At least 68 dead in clashes across Iraq.
By on Jan 19th, 2008 at 8:44 pm
At least 68 dead in clashes across Iraq.
As “members of a messianic cult and Iraqi troops” continued fighting for a second day, the death toll “in two predominantly Shiite southern cities rose from 50 to at least 68“:
Iraqi authorities said at least 36 people were reported killed in Basra, Iraq’s second largest city, and at least 32 in Nasiriyah, including Iraqi security forces, civilians and gunmen. At least 10 people were reported slain in Nasiriyah Friday.
There was also “a deadly bombing in northern Iraq.” The AP describes the violence of the past two days as part of “a series of recent high-profile attacks” that are “eroding the security gains of the previous six months.”
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ArchivesBlog Roll
One giant SURGE…..backwards?
January 19th, 2008 at 8:48 pmWe’re winning, we’re winning!
January 19th, 2008 at 8:50 pmBut aren’t the British there to take care of it? This can’t be happening!
January 19th, 2008 at 8:58 pm**sigh**
Why did the idiots in Congress vote to give The Idiot the authority to cause this damned quagmire?
January 19th, 2008 at 9:01 pmMore progress?
January 19th, 2008 at 9:02 pmThe surge is working the surge is working the surge is working the surge is working the surge is working the surge is working the surge is working the surge is working the surge is working the surge is working the surge is working the surge is working the surge is working
January 19th, 2008 at 9:06 pmThe surge is working! The surge is working! Said Alfred E. Neuman with his happy face grin. Now what we need is more boots on the ground. (See, it worked in Bagdad, right? And what was the name of that city we used white phosphorus on?… We fixed that little problem quick.)
January 19th, 2008 at 9:08 pmCivil War. Ethnic cleansing. Democracy on the march?
The Chimp has stuck a firecracker in the Earth and set it off.
January 19th, 2008 at 9:14 pmThank you for puttting up something about the Occupation. We have to get this issue in front of the public on a daily basis, in my opinion. Everyone’s been focused on inane such nonissues, such as “experience” versus “change,” and it’s dumbing us down. It feels as if the soldiers and the Iraqi people have been forgotten, too. It’s so wrong.
January 19th, 2008 at 9:14 pmThe economy and the Occupation can’t be separated, either, as the mainstream media is trying to do when it asks people to choose between the Occupation and the economy. It’s not one or the other; it’s both. They are intertwined.
From what I’ve been reading lately, violence has been escalating for some time now. I wonder which side we’re arming these days, or if it makes any difference to Bush, as long as he can keep the Occupation going.
I have to say this surprises me. Nasiriyah was a rather peaceful place in 2003-2004. I only got to swing by there a few times, but it was a big treat for my unit because they had a Pizza Hut there and you didn’t have to go to sleep listening to mortar rounds falling. You also didn’t have to wear kevlar helmet/body armor to the shower. They had a great MWR area and PX at Cedars, right near Tallil. Talking to friends who are still there, most of the places I was in haven’t changed. It is sad to hear Nasiriyah has taken a turn for the worse.
January 19th, 2008 at 9:20 pmWell the White House will report it’s Al Qaeda who did it. Petraeus will give a great report and McCain will say our troops should stay in Iraq for 10,000 years.
January 19th, 2008 at 9:27 pmLet’s give more money and bomb more countries.
#9 Comment by lefttown — January 19, 2008 @ 9:14 pm
Thank you for puttting up something about the Occupation. We have to get this issue in front of the public on a daily basis, in my opinion. Everyone’s been focused on inane such nonissues, such as “experience†versus “change…
I heartily agree. The leading Dem candidates don’t want to focus on the occupation (their records you know) and the corporate MSM definitely doesn’t (there’s money in that there sand)!
I understand that “Its the economy stupid” is the issue that touches the general public the most. So its on to anything BUT the tragedy in Iraq. Sigh… Politics instead of realism, ethics and morals. Par for the course.
January 19th, 2008 at 9:28 pmWe’re winning! Black is white and white is black.
And Hillary Clinton is an honest broker who runs a clean campaign and will save us from mistakes like Iraq (even though she just voted for the Bush warmongering bill declaring Iran’s military to be terrorists).
Was Clinton behind the anti-Obama super-smear Robocall just like her campaign circulating Obama-smear emails?
Nah, it was just a totally isolated incident of which she was completely innocent. She would never do anything desperate like that. Again.
More: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/1/19/181938/426/674/439681
January 19th, 2008 at 9:46 pm#11 Yes, I agree it’s politics ahead of realism, ethics, and morals. It’s not just the military/industrial complex, anymore. It seems to be the media/military/industrial complex. The majority of our political leaders have abandoned us. There actually used to be patriotic American companies, too. What a shame and what an outrage.
January 19th, 2008 at 9:46 pm.
My sister, a staunch Republican whom I talk to very little about politics, mentioned how the “surge is working”.
All I could say was:
2007 = highest troops deaths…
2007 = highest civilian deaths…
2007 = No political solution in place…
“How is this surge working?”
She mentioned how civilian death rates, in certain areas, are down. She didn’t care for me reminding her that ethnic cleansing is why they are down… I had to ask, “How is that a success?” She had no answer other than, “You don’t know what you are talking about.” I retorted, “This “Surge is working’ is another ‘Bumper sticker’ slogan.”
So, how many people have to die for this surge to be victorious?
.
January 19th, 2008 at 10:03 pmComment by Max-1 — January 19, 2008 @ 10:03 pm
I think we’re related, Max. That sounds like my sister!
January 19th, 2008 at 10:08 pm.
#15 Comment by Zooey — January 19, 2008 @ 10:08 pm
Did I mention she likes Rush Limpy. She finds his bigotry entertaining. And to boot, she’s a devout Catholic. Yes, her Christ did say, “Kill thine neighbor…” NO?
.
January 19th, 2008 at 10:11 pmthat’s what happens when you start getting cocky
and “count your chickens before they hatch”…
… goes for this election too…
remember that.
January 19th, 2008 at 10:18 pmThe Bush Administration will never, ever admit that it was wrong all along. It will never admit that it lied about the pretenses for the war. It will never admit that it deliberately misled the public about the dangers posed by Iraq. It will never admit that neither its public statements about the eventual outcome nor its private planning, were founded in provable facts but, instead, pure ideology about the world. It will never admit that the people who died did not have to die. It will never admit that its actions have damaged both our national security and our reputation around the world, even among those nations once considered our closest friends (like Canada). It will never admit that it has been the worst administration in our nation’s history.
January 19th, 2008 at 10:21 pmmax! zooey! we’re ALL related!
January 19th, 2008 at 10:23 pmThe Bush Administration will never, ever admit that it was wrong all along. …
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider — January 19, 2008 @ 10:21 pm
and neither will people like max’s and zooey’s and my sister…
too many of those… brothers, aunts, uncles, friends and neighbors…
i don’t get it…
January 19th, 2008 at 10:27 pmDid I mention she likes Rush Limpy. She finds his bigotry entertaining. And to boot, she’s a devout Catholic. Yes, her Christ did say, “Kill thine neighbor…†NO?
Comment by Max-1 — January 19, 2008 @ 10:11 pm
What I find appalling are the sheer numbers of these wingnuts who truly think Billo, Rush and Coultergeist are being FUNNY. My family thinks Coulter in particular is a comedian.
That’s horrifying!
January 19th, 2008 at 10:31 pmkaty,
January 19th, 2008 at 10:34 pmWhat is unfortunate is that our genetic endowment somehow created the creature that we know as George W. Bush.
and neither will people like max’s and zooey’s and my sister…
too many of those… brothers, aunts, uncles, friends and neighbors…
i don’t get it…
Comment by katy — January 19, 2008 @ 10:27 pm
I’ll never get it. Recently, my father asked for “proof” of all the wrong-doing of this administration, while laughing in my face. I’ve been sending him all sorts of evidence, that if hearings were ever held might actually be confirmed as “proof,” but he just ignores it. He doesn’t want to know, and to me that’s unthinkable.
January 19th, 2008 at 10:35 pmWho are these “messianic cult” people? The territory they operate in makes me think they are an offshoot of al Sadr’s. The 6 month stand down al Sadr ordered is scheduled to expire next month. Is this just an early end to that stand down or is it something else. Regardless, this is not a good sign.
January 19th, 2008 at 10:37 pm“The group’s bloody aims are seen as a bid to bring the return of the “Hidden Imam” — also known as the Mahdi — a descendant of the Prophet Muhammad who disappeared as a child in the ninth century. Shiites believe he will return one day to bring justice to Earth.”
Gotta love organized religion…..
January 19th, 2008 at 10:37 pm“Shiites believe he will return one day to bring justice to Earth.â€
Gotta love organized religion…”
Maybe he can hitch a ride with Jesus.
January 19th, 2008 at 10:42 pm.
#21 Comment by Zooey — January 19, 2008 @ 10:31 pm
Yea, I know.
Remember, “Black face” minstrel shows were “funny” once, too.
I just can’t help but think that some day we’ll all look back on this and wonder, “How could those Good(?) Americans let this happen.”
.
January 19th, 2008 at 10:42 pmWho are these “messianic cult†people? The territory they operate in makes me think they are an offshoot of al Sadr’s. The 6 month stand down al Sadr ordered is scheduled to expire next month. Is this just an early end to that stand down or is it something else. Regardless, this is not a good sign.
Comment by DallasNE — January 19, 2008 @ 10:37 pm
These guys make Sadr look like a moderate. All Shia believe the 12th Imam will return and ordain a new world of Peace. The cult fighting the Iraqi army – who in that region are largely Shia themselves – are the Jim Jones/Branch Davidians of Shia Islam. This whole thing is egg on Sadr’s face.
That said, there are 50 or so less religious fanatics with guns walking the Earth today than there were on Friday. I am glad they are dead, frankly, I feel bad for the people they killed seeking to spark the Apocalypse….freaks.
January 19th, 2008 at 10:45 pm“Shiites believe he will return one day to bring justice to Earth.â€
Gotta love organized religion…â€
Maybe he can hitch a ride with Jesus.
Comment by Nevar — January 19, 2008 @ 10:42 pm
As crazy as it sounds, Jesus IS hitching a ride with Mahdi according to their theology. It is an all inclusive judgement day, apparently.
January 19th, 2008 at 10:49 pm.
#23 Comment by Zooey — January 19, 2008 @ 10:35 pm
O.K. we might be related. My dad’s head so buried up his behind too. He gunning for Newt to take the nomination because he sees how fractured the field(R) is. He wants to see that Contract with America, fulfilled.
.
January 19th, 2008 at 10:50 pmi hear ya, girl…
i posted a message from a dittohead-in-law yesterday (?)…
it just saddened me… i don’t even want to try anymore…
too far gone… … how will we, U.S., ever heal?
“… one nation, indivisible…” …
January 19th, 2008 at 10:50 pmsee, that’s what happens when you put god in between U.S. …
…
walt – it certainly is…
…
time to unfold…
g’nite all
January 19th, 2008 at 10:54 pmI am glad they are dead, frankly, I feel bad for the people they killed seeking to spark the Apocalypse….freaks.
Comment by Keltoi at Night — January 19, 2008 @ 10:45 pm
You are one sick f_ck. You couldn’t just leave it at “organized religion,” you had to go the extra trollie mile and revel in death and mayhem.
January 19th, 2008 at 10:56 pmComment by Zooey — January 19, 2008 @ 10:56 pm
Zooey’s right, Keltoi. To revel in any human’s death is truly disgusting and inhuman.
January 19th, 2008 at 11:02 pmYou are one sick f_ck. You couldn’t just leave it at “organized religion,†you had to go the extra trollie mile and revel in death and mayhem.
Comment by Zooey — January 19, 2008 @ 10:56 pm
Oh, Zooey, come on. These guys were very clinical in their approach. They mixed in with the Ashourah worshippers, fellow Shia, knowing all along they were going to whip out their AKs and blow away their co-religionists and then engage government security forces – also Shia – in a suicidal fire fight with the express purpose of sowing enough chaos to get their imaginary Messiah to come oversee the Apocalypse.
I am not reveling in death and mayhem and you know it. I am glad that those who see death and mayhem as their purpose in life have decreased in number.
I respect you Zoe, don’t twist what I am saying. When a psychopathic murderer dies in a firefight with police, I say, good riddance. When 50 such psychopathic murderers die in a firefight with police, I say the same.
January 19th, 2008 at 11:05 pmThe problem is so volatile that it only takes little things to undue months worth of work.
January 19th, 2008 at 11:09 pmWhen a psychopathic murderer dies in a firefight with police, I say, good riddance. When 50 such psychopathic murderers die in a firefight with police, I say the same.
Comment by Keltoi at Night — January 19, 2008 @ 11:05 pm
Too bad it was the psychopath Bush that got all this going. Do you wish him good riddance, too?
January 19th, 2008 at 11:09 pmI respect you Zoe, don’t twist what I am saying. When a psychopathic murderer dies in a firefight with police, I say, good riddance. When 50 such psychopathic murderers die in a firefight with police, I say the same.
Comment by Keltoi at Night — January 19, 2008 @ 11:05 pm
I don’t need to twist your words — they’re right there for anyone to read. Why do you assume that all of those killed are the “bad guys?” No innocent bystanders in a war zone, no sir!
You should be ashamed of yourself.
January 19th, 2008 at 11:10 pmComment by Zooey — January 19, 2008 @ 10:56 pm
Zooey’s right, Keltoi. To revel in any human’s death is truly disgusting and inhuman.
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider — January 19, 2008 @ 11:02 pm
NO, Wayne. I am not reveling. I said I was glad the killers were killed – call me old fashioned, but if you deliberately take innocent life you deserve death yourself and that is what these guys got.
Maybe I am sick, but every time I hear about some psycho like the Virgina Tech shooter blowing their own head off I think – good. If you are so screwed up you have to kill people for no reason at all, when you die I see it as a net gain for the gene pool.
Obviously, I wish these freaks had just whipped their own backs bloody like a normal Shia fanatic on Ashourah, but no, they had to kill their own.
January 19th, 2008 at 11:12 pmGood riddance, and good for the Iraqi Army for taking them out.
Blah blah blah blah surge blah blah blah blah fight them there so we don’t have to fight them here blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah surge blah blah blah blah fight them there so we don’t have to fight them here blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah surge blah blah blah blah fight them there so we don’t have to fight them here blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah surge blah blah blah blah fight them there so we don’t have to fight them here blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah surge blah blah blah blah fight them there so we don’t have to fight them here blah blah blah blah…
January 19th, 2008 at 11:13 pmGood riddance, and good for the Iraqi Army for taking them out.
Comment by Keltoi at Night — January 19, 2008 @ 11:12 pm
Again, you assume that no innocent life was lost. That’s what makes you disgusting and inhuman.
January 19th, 2008 at 11:14 pmComment by Keltoi at Night — January 19, 2008 @ 11:12 pm
It just appears that you take great pleasure or delight in seeing human beings die.
January 19th, 2008 at 11:17 pmI don’t need to twist your words — they’re right there for anyone to read. Why do you assume that all of those killed are the “bad guys?†No innocent bystanders in a war zone, no sir!
You should be ashamed of yourself.
Comment by Zooey — January 19, 2008 @ 11:10 pm
ZOOEY – did you read the article? Do you know what happened? There were no American or British forces around, so the knee jerk we are the bad guys thing doesn’t apply.
IRAQI Shia gathered for a religious festival. IRAQI Shia Doomsday cultists opened fire on TOTALLY INNOCENT WORSHIPPERS. That makes them bad guys – they killed civillians just for their ideology.
What would have made me really glad is if the festival had been peaceful. Since it was defiled by violence, I am glad those that defiled it were defeated by the IA and yes, killed. That doesn’t make me a sick fk, that makes me someone with an appreciation of justice.
January 19th, 2008 at 11:20 pmARRR – Wayne, Zooey, c’mon!
I am NOT delighting in people dying. I am glad the killers who initiated the violence died while in the act of killing true innocents.
What were the IA supposed to do? Nothing?
January 19th, 2008 at 11:25 pmIs this what success in Iraq looks like? Please tell me we’ve won so we can get the hell out of there.
January 19th, 2008 at 11:26 pmComment by Keltoi at Night — January 19, 2008 @ 11:25 pm
Sorry Keltoi, but you are.
I read the article. Here are a few words: “including Iraqi security forces, civilians and gunmen”
I see no reason for your satisfaction.
January 19th, 2008 at 11:43 pmHere is my comment:
“That said, there are 50 or so less religious fanatics with guns walking the Earth today than there were on Friday. I am glad they are dead, frankly, I feel bad for the people they killed seeking to spark the Apocalypse….freaks.
Comment by Keltoi at Night — January 19, 2008 @ 10:45 pm
If it was not clear that I was glad the guys with guns killing the civilians were dead, I apologize. But I think it is pretty clear I was not reveling in the death of civilians – quite the opposite. I am glad those that would mow them down in the streets are dead. I would think that’s be something we could agree on.
Good Evening.
January 19th, 2008 at 11:47 pmComment by Keltoi at Night — January 19, 2008 @ 11:47 pm
Violence brings about more violence. I would be happier if there were a way to resolve the disputes without anyone having to die. So, no, I am not glad that more people have died. I am glad that no more people will die at the hands of some of them, but I am not glad that it is because they are dead. You, Keltoi, are glad. That is the difference between us.
Good night to you.
January 19th, 2008 at 11:54 pm#44 Comment by Keltoi at Night — January 19, 2008 @ 11:25 pm
ARRR – Wayne, Zooey, c’mon!
I am NOT delighting in people dying. I am glad the killers who initiated the violence died while in the act of killing true innocents.
What were the IA supposed to do? Nothing?
As a person who is against capital punishment and killing of any kind, I see Keltoi’s point and agree with him if I read him correctly. Correct me if I read the situation wrong. In the situation described, I want the armed killers to be stopped. If that can not be done peacefully, then one does what you have to do to restore the peace. There appeared to be no choice but to fight fire with fire here, and if in the end the killers are dead and the incident over, I would be relieved for the innocents left alive. As to the dead killers I would feel that justice had been done. I would not cheer their deaths, yet I would be glad they were gone. They could no longer murder people which was their intent.
I have the feeling that as Keltoi is seen as a troll, people here react to everything he says as negative or bad. Sort of a knee-jerk reaction looking to nail him. Although I disagree with a lot of what he says I don’t see him in the same “troll” sense as I do others.
January 19th, 2008 at 11:55 pm“That said, there are 50 or so less religious fanatics with guns walking the Earth today than there were on Friday. I am glad they are dead, frankly, I feel bad for the people they killed seeking to spark the Apocalypse….freaks.
Comment by Keltoi at Night — January 19, 2008 @ 10:45 pm
Yes, that’s your statement. Maybe you read the article as saying just the fanatics were killed, but I read it as security force, civilians and gunmen were dead. In my opinion your “50 or so less religious fanatics with guns walking the Earth” lumped all of them together.
I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt, but forgive me if I see considerable backpedaling in your subsequent comments.
January 20th, 2008 at 12:12 amAlthough I disagree with a lot of what he says I don’t see him in the same “troll†sense as I do others.
Comment by Merlin — January 19, 2008 @ 11:55 pm
You’re right, Merlin. He’s not an actual troll.
January 20th, 2008 at 12:15 amWhen 50 such psychopathic murderers die in a firefight with police, I say the same.
Comment by Keltoi at Night — January 19, 2008 @ 11:05 pm
The problem is this statement that probably throws everyone, if I may, Keltoi.
Since the death toll “rose from 50 to at least 68“, and the article states that Iraqi Security, civilians and gunmen died, your statement saying “When 50 such psychopathic murderers die in a firefight” can be misunderstood as you seeing Iraqi security forces and civilians as “psychopathic murderers” that you were happy were dead.
Just saying…..
January 20th, 2008 at 12:21 amComment by Zooey — January 20, 2008 @ 12:12 am
Heh, I should refresh before posting. Then I could have just said “what she said” =)
January 20th, 2008 at 12:26 amJust saying…..
Comment by Wayne — January 20, 2008 @ 12:21 am
That was my problem with what Keltoi was saying.
January 20th, 2008 at 12:26 amWhat Wayne said. ;)
January 20th, 2008 at 12:28 amWhen you guys are done splitting hairs:
BAGHDAD — In the depths of a strangely cold winter in the Middle East, Iraqis complain that the lights are not on, the kerosene heaters are without fuel and the water doesn’t flow _ and they blame the government.
And with the war nearing its fifth anniversary, Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki is feeling the discontent as well from the most powerful political centers in the majority Shiite community.
It’s a pincer movement of domestic anger that yet again could threaten al-Maliki’s hold on his Green Zone office.
“Where’s the kerosene and the water?” asked Amjad Kazim, a 56-year-old Shiite who lives in eastern Baghdad. “We hear a lot of promises but we see nothing.”
Little kerosene is available on the state-run market at the subsidized price of $0.52 a gallon. But the fuel can be found on the black market, where it goes for more than $3.79 a gallon.
Overnight temperatures since the first of the year have routinely fallen below freezing when normally they only dip into the upper 30s Fahrenheit.
An average household needs at least 1.32 gallons a day to stay warm, which translates into a monthly expense of $150, or half what an average Iraqi earns.
“I have had no electricity for a week, and I cannot afford to buy it from neighborhood generators,” said Hamdiyah Subeih, a 42-year-old homemaker from Baghdad’s Shiite Baladiyat district. “I would rather live in Saddam Hussein’s hell than the paradise of these new leaders.”
January 20th, 2008 at 12:34 amThe article was at Huffpo. Sorry.
January 20th, 2008 at 12:35 am“I would rather live in Saddam Hussein’s hell than the paradise of these new leaders.â€
Comment by barfly — January 20, 2008 @ 12:34 am
And in the eyes of the “war” supporters, this person doesn’t know what’s good for them. Bush, of course, does.
January 20th, 2008 at 12:43 amSo, violence, still a fact of everyday life in Iraq. As are chronic shortages of basic necessities. Al Sadr threatens to withdraw his ceasefire. Ordinary Shiite’s are now looking with wistful nostalgia at the “good old days” of the Hussein reign.
Yup, that surge sure was successful…
January 20th, 2008 at 12:43 amComment by barfly — January 20, 2008 @ 12:34 am
Peasants have always revolted when conditions have become unbearable. History 101. Or was it History 376?
Anyway..
Obviously, neither our would be emperor or his supplicants, did not study Machiavelli enough, or they would not be making such a mistake.
/snark
January 20th, 2008 at 12:44 amDoes anybody think it is the slight bit odd that the troops have no idea who they are fighting but now the media all of a sudden knows this escalation is due to a “messianic cult”? Sounds fishy.
January 20th, 2008 at 12:45 amOh, I get it. The pro-war press didn’t want to say…”Our shi’ite allies”. What a load of BS.
January 20th, 2008 at 12:47 am“Sounds fishy.”
Comment by Sabyen91
Did they just “round up the usual suspects?”
January 20th, 2008 at 12:49 amDidn’t Poppy Bush say something about our “Shi’ite allies,” and then abandon them to Saddam Hussein?
January 20th, 2008 at 12:50 amComment by Sabyen91 — January 20, 2008 @ 12:45 am
Good point. In fact, I don’t see how this couldn’t be the case for most of the fighting that has gone on since our occupation began. McClatchy once estimated that there are roughly 30,000 insurgents, of which about 7 to 10 percent are actually “terrorists.” Now, we are supposedly fighting them over there so that we don’t have to fight them here. Question is, unless the terrorists have I.D. that reveals them as card-carrying members of AQ, how do we know for sure who it is we are killing?
January 20th, 2008 at 12:55 amDidn’t Poppy Bush say something about our “Shi’ite allies,†and then abandon them to Saddam Hussein?
Comment by Zooey — January 20, 2008 @ 12:50 am
Here is a run down on our complicity during the recent (1980s) past. It also addresses Obama’s remarks about Raygun recently. Consortium News is a good source of info (for those who are not familiar with it.)
(Sorry, I have never figured out ghow to make a link work.)
http://www.consortiumnews.com/2008/011908.html
January 20th, 2008 at 1:00 amHold on.. McClatchey is reporting it differently:
Friday’s clashes were the worst violence in months in Basra, where British forces handed over control of the city a month ago. Nearly 100 were killed, including 80 cult members, another 112 were reported injured and Brig. Gen. Shamkhi Nour Hussein, the head of national intelligence and investigations in Basra, said that about 100 people were arrested.
Some reports identified the attackers as the Shiite cultist group Jund al Samaa, or Soldiers of Heaven, but police officials said more information on the group’s identity would be released in coming days.
WTF?
January 20th, 2008 at 1:01 amThe link works, Merlin! :-)
January 20th, 2008 at 1:04 amQuestion is, unless the terrorists have I.D. that reveals them as card-carrying members of AQ, how do we know for sure who it is we are killing?
Comment by Bad Eye — January 20, 2008 @ 12:55 am
Its at least as bad as Nam over there. The enemy is a face in the crowd. An Occupation is probably one of the worst situations you can put a soldier through, other making them be guinea pigs in a nuclear bomb test.
January 20th, 2008 at 1:07 am#63 “Sounds fishy.â€
Comment by Sabyen91
Did they just “round up the usual suspects?â€
Comment by barfly — January 20, 2008 @ 12:49 am
Yes. All males over the age of 10. If they feel up to it they just clear the whole city, bring in the WP, gunships and tanks and level the place. And then censor the embedded “journalists” reporting.
January 20th, 2008 at 1:07 amThanks for the link, Merlin. It’s sickening to see it all laid out in one place like that. Monsters, all.
Consortium News is a great resource.
January 20th, 2008 at 1:10 amhttp://www.consortiumnews.com/2008/011908.html
Comment by Merlin — January 20, 2008 @ 1:00 am
From the link:
“But the story of the Reagan-backed genocide of the Mayan Indians was quickly forgotten, as Republicans and the Washington press corps wrapped Reagan’s legacy in a fuzzy blanket of heroic mythology.”
Native Americans have along memory and will not forget so easily, though.
January 20th, 2008 at 1:13 amComment by Merlin — January 20, 2008 @ 1:00 am
Thanks for the link. I’ve added it to my Favorites; I’ll check it out in more detail when it’s not so late/early.
January 20th, 2008 at 1:13 amOff topic, but I wanted to mention it anyway.
If anyone is an automobile enthusiast, esp. American iron, the Barrett-Jackson auto auction is being broadcast on the SPEED channel. Tomorrow is the last day for live coverage, but they are now showing coverage from this past Wednesday and will probably re-run coverage from other days next week.
The prices that some of these cars command is often insane, and you can see some really neat cars, esp. the one of a kinds. Great fun to watch if you are into cars.
January 20th, 2008 at 1:17 amComment by Wayne — January 20, 2008 @ 1:07 am
Its at least as bad as Nam over there. The enemy is a face in the crowd. An Occupation is probably one of the worst situations you can put a soldier through, other making them be guinea pigs in a nuclear bomb test.
I will be ever thankful that I served my active duty from 1958-1960. Too late for Korea and too early for Viet Nam. It is that, I suppose, that gives me the admiration and respect for the men who were unlucky enough to fight in those wars, or any other war, for that matter. I have no idea how I would have handled the horror I read about. If in fact I would have come out alive.
January 20th, 2008 at 1:17 amSo…now the violence is because of extremist cults? And the Mahdi army are now the good guys? I just can’t follow the hard right turns the propoganda takes.
January 20th, 2008 at 1:20 amThe previous comment was brought to you by the Ford Motor Company, sponsor of this year’s auction.
You may now return to your regularly scheduled discussion.
January 20th, 2008 at 1:20 amComment by Wayne — January 20, 2008 @ 1:07 am
Careful there. You know that you can only mention ‘Nam if the context supports Bush’s reason for being in Iraq.
January 20th, 2008 at 1:23 amI don’t have a sister,but I had a dream,…..that rust limp got parkensons desease, O’liely had to have his voice box removed,Beck got torette syndrome,Gibson got terminal snot drip,brit huuum got lock jaw and all fox employees went on strike for about 10 years. I don’t really mean all that..but..I can dream can’t I?
January 20th, 2008 at 1:26 am“So…now the violence is because of extremist cults?”
This “pre-emptive strike” smells to high heaven. Why is McClatchy not more specific in their reporting? That “but” they included in their reportage was a specific qualifier, to a non-specific police statement about the group’s identity.
January 20th, 2008 at 1:31 amI can dream can’t I?
Comment by wisedup — January 20, 2008 @ 1:26 am
Sure.
January 20th, 2008 at 1:33 amMine is all of them, plus quite a few more on trial for war crimes, treason and crimes against the interests of the United States.
Thank you congress for being complicit in this deathwork by continuing to fund it. When are you, Congress, gonna get the courage to do your job. Cut off funds and impeach. Call for a special prosecutor for Bush, Cheney, Rice and all of ‘em that need prosecuting. Wake up Congress and take back the power of the people. Something special for you Nancy…get off your ass and get in a brawl with the Bushies. That’s right, get off your ass and quit kissin’ Bush’s ass.
January 20th, 2008 at 1:36 amThis “pre-emptive strike†smells to high heaven.
Comment by barfly — January 20, 2008 @ 1:31 am
The “more information” in a few days about this new group stinks too.
January 20th, 2008 at 1:38 amA few days for what? To invent the story?
And from the “Mikado” the Gilbert and Sullivan light opera there is the song, “To make the punishment fit the crime.” In it the Emperor fantasizes the punishments he will dole out to various members of his society that he does not like.
It is a wonderful comedy.
Here is one verse that sticks in my memory.
The billiard sharp,
January 20th, 2008 at 1:46 amWhom any one catches,
His fates extremely hard.
He’s made to dwell in a dungeon cell,
Or a spot that’s always barred.
And there he plays extravagant matches
In fitless finger stalls
On a cloth untrue
With a twisted cue
And elliptical billiard balls.
About #84
Oh and I should mention… He sings the song with great sadistic glee.
January 20th, 2008 at 1:49 amCareful there. You know that you can only mention ‘Nam if the context supports Bush’s reason for being in Iraq.
Comment by Bad Eye — January 20, 2008 @ 1:23 am
Dangit, I always mess up with that truthiness thing.
January 20th, 2008 at 2:07 amThe headline leading in to the yahoo post of AP story, a story that details numerous attacks including more than those referenced in this post reads:
January 20th, 2008 at 4:19 am“Iraqi Shiite festival escapes bloodshed”
The US Govt. is arming and training the Sunni’s, granting them amnesty for their insurgent behavior, and allowing them to rejoin civil society.
January 20th, 2008 at 9:22 amWhat did we expect the reaction of their arch rivals, the Shiite’s was going to be???
Long live your terrorist pals!!
Comment by John Kerry — January 20, 2008 @ 9:19 am
as long as you traitors are in charge, the terrorists will be successful. They own y8ou, lock, stock and barrel of crude.
January 20th, 2008 at 9:35 amAll you care about is the U.S. LOSING in Iraq so you leftnutters can win in ‘08 but thank God (oh sorry, didn’t mean to bring up his name!) you have no one who can win. Osama is completely outclassed by the Rep and Hillary is completely unelectable!!
Have a good day cut and run coward!!
You clowns have shown for 5 years that only thing you can beat is your meat. George Bush is the world’s biggest terrorist, and a coward, just like you. the right is over, and will be buried next year. not amoment too soon, either.
January 20th, 2008 at 9:42 amComment by Lefty Patriot — January 20, 2008 @ 9:42 am
Easy there. Don’t push any of the nutty buttons. I don’t think anyone can take anyone losing their “cool” for another several hundred comments
January 20th, 2008 at 9:51 amSo glad the surge is working, McCain! Phew! For a moment there, I thought this country had developed a modicum of sanity and accountability for it’s actions. Good to know that we’re still as totally screwed up as ever! (sarcasm **ON**).
January 20th, 2008 at 9:58 amLefty: What did the demonstrators in the Middle East call Bush? Butcher?? Murderer? Says it all.
January 20th, 2008 at 9:59 amViolence in Iraq has increased since the new year began. Killings of civilians by car bombs and snipers averaged more than 50 per day during the first two weeks of January, and U.S. military deaths are averaging slightly more than one per day, or nearly 50 percent higher than last month.
This is CERTAINLY NOT good news, but it is not victory either. Will the “successfull Surge” turn into the Lull of 2007?
January 20th, 2008 at 10:06 amLooks like the Al Qaeda surge is working pretty well. Bush is incompetent, Betrayus is over his head.
January 20th, 2008 at 10:21 amLess than a year, and the Chimp is gone. I sincerely hope the next president puts an end to this madness, and soon.
My greatest hope is the next president can undo the damage Bush has caused the United States, both internally, as well as abroad. In fact, I hope the next president serves two terms, because it’ll probably take that long to undo the failed disaster that is (p)Resident Bush.
January 20th, 2008 at 10:33 amI guess libs just aren’t happy unless they make up stuff to complain about.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 20, 2008 @ 10:35 am
I guess conservatardsaren’t happy unless they’re being lied to and sold out by their leaders. bigfoot celebrates every American soldier’s death as a win. In the meantime, the surge is a massive failure, and the 5 years later, we’re losing three wars. Good job, bushie. How many American servicemen will you kill today?
A vote for a Republican will bring another 9/11.
January 20th, 2008 at 10:40 amI guess libs just aren’t happy unless they make up stuff to complain about.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 20, 2008 @
There is so much real stuff to complain about that I can’t see the need to make anything up
January 20th, 2008 at 10:40 amRepublicans can’t defend the USA, and can’t govern domestically. It’s time to bury that elephant before its corpse stinks up the whole continent.
January 20th, 2008 at 10:41 amany rightard who posts here has no standing. start posting from Iraq, and you might have something worth listening to. In the meantime, you’re all stupidly following the worst president in US history. bigfoot, John kerry and the rest of the treasonous tools have nothing but their cowardice and ignorance.
January 20th, 2008 at 10:43 amIf he converts to Chritianity, i’m sure the ride will be assured.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 20, 2008 @ 10:42 am
How about if he joins your cult of magical underwear and gold plates? Or if he takes ten wives and makes it with his kids? Will that do as well?
January 20th, 2008 at 10:45 amThe AP describes the violence of the past two days as part of “a series of recent high-profile attacks†that are “eroding the security gains of the previous six months.â€
Some surge. how about putting a real general in charge? Oh, that’s right, the good ones were fired because the Chimp wanted to play long-distance armchair soldier. Now all that’s left are suckups and slimy politicians who’ll kiss the chimpy’s ass, no matter how many young Americans die from their leaders’ incompetence.
January 20th, 2008 at 10:48 amComment by Lefty Patriot — January 20, 2008 @ 10:45 am
Sweet! I really liked the part about doing it with kids!
January 20th, 2008 at 10:51 amI think O. Bigfoot has the hots for Lefty Patriot.
January 20th, 2008 at 11:00 amAll constitutes good, clear, identifiable progress in Iraq.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 20, 2008 @ 10:54 am
yes, if you think that more death and destruction is progress. You losers will cling to any fantasy to try to avoid the inevitable embarrassment of your incompetence and cowardice. iraq is lost, and was lost from the first cowardly use of “shock and awe”, and torture. genocidal mass murder is nothing to be proud of, but bigfoot embraces it, even as he hides from his duty. Of course you’re the supporter of our terrorist enemies: the Bush regime. Biggest terrorists in the world. And most incompetent, failing to beat down a pair of broken countries. 5 years and trillions of dllars later, and Americans are still dying for nothing but Bush’s pride and oil profits. keep sucking that koolaid, bigfoot, you can’t get enough of your leaders’ lies and treason.
January 20th, 2008 at 11:02 amIf you liked 9/11, vote Republican. They’ll bring you another one. Completely incapable of defending the USA from a bunch of Saudi maniacs, and still holding hands with their terrorist buddies.
January 20th, 2008 at 11:04 amHow sad for you.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 20, 2008 @ 11:02 am
Who do you like more, bigfoot, Joseph Smith or Charlie Manson? I can’t tell the difference. Too bad you’re so personally weak that you need to join a mad cult to rationalize your fear.
January 20th, 2008 at 11:05 amI think we’re related, Max. That sounds like my sister!
Comment by Zooey — January 19, 2008 @ 10:08 pm
Could your sister be my brother-in-law?
January 20th, 2008 at 11:06 amHow many American servicemen will Bush kill today? How many innocent Iraqi children will die in cowardly airstrikes? How many rich American arms dealers will get richer on mass murder?
January 20th, 2008 at 11:07 amAnd your opinion here is just as absurd and irrelevant as your hatred of your own nation, it’s people, and it’s military. It is based in the same ignorance and refusal to listen and learn.
How sad for you.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 20, 2008 @ 11:02 am
nice troll projection, bigfoot. at least you’re good at something.
January 20th, 2008 at 11:08 am* BAGHDAD – The U.S. military said the final death toll in multiple truck bombings targeting Iraq’s minority Yazidi sect in northern Iraq last August was 796.
At the height of the mighty “surge”. Good job, Bushie. Looks like Al Qaeda’s surge is the one that’s been working.
January 20th, 2008 at 11:11 amSen. John McWar won’t object to 100 more years of US forces occupying Iraq and 100 more years of stories like this.
Heckuva job, Bushie and McWar.
January 20th, 2008 at 11:13 amHow sad for you.
Comment by O. Bigfoot
foot thinks he’s cute…after each diatribe on how un-American we all are because we don’t agree with him he always adds a little condecening remark. Just a little jab to distract you from the fact that he has just accused you of the things the repubs do which is betray American…..his buddy raygun is a perfect example…..can we say iran/contra…..that’s selling arms to your enemy…..treasonous..
January 20th, 2008 at 11:15 amSad for you, but no matter to me, other than witnessing the oddity. We shall all be judged by the same higher power, regardless.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 20, 2008 @ 11:12 am
So all those different Gods are one and the same? Damn, why do so many people waste so much time arguing that stupid shit then especially with the killing each other part. Seems just retarded
January 20th, 2008 at 11:21 amSpeaking metaphorically, of course, just know this: You can’t take your central A/C with you when you die.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 20, 2008 @ 11:12 am
how do you know? The Flying Spaghetti Monster disagrees.
What’s the moral difference between Smith and Manson, bigfoot? If you know the truth about both of them, you know they’re more alike than different.
January 20th, 2008 at 11:24 amSurge begets surge. Borrowing leads to debt. How long can the Empire continue spiraling down?
January 20th, 2008 at 11:24 amNothing cute about being so sad, Fred.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 20, 2008 @ 11:22 am
No, bigfoot, there isn’t, as you show us with every post, you sad little cowardly cultist. How many soldier’s deaths will you cheer today?
January 20th, 2008 at 11:25 amWe shall all be judged by the same higher power, regardless.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 20, 2008 @ 11:12 am
No, we will all eventually be the same worm dirt.
January 20th, 2008 at 11:26 amYour invisible guy in the sky does not exist, except in your imagination.
Unless you have evidence you would like to present to prove your assertion.
Smith has gone to prepare a place for Manson.
January 20th, 2008 at 11:26 am(A mansion of cold, no need to bring the central AC)
bigfoot needs a guy in the sky to defend him from himself. ignorance that deep needs enabling.
January 20th, 2008 at 11:28 amWe shall all be judged by the same higher power, regardless.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 20, 2008 @ 11:12 am
Oh yes, the mighty Hillreh in the sky. Better start the CYA Biggie.
January 20th, 2008 at 11:29 ambut you are all condemned to hell by bigfoots god…..and to prison for not listening to the patriot raygun……
how can a schwanns man know so much??? inquiring minds want to know.
January 20th, 2008 at 11:30 amThey havn’t appeared to have had an effect on your mental prowess.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 20, 2008 @ 11:29 am
Lets test yours
January 20th, 2008 at 11:32 amLets debate your religion, you present facts ( if you can ), I present facts. Lets see what you know about your own cult.
Hey O. Bigfoot aren’t there about a zillion varieties on inefficient internal combustion engines scattered about your estate that could use some of your attentions or maybe a bunch of websites where weird dudes talk about their collections of inefficient internal combustion engines and such
January 20th, 2008 at 11:34 amThe latest issue of the Treadhead Times is in your mailbox, Bigpoot…
January 20th, 2008 at 11:37 am“I have no need to present any evidence of my faith to you or anyone else.”
Comment by O. Bigfoot
Lucky for you, given that there isn’t any.
January 20th, 2008 at 11:39 am133
Lets test yours
Lets debate your religion, you present facts ( if you can ), I present facts. Lets see what you know about your own cult.
Comment by Wayne
now Wayne…..you’re being rude….this will cause bigfoot to have something urgent to take care of somewhere else…
January 20th, 2008 at 11:39 amComment by O. Bigfoot — January 20, 2008 @ 11:36 am
That post is filled with hostility. Is there something wrong?
January 20th, 2008 at 11:41 amYour hostility is yours, and if you are comfortable with that, that is entirely your choice.
I’d hate to have to live with your kind of hostility, however.
Comment by O. Bigfoot
you got a mirror foot?
January 20th, 2008 at 11:41 amYour hostility is yours, and if you are comfortable with that, that is entirely your choice.
I’d hate to have to live with your kind of hostility, however.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 20, 2008 @ 11:36 am
No hostility here. Now your attempts to insult others, on the other hand is hostility
I just see no evidence of your claims of this invisible guy.
Please present your evidence so I may examine it and decide whether your evidence stands up.\
Or do you decline for lack of evidence?
I am waiting.
January 20th, 2008 at 11:42 am“I have no need to present any evidence of my faith to you or anyone else.â€
Comment by O. Bigfoot
Damn, All I asked you to do was explain how all those different Gods could be just one and somehow magically the one you choose them to be
January 20th, 2008 at 11:42 amNo, you are condemned to hell by your own actions, or inactions, and I don’t know anyone who went to prison for not listening to Ronald Reagan.
Please, cite some examples.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 20, 2008 @ 11:44 am
How about you cite some examples of your claim?
January 20th, 2008 at 11:47 amProve hell exists Bigfoot.
January 20th, 2008 at 11:47 amNo, you are condemned to hell by your own actions, or inactions, and I don’t know anyone who went to prison for not listening to Ronald Reagan.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 20, 2008 @ 11:44 am
Is there such a thing as hell? Are we living in hell right now?
January 20th, 2008 at 11:50 amNo, you are condemned to hell by your own actions, or inactions
Comment by O. Bigfoot
This statement is wrong….I’m not religious but I was raised with it. Why don’t you just admit that you use religion as a wedge issue to annoy people. Don’t you realize how offensive that is to people who actually are religious?
I don’t think you are religious at all…….you don’t know enough about it. That also explains why you are not willing to debate your religion….since you are truly ignorant when it comes right down to the nuts and bolts of religion.
January 20th, 2008 at 11:50 amany rightard who posts here has no standing. [...]
Comment by Lefty Patriot — January 20, 2008 @ 10:43 am
exactly… which is why i don’t understand engaging tham directly…
any point they bring up is so easily disputed and proved otherwise…
well, a bit of trooll kicking is good for the spirit, but it gets very annoying when it turns into an ugly schoolyard atmosphere…
not at all condusive to learning…
and that’s why I’M here…
January 20th, 2008 at 11:53 amSo the continued and ongoing gun battles between a cult/militia and Iraqi police is a sign that the “surge” is working?
The article also mentions the sudden rise in violence in other parts of the country as well, in fights that don’t seem related to the insurgency that the US and British troops have been fighting in Iraq.
That the Iraqi police are doing the fighting is hardly a sign that the “surge” is working, since they’re still not able to provide adequate security. Not to mention we were told that a successful strategy should include political reconciliation; something still missing in Iraq.
The Bush cultists’ ability to ignore reality, and their gall of accusing everyone else of ignoring it, never ceases to amaze me…
January 20th, 2008 at 11:55 am“No, you are condemned to hell by your own actions, or inactions, and I don’t know anyone who went to prison for not listening to Ronald Reagan.”
Comment by O. Bigfoot
Someone grounded in reality would preface this with “I believe that…”
January 20th, 2008 at 11:55 amBigpoot epitomizes the passive hostility towards other cultures and religions which arises from a theology of convenience.
His braggadocio on the subjects of his possessions, his alleged success in business, and his own self-security, belies a narrow and fabricated existence.
He brags of being able to accept government food assistance monies, while in the next sentence preaching free enterprise.
He peddles his products in one of the poorest areas of the nation, a neighborhood which has seen the longest running record of human rights abuses in our nations history.
And he sneers at his customers, and condemns their lifestyle, as he walks out the door and pockets their money and their food stamps.
He is Mormon by convenience, in a neighborhood where business, politics, and religion are the holy trinity.
January 20th, 2008 at 11:55 amO. Bigfoot, can real people go to this make-believe place you call hell?
January 20th, 2008 at 11:56 amRead the Holy Bible, the Book of Mormon, pray earnestly and allow yourself an open mind, and perhaps you will gain a testimony. If you honestly seek, you shall find.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 20, 2008 @ 11:55 am
Why should anyone believe what is written in those books? Those books were written by men.
January 20th, 2008 at 12:00 pmNo, barfly, that would be someone “grounded†in a profound lack of both faith, and self-confidence.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 20, 2008 @ 11:58 am
As opposed to bigfoot, grounded in willfull ignorance, fueled by fear.
January 20th, 2008 at 12:01 pmHe brags of being able to accept government food assistance monies, while in the next sentence preaching free enterprise.
Comment by Nevar — January 20, 2008 @ 11:55 am
Which means he has a lot in common with the current occupier of the White House and his cronies, who have never really made their living in the free enterprise, but in government jobs or by lobbying (aka influence peddling), and who have milked the government for everything they could but who extol the virtues of the “invisible hand” at every chance they get.
January 20th, 2008 at 12:02 pm“No, barfly, that would be someone “grounded†in a profound lack of both faith, and self-confidence.”
Comment by O. Bigfoot
Since God’s existence cannot be proven, ” you are condemned to hell by your own actions, or inactions,” is little more than your belief. To try and assert that it represents tangible reality, is aberrant nonsense.
January 20th, 2008 at 12:02 pmRead the Holy Bible, the Book of Mormon, pray earnestly and allow yourself an open mind, and perhaps you will gain a testimony. If you honestly seek, you shall find.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 20, 2008 @ 11:55 am
I read them as well as the pearl of great price and the “Discourses”
I also did historical research and research into the claims made.
I am ready for intelligent debate.
January 20th, 2008 at 12:05 pmAre you intelligent enough to debate?
I’m sick of phony religious nuts……
anyone peddling religion to me must pass a litmus test:
if you are pro-life and pro-capital punisment you automatically lose all credibility.
I am embarassed for the people who are really religious but they are the ones who have let these people speak for them and so they are culpable….
January 20th, 2008 at 12:06 pmBack on topic, here is a good analysis of the “surge” I found online and thought of sharing:
The surge was always a gamble for time, a pacification program directed at the “home front” as well as Iraq. And if this is what you mean by “success,” Bush has indeed succeeded admirably.
CSI: Iraq
Those who thought the “surge” was about anything else are either exceedingly naive or blind followers.
January 20th, 2008 at 12:06 pmPerhaps you tire of defending your pacifist America hating and need to jump to another subject? I don’t know, but it’s entirely your problem, not mine.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 20, 2008 @ 12:05 pm
If you wanna discuss all the death and destruction the Neocon warmongering has caused go right ahead.
January 20th, 2008 at 12:08 pm“Perhaps you tire of defending your pacifist America hating and need to jump to another subject? I don’t know, but it’s entirely your problem, not mine.”
I would challenge that. Did Footie bang the war gong for Kosovo? Or did he sit back and complain?
January 20th, 2008 at 12:10 pmGod’s existence can, indeed, be proven. However, it’s not my job to do so. It’s a personal matter to be handled by each individual.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 20, 2008 @ 12:07 pm
The floor is open. Go right ahead and prove it.
January 20th, 2008 at 12:10 pm“It’s a personal matter to be handled by each individual.”
Comment by O. Bigfoot
So is Santeria.
Perhaps their version is correct…
January 20th, 2008 at 12:11 pmGod’s existence can, indeed, be proven. However, it’s not my job to do so. It’s a personal matter to be handled by each individual.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 20, 2008 @ 12:07 pm
Typical whacko copout. God’s existence cannot be proven, or faith would be unnecessary. It’s what your masters rely on to keep you all in line, and paying.
January 20th, 2008 at 12:12 pmGod’s existence can, indeed, be proven.
Comment by O. Bigfoot
“Proof” is a man-made construct.
Religion is a man-made construct.
“God”, wherever and however defined by man, is a man-made construct.
Spirituality is a recognition of higher energies than human thought, and a worthy path.
January 20th, 2008 at 12:13 pm“God’s existence can, indeed, be proven. However, it’s not my job to do so.”
[in my best Church-lady whine]: “How convienient!”
January 20th, 2008 at 12:13 pmplease foot, exlplain how god is in support of the title of this thread……how is he in support of the deaths caused by bush for no reason…..please defend that if you can…
January 20th, 2008 at 12:14 pmTypical whacko copout. God’s existence cannot be proven, or faith would be unnecessary. It’s what your masters rely on to keep you all in line, and paying.
Comment by Lefty Patriot — January 20, 2008 @ 12:12 pm
Someone told me religion was invented to keep the poor from murdering the rich.
January 20th, 2008 at 12:15 pmShorter Biggie: “nanny, nanny, boo, boo, Nevar, you big stink-head!”
January 20th, 2008 at 12:16 pmIf you can be so wrong in your perceptions of other people, how could anyone trust your perceptions of world politics or your own nation?
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 20, 2008 @ 12:13 pm
Wonders the twit who confuses criticism of the current administration and their preemptive invasion of a country that posed no threat, with hate for the US.
How can anyone trust your perceptions indeed, Footie….
January 20th, 2008 at 12:16 pmWhat does Nevar stand for, Nevar tell the truth? Nevar make sense? Never believe in the United States or it’s people?
Do tell.
Comment by O. Bigfoot
What is this rant foot…you seem to be losing it…..my impression is that you are the one not making any sense.
January 20th, 2008 at 12:17 pmComment by O. Bigfoot — January 20, 2008 @ 12:13 pm
So much hostility.
January 20th, 2008 at 12:17 pmWonders the twit who confuses criticism of the current administration and their preemptive invasion of a country that posed no threat, with hate for the US.
How can anyone trust your perceptions indeed, Footie….
Comment by Gregor Samsa — January 20, 2008 @ 12:16 pm
There you go. Anyone who suggests administrative incompetence or lack of judgment is “antiamerican”.
January 20th, 2008 at 12:18 pm“Someone told me religion was invented to keep the poor from murdering the rich.”
Comment by Nat
And it made the gatekeepers to heaven a very comfortable living, thank you very much.
January 20th, 2008 at 12:18 pmIraquagmire.
January 20th, 2008 at 12:19 pmDo tell.
Comment by O. Bigfoot
LOL
…Nevar give a con an even break.
January 20th, 2008 at 12:20 pmClue for U.Yeti.
January 20th, 2008 at 12:21 pmName of a bird, inverted. Like worc.
At least 68 dead in clashes across Iraq
how about it foot….you haven’t explained exactly how this is ok with your god…..got anything?
January 20th, 2008 at 12:22 pmIraquagmire reminds me of what FDR said about the Navy Dept.
January 20th, 2008 at 12:25 pmLike a feather pillow, you punch it in one place, it just shifts around to the other.
And it made the gatekeepers to heaven a very comfortable living, thank you very much.
Comment by barfly — January 20, 2008 @ 12:18 pm
Pat Robertson is a billionaire and I think Dobson is worth hundreds of millions of dollars.
January 20th, 2008 at 12:26 pmJohn McCain is betting all his chips on the belief that Iraq will not be on the front page in a bad way next November. He has no new economic thoughts to pull America out of it’s recession.
The republicans are poised to nominate him.
If the economy tanks, and Iraqi violence re-Surges….we’re looking at a democrat landslide like the one that clobbered Goldwater.
January 20th, 2008 at 12:26 pmAt least 68 dead in clashes across Iraq
I thought you wanted to get back on topic foot…..guess not since you don’t have anything…..why is this ok with your god?
January 20th, 2008 at 12:29 pmAnd if you believe that, you’ve obviously never been here.
True, they wouldn’t let me in to your gated community without the password.
January 20th, 2008 at 12:31 pmWhy don’t you try praying to Crom, the gloomy god of the Cimmerians, U.Yeti? Chances are he’s the real god, and your is just a phony!
January 20th, 2008 at 12:32 pmI challenge all the Footies on this thread to a bet: how many of you will bet the Iraqis will have a reconciliation of the various factions before the next US election, involving power-sharing, de-baathification, and apportioning oil revenues? I’ll make it even easier: you win, if just one of those issues are resolved.
Any takers?
January 20th, 2008 at 12:32 pmAnd it made the gatekeepers to heaven a very comfortable living, thank you very much.
Comment by barfly — January 20, 2008 @ 12:18 pm
Pat Robertson is a billionaire and I think Dobson is worth hundreds of millions of dollars.
Comment by Nat — January 20, 2008 @ 12:26 pm
Well, every member of the LDS church have to tithe 10% of their gross income to the church, in order to get to heaven, or Kolob/Celestial Kingdom rather.
Thats a hellofalot of money.
January 20th, 2008 at 12:32 pmWe’ll leave the porch light on for ya!
January 20th, 2008 at 12:36 pmAnd why do you hate the State of New Mexico, Nevar?
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 20, 2008 @ 12:27 pm
I believe he disagrees the way Native Americans have been treated there. As I do.
Your the only one spouting hate and idiocy
January 20th, 2008 at 12:36 pmCongrats on your return to topic.
I’ve said me piece on the subject, so for the time being, I will leave you to yourselves.
Comment by O. Bigfoot
now there’s a surprise…..
January 20th, 2008 at 12:37 pmWhen I catch something said that is particularly outrageous or offensive to me, and I care to respond, I’ll be back, rest assured.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 20, 2008 @ 12:34 pm
Shorter Bigmouth : I don’t have facts.
January 20th, 2008 at 12:37 pm“Well, every member of the LDS church have to tithe 10% of their gross income to the church, in order to get to heaven, or Kolob/Celestial Kingdom rather.
Thats a hellofalot of money.”
Comment by Wayne
I wonder if that Heaven’s Gate whacko bought all those pairs of Nikes at a volume price, knowing what they were destined for.
January 20th, 2008 at 12:38 pmIf you wish to believe that, go right ahead and do so.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 20, 2008 @ 12:29 pm
What gives? Didn’t you say that all are judged by the same God? If they are all one and the same than it shouldn’t matter should it?
January 20th, 2008 at 12:38 pmI wouldn’t live somewhere I felt I needed to live behind bars.
Comment by O. Bigfoot
bullshit…..there is no way you can contain the kind of hate and venom you spew here. This must spill into your personal life and you live the life of a recluse at best….
January 20th, 2008 at 12:41 pm“I wouldn’t live somewhere I felt I needed to live behind bars.”
Comment by O. Bigfoot
There’s nothing wrong with living behind bars. All you have to do is walk across the alley, and in the back door…
Real convienience.
January 20th, 2008 at 12:42 pmIn other words, you have the right to accept the truth, or reject it. However, if you reject it, you also have the right to suffer the consequences.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 20, 2008 @ 12:41 pm
What did the book tell you the consequences were?
January 20th, 2008 at 12:43 pmIn other words, you have the right to accept the truth, or reject it. However, if you reject it, you also have the right to suffer the consequences.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 20, 2008 @ 12:41 pm
And what “truth” would that be?
January 20th, 2008 at 12:44 pmThe AP describes the violence of the past two days as part of “a series of recent high-profile attacks†that are “eroding the security gains of the previous six months.â€
U.yeti?
January 20th, 2008 at 12:45 pmCare to tell us again how the surge is working fine?
Where’s the reconciliation legislation, besides the one law passed that most Sunnis feel is just a way to identify them to the Shiite death squads?
In other words, you have the right to accept the truth, or reject it. However, if you reject it, you also have the right to suffer the consequences.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 20, 2008 @ 12:41 pm
Okay so let’s say I am a highland tribesman in some off the beaten path who has my own ideas of theology. Does your spoiled brat God turn his back on me simply because I have different and potentially better ideas about such topics. Show me some evidences that your imaginary friend is better than my imaginary friends and then maybe I will heed your scary predictions of my judgement otherwise I figure I will take my chances with my own woodland imps and assorted other chimeras
January 20th, 2008 at 12:48 pmI think Bigpoot went out to the garage to sit in one of his jeeps and pout.
January 20th, 2008 at 12:48 pm“free agency†???
January 20th, 2008 at 12:50 pmI think Bigpoot went out to the garage to sit in one of his jeeps and pout.
Comment by Nevar
nah…..I can see him….he’s lurking…waiting for an opening. Hoping the subject has changed so he doesn’t have to deal with any inconvenient facts.
January 20th, 2008 at 12:51 pmIf it’s a matter of choice, then I guess I’m a strict Carlinist.
I absolutely believe that my soul will go to a garage in Kansas City…
And those who cannot see the truth are doomed to an eternity of Hell.
In other words… Hoboken.
January 20th, 2008 at 12:54 pmjk dropped us a turd and moved on…..typical for him…..
January 20th, 2008 at 12:55 pmAnd those who cannot see the truth are doomed to an eternity of Hell.
In other words… Hoboken.
Comment by barfly — January 20, 2008 @ 12:54 pm
Guess I better have a flame proof suit ready =)
January 20th, 2008 at 12:57 pmOnly a seriously ill, mentally challenged, or a hateful cowardly pussy wacked out lib could really and truly believe the ridiculous comment above by left nuts himself!!
No matter how you spin it, he’s a war criminal.
I actually feel sorry for lunatics like this and I would gladly contribute to some kind of fund to get him help. Of course, good old lefty has nothing but good, kind and complimentary things to say about his nice little terrorists pals who just love to cut heads off and kill Americans. Is it me or am I missing something here??????
Comment by John Kerry — January 20, 2008 @ 12:52 pm
Terrorists like to cut off your head and Bush the war criminal likes to drop bombs. I see little difference between them.
January 20th, 2008 at 12:58 pmComment by Fred — January 20, 2008 @ 12:55 pm
So much bile…
He should consult a good gastro-enterologist.
January 20th, 2008 at 12:59 pmIs it me or am I missing something here??????
PHEW!!!
Comment by John Kerry — January 20, 2008 @ 12:52 pm
Bottom drawer, below your dirty panties collection, your forgot to put your brain on
January 20th, 2008 at 12:59 pmBottom drawer, below your dirty panties collection, your forgot to put your brain on
Comment by Wayne
No, not the one with holes in it!
The other one.
January 20th, 2008 at 1:02 pm“…the way Native Americans have been treated there.”
Comment by Wayne
It’s mind boggling to believe Bigpoot lives in Farmington, and supposedly gets around to deliver foodstuffs, yet cannot see the crushing poverty, the environmental degradation, and the sheer brutality enacted upon the native population.
I have noticed the blinders many Mormons have with regards to other races and cultures. They simply choose not to see them. They have a distinctly apartheid mentality.
January 20th, 2008 at 1:16 pmFor my view on counterinsurgency, please see my blog.
There is only one way to win a guerrilla war – and it ain’t pretty.
January 20th, 2008 at 1:31 pmWhat makes George a “war criminal†in your “brain�??
Comment by John Kerry — January 20, 2008 @ 1:43 pm
I am not sure. Maybe the same things that made the Clinton’s serial killers and rapists and the real John Kerry unworthy of his service accolades. That’s the thing about hatred
January 20th, 2008 at 1:59 pmShiites killing shiites…sounds like none of our business.
January 20th, 2008 at 2:08 pmWhat makes George a “war criminal†in your “brain�??
Comment by John Kerry — January 20, 2008 @ 1:43 pm
Torture.
January 20th, 2008 at 2:08 pmAnother good far left lib talking point!!
What makes George a “war criminal†in your “brain�??
Comment by John Kerry
can’t believe this kind of loyalty to such scum.
this must qualify as a far right talking point…
January 20th, 2008 at 2:14 pmAnother good far left lib talking point!!
What makes George a “war criminal†in your “brain�??
Comment by John Kerry
you would need a brain to understand.
January 20th, 2008 at 2:15 pmjk gives rise to another kind of straw man…..if I only had a brain.
What makes George a “war criminal†in your “brain�??
Comment by John Kerry
Violating the UN Charter. Thank you for participating.
January 20th, 2008 at 2:16 pmyou would need a brain to understand.
jk gives rise to another kind of straw man…..if I only had a brain.
Comment by Fred — January 20, 2008 @ 2:15 pm
I told him where he left it, but I guess without it his comprehension is not real good.
January 20th, 2008 at 2:17 pmI have noticed the blinders many Mormons have with regards to other races and cultures. They simply choose not to see them. They have a distinctly apartheid mentality.
Comment by Nevar — January 20, 2008 @ 1:16 pm
You would think that since they believe we, Native Americans, are some long lost tribe of Israel, they actually might give a damn, but noooo.
January 20th, 2008 at 2:25 pmProbably because we don’t pay that 10% tithe.
O Bigfoot (and John Kerry, and Jason M. Hendler, and the other motley assortment of knuckle dragging trolls who claim to hate this website and what it represents, yet post multiple times daily) are nothing more than Rush Limbots. Goose step to that Pretenders music intro, Limbots!
January 20th, 2008 at 2:26 pmlittle terrorists pals who just love to cut heads off and kill Americans. Is it me or am I missing something here??????
PHEW!!!
Comment by John Kerry — January 20, 2008 @ 12:52
Are you less dead if killed as “collaterol damage” as compared to beheading? At least with beheading you were granted the respect of an intentional death instead of the oops sorry we hand out by the 10’s of thousand.
January 20th, 2008 at 2:28 pmWOW!!! SO MUCH PROGRESS! SO MUCH ‘MISSION ACOMPLISHED’! SO MUCH POLITICAL RECONCILIATION!
January 20th, 2008 at 2:34 pmJanuary 20th, 2008 at 2:37 pm
Is it me or am I missing something here??????
PHEW!!!
Comment by John Kerry — January 20, 2008 @ 12:52 pm
Your missing your patriotism, a soul, a brain and the point. George Bush hasn’t cut anybody’s head off. Why? Becasue he’s a deserter who would never go into actual battle. Instead, he sends the multi-million dollar killing machines to drop bombs and chemicals on the unsuspecting, innocent populace, out enjoying a weding or a meal at a restaurant. Bush murders iraqis by the hundreds, yet some whackos cut off a head or two, and they’re the bigger terrorists? Those that never attacked us, or threatened us in any way except with words? Only a professional coward pansy like Bush could command the loyalty of such amateur coward pansies as bigfoot and JK, who has adopted the name of a decorated war hero who is 1000 times the man any repuke will ever be. These trolls are the very reason we’re losing the war, the world’s support, and our moral strength. And what pisses them off and sends them raving the most? the simple truth: George Bush is a war criminal and mass-murderer. there is no doubt of those facts, yet it gets the cowards upset. Go figure.
January 20th, 2008 at 2:38 pm“Want me to write them for you?”
Comment by John Kerry
Looks like you just did.
January 20th, 2008 at 4:41 pmI celebrate the fact that more and more of Iraq is coming under Iraqi control, the Iraqi military is more and more prepared to handle Iraqs own security, and this brings us closer to a more stable ally in the middle east, and brings us closer to the day U.S. troops can come home in victory.
The surge is working. Iraq is handling more and more of it’s own security. Insurgents are being defeated.
All constitutes good, clear, identifiable progress in Iraq.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — January 20, 2008 @ 10:54 am
Left out of your run-down of the situation in Iraq is the fact that there has been no political reconciliation, one of the TWO goals of the “surge” as stated by none other than the BUSH ADMINISTRATION itself.
So what to do? Drop one of the requirements and declare victory, of course. Constantly change the goals and you can do this in any situation.
January 20th, 2008 at 5:12 pmComment by John Kerry — January 20, 2008 @ 4:36 pm
Defending ourselves by invading a country that was no threat to us and was not involved in 9/11.
Real bright there, JK.
January 20th, 2008 at 5:16 pmLike we TORTURE people for the fun of it!
Comment by John Kerry — January 20, 2008 @ 4:36 pm
Torture is illegal, regardless of whether it is done for fun or not. It is a gross violation of basic human rights, and it constitutes a war crime when it is applied to prisoners of war.
you seem to forget that WE were attacked and what we are doing is defending ourselves no matter how you cowards want to twist things.
Iraq had nothing to do with the WTC attacks, and torturing hapless prisoners hardly qualifies as “defense”. It is a rather cowardly act.
January 20th, 2008 at 5:56 pmLike we TORTURE people for the fun of it!
Comment by John Kerry
from what I’ve seen that seems to be the only reason for it….nothing is gained by it…..that is documented. It’s just a sign of sickness…..
didn’t it look like they were having fun at abu ghraib?
January 20th, 2008 at 6:16 pmdidn’t it look like they were having fun at abu ghraib?
Comment by Fred — January 20, 2008 @ 6:16 pm
What our troll JK is trying to say is that, if torture is done for the “greater good”, then it’s a-ok.
What he doesn’t remember (short memory span is a common problem among Bush blind followers) is that Abu Ghraib was explained as “frat boys” letting out some “steam” (aka, having some fun) by Rush Limbaugh and his ditto heads.
January 20th, 2008 at 6:20 pmjk also very conveniently forgets (as traitors will) that the bulk of the attackers were Saudi, yet Bushieboy is filmed kissing Saudi ass all week long. it’s evident to all but the brain-dead rightards that the attack on iraq was simply Bush’s dick-waving at his old man. it was poorly executed and planned, and has resulted in bringing the USA to the brink of failure as a nation.
January 20th, 2008 at 6:40 pm“trying to understand what happened to you to make you hate the U.S. so much and I just can’t come up with an answer.”
First, I’ll start with your false premise. I don’t hate the USA, I hate the USA’s government. And “what happened to me” is very simple, in fact, two simpletons: Reagan and Bush. Two traitors, two America-haters whose first loyalty was to their rich friends and the corporations they used to rape the ordinary citizen. Those two losers are totally and solely responsible for 9/11 and the horrible fiscal and healthcare situations in my country. They play and trade with our sworn enemies, they kibbitz with terrorists and their funders; they trashed the Constitution whenever it suited their greedy, psycho purposes.
Want another 9/11? Vote Republican.
January 20th, 2008 at 7:31 pmWhat an idiotic thing to say and I’m sure even the leftist of the libs who are reading this know that political reconcilation cannot come until Iraq is secured militarily which, unfortunately for you cowards, IS HAPPENING!!
Then the “surge” is not yet a success, dumbass, despite McCain’s and Lieberman’s orgasms over the thought of it.
If you set two goals for an operation, you cannot declare success when only one of them has been even partially met.
January 21st, 2008 at 12:15 amBesides that, Republican supporters of this “war” and of the “surge,” such as Lindsey Graham, told us 4 months ago that political reconciliation was going to happen “within weeks.” This is much like Rumsfeld’s declaration of “I doubt the war will last 6 months” back in 2003.
If leaders in our government, from Congress to the White House, are going to set us up for quick solutions to the problems we face, then don’t b-tch and whine when we question why things are going so shitty in Iraq.
January 21st, 2008 at 12:25 amOne more thing, Johnny Boy. It was specifically a White House spokesman, Gordon Johndroe, who backed away from political reconciliation by saying back in August, “The surge was designed, as we have said repeatedly, to help bring security to Iraq.”
January 21st, 2008 at 12:33 amNO ONE has ever said that anyone from Iraq was one of the people who PHYSICALLY flew the planes, etc BUT it’s been proven that not only did top al Qaeda and Iraqi intelligence officials met many times but that Iraq was the home of loads of terrorists camps.
Source(s), please.
January 21st, 2008 at 12:34 amWell I see the radical right representitive jk has weighed in so…in his own words.
You wacko wingers are really out there tonight – doing what you do best: spitting out those old, boring, so well used winger talking point lies like:
“TORTURE does provide RELIABLE INTELLIGENCEâ€
Bullshit! TORTURE does not work and it HAS been proven to not.
see how silly you look jk.
January 21st, 2008 at 11:06 am254 bullshit
January 21st, 2008 at 12:24 pm