Don’t Buy The Right-Wing Hysteria On China
Don’t Buy The Right-Wing Hysteria On China
Our guest blogger is Nina Hachigian. She served on the staff of the National Security Council in the Clinton Administration and is co-author of The Next American Century.
This week, Admiral Timothy Keating, the top US comamander in the Pacific paid a visit to his Chinese counterparts. Before the meeting, General Chen Bingde — the Chief of the General Staff Department of the People’s Liberation Army — said, “It is impossible for the U.S. to be afraid of our military development.”
On the contrary, it is quite possible. China-as-the-next-military-menace meme is quite overblown in policy and pundit circles:
Lou Dobbs: “The global war on terror and radical Islamists has overshadowed China’s rapidly escalating military threat to the United States.” [6/28/05]
Frank Gaffney: “[Bush must adapt] appropriate strategies for contending with China’s increasingly fascistic trade and military policies.” [11/5/04]
Bill Kristol and Bob Kagan: “Appeasement of [the Chinese] dictatorship simply invites further attempts at intimidation.” [12/9/03]
And while a recent Zogby poll revealed that a majority of Americans have a positive view of China, only 35% of congressional staffers do. And 86% of those staffers think, wrongly, that Americans have a negative view of China.
Of course, we cannot rule out the possibility that China will, decades from now, have both the capability and intent to confront us directly, and we must stay well prepared for that possibility. But we need China’s help today to confront forces of destruction. We rely on China to stomp out outbreaks of avian flu and other nasty diseases before they spread here. U.S. inspectors are in three Chinese ports to help screen shipping containers for smuggled radioactive devices headed for our shores. Without Beijing’s deep engagement, North Korea will not give up its nuclear weapons. And we are never going to avoid a catastrophic climate crisis without China on board.
Rather than preparing for a military confrontation with a big state — something we know how to do — America has to do something unfamiliar and even more difficult — leverage China and the other “pivotal powers” of the world, India, Russia, the EU and Japan, into working hard to solve common threats we all face: terrorism, pandemic disease, failed states, nuclear proliferation and climate change. Terrorists want to kill us today and could. The Chinese do not want to and can’t.
But for America to thrive in a world with more big powers, we also have to reinvest in American strength at home. If we don’t want US companies to outsource to China and India, we need to develop a healthcare system that delivers excellent care but also controls costs. And if we want our workers to cope with transition instead of rooting for protectionism, we need to provide them not just with retraining, but with a cushion to help them bounce back, in initiatives like wage insurance and universal 401(k)s. And if we want to keep innovation happening here even as more discovery happens overseas, we need to do a better job of growing scientists. Finally, if we want China and India to respond to the specter of the climate crisis, we need to move ourselves to a low carbon economy.
Admiral Keating seemed pleased with his meetings in China. He was forceful about American interests but came away saying he was developing an “honest and true friendship” with Chinese military leaders. Neoconservatives will probably take him to task for that. But we should remember that, as Jon Stewart has said, “The only thing that can destroy us is us.”
Topic Cloud
ArchivesBlog Roll
Be afraid … be very afraid … here we go again.
January 18th, 2008 at 8:07 pmWhy don’t we stop looking at everyone as a possible enemy, all the while creating real enemies by our actions?
China doesn’t need a military to bring the USA to it’s knees, all it has to do is to call in our debt. That will ruin this country faster than a military assault ever would.
January 18th, 2008 at 8:11 pmA military threat? They own us, what is the need?
January 18th, 2008 at 8:12 pmChina isn’t about to attack their biggest customer in the world. After all, how could we possibly repay the almost $2 trillion debt we’re into them for?
January 18th, 2008 at 8:15 pmThe insane neocons have but one year of power mongering left. After that all these neocons and their enablers will disappear back into the woodwork from whence they came.
January 18th, 2008 at 8:15 pm#5 Merlin and other poster’s, my response is…..Maybe…..Blessings
January 18th, 2008 at 8:23 pmI’m a big fan of this site but I think this statement is wrong.
See here 40,000 Chinese Hackers
January 18th, 2008 at 8:27 pmOh, go to the 14:00 mark.
January 18th, 2008 at 8:28 pm#9 Comment by BARTLEBEE — January 18, 2008 @ 8:28 pm
THATS the military threat from China.
Right. No threat at all from China or Russia. The threat will come from within the US if at all. And with the “perpetual war neocons” out of power, there is no reason to fear.
January 18th, 2008 at 8:33 pmDEBT DEBT DEBT!
January 18th, 2008 at 8:36 pm“Terrorists want to kill us today and could. The Chinese do not want to and can’t. ”
I am confused now. I read here all the time that those who take the terrorist threat seriously are bed-wetters, basement-dwellers etc. etc.
But now the Terrorists are to be feared, at least more than China….? But then, I am always told how minor the AQ threat is – can it be greater than our history of adversity with the Totalitarian goernment in control of the most populous nation on Earth?
We have to fear Pakistan because they are an ally in turmoil. But China is our Friiieeeennnnndd.
What we really have to fear is ourselves and our imminent dictatorship. I haven’t heard anyone whimper about Bush suspending the 08 election lately…guess you guys at least own calendars.
January 18th, 2008 at 8:45 pmI remember before 9/11/01 that the Dinkledorf administration was setting up China as the new “enemy.” That effort was sidetracked, but is now reemerging.
It is curious that “news” articles about the price of oil always mention growing demand from China and India as a reason for its high price, but they never mention US demand as a reason. Curious? Yes, provocative.
January 18th, 2008 at 8:51 pmChina doesn’t have to invade use, all they have to do is stop shipping goods and our economy will collapse.
January 18th, 2008 at 8:54 pmus not use, doh!
January 18th, 2008 at 8:54 pm17 I am confused now.
Comment by Keltoi at Night
I see that….
January 18th, 2008 at 8:54 pm#23, Or start dumping their dollars…!
January 18th, 2008 at 8:58 pmIt could escalate.
Comment by BARTLEBEE — January 18, 2008 @ 8:51 pm
Were we to invade Iran, there is a remote chance we’d be fighting a Sino-Russian alliance, but we can’t invade Iran because we don’t have the men.
As you might emote ” :| ”
The likelihood of Russians and Chinese sending their troops into the ME is zippo. They aren’t that dumb – far better to keep buying our debt, which is another story.
January 18th, 2008 at 8:58 pmChina doesn’t have to invade use, all they have to do is stop shipping goods and our economy will collapse.
Comment by Wayne
And so would theirs =)
January 18th, 2008 at 8:59 pmThe likelihood of Russians and Chinese sending their troops into the ME is zippo. They aren’t that dumb – far better to keep buying our debt, which is another story.
Comment by Keltoi at Night
yeah, the russians and chinese have never suppported anyone against us before……
January 18th, 2008 at 9:01 pmyeah, the russians and chinese have never suppported anyone against us before……
Comment by Fred — January 18, 2008 @ 9:01 pm
They are already supporting Iran against us, obviously. But while they love sending weapons and money to 3rd parties, directly confronting us is not their style. I am pretty sure that the last time US and Russian troops took the field against each other it was iunder Woodrow Wilson interceding in a Civil War to PREVENT the Bolsheviks from consolidating their hold on Russia – how is that for Ironic?
China? 50,000 dead in Korea. But again, so confusing, the topic of this thread is how China isn’t a threat.
January 18th, 2008 at 9:07 pmThe likelihood of Russians and Chinese sending their troops into the ME is zippo.
Comment by Keltoi at Night
yeah, there were no mig 15’s in korea and the ho chi min trail didn’t exist…man don’t you have any history books?
January 18th, 2008 at 9:08 pm32 please make some kind of sense……
January 18th, 2008 at 9:09 pmYea, its not like they’d send in forces to fight the US and prop up the indigent forces, like they did in…oh say…. Viet Nam…..Korea……
Comment by BARTLEBEE — January 18, 2008 @ 9:05 pm
You WIN, Bartlebee! The premise of this thread is utterly absurd! China IS a threat!
Well done.
January 18th, 2008 at 9:09 pmThey are already supporting Iran against us -Keltoi
So Reagan didnt defeat communism?
January 18th, 2008 at 9:09 pmChina is not a threat militarily.
January 18th, 2008 at 9:11 pm32 please make some kind of sense……
Comment by Fred — January 18, 2008 @ 9:09 pm
It is called sarcasm, Fred. The idea that China is our friend is dumb. That is the topic of the thread. Ergo: Dumb Thread. It does happen here now and then.
January 18th, 2008 at 9:11 pmExcuse me but it seems the topic of this thread is that China will not be the aggressor……
January 18th, 2008 at 9:11 pmThe idea that China is our friend is dumb. -Keltoi
Corporate America thinks they are, cheap labor and all that.
January 18th, 2008 at 9:12 pmThey are already supporting Iran against us -Keltoi
So Reagan didnt defeat communism?
Comment by Xisithrus — January 18, 2008 @ 9:09 pm
A big topic, but he did defeat the Soviet Union. Deng Xiaping defeated Communist economics while maintaining Communist Totalitarianism. It worked out pretty well, at least if you are a Chinese Communist.
January 18th, 2008 at 9:13 pmA big topic, but he did defeat the Soviet Union -Keltoi
No, he didnt as you can see, today.
January 18th, 2008 at 9:15 pmA big topic, but he did defeat the Soviet Union. Deng Xiaping defeated Communist economics while maintaining Communist Totalitarianism. It worked out pretty well, at least if you are a Chinese Communist.
Comment by Keltoi at Night
What, are you nuts…..never heard of the afgan trap? Heh….this is going to kill you..Jimmy Carter actually defeated the russians by supporting opposition to Russia in Afganistan…..man….you need to read more. It created thier equivilant to our viet nam which bankrupted them……
January 18th, 2008 at 9:18 pmSpeaking of MIGs heres an interesting video about MIG alley.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/warplanes/
January 18th, 2008 at 9:19 pm#43 Comment by Keltoi at Night — January 18, 2008 @ 9:13 pm
… he did defeat the Soviet Union…
BwaaaaHaaaaaHaaaa
And the moon is made out of green cheese!
January 18th, 2008 at 9:20 pmChina and Russia must be terrified of the threat of the US military might. I mean we can’t even subdue a couple of 4th rate powers like Afghanistand and Iraq.
The US Sec. Def. was running around claiming that the problem in Afghanistan was because of Europes weakness.
Heckuva job Bushie.
-GSD
January 18th, 2008 at 9:20 pmAgain – supplying our enemies is big on their list. Open war with us is not.
I have cited Korea as an exception to this. China is not our friend.
But if you’ve looked at a map, N.Korea is just a little closer to China than Iran or Iraq. It was Bartlebee who said we’d face Russian and Chinese troops if we invaded Iran. We couldn’t invade Iran and if we decided to they couldn’t and wouldn’t stop us. We’re all bristling with nukes – we are not going there.
January 18th, 2008 at 9:20 pmWhat, are you nuts…..never heard of the afgan trap? Heh….this is going to kill you..Jimmy Carter actually defeated the russians by supporting opposition to Russia in Afganistan…..man….you need to read more. It created thier equivilant to our viet nam which bankrupted them……
Comment by Fred — January 18, 2008 @ 9:18 pm
Oh, GOD! The sly, Machiavellian Jimmy Carter TRICKED Brezhnev into invading Afghanistan knowing Reagan would kick him to the curb in the ‘80 election and increase the military budget by 100 billion??
I need to read more? Do your history books come with bubble gum?
January 18th, 2008 at 9:24 pm52 be snide if you wish…compare IQ’s and get back with me. The afgan trap is a documented reality….you have my permission to live in denial if you wish. or you can find out that we…..created the taliban…..huh.
January 18th, 2008 at 9:28 pm#52 Comment by Keltoi at Night — January 18, 2008 @ 9:24 pm
The sly, Machiavellian Jimmy Carter
BwaaaaHaaaaHaaaa
You crack me up! It is BushCo that is following Machiavelli through Strauss to his followers (Wolfowitz etc.) Your kool ade is really strong isn’t it?
January 18th, 2008 at 9:30 pmROTFL, You’re a DUMB ONE KILLTOY!
Comment by republicans hate facts — January 18, 2008 @ 9:29 pm
Any chance you could go ROTFL next to some heavy furniture and let the grown ups talk…?
January 18th, 2008 at 9:31 pmRaygun defeated lots of innocent civilians in Latin America and his own brain. He spilled enough innocent blood to “trickle down” to Hell where he sits listening to his own lies for eternity.
January 18th, 2008 at 9:31 pmDo your history books come with bubble gum?
Comment by Keltoi at Night
Dummy. Don’t buy the ones that have been taped back up, and you’ll get the gum. Don’t buy the ones from China either. They have nasty chemicals .
January 18th, 2008 at 9:32 pmrepublicans hate facts and merlin…..easy now….I’ve had a few drinks and I think we should let Keltoi elaborate. I am beginning to think that Keltoi is a mere child….probably 30 or under….no real idea of what has transpired…..
January 18th, 2008 at 9:34 pmJeez….it is hard at times to argue with 4 different people at once.
Fred, if it was Carter who defeated the USSR – and it is hard to even type that without laughing – then he must have been one incredibly Machiavellian guy – Merlin – to appear as the weakest and most innocent foreign policy President we have ever had while in reality being the most diabolically subtle. I am sure that is why he was voted out of office in disgrace with 50 American hostages in the hands of Khoemeni.
If Carter did this, then it is he who is to blame for the Taliban and AQ – right?
January 18th, 2008 at 9:37 pmRaygun
Comment by jb
ha, jb, you’re age is showing….
January 18th, 2008 at 9:38 pmDummy. Don’t buy the ones that have been taped back up, and you’ll get the gum. Don’t buy the ones from China either. They have nasty chemicals .
Comment by Nevar — January 18, 2008 @ 9:32 pm
A Tweety “Hah!” to you Nevar!
January 18th, 2008 at 9:38 pmPretty fancy verbal knotwork, Kelt, but of course, it goes nowhere, and is a closed loop.
January 18th, 2008 at 9:41 pmComment by Fred — January 18, 2008 @ 9:34 pm
I am 40, Fred, and I’ve had a few too. But condescension is a poor argument.
Jimmy Carter: Mastermind of Geopolitics too dumb to get re-elected 6 years after Watergate? It doesn’t wash.
January 18th, 2008 at 9:43 pmComment by Fred — January 18, 2008 @ 9:34 pm
republicans hate facts and merlin…..easy now….I’ve had a few drinks and I think we should let Keltoi elaborate. I am beginning to think that Keltoi is a mere child….probably 30 or under….no real idea of what has transpired…..
You are a nice guy, Fred. However, if I ever said the things that he does, I would expect to be whipped to a fair the well. If I don’t know about something, I don’t say anything, or I look it up before I comment.
Keltoi is a troll who is here to disrupt threads in his own inimitable way. Like making outrageous statements that are guaranteed to get maximum response. That is one thing trolls do.
January 18th, 2008 at 9:43 pmFred, if it was Carter who defeated the USSR – and it is hard to even type that without laughing – then he must have been one incredibly Machiavellian guy – Merlin – to appear as the weakest and most innocent foreign policy President we have ever had while in reality being the most diabolically subtle. I am sure that is why he was voted out of office in disgrace with 50 American hostages in the hands of Khoemeni.
If Carter did this, then it is he who is to blame for the Taliban and AQ – right?
Comment by Keltoi at Night
This just shows how little you actually know. Absolutly none of the bs you have been feed intraveniously about Jimmy Carter is true……The truth, if you’re interested is better than fiction. Raygun pulled some strings with people who were not Americans to make things turn out the way they did. The difference is only in intent…..Jimmy Carter had America’s best interests at heart and Raygun had his and his crony’s best interests to look after….that’s about it…..you can believe anything you want but that is the truth.
Jimmy Carter financed the taliban but he did not turn them against us…bush did that in the Summer of 2001….July…he sent Powell to Afganistan with the message……”we want a pipeline across Afganistan and we will either carpet you with money or we will carpet you with bombs.”…….911 was basically a pre-emptive strike by the taliban against the US……
January 18th, 2008 at 9:45 pmPretty fancy verbal knotwork, Kelt, but of course, it goes nowhere, and is a closed loop.
Comment by Nevar — January 18, 2008 @ 9:41 pm
You got me. My mind is a-swirl with all the possible meanings of this post. I am stunned into admiring silence.
January 18th, 2008 at 9:46 pmIf you FEAR CHINA, Killtoy, BLAME WALMART!
Comment by republicans hate facts — January 18, 2008 @ 9:43 pm
This may be the one thing we agree on….time for another drink.
January 18th, 2008 at 9:47 pmYou are a nice guy, Fred. However, if I ever said the things that he does, I would expect to be whipped to a fair the well.
Comment by Merlin
I agree Merlin. that is the difference between us and them…..we understand dignity.
January 18th, 2008 at 9:49 pm“Fred, if it was Carter who defeated the USSR – and it is hard to even type that without laughing – then he must have been one incredibly Machiavellian guy….”
And…
“Jimmy Carter: Mastermind of Geopolitics too dumb to get re-elected 6 years after Watergate? It doesn’t wash.”
Comment by Keltoi at Night
You betray the absence any spiritual reality in your viewpoint.
January 18th, 2008 at 9:51 pmCarter was a man of peace. He did not look at the struggle between humans with different ideologies in terms of always having to dominate or control other cultures or beliefs.
It is the catchwords “mastermind” and “Machiavellian” and “defeated”
that give you and your ilk away for the schemers and exploiters you are.
It is the catchwords “mastermind†and “Machiavellian†and “defeated†that give you and your ilk away for the schemers and exploiters you are.
Good catch, Nevar! There is much intentional projection used by the neocons and their lackeys. Control through the use of words. Emotional words. Its called propaganda in polite circles.
January 18th, 2008 at 9:57 pmRemember keltoi, Jimmy Carter had an IQ of180+ bush has an IQ of under 100……Jimmy Carter was a nuclear physicist…..bush was a failed baseball team manager. Any man, no matter how intelligent can be betrayed by people with greedy and evil intent….that is what happened to Jimmy Carter…..a great man…..sorry if that offends you but not really…..
January 18th, 2008 at 9:57 pmYou betray the absence any spiritual reality in your viewpoint.
Carter was a man of peace. He did not look at the struggle between humans with different ideologies in terms of always having to dominate or control other cultures or beliefs.
It is the catchwords “mastermind†and “Machiavellian†and “defeatedâ€
that give you and your ilk away for the schemers and exploiters you are.
Comment by Nevar — January 18, 2008 @ 9:51 pm
Another really interesting point, just when I was off to cook dinner.
I’d just like to point out it was Fred who was making Carter out to be this secret duplicitous genius and I was calling him on it.
You are right – Carter was a man of peace. Jesus, Gandhi and King were also men of Peace. They are far more admirable than any President could ever be. Neville Chamberlain was a man of Peace. I think he and Carter both missed their calling when they sought to lead nations.
It is a philosophical difference, and a profound one, but I thank you that my last thought of the discussion tonight doesn’t involve excrement as RHF would have it.
January 18th, 2008 at 10:00 pmrepublicans hate facts, merlin, Nevar…..good evening to you gentlemen.
Keltoi……if you’re not a troll then open your mind and find the truth…..
damn….that sounds like the vodka talking.
January 18th, 2008 at 10:00 pm“Control through the use of words. Emotional words. Its called propaganda in polite circles.”
Comment by Merlin
thanks merlin
January 18th, 2008 at 10:01 pmThe terms they use to describe adversaries are their own characteristics.
By offensively labeling others, they think to divert awareness of their actions.
so wal marts devistating effects on the American middle class is the Glass familys business practices and not chinas fault at all? the fact that chinese workers have no rights and live under communism where they get nothing and live in an industrial wasteland where the leading killer is lung cancer not from smoking but just from breathing in all the lead pollution in the air.
thats something to shake hands with? I say we boycott the bastards right out of our economy. let them sell their plastic junk somewhere else.
but yea . saying chinas military is a threat is insanely stupid and imaginative.. be a good script for a new red dawn movie.
January 18th, 2008 at 10:02 pmIt is a philosophical difference, and a profound one,
Comment by Keltoi at Night
Don’t let it tie you up in knots…….
January 18th, 2008 at 10:04 pmComment by Keltoi at Night — January 18, 2008 @ 10:00 pm
Carter was a man of peace. Jesus, Gandhi and King were also men of Peace. They are far more admirable than any President could ever be. Neville Chamberlain was a man of Peace. I think he and Carter both missed their calling when they sought to lead nations.
It is a philosophical difference, and a profound one
“More admirable”?? Why do you say that? Educate me, here.
And what calling would they have missed? Is leading a nation not a worthy goal or job?
A profound philosophical difference, you say. Please explain.
And yes, I know you are gone. Too bad, as I would really like to hear your thoughts here.
January 18th, 2008 at 10:17 pmWhat kind of weapons did the Viet Cong fire at us again?
:|
I forget.
Comment by BARTLEBEE
AK47…..same reliable weapon being used against us in Iraq.
January 18th, 2008 at 10:25 pmThe Kalashnikov.
:|
Hmmmm, whats the country of origin on that again….????
Comment by BARTLEBEE
I found and used a few in nam but I think they come from somewhere up north……threw down the m16…..didn’t work..
January 18th, 2008 at 10:29 pmAs I recall, the Vietnamese and Chinese had been traditional enemies going back 2,000 yrs. Ho Chi Minh only went to them because he needed help fighting the US and the S Vietnamese govt. All he ever wanted, at the start, was outsiders out of VN, I believe.
Don’t know if HCM was a Communist right from the start, but he was in Paris in the 1920’s looking for support for a free VN, ie, no more French colonialism. Can’t imagine HCM wasn’t nervous about the consequences of befriending the Chinese in his fight, and by the time the VN War ended and the US left, North VN had something like the 4th largest standing military in the world, and this in turn led to the invasion of Kampuchea, to stop Pot Pol, and border fighting w/ China, VN’s erstwhile ally.
Whattamess…
It brings to mind Casey Stengel’s famous quote about the NY Mets…
“Can’t anybody here play this game?”
January 18th, 2008 at 10:30 pmLike I said, neocons don’t “do†history.
Comment by BARTLEBEE
I think what they know about Jimmy Carter will verify this statement…..sad
January 18th, 2008 at 10:31 pmComment by The Republic of Stupidity
yeah, everyone thinks we stopped pol pot and the killing in Cambodia when it was actually the north vietnamese…lot of distortion of fact…
January 18th, 2008 at 10:33 pmI found and used a few in nam but I think they come from somewhere up north……threw down the m16…..didn’t work..
Comment by Fred — January 18, 2008 @ 10:29 pm
the m16 still sucks, at least it did 1982-1991.
January 18th, 2008 at 10:34 pm“Facts” can be such incovenient things, Fred…
January 18th, 2008 at 10:36 pmI found and used a few in nam but I think they come from somewhere up north……threw down the m16…..didn’t work..
Comment by Fred — January 18, 2008 @ 10:29 pm
the m16 still sucks, at least it did 1982-1991.
Comment by Wayne
life/death we do what we must
January 18th, 2008 at 10:36 pmAll those “advisors†we’re just kinda “advising†I guess.
Comment by BARTLEBEE
yeah….we advised them to death….
January 18th, 2008 at 10:38 pmAh yes, the AK-47… after all these years, still the standard of excellence when it comes to assault rifles.
What a confusing entity the old USSR was… they couldn’t feed their own people, but they managed to produce the finest assualt rifle ever made, and flood the planet w/ ‘em , to boot.
An Ak was used to kill an SF police officer a couple of years ago. 2 undercover cops, out on the streets, tried to run down a suspicious looking person in a very bad part of town. He turned and fired on them w/ an AK, killing one of them.
January 18th, 2008 at 10:43 pmbut they weren’t there…least according to Keltroll.
Comment by BARTLEBEE
These kids have no idea what life and death really means. Someone is telling them what to think….put them in country for 15 months and then ask them….
we were there Bart….and we were in Cambodia too…..we just didn’t end it. Pol pot was a bad guy. the kind that bush makes Sadam out to be. Sadam was a boy scout compared to Pol Pot.
January 18th, 2008 at 10:45 pmEven DiCK Cheney was smart enough back then to at least agree with his keeper, and shoot down the notion of invading Baghdad.
He even coined the phrase, QUAGMIRE, which we heard about a billion and a half times prior to the 03 invasion.
Comment by BARTLEBEE
You give cheney too much credit for being decent…….by the way…quagmire was first used in nam I think…..cheney was not there.
January 18th, 2008 at 11:10 pmComment by BARTLEBEE — January 18, 2008 @ 11:00 pm
Sometimes I get the bad feeling that Jr’s whole presidency is just a reaction to his family’s personal history.
“Saddam tried to kill my dad!”
But Dad also said, “Now, don’t you look in the closet” too…
And them nasty Feds once took all of Grand Dad’s stuff fer trucking with the Nazis, so Jr showed them… he screwed ‘em all up!
Calling Dr Freud… calling Dr. Freud… Idiot loose in the WH, and yes, it is an emergency!
January 18th, 2008 at 11:13 pmI don’t believe I used the word “decentâ€. I said he was smart enough.
Also I meant he coined it with regards to invading Iraq.
Comment by BARTLEBEE
He wasn’t smart enough to try to stop it this time so what makes you think he had anything to do with stopping it the first time……..and yes, quagmire still applies doesn’t it?
January 18th, 2008 at 11:22 pmYa know, Bartlebee, if “America’s CEO”… **cough**… had performed this badly whilst the CEO of an actual corporation, the Board of Directors would have served his head up on a platter several years ago. Why the GOOPers have let him wreck this country, and their own party, to the degree they have, is simply beyond me.
January 18th, 2008 at 11:24 pmDon’t Buy The Right-Wing Hysteria On China
Or on Iran, terrorism, illegal immigration, same-sex marriage, abortion, sex education, the “war on Christmas”. The list could just go on and on….
January 18th, 2008 at 11:37 pm…
pretty good bill maher tonight…
THE best line i’ve heard in a long time – trace adkins, when the topic of
cloned meat came up:
“did cows quit fu(kin’?”
ah HA!
is that great, or what?
January 19th, 2008 at 12:03 amwhat? … nobody here? … i wasted that?
ah well…
January 19th, 2008 at 12:04 amI don’t believe I used the word “decentâ€. I said he was smart enough.
Also I meant he coined it with regards to invading Iraq.
Comment by BARTLEBEE
He was repeating what the Brass was telling him, he didn’t come up with it himself. That war at least, they listened to the Generals.
Iraq, take 2, madness overruled reason, they got rid of the Generals that told them something different than they wanted to hear.
January 19th, 2008 at 12:12 amhey bartlebee – i wondered if you were watching…
i really liked hugley tonight… but what’s the story with that big guy?
January 19th, 2008 at 12:22 amthe WSJ… i lost his name… … but, ick… eh?
john fund – that’s who i was ralking about…
ick.
January 19th, 2008 at 12:28 amgotta get to bed…
g’nite.
January 19th, 2008 at 12:30 amMaher always gets a strong conservative guest and then some weak but well liked liberal guests.
Comment by BARTLEBEE — January 19, 2008 @ 12:24 am
Sometimes he gets some pretty good liberal guests, George Carlin comes to mind, he has slowed a bit lately though. I think age is staring to catch up with him.
Carlin usually rips them to shreds.
January 19th, 2008 at 12:30 amCarlin is coming to WI. I will let everybody know how good his show is!
January 19th, 2008 at 1:47 amContinued dark throughout most of the evening, baby!!
January 19th, 2008 at 2:14 amThat China might or might not side with Iran does not increase or reduce the threat. China’s military might is irrelevant, because it can crush you without firing a single shot.
America can survive losing a war with Iran. Even now, America could survive – BUT your country is being run by idiots who cannot balance a cash book.
Until you elect someone with some brains, whether you feel you can have a beer with that person or not, until the most important issue is one of competence, not race, gender or religion, China will be a threat because you owe China money and it can simply snip your national credit card in half.
January 19th, 2008 at 7:45 amIf the wingnuts are sooo concerned about the “Red” Chinese, then why the HELL have they been so gung ho for them to finance OUR national debt?
Bush’s obscene tax cuts for the rich? A war of choice put on the credit card? Runaway government spending? The money’s got to come from somewhere. Hey, why not borrow it from our pals, those “godless commies” in China?
In the end, the Chinese won’t have to attack — they’ll simple evict us from THEIR property. And all those borrow-and-spend conservatives will have to learn to speak Chinese. Oh, the irony!
January 19th, 2008 at 11:00 amIn the end, the Chinese won’t have to attack — they’ll simple evict us from THEIR property. And all those borrow-and-spend conservatives will have to learn to speak Chinese. Oh, the irony!
Comment by regular_joe
Unless the war mongers decide to renig on the debt…..then it will be war.
January 19th, 2008 at 11:11 amI know what scares the hell out of me – letting the neo idiots try and handle any security threats to America. These incompetent boobs have f^&ked up everything they touch.
So someday the Chinese will be a threat -well duh! And it certainly helps them that we’ve made a mess out of the middle east, spent our government into huge debt, and trashed our military.
All the neo idiots should be tarred and feathered and ridden out of DC on a rail. They have wrecked our country enough!
January 19th, 2008 at 12:06 pmI HAVE BEEN TO BEIJING A COUPLE OF TIMES. I FULLY TURST THE CHINESE GOVERNMENT A LOT MORE THAN THE NORTH AMERICAN GOVERNMENT… ACCTUALLY I HAVE NO TRUST ON THE AMERICAN GOVERNMENT, NONE WHAT SO EVER.
January 19th, 2008 at 12:20 pmComment by sacopenapa — January 19, 2008 @ 12:20 pm
I have not been. Is the environmental situation as out of control as we have been told it is?
A little off the topic but I was just wondering. Have you seen the Blue Planet Run book. 3 Gorges is both amazing and disturbing
January 19th, 2008 at 3:14 pmA big topic, but he did defeat the Soviet Union.
Comment by Keltoi at Night
LMAO!!! Suuuuure.
January 19th, 2008 at 4:04 pmHow progressive is it to be so apathetic to the human and civil rights violations against the Chinese people. Did Tianemen Square not register on your consciousness, or is it that you lack a conscience?
The communist Chinese slaughtered millions of it’s people, but then again so do all communist or socialist governments. There is no human or civil rights in any form of Marxism. Dr. Martin Luther King stated that communism and socialism didn’t believe in individual rights, and without individual rights, there is no freedom, that those systems were based on slavery.
There is no difference between the far right or the far left, both are despotic, corrupt extremes. What is calling itself progressivism these days is actually regressive. It’s plain to see that the views expressed by “Think Progress” regulars are the same you’d expect from those who supported slavery.
January 19th, 2008 at 11:38 pmI used to be the biggest China phobe on the planet, especially since 1989. The Bush I/Clinton years of trading with a large country whose Generals have threatened to nuke the west coast and whose violations in matters of human rights infuriated me, as did the British handover of Hong Kong in 1997.
Bush II came in and talked tough until they forced down our spy plane flying in international air space, held the crew hostages and stole our property and then he sent Powell out to say we were very very sorry.
Over the last 7 years, we now look more like China on human rights and freedom than China does. They certainly are a threat, but only because we made them one.
Just like we built up the Soviets with aid and trade during the Cold War (there was no such a thing as Soviet Technology, it came from America). With China, Israel supplied China with much of our technology, not to mention American companies seeking to please them.
Communist China, as with the Soviet Union, owe their creation to us as we did not support the Nationalists, our ally in WW II after the war, and the Communists were receiving aid from the Soviet Union . Giving them MFN trade status in the 80’s and 90’s along with tax incentives for our companies to leave America has destroyed our manufacturing base, and today we rely on their loans to pay for our War on Terror.
And now that they own us, the neo-cons want to talk tough on China? I get it, time to declare victory on the War on Terror and replace it with a new Cold War. Orwellian. Next we will be told Al Qaeda has always been our ally in the Cold War against China.
Of course, we all know that after a Depression you need a nice big war to get out of it. Right? China should give us a good fight, along with Russia, and after the war we can set up the Global Government. Might be a phony war, fought only on TV with the occasional bombs going off in cities to make it look real, as in 1984
January 20th, 2008 at 1:27 amMiMiCcs,
Communist China and the Soviet Union owe their creation to people like you. Those who make a pretense of caring about human rights, but actually are speaking out of both sides of your face. Marx and Engels were the people who created the twisted fantasy of communism and it’s counterpart, socialism. The far left is the twin of the far right. Both need to lie and delude people, because they secretly desire to exploit them. I faxed copies of the hate and hypocrisy from this blog to people across the blogosphere, people like myself who are working class and multi-racial and ethnic as further proof that progressivism is regressive.
I know that you feel that the pain and suffering you would impose by your rationales and schemes, is for other people. Just like the drones who voted for and still vote for right wing candidates.. and like them you think you’re “special”, that you are favored. That playing your games will bring you to some protected status when the shit hits the fan. Here’s a wakeup call. Go to your local pharmacy or hardware store. Purchase a lead detection kit, they are relatively inexpensive. Go into your kitchen and take out a coffee mug, heck, take out a plate, a bowl, and test them…
Then come back here and report your findings. Still feel oh so, “special”? Consider how many years you have been eathing and drinking out of mugs, cups, plates and bowls manufactured in China? If you’re in your twenties, it’s nearly all of your life. If you’re like me, older, and grew up eating and drinking out of American manufactured products, that had safety standards regulated upon them, and you caught on in the ’80s about lead glazes being used in products manufactured in China your exposure was limited. Of course China has claimed for several decades now that they don’t use lead any more, but it’s a lie. Aside from lead poisoning, lead exposure causes cancer, as well as diminished intelligence, and in all likelihood you’ve been the beneficiary of what you’ve advocated imposing on the most powerless. :)
Go to your doctors and be tested. BTW, you can’t sue the manufacturers, because the MFN status you have been wet dreaming about denies you that right. China insisted on standards that ensure that their own “standards” apply to goods they export.
Of course that’s just the tip of the iceberg. Have any of you prescribed a prescription decongestant and/or expectorant over the past few years? There have been a lot of them that have been banned and others that haven’t, but have recently been found to cause serious health problems, and not just in little children. Any of you been precribed something called Entex, or Entex PSE? That was banned last May, but might still be on pharmacy shelves, and doctors are still prescribing it. Some of the ingredients were manufactured in China, including time released expectorants, which release too fast and are causing overdoses. Problems like hemoragic strokes in young women, serious heart and respiratory damage, all kinds of fun stuff for young radicals to spend their time dealing with.
There are lots more things to consider.. but I’m sure it won’t bother you. Your liberation (translates to enslaving yourselves) theory only serves to profit the corporate interests and they don’t care about you any more than they care about anyone who isn’t themselves. I know it might be traumatic to you, but you is the sheeple, the sheeple is you. Get that hard truth printed on a t-shirt and repeat it as a personal mantra. Perhaps it will sink in to your thick heads, perhaps it won’t. After all you are the byproduct, or should I be honest and say the waste product (shit) of the Reagan years. :)
January 20th, 2008 at 2:58 pmBadmoodman,
If you think we are going to be a big customer base of any kind for much longer, you are extremely clueless. Of course mommy and daddy probably profit from big investments and have hired someone named Maria to wipe your ass and scrub the skid marks out of your undies as long as you’ve been alive.. so you are bone ignorant.
Our economy is hanging by a thread. Without a citizen manufacturing base proping up a wider middle class, the middle class ends, we’re almost at the end of it now. Without the wider middle class, the upper middle class and the bottom end of the wealthy are destroyed, leaving the top tier and I’m sure that doesn’t include any of you. You all will be shoved back even lower than your last blue collar ancestor, and the shock will traumatize you.. you aren’t capable of surviving much of anything.
China is looking to destroy our country and seize our resources, and then will reduce the people here into a slave labor work force. Grow the hell up moron.
January 20th, 2008 at 3:09 pmJenny
Stop, breath, think.
China and Russia were not created by liberals, or even Marx and Engels if you read their work.
They were created by Russians and Chinese people overthrowing governments which were in their own ways worse. They learned their government’s nature not from Marx, but from the Tsar and the Emperor – and they applied it accordingly.
While they are called leftwing, in real terms they are extremely rightwing – right down to the harsh law enforcement, authoritarian legal system and loose view of workers’ and consumers’ rights.
Right now, China is a bad place. Not quite as bad as Saudi Arabia (They aren’t, after all, sentencing people to 300 lashes for being raped) but still bad. It is not looking to enslave you. You just aren’t that appealing as potential slaves.
They have enough labour to not really want stupid, fat and incurious gun nuts – which is pretty much how the rest of the world sees America. Your resources, well, a lot of them have been mined out and those that haven’t, haven’t for very good reasons. For resources, China can go to Africa, which is a lot more promising in that regard.
If China moves on you it will be to eliminate the competition.
And what is more, there is nothing you can do about it. They own you because of GW Bush, because of the far right, and because you went along with the idea that the far left is just as bad. You built a false equivelancy of left versus right and allowed it to move you towards the “Centre.”
By renouncing the “Extreme” left, which is pro-union, pro human rights, pro peace and pro social responsibility, you have allowed the far right, which is anti all of that, to take over. America was not destroyed by the leftwing liberals who went out and protested against the war, it was destroyed mostly by “Centrists”.
And right now, before you can even begin to do anything about China, you need to rebuild America. At the moment America talks to China over human rights abuses? China turns around and points out that:
1: A lot of those abuses are happening in American owned factories.
2: Talking about human rights is mighty odd coming out of the state behind Gitmo.
3: *Cough* *Cough* Iraq. *Cough*
4: You owe them money.
Before you can even begin to deal with China from a position of strength you need to be in that position of strength.
January 21st, 2008 at 10:15 am