MAKING ILLEGAL WAR BY PROXY

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Yassar Aarofat was a nobel peace prize winner…..I know trolls are droolin but sadly for you guys a lot of intelligent people believed that he deserved it……no worry about any of the bushies receiving such an honor.

Comment by Juan C. — January 22, 2008 @ 2:48 pm

Because the psycho ZioNazis are the Chosen Ones just like the American Christo-Fascists. They are answerable to only dog…..er…..god, even though it is a slightly different deity in each case.

“He’s been there…and you probably don’t even know where you are.”

Firesign Theatre – Everything You Know Is Wrong

sounds much like warsaw….

Um-hmmm. And Israel will use whatever and however much force is necessary … including nuclear … to “protect” itself.

Cheers,

This is like a bad WWE tag-team match, the Shining Reasonable Judeo-Christians against the Arab (or close enough) Jihadi Devils.

What if Saudi Arabia attacked Israel, whom would the neocons choose!

–The mythical “right of return” you are alluding to is non-existent. Palestinian refugees have been kept in their camps by their Arab hosts as a political ploy to foster resentment and keep the possibility of “repatriating” Israel open, after their first attempt to push Israel into the sea was thwarted.

They’re more than welcome to build the Apartheid Wall on their own land. They should not be building it on Palestinian land and disrupting Palestinian livelihoods.

–The majority of the Wall (let’s be civic here, and not adhere to Carter’s canards, which has apologized for, I might add) is on Israeli land. If Palestinian’s want their villages back, tell them to stop blowing up Israeli children.

No, they should be engaging their neighbors diplomatically. If they start working towards a viable peace with the Palestinian people, and return the land they stole from their neighbors, their neighbors will cease to be enemies.

–Diplomacy has been tried and tested by Israeli foreign ambassador after foreign ambassador. And Israel continues to use diplomacy with Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia–all countries that professed Israel’s destruction at one point throughout the last 40 years. They are engaged in negotiations with Mahmoud Abbas currently.

Why not? They suddenly declared Fatah a non-terrorist entity and accepted their corrupt and incompetent tactics of statecraft.

–Fatah renounced their assertion that Israel must be eradicated. They are pushing for their own state that rests alongside Israel and do not want to destroy Israel completely as does Hamas.

No, they don’t need to resurrect Irgun and Lehi and the other pre-1948 terrorist groups. The IDF is much more efficient at slaughtering innocents, surely.

–This last one makes no sense.

However, for someone that has studied the issue critically, one becomes pretty puzzled at the shallowness of their scholarship, at their failure to acknowledge the power of other just-as-powerful lobbies like the AARP and the NRA, and their purposeful ignorance of the sale of arms to to Arab countries that avow Israel’s destruction. Before you finish reading the Walt and Mearsheimer book, I challenge you to read Leslie Gelb’s short explanation of the issue in the Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/23/books/review/Gelb-t.html?_r=3&ref=books&pagewanted=all&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

It rests on logic more tenable than that applied by Walt and Mearsheimer to their argument, and relies on a deeper understanding of the issues.

End the occupation of all territories seized in 1967, remove settlers from Palestinian lands seized in 1967, allow Palestinian refugees displaced in 1948 to return to their homelands, and work towards a viable two- or one-state solution that allows the Palestinian people to control their ports, border crossings, watersheds, and airspace. Ideally, they could also work towards an eventual one-state solution, but that’s a century off at this rate.

To remove the security fence/wall and let suicide attacks continue?

They’re more than welcome to build the Apartheid Wall on their own land. They should not be building it on Palestinian land and disrupting Palestinian livelihoods.

To stand by passively while their enemies potentially acquire bigger and greater weapons, capable of targeting their population centers?

No, they should be engaging their neighbors diplomatically. If they start working towards a viable peace with the Palestinian people, and return the land they stole from their neighbors, their neighbors will cease to be enemies.

To suddenly declare Hamas a non-terrorist entity, and accept their savage tactics of “statecraft”?

Why not? They suddenly declared Fatah a non-terrorist entity and accepted their corrupt and incompetent tactics of statecraft.

For the Jews to go back to their slaughter as they did in the 1940s?

Comment by ThinkBalanced — January 22, 2008 @ 4:38 pm

No, they don’t need to resurrect Irgun and Lehi and the other pre-1948 terrorist groups. The IDF is much more efficient at slaughtering innocents, surely.

Comment by jason baddo — January 22, 2008 @ 4:25 pm

The names Mearsheimer and Walt do mean something to me – I’m reading The Israel Lobby right now and it’s quite good. And I haven’t found a list of the names of the 40+ Palestinians killed and injured in Israel’s latest rocket attack on Gaza, but I do condemn the acts of aggression and collective punishment. Take a look at my blog and my posting history here and you’ll see where I stand on the issue of Israel/Palestine.

What I’m not doing is blaming these acts on all Jews, or using the coded language of anti-Semitism to oppose Israeli policy. Not all Jews are Zionists. Not all Zionists are Jews. Calling for a “Kristol nacht” and the “burning of synagogues” is just racism and bigotry.

You don’t fight racism and bigotry with more racism and bigotry.

That being said, I leave the group with this question:

What would it take for Israel to be “just” in your eyes? To remove the security fence/wall and let suicide attacks continue? To stand by passively while their enemies potentially acquire bigger and greater weapons, capable of targeting their population centers? To suddenly declare Hamas a non-terrorist entity, and accept their savage tactics of “statecraft”? For the Jews to go back to their slaughter as they did in the 1940s?

Good point. Haven’t seen Jason around for a while. Maybe this is his new identity. Sounds like him.

And plunger, I have to say that I appreciate the brevity of your recent posts. I would like to continue to read your posts, but not if they go more than one screen full.

Actually I think you have it backwards. Israel is not trying to push us to attack Iran for them, we are trying to push Israel to attack Iran for us!

If they want to attack Iran, then I say we stay out of it. It will be their fight, not ours and we should keep our nose where it belongs, and that is in this country trying to fix the mess the Bush Crime Family has made out of our government.

Comment by jason baddo — January 22, 2008 @ 4:06 pm

Jason:

What country are you blogging from? Clearly NOT the US, and I seriously doubt you are a US citizen.

Yank this.

Israel has proven they can defend themselves anyways. So even if this phony threat from Iran WAS true, Israel should act in their own interests and defend themselves if necessary. They shouldn’t try to threaten us by saying they will act if we do not. That’s an attempt to hijack our foreign policy and push us into acting for them. They should make their own decisions and face the consequences of their own actions.

Comment by Zimzone — January 22, 2008 @ 4:22 pm

Temporary Recess Appointment