Cheney emails missing from day leak probe started.
By on Jan 21st, 2008 at 12:27 pm
Cheney emails missing from day leak probe started.
Last week, House Oversight Chairman Henry Waxman (D-CA) revealed that the White House failed to preserve emails for at least 473 separate days. Waxman’s report said “Vice President Cheney’s office showed no electronic messages on 16 occasions from September 2003 to May 2005.” Among the sixteen days for which email are missing from Vice President Cheney’s office “is Sept. 30, 2003, the same day the day the Justice Department and the Federal Bureau of Investigation announced they were investigating who outed former CIA officer Valerie Plame Wilson.”
UPDATE: CREW has produced a report analyzing the major national news events that were going on around the dates of the missing White House emails.
UPDATE II: Marcy Wheeler has more.
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Ironically, Cheney’s office is missing emails from the very day President Bush told reporters he’d “take care of” whatever staff member had actually leaked the CIA agent’s name.
“Ironically” ????????????????
More like INTENTIONALLY …………..
January 21st, 2008 at 12:33 pmYet another GAP in White House Evidence leading to impeachment?
Rose Mary Woods works for Cheney?
I thought she had died?
January 21st, 2008 at 12:36 pmFormer CIA official Larry C. Johnson, who left the CIA in 1989, indicated Plame had been a “non-official cover operative” (NOC). He explained: “…that meant she agreed to operate overseas without the protection of a diplomatic passport. If caught in that status she would have been executed.”[5] Later, he wrote that “The law actually requires that a covered person ’served’ overseas in the last five years. Served does not mean lived. In the case of Valerie Wilson, energy consultant for Brewster-Jennings, she traveled overseas in 2003, 2002, and 2001, as part of her cover job. She met with folks who worked in the nuclear industry, cultivated sources, and managed spies. She was a national security asset until, supposedly, being exposed by Karl Rove and Scooter Libby.”[6]
Valerie Plame Wilson was identified in the New York Times as a N.O.C. by Elisabeth Bumiller, who wrote (5 October 2003):
But within the C.I.A., the exposure of Ms. Plame is now considered an even greater instance of treachery. Ms. Plame, a specialist in non-conventional weapons who worked overseas, had “nonofficial cover,” and was what in C.I.A. parlance is called a NOC, the most difficult kind of false identity for the agency to create. While most undercover agency officers disguise their real profession by pretending to be American embassy diplomats or other United States government employees, Ms. Plame passed herself off as a private energy expert. Intelligence experts said that NOCs have especially dangerous jobs.
Plame is known to have served in a classified position as a CIA officer. At his October 28, 2005, press conference, Special Counsel Fitzgerald noted:
Valerie Wilson was a CIA officer. In July 2003, the fact that Valerie Wilson was a CIA officer was classified. Not only was it classified, but it was not widely known outside the intelligence community. Valerie Wilson’s friends, neighbors, college classmates had no idea she had another life. The fact that she was a CIA officer was not well-known, for her protection or for the benefit of all us. It’s important that a CIA officer’s identity be protected, that it be protected not just for the officer, but for the nation’s security. Valerie Wilson’s cover was blown in July 2003. The first sign of that cover being blown was when Mr. Novak published a column on July 14th, 2003.
Fitzgerald writes:
If Libby knowingly disclosed information about Plame’s status with the CIA, Libby would appear to have violated Title 18, United States Code, Section 793 [the Espionage Act] if the information is considered “information respecting the national defense.” In order to establish a violation of Title 50, United States Code, Section 421 [the Intelligence Identities Protection Act], it would be necessary to establish that Libby knew or believed that Plame was a person whose identity the CIA was making specific efforts to conceal and who had carried out covert work overseas within the last 5 years. To date, we have no direct evidence that Libby knew or believed that Wilson’s wife was engaged in covert work.
In the February 15, 2005 ruling on the issue, the court’s opinion stated:
As to the leaks’ harmfulness, although the record omits specifics about Plame’s work, it appears to confirm, as alleged in the public record and reported in the press, that she worked for the CIA in some unusual capacity relating to counterproliferation. Addressing deficiencies of proof regarding the Intelligence Identities Protection Act, the special counsel refers to Plame as “a person whose identity the CIA was making specific efforts to conceal and who had carried out covert work overseas within the last 5 yearsâ€â€”representations I trust the special counsel would not make without support. (8/27/04 Aff. at 28 n.15.)
A Newsweek article published for the week of February 13, 2006 interpreted the information in the released documents to mean that Fitzgerald had indeed determined Valerie Plame was a covert agent.
Washington Post reporter Dana Priest notes that these possible compromises of her identity did not change her undercover status: “Plame’s case is different in that she was burned — not once, but twice. The first time was by Aldrich H. Ames, the CIA turncoat who is believed to have given the Russians the name of every covert operative in the Soviet/East European Division over 10 years beginning around 1985. Not knowing exactly whom he had outed, the CIA recalled hundreds of operatives, including Plame, for their safety. Still, her undercover status remained intact until July, when syndicated columnist Robert D. Novak identified her by name as a CIA ‘operative’ in a column about her husband, former ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV, whom the CIA had sent to Niger to check on allegations that Iraq was seeking to purchase uranium oxide there.
January 21st, 2008 at 12:38 pmCheney impeachment is long overdue.
January 21st, 2008 at 12:38 pmPlame leak:
Leaked by
Richard Armitage to
Karl Rove
Confirmed by
Bill Harlow
For the purpose of discrediting Wilson AND destroying WMD intelligence.
If the secondary portion of the foregoing was not intentional, it’s irrelevant.
The leaking of Plame’s identity destroyed the undercover Brewster Jennings WMD surveillance operation – and quite likely resulted in the death of dozens of covert operatives, about whom you will never hear.
Brewster Jennings likely had proof that the Pentagon was arranging delivery of WMD into Iraq for the invading US forces to “discover.â€
Additionally, Brewster Jennings likely had evidence of the Administration’s complicity in the events of 9/11.
Finally, Brewster Jennings could confirm that Iran was TEN YEARS away from having a functional nuke – which would totally screw-up the Israeli-led Pentagon plan to invade the entire Middle East under false pretense.
TREASON
IMPEACH
January 21st, 2008 at 12:38 pmSorry for the off-topic, but since today doesn’t exists a Think Fast thread, and I’ve found two articles closely related referring to the “inexistent” crisis:
Banks of China are in deep doo doo thanks to subprime crisis (meaning that they’ll sell cheap the subprime mortages they own to avoid more money losing?)
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080121/ap_on_bi_ge/china_banks;_ylt=AiEtVLHm4vDA4fYtYRgKlgis0NUE
Investors dumped shares because they were skeptical that an economic stimulus plan President Bush announced Friday would shore up the economy that has been battered by problems in its housing and credit markets. The plan, which requires approval by Congress, calls for about $145 billion worth of tax relief to encourage consumer spending.
Generalized plunge in world stocks:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080121/ap_on_bi_ge/world_markets;_ylt=AjNKVfqcz3sn4NmRijtcdj2s0NUE
“It’s another horrible day,” said Francis Lun, a general manager at Fulbright Securities in Hong Kong. “Today it’s because of disappointment that the U.S. stimulus (package) is too little, too late and investors feel it won’t help the economy recover.”
January 21st, 2008 at 12:39 pmI’m suddenly overcome by a powerful desire for yellow cake.
January 21st, 2008 at 12:39 pmhttp://www.tshirtinsurgency.com
damn plunger….can’t you just say what you think…..what do you think?
gimme a link.
January 21st, 2008 at 12:39 pmClosing down our best source of covert intelligence on WMD in the Middle East by making its covert status public – during a time of war – is akin to revealing troop movements and positions to the enemy – during a time of war.
It’s TREASON on it’s face.
Doing so for POLITICAL reasons is IMPEACHABLE.
BUSH, CHENEY, ROVE & LIBBY all knew that Plame was a covert agent – and a key enemy if their lies were to succeed. Everyone in the WHIG knew. They all conspired to prevent the truth about WMD from being made public
When referring to Wilson, each of them at one time or another referred to him as “a Democrat.”
That’s POLITICAL.
That’s ILLEGAL.
still not a word from these remaining supporters of Bush – the president stood in front of reporters more than once and claimed to have no idea where the leak of information to for example Judith Miller came from. In fact, the president knew, as he stood there, that he had specifically and authorized the exact leak in question, for the purposes of a vendetta with Joe Wilson.
the president hugely abused his authority and powers, wrongfully, and he stood in front of cameras and reporters and lied about it, willfully, repeatedly. he engaged in a willful conspiracy to go after Joe Wilson for debunking the lie about uranium, and he happily burned down a CIA operative and her operations with a LEAK of information. if there was a declassification, it was certainly not recorded or documented or communicated, and, in all likelihood, was made up after the fact once the Fitzgerald investigation got going.
This same president has deployed the NSA and who knows which other components of the national intelligence apparatus against the American people in direct violation of federal law.
he has abused and abused his trust and the power of his office, and it is time for him to leave that office.
.. “I don’t know of anyone in my administration who has leaked,” Mr. Bush told reporters in Chicago. But, he added, “If somebody did leak classified information, I’d like to know it, and we’ll take the appropriate action. And this investigation is a good thing.”
The president added, “There’s too much leaking in Washington. That’s just the way it is. We’ve had leaks from the executive branch and leaks from the legislative branch. I want to know who the leakers are.” …
George Bush, lying about his own leak: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/10/01/national/main575986.shtml
Donald Rumsfeld on Leakers of Secret Information:
… No, I’ll tell you about leaks. When a person takes classified information and gives it to someone who is not cleared for classified information, whether the person’s from the Pentagon or any department of government, they’re violating federal criminal law. And they ought to go to jail. That’s not complicated.
Kalb: What are the laws they are violating? Just –
Rumsfeld: The laws relating to classified information are quite strict as to who may be given access to that information. And so to the extent that people violate the rules with respect to classified information, they are breaking federal criminal law.
Now, they are also potentially putting people’s lives at risk, and that’s a very — it’s a terrible thing to do …
http://www.defenselink.mil/transcripts/2002/t04102002_t0410sd.html
Scott McClellan, lying about Bush’s leak:
“If someone in this administration leaked classified information, they will no longer be a part of this administration, because that’s not the way this White House operates.”
It’s the modern Republican way. Commit a crime today; legalize the act tomorrow.
Here is what Scott McClellan had to say on July 18, 2003:
Q: When was it [the NIE Report] actually declassified?
MR. McCLELLAN: It was officially declassified today.
According to Fitzgerald’s court paper – Libby disclosed information from the NIE to Judith Miller on July 8, 2003 – ten days earlier.
So, what was the official status of the report for those 10 days? If it was declassified prior to or on July 8, why was it only shared with Judy Miller, and not released “officially” until July 18?
January 21st, 2008 at 12:40 pmWill they ever be held responsible? Thanks Harry and Nancy, you are doing a heckuva job.
January 21st, 2008 at 12:42 pmOh dear, some more MIAs, but this go-round the GOPers are not up in arms about them…
On a side note, since the Diebolding of Obama’s victory by persons unknown in the New Hampshire Primary Election, Bill and Hill have got their sliming and smearing of Obama down pat; the only thing missing is the smirk…
January 21st, 2008 at 12:42 pmdamn plunger….can’t you just say what you think…..what do you think?
gimme a link.
Comment by Fred — January 21, 2008 @ 12:39 pm
Really man! Ever thought about paraphrasing?
January 21st, 2008 at 12:43 pmWhat is a few lost emails between friends when we’ve already abandoned the rule of law?
January 21st, 2008 at 12:44 pmCHENEY’S DAUGHTER WORKED FOR ARMITAGE !!!
ARMITAGE ASSOCIATES?
Story cached here:
http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cache:LBJvw5zYj00J:www.upi.com/view.cfm%3FStoryID%3D28022002-082742-5255r+cheney%27s+daughter+armitage+associates&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1
Cheney’s daughter offered State Dept. job
By ELI J. LAKE
UPI State Department Correspondent
WASHINGTON, Feb. 28 (UPI) — As Vice President Dick Cheney prepares for his tour of the Arab world next month, the State Department’s Near East Affairs Bureau is wooing his daughter for a high-level post, United Press International has learned.
Earlier this month, the State Department officially offered Elizabeth Cheney-Perry a job as the deputy assistant secretary of state for Near East affairs for regional economic issues, according to State Department and administration officials.
These officials — who spoke on condition of anonymity — tell UPI the new post was created specifically for the vice president’s daughter, adding that she will work primarily on economic development in the Middle East.
Prior to attending law school, Cheney-Perry worked for the State Department and the U.S. Agency for International Development between 1989 and 1993. After 1993, she took a job at Armitage Associates LLP, the consulting firm founded by the current deputy secretary of state, Richard Armitage. “She is actually an Armitage person, which a lot of people at the department are,” one senior State Department official told UPI on Thursday.
http://www.alternet.org/story/37490
The Other Cheney Behind the Scenes
By Robert Dreyfuss, The American Prospect. Posted June 13, 2006.
Since 2005, Dick Cheney’s daughter Elizabeth has held a powerful position guiding Middle East policy. And like father, like daughter: Liz is a key player in the push for regime change in Iran and Syria.
At the very heart of U.S. Middle East policy, from the war in Iraq to pressure for regime change in Iran and Syria to the spread of free-market democracy in the region, sits the 39-year-old daughter of Vice President Dick Cheney. Elizabeth “Liz” Cheney, appointed to her post in February 2005, has a tongue-twisting title: principal deputy assistant secretary of state for Near Eastern Affairs and coordinator for broader Middle East and North Africa initiatives. By all accounts, it is an enormously powerful post, and one for which she is uniquely unqualified.
During the past 15 months, Elizabeth Cheney has met with and bolstered a gaggle of Syrian exiles, often in tandem with John Hannah and David Wurmser, top officials in the Office of the Vice President (OVP); has pressed hard for money to accelerate the administration’s ever more overt campaign for forced regime change in both Damascus and Teheran; and has overseen an increasingly discredited push for American-inspired democratic reform from Morocco to Iran.
The Bush/Cheney administration has moved quickly to ensure U.S. corporate control over Iraqi resources at least through the year 2007.
http://sandiego.indymedia.org/en/2003/10/101475.shtml
Peter S. Watson, prior to becoming Chairman, President & CEO of the U.S. Overseas Private Investment Corporation, was Counsel to Winthrop Stimpson Putnam & Roberts advising on international business and trade policy matters.
He concurrently served as Senior Advisor to Armitage Associates, L.C. (As did Dick Cheney’s daughter, who was given the newly created post Undersecretary of State for Middle east Development.) National Security Advisor Condolliza Rice proudly admits she is also an Armitage protege.
THIS IS “ARMITAGE INTERNATIONALâ€
Founded in March of 2005:
http://www.armitageinternational.com/news/
January 21st, 2008 at 12:44 pmARMITAGE KNIGHTED BY THE CROWN:
http://www.btcnews.com/btcnews/1294
4/25/2006
OMG: Meet Richard Armitage, Knight Commander
Richard Armitage, the number two man at Colin Powell’s state department, has been knighted “for services to US-UK relations.†Presumably this is a reference to his diplomatic exertions on behalf of the invasion of Iraq.
Armitage, one of the innumerable Bush administration graduates of the Reagan era Iran-Contra school of murderous skullduggery, was made a Knight Commander of the Order of St. Michael and St. George (KCMG).
He was joined on the honours list by several US military officers, including Captain John Peterson.
Peterson’s claim to fame? “Peterson, chief of staff to the commander of the US navy in the Middle East, was awarded a CBE (Commander of the British Empire) for – according to the Pentagon – leading British and American forces “in the campaign to secure Iraqi oil assets†at the start of the 2003 invasion.â€
Absent his outstanding service, Iraq might be a shambles.
The news comes to us courtesy of Chris Floyd, who notes Armitage’s efforts on behalf of US-drug dealing terrorist relations during the Iran-Contra affair, and wonders whether even higher honors might be in store for the future former president, assuming that happy designation ever applies.
“ If Armitage gets this kind of gilded wheeze for mere minioning in some of the most murderous operations of the past half-century, then great googily-moogily, what’s George W. going to get, when he retires, for actually being the trigger-man for the world-convulsing killing spree in Iraq? Not to mention his relentless and ruthless gutting of the U.S. Constitution? What honor would suffice for this sterling service? No mere knighthood or baronage will do; Lizzie will have to adopt him into the royal family or something, name him heir to the throne.
After all, his whole life’s work has been aimed at overthrowing the American Revolution and restoring feudal rule by aristocrats, warlords, religious cranks and simpering courtiers. Why not just bring the whole thing full circle back to Buckingham Palace?â€
Armitage — whose former boss, Powell, was made a Knight Commander of The Most Honourable Order of the Bath (KCB), one letter less but one notch above Armitage’s KCMG, for his services in the first Gulf War — was nominated for the honor by British foreign minister Jack Straw, who is no doubt in line for recognition of his own role in facilitating the Mother of All Train Wrecks in Iraq.
January 21st, 2008 at 12:45 pmMy first thought when I entered this thread was “Oh God, plunger is here.”
January 21st, 2008 at 12:45 pmLooks like it’s a plunger thread. I’m outta here.
January 21st, 2008 at 12:45 pmI have no doubt that Armitage is the guy, because Emptywheel from the Next Hurrah had this pegged months ago. Logic nailed him. Here’s what SourceWatch says about him:
Armitage, considered to be a conservative “neo con” (neo-conservative), is a member of the Council on Foreign Relations.
[1]
http://www.foreignpolicy2000.org/convention/
He is one of the signers of the January 26, 1998, Project for the New American Century PNAC letter to President William Jefferson Clinton.
http://theindependentvoice.tripod.com/theindependentvoice/index.blog?entry_id=417960
[2] http://www.channel4.com/news/2003/special_reports/pnacletter.html
He is also a former board member for CACI International, the private military contractor, which “is being investigated by no less than 5 US agencies for possible contract violations” and “employed four interrogators at Abu Ghraib prison” in Iraq, one of whom was singled out by General Taguba in his report on abuses of Iraqi detainees at the prison.
[3]
http://counterpunch.org/palmer06152004.html
(snip)
“Richard Armitage, one of the Iran-Contra plotters, was a board member of Database Technologies (DBT)/ChoicePoint Inc before taking office under George Bush Jr. … Choicepoint is a partner of data mining company SAIC whose web site proclaims it has “developed a strategic alliance with ChoicePoint Incorporated to provide our clients with quick and effortless information retrieval from public records data. ChoicePoint Incorporated maintains thousands of gigabytes of public records data.”"
[5]
http://www.counterpunch.org/solo10012003.html
Wiki also says that in some of his government positions, he was a covert operative. But he didn’t know he should not be discussing information obtained from a classified document with reporters? He’s just “prone to gossip,†but they let him have access to classified info anyway. The little slime! I hope Valerie can bleed him dry financially for what he did. I for one will never buy that he didn’t do anything deliberately to hurt her or her husband. All of his prior experience says that he knew better.
Ann in AZ | 08.29.06 – 11:36 pm |
January 21st, 2008 at 12:46 pmAlways remember the WH reasoning on phone and email tapping:
You only have something to hide if you are a guilty terrorist!
So by the WH’s own logic – Cheney is guilty and maybe more.
Long past time to start impeachment proceedings!
January 21st, 2008 at 12:48 pmIf “reporters†covering the Libby trial had read President Bush’s Executive Order 12958 of March 28, 2003 – entitled “Classified National Security Information†– they would know that it does not give the vice president the authority to declassify anything.
In particular, it does not give Cheney the authority to declassify portions of the “highly classified†October 2002 National Intelligence Estimate on Iraq’s WMD capabilities.
And that Executive Order Directive most certainly does not – could not – give anyone the authority to willfully violate the Intelligence Identities Protection Act of 1982
http://www.antiwar.com/prather/?articlei d=10507
January 21st, 2008 at 12:49 pmI like plunger’s posts. Lots of info. I think it’s pretty obvious what he thinks.
He ventures into tricky territory and isn’t afraid.
January 21st, 2008 at 12:49 pmI’d rather get the long posts than nothing at all.
I suggest skipping them if they bother you. Just like I skip over Big-foot-in-mouth posts for example.
January 21st, 2008 at 12:52 pmI like plunger’s posts. Lots of info. I think it’s pretty obvious what he thinks.
He ventures into tricky territory and isn’t afraid.
Comment by mary
honey, this is a discussion forum….where is he interacting with anyone? He is publishing his book. And I think he is plaguerizing other people while he is doing it. It is troll behavior. It derails any disscussion and it alienates people who actuall want to discuss the issue……
January 21st, 2008 at 12:53 pmI can’t wait for the day Cheney & Bush are missing…
January 21st, 2008 at 12:56 pmThe dog ate my homework for a year and four months, Honest!
January 21st, 2008 at 12:57 pmhoney, this is a discussion forum
Comment by Fred — January 21, 2008 @ 12:53 pm
I agree with Fred. This is like someone delivering uninvited five minute soliloquys at a dinner party.
I do skip over plunger’s posts. But even this is tiring, when these posts take up 90% of the thread. It becomes difficult to even find the next non-plunger post.
And like Fred, I’m sure that plunger must be plagiarizing other people.
January 21st, 2008 at 12:59 pmIt’s been pretty obvious from day one that no incriminating emails would ever be presented by this administration. There is no rule these guys won’t break and they don’t know the meaning of doing the right thing.
January 21st, 2008 at 1:00 pmI’d rather get the long posts than nothing at all.
I suggest skipping them if they bother you. Just like I skip over Big-foot-in-mouth posts for example.
Comment by mary — January 21, 2008 @ 12:52 pm
Have to agree with Fred on this one. Plunger could paraphrase and then provide links to support his contentions. Such a format would be much more conducive for blogging.
then again, i’m just a dim wit……
January 21st, 2008 at 1:01 pmhoney? I ain’t your honey Fred.
I didn’t know that there was a rule that you had to interact with other posters to be allowed to post.
Like I said, ignore them, skip them, whatever. I, for one, do not feel alientated by his posts. They’re a helluva lot less alienating than some of the real trolls that come here and attack and insult people.
January 21st, 2008 at 1:02 pmAnother off-topic, but closely related with the subprime crisis: Where are the dollar bills?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/usatoday/20080121/cm_usatoday/ourviewonsovereignwealthfundswhennationsamassdollarsthefaultliesinourselves;_ylt=AnSQpHyEiWRdnLhO_ILxJLOs0NUE
January 21st, 2008 at 1:05 pmthen again, i’m just a dim wit……
Comment by dim wit — January 21, 2008 @ 1:01 pm
Yeah, but you’re OUR dim wit!
January 21st, 2008 at 1:05 pmWell see y’all later then. I sure wish you’d all be as critical of some of the real thread derailers that come here. Those jerks make real discussions impossible and make me skeddadle out of here pronto.
January 21st, 2008 at 1:07 pmLike I said, ignore them, skip them, whatever.
Comment by mary — January 21, 2008 @ 1:02 pm
Does “whatever” include include commenting on the boring length and repetitive nature of the posts?
January 21st, 2008 at 1:07 pmSo…..when does cheney go to jail?……anybody…speak right up.
January 21st, 2008 at 1:07 pmIf I’m not mistaken, he got booted before for this same behavior back when he went by “ace”
January 21st, 2008 at 1:07 pmhoney? I ain’t your honey Fred.
I didn’t know that there was a rule that you had to interact with other posters to be allowed to post.
Like I said, ignore them, skip them, whatever. I, for one, do not feel alientated by his posts. They’re a helluva lot less alienating than some of the real trolls that come here and attack and insult people.
Comment by mary
ok mary, I was out of line with the condecention of using honey…I apologize for that…..I stand by my opinion that if plunger wants to be taken seriously that he should discuss his opinions rather than quote books here….links are so easy these days and almost anyone can do it.
January 21st, 2008 at 1:08 pmDeath and deception ooze black blood from the ground.
Corrupt corporate cronies hubristically abound.
Hubristically????
January 21st, 2008 at 1:12 pmEvil Spaniard, your links about the market…#6 and #31 are terrifying…..when markets around the world are all dropping from 5 to 7 percent in one day I would think that we may have a serious problem.
My wife and I were talking about this and we couldn’t help but remember that when bush was appointed that we knew right then that it was just a matter of time before this happened…it always does with repulicans….they are able to prop it up and cover it up for a while but it always happens.
January 21st, 2008 at 1:13 pmIf I’m not mistaken, he got booted before for this same behavior back when he went by “aceâ€
Comment by Wilco — January 21, 2008 @ 1:07 pm
Yep he did
I like the links but the long posts multiple are irritating, personally.
And messy editing in his cut and paste, for example.
“Ann in AZ | 08.29.06 – 11:36 pm |”
Would also be nice if he actually discussed rather than spam and run.
January 21st, 2008 at 1:18 pmAs it is, I usually just skip them when the posts are spammed like that.
Ari Fliescher and a pack of multi billionaire warmongers are going to spend 250 million on pro-Bush ads.
So as America spirals down the toilet we are going to be exposed to thousands of slickly produced ads telling us how wonderful everything in the world is as a result of Bush’s policies.
That should be enough to cause a revolt among the people.
-GSD
January 21st, 2008 at 1:19 pmAmong the sixteen days for which email are missing from Vice President Cheney’s office “is Sept. 30, 2003, the same day the day the Justice Department and the Federal Bureau of Investigation announced they were investigating who outed former CIA officer Valerie Plame Wilson.â€
That’s just a coincidence. There’s nothing here folks…move along.
Really, though, why in the hell aren’t these people being held accountable for all the laws they have broken. They are required, by law, to retain all communications, including e-mails. So, if they set up a system where their backups were written over with new data (something I really doubt happened), they purposely broke the law. Come on Democrats, DO SOMETHING!
January 21st, 2008 at 1:21 pmPlunger is taken seriously by some.
And he does include links.
Why should anyone conform to your preferred method of posting? What about those of us who prefer the original language over paraphrasing? Who would rather not follow links?
What is your goal in criticizing Plunger – to change his/her style of posting, or to drive him/her off this site? If it’s the former, you should realize by now the futility of your efforts. If it’s the later, you would deprive us all of valuable information.
Perhaps you merely like to pick on people who don’t conform to your wishes? Or perhaps you’re just venting your pet peeve in a public forum. Whatever. I suggest you treat Plunger’s posts the same way you would like others to treat your posts. Nothing more, nothing less.
Peace.
January 21st, 2008 at 1:21 pmComment by plunger — January 21, 2008 @ 12:38 pm
Would you give it a rest. Your multi-page posts are becoming more irritating than the troll posts. Why don’t you do what everyone else does, provide a synopsis of an article and then link to the article. You are the world’s biggest plagiarist since you rarely link to the articles you use for your cut-and-paste operations.
January 21st, 2008 at 1:23 pmWould also be nice if he actually discussed rather than spam and run.
As it is, I usually just skip them when the posts are spammed like that.
Comment by Wayne — January 21, 2008 @ 1:18 pm
It would be nice if Ace/Plunger listened to the rest of us, but he never has. He’s doing god’s work, or something. My opinion is that he should start his own blog and blogwhore like everyone else, but that would require actually writing content instead of plagiarizing everyone else’s.
January 21st, 2008 at 1:23 pmI can hear the new GOP-er mantra:
How dare anyone attack the president while the nation is in a financial crisis!
-GSD
January 21st, 2008 at 1:24 pmThat should be enough to cause a revolt among the people.
Comment by GSD — January 21, 2008 @ 1:19 pm
The average person who only gets their news from the corporate filtered evening news does not even know anything is wrong.
These video zombies won’t revolt, unless Starbucks quits serving them lattes.
January 21st, 2008 at 1:25 pmI like plunger’s posts. Lots of info. I think it’s pretty obvious what he thinks.
He ventures into tricky territory and isn’t afraid.
Comment by mary
His posts are nothing more than plagiarized information from sources he doesn’t credit. Most people don’t even read them.
plunger – if you really want people to pay attention to you, stop spamming threads with your cut-and-paste plagiarized posts. Just post your opinion and if you want, then post a link.
January 21st, 2008 at 1:26 pmFrankly, I’m surprised plunger isn’t blaming this on Israel.
January 21st, 2008 at 1:28 pmIt would be nice if Ace/Plunger listened to the rest of us, but he never has. He’s doing god’s work, or something. My opinion is that he should start his own blog and blogwhore like everyone else, but that would require actually writing content instead of plagiarizing everyone else’s.
Comment by gummitch — January 21, 2008 @ 1:23 pm
Yep.
January 21st, 2008 at 1:28 pmWhat about those of us who prefer the original language over paraphrasing? Who would rather not follow links?
Comment by Briseadh na Faire
Then read a book……..I would rather follow links.
January 21st, 2008 at 1:29 pmTreason! Treason! We have a traitor in our midst! The Vice-President of our country is a traitor! We must act, or all is lost.
I post this in all seriousness.
January 21st, 2008 at 1:30 pmFrankly, I’m surprised plunger isn’t blaming this on Israel.
Comment by Wilco — January 21, 2008 @ 1:28 pm
A Tweety “Hah!” to you, Wilco!
Yeah, my favorite moment in plungerdom is when he concluded one of his rants with the assertion that the Mossad heard everything everywhere always, including your what your vet was saying. No kidding.
January 21st, 2008 at 1:31 pmExactly, Fred.
As I think, it’s a tainted spirit of “grab the money and run”. Corporations are allowed to engineer schemes to create a giantic purse of money, made of junk lending (lending without a solid base), by bending the laws, and specially common sense. Then, the ones inventing the scheme, grab the money, and when the market falls, because no one can support so much indebting and interests, the main generators of the crisis have reaped their benefits, and the ones too slow or too greedy, receive the impact of the money loss. Is yet again the crack of 1929, the Enron crisis, or the DOT COM one.
And well, the debt of the USA is a trade mark of that type of thinking, the idea that lending will solve everything. Unfortunely, these financial schemes end badly, when they are enough far of the day by day reality of people and money earning. Money can’t be invented, or simply printed, with nothing to back it. Greed is the main problem.
And well, on thread again: I work for a consulting company, and if I we had lost as many top importance documents, we’ll be out of the bussiness since some years ago.
January 21st, 2008 at 1:31 pmOk, so now we “know” that which we already knew or strongly suspected. The question now becomes, that which it always has been — what are you going to do about it?!?! WHAT? WHAT!
The bar is pretty low as nothing is expected from the current slate of Dem leaders in both the House and Senate. So, most anything you do could be a plus; provided, of course, you want to get your hands dirty and make whatever that might be binding or have some teeth or actually do something other than state the obvious. Just saying.
January 21st, 2008 at 1:32 pmThese video zombies won’t revolt, unless Starbucks quits serving them lattes.
Comment by Wayne
judging by the links by evil spaniard….especially in post #6 that day is not far away for us.
January 21st, 2008 at 1:32 pmComment by Briseadh na Faire — January 21, 2008 @ 1:21 pm
I’m sorry, I stopped reading after you wrote: “Plunger is to be taken seriously.”
could you bullet point the rest for me?
January 21st, 2008 at 1:34 pmI vote for Ace/Plunger.
He posts amazing stuff, usually in the morning, and not everyday.
Seems like he shows up about once a week on the really evil and serious stuff.
It’s much more palatable than a thousand bickering comments which say absolutely nothing.
January 21st, 2008 at 1:35 pmYeah, my favorite moment in plungerdom is when he concluded one of his rants with the assertion that the Mossad heard everything everywhere always, including your what your vet was saying. No kidding.
Comment by Keltoi at Night — January 21, 2008 @ 1:31 pm
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080121/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_spy_satellite;_ylt=AvHTWgngvK.9PR5lDAIhVpGs0NUE
The TECSAR is the first satellite of its kind developed in Israel, and ranks among the world’s most advanced space systems,” the statement said.
The satellite includes an advanced imaging system based on synthetic aperture radar, or SAR, technology, the statement said.
The development and launching cost tens of millions of dollars, the officials said. Within two weeks it will be possible to view pictures from the device, the officials said.
Israeli and Indian experts cooperated to launch the satellite with an Indian rocket from southeastern India, IAI said.
And, no, it’s no joke.
January 21st, 2008 at 1:36 pmOh, I forgot to add, I wonder how a tiny country of what? 6 million people? Can desing & pay for the launching of such a marvel of the engineering.
January 21st, 2008 at 1:40 pmThis is another “impeachable offense” against Dick Cheney. Violation of presidential records act is a criminal charge.
January 21st, 2008 at 1:40 pmComment by justasking — January 21, 2008 @ 1:36 pm
Yeah!!
JA is here to document all of our comments in his database!
While I can’t speak for Cheney at least JA knows how to preserve his comments along with everyone else’s.
Have you ever considered working for Cheney as a “documentation preservation” consultant? I know you have the credentials.
January 21st, 2008 at 1:42 pmIt’s much more palatable than a thousand bickering comments which say absolutely nothing.
Comment by Nevar
well nevar did you manage to wade through it until you found something worthy of reading about something that is actually happening right now like evil spaniards link to what is happening in the world outside of the US today….or did you miss it from all the scrolling?
please read this…all major world markets down 5-7percent….in one day
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080121/ap_on_bi_ge/world_markets;_ylt=AjNKVfqcz3sn4NmRijtcdj2s0NUE
January 21st, 2008 at 1:42 pmThe people are watching members of congress very, very carefully to see if they will continue their clear derelection of duty in not joining with Robert Wexler’s move toward impeachment. Any congressional member who does not sign on will find themselves out in the street when their term of office expires…..or better yet, with criminal charges against them for derelection of the duty which is mandated by their oath of office.
This lack of email activity ironically beginning at the outset of the Plame treasonous affair will become prima facie evidence in court toward Cheney’s impeachment.
January 21st, 2008 at 1:43 pmFred: The only thing left in this fascist “coup” is the total decimation of the financial markets. And, unfortunately, that’s just around the corner.
January 21st, 2008 at 1:43 pmThe trash heap of “impeachable offenses” now against Cheney and Bush are knee deep at this point. They can no longer be “sidestepped” or “shoved under the rug”. They are consuming this administration in one giant gulp!
January 21st, 2008 at 1:45 pmVeritas, I think you overestimate the American people. We’ve seen this bs going on for years; people are just used to it. There is no movement for impeachment, and that’s the only way there ever would be an impeachment.
January 21st, 2008 at 1:47 pmCongress won’t do it because it will hurt them politically. I just don’t seem impeachment happening.
There’s too little time and too little support. There’s no outrage in America.
As far as plungers spamming….please, he is not posting anything we don’t already know and if you don’t then maybe you don’t understand what the internet is for.
January 21st, 2008 at 1:48 pmHave you ever considered that you’re really ARE a dim wit?
Comment by justasking
It’s really funny that “you’re really ARE” asking that
January 21st, 2008 at 1:48 pmFred: The only thing left in this fascist “coup†is the total decimation of the financial markets. And, unfortunately, that’s just around the corner.
Comment by Veritas
what does this mean? americorp?
January 21st, 2008 at 1:51 pm~Bet you wouldn’t tell that to people who try to advertise their blogs in here. Don’t worry. I already did. That’s where you PLAGERIZED MY COMMENT.
Comment by justasking — January 21, 2008 @ 1:36 pm
And which blog is that? And posted as which sock puppet? Didn’t you claim not to be a troll?
January 21st, 2008 at 1:52 pmComment by justasking
Seriously?
Are you just a caricature of yourself?
That’s some funny sht!
January 21st, 2008 at 1:54 pmwe went through this for the last two nights with justaskin…..you must ignore.
January 21st, 2008 at 1:56 pmhttp://www.timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=497698&category=OPINION&newsdate=7/7/2006
Cheney behind turn toward dictatorship
Excerpts:
The United States is currently caught up in a new campaign for a military dictatorship rule by a military chief with absolute power. The White House, inspired by Vice President Dick Cheney, has argued that in time of great danger, the President has unlimited powers. If he cites national security, he can do whatever he wants — ignore Congress, disobey laws, disregard the courts, override the Constitution’s Bill of Rights, — without being subject to any review. Separation of powers no longer exists under this view. The President need not consult Congress or the courts, only the vice president, the attorney general and God.
Moreover, the rights of the commander in chief to act as a military dictator lasts as long as the national emergency persists, indefinitely and permanently.
Many, perhaps most Americans, wouldn’t mind. The President is tough on terrorists and that’s all that matters. What is the Bill of Rights anyway? Mr. Bush, his supporters will argue, is a good man, even a godly man. He won’t misuse the powers, even if the power he claims is no less than Hugo Chavez exercises in Venezuela.
Mr. Cheney is a vile, indeed evil, influence in American political life. He is a very dangerous person who would if he could destroy American freedom about which he and his mentor prate hypocritically. His long years in Washington have caused him to lose faith in the legislative and judicial processes of the government. The country, he believes, requires a much stronger executive. Such concentrated power would have been necessary even if the Sept. 11 attacks had not occurred. Mr. Cheney uses the fear of terrorists as a pretext to advance his agenda of an all powerful president, a military dictator.
So long, of course, as he is a Republican.
January 21st, 2008 at 1:57 pmAs for all the accusations, the stuff that’s not clearly attributed with links is nearly ALWAYS written by me:
The CABAL has literally looted the US Treasury in the greatest heist ever conceived.
Rumsfeld’s Department of Defense was the conduit utilized. After the 2000 “election,” Rummy rewarded Zakheim with a low-profile but strategically important position – Comptroller, i.e. head money man, of the Defense Department. Dov Zakheim was the Comptroller who worked for him who actually did the deed before being secreted away to a cushy consulting job at Booz Allen.
WHERE IS THE MISSING $2 TRILLION ???
Dov Zakheim was the Pentagon’s comptroller and CFO during 9/11. Over $2 trillion is unaccounted for during his tenure. He was (is?) Corporate VP at System Planning Corporation, a major player in the “Homeland Security” industry. One of the products that SysPlan sells is the Command Transmitter System, a remote control system for planes.
http://www.sysplan.com/Radar/FTS
The CTS is a tunable UHF FM transmitter.
Many takeoff and lending tests were performed using this system on a commercial size Boeing aircraft under the supervision of Raytheon in the days prior to 9/11.
RAYTHEON’S ROLL IN 9/11:
5 EMPLOYEES OF RAYTHEON WITH EXPERTISE IN UNMANNED AERIAL VEHICLE SYSTEMS DIED ON THREE SEPARATE FLIGHTS ON 9/11
http://www.rinf.com/columnists/news/raytheon-connection-to-9-11
WHAT ARE THE ODDS?
Stanley Hall Raytheon Director of Electronic warfare program management. Raytheon did the retrofit of the A-3 that hit the Pentagon, where Bush claimed Flight 77 hit it. Disappeared on American airlines Flight 77.
Peter Gay Raytheon VP of Electronic Systems on special assignment at the El Segundo, CA division office where the Global Hawk UAV remote control system is made. Disappeared on American airlines Flight 11, the one that hit the North World Trade Tower I.
Kenneth Waldie Raytheon Senior Quality Control for Electronic Systems. Disappeared on American airlines Flight 11, the one that hit the North World Trade Tower I.
David Kovalcin Raytheon Senior Mechanical Engineer for Electronic Systems. Disappeared on American airlines Flight 11, the one that hit the North World Trade Tower I.
Herbert Homer Raytheon Corporate Executive working with the Department of Defense. Disappeared on United airlines Flight 175, the one that hit the South World Trade Tower II.
FIVE OF RAYTHEON’S FLIGHT TERMINATION SYSTEM EXPERTS ALL GO MISSING ON 9/11?
STOP.
THINK.
Cheney ran the 9/11 operation from the bunker using NORAD to accomplish it. Hundreds were in on the scheme, and today, thousands know the truth.
ISRAEL’S ROLL IN 9/11:
Seated behind Mohammad Atta on 9/11 was an Israeli Mossad agent, Daniel Lewin.
WHAT ARE THE ODDS?
STOP.
THINK.
Atta was sitting in seat 8D. In front of him were the two brothers, Wael and Walid Al-Shihri. Behind him was his comrade in his final days, ‘Abd Al-’Aziz Al-’Omari. To Al-’Omari’s left was the Israeli Mossad agent, Daniel Lewin, and right behind him, the man who would kill him, Sattam Al-Suqami.
In those exact moments, a group of Mossad agents were waiting in Manhattan for the first plane. They had surveillance and filming equipment with them. Meanwhile, F-15 planes were on high alert in Otis air base, 150 miles away, not knowing in which direction to fly.
CHENEY CONFUSED THEM WITH HIS WAR GAMES.
It is noteworthy that in those moments, the Mossad agents here, according to eye-witnesses, were dancing and cheering in front of the WTC. The Israelis were arrested in New York. Later, they were moved to Washington, and from there to Israel, and the report was quickly suppressed.
http://web.archive.org/web/20021003225412/http:/abcnews.go.com/sections/2020/DailyNews/2020_whitevan_020621.html
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article7545.htm
So Cheney actually ran the show on 9/11.
Our Treasury has been looted.
Our military has been degraded.
Our National Guard has been sent abroad.
Cheny works for George Bush Senior.
Bush Senior works for Israel AND China.
Next up:
Use of the same “flight termination” system to fly massive aircraft into nuclear power plants causing the Chernobyl effect in Miami, New Jersey and LA – with a possible fourth in Atlanta…all designed to effectively destroy the US economy and system as we know it.
Israel has already aligned with China to take advantage of the situation.
The US Dollar will be worthless. Why do you think the price of gold is racing so high?
All of this is coming BEFORE the elections – possibly as early as September.
Laugh it off if you choose, but unless Cheney is physically removed from office and tortured to reveal the plan, it will happen.
Your Democracy is already dead. A coup has already occured.
Will you go down without a fight?
Cheney, Rove, Rumsfeld, Bush, Zakheim, Feith, Libby, Pearle, Wurmser, Chertoff and many others need to be physically interrogated.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2006/05/12/fbi-searches-home-of-3-a_n_20876.html?p=16#comments
January 21st, 2008 at 2:00 pmRun with it, Congressman Wexler.
January 21st, 2008 at 2:00 pmIt is worth recalling that then Attorney General Alberto Gonzales waited at least 12 hours and perhaps as long as four days “to officially notify the White House about the investigation and tell them to preserve any and all materials related to” the Plame affair.
For more on the magically disappearing emails on White House backup tapes, see:
January 21st, 2008 at 2:00 pm“Tales of the Tape.”
this is what justaskin was doing all night last night:
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/01/20/12009/#comments
please take a moment to read post 309 if you don’t do anything else….then decide for yourself
January 21st, 2008 at 2:01 pmI welcome all posters but Trolls.
Deliberately derailing a thread is wasting everyone’s time. Trolls can post on the Mutual Admiration Society page.
One thing not said about Plunger’s posts is the topic…I’m surprised some of you state ‘you know all that’…I didn’t know much of what Plunger has posted.
January 21st, 2008 at 2:01 pmZim, I think only Fred said he knows all the stuff plunger posts.
January 21st, 2008 at 2:02 pmI ignore it.
BEFORE 9/11…
VALERIE PLAME LED THE “JOINT TASK FORCE ON IRAQ”
IN THE SPRING OF 2001 – SHE RECEIVED WORD TO “RAMP IT UP!”
SOMETHING WAS COMING – A PRETEXT – THAT WOULD LEAD TO AN INVASION OF IRAQ
THIS WAS KNOWN TO PLAME IN THE SPRING OF 2001
WHEN 9/11 HAPPENED – SHE KNEW THAT THE GENERALS HAD ADVANCED KNOWLEDGE OF IT – AS THIS WAS INSTANTLY REVEALED TO BE THE PRETEXT FOR THE INVASION OF THE MIDDLE EAST.
VALARIE PLAME KNOWS FOR A FACT THAT 9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB.
DICK CHENEY DID IT.
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20060918/corn
January 21st, 2008 at 2:03 pmAs a computer geek I know that if the Dems find the email administrator they will find those missing emails. Computer geeks never delete anything of value because they know that sooner or later that information will be need again – probably by the owner of the information.
Find the email server admistrator and he/she will produce the emails – I’ll betch five bucks.
January 21st, 2008 at 2:05 pmThanks, Wilco.
On Topic, even if they ‘find’ the missing e-mails, it would be held up in court long after the Bushlickers are gone.
Support Wexler’s impeachment plan!
January 21st, 2008 at 2:05 pmHardly a sniff of this in the MSM. So much for that liberal bias.
January 21st, 2008 at 2:05 pmThe fact the emails are missing is evidence enough to show obstruction of justice.
January 21st, 2008 at 2:06 pmO Fred,
Don’t act as though you’re so innocent.
I heard that you hack people’s computers for personal information.
That’s really low.
Comment by justasking
careful little one….you will cross the line….slander is illegal and prosecutable and your isp is logged…..sure you want to play with me little one?
January 21st, 2008 at 2:07 pmI think the Ahole should be Impeached….write to your congressperson at the house level and tell them u support an Investigation into Cheney….don’t write ur Senators because Pelosi and other’s will just toss it away……I think we should TOSS ALL OF THEM OUT and start over and get people in there with some BALLS
January 21st, 2008 at 2:07 pmHardly a sniff of this in the MSM. So much for that liberal bias.
Comment by hellinabucket — January 21, 2008 @ 2:05 pm
There have been some wire service articles picked up by a few papers (hmmm, wonder if they’re McClatchy?) but nothing like the sort of coverage it should be getting. More evidence of a supine “free press”.
January 21st, 2008 at 2:10 pmFred:
Posting 309 that you linked above relates directly to the behavior of Personal Attack used on this thread – typically to silence others.
As for the reason why I don’t spend much time engaged in dialogue in these threads, refer to post 309. Some of these threads run on for hours with two idiots simply arguing back and forth. Who do suppose they work for? Talk about derailing a thread.
When you see a long-ass rant above my name, and no link for attribution, assume I wrote it instead of assuming I ripped it off.
The “benefit of the doubt” is sort of a requirement for civil discourse.
I’m here to share the knowledge gained through thousands of hours of research, to get the truth out, to end the Fascist Coup.
Period.
January 21st, 2008 at 2:12 pmMore evidence of a supine “free pressâ€.
Comment by gummitch — January 21, 2008 @ 2:10 pm
Either the press is more interested in Lindsey Lohan working at a morgue (community services) or, because is bought and paid, or both, simply the disconnect of the US press with its political intricacies, and in a greater measure, in foreing world, is really a big chasm.
January 21st, 2008 at 2:12 pmcareful little one….you will cross the line….slander is illegal and prosecutable and your isp is logged…..sure you want to play with me little one?
Comment by Fred — January 21, 2008 @ 2:07 pm
What a total dick.
January 21st, 2008 at 2:14 pmCheney’s OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE extends far beyond the Libby/Plame fiasco. This is the tip of a Titanic-sized iceberg. Follow the trail all the way back to 9/11 – and even prior to 9/11.
GHW Bush, Ken Lay, Dick Cheney and Don Rumsfeld conspired to take back the White House from the Clinton regime. They decided upon using Lay’s Enron trading platform to create a FAKE ENERGY CRISIS in California to set the stage for the “oil experts” to seize power in order to implement the PNAC plan in concert with the Neocons. GHW forged this alliance when they conspired to plant Lewinski (a Mossad “Swallow”) next to Clinton.
9/11 was part of their plan. Bush, Cheney, and the rest all work for David Rockefeller. It is Rockefeller’s globalists strategy (with Israel as its focal popint) that is being slowly revealed – piece by piece.
Was it Cheney who ordered Chertoff to kill the Ptech Investigation??? And Remember “Operation Greenquest?†That investigation was killed too!
http://rigorousintuition.blogspot.com/2005/01/michael-chertoff-and-sabotage-of-ptech.html
A tipster was Indira Singh, who has said she recognizes the separate command and control communications system Mike Ruppert describes Dick Cheney to have been running on September 11th as having “the exact same functionality I was looking for (Ptech).”
The Ptech case turned into an ugly dispute last year when company whistleblowers told Greenquest agents about their own suspicions about the firm’s owners. Sources close to the case say those same whistleblowers had first approached FBI agents, but the bureau apparently did little or nothing in response. With backing from the National Security Council, Greenquest agents then mounted a full-scale investigation that culminated in a raid on the company’s office last December. After getting wind of the Greenquest probe, the FBI stepped in and unsuccessfully tried to take control of the case.
Whatever the truth, there is no dispute that the case has so far produced no charges and indictments against Al-Qadi or anyone else connected with Ptech.
What role did Dick Cheney play in killing the investigation into Al-Qadi?
Now, how does Chertoff figure in the Ptech story? It goes back to the turf war of two years ago over Operation Greenquest, “the high-profile federal task force set up to target the financiers of Al Qaeda and other international terrorist groups.”
Clearly ptech represent some nexus between the government and terorism that must not be revealed, and Chertoff is just the man to cover it up.
Comverse/Ptech CEO, Kobi Alexander, is central to 9/11 along with Dov Zakheim. Alexander, though wanted on federal charges, is in the witness protection program.
Ask Cheney specifically about Kobi Alexander – and the whereabouts of the $7 trillion of DOD funds stolen by Dov Zakheim to pay for the coup.
January 21st, 2008 at 2:16 pmCongress won’t do it because it will hurt them politically. I just don’t seem impeachment happening.
There’s too little time and too little support. There’s no outrage in America.
Comment by Wilco
I totally disagree with you. I see plenty of outrage in America. The problem is the MSM isn’t going to tell you about it. They don’t want Bush impeached so they won’t tell people about their crimes and the movement for impeachment. I also disagree that bringing articles of impeachment against Bush/Chaney would hurt the Democrats politically. I firmly believe that if they were to bring articles of impeachment we would see the approval ratings for Congress go through the roof. One very big reason for the low approval ratings is because the Democrats are doing nothing about Iraq and nothing about holding Bush & Company accountable for their crimes.
January 21st, 2008 at 2:17 pmThe financial links between those who lied, and those who benefited as a direct result of the lies (primarily in the oil and military industries – to say nothing of Israel) are clear. The evidence that the President’s speech knowingly included a lie about the Niger Yellow Cake is proveable in a court of law under oath.
That the Vice President knew for a fact that the claim was based on a forgery in advance of the President’s speech is a given (he ordered that the forgery be created and sent Ledeen to do it). That he instructed others to ensure that the sentence made it into the speech is also a given. What did the Vice President know, and when did he know it?
Every time the Vice President knowingly lied to the American People to advance the cause of war, he committed a crime against the United States which both directly harmed other US citizens and directly enriched himself.
Indict Dick Cheney for Fraud.
Section 1031. Major fraud against the United States
(a) Whoever knowingly executes, or attempts to execute, any scheme or artifice with the intent -
(1) to defraud the United States; or
(2) to obtain money or property by means of false or fraudulent pretenses, representations, or promises, in any procurement of property or services as a prime contractor with the United States or as a subcontractor or supplier on a contract in which there is a prime contract with the United States, if the value of the contract, subcontract, or any constituent part thereof, for such property or services is $1,000,000 or more shall, subject to the applicability of subsection (c) of this section, be fined not more than $1,000,000, or imprisoned not more than 10 years, or both.
(1) the gross loss to the Government or the gross gain to a defendant is $500,000 or greater; or
(2) the offense involves a conscious or reckless risk of serious personal injury.
The outing of Valarie Plame falls into precisely the same category, as it was specifically designed to ensure that the lead up to war continued apace…
January 21st, 2008 at 2:18 pm“Mr. Cheney, are you actually in the employ of Mr. David Rockefeller, directly under George HW Bush?”
“Was 9/11 and all that has followed just part of Mr. Rockefeller’s Globalist agenda?”
“Since our invasion of Afghanistan, which was clearly planned well in advance of 9/11, the oil barons have managed to secure their pipeline, and George HW Bush and his CIA are enjoying record opium production. Are we to believe that these are all just happy coincidences?”
“The day prior to 9/11, Donald Rumsfeld held a press conference to announce that his Comptroller, Dov Zakheim, had somehow lost track of some $2.3 TRILLION in DOD funds. Can you tell us whether those funds have been utilized to implement a military coup, the pretext for which occured the very next day, on 9/11 2001?”
“Mr. Cheney, what can you tell us about the SWIFT LUCK GREENS CONCENTRATION CAMP which was built by your former company, Halliburton, in your home state, Wyoming, adjacent to the Seminoe Reservoir south of Casper at these coordinates –
Latitude: 41.92
Longitude: -106.521944
Isn’t this part of the civilian inmate labor program, in concert with DHS and the Army?”
January 21st, 2008 at 2:19 pmThings weren’t entirely different early on with Watergate, except that one major newspaper continued to nag on the subject. Eventually, all the daily papers had to start paying attention (back when daily papers actually had any significance) but the story could just as easily have been buried and Nixon would have served out his second term.
It’s funny, too, because the press was certainly more than willing to jump all over Clinton and the bj.
January 21st, 2008 at 2:20 pm.
Cheney on Meet The Press:
Videotape, March 16, 2003):
MR. RUSSERT: And even though the International Atomic Energy Agency said he does not have a nuclear program, we disagree.
VICE PRES. CHENEY: I disagree, yes. And you’ll find the CIA, for example, and other key parts of our intelligence community, disagree.
And we believe he has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons. I think Mr. ElBaradei, frankly, is wrong. And I think if you look at the track record of the International Atomic Energy Agency and this kind of issue, especially where Iraq is concerned, they have consistently underestimated or missed what it was Saddam Hussein was doing. I don’t have any reason to believe they’re any more valid this time than they’ve been in the past.
Regarding Cheney’s frequent trips to the CIA, Russert asks if he applied pressure to achieve a desired intelligence work product:
MR. RUSSERT: No pressure?
VICE PRES. CHENEY: Shouldn’t be any pressure. I can’t think of a single instance. Maybe somebody can produce one. I’m unaware of any where the community changed a judgment that they made because I asked questions.
MR. RUSSERT: If they were wrong, Mr. Vice President, shouldn’t we have a wholesale investigation into the intelligence failure that they predicted…
VICE PRES. CHENEY: What failure?
MR. RUSSERT: That Saddam had biological, chemical and is developing a nuclear program.
VICE PRES. CHENEY: My guess is in the end, they’ll be proven right, Tim.
So I say I’m not willing at all at this point to buy the proposition that somehow Saddam Hussein was innocent and he had no WMD and some guy out at the CIA, because I called him, cooked up a report saying he did.
That’s crazy. That makes no sense. It bears no resemblance to reality whatsoever.
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3080244/
January 21st, 2008 at 2:21 pmThe vice president also said: “If we are successful in Iraq, if we can stand up a good, representative government in Iraq that secures the region so that it never again becomes a threat to its neighbors or to the United States, so it’s not pursuing weapons of mass destruction, so that it’s not a safe haven for terrorists, we will have struck a major blow right at the heart of the base, if you will, the geographic base of the terrorists who have had us under assault now for many years, but most especially on 9/11.”
White House National Security Adviser Condoleeza Rice, in an interview aired late Tuesday on ABC’s “Nightline,” said one of the reasons Bush went to war against Saddam was because he posed a threat in “a region from which the 9/11 threat emerged.” But she insisted, “We have never claimed that Saddam Hussein had either direction or control of 9/11.”
Her remarks echoed those of Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld during a briefing for reporters at the Pentagon earlier Tuesday. Asked if Saddam was personally involved in the Sept. 11 attacks, Rumsfeld replied, “I’ve not seen any indication that would lead me to believe that I could say that.”
White House spokesman Scott McClellan reiterated to reporters yesterday that the administration never directly linked Saddam to the Sept. 11 strikes.
“If you’re talking specifically about the September 11th attacks, we never made that claim,” McClellan said. “We do know that there is a long history of Saddam Hussein and his regime and ties to terrorism, including al-Qaida.”
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/attack/140133_bushiraq18.html
YET THROUGH APPARENT OSMOSIS:
WHO BRAINWASHED THE TROOPS IN IRAQ?
How is it that according to a recent Zogby Poll, nearly 85% of active duty troops in Iraq actually came to believe that they are there specifically to avenge the attacks of 9/11?
What type of active PsyOps program was approved by Rumsfeld to ensure this result to motivate these troops in this way?
When these atrocities were committed, did the guilty troops actually believe that they were taking revenge for the attacks of 9/11?
Was that their mindset?
If so, how did that come to be?
What role has Rumsfeld played in allowing the myth to be perpetuated throughout the military – that we are in Iraq specifically to avenge the (FALSE FLAG) attacks against the United States on 9/11?
How does our Defense Department set about demonizing an entire race of people to make them easier to kill?
How was that message SOLD to the troops?
They SOLD us a terror attack.
They SOLD us a war.
They SOLD the troops a lie to motivate them.
RUMSFELD = WAR CRIMINAL
PRESIDENT BUSH ADMITS THERE WERE NO WMD IN IRAQ.
PRESIDENT BUSH ADMITS IRAQ HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH 9/11.
FBI ADMITS BIN LADEN HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH 9/11.
Wash, Rinse, Repeat.
PRESIDENT BUSH ADMITS THERE WERE NO WMD IN IRAQ.
PRESIDENT BUSH ADMITS IRAQ HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH 9/11.
FBI ADMITS BIN LADEN HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH 9/11.
January 21st, 2008 at 2:22 pmbilbo, I just don’t see much outrage outside of blogs.
January 21st, 2008 at 2:22 pmAnd sure, the True Left will be thrilled to see them held accountable, but when so much of this election will be dependent upon independents (yes, I know that’s per the MSM), they want to be as careful as possible.
They are politicians. Therefore, they’re not moral. Nothing is more important than the pursuit of power. When given the choice between doing what’s right and what will get them more power, you see time and again which way they go.
while you post miles of text that no one is going to read…..I mean really even the ones that say they support you don’t read all of it….anyway while you are fixated on that the world stock market is crashing…..I guiess what you have to say is more important, huh……
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080121/ap_on_bi_ge/world_markets;_ylt=AjNKVfqcz3sn4NmRijtcdj2s0NUE
January 21st, 2008 at 2:24 pmI mean this is happening right now. Not something that is posted on 30 different websites and has been there some of it for years…..
all major world markets down 5-7 percent……that doesn’t seem important enough to discuss?
January 21st, 2008 at 2:26 pmIs it too late to withdraw my vote for Plunger=puss?
January 21st, 2008 at 2:28 pmOK, this is plunger’s spam thread now, later all
January 21st, 2008 at 2:29 pmComment by Fred — January 21, 2008 @ 2:26 pm
Sure, it is important. But right now the thread is about Cheney’s potential obstruction of justice, which is a very serious offense if it can be proven.
Or at least that’s what the thread was originally about…
January 21st, 2008 at 2:29 pmO Fred,
Don’t act as though you’re so innocent.
I heard that you hack people’s computers for personal information.
That’s really low.
Comment by justasking
oh and plunger…the thing you called me a dick over…..I guess you don’t read everything either….you don’t consider this to be slander?
January 21st, 2008 at 2:29 pmI agree Fred, this is very serious stuff.
Can we fault the world for not believing Doofus?
January 21st, 2008 at 2:29 pmIt’s clearly obstruction.
January 21st, 2008 at 2:31 pmThis government is corrupt from top to bottom as evidenced by none of them being held accountable.
Gregor
January 21st, 2008 at 2:32 pmit was introduced in post 6 by evil spaniard and I don’t know about you guys but this is not a small thing……..did you read the article……all world markets down 5-7 percent….that’s the story of the day….the week….the month…..it could be the story of the year before it’s over if it doesn’t correct………
Comment by Fred — January 21, 2008 @ 2:32 pm
I am agreeing with you that this is not a small thing. However, even Evil Spaniard began his post with “I know this is off-topic, but…” or something like that. That is all I am saying too.
January 21st, 2008 at 2:35 pmImpeach Pelosi for obstructon of justice. This dumb beotch stands their with her fingers in her ears saying “I cant hear you”
January 21st, 2008 at 2:37 pmWhen, finally do the American people AND the gutless media AND any candidate call these clowns on BULLSHIT???
Have we lost our nerve? Do we as the people no longer get a voice?? We do get the opportunity to throw these bums out BEFORE it’s too late or is it already??
What do we do NOW to stop this??
January 21st, 2008 at 2:37 pmFred:
Actually – most people don’t realize that the monetary policies are set by a PRIVATE CABAL – the BANKSTERS – the “Fed.”
The “Federal Reserve” is a not “Federal.” It is private – and Greenspan personally assured the destruction of the housing market when he blew this bubble up to its massive climax.
I remember well the day he gave the speech that lit the fuse. He effectively said:
“If you’re in a 30 year mortgage, you’re a fool…adjustable rate mortgages are the path to riches.”
The FED has been feeding us bogus numbers. All of the numbers released by the government relative to the economy are false – chosen to create appearances and outcomes, not chosen based in reality. The entire government has become politicized, and the truth is only revealed when it’s too late to do anything about it.
Greenspan lied about the actual rate of inflation, which it has recently been revealed by Richard Fisher, the President of the Dallas Federal Reserve, was actually a half point higher than the government was telling us at the time they were driving mortgage lending rates to zero.
At a time when the Fed SHOULD have been taking away the punchbowl – Greenspan made a personal appeal to be reckless with your home financing and flip into a three year or five year ARM – borrow against your equity – and spend it.
HOW MUCH DID GEORGE BUSH AND DICK CHENEY INFLUENCE FED POLICY FOR POLITICAL GAIN? WAS IT BUSH WHO DEMANDED 0% INTEREST RATES, AND GREENSPAN WHO COMPLIED?
Greenspan met with Cheney HOW MANY TIMES? They met for breakfast at Cheney’s house on January 14, 2001, a week before the inauguration, and nine days before Greenspan’s thumbs-up-on-tax-cuts testimony to Congress.
Greenspan retired in January. The housing bubble he created has yet another 30%-plus to fall.
The conspiracy to entrap homeowners into indentured servitude is complete.
January 21st, 2008 at 2:38 pmThis is a significant finding.
In the 1996-2000 period it was apparently necessary for the chairman to visit the White House about 12 times per year, or once per month. For no apparent reason, Mr. Greenspan’s visits to the White House tripled from just 12 in 2000 to 37 in 2001, when Bush took office. Starting in January 2001, the same month Mr. Greenspan began cutting rates and flip-flopped on the Bush tax cuts, he visited the White House at least three times per month, with the only slowdown in June and July of that year.
What were previously monthly meetings continued to skyrocket to over one per week in both 2002 (55 meetings) and 2003 (68 meetings).
These White House meetings since 2001 were with officials at the highest level, something Mr. Greenspan did not do in 2000 or apparently since 1996 based on his monthly meetings there. For example, in 2003 he met with the President once, Vice President Cheney seven times, Condoleezza Rice six times, and Chief of Staff Andy Card three times. In March 2003 he had 14 White House meetings, and in July 2003 he met with six members of the Cabinet, including Colin Powell.
Such increasingly frequent meetings at the most senior level, including the Oval Office, are appropriate for a politician but not a central banker, whose political independence is paramount. The noteworthy increase in these meetings since 2001 is puzzling and problematic.
http://bigpicture.typepad.com/comments/2004/05/fed_chiefs_cale.html
The chairman has met with Vice President Cheney at least 17 times since early January 2001; Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld, 11 times; Rice, 12 times; Card, six times; Powell, once; Deputy Defense Secretary Paul D. Wolfowitz, twice; and Cheney’s chief of staff I. Lewis Libby, once, according to the Fed’s copies of Greenspan’s schedule.
Greenspan had at least four official appointments with Cheney and one with Rumsfeld before the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, according to the Fed records.
It is not clear from the records whether Greenspan might have had more such meetings, since a number of appointments are described only as “White House meeting,” or “White House lunch,” without specifying the participants.
Greenspan has known Cheney and Rumsfeld for decades, having served with them in previous Republican administrations. Before Sept. 11, Greenspan was already calling more frequently on the White House and various cabinet secretaries, including then-Treasury Secretary Paul H. O’Neill, another long-time friend from the Ford administration and private business.
“Vice President Cheney has known Alan Greenspan for many years in a variety of roles, throughout their careers, and the vice president has high regard for him,” said Cheney’s spokesman Kevin Kellems. “In terms of the content of their meetings, I don’t know what they discuss. One would assume that a number of current issues of mutual interest would come up. But there’s nothing more I can do to accurately describe them.”
With Rumsfeld, “It’s a personal and professional acquaintance that they’ve maintained over the years,” Lawrence T. DiRita, the chief Pentagon spokesman, said Tuesday. “They see each other from time to time. That’s not unusual. It’s a meeting without an agenda. They enjoy each other’s company, they respect each other’s intellects, and it’s private — there’s no staff in there when they meet.”
Greenspan also has a personal connection with Wolfowitz, whose father was one of the chairman’s professors at Columbia University.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5074781/
It’s strange that Alan Greenspan hasn’t been blamed for the housing bubble. After all, he set the “easy money” policies that put the whole thing in motion and he’s the one who should be held responsible when it goes up in smoke.
For example, when Greenspan lowered rates to 1% in 2002 he knew that money would surge into the economy and create the appearance that everything was hunky-dory. Predictably, the economy sputtered along from the economic activity generated by the housing boom and from the 30% increase in government spending.
But, what else did Greenspan’s lower rates achieve?
Well, they achieved the results for which they were designed; they kept the economy humming along while Bush dragged the country to war, they kept the American people asleep while $400 billion per year in Bush tax cuts were siphoned from the US Treasury, and they generated what the “The Economist” calls this “the biggest bubble in history”; the housing bubble.
All of these were purely political choices made at the Federal Reserve under the auspices of Fed-chairman Greenspan.
Greenspan, who prides himself on studying every abstruse fact and figure about the economy, was fully aware of the speculative bubble that was emerging before his eyes. He also knew about the “interest only loans”, “the no-down payments”, the shaky lending practices, and the exaggerated prices, but just like the 1990s, when he had every opportunity to raise marginal rates on stocks and stop the bleeding, he kept the game in motion.
Greenspan knows all about “irrational exuberance”; he’s its primary champion. The Fed seduces the public with cheap money, so that credit spending increases and, then, “presto”, millions of Americans slip inexorably into indentured servitude.
Isn’t this what’s happening right now?
The American public is presently mortgaged up to the hilt with most of their personal wealth invested in their homes and with the highest level of personal debt in any period since the Great Depression.
Not good.
Especially when we consider that the current bubble is “larger than the global stock market bubble in the late 1990s (an increase over five years of 80% of GDP) or America’s stock market bubble in the late 1920s (55% of GDP).”
Or, when we consider that “over the past four years, consumer spending and residential construction have together accounted for 90% of the total growth in GDP.” (The Economist”)
Or, when we consider that 2 out of every 5 jobs in America are now related to construction. One blip in the housing market and we’ll all be hawking pencils on the street corner.
Regrettably, this Greenspan-generated pyramid scheme is headed for the dumpster. The fundamentals for securing a loan have all been abandoned; putting traditionally unqualified applicants in a position to buy a home. 42% of all new home buyers cannot even come up with a few thousand dollars for a down payment. Equally disturbing is the fact that “nearly one third of all new mortgages this year call for interest-only payments (in California, it’s almost half)” (NY Times)”
The Fed’s “cheap money” policy has spawned a “creative financing” monster and the speculation in the housing market has grown accordingly. A full 36% of homes are bought either for investment or as second homes; “the very definition of a financial bubble.” (Economist)
“Speculation”? Not according to Colonel Greenspan. According to him, it’s just a bit of “froth” in the market.
“Froth”? The biggest bubble in history!?!
Of course, none of this even vaguely resembles the activities of a “free market”. The market is not free when a privately owned banking system like the Federal Reserve sets the prime rate according to its own political-economic agenda.
Most people have no idea to what extent Greenspan has abandoned his principles to carry out his task as the country’s foremost class-warrior. Earlier in his career, Greenspan proclaimed, “Deficit spending is simply a scheme for the confiscation of wealth”.
Hmmmmm?
The lesson of the housing bubble is simple: whenever monetary policy is put into the hands of privately owned institutions like the Federal Reserve, those policies will invariably reflect the narrow interests of the men who own them and the members of their class.
That’s why Thomas Jefferson warned, “Banking institutions are more dangerous than standing armies.”
http://www.counterpunch.org/whitney08172005.html
http://www.communitycurrency.org/joycelynn.html
CIA
At least four of those named to the Commission and staff have links to the intelligence apparatus.
Several years ago, Zgibniew Brzezinski talked about Operation Cyclone, which he initiated in 1979 at the end of Jimmy Carter’s presidential term. The CIA helped foster Islamic fundamentalism in Afghanistan to destabilize the region because of the Soviet Union — and oil.
The program continued throughout the 1980’s when G.W. H. Bush was vice president and CIA assets like bin Laden and Saddam Hussein directly or indirectly carried out U.S. covert activities and shadow government policies.
The March Commission hearings on counter-terrorism ignored this important information.
Council on Foreign Relations
Another player on the foreign policy scene is the Council on Foreign Relations.
Half of those named to the Commission — Kissinger, Mitchell, Kean, Hamilton, Lehman, and Gorelick — are members of the CFR. Rice was on the nominating committee in 1991.
Ellen Mariani has named Peter C. Peterson, chair of the Council since 1985, in her RICO suit (PD #14). As part of the shadow government, the Council has influenced national security policy so that its titular head has profited in arms and oil.
Since 1950, the Council on Foreign Relations has been David Rockefeller’s child. The Council bills itself as a research and educational institution. However, the CFR serves the interests of Rockefeller’s global empire of oil and financial interests (Exxon, Chase Manhattan Bank, JP Morgan Chase).
The two world trade center towers were sometimes called David’s and Nelson’s as the brothers were the driving forces behind the monuments to capitalism.
While the Council has 2,000 to 3,000 members — movers and shakers in politics, media, and corporate board rooms, the Historical Roosters of Directors and Officers show key CFR players are key players on the global scene: Allen W. Dulles, the first CIA director, was a primary CFR participant from 1927 to 1969; William (McGeorge) Bundy, National Security Advisor in the Kennedy and Johnson administrations and an architect of the Vietnam War, was editor of the Council’s publication, Foreign Affairs, from 1972 to 1984. Others notables include Averill Harriman; Brzezinski; George H.W. Bush; Kissinger; Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan, and Dick Cheney.
Photos from the CFR 1991 annual report near the end of the first Bush administration portray a snapshot of the Council near the end of the first Bush administration. David Rockefeller’s picture is prominent throughout the report. The cover is a picture of the Council’s headquarters on New York’s upper East side. Other photographs include Cheney in Paris, October 1990; the President of Mexico and David Rockefeller, and Cyrus Vance with the Security General of the U.N. and David Rockefeller. That 1991 meeting was prescient looking at the Gulf and the Future of the U.N.
Another photo is of Ahmed Chalabi, founder and former chair of Petra Bank, at a March 1991 round table discussion on the topic For Democracy in Iraq: the Case of Iraq’s Opposition. Today, Chalabi is leader of the Iraqi political organization and the interim Iraqi government with close ties to the Bush administration. He gave the current Bush administration misleading and fabricated information before the U.S. invaded Iraq last year.
January 21st, 2008 at 2:39 pmyou got a point or do you just want me to read it because you posted it…none of that is new or news to me…..
January 21st, 2008 at 2:44 pmOT, but – The DJIA is rock solid today. ;) That could change tomorrow when the US markets are open. Has anyone seen any info on off-market trading? I cannot see anywhere to put my investments except into the money market. Only small gains there, but no retreats.
January 21st, 2008 at 2:46 pmThe stock market does not exist, but for the Plunge Protection Team – your tax dollars, in a blender:
http://www.financialsense.com/fsu/editorials/mackenzie/2004/0617.html
Today they are jamming the dollar higher on a totally fake move, while crushing gold…all with US Treasury paper.
January 21st, 2008 at 2:51 pmAsking plunger to stop has apparently caused him to issue longer diatribes. Maybe those who have a problem with plunger would serve everybody better if they’d just ignore him.
January 21st, 2008 at 2:53 pmwe went through this for the last two nights with justaskin…..
you must ignore.
Comment by Fred — January 21, 2008 @ 1:56 pm
yea… and YOU were b!tch!n about plunger…
maybe he should save it for 1-3am to add some spice in with
THOSE “discussions”… yeesh…
keep it up, plunger, as i know you will…
…
i do agree that michael?/justaskin warrants the IGNORE signal…
January 21st, 2008 at 2:53 pmit’s sure seems hard to do though… too bad…
.
yea… and YOU were b!tch!n about plunger…
maybe he should save it for 1-3am to add some spice in with
THOSE “discussionsâ€â€¦ yeesh…
keep it up, plunger, as i know you will…
…
i do agree that michael?/justaskin warrants the IGNORE signal…
it’s sure seems hard to do though… too bad…
.
Comment by katy
All you seem to contribute to the situation is to pass judgement on those of us who have been here dealing with them…..while trying to carry on….I hardly believe that you have a complete grasp of what has been going on here this weekend and I resent your statements. Try to be involved instead of just dropping by and telling us we are doing it wrong…….I seriously haven’t figured out how to handle it most of the time but I tell you this….I’m about done with this whole situation….
January 21st, 2008 at 3:01 pmMaybe we could just stop bickering amongst ourselves. I feel like I’m married again…
January 21st, 2008 at 3:05 pmMaybe we could just stop bickering amongst ourselves. I feel like I’m married again…
Comment by Zooey — January 21, 2008 @ 3:05 pm
LOL
January 21st, 2008 at 3:16 pmthe zoo-keeper’s back
and there’s gonna be trou-ble
hey la, hey la
the zookeeper’s back
…
dating myself there… always loved those girl-groups…
to the tune of “my boyfriend’s back”, for you younguns…
luv ya, zooey…
January 21st, 2008 at 3:18 pmMaybe we could just stop bickering amongst ourselves.
Comment by Zooey — January 21, 2008 @ 3:05 pm
Yes, I guess you are right.
While I feel plunger would reach a larger, more receptive audience if he was to paraphrase, I guess I am not here to criticize the length of his posts. My apolgies plunger. Post away.
January 21st, 2008 at 3:18 pmThe other day I was driving down the road with my kids. Fighting kids ensued.
justasking: He’s being mean to me!!
plunger: Listen to me Listen to me Listen to me
Mary: Fred keeps pulling out his little thing and making me LOOK!!
Me: Don’t Make Me Pull This Car Over!!
January 21st, 2008 at 3:26 pmSomeone, somewhere, has those “missing” documents. Unfortunately, that person(s) would probably have a fatal “stroke” if he/she (they) came forward while Bushco is still in power.
BTW, while I would prefer shorter excerpts, links, and a stricter adherence to the thread’s topic; I have nothing against “plunger”. One can learn a lot from his posts if one has the time, and inclination, to read them. I can’t help but respect honest passion.
January 21st, 2008 at 3:31 pmI respect “passion” ; but posting the entire contents of War and Peace like plunger does isn’t about that ……..
January 21st, 2008 at 3:45 pmPlunger, you keep on posting!
Your information has revealed something I’d like to respond to:
Re: The vice president also said: “If we are successful in Iraq, if we can stand up a good, representative government in Iraq that secures the region so that it never again becomes a threat to its neighbors or to the United States, so it’s not pursuing weapons of mass destruction, so that it’s not a safe haven for terrorists, we will have struck a major blow right at the heart of the base, if you will, the geographic base of the terrorists who have had us under assault now for many years, but most especially on 9/11.â€
Powell and Rice disagree:
In Cairo, on February 24 2001, Powell said: “He (Saddam Hussein) has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project conventional power against his neighbours.”
This is the very opposite of what Bush and Blair said in public.
Powell even boasted that it was the US policy of “containment” that had effectively disarmed the Iraqi dictator – again the very opposite of what Blair said time and again. On May 15 2001, Powell went further and said that Saddam Hussein had not been able to “build his military back up or to develop weapons of mass destruction” for “the last 10 years”. America, he said, had been successful in keeping him “in a box”.
Two months later, Condoleezza Rice also described a weak, divided and militarily defenceless Iraq. “Saddam does not control the northern part of the country,” she said. “We are able to keep his arms from him. His military forces have not been rebuilt.”
Source.
January 21st, 2008 at 3:48 pmI respect “passion†; but posting the entire contents of War and Peace like plunger does isn’t about that ……..
Comment by MCMetal — January 21, 2008 @ 3:45 pm
I’m not so sure. However, I might get more annoyed if I didn’t have a fast internet connection.
January 21st, 2008 at 3:51 pmI guess nobody is listening to the impeach Cheney/Bush so maybe we should start a petition to impeach Pelosi and Reid for cowardace and enabling this administration. Start with Nancy as she is a closet Republican and needs to go today!
January 21st, 2008 at 3:57 pmkaty has spoken……plunger is allowed to post war and peace if he wants too…..guess no one else is entitled to an opinion….been here recently.
January 21st, 2008 at 3:58 pmwell… that makes it easier…
i do have to defend myself, as to fred’s bit of a fit @125…
his very first comment, on the very first day fred posted…
and i remember it well… “kinda uppity for a newbie”, i thought…
Fairy duster wins…….
you have all fallen for what repugs do…again. This guy isn’t even k rove and you still play thier game….
Fairy duster has dominated the discussion.
Comment by Fred — January 2, 2008 @ 11:34 am
eh? … and it gets better…
good on ya for settling in, fred…
but, uh, practice what you preach?
…
while i’ve got your attention, something i’ve wondered over these days :
just how old of an “old man” are you?
only curious, because i do enjoy discovering commenters who
are OLDER THAN I AM… aaaaaarrrrgh!…
:-)
January 21st, 2008 at 4:24 pmkaty,
January 21st, 2008 at 4:31 pmUntil Methuselah posts, you will hold the ribbon!
I finally had time to do something today I’ve wanted to do for a long time.
I respect the research that plunger has put into his work.
He’s obviously very well read, and intelligent as hell about the research he’s done.
It’s argumentative as to whether his paste-up style is effective in reaching the audience he intends to educate.
I pasted every one of his posts into Word, and his word count was 42,270.
January 21st, 2008 at 4:31 pmThat’s a lot of material to put on a thread and expect all but the most patient to read, let alone scroll past.
But, as this is a progressive blog, I’ll give plunger (why do I keep typing plunder?) a pass. His information is now in book form, email me for a copy.
Frank M just delivered his best Cheney imitation during Cabinet meetings.
January 21st, 2008 at 4:34 pmkaty has spoken……plunger is allowed to post war and peace if he wants too…..guess no one else is entitled to an opinion….been here recently.
Comment by Fred — January 21, 2008 @ 3:58 pm
now now Fred. don’t start pouting. katy isn’t the judge and jury here.
You are entitled to your opinion too. and considering you actually keep your posts to a respectable level (and speak as if you are sane), people actually read and respond to your posts.
January 21st, 2008 at 4:36 pmComment by Frank M — January 21, 2008 @ 4:38 pm
That’s only because he is the one behind the curtain!
January 21st, 2008 at 4:42 pmWalttheman: Did he fall into a narcoleptic trance? That’s what Cheney does any time he has to sit still for more than ten minutes.
January 21st, 2008 at 4:52 pmI’m surprised we know they’re missing and that apparently a department of government might have actually done something after finding them, so they were deleted. Why didn’t they just invite them to view the e-mails in Guantanamo?
What a legacy. But, heck, Saint Ronald is all but deified for, what, cutting the top quintile’s taxes during growth and then ending with a slowdown and senility? Or is it just being the only Repulslican president they can revere since Eisenhower (who spoke out against war)?
January 21st, 2008 at 4:55 pmWalttheman: Did he fall into a narcoleptic trance? That’s what Cheney does any time he has to sit still for more than ten minutes.
Comment by Veritas — January 21, 2008 @ 4:52 pm
what would you expect from a man whose heart no longer beats
January 21st, 2008 at 4:55 pmGlad to see that everyone’s revved up today! All I can say regarding the Plunger bashing is that each time he posts sequential information coupled with allusion to valuable links, the number of people participating in repartee here increases four-fold. Many of my friends only come to TP when the see that he’s posting more info. So, for whatever it’s worth, despite the fact that some of us may be regulars and claim to know it all already (myself not included), his posts provide background, insight, and credible details to the uninitiated in their quest for truth. It’s such an improvement over some of the ridiculous back and forth I so frequently observe with the known trolls and others. To me, that becomes an exercise in mental masturbation. Just check out some of the troll blabber and bashing and see how much valuable, insightful information is garnered on those threads.
Particularly today when free speech and justice for all is the theme, let’s call a truce here and unite instead of fight. It’s good for the collective soul.
January 21st, 2008 at 5:01 pmWe’ve got enough “enemies within” in the highest offices in this government and surrounding us everywhere we look; we surely don’t need any more negativity in our lives.
January 21st, 2008 at 5:04 pmAnyone surprised the emails are missing?
January 21st, 2008 at 5:27 pmit was introduced in post 6 by evil spaniard and I don’t know about you guys but this is not a small thing……..did you read the article……all world markets down 5-7 percent….that’s the story of the day….the week….the month…..it could be the story of the year before it’s over if it doesn’t correct………
Comment by Fred — January 21, 2008 @ 2:32 pm
Fred,
The Market is what I do. And the topic of this thread was about Darth Cheney’s malfeasence. So personally, I am already on top of the market situation and came here more interested in how we are going to get the public outraged enough to actually make their rep.s in washington DO something about him and the rest of this administration to restore our Constitution and our civil liberties and hold them ACCOUNTABLE.
The current market situation is going to play out just like it always does, (it’ll go down and eventually it’ll go back up.) But the current financial crises can be attributted to the crimes that this administration and their corporate cronies have committed. Repugnicant greed knows no bounds.
So, please, stop raging against plunger’s post because although they are long, they are on topic. And some even find them interesting.
If he were a troll just out to anger like “southern madam” and “O I stuck my bigfoot in my mouth” and the others, I would say have at ‘em. But I think, and I could be way off base here, that plunger’s just trying to get the info out.
Peace.
January 21st, 2008 at 5:31 pm-E
But, as this is a progressive blog, I’ll give plunger (why do I keep typing plunder?) a pass. His information is now in book form, email me for a copy.
Comment by RUCerious — January 21, 2008 @ 4:31 pm
IT IS RATHER DAUNTING, ISN’T IT?
You should see my WORD Doc file. I’m sure Chertoff has the entire thing mirrored.
Someone just like you took what they perceived to be a “best of” collection and published it all on a site that he created on his own a couple years ago:
http://plungerspeaks.blogspot.com
Needless to say, the shadow government is not real please at the way I take existing and publicly available information and stitch it together to paint the picture of a massive conspiracy.
That’s why they keep throwing these trolls into the breach to shoot the messenger and attempt to encourage people not to read what I post.
The agents are among us, and reveal themselves the louder they squeal.
If it weren’t all true, sure someone would rise to the challenge and discredit what I write with voluminous facts and links.
They got nothin’.
Thanks for reading…Plunger
January 21st, 2008 at 6:00 pmRU:
I just checked. My file contains 1,117 documents created over the last five years. Believe it or not, despite the length of what I do post, most of these files contain FAR MORE than you see here.
Just ask Chertoff – the Israeli agent.
January 21st, 2008 at 6:03 pmPlungers posts maybe long, but they are also informative, I take the time to read alot of them.
And I guess nobody here would be surprised that Darth Dick’s emails are missing, on their lemming christofascist followers will keep in denial of the crimes of this administration.
Bush/Cheney
Hague Trials ‘09
Buck Fush
January 21st, 2008 at 6:19 pmkaty, I may be a newbe but I still have an opinion and you have no right to judge it based on how long I have been here….
January 21st, 2008 at 6:23 pmkaty
January 21st, 2008 at 6:24 pmAs far as fairy duster….sorry I don’t measure up to your expectations….I actually have been working on that but you wouldn’t know that because you come in at the end of a thread without knowing all that leads up to what is going on and pass judgment
For the future….you will treat me with at least the respect that you show to plunger and my opinion is mine and will be allowed if anyones is….
January 21st, 2008 at 6:27 pmIf you have a suggestion as to how I might deal better, you may offer it as just that…a suggestion…
katy
January 21st, 2008 at 6:32 pmI am 57 years old.
sorry for the mult posts….it would not let me post it at one time.
January 21st, 2008 at 6:36 pmI have this great dream where Cheney’s sitting at the morning briefing table, and the alien finally comes busting out of his chest, spraying acidic green blood all over the chymp, who freaks out and jumps out the window.
Just a dream, just a dream…
January 21st, 2008 at 6:48 pmI’m sure planning to write some sternly written letters cannot be too far off.
January 21st, 2008 at 7:09 pmI say let Plunger be free to post anything he wants. He does let us uninformed souls in on whats happening. I think he is a straight up guy.
January 21st, 2008 at 7:11 pmOh great, another useless investigation headed by the do nothing Democratic Congress.
January 21st, 2008 at 7:28 pmjust a question? with all that is known today about Bush and Cheney , why impeachment has not been on the table as of yet?
I’m curious because I really do not understand, I have signed petitions for impeachment of D. Cheney and yet nothing happenes?
January 21st, 2008 at 7:38 pmFred,
January 21st, 2008 at 7:38 pmI am 68, and all of my comments have disappeared into the dust bin of time on this thread.
Plunger reminds me a lot of Randi Rhodes… That is, interesting for a couple hours, and then it gets repetitive and the signal to noise ratio goes quickly to zero. Please, Plunger, get your OWN BLOG where you can post whatever you want, get folks to pay you for your research, and let the discussion here continue without you…
January 21st, 2008 at 8:08 pmUnless and until the Democratic leaders hold this administration accountable for the obvious crimes against humanity and against the Constitution, they are in jeopardy of losing this election, no matter who wins the primaries (or who the MSM picks to win the primaries). Until we get the obscene amounts of money out of our presidential politics, the networks will only cover the “front runners.” After all, the “front runners” will be paying tens of millions to TV stations to promote their candidacies. And voters who don’t pay attention will continue to vote for only the candidates they see on the TV. And what if they are told that a vote for Edwards in a Nevada caucus will get them fired from their jobs? It has happened.
January 21st, 2008 at 8:14 pmYou know. I would be willing to bet that most of us here could sit down with a list of known scandals, and the dates, and come pretty close to predicting when various documents went missing.
These (bleep)s in office continually remind me of the teenagers who used to work for me. They actually thought that I wouldn’t be suspicious when they would “call in sick” on Halloween, homecoming, or other social event.
I think what makes me the most angry is that we’ve been had by such incompetent criminals. If only more of us had been paying attention.
January 21st, 2008 at 9:25 pmThe thing about email is it never disappears. Since 2001, perhaps earlier, the NSA has intercepted, copied and stored all internet traffic, domestic and foreign, encrypted /secure and not.
Also, while CFR is the web for our controllers, the master spiders are the Trilateral Commission and an Anglo-Zionist group that is thus far unnamed but whose American agent has been rumoured to be Shultz and who may have seized control from the weakened Rockefeller and his TLC these past 7 years. Brzezinski is advising Obama on foreign policy so he is the safe vote to throw out the Shultz neo-cons hardline fascists and bring back the soft liberal fascists (not democracy, but it’s the best you can do).
January 22nd, 2008 at 1:08 amHow George Shultz Became the Most Pro-Israel Secretary Of State
http://www.wrmea.com/backissues/0498/9804078.html
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:41 amhttp://www.everyzing.com/viewMedia.jsp?index=1&start=0&mc=en-vid&il=en&col=en-vid-public-ep&q=shultz&res=160593311&num=10&filter=1&expand=true&match=query,channel&dedupe=1&y=0&x=0&e=17362146
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:45 amI think if you dig deep enough it’s easy to find some kind of plausibility into some of the one world government conspiracy theories as many are backed by decades of traceable facts.
The Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) is said to be one of many hands of the Illumati.
an excerpt for the curious …
“Since 1934 nearly every United States Secretary of State has been a CFR member; and ALL Secretaries of War or Defense, from Henry L. Stimson through Richard Cheney.
The CIA has been under CFR control almost continuously since its creation, starting with Allen Dulles, founding member of the CFR and brother of Secretary of State under President Eisenhower, John Foster Dulles. Allen Dulles had been at the Paris PeaceConference, joined the CFR in 1926, and later became its president.
John Foster Dulles had been one of Woodrow Wilson’s young proteges at the Paris Peace Conference. A founding member of the CFR…he was an in-law of the Rockefellers, Chairman of the Board of the Rockefeller Foundation, and Board Chairman of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.
edit here by me because the filter filtered a guy’s name
In 1940 FDR defeated internationalist Wendell Willkie, who wrote a book entitled One World, and later became a CFR member. Congressman Usher Burd_i_c_k (this is the name of a man not intended profanity) protested at the time on the floor of the House that Willkie was being financed by J.P. Morgan and the New York utility bankers. Polls showed few Republicans favored him, yet the media portrayed him as THE Republican candidate.
Since that time nearly ALL presidential candidates have been CFR members. President Truman, who was not a member, was advised by a group of “wise men,” all six of whom were CFR members, according to Gary Allen. In 1952 and 1956, CFR Adlai Stevenson challenged CFR Eisenhower. In 1960, CFR Kennedy (perhaps killed for attempting to introduce debt-free money, by executive order – cancelled immediately by LBJ) defeated CFR Nixon. In 1964 the GOP stunned the Establishment by nominating its candidate over Nelson Rockefeller. Rockefeller and the CFR wing proceeded to picture Barry Goldwater as a dangerous radical. In 1968 CFR Nixon ran against CFR Humphrey. The 1972 “contest” featured CFR Nixon vs. CFR McGovern.
CFR candidates for president include George McGovern, Walter Mondale, Edmund Muskie, John Anderson, and Lloyd Bentsen. In 1976 we had Jimmy Carter, who is a member of the Trilateral Commission, created by David Rockefeller and CFR member Zbigniew Brezinski with the goal of economic linkage between Japan, Europe, and the United States, and: “…managing the world economy…a smooth and peaceful evolution of the global system.” We have also had (though his name strangely disappears from the membership list in 1979) CFR Director (1977-79) George Bush, and last but not least, CFR member Bill Clinton.
They have all promoted the “New World Order,” controlled by the United Nations. The problem is that “…the present United Nations organization is actually the creation of the CFR and is housed on land in Manhattan donated to it by the family of current CFR chairman David Rockefeller,” as Pat Robertson describes it.
The original concept for the UN was the outcome of the Informal Agenda Group, formed in 1943 by Secretary of State Cordell Hull. All except Hull were CFR members, and Isaiah Bowman, a founding member of the CFR, originated the idea”
exerpt from a paper titled
The Council on Foreign Relations (CFR)
and the New World Order
By William Blase
go look this stuff up on your own if you don’t want to take Blase’ word for it … here’s his source material listing :
Bo Adelmann, 1986. “The Federal Reserve System”. The New American, October 17.
Gary Allen, 1976. The Rockefeller File. Seal Beach, CA: ‘76 Press.
Gary Allen with Larry Abraham, 1972. None Dare Call it Conspiracy. Rossmoor, CA: Concord Press.
Congressional Record, December 22, 1913, Vol. 51.
Phoebe and Kent Courtney, 1962. America’s Unelected Rulers, The Council on Foreign Relations. New Orleans: Conservative Society of America.
Curtis B. Dall, 1970. FDR My Exploited Father-In-Law. Washington D.C.: Action Associates.
A. Ralph Epperson, 1985. The Unseen Hand. Tucson, AZ: Publius Press.
F.D.R.: His Personal Letters, 1950. New York: Duell, Sloan and Pearce.
William P. Hoar, 1984. Architects of Conspiracy. Belmont MA: Western Islands.
Herbert Hoover, 1952. The Memoirs of Herbert Hoover, The Great Depression 1929-1941. New York: Macmillan.
Frederick C. Howe, 1906. Confessions of a Monopolist. Chicago: Public Publishing Co.
Robert C. Johansen, 1980. “Models of World Order,” in Dilemmas of War and Peace.
Peter Kershaw, 1994. Economic Solutions.
Devvy Kidd, 1995. Why A Bankrupt America? Colorado: Project Liberty.
Ferdinand Lundberg, 1938. America’s 60 Families. New York: Vanguard.
Louis T. McFadden, 1934.The Federal Reserve Corporation, remarks in Congress. Boston: Forum Publication Co.
James Perloff, 1988. The Shadows of Power. Appleton, WI: Western Islands.
Carroll Quigley, 1966. Tragedy and Hope. New York: Macmillan.
Pat Robertson, 1991. The New World Order. Dallas: Word Publishing.
Charles Seymour, ed., 1926. The Intimate Paper of Colonel House. Boston: Houghton Mifflin.
Colin Simpson, 1972. The Lusitania. Boston: Little, Brown.
Arthur D. Howde Smith, 1940. Mr House of Texas. New York: Funk and Wagnalls.
Antony C. Sutton, 1975. Wall Street and FDR. New Rochelle, New York: Arlington House.
George Sylvester Viereck, 1932. The Strangest Friendship in History. New York: Liveright.
http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=28299
January 22nd, 2008 at 5:08 amoh a little member listing … this is from 1993 maybe I can find a more recent listing … but thsi gives you a good indication of the span of influence an organization like this can have …
Partial List of CFR members, from the 1993 “Annual Report.”
Approximately 3,000 members total.
Elliott Abrams, ROGER ALTMAN, John Anderson, Roone Arledge, LES ASPIN, BRUCE BABBITT, Howard Baker, William Bennett, LLOYD BENTSEN, Shirley Black, Tom Bradley, TOM BROKAW, Harold Brown, RONALD BROWN, Z. Brezindski, WILLIAM BUCKLEY, Frank Carlucci, JIMMY CARTER, John Chancellor, Richard Cheney, Henry Cisneros, BILL CLINTON, William Colby, WARREN CHRISTOPHER, Mario Cuomo, James Dalton, Richard Darman, JOHN DEUTCH, Charles Dodd, Michael Dukakis, L. Eagleburger, Daniel Ellsberg, Geraldine Ferraro, Thomas Foley, GERALD FORD, Robert Gates, DAVID GERGEN, NEWT GINGRICH, RUTH GINSBERG, Katherine Graham, ALAN GREENSPAN, Alexander Haig, Richard Helms, Benjamin Hooks, C. Hunter-Gault, JESSE JACKSON, Bernard Kalb, N. Katzenbach, George Kennan, John Kerry, Jean Kirkpatrick, Henry Kissinger, ANTHONY LAKE, JIM LEHRER, I. R. Levine, John Lindsay, Richard McFarlane, George McGovern, Robert McNamera, Robert McNeill, George Mitchell, Walter Mondale, Daniel Moynihan, Edmund Muskie, Jack Nelson, Paul Nitze, SANDRA O’CONNOR, Claiborne Pell, Richard Perle, COLIN POWELL, DAN RATHER, ALICE RIVLIN, Charles Robb, David Rockefeller, John Rockefeller, William Rogers, Walt Rostow, W. Ruckelshaus, Warren Rudman, Dean Rusk, Carl Sagan, Harrison Salisbury, Jonas Salk, DIANE SAWYER, John Scali, James Schlesinger, Daniel Schorr, PAT SCHROEDER, Brent Scowcroft, William Scranton, DONNA SHALALA, William Shirer, S. Shriver, George Shultz, GARY SICK, L. Silberman, William Simon, Steven Solarz, G. Stephanopoulas, David Stockman, Robert Strauss, Peter Tarnoff, D. THORNBURGH, Stansfield Turner, LAURA D’ANDREA TYSON, Cyrus Vance, John Vessey, Paul Volcker, BARBARA WALTERS, Paul Warnke, Ben Wattenberg, William Webster, Caspar Weinberger, Timothy Wirth, Frank Wisner, JAMES WOOSLEY, Elmo Zumwalt
——————————————————————————–
Past and present Directors of the CFR include George Bush, Thomas Foley, Averell Harriman, David Rockefeller, Donna Shalala, Zbigniew Brzezinski, John McCloy, Douglas Dillon, Adlai Stevenson, Bill Moyers, Cyrus Vance, Henry Kissinger, George Shultz, Alan Greenspan, William Rogers, Lane Kirkland, and many other well-known names.
——————————————————————————–
Corporate Members include:
American Airlines, American Express, Archer Daniels Midland, ASARCO, AT&T, Atlantic Richfield, Avon Products, BMW of North America, Bank of America, Bankers Trust, Barclays Bank, Bristol-Myers Squibb, Capital Cities/ABC, Chase Manhattan Bank, Chevron, Citibank/Ciiticorp, Coca-Cola, Deere & Company, Dow Chemical, Dow Jones & Company, Dun & Bradstreet, E. I. du Pont, Estee Lauder, Exxon, Forbes Magazine, Ford Motor Company, General Electric, General Motors, Georgia-Pacific, H. J. Heinz, Hilton Hotels, IBM Corporation, ITT Corporation, John Wiley & Sons, Johnson & Johnson, J. P. Morgan & Co., Peat Marwick, Merill Lynch, Mitsubishi, Mobil Corporation, New York Times, Nippon Steel USA, Occidental Petroleum, Olin Corportation, Paramount Publishing, PepsiCo, Pfizer, Phillips Petroleum, Price Waterhouse, Proctor & Gamble, Prudential Insurance, RJR Nabisco, Rockefeller Group, Schlumberger Limited, S. G. Warburg & Co., Siemens Corporation, Smith Barney Shearson, Sony Corporation, Texaco, Times Mirror, Toyota Motor Corp., TRW, Xerox Corp.
now you can chalk it all up to ‘coincidence’ or you can start to do some investigative work on your own …
http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=28299
January 22nd, 2008 at 5:10 amsomething else to consider …
“Peter Kershaw, in Economic Solutions lists the ten major shareholders of the Federal Reserve Bank System as: Rothschild: London and Berlin; Lazard Bros: Paris; Israel Seiff: Italy; Kuhn-Loeb Company: Germany; Warburg: Hamburg and Amsterdam; Lehman Bros: New York; Goldman and Sachs: New York; Rockefeller: New York.”
now let’s see some of you sceptics help me find an up to date 2003 listing of CFR membership (people and corporations) and we need to find out the status of major shareholders in the Federal Reserve Bank … don’t be scared, if you don’t believe it’s a conspiracy we got nothing to fear right?
Last edited by MonkeyLungs : 11-26-2003 at 03:34 PM.
January 22nd, 2008 at 5:11 amObstruction charges can also be laid if a person alters or destroys physical evidence, even if they were under no compulsion at any time to produce such evidence.
January 22nd, 2008 at 6:49 am
I’m curious because I really do not understand, I have signed petitions for impeachment of D. Cheney and yet nothing happenes?
Comment by joiks — January 21, 2008 @ 7:38 pm
Because Pelosi and Reid have taken it off the table as if it were their sole domain. That’s really where this focus needs to go.
Replace them both! but please everyone call and write them both and urge them to do the right thing.
January 22nd, 2008 at 8:23 am