Comments on: Iraq vets claim war crimes were ‘encouraged.’ http://thinkprogress.org/2008/01/22/killing-civilians-in-iraq-encouraged-by-commanders/ Thu, 26 Nov 2009 01:03:37 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: ernestblake http://thinkprogress.org/2008/01/22/killing-civilians-in-iraq-encouraged-by-commanders/comment-page-3/#comment-4240089 ernestblake Wed, 23 Jan 2008 20:04:55 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2008/01/22/killing-civilians-in-iraq-encouraged-by-commanders/#comment-4240089 Yes, Michael Blake "has a history" as most of us do. I'm his father. He's the only one in his High School Class to volunteer for the Army. His Army buddy Tim (mentioned above) was a founding member of Iraq Veterans Against the War. They were close. Mike thought Tim would want that fact remembered, that Tim was proud of it. He was honoring the wishes of the dead. Michael came back from a year in Iraq with an honorable discharge and seven citations, all positive. Let any detractors show the same (or better) credentials, otherwise their TALK is CHEAP. Yes, Michael Blake “has a history” as most of us do. I’m his father. He’s the only one in his High School Class to volunteer for the Army. His Army buddy Tim (mentioned above) was a founding member of Iraq Veterans Against the War. They were close. Mike thought Tim would want that fact remembered, that Tim was proud of it. He was honoring the wishes of the dead. Michael came back from a year in Iraq with an honorable discharge and seven citations, all positive. Let any detractors show the same (or better) credentials, otherwise their TALK is CHEAP.

]]> By: Lefty Patriot http://thinkprogress.org/2008/01/22/killing-civilians-in-iraq-encouraged-by-commanders/comment-page-3/#comment-4239219 Lefty Patriot Wed, 23 Jan 2008 00:58:04 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2008/01/22/killing-civilians-in-iraq-encouraged-by-commanders/#comment-4239219 I’m still waiting for one of you warmongers to explain to me how the War in Viet Nam and the occupation of Iraq can share so many of the above characteristics, but at the same time be “completely different.” Comment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper — January 22, 2008 @ 7:54 pm I'm still waiting for any of them to deliver a coherent sentence that doesn't include cheering the deaths of American soldiers. I’m still waiting for one of you warmongers to explain to me how the War in Viet Nam and the occupation of Iraq can share so many of the above characteristics, but at the same time be “completely different.”

Comment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper — January 22, 2008 @ 7:54 pm

I’m still waiting for any of them to deliver a coherent sentence that doesn’t include cheering the deaths of American soldiers.

]]> By: Ret. Col. Jack Ripper http://thinkprogress.org/2008/01/22/killing-civilians-in-iraq-encouraged-by-commanders/comment-page-3/#comment-4239215 Ret. Col. Jack Ripper Wed, 23 Jan 2008 00:54:32 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2008/01/22/killing-civilians-in-iraq-encouraged-by-commanders/#comment-4239215 I'm still waiting for one of you warmongers to explain to me how the War in Viet Nam and the occupation of Iraq can share so many of the above characteristics, but at the same time be "completely different." I’m still waiting for one of you warmongers to explain to me how the War in Viet Nam and the occupation of Iraq can share so many of the above characteristics, but at the same time be “completely different.”

]]> By: Ret. Col. Jack Ripper http://thinkprogress.org/2008/01/22/killing-civilians-in-iraq-encouraged-by-commanders/comment-page-3/#comment-4239176 Ret. Col. Jack Ripper Wed, 23 Jan 2008 00:14:32 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2008/01/22/killing-civilians-in-iraq-encouraged-by-commanders/#comment-4239176 Let's see, if I remember correctly, our guys had a number of challenges in Southeast Asia: undefined mission? check; couldn't define exactly what would be "victory?" check; couldn't tell the friendlies from the hostiles? check; couldn't even begin to understand the language? check; couldn't define the strategic significance clearly with respect to the safety of the homeland? check; questionable reasons for beginning the conflict? check; the pervasive feeling that their commanders and political leaders were lying to them about how long they'd be there and how they were doing? check; political reasons for conflict based on questionable presumptions? check.... Need I continue? Anyone who doesn't think this conflict mirrors our disasterous experience in Viet Nam simply doesn't understand history. Let’s see, if I remember correctly, our guys had a number of challenges in Southeast Asia: undefined mission? check; couldn’t define exactly what would be “victory?” check; couldn’t tell the friendlies from the hostiles? check; couldn’t even begin to understand the language? check; couldn’t define the strategic significance clearly with respect to the safety of the homeland? check; questionable reasons for beginning the conflict? check; the pervasive feeling that their commanders and political leaders were lying to them about how long they’d be there and how they were doing? check; political reasons for conflict based on questionable presumptions? check….

Need I continue? Anyone who doesn’t think this conflict mirrors our disasterous experience in Viet Nam simply doesn’t understand history.

]]> By: Juan C. http://thinkprogress.org/2008/01/22/killing-civilians-in-iraq-encouraged-by-commanders/comment-page-3/#comment-4239148 Juan C. Tue, 22 Jan 2008 23:46:38 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2008/01/22/killing-civilians-in-iraq-encouraged-by-commanders/#comment-4239148 Well, you know after Abu Ghraib I was a little skeptic of some kind of policy set in order to punish and torture the Iraqi population. After Napalm rains over civilians in Vietnam, I was a little skeptic about the real intentions of the sanctity of the Western World. After chlorine gas and other chemical weapons over German soldiers in WWI, I was a little skeptic about the so called free world. After Fallujah, I was a little skeptic of the US as an agent of peace... After DU, I was a little skeptic about US war rules when they come to its own soldiers. After this revelation, the Blackwater gangrape, the Blackwater immunity...I think I'm still gonna trust the USA. <strong>/is it necessary to put sarc?</strong> Well, you know after Abu Ghraib I was a little skeptic of some kind of policy set in order to punish and torture the Iraqi population.

After Napalm rains over civilians in Vietnam, I was a little skeptic about the real intentions of the sanctity of the Western World.

After chlorine gas and other chemical weapons over German soldiers in WWI, I was a little skeptic about the so called free world.

After Fallujah, I was a little skeptic of the US as an agent of peace…

After DU, I was a little skeptic about US war rules when they come to its own soldiers.

After this revelation, the Blackwater gangrape, the Blackwater immunity…I think I’m still gonna trust the USA.

/is it necessary to put sarc?

]]> By: Fred http://thinkprogress.org/2008/01/22/killing-civilians-in-iraq-encouraged-by-commanders/comment-page-3/#comment-4239130 Fred Tue, 22 Jan 2008 23:28:50 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2008/01/22/killing-civilians-in-iraq-encouraged-by-commanders/#comment-4239130 Man, I missed this. The trolls have been getting their butts kicked in every thread lately. Nothing is going thier way....there's a surprise. couple of them were real gems: jk said: the elections will NOT be won based on Iraq. Now that even most of the lib media has toa dmit that the surge is working there is no way Iraq will be a factor in you winning but in fact MAY JUST BE a factor in you LOSING this year. hmp....does he think the economy was not effected by this escapade? Does he think the economy will be better by then....? Folks probably won't vote based on the economy will they. Then there was this by SM.....his evaluation of the total death count in Iraq: I tend to be skeptical when the likes of George Soros’ pay for a study to see how many civilians have been killed in Iraq. His study states close to a million. DOD went door to door for their study and estimated that the number was closer to 100,000. You see, you can’t count Abdul killing his eight children with a hammer a civilian death caused by the coalition. There were over 100 million deaths as a result of WWII. Comment by Southern Man DOD.....DOD....he uses the DOD as a reliable reference.....gawd...the trolls must be black and blue. All this on a thread where they are basically calling our veterans traitors. How unAmerican. Why do you guys hate America. there was oh so much more and if you didn't read through the thread I reccomend it because it was rich. Oh and before the trolls try to say libs are wishing for a recession bla, bla, bla.....truth is it was predicted by most of us when bush was appointed....just like it happens every gawd danged time that a repub gets elected....that can't be coincidence....hoover, ike, nixon, raygun, bush1 and surprise...bush II. since the trolls are allowed to run free here they should at least be entertaining and boy has the last couple of days been fun....thanks trolls. Man, I missed this. The trolls have been getting their butts kicked in every thread lately. Nothing is going thier way….there’s a surprise.

couple of them were real gems:

jk said:
the elections will NOT be won based on Iraq. Now that even most of the lib media has toa dmit that the surge is working there is no way Iraq will be a factor in you winning but in fact MAY JUST BE a factor in you LOSING this year.

hmp….does he think the economy was not effected by this escapade? Does he think the economy will be better by then….? Folks probably won’t vote based on the economy will they.

Then there was this by SM…..his evaluation of the total death count in Iraq:

I tend to be skeptical when the likes of George Soros’ pay for a study to see how many civilians have been killed in Iraq. His study states close to a million. DOD went door to door for their study and estimated that the number was closer to 100,000. You see, you can’t count Abdul killing his eight children with a hammer a civilian death caused by the coalition. There were over 100 million deaths as a result of WWII.

Comment by Southern Man

DOD…..DOD….he uses the DOD as a reliable reference…..gawd…the trolls must be black and blue.

All this on a thread where they are basically calling our veterans traitors. How unAmerican. Why do you guys hate America.

there was oh so much more and if you didn’t read through the thread I reccomend it because it was rich.

Oh and before the trolls try to say libs are wishing for a recession bla, bla, bla…..truth is it was predicted by most of us when bush was appointed….just like it happens every gawd danged time that a repub gets elected….that can’t be coincidence….hoover, ike, nixon, raygun, bush1 and surprise…bush II.

since the trolls are allowed to run free here they should at least be entertaining and boy has the last couple of days been fun….thanks trolls.

]]> By: joe cantwell http://thinkprogress.org/2008/01/22/killing-civilians-in-iraq-encouraged-by-commanders/comment-page-3/#comment-4239098 joe cantwell Tue, 22 Jan 2008 23:08:43 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2008/01/22/killing-civilians-in-iraq-encouraged-by-commanders/#comment-4239098 <strong>man, gg dumped out fast, didn't she?</strong> man, gg dumped out fast, didn’t she?

]]> By: Lefty Patriot http://thinkprogress.org/2008/01/22/killing-civilians-in-iraq-encouraged-by-commanders/comment-page-3/#comment-4239086 Lefty Patriot Tue, 22 Jan 2008 23:00:51 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2008/01/22/killing-civilians-in-iraq-encouraged-by-commanders/#comment-4239086 It is Viet Nam all over again, only with more incompetent leaders and more murderous troops, because of the low levels of idiots stupid enough to enlist to fight for oil profits. they have scraped the bottom of the barrel, as the republicans did in finding Bush and cheney, and they are now enlisting from beneath the barrel, as the republicans are in running Romney and Giuliani and McCain and Huckabee, all perverted, sick, troop-hating psychopaths. There is no doubt that these stories are true, and that there are many more stories hidden from view, like Abu Ghraib was buried and Gitmo is secret. this administration is no better than the soviets and their gulags. It is Viet Nam all over again, only with more incompetent leaders and more murderous troops, because of the low levels of idiots stupid enough to enlist to fight for oil profits. they have scraped the bottom of the barrel, as the republicans did in finding Bush and cheney, and they are now enlisting from beneath the barrel, as the republicans are in running Romney and Giuliani and McCain and Huckabee, all perverted, sick, troop-hating psychopaths. There is no doubt that these stories are true, and that there are many more stories hidden from view, like Abu Ghraib was buried and Gitmo is secret. this administration is no better than the soviets and their gulags.

]]> By: Leftside Annie http://thinkprogress.org/2008/01/22/killing-civilians-in-iraq-encouraged-by-commanders/comment-page-3/#comment-4239077 Leftside Annie Tue, 22 Jan 2008 22:49:04 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2008/01/22/killing-civilians-in-iraq-encouraged-by-commanders/#comment-4239077 And, Southern Man, that's exactly why you choose to deny the existence of evil in the current situation - because it frightens you too much. I believe we see clearer than you, because we are not as afraid as you are. And, Southern Man, that’s exactly why you choose to deny the existence of evil in the current situation – because it frightens you too much.

I believe we see clearer than you, because we are not as afraid as you are.

]]> By: Shayne http://thinkprogress.org/2008/01/22/killing-civilians-in-iraq-encouraged-by-commanders/comment-page-3/#comment-4239062 Shayne Tue, 22 Jan 2008 22:37:39 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2008/01/22/killing-civilians-in-iraq-encouraged-by-commanders/#comment-4239062 I am questioning the story. You question every story that states anything positive about the country, so I question this story, not the soldiers. Comment by Southern Man — January 22, 2008 @ 5:18 pm Even the craziest mass murderer tries not to get caught. You think orders like this would be given while there was a video camera running in the room? But if there's not video it didn't happen. You watch too much television. I am questioning the story. You question every story that states anything positive about the country, so I question this story, not the soldiers.

Comment by Southern Man — January 22, 2008 @ 5:18 pm

Even the craziest mass murderer tries not to get caught. You think orders like this would be given while there was a video camera running in the room? But if there’s not video it didn’t happen. You watch too much television.

]]> By: lefty http://thinkprogress.org/2008/01/22/killing-civilians-in-iraq-encouraged-by-commanders/comment-page-3/#comment-4239052 lefty Tue, 22 Jan 2008 22:26:17 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2008/01/22/killing-civilians-in-iraq-encouraged-by-commanders/#comment-4239052 Here's an op-ed from the Clinton years in which the author refers to "The enduring goodness of the American military character..." plus my response. It's pretty much the same argument - we are Good and they are Bad. http://www.leftopia.blogspot.com/ Here’s an op-ed from the Clinton years in which the author refers to “The enduring goodness of the American military character…” plus my response.

It’s pretty much the same argument – we are Good and they are Bad.

http://www.leftopia.blogspot.com/

]]> By: lefty http://thinkprogress.org/2008/01/22/killing-civilians-in-iraq-encouraged-by-commanders/comment-page-3/#comment-4239042 lefty Tue, 22 Jan 2008 22:17:35 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2008/01/22/killing-civilians-in-iraq-encouraged-by-commanders/#comment-4239042 "The Troops" are a cross section of the very same gene pool of this society. Yes most of society are decent enough people, but there is also a sprinkling of pedophiles, school shooters, sadists, torturers and murderers. So the idea that there are some troops out there who commit acts which are crimes is not unfeasible. The problem is that morons like the trolls on this thread can't understand anything in the entire universe that does not fit into the black and white unreality that they have invested so much in. They then try to rhetorically force everything into the 2 boxes of good and evil. When things like this come out it does not mean that ALL troops are doing this and it also does not mean that WE think all troops are doing this. But it also does not fit into your demented fantasy that ALL Americans are the embodiment of saintly goodness. It's pretty sad that I have to actually explain this to you but apparently you're all too busy volunteering as fluffers at FOX News to realize these things. “The Troops” are a cross section of the very same gene pool of this society. Yes most of society are decent enough people, but there is also a sprinkling of pedophiles, school shooters, sadists, torturers and murderers.

So the idea that there are some troops out there who commit acts which are crimes is not unfeasible. The problem is that morons like the trolls on this thread can’t understand anything in the entire universe that does not fit into the black and white unreality that they have invested so much in. They then try to rhetorically force everything into the 2 boxes of good and evil.

When things like this come out it does not mean that ALL troops are doing this and it also does not mean that WE think all troops are doing this. But it also does not fit into your demented fantasy that ALL Americans are the embodiment of saintly goodness.

It’s pretty sad that I have to actually explain this to you but apparently you’re all too busy volunteering as fluffers at FOX News to realize these things.

]]> By: Bobwurst http://thinkprogress.org/2008/01/22/killing-civilians-in-iraq-encouraged-by-commanders/comment-page-3/#comment-4239041 Bobwurst Tue, 22 Jan 2008 22:17:29 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2008/01/22/killing-civilians-in-iraq-encouraged-by-commanders/#comment-4239041 OIL and the future of the U.S. We’re fighting for oil and the hope of democracy in the Middle East. Comment by Southern Man We're fighting for dick cheney's bank account. And we're destroying our future in the process. Bush is paying for this war with a credit card. When the bill comes due, and it's happening even as we speak, our country will suffer. OIL and the future of the U.S. We’re fighting for oil and the hope of democracy in the Middle East.

Comment by Southern Man

We’re fighting for dick cheney’s bank account. And we’re destroying our future in the process. Bush is paying for this war with a credit card. When the bill comes due, and it’s happening even as we speak, our country will suffer.

]]> By: Nature Rules http://thinkprogress.org/2008/01/22/killing-civilians-in-iraq-encouraged-by-commanders/comment-page-3/#comment-4239039 Nature Rules Tue, 22 Jan 2008 22:16:37 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2008/01/22/killing-civilians-in-iraq-encouraged-by-commanders/#comment-4239039 <em> OIL and the future of the U.S. We’re fighting for oil and the hope of democracy in the Middle East. Comment by Southern Man — January 22, 2008 @ 5:12 pm</em> Yes it's the OIL. Stupid Man is making progress!!! Oh wait, "and the hope of democracy in the Middle East." LOL That's only so it will be easier to steal their OIL. That's right - STEAL. Because IT"S NOT YOUR OIL. Man oh man, one step forward and two steps back! Stupid, Stupid, Stupid - because it bears repeating. OIL and the future of the U.S. We’re fighting for oil and the hope of democracy in the Middle East.

Comment by Southern Man — January 22, 2008 @ 5:12 pm

Yes it’s the OIL. Stupid Man is making progress!!! Oh wait, “and the hope of democracy in the Middle East.” LOL That’s only so it will be easier to steal their OIL. That’s right – STEAL. Because IT”S NOT YOUR OIL. Man oh man, one step forward and two steps back!

Stupid, Stupid, Stupid – because it bears repeating.

]]> By: Shayne http://thinkprogress.org/2008/01/22/killing-civilians-in-iraq-encouraged-by-commanders/comment-page-3/#comment-4239031 Shayne Tue, 22 Jan 2008 22:10:14 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2008/01/22/killing-civilians-in-iraq-encouraged-by-commanders/#comment-4239031 The topic is Iraq. So far, my wife, who has breast cancer, uses a vacum to get off, as well as the carpet cleaner. I find it very humorus and sad that this is all you got. Comment by Southern Man — January 22, 2008 @ 4:41 pm We're showing you and your wife the same respect you're showing the troops that have returned home. Unless they agree with your beliefs they're lying or traitors. Why do you people only support the troops while they're fighting for you but as soon as they get home you rejoice in their homelessness and abuse them for speaking up. The topic is Iraq. So far, my wife, who has breast cancer, uses a vacum to get off, as well as the carpet cleaner. I find it very humorus and sad that this is all you got.

Comment by Southern Man — January 22, 2008 @ 4:41 pm

We’re showing you and your wife the same respect you’re showing the troops that have returned home. Unless they agree with your beliefs they’re lying or traitors. Why do you people only support the troops while they’re fighting for you but as soon as they get home you rejoice in their homelessness and abuse them for speaking up.

]]> By: Bobwurst http://thinkprogress.org/2008/01/22/killing-civilians-in-iraq-encouraged-by-commanders/comment-page-3/#comment-4239029 Bobwurst Tue, 22 Jan 2008 22:10:02 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2008/01/22/killing-civilians-in-iraq-encouraged-by-commanders/#comment-4239029 That same thing was said before the ‘00 and ‘04 election. What are you going to do if you lose The Whithouse? Just wondering? Comment by Southern Man Diebold voting machine usage is way down this time. John Mcain is aging three times as fast as normal (ask chuck norris) Rudy 9ui11ianis comb over has fallen out due to stress, Huckabee can't get elected dog-catcher now, Grampa Fred fell asleep again, and Mitt is running as a CEO: how has that worked out? Face it cracker, you're over. That same thing was said before the ‘00 and ‘04 election. What are you going to do if you lose The Whithouse? Just wondering?

Comment by Southern Man

Diebold voting machine usage is way down this time. John Mcain is aging three times as fast as normal (ask chuck norris) Rudy 9ui11ianis comb over has fallen out due to stress, Huckabee can’t get elected dog-catcher now, Grampa Fred fell asleep again, and Mitt is running as a CEO: how has that worked out? Face it cracker, you’re over.

]]> By: barfly http://thinkprogress.org/2008/01/22/killing-civilians-in-iraq-encouraged-by-commanders/comment-page-3/#comment-4239022 barfly Tue, 22 Jan 2008 22:09:00 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2008/01/22/killing-civilians-in-iraq-encouraged-by-commanders/#comment-4239022 "Col., this is not the Vietnam War. The Iraq War and the Vietnam War are different in every way imaginable." Comment by Southern Man They even sent the troops who guard the unknown soldiers' grave to fight in Iraq. When was the last time that happened? Vietnam. “Col., this is not the Vietnam War. The Iraq War and the Vietnam War are different in every way imaginable.”

Comment by Southern Man

They even sent the troops who guard the unknown soldiers’ grave to fight in Iraq.

When was the last time that happened?

Vietnam.

]]> By: erock http://thinkprogress.org/2008/01/22/killing-civilians-in-iraq-encouraged-by-commanders/comment-page-3/#comment-4239016 erock Tue, 22 Jan 2008 22:06:03 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2008/01/22/killing-civilians-in-iraq-encouraged-by-commanders/#comment-4239016 The children of the elites are fighting in this war? How exactly is this war different from vietnam? Comment by Bobwurst — January 22, 2008 @ 5:05 pm Sand. The children of the elites are fighting in this war? How exactly is this war different from vietnam?

Comment by Bobwurst — January 22, 2008 @ 5:05 pm

Sand.

]]> By: Bobwurst http://thinkprogress.org/2008/01/22/killing-civilians-in-iraq-encouraged-by-commanders/comment-page-2/#comment-4239010 Bobwurst Tue, 22 Jan 2008 22:05:02 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2008/01/22/killing-civilians-in-iraq-encouraged-by-commanders/#comment-4239010 The Iraq War and the Vietnam War are different in every way imaginable. Sadlittle Man Sooo, we're not supporting a puppet govenment? Our soldiers are not fighting an enemy that looks like the civilian population at large? the war is not being waged on phoney claims of spreading democracy or stopping the movement of an evil belief system? The war is not going on despite a majority of our country being against it? The children of the elites are fighting in this war? How exactly is this war different from vietnam? The Iraq War and the Vietnam War are different in every way imaginable.
Sadlittle Man

Sooo, we’re not supporting a puppet govenment? Our soldiers are not fighting an enemy that looks like the civilian population at large? the war is not being waged on phoney claims of spreading democracy or stopping the movement of an evil belief system? The war is not going on despite a majority of our country being against it? The children of the elites are fighting in this war? How exactly is this war different from vietnam?

]]> By: Shayne http://thinkprogress.org/2008/01/22/killing-civilians-in-iraq-encouraged-by-commanders/comment-page-2/#comment-4239005 Shayne Tue, 22 Jan 2008 22:03:08 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2008/01/22/killing-civilians-in-iraq-encouraged-by-commanders/#comment-4239005 We have HARD WOOD floors. Comment by Southern Man — January 22, 2008 @ 4:17 pm At least there's some hard wood in the house. We have HARD WOOD floors.

Comment by Southern Man — January 22, 2008 @ 4:17 pm

At least there’s some hard wood in the house.

]]>