Surge Architects Tout ‘Success’ Of De-Baathification Bill As Reason To Stay ‘Heavily Engaged In Iraq’
Surge Architects Tout ‘Success’ Of De-Baathification Bill As Reason To Stay ‘Heavily Engaged In Iraq’
Today in a Washington Post op-ed, surge advocates retired general Jack Keane, AEI scholar Frederick Kagan, and the Brookings Institution’s Michael O’Hanlon trumpet Iraq’s new de-Baathification legislation as a first step in the surge’s “remarkable” success:
The full surge has been in place and operating for just over six months, and already violence has fallen dramatically across the country. The achievement in such a short time of significant legislation that requires all sides to accept risk and compromise with people they had been fighting only a few months ago is remarkable. It would have been unattainable without the change in strategy and addition of American forces that helped bring the violence down.
The authors pass off the bill’s problems by noting that the “legislation is imperfect, of course.” But many Sunni and Shiite officials have stated that the bill “could actually exclude more former Baathists than it lets back in, particularly in the crucial security ministries.” In fact, as Middle East expert Juan Cole has noted, the legislation was actually spearheaded by the most anti-Baathist groups and opposed by former Baathists.
Keane, Kagan, and O’Hanlon don’t let these concerns interfere with their sunny assessment, however, briefly writing that this “possible problem” will need to be “cleared up.” Last week, Kagan compared the bill to “the beginning of their [Iraqi] civil rights legislation.”
What does all this “good news” mean? According to the three armchair generals, it means that U.S. troops should stay in Iraq as long as possible, despite the recommendations of U.S. commanders:
Petraeus and Gen. Ray Odierno know the strains the surge has placed on the military and believe that we can reduce our forces to pre-surge levels by this summer without compromising our gains. Considering the big steps taken by Iraqi security forces over the past year, as well as the tremendous damage our forces and Iraqi forces, together with the Iraqi people, have done to al-Qaeda in Iraq, the Sunni Baathist insurgency, Iranian-backed special groups and the fighting elements of the Jaish al-Mahdi, this belief is probably justified. But we cannot be sure.
Absent from the online version — but present in the print edition — is the authors’ call to “plan to stay heavily engaged in Iraq for several more years.”
While Keane, Kagan, and O’Hanlon herald the Bush administration’s “ongoing engagement,” it’s important to remember that President Bush’s former appointee Paul Bremer was responsible for de-Baathification in the first place. In 2003, Bremer issued a sweeping order that outlawed Saddam Hussein’s Baath Party and dismissed all senior members from government posts. (This point is acknowledged in the online version of the op-ed, but is notably absent from the print version.)
UPDATE: Boston University professor Andrew J. Bacevich also writes an op-ed entitled “Surge to Nowhere” today in the Post: “In only one respect has the surge achieved undeniable success: It has ensured that U.S. troops won’t be coming home anytime soon. This was one of the main points of the exercise in the first place.”
UPDATE II: The Group News Blog has more on how the surge is supposedly “working.”
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Dewey, Cheatem and How want to stay in Iraq (even though none of them has the balls to be there) until the oil runs out. Then, too bad, Muhammed!
January 20th, 2008 at 2:58 pmAnd the Washington Post continues to scrape the bottom of a very deep barrel of slime. They are also publishing an op-ed today by disgraced AEI propagandist Kevin Hassett, co-author of the notorious and absurd book “Dow 36000″, a shameful piece of sophistry nakedly aimed at pumping the stock market at the peak of the bubble. Hassett’s piece today is another bit of sophistry, this time trying to convince people that the economy is not in recession.
The Washington Post truly is no better than the Washington Times, maybe even worse because it exploits its past reputation to legitimize Neocon propaganda and circulate White House press releases under the guise of journalism.
January 20th, 2008 at 3:10 pmbremer… for what will he be most noted and remembered for?
the “de-baathification”? or those ugly, scarring “bremer walls”…
or both, and so much more…
January 20th, 2008 at 3:18 pmThese guys need wheels for their goal posts, so they are easier to move.
January 20th, 2008 at 3:23 pmugh… bad grammar… just noticed… please excuse…
January 20th, 2008 at 3:29 pmThese guys need wheels for their goal posts, so they are easier to move.
Comment by Badger — January 20, 2008 @ 3:23 pm
A gocart, because they move it often, and very far from where they started. They must get tired pushing it.
January 20th, 2008 at 3:46 pmIf this is the best that the Iraqi gummint can do, the surge is a complete and total failure.
It’s primary mission was to get enough troops in place to put a lid on the sectarian strife so that the gummint could have ‘breathing room’ to move the reconciliation process forward.
Looks like some serious suffocation is occuring.
The telling paragraph:
But many Sunni and Shiite officials have stated that the bill “could actually exclude more former Baathists than it lets back in, particularly in the crucial security ministries.†In fact, as Middle East expert Juan Cole has noted, the legislation was actually spearheaded by the most anti-Baathist groups and opposed by former Baathists.
So it’s a law crafted by the anti-Sunni faction, opposed by the Sunnis and they call this “progress”
More neocolon fantasies.
January 20th, 2008 at 3:48 pmOT – A link has been established between the Valerie Plame and Sibel Edmonds.
For Christ sakes even Crooks and Liars is reporting on it. How long will TP continue its BLACKOUT of the Sibel Edmonds story?
A newly leaked letter reveals…
(a) government official warned a Turkish member of the network that they should not deal with a company called Brewster Jennings because it was a CIA front company investigating the nuclear black market. The official’s warning came two years before Brewster Jennings was publicly outed when one of its staff, Valerie Plame, was revealed to be a CIA agent in a case that became a cause célèbre in the US.
Every day you pretend this story doesn’t exist TP you lose credibility. This is the biggest politcal story of our times and you’re not reporting any of it? What’s your real agenda?
Full story at:
January 20th, 2008 at 3:48 pmhttp://www.bradblog.com/?p=5582
A rocket powered gocart…
January 20th, 2008 at 3:49 pmComment by katy — January 20, 2008 @ 3:18 pm
Depends on if we can ever get them to trial or not.
January 20th, 2008 at 3:49 pmOf course it’s imperfect, just like the “cakewalk” that’s killed 4000 American GI’s, cost a trillion bucks, and killed one million plus Iraqi civilians in a currently ethno-sectarian cleansed country.
January 20th, 2008 at 3:54 pmThese neocon liars and their media enablers have convinced a small segment of the country that the surge has worked.At this point even if 1,000 U.S troops died in one month they would say we have them on the ropes and this is further proof of our victory.These cowards will never be happy until our country fully collapses so they can swoop in and rebuild it from the ground up with their delusions.The neocons are the true enemy of this country and will be until they are violently put down.If you think talk and votes will cause them to give up the ghost,your just as delusional.
January 20th, 2008 at 3:57 pmOff topic but it’s sunday and God is resting:
Gaza goes dark.
January 20th, 2008 at 3:58 pmToward their movable goal posts, they seem to be riding toddlers’ Sit’ n’ Spins. They are whirling so fast now, they can’t see straight.
They can count on the public of short memories to keep cheering them.
January 20th, 2008 at 3:58 pmJuan C.
January 20th, 2008 at 4:03 pmIs anyone on TV news talking about this latest outrage in Gaza?
I bet they are still hashing and rehashing their primary results.
Also,
Does anyone notice that the networks have proclaimed Clinton the winner in NH and Nevada, but Obama has tied her for delegates in both states?
These guys are fµcking nuts. We shouldn’t be in their country.
January 20th, 2008 at 4:18 pmAh yes, the Glorious Surge…meanwhile the supposed calming effects the Iraq debacle was supposed to have on the region has caused a clusterfu*k of untold proportions.
Pakistan on the brink of civil war.
Afghanistan in dire straits with Slappy Gates insulting NATO allies over Bush’s abject failure.
Lebanon still can’t pick a president.
Nasrallah appearing in public in Lebanon to jeer Israel with gruesome tales of hold body parts in custody.
Turkey launching weekly raids into northern Iraq, which is a terrorist safe haven.
Israel in all out war in Gaza.
Saudi Kings telling Bush and Energy Sec. Bodman to STFU and quit whining about oil prices, they aint changing.
Ethipia and Eritrea ready for war.
Somalia a roiling war.
US diplomat killled in Darfur.
US diplomats targeted in Lebanon.
Russia telling the world: “We’ll launch nukes if you screw with us”
Yep, look at the peace that has broken out.
-GSD
January 20th, 2008 at 4:24 pmKeene and Kagan all along:
A butterfly flapped its wings in New Zealand – Absolute proof that the invasion was justified!!!!!
January 20th, 2008 at 4:29 pmO’Hanlon looks absolutely Neanderthal.
January 20th, 2008 at 4:40 pm“As reason to stay”
Wouldn’t you think that it’d be just the opposite.
And notice that there is no ‘real’ reporting from there.
Since the surge began, where are any of those reporters couped up in those hotel rooms? The surge is really in censorship and Green Zone happy talk.
∞
January 20th, 2008 at 4:40 pmThe discussion has passed from the strategic to the tactical; I put this down to the Surge having achieved a strategic victory, albeit a tenuous one.
Two things to look for in Iraq between now and the 08 election: Does Maliki’s government survive, and does Sadr renew the ceasefire?
Another possibility is that there will be an offensive by either Sadr or AQ in the Fall of 08 in an attempt to influence the elections. Whatever the radicals seek to achieve in this area is usually the opposite of what they hoped for, thankfully.
January 20th, 2008 at 5:02 pm“As reason to stayâ€
Wouldn’t you think that it’d be just the opposite.
Comment by alphainfinityomega — January 20, 2008 @ 4:40 pm
Those guys are full of shίt. If there’s more violence, the troops have to stay; if there’s less violence, the troops still have to stay. What these warmongers are trying to do is to save face at the expense of Americans and Iraqis in Iraq. It’s sickening.
January 20th, 2008 at 5:03 pmMeanwhile Osama is still at large.
January 20th, 2008 at 5:35 pm.
The “Surge is a Success” is another ‘bumper sticker’ slogan, made in China.
.
January 20th, 2008 at 5:36 pm.
2007 = Highest Troop Casualties = SUCCESS?
2007 = Highest civilian death rate = SUCCESS?
2007 = No political solution in place = SUCCESS?
WHAT DOES A VICTORY LOOK LIKE?
.
January 20th, 2008 at 5:39 pmTP is right on point… This PBS Frontline documentary (link below) shows exactly all of the moronic moves and the RePugniScums and their underhires and cronies sent over there to phu(k up the entire country. If you want to how and when this war was lost watch this:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/yeariniraq/view/
January 20th, 2008 at 5:39 pmFrom Scott Ritter’s “The Five Iraq’s”
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/12/31/6087/
Does Maliki’s government survive, and does Sadr renew the ceasefire?
a major domestic counterweight to SCIRI is the indigenous grass-roots Iraqi Shiite movement controlled by Muqtada al-Sadr.. Possessing similar geographic reach as SCIRI, the Iraq of the “Mahdi Army†is one which rejects the SCIRI proxy government operating out of the Green Zone as but a tool of the American occupation, and the SCIRI movement itself as a tool of Iran.
January 20th, 2008 at 5:39 pmWhile much has been made of the Sunni-Shiite divide, the fact is that one of the most serious threats to stability in Iraq is the emerging Shiite-versus-Shiite conflict between al-Sadr and SCIRI.
Im thinking we should slowly heat the saline water these giant- think-tank-brains float in and see if they jump out.
January 20th, 2008 at 5:41 pmAs RUCerious stated earlier this law is not what is seems. It was opposed by the Baathists, and supported byt the Shiites.
For more information see the Sunday January 13th post on Informed Comment by Juan Cole. (An excellent site for anyone looking for even a hint of deeper meaning in the Middle East.)
January 20th, 2008 at 5:44 pmMeanwhile Osama is still at large.
Comment by Xisithrus — January 20, 2008 @ 5:35 pm
Here is what it will take to get Osama:
1. Political stability in Pakistan sufficient so that
2. The Paki army can build up on the Eastern border of Waziristan so that
3. The US can create a credible plan for a pincer offensive out of Afghanistan which would require
4. The aforesaid Paki stability to allow serious use of US airpower in Wazirstan and
5. Enough success in Iraq that we can draw down to 100, 000 troops there and re-deploy 2 Brigades to Afghanistan for an offensive into Waziristan.
Nothing to it, eh?
January 20th, 2008 at 5:49 pmNothing to it, eh?
Comment by Keltoi at Night
As easy as turning our backs on him in Tora Bora and walking away.
January 20th, 2008 at 5:53 pmHere is what it will take to get Osama: -Keltoi
You forgot bombing Iran.
January 20th, 2008 at 5:53 pmKeltoi… A 2 Brigade American offensive into Waziristan would certainly END any political stability in Pakistan. If it were that easy, we would have already done it.
January 20th, 2008 at 5:54 pmHey, we should also reignite the cold war to catch Osama and make arms deals with Saudi, that’ll catch him.
January 20th, 2008 at 5:55 pmHere is what it will take to get Osama: -Keltoi
You forgot bombing Iran.
Comment by Xisithrus — January 20, 2008 @ 5:53 pm
Were we to launch an air capaign against Iran it would be to punish them for their 5th column activities in Iraq – which have been less of late.
So – Osama is only in play if Sadr renews his ceasefire. And none of this is going to get done by Bush. Hillary or McCain will have to figure it out.
January 20th, 2008 at 5:58 pmWhat’s their next freedom and democracy goal,
De-Iraqification of the country?
January 20th, 2008 at 6:00 pmThe only thing this is about , is creating the conditions for a successful OCCUPATION and the neocons have won the battle already (there never was one ), over the issue of occupation in the U.S. media . By not allowing ANY discussion , by not reporting obvious signs of a permanent occupation , the American people can drift away to other issues , as long as the are reminded that the ” surge is working, the surge is working ” .
Too much money is being made by Corporations , and too many myths need to be maintained , that the U.S. is not an Imperial aggressor , that wants to dictate it’s foreign policy , by military force .
The complicit media will never listen to Dennis Kucinich proving that the U.S. intends to occupy Iraq , for eons . You’ll never seem him interviewed on 60 mins .
January 20th, 2008 at 6:00 pmYou’ll never see , a round table of experts on CNN , discussing how occupation in Iraq , angers not just so called Islamics , but the TRUTH is it angers most Arabs . and how much it really costs Americans in blood and money , maintaining hundreds of bases all around the world , and the military expansion in the middle east, that provokes most Arabs . No you only hear rehash of ” not sending enough troops in , in the beginning ” or ” the surge is working , the surge is working ” woopee .
Were we to launch an air capaign against Iran it would be to punish them for their 5th column activities in Iraq – which have been less of late. -Keltoi
You are aware that SCIRI, which is supported by the US, is pro-Iranian?
January 20th, 2008 at 6:01 pmYou are aware that SCIRI, which is supported by the US, is pro-Iranian?
Comment by Xisithrus — January 20, 2008 @ 6:01 pm
Yes. We’ll support just about anyone who will keep the peace, witness our collusion with the Sunni Awakening. It is expediency…you need expediency when fighting a guerilla war, though.
Game Break! Congrats to NE Patriot fans – even if you are the fascists of the NFL.
January 20th, 2008 at 6:06 pmWere we to launch an air capaign against Iran it would be to punish them for their 5th column activities in Iraq – which have been less of late.
Comment by Keltoi at Night — January 20, 2008 @ 5:58 pm
What have they done in Iraq that wasn’t sanction by the Shiite led government in Iraq?
January 20th, 2008 at 6:08 pmYes. We’ll support just about anyone who will keep the peace, witness our collusion with the Sunni Awakening. It is expediency…you need expediency when fighting a guerilla war, though. -Keltoi
Well, surely you can see how this diversion into Iraq is undermining the war on terror, as Scowcroft said sometime back.
Fascists of the NFL?
January 20th, 2008 at 6:10 pmYes. We’ll support just about anyone who will keep the peace, witness our collusion with the Sunni Awakening. It is expediency…you need expediency when fighting a guerilla war, though.
Comment by Keltoi at Night — January 20, 2008 @ 6:06 pm
We’re not fighting a guerrilla war. We fighting people who want an occupying force out of their country and because of oil and other reason we’re still there.
January 20th, 2008 at 6:12 pmTell them its their new home country and send them over there.
January 20th, 2008 at 6:14 pmComment by 2MillionLightYearsToAndromeda — January 20, 2008 @ 3:48 pm
Many knew early on that Valerie Plame was outed to shut down illegal nuclear weapons deals involving our own government (plus RePugniScum war profiteers) and foreign govs. GW Botch and Dick(head) Cheney and major corps could have been indicted!! She had to be outed!
Yellowcake was the smoke screen.
January 20th, 2008 at 6:16 pmWashington Post = America’s “slime machine”. These “fascist thugs” should be behind bars rather than being quoted in the newspapers! Their day will come. When the american people hold these deluded fascists (PNAC) accountable and totally responsible for the collapse of this country (economically and politically) they’ll pay with their hides.
January 20th, 2008 at 6:18 pmAbsolutely! Valerie Plame’s outing had everything to do with the people discovering the real truth about our sick administration. Libby took the hit to obstruct justice with the promise of an immediate pardon. For this and so much more, Bush will never be forgiven.
January 20th, 2008 at 6:19 pmAIPAC pundit strategy for USA: grasp at straws.
January 20th, 2008 at 6:19 pmAnd the longer this war drones on, the coffers of the war pigs will continue to be filled with our money and the money of our ancestors whose debt is accumulating with each passing hour. These war profiteering swine are laughing all the way to the bank and their offshore accounts, foreign corporations, and hideaways in Paraguay!
January 20th, 2008 at 6:20 pmRegardless of what transpires in the upcoming election, there is a revolt of the middle class which has been brewing for some time. The People will take back control of our government and will prevail. These clowns who now believe themselves to be “above the law” will become walking “examples” of what years of lawlessness can do to one’s future. The storm is gathering and the people want justice.
January 20th, 2008 at 6:22 pmThere’s also another great depression looming which is planned by this government. Do you really think that the sub-prime mortgage bundling and misrepresenting as AAA rated was another “mistake”?? It’s all part of the plan to cripple the people and coup this democracy from within – converting it instantly to fascism. Maybe I’m suspicious or maybe I’m psychic but all of this hoopla about candidates and primaries leaves me quite bored because from my perspective all I see is another false flag occurring within the next 6 months which will postpone the election and maintain Herr Bush on his throne indefinitely under martial law. The coming Depression will set the stage.
January 20th, 2008 at 6:24 pmWhen our economy totally tanks, then the money transfer from the middle class to the crooks within will have been completed.
January 20th, 2008 at 6:25 pmI see: The “surge” is a remarkable success, hence the US must stay in Iraq indefinitely.
Is it me or you have to have suffered severe brain damage for this babble to make any sense at all?
January 20th, 2008 at 6:25 pmIt’s all contingent on the manipulation of the voting machines. If the GOP gets nailed again for hacking the machines, then they will be forced to be sidelined at which point “Plan B” comes into effect. If they can rig the voting machines (Diebold Opti-Scanner 91w) and make Hillary the candidate, then they know they’re in the white house for another 4 years and can complete their dirty little deeds.
January 20th, 2008 at 6:27 pmGregor: The GOP’s have elevated the term “psycho-babble” to new heights. The bullshit babble coming out about the surge is enough to make one surge with vomit. It’s all nonsense and lies. Besides, if you throw enough lives and money anywhere you can diminish the violence – via your own violence. We all know that drill: Violence begets further Violence. We’ve become masters at being violent.
But what has this surge or war accomplished short of killing innocent people and destroying their country? We’re still not going to get our grubby little greedy hands on their oil. Hah! Democracy, Bush says! We’re the poster child for democracy and don’t have it right here in this country right now! If that isn’t the height of hypocrisy, I don’t know what is.
The fact is that this occupation is illegal so it’s all become one huge “war crime”. As far as discussing the concept of “success”, someone needs to ask these morons one simple, basic question: WHAT IS THE DEFINITION OF SUCCESS? To date, no one has been able to answer it.
January 20th, 2008 at 6:31 pmThese three guys ought to move to Iraq if everything is rosy as they say it is.
January 20th, 2008 at 6:46 pmComment by Veritas — January 20, 2008 @ 6:27 pm
Hang in there V. While there’s lots to be disturbed about, there’s room for optimism too.
1. The greedy, and aggressive, are most vulnerable when they grow complacent.
2. Bushco is running out of people/stooges to throw under buses.
3. People on the inside, for whatever reasons, keep “leaking” damaging info.
4. There are more eyes on the powerful than ever before.
5. The neocons have been judged, and found lacking, by a majority of Americans.
And, most importantly, we must remember the strengths inherent in our system. We are one of the very few societies to undergo a civil war, and rebuild, without losing our identity.
Unless the worst happens, such as a “false flag op” followed by canceled elections, I think we can fix this mess. Particularly if We the People elect a better class to Congress. That’s the wild card. Who will be sitting in the halls of power and, will they be able to change our course? I have seen nothing to suggest we won’t see big changes aside from the Presidency. In fact, if we elect enough people of higher caliber? I don’t even think Hillary, who I don’t like or trust, could do too much more damage.
And, if all else fails, we have the best armed civilian population in history.
January 20th, 2008 at 6:54 pmComment by VerbalKint — January 20, 2008 @ 3:10 pm
The Washington Post truly is no better than the Washington Times, maybe even worse because it exploits its past reputation to legitimize Neocon propaganda and circulate White House press releases under the guise of journalism.
My feelings exactly! Good past reputation destroyed. Playing in the Moonie slop with the Washington Times.
January 20th, 2008 at 7:18 pmGee, now it’s become the “full surge”. The surge began last January and was supposed to last only 90 days. But I guess that was the quarter surge. Ninety days later, I guess the half surge began. Then the full surge. Next year it will become the double surge to be followed by the triple and then quadruple surges. It’s like the “last throes”. They were followed by the “last, last throes”, which were then followed by the “last, last, last throes”.
January 20th, 2008 at 7:19 pmIf you are interested in hearing one soldier’s perspective of the surge, who is still there, check out Fire Beneath the Ash.
January 20th, 2008 at 7:29 pmhttp://www.vetvoice.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=408
Comment by Chris L — January 20, 2008 @ 7:29 pm
powerful stuff, Chris, thanks for that. highly recommended.
January 20th, 2008 at 7:42 pmComment by Chris L — January 20, 2008 @ 7:29 pm
Thanks for the link! Great post!
And thank YOU for posting here! We need your comments and input!
January 20th, 2008 at 7:50 pmTell me how a democracy in the very heart of the islamo beheaders is a bad thing for America.
You’re describing Iran, moron. bert the squirt, never alert.
January 20th, 2008 at 7:54 pm#56 Comment by Impolitics — January 20, 2008 @ 6:54 pm
2. Bushco is running out of people/stooges to throw under buses.
Actually this is impossible… Unfortunately.
Good post Impolitics! I second your optimism. The thing to watch is the Democratic primaries. Many Blue Dog Dems, and other weak Dem. Congress critters are being challenged. This not to mention the heavy Rethug loss that will happen. If they lose the power shifts to the people, and I agree that:
I don’t even think Hillary, who I don’t like or trust, could do too much more damage.
January 20th, 2008 at 8:02 pmislamo beheaders. All sixteen of them.
Geebus, Bert, go find Ernie and give him some skull, wouldja?
I can’t remember the last time an occupying army was thought of as bringing ‘freedom’.
Romans?
Huns?
German Nazis?
January 20th, 2008 at 8:04 pmImpolitics: A nice dose of optimism brands the american indominable spirit; however when one punctuates that optimism with the fact that our voting machines (yes, even the paper ones which are counted by corrupt Diebold Opti Scan machines – see http://www.blackboxvoting.org for recent hacking of these new systems) are all hackable and these neocons absolutely WILL hack them again, then how does that optimism NOT turn to apathy or disgust?
In fact, these twisted sick neofascists believe that they know better than the people; ergo, they and the media get to select our highest officials. In fact, these psychologically damaged individuals actually believe it is their patriotic “duty” to control our elections….
January 20th, 2008 at 8:05 pm“Iraq and the freedom we have brought to millions just may be America’s finest hour.”
The weasel words are “just may.”
After five years of this neo-con pie-in-the-sky, little has changed. That’s longer than ww2. Surely Bert would be over there now, making sure of the freedom we have brought – if he only could crowbar his corpulent ass out of the barcalounger.
January 20th, 2008 at 8:08 pmMerlin: As we have seen in the differential between the hand counted paper ballots (accounting for 20% of the results in New Hampshire (MOL) and the Diebold hacked opti scan machines in 80% of the districts, the differences are troubling and quite indicative of the fact that these machines have been successfully hacked in less than 10 minutes.
The GOP “Plan” is to hack the primaries and then they won’t have to worry about hacking the elections – again – as they did in Ohio in 04 by running the totals through a bank building in Tennessee (operated by the RNC)…..
They’ll install Hillary as the winner because Obama or Edwards would mean jail time for many congressmen and officials of this corrupt administration.
They know that by making Hillary the “candidate”, when they get finished swiftboating her in the myriad of scandals surrounding her (Whitewater, Vince Foster just to name a few) – and, isn’t it totally amazing that the reichwingnuts are totally mute right now about any of this stuff?? Hmmmm……connect the dots, connect the dots…..
January 20th, 2008 at 8:09 pmComment by BERT CONVY — January 20, 2008 @ 7:51 pm
How about that surge huh Moonbats?
Duh. What surge… Yuk, yuk. Duh… you gotta funny name, bert… How’m I doin? uh bert? You sure are entertainin’. Folks from these parts love to hear you edurcated fellas talk ’bout them there polliticks. Tell us more ’bout that Errak, woodja? Yuk, yuk…
January 20th, 2008 at 8:10 pmOT, but just wanted to pipe in about this…
60 minutes tonight, global climate change the subject of last half (all i saw)… it may have been a repeat, but it NEEDS repeated…
many of the stories we’ve been hearing about and discussing here at TP for years… it ended with this particular story:
June 8, 2005: Media reveals Philip Cooney — a White House official who worked for the oil industry before joining the administration — is altering government documents to downplay links between fossil fuels and global warming. TP 6/14/05
also, NASA scientist james hansen was featured too…
his story appeared here a year ago…
it’s incredible the supression of information these last years…
i don’t know why i’m so surprised that so few know about this shite…
watch 60 minutes get trashed now (again)… the report was pretty harsh on the bushCO… deservedly…
January 20th, 2008 at 8:11 pmSome states are going paper ballots but NOT hand-counted. Hand counting, under supervision is what we did for Iraq and yet we cannot provide this fail safe system for ourselves?
Do not be fooled into complacency or belief that since your are using paper ballots then your election is “safe”….. if they are being counted using an opti scanner, bingo! – therein lies the problem; therein lies the easy hack job.
January 20th, 2008 at 8:11 pmKaty: Just watched some of this. Great information! Total “hit job” on the Bush administration to boot. Bush should spend the remainder of his natural life in prison for what he’s done to this country and how he’s contributed to the carbon emission problem on this planet. It’s no wonder why Detroit went bust and americans won’t touch an american-made auto. These fascist auto corporations met with The Dick, Cheney, who helped them decide to screw the people.
January 20th, 2008 at 8:13 pmCrimes against humanity, anyone?? Who’s keeping track of all of Bush’s crimes? Anyone??
January 20th, 2008 at 8:14 pm#72 Our own “enemy within” – that’s what these sickos actually are!
January 20th, 2008 at 8:14 pmHas Hillary Clinton said anything about brokering peace between Israel and Palestine, to end the building of settlements and foster the creation of two completely independent and sovereign states living side-by-side in peace? I’m not saying she hasn’t, but I haven’t heard anything about it from her. I think the Israeli-Palestinian deadlock is at the heart of a great deal of the violence and chaos in the Middle East and until we have a President who is committed to that (unlike the Chimp) we’re never going to be trusted in that part of the world. The Saudis are supposedly our allies, but that’s just the King and the military under him. The local population uniformly hates the U.S. And I fear that Hillary is very much at the command of AIPAC and the right wing Likud Party.
January 20th, 2008 at 8:15 pmReps hate facts: Thanks for the link. Sibel Edmonds will take down this administration of criminals….she’s in the process of doing it right now.
January 20th, 2008 at 8:16 pmStarveABush: Hillary actually attended the last AIPAC meeting! Can you believe it? She’s a card-carrying member.
January 20th, 2008 at 8:17 pmThese three are of the same spirit.
You know, the one with cloven feets, horns and barbed tail.
January 20th, 2008 at 8:24 pmOh, and would someone, anyone, tell O’Hanlon to stop using the blender on his hair in the morning, gawd.
January 20th, 2008 at 8:24 pmComment by Veritas — January 20, 2008 @ 8:09 pm
Thanks for your thoughts. I am aware of all you mention and I understand the dangers. However, as you ask above”
…how does that optimism NOT turn to apathy or disgust?
for me, I am disgusted and angry as well as a bit paranoid. But optimistic I remain. There is no penalty for being optimistic, as long as your head is not in the sand. On the other hand, there is a big penalty for being pessimistic. You feel lousy all the time in addition to being paranoid, disgusted and angry.
We can’t always control the circumstances around us, but we can do the best we can, and hope that the outcome is good.
January 20th, 2008 at 8:33 pmNothing to it, eh?
Comment by Keltoi at Night — January 20, 2008 @ 5:49 pm
TORA BORA
January 20th, 2008 at 8:33 pmWe can’t always control the circumstances around us, but we can do the best we can, and hope that the outcome is good.
Comment by Merlin — January 20, 2008 @ 8:33 pm
Well said, Merlin. It is a struggle…
January 20th, 2008 at 8:35 pmSometimes the error comes from an attempt to control too much around us. The need to control can be a source of tremendous stress which undermines a persons health, mentally and physically.
Attempting to gain control by manipulating others often backfires, and creates more tumult.
Control, and an obsession with control, often has it’s roots in fear and ignorance.
January 20th, 2008 at 8:46 pmShouldn’t we ALL hope for VICTORY????
Comment by John Kerry
see what I mean?
January 20th, 2008 at 8:47 pmComment by Nevar — January 20, 2008 @ 8:46 pm
Control, and an obsession with control, often has it’s roots in fear and ignorance.
And that is why we have so many rethugs and their enablers as chickenhawks. They are ignorant as hell and scared out of their little minds about life.
January 20th, 2008 at 8:58 pmOff topic but worth it.
From the Daily Kos
by BarbinMD
Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 02:08:45 PM PST
Ernest Benn provide a more accurate description of the wisdom of Mr. Kristol:
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.
That one line perfectly encapsulates the career of William Kristol.
January 20th, 2008 at 9:01 pmThey are ignorant as hell and scared out of their little minds about life.
Comment by Merlin
They cuddled up to the oil companies and the defense industry who told them they would be protected and always have gas for their cars if they just do as they’re told.
January 20th, 2008 at 9:02 pmFrom the article:
AEI scholar Frederick Kagan
Does it bother anybody else here that these neocon traitors are given high falutin titles by the media? This idiot is a “scholar?” Even TP does it here.
Call him what he is, I say. “Neocon think tank spokesjerk with his head in a soft warm place” Frederick Kagan.
January 20th, 2008 at 9:09 pmThere is no hope for “victory” in Iraq, unless one counts the military “victory” which was achieved within months. According to world opinion? We lost with the first bomb in Baghdad. History will not look kindly upon Bushco or any who supported them.
January 20th, 2008 at 9:17 pm.
#62 Comment by BERT CONVY — January 20, 2008 @ 7:51 pm
I hope that your head is in the sand, not up your read. Either way…
HOW IS THE SURGE WORKING?
2007 = Largest troop casualties = SUCCESS?
2007 = Largest civilian death rate = SUCCESS?
2007 = No political solution in place = SUCCESS?
Did you get that bumper sticker slogan at WallMart?
Was it made in China?
Democracy at gunpoint is not democracy at all, but instead, TYRANNY!
.
January 20th, 2008 at 9:27 pmThese fascist auto corporations met with The Dick, Cheney, who helped them decide to screw the people.
Comment by Veritas — January 20, 2008 @ 8:13 pm
i reacted by thinking, “and they’ve only screwed themselves”…
January 20th, 2008 at 9:58 pmbut, that’s not so, is it?
the companies may go down, may go bust, lose more jobs,
but those CEOs and other officers will be just fine, none the worse…
… selfish greed prevails…
Anybody remember last January when Bushie announced his “Surge,” which was supposed to last three months? And, by god, that was going to be it. The Iraqi government had better shape up or the US would change policy.
Twelve months later, and we are deeper in Bush’s rat hole of a failed War against Iraq. The announcement of Bush’s “Surge” last year led to a public outcry and demonstrations across the country. Bush and the Neo-Cons didn’t give a damn. They “Surged” anyway. Twelve months later, and we are deeper in shit.
January 20th, 2008 at 11:39 pmTP is right to be skeptical of this law, but anyone who thinks they know what consequences will come of it has their head up their ass. As noted in the critical NY Times’ item on the law, “[t]he proof of the measure will come in how it is applied.” There are some apparently beneficial aspects to the plan – such as introducing judicial review into the process – just as there are negative elements. But, as one Sunni opposed to bill said, “This law includes some good articles, and it’s better than the last de-Baathification law because it gives pensions to third-level Baathists.”
Again, I don’t know how this will be applied. But, if the articles of the law are obeyed and judicial review applied appropriately, it will be an improvement upon the current law and a basis for future reforms.
Let the bashing commence, lol.
January 21st, 2008 at 1:12 amMichael O’Hanlon along with his colleague Kenneth Pollack must be congratulated for their article in the New York Times few months ago that foreshadowed, after their visit in Iraq, that this might be a winnable war, that brought the wrath of the Jupiterian New York Times liberal pundits to cast their bolts upon their heads for saying so.
But since the success of the surge—which I too foreshadowed exactly one year ago in an essay of mine titled “Blueprint for Victory In Iraqâ€, published in Australia, would culminate in an American victory and make 2007 the Annus Mirabilis for president Bush—the liberal critics of the war like Frank Rich, Paul Krugman, and the vitriolic, but always charming, Maureen Dowd, not to mention others, have been stricken by Nemesis with the aphasia of muteness.
January 21st, 2008 at 2:03 amI have to laugh at the trolls who are here defending the “surge” as a success.
Weren’t we told this surge was short-term a year ago? Weren’t we told that it was meant to help political reconciliation?
Now, a year later, we are no closer to said political reconciliation than were were a year ago.
Even by Pres Bush’s own standards, this “surge” is not exactly something to brag about.
January 21st, 2008 at 2:16 am#99 – o’hanlon decided just a few months ago,4 & 1/2 years in,that iraq MIGHT be a winnable war??? – didn’t these guys predict victory back in 2003? – along with many other predictions that they all got completely wrong – yep congrats there.
January 21st, 2008 at 3:04 am#100 – pres bush has standards?
At some point, you must ask yourself, what would not be a reason to keep America in Iraq???? We have gone through every excuse in the world to go to Iraq and to stay in Iraq. When do we call these war mongers on their bullshit? What is it going to take?
WHY do we accept their assertions that the surge is working and that violence is down, when we hear on a daily basis about suicide bombings and ied’s? Why do we accept their precepts that the surge is working when we are PAYING Sunni’s not to attack us? Why have we continued to accept their fairy tale notions of this war from its inception to now? NONE of these people have ever been to war, NONE of these people have any experience dealing with war and NONE of these people have ever been in charge of a war, and yet when they speak, it is as if pearls of wisdom spewing forth from swine.
These people are supposed to be brilliant. From think tanks they just sit around and expound on their rightness even in the face of incredible evidence of their wrongness!!!!! There are other groups of people who do this same thing. They are mental patients.
January 21st, 2008 at 7:29 am#103 bert – where is the proof that democracy is thriving in iraq?
January 21st, 2008 at 10:29 amI’ll support the indefinite stay in Iraq…after they reinstate the draft. We will then see how long the occupation lasts when cowardly chickenhawks have their asses on the block. Kagan is a traitor.
January 21st, 2008 at 10:33 am*Waa-Waa-Waa”
That’s Bert’s real message. He can’t believe it’s all fallen apart in seven short years. Republicans are back in the minority, and irrelevent.
January 21st, 2008 at 10:41 amGeorge Bush is our President, get over it. He has given us the best economy in a hundred years, has brought forth a democracy where a brutal dictator and his sadistic sons ruled with rape and mass murders.
Iraq, may just be America’s finest hour. God Bless GW.
Comment by BERT CONVY — January 21, 2008 @ 8:40 am
The best economy? What specifically has Bush done that has specifically given us the “best economy”? In the last few weeks we very close came to hitting record oil prices (adj. for inflation). What’s that you say? Bush has no control over the prices? Then ring up the White House and tell him that, because I am sure that you remember him bashing Clinton and Kerry over the idea of halting deposits into the SPR in order to affect prices (”government does not need to control prices” he said) only to do that very same thing in an election year. I also remind you that last week he all but demanded that the Saudis increase oil production to lower prices (and they laughed at him).
As for the “democracy” in Iraq, I don’t yet believe it’s complete. Bush himself has said that it takes years for a democracy to be successful; as well, we’ve yet to see any significant movement in political reconciliation, one of the two goals, I remind you, of the “surge.” Yet we have the likes of McCain, Kristol, and Lieberman getting erections every time they shout “the surge has been successful!!!”
January 21st, 2008 at 11:55 amGeorge Bush has given us the best economy in a hundred years?
What kind of a parallel reality does this person live in, anyway?
Hasn’t he heard the US economy is flirting with a recession? It would make this the second recession under Pres Bush’s watch….
January 21st, 2008 at 11:58 amFYI, the real Bert Convy died a long time ago.
January 21st, 2008 at 3:21 pmWho would have thought that an entire political party would be working for America to lose a war, that every republican in the whole USA is on the side of our enemy?
Fixed Bert’s screed.
January 21st, 2008 at 5:29 pmFYI, the real Bert Convy died a long time ago.
Comment by Bonnie — January 21, 2008 @ 3:21 pm
and the fake Bert’s brain died at the same time.
January 21st, 2008 at 5:29 pmGeorge Bush is our President, get over it. He has given us the best economy in a hundred years, has brought forth a democracy where a brutal dictator and his sadistic sons ruled with rape and mass murders.
Iraq, may just be America’s finest hour. God Bless GW.
Comment by BERT CONVY — January 21, 2008 @ 8:40 am
LIAR!
January 21st, 2008 at 6:10 pmGeorge Bush is our President, get over it. He has given us the best economy in a hundred years, has brought forth a democracy where a brutal dictator and his sadistic sons ruled with rape and mass murders.
Iraq, may just be America’s finest hour. God Bless GW.
Comment by BERT CONVY — January 21, 2008 @ 8:40 am
I correct myself…C0CKSUCKIN’ LIAR!
January 21st, 2008 at 6:18 pm