‘Yes, this is going to be a recession.’
By on Jan 17th, 2008 at 10:17 pm
‘Yes, this is going to be a recession.’
Indicating the “depth of subprime losses and housing woes,” the “Dow Jones industrial average lost more than 300 points” today, “bringing its decline to 15 percent since its peak in October.” “Basically every day now, you have more and more investors leaning toward the camp that yes, this is going to be a recession, and it could be a severe one,” said David Kovacs, a quantitative investment strategist at Turner Investment Partners in Pennsylvania.
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Those tax cuts to the rich cronies are finally trickling down…just like they did for Ronnie Reagan and it is why Bush the first called it voodoo economics. The thugs lie to us, steal from us and leave it to us to clean up. Never elect anyone with a (R) after their names…it means they are incompetent, dishonest, and criminal.
January 17th, 2008 at 10:29 pmit’s not only going to be a recession, we are going to see bank failures, the continued downhill luge run of the dollar, and, when all is said and done, the entire united states banking system will be in the hands of non-u.s. sovereign wealth funds, primarily those in the middle east… buckle up… it’s going to be damn interesting…
January 17th, 2008 at 10:30 pmAnd, yes, I DO take it personally
Nothing to see here, move along….go shopping.
January 17th, 2008 at 10:31 pm/sarcasm
No trolls to tell us how “strong” the Bush economy is?
January 17th, 2008 at 10:53 pmRedd Foxx used to tell about how his wife was always asking for money….”Everytime I turn around she wants ten dollars for this and twenty dollars for that, forty dollars here and fifty dollars there.”
A friend asked him, “What’s she doing with all that money Foxx?”
Redd answered, “Hell, I don’t know, I ain’t give her any yet.”
If only congress could be that way with Bush!
My repuglican friend complains today how his wife saves too much money buying things they really don’t need but she couldn’t pass up because they were 50% off.
January 17th, 2008 at 11:01 pmCall me cynical, but I believe a recession is what is needed to reset priorities. Unfortunately the recession will hit those who least need to learn the lesson hardest…
Business, and the government needs to learn that unlimited growth is not only impossible, but bad for the planet.
P.S. Long time lurker (1 year+) on the sight who will try to be more involved. Although this is definitely preaching to the choir. :)
January 17th, 2008 at 11:01 pmquestion: i heard advice to put any money into short term investments – CDs or … what’s the other? – mutual funds?
market somethings? (yea, you can tell i’m up on this stuff)…
the actual question is – when they say “lower interest rates”,
does that include those rates also? not just loan interest rates?
anyone? … am i making sense? …help, please…
January 17th, 2008 at 11:01 pmpaper…or plastic?
January 17th, 2008 at 11:05 pmI was going to shop, then I noticed the car had no gas, so I bought some gas and drove back home.
January 17th, 2008 at 11:05 pm#8
January 17th, 2008 at 11:07 pmGenerally none of those things you mentioned are traditionally “short term” investments. My suggestion would be to look into real goods futures or foreign currency. It takes some effort to find the right combo, but I think that offers the best option now.
paper…or plastic?
Comment by Briseadh na Faire —
When I get asked that I say outloud, to myself, a barrel of oil or a tree,a barrel of oil or a tree…..Just put the stuff in the basket and I’ll roll it to the cars trunk.
January 17th, 2008 at 11:09 pmMy suggestion would be to look into real goods futures or foreign currency -Stovob
Switchgrass!
January 17th, 2008 at 11:10 pmThe current and future state of the economy has little to do with recent and other short-term “things” like so-called “sub-prime” mortgages, which are nothing more than small pieces in the big puzzle.
The problem is 15 years or so of so called “Free Trade” policies which had literally killed the manufacturing base in the U.S. — what made us the economic superpower in the first place. In short, selling out America for short term corporate gains. That’s it in a nutshell.
There are no decent paying jobs left in this country, stupid!
That’s what this oncoming economic disaster is all about. Period, paragraph.
Interestingly enough, Ross Perot was the only public figure to predict this all quite accurately back during the NAFTA/GAFF debates, and when Al Gore, of all people attacked him and defended NAFTA on national television. Nobody seems to remember THAT Al Gore.
It’s the lack of decent paying jobs, stupid!
Cufford
January 17th, 2008 at 11:13 pmFresno, CA
This was predicted in 2001:
“A considerable body of economic research suggests that oil price fluctuations have figured prominently in national economic activity since World War II. In fact, rising oil prices preceded eight of the nine post-WWII recessions.”
http://www.dallasfed.org/research/papers/2001/wp0102.pdf
January 17th, 2008 at 11:18 pme>Switchgrass!
Comment by Xisithrus — January 17, 2008 @ 11:10 pm
I can make a mean switchgrass stew. :)
January 17th, 2008 at 11:20 pmIt’s the lack of decent paying jobs, stupid!
Cufford
Free Market ideology is basically a road to communism, dictatorship or monarchy, whereas progressives are not for communism, dictatorship or monarchy whatsoever.
Thus, I, see a need for moderation in all things!!
January 17th, 2008 at 11:21 pmI can make a mean switchgrass stew. :) -Stovob
Never heard of that, please continue.
January 17th, 2008 at 11:22 pmthanks… would it matter if i’m talking about small sums of money…
under $5000 say…
and, do i sound like someone who know what you mean by
January 17th, 2008 at 11:23 pm“real goods futures or foreign currency”? (well, currency, i know)…
Comment by Saint Augustine — January 17, 2008 @ 11:01 pm
Yeah, what is it the retailers tell us when they are running items on sale?
“The more you buy, the more you save.”
And, the more you spend.
January 17th, 2008 at 11:30 pmslow night… i’m here during commercial breaks from the daily show…
colbert on now…
January 17th, 2008 at 11:31 pmComment by Xisithrus — January 17, 2008 @ 11:21 pm
Free Market ideology is basically a road to communism, dictatorship or monarchy, whereas progressives are not for communism, dictatorship or monarchy whatsoever.
Thus, I, see a need for moderation in all things!!
**************
I have no idea what this means in terms of what I stated.
Is this saying that there is some halfway point between corporate greed and what’s in the best needs of the people at large?
Labels such as “progressives” means nothing. No more than “neocon” or “conservative”, etc. Just labels.
Bottom line…either you believe in economic policies which benefit the people at large…the community…or those of the wealthy and corporate interests. Labels have no loyalty to either.
Cufford
January 17th, 2008 at 11:32 pmFresno, CA
In 1983, 16.5% of private sector workers were unionized.
In 1999, it was down to 9.4%
In 1983, 21.1% of wage and salary workers were unionized.
In 1999, it was down to 13.9%.
http://www.allcountries.org/uscensus/712_labor_union_membership_by_sector.html
The plight of the American worker has declined with the decline of American Unions.
Over the past 20 years, the American people has fairly consistently voted for measures against their own best interests. They have voted for politicians and measures that sharply curtail union activities and strengths. These same politicians enact legislation that further strengthens Corporate interests and tax breaks for the wealthy class.
The Bush Administration is the model of success for Corporate America and the Ruling Class. Their one un-met goal: the privatization of Social Security: the release of the billions of dollars held in the Social Security trust into the coffers of Corporate America, where it too will disappear.
January 17th, 2008 at 11:35 pmComment by Cufford — January 17, 2008 @ 11:32 pm
Sure it does, free market ideology states that costs [employee pay] must be as small as possible for the greatest profit.
I think, as you, that ideology harms America more than it helps it, thus, we mjst moderate.
January 17th, 2008 at 11:36 pmThis is kind of a repost, but it is newsworthy IMO.
This week my wife enrolled in an American History class at the local community college; it’s an Internet class.
One of the first assignments was to post a message in the discussion area of the class’s web site, in part to let the students practice uploading info.
The assignment was to name who you thought was the best president and write a brief message about it. I just read through the posts uploaded so far, and out of about 25 students, no one picked Bush (either Jr. or Daddy). A majority of the votes were split between Lincoln and…drumroll please…CLINTON. Yeah, baby!
One student listed Reagan, one listed Teddy Roosevelt, and one listed a tie between Clinton and FDR. This is kind of surprising considering the students live in a Republican-heavy area of our state.
January 17th, 2008 at 11:39 pmAs Economy takes center stage
What Republican Candidate would be best for economic prosperity?
http://www.youpolls.com/details.asp?pid=1574
.
January 17th, 2008 at 11:40 pmAs a personal exercise, I keep a graph of the Dow, S&P 500 and NASDAQ for each president from recent years. What I find interesting is that for the 2-term presidents (Reagan, Carter, Clinton, Bush), Shrub finished his first term with a worse showing than any other 2-termer.
At the end of 2 terms, all had a net gain. Reagan’s first term wasn’t so good, but he picked up towards the end of his first term and his 2nd term was rather good.
But Shrub’s 2nd so far ?
January 17th, 2008 at 11:41 pmAgain…Xisthrus…
I have no idea what your point is.
You seem to be agreeing with me, and then advocating…what?
What does “moderating” mean here?
Something in-between total greed and total non-greed?
And again…what do labels such as “progressive” have to do with anything? Such labels mean nothing. It’s the specific policy that matters and not all members of any self-defined group such as “progressives” agree on anything.
So again…what’s your point here…please!
With all due respect, you still have not stated it in any clear and understandable language, what you are talking about.
Cufford
January 17th, 2008 at 11:41 pmFresno, CA
We talk about a lot of issues here, but the current state of the economy is seldom discussed.
By next year, the economy will be issue one – supplanting Iraq (except that we can no longer afford it) and all of the other hot button topics we currently discuss.
We are headed for some deep financial doodoo.
If the economy continues its rapid decline, by August there will be an opening for the candidate with the best fiscal package – one of the stragglers could potentially move to the front of the pack late in the campaign.
I’ll bet Bushco thinks we’ll forget their crimes when we’re living hand-to-mouth.
I hope we don’t.
January 17th, 2008 at 11:45 pmIt’s the lack of decent paying jobs, stupid!
Cufford
Okay, what is the cause of low paying jobs? And what type of social order would that, you think, result in?
January 17th, 2008 at 11:45 pmComment by Cufford — January 17, 2008 @ 11:41 pm
You’ve never heard the phrase “moderation in all things?”
January 17th, 2008 at 11:48 pmFailing to answer a question, but rather to ask another unrelated question (which, by the way, I already answered in my original post) instead, is a classic example of “I don’t know what I’m talking about and I’m just debating you”.
I’m done with that.
I revert to what I originally said, and I think most people will agree with.
“it’s the lack of decent paying jobs, stupid!”
If you can’t understand that, and the causes for it, then you’re really not in your right forum.
Cufford
January 17th, 2008 at 11:50 pmFresno, CA
“it’s the lack of decent paying jobs, stupid!â€
If you can’t understand that, and the causes for it, then you’re really not in your right forum.
Cufford
Fresno, CA
Comment by Cufford — January 17, 2008 @ 11:50 pm
What’s your solution?
January 17th, 2008 at 11:52 pm“it’s the lack of decent paying jobs, stupid!†-Cufford
I agree.
What I said was not in disagreeance, which perhaps you see it as.
I said we must moderate [IE raise wages, dont be greedy etc]
January 17th, 2008 at 11:54 pmMy point is, I don’t know which statistics was accurate, -Bog (O)
Lies, damn lies and statistics -Mark Twain
January 17th, 2008 at 11:55 pm“Comment by ralph the wonder llama — January 17, 2008 @ 10:53 pmâ€
I’m not sure I understand the point here. Sounded like” you can’t believe anyone, so you can’t believe in anyone. And, to question anything is to give in to fear, by quoting the “fear itself” quote.
What did I miss here?
Please elaborate.
Cufford
January 17th, 2008 at 11:56 pmFresno, CA
if we, I THINK, dont moderate [wages etc] we will become not a democracy but one of three possible things; dictatorship, monarchy, communism
January 17th, 2008 at 11:58 pmBartlebee?
January 18th, 2008 at 12:00 amComment by Zooey — January 17, 2008 @ 11:52 pm
What’s your solution?
*******************
Easy…restore pre-NAFTA tarrifs which funded this country for decades before income tax was even invented. That keeps jobs in THIS country.
It’s very easy…do you understand what tarrifs are? Do you understand what they do and what their effect is?
Do you understand what the ramifications of eliminating tarrifs (NAFTA) has wrought on this country?
That was my point with the ‘it’s the lack of manufacturing jobs’ was all about.
Did you not understand that point?
Really…the economy is about jobs…good paying jobs…jobs that pay living wages. Not service, minimum wage jobs that are currently prevailing since nearly all manufacturing jobs are gone now.
Cufford
January 18th, 2008 at 12:02 amFresno, CA
…they merely used the stats as a prelude to the pre-concieved notion that we are heading for a recession…something that isn’t certain in the least.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 17, 2008 @ 11:53 pm
Oh, it’s certain. It’s always certain if repigs are in office for more than one term, always.
January 18th, 2008 at 12:03 amReally…the economy is about jobs…good paying jobs…jobs that pay living wages. Not service, minimum wage jobs that are currently prevailing since nearly all manufacturing jobs are gone now.
Cufford
Fresno, CA
Comment by Cufford — January 18, 2008 @ 12:02 am
Is there a reason you’re being so confrontational? It was a simple question.
I don’t think you’ll find anyone disagreeing with what you said — except O. Bigfoot.
January 18th, 2008 at 12:04 amThat keeps jobs in THIS country. -Cufford
I understand NAFTA and CAFTA but these have little to do with outsourcing to China and India, So I agree with what your saying but not so much as NAFTA and CAFTA being the ‘main’ culprits of outsourcing.
January 18th, 2008 at 12:05 amXisithrus…
With all due respect…I think you have a point to make, but are failing to make it.
You still haven’t stated what ‘moderating’ means to you.
What does that mean?
Again…I ask…is this something in between total greed and total not greed? I just have no clue what you mean.
What’s an example?
What is moderating wages? What is your solution? And again what do labels like “progressive”, which you used in your original reply to my post, have to do with your point of view?
I’m just curious. I don’t understand what you’re trying to say.
Cufford
January 18th, 2008 at 12:07 amFresno, CA
Wages should rightly be moderated by the free market.
Better yet, wages should be moderated by entreprenuerial spirit.
Comment by O. Bigfoot
You think you cant be replaced by a chinese man?
January 18th, 2008 at 12:07 amXisithrus…
With all due respect…I think you have a point to make, but are failing to make it. -Cufford
I do, but you are failing, perhaps, to see it.
January 18th, 2008 at 12:09 amXisithrus said:
“NAFTA and CAFTA…these have little to do with outsourcing to China and India”
WHAT???
WHAT???
WHAT???
Did you really say this?
Somebody has no clue what these so-called “free trade agreements” are all about.
Thanks…
Cufford
January 18th, 2008 at 12:10 amAgain…I ask…is this something in between total greed and total not greed? I just have no clue what you mean.
What’s an example?
You said it yourself, low wages. Low wages dont stave of recession, they create it. Wages must be moderate so people can afford to buy things which keeps pur econiomy humming. Outsourcing jobs to China makes for great profit [unmoderated] but harms America in the long run.
January 18th, 2008 at 12:13 amYes…Xisithrus…I don’t get your point. Perhaps it’s just me.
Bigfoot says “Wages should rightly be moderated by the free market”.
Okay…I give up. Some people aren’t getting things here.
“Free Market” means killing strong economies in favor of weak economies. Lowering higher level of living to equalize low levels of living.
Okay…if you believe this…then you’re a “free market” advocate.
That’s fine. I respect that, even if I don’t agree with it.
Cufford
January 18th, 2008 at 12:13 amFresno, CA
Somebody has no clue what these so-called “free trade agreements†are all about. Thanks…Cufford
They are about Canada and Mexico, not India, China etc…
January 18th, 2008 at 12:15 amThat’s fine. I respect that, even if I don’t agree with it.
Cufford
Fresno, CA
Comment by Cufford — January 18, 2008 @ 12:13 am
You must be new here. Bigfoot is a completely moronic “don’t worry, be happy” troll.
January 18th, 2008 at 12:16 am“Free Market†means disparity.
January 18th, 2008 at 12:17 amOkay Xisithrus, it appears that you agree with me and my original statement here. And so I still have no idea what your point was, or is.
Wages are it. Tarrifs are related to that. NAFTA elimiated those tarrifs so that corporations could fire American workers and move manufacturing out of this country and profit from that move.
My solution…as asked for above and I responded to was…bring back those tarrifs.
Simple.
Still…you and others arguing me have not come to this table with any comparable thoughts and solutions.
Just rhetorical arguments with no definitions or solutions.
Cufford
January 18th, 2008 at 12:18 amFresno, CA
Kiss your 401ks bye bye.
Buy stock in Alpo, the new senior’s reduced caloric diet.
January 18th, 2008 at 12:19 amThe new American Century world was to be led by the champion of free trade everywhere, which also uniquely benefited the strongest economy in the early postwar years, the United States. It was a brilliant, if fatally flawed concept. As State Department planning head, George F. Kennan wrote in a confidential internal memo in 1948, “We have about 50% of the world’s wealth but only 6.3% of its population…Our real task in the coming period is to devise a pattern of relationships which will permit us to maintain this position of disparity without positive detriment to our national security.â€
January 18th, 2008 at 12:19 amYes…you’re right. I’m new here and have no idea who these people, and their positions are all about.
But I’m quickly learning.
Thanks…Zooey
Cufford
January 18th, 2008 at 12:21 amFresno, CA
If you want a President who actually has the knowledge to make sound economic decisions, Romney is the guy.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 18, 2008 @ 12:19 am
Romney is a dumbass, who doesn’t know what he stands for from one day to the next.
Oh…..no wonder you like him.
January 18th, 2008 at 12:22 amso… nobody knows?
i thought it was a relatively easy question (8) (&19)…
g’nite all…
January 18th, 2008 at 12:22 amThe Free Market isn’t free. Regulation will be absolutely necessary until Republicans are all jailed. That’s the way it is. They lie, cheat and steal with every breath, and can’t be trusted with our money or security. That’s been proven to a fare-thee-well this past 7 years.
January 18th, 2008 at 12:23 amOkay Xisithrus, it appears that you agree with me and my original statement here. And so I still have no idea what your point was, or is.
If I agree with you, and you realise that I didn’t disagree with you, but extrapolated upon it, see that as, perhaps, disagreement?
My point is this; We have, as humanity, tried tyrannym tried empire, tried dictatorship, tried monarchy, tried theocracy, tried communism… and none have led to real peace for 5000 years.
So, I can only say we must moderate.
January 18th, 2008 at 12:23 amMitt Romney is a businessman. He knows how to create jobs, he knows how to make payroll. If you want a President who actually has the knowledge to make sound economic decisions, Romney is the guy.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 18, 2008 @ 12:19 am
he’s another failure, like Bush, and a whack-job. if you want another 9/11, vote Republican.
January 18th, 2008 at 12:24 amYes…this has nothing to do with “Democrats vs. Republicans”. Not at all.
It’s fascism. Corporate interests have bought off our federal government…on both sides of the aisle.
As I think I mentioned, Al Gore was the Clinton Administration point man in favor of NAFTA (that Al Gore that current Democrats don’t want to remember).
In short…our federal government is completely corrupted by money…and on both sides of the aisle. Neither party cares a shit about the common people.
The whole system is corrupt…period.
That’s the problem.
Cufford
January 18th, 2008 at 12:24 amFresno, CA
Romney is the guy.
Bush was supposed to be an MBA as well.
January 18th, 2008 at 12:24 amnteresting that the Clintons are tied to Chinese money scandals almost constantly, eh?
yes, and even more interesting that every one of the “scandals” turns out to be more republican lies, with nothing behind them. So much for your much-vaunted personal reponsibility, which is now non-existent.
January 18th, 2008 at 12:26 amComment by O. Bigfoot — January 18, 2008 @ 12:19 am
And another thing, I don’t give a shit when it all started — it was damn wrong, no matter who started it up, and it needs to be fixed. You get all satisfied that it was a Democrat who committed that particular f_ck up, but fail to realize that ALL of us are affected — not just one party or another. That’s the fatal flaw with right wingnuts — y’all only govern for yourselves, not the whole country — and you screw up this country every single time you have power for any length of time.
January 18th, 2008 at 12:26 amIf the market were free bernanke wouldn’t be asking the goevernment for a 100billion dollars bailout.
January 18th, 2008 at 12:27 amGet real, man. Or perhaps just think a little.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 18, 2008 @ 12:25 am
Try that yourself, for a change. Rich owners would be nothing withoput workers, and shouldn’t be allowed to steal from their workforce. protecting owners from treating workers fairly is a throwback to royalty, which we fought a revolution to overthrow. it’s getting close to time for another one.
January 18th, 2008 at 12:28 amWe have a war criminal president at the helm who keeps dumping billions into a never ending failed war in order to shock and subdue the american economy making it impossible for this nation to maintain its sovereign status. In other words making it dependent on other nations for its survival. They’ll make it look like they’re doing opposite by introducing an “economic stimulus plan” which is just a band-aid covering a huge deep wound. What they want? CHAOS followed by SHOCK! Once the nation is shocked they will be capable of forcing a NEW ORDER without opposition or resistance. Just like the planes that hit the World Trade Center towers. Just like that, they’ll crash the economy.
January 18th, 2008 at 12:28 amoh, one last…
romney? sound economic decisions?
January 18th, 2008 at 12:29 amyea – for other corporatists…
yeesh…
Outsourcing started under Reagan, as the fall of America did. Clinton was stupidly trying to be bi-partisan, mistaking republicans for humans. He learned his lesson. Bush immediately ramped up all of the errors of the previous 4 terms, and made everything worse, and continues to weaken the USA. Want another 9/11? Vote Republican.
January 18th, 2008 at 12:30 amNeither of which I am convinced of.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 18, 2008 @ 12:29 am
Proud of your ignorance, ever the wingnut tool.
January 18th, 2008 at 12:30 am” I don’t recall the economy being a huge issue during 2000 or 2004.”
Well, with successful terrorist attacks being allowed by Bush, followed by losing all the wars he was involved in, you really didn’t get to hear how bacly he was managing the economy. Of course you don’t recall it.
January 18th, 2008 at 12:32 amnd that the President has much control over it anyway. Neither of which I am convinced of.
Comment by O. Bigfoot
He has control over the FED which approved of this security ivestment vehicle and over the rate of inflation.
January 18th, 2008 at 12:36 amInteresting…that those who want to take “sides” and blame one party or president over another…are completely missing the point here.
Treason has no party affiliation people. It’s just about money, and human greed. That’s it.
It affects all sides.
This isn’t about Democrats vs. Republicans. If you think it is, then you’re regretfully ignorant, naive and uninformed.
Cufford
January 18th, 2008 at 12:36 amFresno, CA
This isn’t about Democrats vs. Republicans. If you think it is, then you’re regretfully ignorant, naive and uninformed.
Cufford
Fresno, CA
Comment by Cufford — January 18, 2008 @ 12:36 am
This is no longer about political parties, there’s very little difference anyway — it’s about the ruling class against the rest of us.
January 18th, 2008 at 12:40 amInteresting…that those who want to take “sides†and blame one party or president over another…are completely missing the point here. -Cufford
I have said this for some time.
Two like factions operating one economic powerhouse.
January 18th, 2008 at 12:40 amThis isn’t about Democrats vs. Republicans. If you think it is, then you’re regretfully ignorant, naive and uninformed.
Cufford
Fresno, CA
Comment by Cufford — January 18, 2008 @ 12:36 am
Well, aren’t you the smart one. Sorry, but treason is owned by the right. You’re regretfully full of yourself, but thanks for letting us in on the joke.
January 18th, 2008 at 12:41 amThe only revolution we need in the United States is an economic one, with a return to individual creativity and entreprenurial spirit.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 18, 2008 @ 12:41 am
how naive. You still aren’t awake enough to see that the separation between government and corporation has all but disappeared. Individual creativity and entrepeneurial spirit are the very antithesis of the fascist machine you have allowed to be put in place. Until tht machine is dismantled, the real America is strait-jacketed. Like you should be.
January 18th, 2008 at 12:44 amWhy does “the right” insist on giving Bill Clinton God-like qualities? The export of manufacturing first became alarming when the U.S. steel industry all but collapsed. It was given another hit when we sold off automotive and electronic technology. All of this was long before the Clinton administration.
Did Bill stop the bleeding? No. But he didn’t start it either.
January 18th, 2008 at 12:44 amWell Big (O) Your finally getting it.
January 18th, 2008 at 12:56 amI understand NAFTA and CAFTA but these have little to do with outsourcing to China and India, So I agree with what your saying but not so much as NAFTA and CAFTA being the ‘main’ culprits of outsourcing.
Comment by Xisithrus — January 18, 2008 @ 12:05 am
Import Tariffs will increase the price of imported goods. This used to make it more profitable to manufacture in the US, and was one of the reasons our industries used to be the most innovative in the world.
Now most of the factories are in China, India and Taiwan. Assembled in Mexico. Then sold to American consumers at a whopping profit.
IBM sold their computer division to China, if you didn’t already know.
If you buy a Thinkpad, you are paying the wages of Chinese factory workers and Indian tech support. Not American workers.
Heck, 90% of the technology manufacturing sector is now in Asia.
January 18th, 2008 at 1:00 amGood post Wayne. I agree.
January 18th, 2008 at 1:02 amI can make a mean switchgrass stew. :) -Stovob
Never heard of that, please continue.
Comment by Xisithrus — January 17, 2008 @ 11:22 pm
Didn’t you see Shrek, X? Although he uses swamp rats or something like that.
January 18th, 2008 at 1:03 amComment by Lefty Patriot
“Well, aren’t you the smart one. Sorry, but treason is owned by the right. You’re regretfully full of yourself, but thanks for letting us in on the joke.”
Do you really believe that one side of the aisle is any different from the other?
If so, then you unfortunately don’t understand the reality of our universe…that we all live in.
Of course, those on “your side” are happy to see you defend “them” and attack “them”.
If only you understood that these labels mean nothing and that it’s the policies themselves…greedy ones…that effect us all.
And that both sides of the aisle have been bought and paid for by such interests.
I think you’ve got a lot to learn there fellow human being.
Cufford
January 18th, 2008 at 1:05 amFresno, CA
The only revolution we need in the United States is an economic one, with a return to individual creativity and entreprenurial spirit.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 18, 2008 @ 12:41 am
I rarely agree with you but I do agree with this one.
The decline of our economy started with the exporting of American jobs, and it continues today.
The Corps have been transforming a nation that was once one of the most innovative in the world into a nation of burger slingers and janitors serving the executive elite.
January 18th, 2008 at 1:08 amIt is going to be worse than a recession. Many economists believe the signs are the worst seen since 1929. Put your money under your mattress, folks.
January 18th, 2008 at 1:09 am“The only revolution we need in the United States is an economic one, with a return to individual creativity and entreprenurial spirit.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 18, 2008 @ 12:41 am”
You don’t get it, do you? We have had trickle down for so long if these creative, entrepenurial people would already have done it (if they worked for large corporations).
January 18th, 2008 at 1:10 amDidn’t you see Shrek, X? Although he uses swamp rats or something like that.
Comment by Shayne
Naw, thats my friend Gladys Kravitz =)
January 18th, 2008 at 1:11 am“I rarely agree with you but I do agree with this one.
The decline of our economy started with the exporting of American jobs, and it continues today.
The Corps have been transforming a nation that was once one of the most innovative in the world into a nation of burger slingers and janitors serving the executive elite.
Comment by Wayne — January 18, 2008 @ 1:08 am”
Wayne, true entrepenurial spirit comes from small businesses. The Wal-Martization has destroyed that spirit (if not the spirit, the reality). All hail China.
January 18th, 2008 at 1:13 amaMny economists believe the signs are the worst seen since 1929. -Sabyen
I think they call that a Kondratieff cycle
January 18th, 2008 at 1:17 am“My ability to earn is entirely controlled by me, and how hard I want to work, and how much time I want to put into it.”
What???? Are you stoned? Can you HONESTLY tell me small businesses have the same opportunities now than they did in the 1950’s. Warning, if you say yes, you are a moron.
January 18th, 2008 at 1:18 amWayne, true entrepenurial spirit comes from small businesses. The Wal-Martization has destroyed that spirit (if not the spirit, the reality). All hail China.
Comment by Sabyen91 — January 18, 2008 @ 1:13 am
Not just Wally-world. Its our whole economy.
You can hardly find any prepared food in the grocery store that does not have ingredients imported from China.
The same factories that sold ingredients that made the poison dog food and poison toothpaste.
Our whole economy is trash, thanks to the Reagan deregulation and Voodoo Economics that are still sending shockwaves through our economy.
January 18th, 2008 at 1:20 amI think Big (O) is looking for a visit from the IRS =)
January 18th, 2008 at 1:20 am“And if I can do it, anybody can.”
Comment by O. Bigfoot
Another guy born on third, and thinks he hit a triple.
January 18th, 2008 at 1:20 amIt’s going to be a DEPRESSION not a RECESSION.
Prepare accordingly.
January 18th, 2008 at 1:21 amI don’t buy the Kondratieff cycle. If the government would buy into Keynes theories we would never have a depression…but neither party ever will because that would make them seem politically unaware as they would support tax hikes certain times and tax cuts other times. I wish the American people weren’t so stupid.
January 18th, 2008 at 1:21 amAnd if I can do it, anybody can. -Big (O)
But, Big O, I am a Jet Mechanic, do you own any large jets?
January 18th, 2008 at 1:22 amComment by Sabyen91 — January 18, 2008 @ 1:18 am
Delivery boys, even self-employed ones, can’t be expected to grasp the nuances of international trade. But, they are always in demand.
January 18th, 2008 at 1:23 amI don’t buy the Kondratieff cycle. -Sabyen
Thats cool.
But, lets say we have fixed inflation of 4.5% [which the Fed strives for] at what point does that inflation become a problem?
January 18th, 2008 at 1:25 am“THE BUSH RECESSION.”
Don’t like recessions, but at least I like the SOUND of that one.
January 18th, 2008 at 1:25 amJust another disaster on George’s watch…nothing to see here, folks…
And if I can do it, anybody can.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 18, 2008 @ 1:16 am
I can program machine language on the fly.
If I can do it, can anyone?
Not everyone has the same talents.
January 18th, 2008 at 1:25 am“Not just Wally-world. Its our whole economy.”
You are right. I was just simplifying it. It is something most people can understand. Wal-Mart buys cheap crap from China (from American companies paying 40 cents per hour). So, we are paying cheap prices for Wal-Mart garage but those low prices are actually not good for us. It is just a precursor for us to make even less real money than we do now.
January 18th, 2008 at 1:26 amOkay Big (O) lets say the world becomes as you and does the same job.
What would happen?
January 18th, 2008 at 1:26 amBig (O) would be a communist?
January 18th, 2008 at 1:27 am“But, lets say we have fixed inflation of 4.5% [which the Fed strives for] at what point does that inflation become a problem?
Comment by Xisithrus — January 18, 2008 @ 1:25 am”
Actually, I didn’t mean it doesn’t happen. It just shouldn’t if people would follow Keynes instead of Freidman. And inflation is at its highest level in 17 years. Nobel economists are blaming Greenspan and the Fed.
January 18th, 2008 at 1:27 am…and Bush tax cuts for the rich.
January 18th, 2008 at 1:28 amComment by Sabyen91 — January 18, 2008 @ 1:27
I understand, but at somepoint inflation must be reset
January 18th, 2008 at 1:30 am“And inflation is at its highest level in 17 years. Nobel economists are blaming Greenspan and the Fed.”
Comment by Sabyen91
Americans’ dismal savings rate shares some responsibility.
January 18th, 2008 at 1:30 amPeople are still willing to pay for superior product, -Big (O)
You call toxic toothpaste and lead painted toys from China superior?
January 18th, 2008 at 1:32 amThats Free Market idiotology.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 18, 2008 @ 1:29 am
So your wealth will get you into heaven?
January 18th, 2008 at 1:34 amI know this to be true. Like I have said before, if I can do it, anybody can.
Don’t allow the naysayers to make your decisions for you, and don’t let other’s misconceptions control your course of action.
Comment by O. Bigfoot
Have you ever been reduced by circumstance to owning simply the clothes on your back?
Ever slept in a ditch – by necessity?
You haven’t started from scratch to build a business. Because you have never been reduced to scratch.
January 18th, 2008 at 1:34 am“People are still willing to pay for superior product, legendary customer service, and trust. If you can provide something unique in today’s USA, you have the same opportunity Americans have had in the United States from it’s very beginning”
Yeah, lead paint is superior.
January 18th, 2008 at 1:35 amBig O = Third baser.
January 18th, 2008 at 1:35 am“Americans’ dismal savings rate shares some responsibility.
Comment by barfly — January 18, 2008 @ 1:30 am”
Actually a poor savings rate is good during certain economies. If we have a poor savings rate during deflation is good. During inflation it is bad. So I guess we have that going for us now.
January 18th, 2008 at 1:37 am“I have gone into business for myself on three seperate occasion. Once at 18. A traditional retail store. Failed.”
And how did an 18-year-old afford product, rent, insurance, advertising, and utilities? Have some financial help?
January 18th, 2008 at 1:37 amNo. But everyone can nurture whatever talents they have, and if they are creative enough, utilize them. -Big (O)
If I should knock on your door, hungry, would you turn me away?
January 18th, 2008 at 1:39 amComment by O. Bigfoot — January 18, 2008 @ 1:16 am
My ability to earn is entirely controlled by me, and how hard I want to work, and how much time I want to put into it.
5 years, eh? Not bad!
Come this July 1, I will be in business for 40 years. Although I do all the things you mention as well, I recognize that it is my community that I serve. Without that community and their willingness to be part of that community I would not have been able to do the things I have done over these 40 years. In short, there is more to my success than me and all my “incredible” doings.
There is more to life than your own selfish interest. And that is what I find so sad about your posts. They smack of shortsighted selfishness. Perhaps you studied too much Anne Rand.
January 18th, 2008 at 1:41 am“No. But everyone can nurture whatever talents they have, and if they are creative enough, utilize them.”
Like the talent of being born into the “right” family?
January 18th, 2008 at 1:42 amCome on over. -Big (O)
Thats not an answer
January 18th, 2008 at 1:45 amBig O, sleeping in your car is nothing. Try sleeping in a ditch in an unfamiliar city, because you’ve just lost the only job you could find because of no transportation. Add to the mix the fact that you have no relatives to aid you, just a dogged determination.
You’re a third-baser who “roughed it” for a little while. I’m not impressed in you, or your story.
January 18th, 2008 at 1:50 amI didn’t do it again until I was nearly 39, and I’m finally making a living working for myself.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 18, 2008 @ 1:35 am
I made custom silver jewelry for years, before the market busted. Still make pieces as a hobby and still sell some.
I have done several other personal ventures in my 49 years, some went south, some I just got intellectually tired of.
I now work in the computer technology field for a corporation, making a pretty good living. I also do volunteer help with the homeless, donate school supplies for students and teachers,etc. to try to give back to society. I am firm believer in trying to make society better for everyone. The biggest shame of our system is that we have citizens, including veterans that have to sleep under highway underpasses. Some people need help. Poverty is caused by our top-heavy economy
January 18th, 2008 at 1:51 amI’d still be interested in Big O’s explanation of how an 18 year old could afford to open a retail store, with all the attendant costs. he still hasn’t answered if he used a little family grease to get the cart rolling.
January 18th, 2008 at 1:53 amRegardless of what you believe, people do have a hand in making their own circumstances.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 18, 2008 @ 1:43 am
But sometimes they need a hand to help make their own circumstances, to get them out of circumstances not of their own making.
January 18th, 2008 at 1:56 amC’mon, Bootstrap Bigfoot, give us the skinny on your store. Did you sell your delicious young self to get the scratch?
January 18th, 2008 at 1:58 amRegardless of what you believe, people do have a hand in making their own circumstances.
Comment by O. Bigfoot
Yet you speak of YOUR belief
January 18th, 2008 at 1:59 amResponding to Katy (comment 8) When the market is as volatile as it is right now, and when the trend is lower, as it is right now, the best investment you can have is cash. Short term CD’s (certificate of deposit) is cash that earns interest. Mutual funds are stocks and they will follow the stock market, which at the moment is down. The Wall Street indexes, such as the S&P and the DJ Industrial are leading indicators. They are heading down. The employment indexes are lagging indicators. Pay attention to the S&P and when it starts to increase, then it means the market believes the recession is over, that’s when you can select a good balanced mutual fund. But until the market decides that earnings will be lower because the U.S. consumers will not be spending much money because unemployment is high, stay out of the stock market.
January 18th, 2008 at 1:59 amsorry, too many comments to read, so I hope I’m not echoing somebody else.
January 18th, 2008 at 2:00 amThis was an in your face conclusion when the feds upped the interest rates
Anyone with a brain could see it coming.
Evidently the fed has no brain.
How is it that you, Big (O), tell others not to believe in their beliefs yet you preach your belief as truth?
January 18th, 2008 at 2:03 amPS to #146
January 18th, 2008 at 2:04 amThe only thing keeping the economy up was housing. Everybody knew that but the fed.
When they kept bumping the rates they kill it.
So they killed the goose, who cares?
I do, you do. We all do.
It’s a lesson in how much we depend on responsible government
Someone named ‘TC-12′ up above said “THE BUSH RECESSION”.
Wrong; this is the SECOND Busch recession.
∞
January 18th, 2008 at 2:09 amHowever, if I had used “family greaseâ€, what would it matter to you? I would have been smart to utilize it.
While coming on here and making the assertion that just because you did it, it’s possible for anyone to do it. How many similar businesses fail in a given year? Were you simply smarter, and better positioned than they? More likely, luck played a large factor in your success (and in their failure). So simply touting a “anyone can do it” mantra is hyperbolic nonsense. And judging by the defensive tone, I’d say you in fact had large dollops of family grease – something that I, as an adoptee whose adoptive parents died before I reached adulthood – could only imagine. When I hear third-basers come around and act like they did it all themselves – I have to laugh. Whether you will acknowledge it or not – you’re from the priviledged side of the tracks, bub.
January 18th, 2008 at 2:14 amBecause the truths I espouse are truths as I know them.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 18, 2008 @ 2:08 am
You should aways question those established “truths”.
When you are hidebound by your own beliefs and have stopped looking for answers, thinking you now “know it all”, you have come all the way around to the position of knowing nothing.
January 18th, 2008 at 2:19 am“I had a job!
You should try it sometime.”
Comment by O. Bigfoot
I’ve been working and (paying taxes) since I was ten.
Third-baser.
January 18th, 2008 at 2:19 amOops. That should be “… (and paying taxes)…”
January 18th, 2008 at 2:20 amI had a job!
You should try it sometime.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 18, 2008 @ 2:12 am
And you wonder why people attack you…..
January 18th, 2008 at 2:20 ambiggie, are you a third baser?
oh no!
January 18th, 2008 at 2:30 amExcept back in the 80’s or 90’s they were called VARIABLE rate mortgages.
Same channel.
Comment by justasking — January 18, 2008 @ 2:24 am
Yeah, Bush Sr. inherited that one from Reagan’s economic madness.
January 18th, 2008 at 2:31 amIn fact, it’s the liberal mantra.
I also have the right to not feel sorry for you in the least.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 18, 2008 @ 2:30 am
Yep, you have the right to be an a$$hat and talk trash too. And you make good use of it at times. Like this post.
January 18th, 2008 at 2:33 ambiggie i don’t know how you can tend to business when you spend eight hours a day here goofing off.
c’mon put away that keyboard and do a little work for a change!
January 18th, 2008 at 2:36 amComment by O. Bigfoot — January 18, 2008 @ 1:52 am
You may find me selfish, and you have the right to feel that way if you wish. Honestly, it doesn’t matter to me. You don’t put the food in my kids mouths or the clothes on their backs.
And with each reply, you announce that it is only you and your family that matter. Like this one here. As I said, there is more to living in a community than narrow self interest.
Wayne makes the point perfectly:
But sometimes they need a hand to help make their own circumstances, to get them out of circumstances not of their own making.
As does barfly when he asks:
… how an 18 year old could afford to open a retail store, with all the attendant costs.
The answer is is see beyond your immediate circumstances, to understand what is going on and to have the caring and empathy to help that community that you are a part of. When you think only of yourself and your own, and deny the importance of the rest of society, separating yourself from it in the process, you have a good definition of selfishness.
My judgement of you is of no real import. However, the fact that you come across that way to me and others, should be a red flag to you, that you need to look into that. To block out the thoughts, feelings and opinions of others as you do constantly here, leads to a rigid and stagnant lifestyle that has no willingness or ability to change and grow emotionally. Something to think on, eh?
January 18th, 2008 at 2:37 amYou are completely incorrect.
Truths are universal, and truths work.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 18, 2008 @ 2:36 am
And that is why you will always sound like an idiot to some.
In the middle ages, the “universal truth” was the world was flat and the run orbited the earth. Where would we be today if no one ever questioned the established “truths”?
Prove I am incorrect, sir.
January 18th, 2008 at 2:41 amBah, sun orbited the earth not run =P
January 18th, 2008 at 2:43 amAnd they say you can’t learn anything from a liberal.
You folks really need to quit trying to re-write history. Those of us who lived and prospered through the great Reagan years won’t be fooled.
Obviously you are incapable of learning anything further, because you think you “know it all”.
I miss Uncle Ronnie. (snif…)
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 18, 2008 @ 2:40 am
You can always crawl into the box with him.
January 18th, 2008 at 2:46 amI will check in the morning to see you were are able to prove me incorrect or not, oh bigfoot-in-mouth.
You are a perfect example of someone who is hidebound by his own mistaken beliefs and is unwilling to look outside his own box.
January 18th, 2008 at 2:58 amOne last, and first comment to O Bigfoot. Just wait until the proverbial excrement hits the fan. My family still owns one of the few small family farms left. When it all boils down to basics it doesn’t matter how nifty your business is. What matters is, are you self sufficient? I can say with certainty when the ex CEO’s come offering millions for my food I will answer with a famous finger gesture. When it comes down to basics only a few things matter and it is not business models, profit margins or distribution networks.
Steve B
January 18th, 2008 at 2:59 amThe S&L fiasco was borne out of deregulation, so yeah, it was kind sorta Ronnie’s fault.
Comment by justasking — January 18, 2008 @ 3:07 am
Yep. =)
January 18th, 2008 at 3:08 amThe problem is, if you say the Emperor has no clothes, and the people start to believe it, what will the Randians, conservatives and neocons do? Their god, raygun, will be seen for the middle class and democracy destroyer he was. After all they don’t have anyone else to erect a statue to.
January 18th, 2008 at 3:13 amWhat modern liberals call being “progressive†has absolutely no grounding in the history of the United States, and in fact has been nothing but destructive to this nation and our people.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 18, 2008 @ 3:11 am
Wrong again.
January 18th, 2008 at 3:16 am
HAIL BUSH/CHENNEY! THEY ARE DOING A GREAT JOB IN DESTROYING THE USA…
January 18th, 2008 at 3:22 amO Bigfoot I see you did not respond to my post. I, and my family are one of the most self reliant you can find, but I still advocate a plan that is best for society as a whole.
When you advocate a return to self reliance are you talking on an individual or community level?
Waiting for intelligent debate….
Steve B
January 18th, 2008 at 3:22 amWhat a lot of you don’t appear to understand is that I am under no obligation to “prove†anything to anybody. Truths are universal. They have been around for all time, and don’t change by the mere whims of mankind. They prove themselves, if tried.
Call it religion, as I do, or call it whatever you want. Truths simply don’t change at the hands of man, man must change due to the truth.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 18, 2008 @ 3:17 am
If you call something I say incorrect, you better have something to back it up fool.
As for your religion. One of your so called “truths” is that my people are a lost tribe of Israel. Something proven false by modern genetics.
Your so called “truths” are not truths at all.
January 18th, 2008 at 3:22 amWell, at least Reagan made back some of the deficit he created by selling those armaments to Iran’s Ayatollah.
∞
January 18th, 2008 at 3:25 amFortunately, truth is universal, and eternal.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 18, 2008 @ 3:25 am
Too bad you are an idiot and stopped looking for the truth long ago, isn’t it.
January 18th, 2008 at 3:28 amComment by O. Bigfoot — January 18, 2008 @ 3:11 am
Whew! That is some rant! As with all your posts you prove to the people reading them your Randian self centered philosophy. That you care for no one but yourself, virtually leaps off the page!
Then you assume:
Oh, you mean when barfly asks stuff like this:
No, I only meant what my post said regarding barfly. Your assumption is incorrect.
And then you say this:
I come here only to expose the liberal point of view for what it is: Totally spurious.
You contradict your own advice when you said:
… they could accept opposing points of view…
You certainly aren’t doing that by your own words. You are being a troll by doing what you are doing. You are not presenting what you say as discussion. Rather it is “I’m better than you are” preaching! You are just getting your rocks off by “putting these pesky liberal no nothings in their place.” Not exactly your words but the essence is there.
January 18th, 2008 at 3:28 amGood point alpha
Reagan should be first in line behind Bush II for war crimes. Ohh wait, I frgot that the Reagan admin was actually convicted of international terrorism by the World Court. That nasty Nicaragua affair and all was pretty tough to cover up.
Corperate interests control the US gov or will you disagree???
January 18th, 2008 at 3:36 amFortunately, truth is universal, and eternal.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 18, 2008 @ 3:25 am
Like the Egyptian diagrams Joseph Smith from the “Book of Abraham” Papri, when he interpreted the egyption symbols?
1966 the papyri were rediscovered in one of the vault rooms of the New York’s metropolitan Museum of Art. Egyptian scholars interpreted the scroll and none of what Joseph Smith wrote about them was correct.
The drawing he claimed was signifying “Kolob”, in the Pearl of Great Price was actually a drawing of a common Egyptian funerary amulet that was called a hypocephalus, that was placed under the muumy’s head to keep the mummy magically warm in their jouney through the afterlife.
As Joseph Smith once said himself,if any can be proven false, it is all false.
January 18th, 2008 at 3:39 amI think we have O bigfoot labeled wrong. He’s starting to sound like an anarchist rather than a conservative..
Steve B
January 18th, 2008 at 3:41 amComment by O. Bigfoot — January 18, 2008 @ 3:28 am
Yet if everyone looks out for their own interests, without harming anyone else, the entire community thrives.
Talk about espousing another’s philosophy. This is pure Ayn Rand, isn’t it.
Sweet dreams OB. Dream on about your own self importance and how you are more important than an insignificant grain of sand. But I am curious. Does this self importance come from your religion?
January 18th, 2008 at 3:41 amO bigfoot states “It’s has been proven over and over that one cannot count on the “community†to look after one’s own best interests.”
I’m curious is this from a scholarly study or your own experience? If so please provide references, or what “community” did you grow up in? Obviously not where I did.
Steve B.
January 18th, 2008 at 3:50 amThis is pure Ayn Rand, isn’t it.
Comment by Merlin — January 18, 2008 @ 3:41 am
His arrogance is based in his religion, from them telling him what to believe and him just accepting the”universal truth” they feed their members. I have ex in-laws that are LDS. My always questioning the “Universal truth” always irritated the hell out of them.
Similar to the type of people that fall for Scientology or any other man made religion for that matter.
January 18th, 2008 at 3:55 am“question: i heard advice to put any money into short term investments – CDs or … what’s the other? – mutual funds?
market somethings? (yea, you can tell i’m up on this stuff)…
the actual question is – when they say “lower interest ratesâ€,
does that include those rates also? not just loan interest rates?
anyone? … am i making sense? …help, please…”
If you’re looking to invest, but don’t know much, you probably should stick to a reputable broker or at least mutual funds (which are managed by someone). Unless you’re willing to do all the homework, don’t buy stocks, commodities, or even foreign currency. Mutual funds are safer than doing it directly for inexperienced investors. Some mutual funds invest more aggressively to try and get higher yields, and others go for less.
CDs (certificate of deposit) is basically a savings account you cannot withdraw from until a certain date, giving the bank more time to lend it out and earn interest. They’re considered to be extremely low risk, as banks are FDIC insured, but are not very good yields. They’re a good place for wealth preservation.
January 18th, 2008 at 3:56 am“Conservatives take action, and take the blame if something goes wrong. ”
Except for GW Bush, who has yet to resign over his innumerable blunders.
“When I have failed, it has been at my doing, and my doing only.”
January 18th, 2008 at 3:58 amExcept when the invisible hand of the free market kills you.
“Yet if everyone looks out for their own interests, without harming anyone else, the entire community thrives.”
January 18th, 2008 at 4:00 amSHRUG HARDER ATLAS!
“Truth is eternal.”
January 18th, 2008 at 4:00 amI’m expecting a full epistemological proof of this.
Proven by whom? Egyptian Scholars? What if they are wrong?
You gotta have faith, man. Truth is eternal.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 18, 2008 @ 3:58 am
And that, folks is exactly the kind of drivel I expected from this idiot.
night all
January 18th, 2008 at 4:02 am#201 Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 18, 2008 @ 3:51 am
Ann Coulter had a good line in her column this week.
Great gugamuga, how wrong I was! Did I say Rand? (Smacks self on forehead.) Its Coulter, by golly! Coulter! How could I have missed it?
January 18th, 2008 at 4:06 amAnd simple namecalling and personal attacks is all I expect from modern-day liberals.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 18, 2008 @ 4:07 am
You can dish it but can’t take it, huh?
Poor baby….
January 18th, 2008 at 4:10 amI don’t know if I agree with you on the conservative = traditional liberal thing, but I do think you have a point about the liberals waiting for someone to save them. I can’t explain the lack of support for the really progrssive cadidates (Kucinich & Gravel) otherwise.
I think that progressives could be much more vocal. I must qualify this by saying that I believe our presidential candidates are pre selected and force fed to us by the media.
Rest assured I am as liberal as you can get without waving the sickle and hammer. :) I blame no one for my fate, but I do worry about how I may help others less fortunate than myself.
Steve B.
January 18th, 2008 at 4:11 am“So you prefer socialism, or communism?
The “invisible hand†of the free market cannot kill me. Only the heavy hand of government over-regulation can do that. I must be faster and more agile. Fortunately, that’s easy. Government is by it’s very nature slow and cumbersome.”
Ah, the strawman, well met. Despite the fact that there are numerous mildly socialist countries that do quite well for themselves, I’m thinking a properly regulated free-market system can work pretty well. Certain regulations are necessary to prevent abuse. For instance, your regular Ayn Rand reader thinks that everyone can just rely on themselves and everything will be just great. But without external entities to enforce contractual obligations (implicit or explicit), the libertarian/Laissez-faire economic system is prone to abuse, as documented by early 20th century muck rakers.
You also claim that the government is slow and cumbersome, but fail to provide adequate proof. A short while after Hurricane Katrina hit, the UK underwent significant flooding, but yet, the government managed to act in an expediant manner, disproving your point.
January 18th, 2008 at 4:12 am“And simple namecalling and personal attacks is all I expect from modern-day liberals.”
It is an affliction of humankind, not a single point on the political spectrum. Of course, by saying that, you yourself are stooping below the standard you supposedly set there.
January 18th, 2008 at 4:13 am“My personal beliefs are wholly an invention of my own life experiences.”
January 18th, 2008 at 4:14 amPerhaps you should realize that your own life experiences are not true across all contexts — this is entry level critical thinking.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 18, 2008 @ 4:01 am
I must be faster and more agile.
That’s fine if you are a chickenhawk. But not so easy if you are a vet suffering from PTSD or a quadriplegic coming back from “Bush’s invasion.” But then, it is the survival of the fittest, right OB? Self reliance and all that. No doubt you would have 3 cardboard boxes to sleep in under the bridge and the hell with those other PTSD idiots. Let them fend for themselves, right OB?
January 18th, 2008 at 4:14 amAnother Philosophy student! I thought we were a dying breed!
Steve B.
January 18th, 2008 at 4:19 amMy personal beliefs are wholly an invention
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 18, 2008 @ 4:12 am
That part was the most accurate of your whole statement.
January 18th, 2008 at 4:21 amMay you one day truly understand that.
“Another Philosophy student! I thought we were a dying breed!
Steve B.”
I suppose I am, but my degree is in computer science and math. Don’t ask me to explain Heidegger (sp?).
“Ah, but my life experiences are true to me. And once one knows the truth, there is no need for “critical thinkingâ€. It’s a useless excercise.”
January 18th, 2008 at 4:32 amThen why do you INSIST on applying your own standards to EVERYONE ELSE? Your own narrow view is only relevant to you — it has no bearing in discussing how an entire society should be constructed.
So O Bigfoot are you saying that response to Katrina should have ben by privrate business? Just curious to see who you think should have picked up the ball?
Steve B.
January 18th, 2008 at 4:33 amGovernor Richardson’s office and to my state reps to get a couple of agencies off my back.
Government, in general, does one thing best: Perpetuate it’s own existence.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 18, 2008 @ 4:23 am
You harp on “liberals” yet you had to ask for help from a liberal, to help you out of circumstances beyond your own control.
Yet, you do not see the irony yourself, do you?
That same government ( the Governor in this case ) helped you in a time of need, by your own admittance.
Yet you spout your inaccuracies and slander of those you perceive as liberals. Then you cry when we respond back to your own insults that you are slinging.
The irony is rich indeed.
January 18th, 2008 at 4:33 amAnd what is “environmentally†damaging about and advertising sign?
A static sign is much more environmentally friendly than one I mount on a vehicle and drive around town all day…yet I could do that in my town with no restriction whatsoever.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 18, 2008 @ 4:33 am
Your rights end at your nose and do not extend past anyone elses nose.
Your vehicle is yours, as long as your sign is not hazard to others on the road, yes you can evenpaint pink unicorns on it if you want.
Signs affect others and it is the right of the community to make rules to govern that community.
January 18th, 2008 at 4:39 amI think we got off on the wrong foot here. First off No one trained in philosophy would insist you belive what they do, unless they were religious, which I am not.
I welcome rational discussion. Let logic sort things out. I appreciate your posts. I’m curious why you responded so harshly?
Steve B.
January 18th, 2008 at 4:42 amWhy, because my standards are based on universal truth, of course.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 18, 2008 @ 4:36 am
O. Bigfoot lives in the best reality he can make in the limits of his own mind.
January 18th, 2008 at 4:42 amYour rationalization is complete and utter baloney.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 18, 2008 @ 4:42 am
Again you have nothing to back up this statement, yet I have proven your statements wrong several times tonight backing up what I say.
Another insult from you deserves a reaction in kind.
Idiot.
January 18th, 2008 at 4:45 am“Why, because my standards are based on universal truth, of course.”
January 18th, 2008 at 4:47 amReally? Care to prove it? I can easily make the same unfounded claim. Claiming that you know “universal truth” is stepping into egomaniacal arrogance, the sort of dictatorial “I always know best” that will always wind up harming the masses. You’ve constructed a set of views that you cannot back up with even a reasonable conjecture (one that is supported by science, logic, or reason) to establish its credibility.
You don’t like to follow the law.
Comment by justasking — January 18, 2008 @ 4:40 am
You nailed it.
January 18th, 2008 at 4:48 am“I think we got off on the wrong foot here. First off No one trained in philosophy would insist you belive what they do, unless they were religious, which I am not.
I welcome rational discussion. Let logic sort things out. I appreciate your posts. I’m curious why you responded so harshly?”
January 18th, 2008 at 4:51 amThe second part was responding to Bigfoot.
“A couple phone calls to the Governor and my State reps rectified the situation. ”
January 18th, 2008 at 4:59 amProof the system works then.
“A couple phone calls to the Governor and my State reps rectified the situation. â€
Proof the system works then.
Comment by AbsoluteCentrist — January 18, 2008 @ 4:59 am
Bill Richardson is a democrat that served in Bill Clinton’s Cabinet.
Bigfoot had to get assistance from one of the “liberals” he harps about.
January 18th, 2008 at 5:03 amTruth is eternal.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 18, 2008 @ 5:02 am
Unless it is not truth. Then it only makes you eternally the fool.
January 18th, 2008 at 5:05 amYou liberals may be willing to tolerate overbearing and heavy-handed government, but I am not.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 18, 2008 @ 5:04 am
There you go again with the “you liberals” crap again.
It was fun pointing out the flaws in your position, but your willfull ignorance and hypocrisy is getting really annoying.
But I guess you do show a great example of shallow mindedness of the “right wing” idiocy for the world to see, so at least others may be able to learn from it.
January 18th, 2008 at 5:11 am“Truth is eternal.”
This assumption of yours has yet to be backed up, or even make sense. Please explain how truth is eternal and how only you is able to divine. You’re getting into philosophical territory that is very murky.
“You liberals may be willing to tolerate overbearing and heavy-handed government, but I am not.”
Please read my handle. Centrist, not liberal, but then again, you’re using “liberal” to mean anyone who disagrees with you and as an insult.
–
January 18th, 2008 at 5:11 amSteve B., I do hope you noticed what I said earlier. I don’t have any problem with you.
AbsoluteCentrist – No Problem, my mistake :)
O Bigfoot – Do you have employees in your business? If so do you provide healthcare for them?
If so wouldn’t it save you money if they were covered by universal single payer healthcare?
Just admit that some ideas of the left are good… :)
January 18th, 2008 at 5:19 am“gave all us residents fuel tax rebates a couple years ago.”
January 18th, 2008 at 5:21 amAKA, welfare.
The only licenses I need to get are when some local towns require them, and only a few do. Most communities don’t license business outside their physical boundaries.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 18, 2008 @ 5:13 am
You have a drivers license, a license for your truck and every business in New Mexico has to have to be registered with the State Tax Office requiring you to have a tax number. Single owner small businesses that number may be your social security number.
My Jewelry making business was in New Mexico.
January 18th, 2008 at 5:23 am“gave all us residents fuel tax rebates a couple years ago.â€
AKA, welfare.
Comment by AbsoluteCentrist — January 18, 2008 @ 5:21 am
According to Bigfoot, it’s only welfare when someone else gets it, don’t you know? =)
January 18th, 2008 at 5:25 amI have no problem with him, and don’t feel the need to label him as you do.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 18, 2008 @ 5:19 am
Yet you feel the need to label posters here?
Then cry when someone responds in kind?
more hypocrisy from your shallow mind.
January 18th, 2008 at 5:29 amDriver’s licenses are not business licenses.
Vehicles are registered, and have license plates, but neither are business licenses.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 18, 2008 @ 5:33 am
It is still regulation, which you despise so much.
And I haven’t lived in New Mexico in quite a while, though I still own 40 acres outside Los Lunas and pay property taxes every year..
January 18th, 2008 at 5:39 amSo your vehicles are personal? I bet your Insurance conpany would be shockedto find you using them for commercial use.
I’m not familiar with NM law, But most buineses have a tax id number associated with them. I’m betting that you have a state sales tax id.
Steve B.
January 18th, 2008 at 5:42 amTax law guide and Tax Id Number : All businesses, including home businesses, eBay, online web sites, professional practices, contractors or any other business, in New Mexico are required to identify their business with one of two numbers: either a Social Security number or an EIN, also called ( (FEIN), if it is a Federal Tax Id Number ) or employer identification number. A Social Security number can be used on all your government forms and other Tax Id Forms, or Tax Id Applications, if you are a sole proprietor, but most small business advisors recommend that you apply for an EIN, also called ( (FEIN), if it is a Federal Tax Id Number ) and use that number instead.
Here is where you will need to use this federal id: All corporations, employers, and those that need to use a business id # instead of their SS#, are required to have it. Also, in tax resale certificates and some other business forms, you are required to provide this number.
http://www.businessnameusa.com/tax-id/states/New-Mexico.htm
January 18th, 2008 at 5:48 amFood to be prepared and eaten at home, however, is exempt. Since that is all I sell, my customers are exempt from the tax and I am not required collect or submit gross receipts tax.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 18, 2008 @ 5:53 am
You are required to have a tax id registered with the State, in order to even make non taxable purchases for supplies and if you do not have a food handlers permit you are violating the law.
When is the last time the health inspector visited?
January 18th, 2008 at 5:59 amTouche’ You have me there on the sales tax, altough I’m still waiting to hear if your vehicles are insured for commecial use, and if you have employees which I hope you provide with bennefits…?
Steve B.
January 18th, 2008 at 6:03 amActually I just saw that your “employees” are independant contracters in your last post. Just curious what they net per year after expenses? Average? I may need a job….
Steve B.
January 18th, 2008 at 6:09 amYou are a Schwans distributer aren’t you, Or something similar? And yes I have been there done that with food prep and restaurant business. :) Although not in NM.
Steve B.
January 18th, 2008 at 6:19 amAt the end of Clinton’s terms, Dow Jones was near 12,000. Now after 7 years of such good Bush Rethuglican management, Dow Jones is hovering around 12,000. Any wealth that has been created has gone into the hands of the top 5%, mostly the top 1%.
Do you remember back in 2000 or so, some were predicting a Dow at 30,000 plus?
January 18th, 2008 at 6:24 amI must compliment you O Bigfoot. We strayed quite a bit off topic, but you did carry on a coherent discussion. Thanks for the diversion. I look forward to hooking horns on more substantial issues.
Catch you later,
January 18th, 2008 at 6:25 amSteve B.
There are a lot of fellas running around these parts of northwestern New Mexico, just like Mr. Bigpoot.
January 18th, 2008 at 8:44 amA somewhat dusty and mud encrusted pickup truck with a freezer in the back running off an inverter.
They’ll approach you at the Speedy Mart, or in the grocery store parking lot, and start their spiel.
The meat is in white freezer paper, you can’t really see what it is.
It certainly isn’t USDA certified…..
It might not be legally obtained,
It might not be beef…
If you start asking too many questions, the meat man gets fidgety and heads for the drivers seat…
You folks really need to quit trying to re-write history. Those of us who lived and prospered through the great Reagan years won’t be fooled.
I miss Uncle Ronnie. (snif…)
Comment by O. Bigfoot
Sorry I missed all this fun– what a thread! Anyhow, over the course of this conversation, O has said he started his home business five years ago when he was 39. Which makes him 44 or so. What this means is he PERSONALLY couldn’t have been prospering during the Reagan years since he would have been too young unless he decided too forgo college and hopped right into a lucrative job during the waning days of the Reagan presidency. But O also said his first attempt at business failed and that he has lived for a time in his truck–that all must have happened during the great “Clinton downturn”, surely not under Reagan or Bush I!
Perhaps he meant to say his PARENTS prospered during the Reagan years, which says a lot right there!
January 18th, 2008 at 8:49 amyou can’t trust a word bigfoot spews. he’s a whackjob cultist and a Mormon as well.
January 18th, 2008 at 9:12 amRecession? What recession?
January 18th, 2008 at 9:37 amAs long as Daryll of Parodyll can vacation in 3rd world countries, and his neighbor can afford a Mercedes Benz, there can be NO recession!
Can there?
This recession was predicted in 2001 by anyone who has lived through a republican administration before…this is probably the first for a lot of younger Americans.
There is always a financial downturn during republican admins. I won’t quote them all but the older folks will recocnize Savings & loan during raygun/bush etc. it always happens because they are crooks who walk along the edge of legality to take money from working class people. They call it redistribution……the working class has too much of the money…..we’ll fix that.
Wages should rightly be moderated by the free market.
Comment by O. Bigfoot
Yeah, like the way you repubs are letting the free market work out the problems with the mortgage loan and credit card defaults….you are bailing out the bankers….welfare if you will……its disengenuous and mean.
nafta was bush 1’s project, Bill inherited it. Another example of why the republican party should be outlawed….much as we did with the baath party in Iraq.
January 18th, 2008 at 9:57 amComment by prabhata — January 18, 2008 @ 1:59 am
thank you… my question was finally answered!
“money market” funds is the other option in was trying to think of…
but i’m guessing it is ties to the stock market also…
i have 2 CDs that mature next week… i’m not sure what to do with them… but, as the IRS bill comes due soon, i suppose i’ll just put that money in the checking account to pay that and christmas bills…
all the CD rates seem to be under 5% now… not much better than my old passbook rate… but i’m betting that it’s safer than my mattress…
January 18th, 2008 at 10:24 amright?
anyone?
Katy I went with a CD recently. I was considering the mattress, but I went with short term CD in which I can withdraw from without penalty. It’s around 4 point something percent.
January 18th, 2008 at 10:46 amThis recession was predicted in 2001 by anyone who has lived through a republican administration before…this is probably the first for a lot of younger Americans.
There is always a financial downturn during republican admins. I won’t quote them all but the older folks will recocnize Savings & loan during raygun/bush etc. it always happens because they are crooks who walk along the edge of legality to take money from working class people. They call it redistribution……the working class has too much of the money…..we’ll fix that.
Katy, what makes you think your money will be any good no matter where it is……recession/depression can destroy any kind of money you might have. Remember the germans were paying by the wheel barrow load of thier money for a loaf of bread…..you might get more use out of it by burning it for heat.
January 18th, 2008 at 11:24 amMany predicted that when the Democrats took Congress back after the 2006 election, we’d see a stock market crash and the economy go into the tank.
It’s premature to blame the Democrats, but it sure is suspicious.
It’s also premature to call a recession. We saw a 20% correction in the SP500 in 1998, and that was in the middle of some pretty good years thanks to Newt Gingrich.
January 18th, 2008 at 11:27 amMany predicted that when the Democrats took Congress back after the 2006 election, we’d see a stock market crash and the economy go into the tank.
It’s premature to blame the Democrats, but it sure is suspicious.
It’s also premature to call a recession. We saw a 20% correction in the SP500 in 1998, and that was in the middle of some pretty good years thanks to Newt Gingrich.
Comment by muckdog
Check into rehab asap
January 18th, 2008 at 11:32 amThe armadilla is very high quality, the rat and snake excellent.
January 18th, 2008 at 1:20 pmComment by O. Bigfoot
Personally, I have never seen what you state, and have never heard of it in northwestern New Mexico. I have sold meat to hundreds in my area, and have never heard a report even close you what you say.
Comment by O. Bigfoot
Nixon: “I am not a crook”
January 18th, 2008 at 1:49 pmO BigMoron drives a Schwan’s truck?
Heh.
January 18th, 2008 at 2:26 pmO BigMoron drives a Schwan’s truck?
Heh.
Comment by Zooey
I know, made my day too. I don’t suppose you need a college education for that do you?
January 18th, 2008 at 5:26 pmBigpoot sure has been awful touchy lately, very defensive, almost whiny… could it be he is trying to bluster and compensate for the fact that his exploitative lifestyle is being threatened?
January 18th, 2008 at 6:10 pmawful lot of denial in those last 3 posts…..you do seem touchy.
I’m actually thinking of changing my user name to “Liberals always Lieâ€â€¦thanks for the inspiration, rhf!
Comment by O. Bigfoot
aw…..you sound a little petty…..try this…
facts have a known liberal bias
January 19th, 2008 at 8:44 amI’ve seen your picture foot…..gawd you’re ugly….no wonder you would rather interact with humans through the computer…..does your arm get sunburned hanging out the schwans truck window?
January 19th, 2008 at 3:20 pm