes committed by Bush/Cheney. Hopefully the repukes will lose badly in the elections and we can then hold Bush/Cheney accountable for their crimes.
Bush/Cheney
Hague Trials ‘09
Buck Fush
January 16th, 2008 at 12:47 pmIMPEACH! IMPEACH!!! PLEASE… IMPEACH!!!!!!!!
January 16th, 2008 at 12:47 pm#6 – i didnt know every single man woman and child in america had a computer and the internet….
Comment by Fan of Man — January 16, 2008 @ 12:27 pm
…or had heard about Wexler’s petition. If he had gotten ANY publicity via the MSM, I’m sure the total would have been a great deal higher.
January 16th, 2008 at 12:49 pmIf Wexler had told me he’d use my name in his push, I would have never signed that thing.
Comment by MrBlueSky — January 16, 2008 @ 12:36 pm
Way to stand up for your convictions, kiddo!
January 16th, 2008 at 12:50 pmOnly 110,000 more signatures to go and his action will have the formal support of an ENTIRE one tenth of one percent!
Comment by Keltoi
I have one better!
Let’s invade a country on the basis of ZERO WMDs!!!
January 16th, 2008 at 12:51 pmWexler/Feingold ‘12
January 16th, 2008 at 12:51 pmFlorida Congressman Robert Wexler went on “The Colbert Report†to explain why he enjoys cocaine and prostitutes, preferably at the same time.
Comment by good_goony — January 16, 2008 @ 12:45 pm
Ummmm, who wouldn’t enjoy that?
January 16th, 2008 at 12:52 pm(Closeted republican homosexuals, p’haps?)
Cheney, on the other hand, will never be impeached.
Comment by good_golly — January 16, 2008 @ 12:26 pm
And why do you think this is? Because Cheney has truly never committed any impeachable offenses? Or because Cheney has managed to successfully cover his tracks by blackmailing or bribing possible witnesses and destroying evidence? Or because Pelosi and Conyers will just stall for time until the clock runs out? Or for some other reason?
January 16th, 2008 at 12:56 pmImpeachment should have happened a long time ago, but it didn’t and it apparently won’t in the future. I’m sure that makes the almighty Commander Guy and his merry band of lawbreakers very happy indeed! All this backlash against impeachment is extremely bizarre. Saying no to impeachment and taking it “off the table” proclaiming it “a waste of time” or whatever sets a very, very bad precedent. Why can’t the politicians see that? Do they not understand what impeachment is?
January 16th, 2008 at 1:03 pmCheney, on the other hand, will never be impeached.
Comment by good_golly
just because there is no justice does not mean that he isn’t a criminal….
January 16th, 2008 at 1:03 pmFlorida Congressman Robert Wexler went on “The Colbert Report†to explain why he enjoys cocaine and prostitutes, preferably at the same time. He later explained that he was just joking. Some joke.
Comment by good_golly — January 16, 2008 @ 12:45 pm
OOooo, you got ‘im, Gigi! Good catch!
January 16th, 2008 at 1:04 pmComment by MrBlueSky — January 16, 2008 @ 12:36 pm
What exactly did you think they were going to do with it?
I signed it proudly with that same thought. If I go to Gitmo, so be it. At some point you have to stand up for what you believe in. Either that or live under what is going to become fascist rule.
January 16th, 2008 at 1:04 pmI signed the petition a while ago, and I strongly support the impeachment of President Cheney.
That being said, 190,000 is an extremely disappointing number, given that many of us on the left side of the scale like to believe that our views are far more common than FoxNews would assert. This number does not make that argument easy to make. The effort by Wexler has gotten a lot of play on progressive sites like this one and on Kos, and I would have imagined the total of us out there is far, far larger than 190,000.
Considering the extent and gravity of Cheney’s constitutional crimes, it’s appalling. I think Ralph is correct when he refers to the somewhat esoteric nature of Cheney’s crimes. Unfortunately, the fact that they seem esoteric indicates the pathetically poor understanding of our government and history on the part of our general citizenry and our traditional media. Great portions of both are functionally brain-dead.
January 16th, 2008 at 1:07 pmGo Wexler, GO! Bush 2.0’s abuse of the Theory of Unitary Executive has gone on far too long and I commend Rep. Wexler’s effort at holding them accountable.
Your former Republican strategist who’s turned Purple,
January 16th, 2008 at 1:09 pmMr. Purple
http://www.mrpurple2008.com
good to hear you wingers saying that we shouldn’t be doing things because of poll numbers or the likes……we just want it done because it’s the right thing to do…..
Comment by Fred — January 16, 2008 @ 12:33 pm
Well, first of all, this isn’t a poll, this is a petition. Secondly, not a day goes by on TP where someone doesn’t derisively refer to the 24%ers, so percents cut both ways. Finally, you could introduce some nutjob petition online to amend the Constitution to adhere to God’s Law like Huck was talking about yesterday and I suspect it would get a lot more than 190,000 signatures – that wouldn’t make it right. There is no national referendum component for impeachment.
January 16th, 2008 at 1:11 pmTorture , secret prisons and extraordinary rendition , spying en masse on the American people without oversight , an illegal war on entirely false premises which has claimed the lives of 100’s of 1000’s ,by people who wrote pre 911 of their intention to invade the middle east , a subsequent refugee popualation of millions , the hyping of still further false intellegence ,now dispelled by the latest NIE toward war with the sovereign nation of Iran , kidnapping , the patriot act which was a long prepared document whose major purpose was to rewrite the entire criminal code of the US people and was passed in such a hurry bthat only 2 senators even managed to read it ,one of whom died within days of the vote on it , SIgning Statements by which the Bush administaration has taken upon itself dictatorial powers rendering the peoples duly elected representatives extraneous , the loss of habeas corpus , the oldest legal right of any population and the one upon which ALL other rights hang upon , balckwater a mercenary army with a budgat of billions represented by Ken star and the presidents own counsel fred fielding which has operated in the streets of New Orleans and is located just outside washington DC and ……. and ….. and ….. and ….. and …………………………………………………..
January 16th, 2008 at 1:17 pmThere is no national referendum component for impeachment.
Comment by Keltoi
That’s my point….just because there is no national referendum doesn’t mean that it’s not the right thing to do….
January 16th, 2008 at 1:18 pmGiGi; 1974 was an election year, and that did not deter Congress from doing their Constitutional duty(not to mention doing the right thing) and voted for the impeachment of Richard M. Nixon.
January 16th, 2008 at 1:19 pmWexler is Florida’s version of nut job Kucinich.
Comment by good_golly
Is this what you call discussion? Seriously what the hell is wrong with you?
January 16th, 2008 at 1:19 pmgg’s off her feed today….kinda dissapointing.
January 16th, 2008 at 1:21 pmDo your support Rep. Robert Wexler in his call to impeach Vice President Dick Cheney?
http://www.youpolls.com/details.asp?pid=1554
.
January 16th, 2008 at 1:24 pmThe most unpopular president in AMerican history .Personal friend of the Saudi royal family THE country who provided us with the terrorists that atacked us on 911, and who ordered the tranbsportation of ALL bin Ladens realatives out of the US within hours of the event and within hours presented the extraordinary Patriot act whcih cannot be read at all unless you have the entire crimal justice code of the united states open right next to it as you read …
January 16th, 2008 at 1:25 pmTREASON !
Check your facts Ho. Not a single Congressman ever voted for the impeachment of Richard Nixon. (He resigned first).
Comment by good_golly
yeah, and they weren’t going to either were they….that must be why he resigned.
January 16th, 2008 at 1:27 pmCheck your facts Ho. Not a single Congressman ever voted for the impeachment of Richard Nixon. (He resigned first).
Comment by good_golly — January 16, 2008 @ 1:23 pm
Gigi’s right again! Twice in one day. How come she only gets correct facts that are at least thirty years old?
Is it because at that age, they’re no longer threatening to her precarious worldview?
January 16th, 2008 at 1:27 pmBUT BARRING A NATIONAL CATASTROPY IT WILL BE HARD TO GALVANIZE THE AMERICAN PUBLIC BEHIND SUCH A SCHEME .
January 16th, 2008 at 1:28 pmPNAC (on invading the ME inorder to control China and the developing world thru control of oil )
Oh get over it golly.
Wexler is a smart guy. People want Cheney impeached – there’s nothing unreasonable about that.
Wexler’s appearance on Colbert was hilarious – he has a great sense of humor. Remember – it’s a comedy show that airs on Comedy Central.
January 16th, 2008 at 1:28 pmNow go back to watching Fox “News”…
#45 bluestatedon:
I am right there with you on your disappointment. I check the website every few days and can’t believe there aren’t more people calling for impeachment. Many progressives are tired of all of the hearings with absolutely no results. Fine, hold hearings then DO SOMETHING! I can’t think of any other ways we can make our opinion known. I guess we have to hang it there and hope Conyers does what he promised years ago – impeach Cheney then Bush! By the way I think afterdowningstreet.org was founded or sponsored by Conyers. What happened?
January 16th, 2008 at 1:29 pmGigi’s right again! Twice in one day. How come she only gets correct facts that are at least thirty years old?
Is it because at that age, they’re no longer threatening to her precarious worldview?
Comment by ralph the wonder llama
she still seems to miss the whole point….that Nixon was a criminal too…..I give her a D so far today…..not really up to par.
January 16th, 2008 at 1:30 pm(GiGi) still seems to miss the whole point….that Nixon was a criminal too…..I give her a D so far today…..not really up to par.
Comment by Fred — January 16, 2008 @ 1:30 pm
I concur. Two correct facts in the miasma of distortions, blather and brain farts for which GiGi is responsible today is not a great record. However, if we have to put up with her, perhaps we should at least recognize when she gets stuff right. Maybe she’ll start getting things from the eighties right next.
I doubt there’s anything we can do about the point-missing, though… that seems hard-wired into her circuitry.
January 16th, 2008 at 1:34 pmThe count on Wexler’s petition is going up more quickly again. Imagine what would happen if the media blackout on impeachment were lifted.
January 16th, 2008 at 1:34 pm66 damn gg what’s wrong? You’re starting to worry me. Are you ok? Seriously that post by you is disjointed…..he resigned for some reason…..maybe he was just feeling guilty???
January 16th, 2008 at 1:36 pmA national election decided by the supremes in which bush cheney lost the popular vote with the disney channel ( ABC) coming out hours before the conclusion saying gore won and amidst widespread voting irregularities and a subsequent election on electronic voting machines without paper ballots where the candidate won ( ?)by as few votes in the popular election as Rep. Wexler has gathered in his petition ! ( .6 % )
January 16th, 2008 at 1:38 pm1/3 of the AMerican people polled believe that 911 was an inside job by bush/cheney !
Thats because people like you are impeding it.
Comment by BARTLEBEE — January 16, 2008 @ 1:19 p
People like me who read the Constitution and find no mention of impeachment referendums..?
January 16th, 2008 at 1:38 pmFor a Congressman to get on national t.v., whether he is joking or not, and say that cocaine and prostitution are fun, is not a good thing, particularly when kids could be watching.
Comment by good_golly
Have you taken a look around at the sexual scandals that repubs are getting caught in……..that’s pretty public…where is your outrage?
I’m going to have to grade you down to a D-
January 16th, 2008 at 1:38 pmYes, impeach him, but before November
January 16th, 2008 at 1:39 pmFor a Congressman to get on national t.v., whether he is joking or not, and say that cocaine and prostitution are fun, is not a good thing, particularly when kids could be watching.
Comment by good_golly — January 16, 2008 @ 1:33 pm
Oh, THAT’s the point you were trying to make when you said:
Florida Congressman Robert Wexler went on “The Colbert Report†to explain why he enjoys cocaine and prostitutes, preferably at the same time.
I thought it sounded like you were trying to indict him for indulging in disreputable vices and were thus impugning his character.
Turns out you were indicting him for indulging the whims of a comedy performer.
Much more serious. Everyone knows kids have no sense of humor and could never tell the difference between real personal revelation and, y’know, comedy.
January 16th, 2008 at 1:39 pmThe best part of Clinton’s impeachment process is that it was headed up by Newt who was probably getting his own BJ under the table during the proceedings. Bunch of hypocrites.
January 16th, 2008 at 1:39 pmGood Golly can you be any less patriotic or upstanding ? You are defending war crimes and treason , the bleeding of our nations treasury , and youth .
January 16th, 2008 at 1:41 pmand the destruction of our international reputation .
January 16th, 2008 at 1:42 pmNixon resigned because he no longer had the support of Congress to get done what he wanted to get done, and was likely to be impeached.
Comment by good_golly — January 16, 2008 @ 1:37 pm
Oops. GiGi has spoiled her record of historical accuracy.
She skips over the “Nixon was a criminal” part of the whole Watergate story and tries to convince us that the resignation was because “he no longer had the support of Congress to get done what he wanted to get done” rather than because he had been caught trying to subvert the democratic process and covering up crimes that he had authorized.
Not good, GiGi.
Oh, and she also missed the sarcasm in Fred’s post. But that’s to be expected.
January 16th, 2008 at 1:43 pmCheck your facts Ho. Not a single Congressman ever voted for the impeachment of Richard Nixon. (He resigned first).
Comment by good_golly
yeah, and they weren’t going to either were they….that must be why he resigned.
Comment by Fred — January 16, 2008 @ 1:27 pm
__________________________
Wrong again Fred. They were likely going to impeach him, both Republicans and Democrats, which is why he resigned. I know you are probably not old enough to have been through it personally, but you should really try reading real history books.
Comment by good_golly
Fred, Nixon resigned because he no longer had the support of Congress to get done what he wanted to get done, and was likely to be impeached. What part of that don’t you understand?
Comment by good_golly
Please don’t ask me to organize your thought process any more gg….this is just sad……you fail…reduced to an F
January 16th, 2008 at 1:43 pmthis is fun gg. If you’re thinking about running, well ya’ll come back now ya hear?
January 16th, 2008 at 1:46 pmNixon was a choir boy compared to ANYTHING that has happen under bush and cheney !
January 16th, 2008 at 1:46 pmThe democrats are either mostly in-cahoots or owned by large international corporations ! Yet most here at TP are going to vote for any one that is put up by the ticket as the lesser of 2 evils !
January 16th, 2008 at 1:49 pmWhen the game is rigged you get up from the table !
Nixon was a choir boy compared to ANYTHING that has happen under bush and cheney !
Comment by freeman
I agree freeman. How could any American who called for Bills impeachment not be calling for bush’s impeachment? Any real American that is.
January 16th, 2008 at 1:50 pmeven the con game of cups and balls employs 3 cups . Are we really this simpleminded ?
January 16th, 2008 at 1:50 pmThe 2 party system is dead !
January 16th, 2008 at 1:51 pmtough day gg. you keep losing.
you are a republican.
January 16th, 2008 at 1:51 pmNixon resigned because he no longer had the support of Congress to get done what he wanted to get done, and was likely to be impeached.
Comment by good_golly — January 16, 2008 @ 1:37 pm
it’s comforting to know THAT congress was unwilling to support a criminal enterprise. so much for THIS congress.
January 16th, 2008 at 1:52 pmgood golly: “Awesome! He has vaulted past a tenth of a half of a percent of the population clamoring for this move! Only 110,000 more signatures to go and his action will have the formal support of an ENTIRE one tenth of one percent! ”
Whenever the discussion is about Bush’s low ratings, they say polls don’t matter. Then they turn around and post something like the blather above.
The reason Nixon resigned is that he KNEW he was going to be impeached. This was because repubicans of good conscience understood laws had been broken and he was a crook. There doesn’t seem to be more than a few republicans of good conscience today. That’s the ONLY reason why these guys won’t be impeached.
January 16th, 2008 at 1:54 pmThe 2 party system is dead !
Comment by freeman
I don’t want to start a war but why do you say this? It’s messed up but it’s not over. Not even you believe that or you wouldn’t be here talking about it……
January 16th, 2008 at 1:55 pmBut Reverend Haggard said that cocaine and prostitutes were fun!
And the sweet adorable Laura Bush went on tv and said that her husband milked horses, male horses, with his hands behind his back!
What kind of message does that send to the kids watching tv GG?
January 16th, 2008 at 1:57 pmReality check time.
Only 4% in Michigan voted for Kucinich.
75% of the people think we are on the wrong track.
1/10th of one percent (190K) signed a petition for impeachment.
40 million votes were recorded last season for the winner of American Idol.
Gas has risen over $3/gal, gold is over $900/oz and Citigroup had to beg 12.3 billion from foreigners to stay afloat.
The armchair commandoes believe that by writing every day as posters on blogs about impeachment that someone else will take care of righting the wrongs in this nation.
Lazy foolish Americans. They’ve forgotten that this country was founded by revolution. If you don’t see a resemblance of King George to King George you ain’t been paying a damn bit of attention.
Without millions in the streets putting aside their shopping mania we can all agree that the REAL ID act, and more war and more spending without restraint, and more carbon emissions without rationing and controls, etc etc etc will be in our future.
Stop pretending this is going to get better by the media choice of your presidential candidate. They chose the candidate not you. Stop kidding yourself. This is WAY more serious than the majority of this country has the cognitive ability to understand.
It’s time for the people to rise up and take back this country. Not violently but in numbers. If this country is not willing to stand up and out for what they believe in risking it all then this country has no future.
“To stand in silence when they should be protesting makes cowards out of men”
January 16th, 2008 at 1:58 pmAbraham Lincoln
Actually, several members of congress voted to impeach Nixon; all three articles of impeachment were passed in a (somewhat) bi-partisan basis in the Judiciary committee. Nixon resigned before the full house voted on impeachment, but not before both Democrats and Republicans had voted for impeachment in the House (albeit only in committee).
One of the three charges was ignoring Congressional subpoenas. This is a fairly straight-forward charge against the current administration that wouldn’t take too long to prove and probably wouldn’t tie up too much of the House’s valuable time, nor does the charge suffer for lack of evidence. The only problem is that it pales when compared to the more serious crimes of the administration. But it is immune to the standard twaddle coming from Nancy Pelosi and her lack of a table.
January 16th, 2008 at 1:59 pmObama is plan B to hillary , Edwards is not even getting press and the participants in the televised debates are chosen by disney. The only candidate who even talks about restoring the constitution is Ron Paul and as a lifelong democrat of 50 I can not believe that I am even saying this.
January 16th, 2008 at 1:59 pmRestore the Constitution and bring the war to an end ! I will not live in a comfortable dictatorship and if there isn’t a democrat who will promise to do this in Nov, then I will be working against that party and it’s candidate .
DEMOCRACY NOW !
freeman: “The 2 party system is dead !”
I’m not sure why anyone even thinks this. Democrats will win the Whitehouse this year and take supermajorities in both houses of congress. Democrats will immediately begin withdrawing troops from Iraq, immediately take up the issue of universal healthcare, immediately begin hearings on possible domestic and international law-breaking in this administration, recind the disgusting tax breaks for the most wealthy, begin the process of re-regulating corporations and the media in particular, institute retroactive windfall profits taxes on the oil industry and pass legislation providing incentives to renewable energy resources. If you’ve read ANY of the policy positions by even the most moderate of Dems, you must know that this will happen. Isn’t this what you want?
January 16th, 2008 at 2:00 pmfreeman, I agree that Edwards is the most progressive of the three frontrunners, but even the most conservative of the three, Barak Obama, wouldn’t veto any potential legislation a Democratic congress would bring.
January 16th, 2008 at 2:02 pmFred the lesser of 2 evils is a con game , and I do not believe that telling the democrats they are assured my vote is likely to hold their feet to the fire . ANY CANDIDATE WHO WILL NOT RESTORE MY BASIC RIGHTS IS A COLLABORATOR AND DOES NOT DESERVE ANY TRUST .
January 16th, 2008 at 2:05 pmThe politics of hope ? Sorry ,rhetoric , so short on details is a lie .
freeman: “The only candidate who even talks about restoring the constitution is Ron Paul…”
If you mean restoring the constitution as seen by the libertarian party, I agree, but I don’t agree with their opinions on the constitution. Any of the Dem frontrunners will withdraw from Iraq. They’ve all made that clear. Ron Paul believes that there should be no regulation of the market or of large corporations. The biggest domestic problems we face would be made even worse by someone like Ron Paul. He’s a libertarian. If you don’t know what that entails, I suggest you find out.
January 16th, 2008 at 2:06 pmfreeman: “Fred the lesser of 2 evils is a con game”
Bullshit. That’s the kind of loser talk that gave us Bush in the first place.
January 16th, 2008 at 2:07 pmThe power has always been with the populace but they have been trained by TV , the school system , the church and their politicainjs to surrender their autonomies to the experts .
January 16th, 2008 at 2:08 pmSelf be your guide
Self be your leader .
Do not look for any other leader !
Gautama buddha
So you’ve told me . And please keep the expletives out this time .
January 16th, 2008 at 2:09 pmRalph Nader and pat buchannan didn’t fix the elections bro , diedold and the sureme court did. Bush never won an election in the USA .
January 16th, 2008 at 2:11 pmThe US government …. the best government money can buy !
January 16th, 2008 at 2:11 pmfreeman, well then get busy and vote nader or dennis….that’s your right…..too bad you can’t see the bigger picture though. If repubs win we will never be able to change things back to what we think is right for America…….
January 16th, 2008 at 2:12 pmRepresentative government ?
January 16th, 2008 at 2:12 pmGiGi; Do you REALLY think that Tricky Dick lost support in Congress only because he was pocketing the White House silverware?
Nixon resigned before he could be actually impeached because the Supreme Court ordered him to turn over the White House tapes-the ones that were the smoking guns proving his participation in covering up the Watergate burglary and approving hush money to keep the burglars silent.
YOU check the facts.
January 16th, 2008 at 2:12 pmcivil behavior; Damn straight!
As Abbie Hoffman said “Revolution for the hell of it.”
January 16th, 2008 at 2:15 pmFred I’m with U but do you really think that leaving the changes that have been made to our laws in place under a democrat is really a good idea ? The logic is a little too easy .
January 16th, 2008 at 2:15 pmGood cop … bad cop …
If the democratic candidate agreed to roll back these changes I would use every resource to get him or her elected !
gg has her own set of facts…..she’ll let you know when you’re wrong.
January 16th, 2008 at 2:16 pmThe best part of Clinton’s impeachment process is that it was headed up by Newt who was probably getting his own BJ under the table during the proceedings. Bunch of hypocrites.
Comment by ziggs13 — January 16, 2008 @ 1:39 pm
Probably? Was! Before, during, and after he went to the hospital where his wife was (with cancer) and told her he was getting a divorce so he could go off an marry his hummergiver. Hypocracy at its worst. But that’s the GOP way.
Newt lead impeachment for lying about a personal, consensual event, while Bush et al walks cleanly for lying us into war, outing a covert CIA agent – whose job was to stem nuclear proliferation in the middle east, and then lying about it.
TOTALLY the same thing, don’t you think? (rolling eyes)
January 16th, 2008 at 2:17 pmNon cooperation with evil is as much a duty as doing good .
January 16th, 2008 at 2:17 pmGandhi
OK, here it is without expletives: Let’s review. In 2000, many people were hoodwinked into believing that voting for Al Gore would simply be “voting for the lesser of two evils.” How’d that work out for you? Do you seriously believe that Al Gore would have attacked Iraq – he was the most outspoken critic of that potential policy in 2002. Do you seriously believe Al Gore would have given hundreds of billions in tax breaks to the wealthy – he warned us about this during the 2000 election. Do you think he would have sat around staring into space while terrorists planned and executed the 9-11 attack? – he strongly advocated reinforced cockpit doors, armed air marshals and more stringent regulation of check-in proceedures.
There was a big difference. I wish you third party people would at least acknowledge that fact.
January 16th, 2008 at 2:18 pmGiGi; BTW: In FACT, members of Congress DID vote in favor of impeaching Nixon- in committee, passing 3 articles of impeachment.
Again, check the facts you ignoramus.
January 16th, 2008 at 2:19 pmFred I’m with U but do you really think that leaving the changes that have been made to our laws in place under a democrat is really a good idea ?
Comment by freeman
could you be a little more specific….what laws that were sponsored and passed by democrats are you talking about?
January 16th, 2008 at 2:20 pmfreeman: “If the democratic candidate agreed to roll back these changes I would use every resource to get him or her elected !”
Even Hillary Clinton has pledged publically on numerous occasions that one of her first duties will be to review every single executive order of the last eight years and revoke the majority of them on constitutional principle. COME ON!
January 16th, 2008 at 2:20 pmfreeman, I’m with jack on 113. Seriously, do you think we would be in Iraq right now if a dem had been elected in 2000?
Bill is a dem, how did you do in the 90’s…..was that so much worse than where we have been the last 7 years?…..comon…….be serious.
January 16th, 2008 at 2:23 pmfreeman: “Ralph Nader and pat buchannan didn’t fix the elections bro , diedold and the sureme court did. Bush never won an election in the USA .”
There were a number of factors which made the election close enough for the Supreme Court to steal it. The two-year media war on Gore was a big factor. The effort by Ralph Nader to convince people that there were no differences between Bush and Gore was another. Incidently, Nader has admitted in retrospect that he knew there were differences. That means Nader pushed a political argument he knew was not honest for political gain. That makes Nader a demogogue.
January 16th, 2008 at 2:25 pmfreeman, I’m afraid the real con job is if you are convinced that you can make a 3rd party candidate into a serious contender in American politics today……
January 16th, 2008 at 2:26 pmI still wonder what country Cheney plans on living in after his term is up. He must know that he is the most despised person in this country. I double black dog dare him to go on the speaker circuit without tomato and rotten vegetable proof kevlar.
January 16th, 2008 at 2:27 pmIf for one day 1/2 of America called in sick and didn’t shop ,Wall Street would notice . Just think of all the pretty graph’s on the disney news stations to register our disappointment in our politicians !
January 16th, 2008 at 2:27 pmThis charade should be over by now but the people (progressives ?) tolerate it , so it continues . Violence is not the answer but noncooperation probably is .The responsibility is yours and mine , a representative who takes large sums of money from the real power players , large international corpoartions , will not help us save and further our democracy
I don’t want a smiley face put on the dictator , I’m an American !
I support your right freeman to pick the candidate that you believe in….even if it swings an election in a direction that neither of us favor…..I just wish you would not be so adamnant about it…..
I mean, what happens when you have to go into that booth to vote and your choices are mcain or hillary…..will you not at least join us in a vote against what the conservatives are doing to us at that point in time?
January 16th, 2008 at 2:30 pm121 freeman, you’re obviously a young idealist…I respect that. Been there done that. Things in the real world just aren’t that black and white. Those things you call for….people calling in sick etc. are not going to happen….
120 I think they have selected uraguay…..
January 16th, 2008 at 2:33 pmfreeman: “The responsibility is yours and mine , a representative who takes large sums of money from the real power players , large international corpoartions , will not help us save and further our democracy…”
OK, this is a great example. The ONLY way to stop this process from corrupting our national elections is public financing of all federal elections. As a libertarian, Ron Paul is dead set against any talk of this, but you sing the praises of Ron Paul. Could you explain this contradiction?
January 16th, 2008 at 2:33 pmFred life is inherently dangerous and sex is messy , non the less , I still love and breathe !
January 16th, 2008 at 2:34 pmthe opinions expressed by Fred on this blog are his and his alone.
January 16th, 2008 at 2:34 pmFred life is inherently dangerous and sex is messy , non the less , I still love and breathe !
Comment by freeman
me too, peace to you and yours.
January 16th, 2008 at 2:36 pmfreeman: “a representative who takes large sums of money from the real power players , large international corpoartions , will not help us save and further our democracy…”
The only candidate in this election that corporate lobbyists admit they are completely afraid of is John Edwards. He’s a democrat. Why wouldn’t a person holding the views you claim to value be supporting John Edwards?
January 16th, 2008 at 2:36 pmBlah blah blah blah blah… All I see is a LOT of talk and not a single IOTA of action.
Same crap, different day.
January 16th, 2008 at 2:39 pmBlah blah blah blah blah… All I see is a LOT of talk and not a single IOTA of action.
Same crap, different day.
Comment by JPV
Tell us what you are doing about it.
January 16th, 2008 at 2:41 pmI don’t mean to sign him praises jack , I have MANY problems with libertarianism but I do know that as a philosophy it believes in the strict protections , under the Constitution , of EVERY individual right !
January 16th, 2008 at 2:41 pmI didn’t say I would definitely vote for him , bur I am trying to understand his take on other issues and am HARDLY an expert on him . That said , he is the only candidate who talks of withdrawing US troops from evrywhere , ending the clandestine toppling and manipulation of foreign governments and restoring our constitutional rights , and for this he has my sincere thanks .
I like John Edward immensely or atleast what he is saying . We need a progressive vs a libertarian in the next election or I fear we are just putting a band aid on gangrene .
January 16th, 2008 at 2:43 pmCheck your facts Ho. Not a single Congressman ever voted for the impeachment of Richard Nixon. (He resigned first).
Comment by good_golly — January 16, 2008 @ 1:23 pm
Yes, because Richard Nixon (a crook) had more honor and dignity than George W Bush and didn’t want to completely ruin the country as Bush and his followers (you) want.
January 16th, 2008 at 2:43 pmTotally agreed. I try to live every day as much as I can in protest of those things and when I do need to make purchases I buy exclusively from local merchants, and try to avoid corporate products. Obviously computers and other electronics are difficult to do this with but household items, food, clothes and other daily items are easy to do this with if you’re willing to spnd about a third more on it all. And when somehting is not needed, don’t buy it. The more people start protesting with their dollars, the faster the message will be delivered.
If you get gift cards to Big Box stores, donate ‘em to charities.
“Poverty consists, not in the decrease of one’s possessions, but in the increase of one’s greed.”
January 16th, 2008 at 2:46 pmme too, peace to you and yours.
Comment by Fred — January 16, 2008
January 16th, 2008 at 2:46 pmMajor ditto there brother man ! I have always loved the irony of that bumper sticker God bless the US , TRANSLATION , god bless us .
Organized religion is like some sort of collective brain death !
freeman: “I have MANY problems with libertarianism but I do know that as a philosophy it believes in the strict protections , under the Constitution , of EVERY individual right !”
Really? How does libertarian philosophy protect you from corporate monopoly? How does it protect you from feeding your children poisonous food or giving them lead-filled toys? How does libertarian philosophy protect you from being denied healthcare by a profit-driven middleman controlling the healthcare system? How does it protect you from having to compete with child-labor for a factory job? I’m serious about this. I know this much: the absence of government regulation may or may not lead to greater personal freedom. But, history shows that it ALWAYS leads to more corporate power.
January 16th, 2008 at 2:46 pmBluesky, you better change your name to darksky.
January 16th, 2008 at 2:47 pmThese criminals in the whitehouse have committed major crimes against our Country and its governing bible, the Constitution, if you will. They are deserving of more than impeachment, but lets start there.
If Congress can’t defend our Constitution by bringing hearings before our governing body we can’t depend on them to represent us in goverment. Bush and the neocons want to ruin the peoples goverment. They are not afraid to say so (as in it is just a piece of paper) and are well on their way to accomplishing their goal. Our represenatives need to throw a wrench into their plans. Impeachment may be that wrench.
Hey watch out your restoring my faith in humanity here. LOL
January 16th, 2008 at 2:47 pmHey watch out your restoring my faith in humanity here. LOL
Comment by freeman
I like it when it works out that way.
January 16th, 2008 at 2:55 pmIndividuals are usually good at heart, it’s the collectives of humanity that are corrupted to the point of being inhumane. I personally feel that is why those who are most capable of empathy are not easily disposed to “group think” and being part of an organization. Much like Buddha and even Jesus warned of the dangers institutionalizing their message would pose, power does bring some level of corruption. It’s also why any “Christian” who supports Huckabee and all the other zealot candidates is obviously either illiterate or has never read the damn Bible. I find it so odd that most atheists I know have a better understanding of the words in that book than the crazy sheep who base their hopes and dreams on it.
January 16th, 2008 at 2:57 pmIf Wexler had told me he’d use my name in his push, I would have never signed that thing.
Comment by MrBlueSky — January 16, 2008 @ 12:36 pm
For a petition to be valid, they must be able to verfy who you are. When I signed I gave my correct name zip, email and phone #.
Duh…..
And Golly_goofy, if you signed with bogus info and a non working email, your posting was probably deleted, dumba$$
January 16th, 2008 at 2:59 pm140 god help us .
January 16th, 2008 at 2:59 pmfreeman, this has nothing to do with faith in humanity. This has been a stickler for me for a long time. The modern libertarian movement was begun by big industrialists like Coors and William Simon. It was a response to the growing political progressiveness and involvement of the strongest middle class in American history. It was seen as a way of convincing working class Americans that their interests were the same as the wealthy. The idea was to dress it up with emotional issues like drug laws and gun laws as well as flowery language about personal freedom and a peculiar interpretation of certain consitutional principles. It’s a huge philosophical “bait and switch.” Bait with personal freedom and switch to unbridled, unregulated corporate power. In my opinion, it’s a huge philosophical scam.
January 16th, 2008 at 3:05 pmNot that paul is einstein mind you but you must suspend newtonian disbelief inorder to appreciate a different model for gravity . I am finding that to understand libertarian philosophy you must step outside the box . U tube has hours of his appearances and in all fairness much of what he says makes sense .
January 16th, 2008 at 3:05 pmI find it so odd that most atheists I know have a better understanding of the words in that book than the crazy sheep who base their hopes and dreams on it.
Comment by Stupid Git — January 16, 2008 @ 2:57 pm
Because most atheists study the “holy books” and the history of religions before coming to their conclusions.
At least that is what I did.
I for one cannot believe in a god that required innocent blood sacrificed to it ( animals and people ), when the Abrahamic religions started. Sounds more the the Christion definition of a Daemon to me
January 16th, 2008 at 3:06 pmfreeman: “U tube has hours of his appearances and in all fairness much of what he says makes sense .”
Does it make sense to you to test and regulate the food we eat and the pharmaceuticals we take? Does public financing of elections and barring corporate lobbyists from the capital make sense to you? Do public libraries and public schools make sense to you? How free-to-drive, public interstate highways – does that make sense? Does it make sense to have rules of conduct for corporate boards so that it’s illegal for them to lie to their shareholders and the public? Do laws which protect the environment from destruction by corporate interests make sense?
January 16th, 2008 at 3:16 pmHow about this, freeman – have you noticed that quite a few American billionaires refer to themselves as libertarians? Does that give you pause?
January 16th, 2008 at 3:18 pmJack U may well be right , I have not decided but I will not take any statement at face value by any candidate or news organisation . I maintain that honest inquiry is always better than following the party line .
January 16th, 2008 at 3:20 pmDogma is not revelation but only a sign of lack of criticality , rhetoric is so easy a parrot can recite it . Freedom is thinking for oneself and not easily achieved and I cannot say whether U are right or not ,only that I will try to keep an open mind so as not to miss the truth because I assume I already know better .
U tube has hours of his appearances and in all fairness much of what he says makes sense .
Comment by freeman — January 16, 2008 @ 3:05 pm
Depends on what you mean by “much”. “much” of what he says is quite incomplete, and couched in the simplest terms, without pointing out the results. Libertarians have no answers to the questions, for instance, of morality and responsibility in letting the corporations and industries run wild, causing the deaths and injuries of hundreds before correcting the procedures or products that are faulty. the answer is always “the free market will take care of it”, which may be true, but at a very high cost in lives and health. As a progressive, I have the fault of valuing life over profit. Therefore, I want good, solid testing procedures resulting in regulations that protect the health and welfare of humans, even as those very same procedures cut into the ability of the owners to purchase a bigger yacht or 4th vacation home. Ron Paul addresses none of these issues. He is a simple-minded person, and squirms mightily when questioned directly about the hateful, racist rhetoric in publications with his name on them. While he would pull troops from Iraq, and maybe even the rest of the world, his domestic policies would be a disaster. He would be an isolationist presiding over further corporate rape of the American people. Not much of an improvement, I’m afraid.
January 16th, 2008 at 3:21 pmOr maybe he could take a reality pill and let it drop.
Comment by Keltoi
I have an even better idea. You can drop dead!
January 16th, 2008 at 3:23 pmI guess what bothers me about libertarians is that their philosophy is like a religion. Never in history has unregulated capitalism worked. Never. It has always destroyed itself in a headlong rush to monopoly. No society with an unregulated market has ever led to anything but economic disaster. The “robber baron” period led to the panics of the late 19th century. The “roaring 20’s” led to the great republican depression. And, the last 27 years of modern libertarian/conservative economic dogma have led us to where we are today – on the verge of the “Panic of 2008,” with a destroyed dollar, an eviscerated middle class, record deficits and debt, record negative balance of trade, corporate fraud on an unprecidented level, etc. etc.
But facts and history seem to mean nothing to libertarians. They’ve got their dogma and they stick to it.
January 16th, 2008 at 3:27 pmDo laws which protect the environment from destruction by corporate interests make sense?
jack
Jack on U tube Paul speaks to this issue and his answer REALLY suprised me , I had never thought of it in the way he approached it .
January 16th, 2008 at 3:27 pmDon’t mean to cut and run but I need to do spanish lessons with my kids as I am spending the next few months in South America and my wife is giving me the evil eye because I’m taking up the cumputer we need to use .
But please don;t give the dem’s a free pass and while I’m away tell Harry Reid to keep the teeth in the new FISA bill .
freeman: “I cannot say whether U are right or not ,only that I will try to keep an open mind so as not to miss the truth because I assume I already know better .”
Thank you. That’s the most anyone can ask for. I’m a life-long democrat and proud of it, so you can take that cube of salt with anything I post, but I will say again that the positions of even the most conservative Democratic frontrunner, Barak Obama, seem to be in concordance with many of the things you say you want.
January 16th, 2008 at 3:30 pmTHANK YOU ROBERT WEXLER
January 16th, 2008 at 3:31 pmfreeman on Ron Paul: “on U tube Paul speaks to this issue and his answer REALLY suprised me , I had never thought of it in the way he approached it .”
Yes, I’ve heard his spiel on the environment a few times. He has a tendency to be obtuse in my opinion. Bottom line: corporations will NEVER protect the environment when protection of the environment is not profitable in the short run. They’ve already proven this over and over and in my opinion, it’s downright foolish at this point to expect them to “do the right thing.”
January 16th, 2008 at 3:33 pmLefty as I said just as an experiment listen to the guy , suspend disbelief and then make a call . I expected to Totaaly disagree with his view on the eviormental issue , for instance and was really suprised at his answer . gotta go …… stay critical
January 16th, 2008 at 3:34 pmLooks like GiGi scrammed after being called out after his troll droppings. Always doing that.
January 16th, 2008 at 3:34 pmoh and sorry for the typo’s
January 16th, 2008 at 3:35 pmYet most here at TP are going to vote for any one that is put up by the ticket as the lesser of 2 evils !
When the game is rigged you get up from the table !
Comment by freeman
And what would that accomplish other than giving the game to the bad guys. I’m not real happy about having to vote for someone who I can’t support 100%, but that’s the fact of our current political system and the way it will be until we change it to a “winner takes all, one man one vote” primary and national election. If that ever happens, the power will fall to “we the people” which is where it should be.
January 16th, 2008 at 3:46 pmPlease contact Senator Dodd and let him know you support his effort to defeat extension/reauthorization of the temporary FISA bill.
That is, if your rights mean anything at all to you.
January 16th, 2008 at 5:03 pmBut…
In the history of our country we have never had a more complacent, subservient, uneducated and mis-informed public as we have now. Those of us who try to peaceably assemble are marginalized and ignored, ignored by our representatives in congress and by our media. Those of us who legitimately petition the government are drowned out by a few narrow-minded and agenda driven, and at time government supported, organizations who spread lies and propaganda. When the people do get a chance to confront government officials they are frequently ignored anyway.
Our country does not have the freedom of the press as we used to have like during the time of Watergate. We have some journalists reporting on and writing books about the grievances of our government officials, but our most watched, listened to and read media outlets do not report, do not cover, these grievances.
If you are blond, female and in trouble, you are guaranteed massive media coverage; especially so if you are dead. If you happen to have a legal point to make about something obscure like habeas corpus you will be greeted with silence.
If you attempt to bring up subjects of law that are of supreme importance to every person in the country such as impeachment you will be ignored.
January 16th, 2008 at 6:26 pmfrazzel, that’s what happens when we allow the boards of corporations which own the media to tamper with their news departments. There used to be a legal “firewall” that protected news departments and news organizations were not really run for profit because they were part of the deal we made with them to grant them free access to our public airwaves.
The media needs to be re-regulated. Deregulation of the media was one of Clinton’s most glaring mistakes.
January 16th, 2008 at 7:01 pmTP users are so silly.
Clinton committed perjury. That is a high-crime.
Wex, mentioned:
- passing false information to a press-secretary is a crime. Wex gave false information in this very speech….jail him.
- outing a CIA agent. How many millions did we spend to find NOTHING?! Some low-level guy got slapped on the wrist. Oh. But maybe if we try again and mean it this time then we’ll get that VP!
- lying into war. So did both Clintons, LAT, NYT, Europe, UN, Dems, Repubs, CIA, etc., etc. It turns out they were wrong about WMDs but that is far from a high-crime.
I can’t remember what else this guy whined about. Was it that Bush is just a mean, meany? Let’s impeach!
January 16th, 2008 at 7:11 pmjack
January 16th, 2008 at 7:14 pmthanx for both the info and the humility , also the young idealist description ! I’m in my 50’s and have also been a lifelong democrat as well and DID vote for Gore in the presidential election , such is the depth of my disillusionment with the democrats barring few that have been enabling these animals since THAT stolen elction .
Nader however was right , as is Edwards in his assertion that corporations have stolen our democracy .
Oh please ,
January 16th, 2008 at 7:17 pman appropriate name for someone so uninformed . Your argument is not even worth addressing .
Oh not glaring voting irregularities , the fact that the ballot was so confusing that buchannan got several times more votes than he should ever have gotten in certain districts ,or that the vote was overseen by the people appointed by Jeb Bush ? It had nothing to do with the supreme court’s stopping the vote recount or that hours before the polls closed the major networks told the voters that it’s official , Gore has won , which kept democratic voters from bothering ?
January 16th, 2008 at 7:32 pmI think thats a little simple , Facts . Can you say FOUL: PLAY ?
Fortunately for Americans ,Nader has been fighting large corporations for decades and just as john Edwards is saying , we will never make real progresss as long as it’s business as usual in washington !
January 16th, 2008 at 7:35 pmGeorge Bush was NEVER elected legitamately . DIebold , chicanery and the supreme court appointed him !
January 16th, 2008 at 7:36 pmDear leader lost the popular vote in the first stolen election and won on electronic voting machines supplied by a major contributor by ‘6 % in the next . How many votes did buchanna take from th e republicans Facts .. he has even stated publically that he recieved so many votes in error as a result of the confusing and I maintain purposely misleading ballots . Quess you missed that ?
January 16th, 2008 at 7:42 pm…… . 6 %
January 16th, 2008 at 7:43 pm.6 of 1 percent on diebold machines with no exit polling and no paper trail on machines that EVERYONE knows can be hacked !
January 16th, 2008 at 7:46 pmWhy is it Edwards is completely ignored by the MSM and Disney can decide if Kucinich can debate in Nevada ? ( disney owns the other channel ABC but U catch my drift ) ???????
January 16th, 2008 at 7:54 pmask Ralph Nader , I think he knows ….
when logic and proportion have fallen softly dead
and the white queen is talking backwards and …….go ask Alice
OH and I voted for Gore in any case !
January 16th, 2008 at 7:56 pmohplease: “TP users are so silly.
Clinton committed perjury. That is a high-crime.”
Clinton was ACCUSED of perjury, not convicted, smart guy. The definition of perjury is to lie about something material to the case. Clinton was accused of lying about his Lewinsky affair, but the lie came with respect to a “perjury trap” which was set during a deposition regarding the Paula Jones accusations which was a different case, so he was never going to be convicted of perjury.
Here’s a thought: before you accuse others of being “silly,” get your facts straight so you don’t come off like a know-it-all shit-heal.
As far as your pathetic non-explanations of what you think has gone on with respect to Bush and his band of war criminals, they’re so pathetic that it would be useless to even argue about them, but I thought at least you should be clear on the definition of perjury.
January 16th, 2008 at 8:14 pmohplease, perjury about a blowjob is not a high crime by any measure. that was simply a republican soft coup, an attempted takeover of the government by illegal means, which they kept attempting until it worked.
January 16th, 2008 at 8:15 pmfreeman: “Why is it Edwards is completely ignored by the MSM”
Edwards wants to re-regulate the media. He’s made that clear. According to a recent article in the British press, corporate lobbyists all agree that the candidate corporate America would LEAST like to see President is John Edwards. Therefore, it’s no coincidence that the corporate media tries to ignore him. He’s the last thing they want to have to deal with.
January 16th, 2008 at 8:18 pmLefty: “ohplease, perjury about a blowjob is not a high crime by any measure.”
No kidding. The various definitions of “high crimes” were crafted, in part, by a guy who was boinking one of his slaves, one who was having an affair with a cousin and a guy who had multiple affairs with prostitutes. I’m pretty sure that when they were thinking about “high crimes,” sex was the farthest thing from their minds.
January 16th, 2008 at 8:22 pmtexaslady – what’s your point?
Some border agents did not get a pardon – ? Pardon me. What is the equation here?
January 16th, 2008 at 10:16 pm“It would not be in the Democrats’ best interest to bring impeachment charges in an election year which would appear highly partisan, and then lose in a highly publicized Senate trial for lack of evidence.”
Really? Republicans did exactly that and then “won” the presidency.
Plus there was not enough evidence when House Judiciary started the Nixon impeachment hearings, but they found it, and several Republican committee members voted for impeachment.
Against Cheney and Bush there are heaps of evidence. They even admit destroying tapes and other evidence of criminal activities.
Start the hearings!
January 16th, 2008 at 11:10 pmFred the lesser of 2 evils is a con game , and I do not believe that telling the democrats they are assured my vote is likely to hold their feet to the fire . ANY CANDIDATE WHO WILL NOT RESTORE MY BASIC RIGHTS IS A COLLABORATOR AND DOES NOT DESERVE ANY TRUST .
The politics of hope ? Sorry ,rhetoric , so short on details is a lie .
Comment by freeman — January 16, 2008 @ 2:05 pm
Add Karma Recommend (0) | Report Abuse
I disagree. Like Fred, I think it’s more important to have some sort of progress, any progress, rather than risk electing a criminal like Bush/Cheney. Right now, the worst of the Democratic candidates is better than the best of the Republican candidates. This is not always the case, but this year is most assuredly is.
The best long-term strategy to get the country on the correct track is to elect the best possible candidate that is electable (right now, Edwards and Obama, by the numbers, are the most electable, and Hillary is third most electable). Then, when the state of the union improves, you raise the bar for the next candidate(s). Refuse to settle for less than the previous president, always looking for the next generation to be an improvement over the current generation.
If the American people can keep voting along such lines, and not be fooled by wedge issues (such as abortion and gay marriage) designed for no other reason than to foment chaos, and distract the electorate, this ship can be righted still. If not, down it goes, swallowed by the sea of history.
January 16th, 2008 at 11:18 pmThank you Plunger, there are all sorts of details and names of courageous whistleblowers in the 911 atrocity that have been missed or forgotten. I just did research on Robert Wright and John Roberts and I am outraged.
http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=69984
FBI Whistleblower John Roberts Harassed (corruption at FBI)
Vulgar Betrayal: Federal Bureau of the Insidious
… 18, 2002 — only after the FBI learned Agent Wright would appear the next night … FBI Director Robert Mueller, the men wanted to keep the Wright …
http://www.debbieschlussel.com/columns/column071404.shtm
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/entity.jsp?entity=john_b._roberts_ii
http://www.prisonplanet.com/FBI_agent_I_was_stymied_in_terror_probe.htm
FBI AGENT ROBERT WRIGHT SAYS FBI AGENTS ASSIGNED TO INTELLIGENCE OPERATIONS CONTINUE TO PROTECT TERRORISTS FROM CRIMINAL INVESTIGATIONS AND PROSECUTIONS
http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/roberts/index.html
Where Are the 9/11 Whistleblowers?
Answering a Common Objection to Theories That the September 11 Attacks Were an Inside Job What Response from Authorities Could 9/11 Whistleblowers Expect?
The Case of Sibel Edmonds
The Case of Coleen Rowley
The Case of Kevin Ryan
“Trust Us, We’ll Protect You”
Surely, Reforms Are on the Way
January 17th, 2008 at 6:51 amRuthless People
The Three Stooges hilary et al are owned by AIPAC all three made speeches at this treasonous organization and all have stated that they will bomb Iran at the command of the noahide israeli duel citizenship traitors.
they are owned by the same people that owned the republican candidates and the bush crime family SAME PRODUCT DIFFERENT PACKAGING.
http://xymphora.blogspot.com/
OBAMA IS BOUGHT AND PAID FOR.. billionaire Pritzker family (Zionist Jews out of Chicago) own that nice BOY!
Bulov. Iraqwar.ru
His chief financial supporters are the billionaire Pritzker family (Zionist Jews out of Chicago). Abram Nicholas Pritzker founded the Hyatt hotel chain. The Pritker family is one of the wealthiest in the USA. They’ve owned Braniff Airlines, Royal Caribbean Cruises, and so forth. Obama’s primary bank is Penny Pritzker (Zionist Russian-Ukranian Jew) who is one of the richest women in the USA. Pritzker is a treasurer for the “Real Estate Roundtable,†an AIPAC offshoot in Washington that lobbies for legislation to help commercial landlords. Almost all members of this “Roundtable†are Zionist Jews. S
ince the days of the Rothschilds, when powerful Jews team up to influence a nation, they form a cabal they call a “Roundtable†(their word, not mine). For example, the Jewish bankers that financed World War I and Bolshevism cooperated through an organization they called the “Roundtable.†Thus, when Obama went home to Illinois on February 12, he was met at the airport by 7,300 anti-war protesters who shouted and held signs that read, “Cut the Funding.” Obama immediately departed to attend a personal fundraiser hosted for him by Chicago billionaire Penny Pritzker – see :
http://fairuse.100webcustomers.c…ugh/ trib30.html
Check Susan at No quarter Usa’s latest on where Obama’s $$$ comes from..Ouch
Susan is so fair I know she will target Hillary and Edwards $$$ next
January 17th, 2008 at 6:56 amhttp://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/01/11/obama-his-lobbyists-and-his-cronies/
Take action, visit http://impeachbushcheney.net
January 17th, 2008 at 7:32 amI have created a petition for non US citizens at
http://www.thepetitionsite/petition/537250776
called Global People for Impeachment
and would appreciate any help getting it out to build international pressure.
The accusations ARE serious but Americans are acting like frogs SLOWLY being boiled to death in increasingly hot water! The rest of the world knows that war crimes have been committed. We are all responsible to see that no more crimes against humanity are committed and no retaliation against the US is taken under Geneva. Impeachment is truly necessary.
The email address for the site is: impeach.to.end.war.crimes@gmail.com
Again, thanx for any help.
MY pro impeachment blog (Dump Pelosi!) is at http://www.ladybroadoak.blogspot.com
January 17th, 2008 at 8:21 amhttp://blog.washingtonpost.com/capitol-briefing/2008/01/impeachment_update.html
Impeachment Update!
Here’s a quick update on the chances that the House will impeach President Bush or Vice President Cheney during their last year in office: It’s not happening.
At the end of her weekly press briefing this morning, Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) was asked why she had not supported the burgeoning effort to impeach Cheney and “hold his feet to the fire.”
After joking that she wished she had taken another reporter’s question instead, Pelosi said that she has been opposed to impeachment proceedings since Democrats took power a year ago and remains so today.
“What I had said right from the start is that we’re trying to bring the country together,” Pelosi said. “It was my belief that an impeachment of the Vice President or the President would be very divisive for the country.”
Despite significant support for impeachment – particularly of Cheney – at the grass-roots Democratic level and in the liberal blogosphere, Democratic leaders on the Hill have been relatively quiet on the subject and have shown no appetite for such proceedings. An impeachment resolution against Cheney, introduced last April by Rep. Dennis Kucinich (D-Ohio), currently has 24 co-sponsors.
Pelosi said that she knows there is some support for such a move, but she cautioned that “the prospect for success is so minimal but the damage would be so consequential.”
She acknowledged that she has been criticized for that stance, laughing about running into people at airports wearing buttons calling for impeachment. But, barring some new scandal, she doesn’t sound ready to change her tune. The current administration has exactly a year left in office, and Pelosi seems content to just wait it out.
By Ben Pershing | January 17, 2008; 11:53 AM ET Branch vs. Branch
January 17th, 2008 at 12:29 pmPrevious: The Year Ahead: Can Democrats Govern? |
I think while were at it, we should BOOT Nancy Palosi as well! Shes about the biggest SELLOUT ive seen in a while. She definitely acts like she is in CAHOOTS with the Bush Administration as well. Come on Nancy, stand up for the REASONS THIS NATION WAS FOUNDED UPON AND HELP TO BRING DOWN THE SOURCES OF CORRUPTION IN OUR NATION…DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION.
One more note- After we impeach these tyrants, I think they should take a nice long vacation at Guantanamo Bay.
January 20th, 2008 at 1:56 pm