Petraeus: I Need Another Six Months To Determine Whether ‘We’ve Reached A Turning Point’
Petraeus: I Need Another Six Months To Determine Whether ‘We’ve Reached A Turning Point’
In the past few months, conservatives such as Sens. John McCain (R-AZ) and Joe Lieberman (I-CT) have been quick to declare victory in Iraq. In November, McCain said that “we’ve succeeded militarily.” A day later, Lieberman declared that “we are winning” because “we have made progress” in “one of the most remarkable turnarounds in modern military history.”
Gen. David Petraeus, however, appeared on NBC this morning and rebutted the declarations of mission accomplished and said that he’ll need at least another Friedman Unit before he can make a judgment:
We think we won’t know that we’ve reached a turning point until we’re six months past it. We have repeatedly said that there is no lights at the end of the tunnel that we’re seeing. We’re certainly not dancing in the end zone or anything like that.
Watch it:
These six months appear to be never-ending, and are used by the right wing to constantly beg more time for the war. As The New York Times reported in September, Petraeus recommended to Congress that “decisions on the contentious issue of reducing the main body of the American troops in Iraq be put off for six months.”
With timelines like these, U.S. troops might actually be stuck in Iraq for a million years.
Transcript:
ENGEL: But the top U.S. military commanders remain cautious. They say Iraq has not yet reached a turning point and that, without continued American support, the security gains could be lost.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETRAEUS: We think we won’t know that we’ve reached a turning point until we’re six months past it. We have repeatedly said that there is no lights at the end of the tunnel that we’re seeing. We’re certainly not dancing in the end zone or anything like that.
ENGEL: Do you think the insurgents, the militias, are just waiting out the surge?
PETRAEUS: There may be some who are, but certainly the Al Qaida and related insurgents — most of those are not. They don’t have that luxury. The people have turned against them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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125 Responses to “Petraeus: I Need Another Six Months To Determine Whether ‘We’ve Reached A Turning Point’”
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5 years later , and he still needs another 6 friggin months …….
Talk about fobbing things onto others .
January 22nd, 2008 at 3:51 pmThis guy is already thinking about his next promotion.
January 22nd, 2008 at 3:52 pmAs for the Friedman Units - FU.
The GOP’s Westmoreland. Shameless kiss ass.
January 22nd, 2008 at 3:53 pmAlways another Friedman.
My guess: 10 more Friedmans before the embassy is evacuated by helicopter.
January 22nd, 2008 at 3:53 pmThank you for your service and leadership, General.
Comment by good_golly — January 22, 2008 @ 3:52 pm
January 22nd, 2008 at 3:53 pmThank you for your patronizing and stupid post , GI Joke……..
Hmmm, instead of FU’s
we now have PU’s
how appropriate
January 22nd, 2008 at 3:54 pmPetraeus: I Need Another Six Months To Determine Whether ‘We’ve Reached A Turning Point’
=======================================
The joker in charge of Chimpy’s surge needs more time ; yet the GOP/Chimpy backing twits and GOP politicians are claiming how stupendously successful it is……Well , which is it ?
January 22nd, 2008 at 3:56 pmMore effing FUs? FU General, stick those stars where the sun don’t shine.
January 22nd, 2008 at 3:57 pmMaybe Petraeus should make a point of publicly correcting McCain and Lieberman (and Rudy, et al) whenever they blab about the success of the Surge.
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:00 pmAnother six months of occupying a country whose citizens find it so appalling that they have no problem with the occupier being killed, maimed, mangled or mutilated.
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:00 pmWait — I thought the Surge Is Workingâ„¢?
But we still need another Friedman Unit in order to determine if it is working?
Y’know, it’s almost as if these guys want eternal war…
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:01 pmIt does not matter whether the war is actually happening, and, since no decisive victory is possible, it does not matter whether the war is going well or badly. All that is needed is that a state of war should exist.”
-Orwell, 1984
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:02 pm6 more months until its time for another 6 more months.
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:03 pmY’know, it’s almost as if these guys want eternal war…
Comment by ralph the wonder llama — January 22, 2008 @ 4:01 pm
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Peace ain’t profitable.
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:03 pm1. On Saturday, five Americans were killed in Iraq. This sent the number of Americans killed in the first three weeks of January past the total number killed in all of December.
2. On Monday,
U.S. military aircraft hit more than 30 targets with 35 bombs weighing a total of 19,000 pounds in air strikes in Arab Jabour, the U.S. military said.
Yes, that’s right: A major aerial bombardment. . .five years into the war for the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people. We’re back to bombing them. And in case you were wondering, no, an engagement like this is neither normal, nor preferred during an insurgency.
3. All weekend, fighting between government forces and an apocalyptical death cult raged throughout Basra and Nasiryah, leaving 276 people dead. According to The Independent:
The movement, led by Ahmad al-Hassani, also known as Ahmad al-Yamani, believes in the imminent return of the Messiah but exactly why its members should have taken to the streets in several cities remains unclear. In Basra they reportedly first killed several traffic policemen and commandeered six empty vehicles and two police cars. They later captured an oil facilities building and a hospital. At one point there was fighting in 75 per cent of Basra, a city of two million people, according to the police chief Abdul Jalil Khalaf.
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:04 pmLest we forget - 2007 was the deadliest year so far for our troops in Iraq. So far, 2008 is looking worse.
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:05 pmC’mon, Petraeus, please use the proper language. It’s “one Friedman Unit”….
Cheers,
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:05 pmY’know, it’s almost as if these guys want eternal war…
Comment by ralph the wonder llama — January 22, 2008 @ 4:01 pm
Ding! Ding! Ding!
You win! But, since you added “almost” you can only choose a prize from the bottom shelf.
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:05 pmThank you for your service and leadership, General.
Comment by good_golly — January 22, 2008 @ 3:52 pm
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If that were the case, he would be ending this boondoggle in Iraq and not asking for another six months for more troops and Iraqis to be killed.
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:06 pmSix months till turning from what direction to what direction?
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:07 pmSounds like stay the vague course to me.
Just how many Friedmans is that by now?
And they wonder why they no longer have any credibility with the public anymore….
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:10 pmComment by Frank M — January 22, 2008 @ 4:06 pm
###
We have been hearing “6 more months” for five years now. Soldiers in Iraq are dying in a war that began when they were 13. And Sunnis are not going to come to the US to kill Shiites, so we will never be fighting insurgents here in the US. I spent over a year with the US Army in Iraq (2003-2004). When were you there?
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:10 pmPetraeus: I Need Another Six Months To Determine Whether ‘We’ve Reached A Turning Point’
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:11 pmTranslation - give us more time to make some more bullshit up
You win! But, since you added “almost†you can only choose a prize from the bottom shelf.
Comment by pete — January 22, 2008 @ 4:05 pm
I’d like the General Petreaus Action Figure please. Oh, you said bottom shelf. In that case I’ll take the “William the Bloody” Kristol coffee mug.
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:11 pm2. On Monday,
U.S. military aircraft hit more than 30 targets with 35 bombs weighing a total of 19,000 pounds in air strikes in Arab Jabour, the U.S. military said.
Yes, that’s right: A major aerial bombardment. . .five years into the war for the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people. We’re back to bombing them. And in case you were wondering, no, an engagement like this is neither normal, nor preferred during an insurgency.
Comment by Chris L — January 22, 2008 @ 4:04 pm
Exactly. Ever since the Germans invented Blitzkrieg, tactical air strikes have been used as the initial blow. The aerial bombardment of territory which is “under control” is unprecedented in modern warfare.
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:12 pm21 Ignore
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:12 pmComment by Frank M — January 22, 2008 @ 4:06 pm
###
We have been hearing “6 more months†for five years now. Soldiers in Iraq are dying in a war that began when they were 13. And Sunnis are not going to come to the US to kill Shiites, so we will never be fighting insurgents here in the US. I spent over a year with the US Army in Iraq (2003-2004). When were you there?
Comment by Chris L — January 22, 2008 @ 4:10 pm
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:13 pmHe’s there in “spirit” ; like every GOP/Chimpy leg humping coward……..
Are you people really so out of touch with the post-9/11 reality that you are not willing to give the war on terror in Iraq another 6 months?
Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. And the war and subsequent occupation is/was a waste of lives for oil.
What’s the alternative? Admit defeat, bring the troops here, tell them that it was all for nothing and that soon they’ll have to fight the insurgents again - only this time it’s here in the USA?
They die for an oil [pipe] dream.
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:13 pmAre you people really so out of touch with the post-9/11 reality that you are not willing to give the war on terror in Iraq another 6 months? What’s the alternative? Admit defeat, bring the troops here, tell them that it was all for nothing and that soon they’ll have to fight the insurgents again - only this time it’s here in the USA?
Comment by Frank M — January 22, 2008 @ 4:06 pm
—–
Vegas loves guys like you. The loser that keeps pumping quarters into the slot machine because he won’t cut-and-run before the huge payoff.
Back in 2002 Rummey said that he didn’t even think this would last 6 months, That was over 10 Friedman’s ago.
After a point you have to assess your intentions, costs, and goals.
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:13 pmThen military withdrawal becomes a no-brainer.
What’s the alternative? Admit defeat, bring the troops here, tell them that it was all for nothing and that soon they’ll have to fight the insurgents again - only this time it’s here in the USA?
Comment by Frank M — January 22, 2008 @ 4:06 pm
No need to admit defeat. Don’t you remember:
“Mission Accomplished”
See. We already won the war. Your president said so. And he doesn’t lie.
I mean frank, your not saying we failed in Iraq, are you? What are you some sort of anit-American traitor who is suggesting we haven’t accomplished our mission?
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:13 pmLest we forget - 2007 was the deadliest year so far for our troops in Iraq. So far, 2008 is looking worse.
Comment by Chris L — January 22, 2008 @ 4:05 pm
2008 is 22 days old, so I think you are being a bit premature in this assessment.
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:14 pmYo, Frank M, who said we have to “admit defeat” in order to leave?
First off, we already won. We took out Saddam, installed a democratically-elected government and built the world’s biggest embassy. What more do you want? Yeah, so we didn’t get their oil yet — that’ll come, you just gotta have faith, buddy.
So we declare victory and leave with our fists in the air in exhaltation. Declare “Mission Accomlished”!
Hey, it worked before, right?
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:15 pmAre you people really so out of touch with the post-9/11 reality that you are not willing to give the war on terror in Iraq another 6 months? What’s the alternative? Admit defeat, bring the troops here, tell them that it was all for nothing and that soon they’ll have to fight the insurgents again - only this time it’s here in the USA?
Comment by Frank M — January 22, 2008 @ 4:06 pm
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:15 pmLot easier to defend your own country/land ; if you don’t believe me , ask the Vietnamese , Koreans and Iraqis ………..
#22: Until the insurgents and Al Qaeda have been crushed.
Comment by Frank M — January 22, 2008 @ 4:09 pm
The Iraqi insurgents want us of their country which Bush had no right invading and the Al Qaeda issue is a red herring.
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:15 pm2008 is 22 days old, so I think you are being a bit premature in this assessment.
Comment by Keltoi — January 22, 2008 @ 4:14 pm
—-
Yeah there are almost 2 full Friedman’s to turn Iraq into a democratic utopia. As usual though, we only need one more.
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:16 pmLest we forget - 2007 was the deadliest year so far for our troops in Iraq. So far, 2008 is looking worse.
Comment by Chris L — January 22, 2008 @ 4:05 pm
2008 is 22 days old, so I think you are being a bit premature in this assessment.
Comment by Keltoi — January 22, 2008 @ 4:14 pm
Hence the “so far” part of the post.
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:17 pmThere must be some magic with the number 6, as applied to months.
Is it the amount of time one might forget the previous ‘hey, we’re turning a corner’ bullshit?
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:18 pmAdmit defeat, bring the troops here, tell them that it was all for nothing and that soon they’ll have to fight the insurgents again - only this time it’s here in the USA?
Comment by Frank M — January 22, 2008 @ 4:06 pm
You’re right, up until the bit about the insurgents. We don’t really have the necessary conditions an insurgency in the U.S., except maybe if the Lakotah Sioux secession really takes off.
But otherwise, yes. We should admit our mistake in invading Iraq, bring the troops home, and tell them that their sacrifice was indeed for nothing.
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:18 pmWho can tell us when the last time an invading force has won?
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:19 pm2008 is 22 days old, so I think you are being a bit premature in this assessment. Comment by Keltoi
Yet when Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and others stated it would be a short war they were called visionary.
Of course they were quite premature in their assessments…
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:21 pmThere must be some magic with the number 6, as applied to months.
Is it the amount of time one might forget the previous ‘hey, we’re turning a corner’ bullshit?
Comment by RUCerious — January 22, 2008 @ 4:18 pm
It’s just enough time for them to feel comfortable that the public will forget by then. They can then ask for another FU and extend things indefinitely.
If they asked for three months, they run the risk that someone in the “librul media” will recall that they said it would be hunky-dory by now and they were wrong.
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:22 pmdmit defeat, bring the troops here, tell them that it was all for nothing and that soon they’ll have to fight the insurgents again - only this time it’s here in the USA? Comment by Frank M — January 22, 2008 @ 4:06 pm
They already know that no WMD exists. BTW, Frank, how do you lose a freedom operation?
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:23 pmHence the “so far†part of the post.
Comment by ralph the wonder llama — January 22, 2008 @ 4:17 pm
I think you’re going about this the wrong way. The violence is irrelevant to the fact that Bush should have not invaded and that we should not be occupying a country we had no right invading.
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:23 pmLest we forget - 2007 was the deadliest year so far for our troops in Iraq. So far, 2008 is looking worse.
Comment by Chris L — January 22, 2008 @ 4:05 pm
2008 is 22 days old, so I think you are being a bit premature in this assessment.
Comment by Keltoi — January 22, 2008 @ 4:14 pm
Oh , I get it…..
You 0-for-7-year clowns can make unsubstantiated claims on what a “success” the Splurge has been (even with the clown leading this so-called “surge” claiming to need another 6 months before being able to properly determine whatever it is he’s claiming) , yet those that have predicted what a mess this would be from the very beginning cannot comment on the past 5 years of stupidity and futility…………
Yeah , that’s a tremendous argument you’ve got there ; great rationale.
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:23 pmWho can tell us when the last time an invading force has won?
Comment by hellinabucket — January 22, 2008 @ 4:19 pm
Jeff Gannon into Karl Rove ………..
Or vice versa
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:24 pmStop pouring billions of our taxpayer dollars down this stupid rathole every week! The Bush gangster regime has been bankrupting America for the last eight years, with their moronic tax cuts for the absurdly rich, by letting nine-eleven happen without even raising a pinkie finger to do anything to stop the coming attacks after dozens of G-D warnings. Then they invaded and occupied Afghanistan and Iraq, with no plan at all. Government by arrogant mental midgets… Bush and Cheney are a worst threat to America and our democracy than all the terrorists of the world put together. We need to stop practicing 19th century imperialism in the 21st century.
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:24 pmBetter yet, how does one lose an occupation? By staying.
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:25 pmLest we forget - 2007 was the deadliest year so far for our troops in Iraq. So far, 2008 is looking worse.
Comment by Chris L — January 22, 2008 @ 4:05 pm
2008 is 22 days old, so I think you are being a bit premature in this assessment.
Comment by Keltoi — January 22, 2008 @ 4:14 pm
Hence the “so far†part of the post.
Comment by ralph the wonder llama — January 22, 2008 @ 4:17 pm
83 American troops died in January of 2007.
The current total of American dead for November and December 2007 and January 2008 combined is 86.
Things have been going better there for awhile; I think Petraues is being cautiously optimistic as the situation is still tenuous.
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:26 pmFrank M forgets that Bush Sr cut and ran from the first gulf conflict and it wasnt insurgents who followed us home from Iraq it was Saudi extremists such as Osama.
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:27 pmWho can tell us when the last time an invading force has won?
Comment by hellinabucket — January 22, 2008 @ 4:19 pm
I’m guessing 1066, but this may be temporary. It’s never too late for a Saxon uprising.
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:29 pmSorry Betrayus, you have already gotten your second six months. In case you don’t remember, this escalation was only supposed to last for six months. It has now lasted over a year and you want another six.
The fact of the matter is you can’t keep it together for another six months unless you extend the 15 month deployment most soldiers are working under to 24 months. I don’t think that the American public is going to allow you to get away with that. You broke our military and it’s time that someone with some sense fixed it. It can’t be fixed by endlessly extending the deployment of our soldiers.
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:33 pmIt is like a contractor keeps telling you the building will be erected soon, need more money and time, give me another few months.
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:34 pmAt one point you are not going to believe him..
Another six months - who could have predicted yet another Friedman Unit?
But this is early - we weren’t due for another Friedman Unit until March. What’s moved up the timetable? Could it be the news on the economy?
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:34 pmWho can tell us when the last time an invading force has won?
Comment by hellinabucket — January 22, 2008 @ 4:19 pm
There are invasions and there are invasions. The European invasions of North and South America were pretty clearly “wins”. . . for the Europeans.
A better question might be “when was the last time an insurgency failed?” Short of wiping out the entire population of a country, a la Tamerlane, or wiping out most of the population through disease and destruction of the food supply, a la USA vs native Americans, it’s not particularly good odds for the occupier.
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:34 pmWho can tell us when the last time an invading force has won?
Comment by hellinabucket — January 22, 2008 @ 4:19 pm
I’m guessing 1066, but this may be temporary. It’s never too late for a Saxon uprising.
Comment by toasterhead — January 22, 2008 @ 4:29 pm
Good thing you added that caveat, TH, else Keltoi might have accused you of being premature.
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:35 pmThings have been going better there for awhile;
Comment by Keltoi — January 22, 2008 @ 4:26 pm
You of course , being the offspring of both the Patton and MacArthur families………..
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:35 pm6 days
6 weeks
6 months
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:35 pmThings have been going better there for awhile; I think Petraues is being cautiously optimistic as the situation is still tenuous.
Comment by Keltoi — January 22, 2008 @ 4:26 pm
Forgot the optimism. We shouldn’t be in their country.
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:37 pmThey’ll keep adding 6 more months until they find another country to invade. If they’d been able to start the war in Iran the way they wanted to Iraq would be a total success and we’d be on our way out
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:37 pmAre you people really so out of touch with the post-9/11 reality that you are not willing to give the war on terror in Iraq another 6 months? What’s the alternative? Admit defeat, bring the troops here, tell them that it was all for nothing and that soon they’ll have to fight the insurgents again - only this time it’s here in the USA?
Comment by Frank M
Well, since the “war on terror” (whatever that means) is not in Iraq and there is no way to “win” an occupation, I do say that we apologize to Iraq for ruining their country and take our solders and go home. That’s what the people in Iraq want, that’s what the Iraqi Parliament want. So why is it Francine, that we don’t care what the country we are occupying wants?
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:38 pmThe troops need a rest. Let’s round up the trolls and ship their asses over there. We’d be hearing a lot less bravado, for sure.
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:39 pmWho can tell us when the last time an invading force has won?
Comment by hellinabucket — January 22, 2008 @ 4:19 pm
When Hitler defeated Poland and much of Europe?
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:39 pmPetreus wants another 6 months for the war profiteers to fill their coffers! Hah! He reminds me of the toddler at the amusement park whose parents spent all of their money and the little snit keeps hollaring for “one more ride”!
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:40 pm- There is a fifth dimension beyond that which is known to man. It is a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity. It is an area which we call “The Betrayus Zone”.
- That signpost up ahead: your next stop: The Betrayus Zone!
- You’ve just crossed over into… the Betrayus Zone.
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:43 pmHi Plunger! One can only surmise and imagine what our solders are suffering at the hands of the Blackwater mercenaries. We’ll learn that sad ugly truth one day, too. As for now, what do you know about the DU exposure which our soldiers and the people of Iraq have sustained since we’ve been using the highly illegal and banned “depleted uranium” in our shells? This is one hellova horror story which is being squelched by the military and this administration. Those of our vets who do get to return are forever contaminated and tainted by it. Plus they pass it on to their loved ones through the DNA. Depleted uranium has a “half life” of 4 & l/2 billion years. We’ve totally destroyed Kosovo, Afghanistan, and Iraq - soil and water - for the next 4 billion years+.
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:43 pmLove the Betrayus Zone concept because this guy’s clearly from another planet. He lives in the “bubble zone” with Herr Bush.
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:44 pmFrank M,
The terrorists are already here, and they are watching you and you’re home plotting their next move.
That guy who was tailgating you the other day, obviously Al Qaeda.
The guy next door who only mows his lawn once a year needs to be investigated by Homeland Security.
The guy you saw down town with brown skin is stealing your Social Security and needs to be arrested now.
If we don’t kill all these people wherever they are in the world will we will be admitting defeat?
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:44 pmFrank M forgets
Comment by Xisithrus — January 22, 2008 @ 4:27 pm
Frank doesn’t forget. He never learns anything to begin with.
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:44 pmPlunger: The new Abbott/Costello charade is “who’s winning” (instead of who’s on first). This is the biggest joke imaginable. How can anyone win something where there is no enemy? How can there be a war or the concept of fighting someone without a declared enemy in human form? (You can’t fight a concept with guns….duh….what dipdongs we have in office!). And since there’s never been an enemy identified other than Hussein, there cannot be a war which can be legitimately “won”. So who’s winning? Certainly it is not US.
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:46 pmSo the idea which the Republican assclowns are spinning (McCain) of “winning” something is absolutely moronic. There’s nothing to win. What’s left of the country? The only thing left to win is the oil which was the impetus behind all of this….this we know. But the Iraqi people are much more intelligent than the morons we have making decisions - they’ll not permit our greedy little hands in their honey pot anytime soon.
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:47 pmPlunger: If you have links on the depleted uranium situation which is erroneously being classified as PTSD, please post it here. It will help us with the research.
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:48 pmThe liars all need to be in prison - soon!
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:49 pmwhat dipdongs we have in office!).
Comment by Veritas — January 22, 2008 @ 4:46 pm
Do I even want to know what this means? I’m pretty sure you’re being a potty mouth Veritas but I don’t really know.
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:49 pmTwo comments
Bush is doing everything that he can to push this disaster into the hands of the next President and well beyond. Why shouldn’t this also be a tactic? Just keep asking for more time.
Could you imagine someone in the private sector with this type of delaying tactics? Just six more months. Well now we have different goals (or in the case of the Republicans NO goals). Well we’ll just change the subject for the 18 agenda points that the Iraqis were going to meet to well just give us another six months.
And the 30 percenters are able to keep the Republicans in Congress from preventing any type of change in policy.
Unbelievable.
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:53 pmHow long have we been told ‘another six months’? Quo usque tandem abutere patientia nostra?
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:54 pmAmerica, where idiocy is rewarded.
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:55 pmI don’t think military invasions are doomed for failure, Afghanistan was sovereign and when we were provoked we went in there and changed the government and military, that’s basic war. The occupation and dominance of countries is what’s really hard.
But anyway, this waiting and waiting is asinine. Bush ran on a humble foreign policy and not building nations, he’s a fraud. We aren’t even doing that well, there are empty buildings (or filled with feces), lost cash (actual bills), lost weapons, terrifying raids for both parties, frightening the normal people. Some things are positive but it costs too much. It’s not feasible to end sectarian strife and terrorism, they’re bigger issues than using military measures and questionable rebuilding. The only ways are under absolute oppression (but there’s still terror tactics) or near-complete contentment and with the strife, good luck.
The Iraq situation is like a surgery. We knocked out the patient and went in quickly and removed tumors (Husseins) that everyone agreed were malignant. Then when we’re trying to patch things up there were severe complications, which we are trying to fix… but surgery can only go on so long and things aren’t getting that much better. We need to close up and admit that while some good things happen, it might not have been necessary, or at least that we can’t fix everything and polic the world.
January 22nd, 2008 at 5:02 pmPetraeus: I Need Another Six Months To Determine Whether ‘We’ve Reached A Turning Point’
Takes 6 months for a Chimpy/White House directive to reach you , does it ?
January 22nd, 2008 at 5:03 pm#83 ‘dipdongs’ is the civil version of;
January 22nd, 2008 at 5:03 pm‘Lying war profiteering killers and thieves’
Plunger: The new Abbott/Costello charade is “who’s winning†(instead of who’s on first). This is the biggest joke imaginable. How can anyone win something where there is no enemy? How can there be a war or the concept of fighting someone without a declared enemy in human form? (You can’t fight a concept with guns….duh….what dipdongs we have in office!). And since there’s never been an enemy identified other than Hussein, there cannot be a war which can be legitimately “wonâ€. So who’s winning? Certainly it is not US.
Comment by Veritas — January 22, 2008 @ 4:46 pm
I think the Neocons have determined that the Iraqis are the enemy.
January 22nd, 2008 at 5:05 pmThe Neocons haven’t figured a damn thing. They just want to kill.
January 22nd, 2008 at 5:09 pmAdmit defeat, bring the troops here, tell them that it was all for nothing and that soon they’ll have to fight the insurgents again - only this time it’s here in the USA?
Comment by Frank M
It was for nothing!
January 22nd, 2008 at 5:11 pmNo WMDs! No yellow cake! No terrorists!
4000 of our troops died for N-O-T-H-I-N-G!
We created the insurgency!
btw, there’s only one insurgent in the good ol’ USofA and he’s hiding under your bed. BOO!
#85 “How long have we been told ‘another six months’?”
Six months ago.
January 22nd, 2008 at 5:14 pmAnother six months, after the last six months, and after yet again another six months after the 3rd six months and just after the first six months.
We’ve heard the six months story over and over.
Buck Fush
January 22nd, 2008 at 5:16 pmComment by plunger — January 22, 2008 @ 4:46 pm
plunger - I see that I spoke too soon. Oh well, if you really don’t want people to read your posts, keep on posting your cut-and-paste four page plagiarisms.
January 22nd, 2008 at 5:19 pmThe turning point is right around the corner.
January 22nd, 2008 at 5:25 pmPlunger # 79 You’re right on target!! Chronology and facts are correct. They’ve lied to us and should be hung.
January 22nd, 2008 at 5:31 pmI have never understood the term ‘war on terror’. American case law provides that war exists between 2 sovreign powers. These 250+ people are AWOL from the war. We haven’t had contact with them for 6 1/2 years. Of course in Iraq where we’ve gone sticking sticks into hornet nests, but then, we were looking for trouble.
able as
They just keep repeating “6 months”, every day, in the hopes it will eventually be true.
January 22nd, 2008 at 5:34 pmThey’ll just keep adding 6 more months until Bush is out of office.
January 22nd, 2008 at 5:44 pmPetraeus is a terrible American and a horrible human being.
January 22nd, 2008 at 5:48 pmA noun, a verb and 6 more months… Thanks for keeping us posted General. Why does Cheney have this guy running the war anyway?
January 22nd, 2008 at 5:57 pmWhy does Cheney have this guy running the war anyway?
Comment by zathrus — January 22, 2008 @ 5:57 pm
because Cheney is in it for the profits, and he’s making money hand over fist, from the deaths of our troops and Iraqi innocents. there is hardly anyone in earth’s history more blatantly evil than Cheney.
January 22nd, 2008 at 6:06 pmBetrayus is earning his nickname. What a tool, what a fool, what a traitor.
January 22nd, 2008 at 6:10 pmTake your Friedman unit, and shove it up your ass, pussy.
January 22nd, 2008 at 6:19 pmAre you people really so out of touch with the post-9/11 reality that you are not willing to give the war on terror in Iraq another 6 months? What’s the alternative? Admit defeat, bring the troops here, tell them that it was all for nothing and that soon they’ll have to fight the insurgents again - only this time it’s here in the USA?
Comment by Frank M —
January 22nd, 2008 at 6:42 pmSince when did we start calling the electrician when the roof is leaking? I, as most here and around the world really want to understand this mentality.
What’s the alternative?
January 22nd, 2008 at 6:52 pmComment by Frank M
How about we begin by
1. admit our error
2. compensate those we have damaged
3. Begin the healing process by using the judicial system… maybe let the Iraqi people use their judicial system and do what they may with the entire Bush crime family.
4. Sue all that have profited from this horrific deed and put the funds back into our treasury.
Did some psychologist discover that the average American’s memory is only capable of remembering the past five months or something? Or is that the collective memory of the MSM? There’s got to be a reason this six month at a time bleeding of lives and resources has been so successful.
January 22nd, 2008 at 6:53 pm3. Begin the healing process by using the judicial system… maybe let the Iraqi people use their judicial system and do what they may with the entire Bush crime family.
Comment by had enough — January 22, 2008 @ 6:52 pm
Maybe the Hussein Treatment?
January 22nd, 2008 at 7:08 pmBetrayus has earned his nickname, once again. In Sept. 2007, he told Congress to go “Cheney themselves,” as he gave a calculated run-around on the Iraq War. So much for a decision in September. In fact, he said, “Hey chumps, don’t bother me until March 2008, when I’ll come back with another report.” Congress did nothing.
NOW, with the Stock Market tanking, he has the nerve to pull his 6 More Months mantra. We need to stop Madman Bush & Betrayus.
January 22nd, 2008 at 7:46 pmAdmit defeat, bring the troops here, tell them that it was all for nothing and that soon they’ll have to fight the insurgents again - only this time it’s here in the USA?
Comment by Frank M
frank are you serious? - do you really think that the usa will be flooded by militants representing no country’s army,running around the streets with ak-47’s? - tell us how you think that a violent insurgency will rise up in america if the usa pulls out of iraq
January 22nd, 2008 at 7:49 pmI don’t agree with Frank that there will be anything near a flood of insurgent to the US if we pull out. But I do think there will be a flood of insurgents into Iraq, particularly Anbar and Baghdad, where we have weakened them substantially.
January 22nd, 2008 at 8:32 pmBut I do think there will be a flood of insurgents into Iraq, particularly Anbar and Baghdad, where we have weakened them substantially.
Comment by thirdparty — January 22, 2008 @ 8:32 pm
Still buying the Bushco lies and willful ignorance? Not too bright. Don’t forget, these are the very same people that guaranteed a short, cheap, decisive win. and they wouldn’t know Al Qaeda from Al Roker.
January 22nd, 2008 at 8:49 pm“But I do think there will be a flood of insurgents into Iraq, particularly Anbar and Baghdad, where we have weakened them substantially.”
Comment by thirdparty
From thirdparty’s link:
For each assessment of progress against AQI, there is a cautionary note that comes from long and often painful experience. Despite the increased killings and captures of AQI members, Odierno said, “it only takes three people” to construct and detonate a suicide car bomb that can “kill thousands.” The goal, he said, is to make each attack less effective and lengthen the periods between them.
Right now, said another U.S. official, who declined even to be identified by the agency he works for, the data are “insufficient and difficult to measure.”
“AQI is definitely taking some hits,” the official said. “There is definite progress, and that is undeniable good news. But what we don’t know is how long it will last . . . and whether it’s sustainable. . . . They have withstood withering pressure for a long period of time.” Three months, he said, is not long enough to consider a trend sustainable.
Views of the extent to which AQI has been vanquished also reflect differences over the extent to which it operates independently from Osama bin Laden’s central al-Qaeda organization, based in Pakistan. “Everyone has an opinion about how franchisement of al-Qaeda works,” a senior White House official said. “Is it through central control, or is it decentralized?” The answer to that question, the official said, affects “your ability to determine how successfully [AQI] has been defeated or neutralized. Is it ‘game over’?”
Is this supposed to to suggest that withdrawl will mean a reversal of recent trends? It doesn’t read that way.
January 22nd, 2008 at 8:53 pmGeneal Petraeus is again adding to the global warming problem. If bullshit isn’t being spewed out by him or one of his generals in Iraq trying for their next promotions, it’s Bush telling us the economy is strong. I say, let’s put all this bullshit to good use. How about a car that runs on bullshit? Since it’s already a food source for Bush-supporters (they eat the stuff morning, noon, and night), why can’t it be used as fuel source for us? (It seems like there’s an inexhaustible supply, as well - the U.S. being the world’s large producer.)
January 22nd, 2008 at 9:08 pmComment by jm8094 — January 22, 2008 @ 9:08 pm
LOL! Finally a solution!
January 22nd, 2008 at 9:31 pmgeneral betrayus. tell me moveon didn’t have it right.
January 22nd, 2008 at 10:20 pmAs I’ve repeated over the past year, this SURGE was a DELAY tactic. Calm the violence LONG ENOUGH to get Republicans’ Re-elected AND/OR LONG ENOUGH to make it APPEAR successfull BEFORE Bush Leaves office in Jan 09. That way, if Dem’s withdraw troops and things go badly, THEY WILL BE BLAMED FOR IRAQ’S failure — Not Bush.
The Tax Rebate is also a ploy to help get Bush’s Approval Ratings up before leaving office. Give people big money and they will Smile on you.
Coonsey’s View
January 22nd, 2008 at 10:28 pmhttp://www.freewebs.com/coonsey/
Comment by Frank M — January 22, 2008 @ 4:06 pm
All for nothing?? Let’s see…
1. Rid Iraq of WMDs, particularly those of the nuke type. Check.
2. Rid Iraq of an evil dictator. Check.
3. Free the Iraqi people. Check.
4. Remove Iraqi threat to its neighbors. Check.
5. Plant seeds of democracy in Iraq. Check.
6. Hold elections in Iraq. Check.
That’s a minimum of 6 goals we’ve reached in 5 years.
As for the insurgents (you mean terrorists, right? Or are they one and the same in your mind?) following us here to fight, why would they? Hell, if they wanted to fight us (meaning you and me) here, they’d already be here wreaking havoc. If they are wanting to destroy America and take away our freedoms, don’t you think they are kinda wasting their time in Iraq? Just what freedoms do you think the terrorists in Iraq want to take away from, say, Jim Taylor living in Austin, TX?
January 22nd, 2008 at 10:47 pmmeanwhile:
“Musharraf: Pakistan isn’t hunting Osama”
trolls = pwned
January 22nd, 2008 at 10:52 pmBesides, let’s dispense with this “give us 6 more months” crap, shall we? All this does is give the anti-war group some glimmer of hope that things will improve, and we might…just might…be able to start bringing troops home. We have been told countless times to give them 6 more months because things will surely improve by that time. And when they don’t, and we complain, those on the Right tell us to have patience.
Let me tell you something, wingnuts. When we have our leaders, such as the good general, the VP, and the Sec. of Defense telling us “things will improve in 6 months,” “the insurgency is in its last throes,” and “I doubt the war will last 6 months,” then by damn, we expect quick resolutions to the conflict. So don’t come in here and tell us to quit whining about the freaking war.
This mis-administration has bullcrapped its way through this “war” from day one. We have been yanked around for 5 GD years by people in the government who (1) don’t know their asses from a hole in the ground, and (2) those that do, don’t give a fu(k.
I want to hear Petraeus say we’ll leave Iraq when we are damned good and ready. I mean, after all, that’s what the goal is, right? Even Bush has said it many times: the generals on the ground will determine when we leave.
January 22nd, 2008 at 11:06 pm1 Friedman Unit = 1 Petraeus Unit
January 23rd, 2008 at 12:03 amGeneral Petraeus will go down in history as the modern Atlas who raised on his strong shoulders the ’sun of victory’ in the former gloomy sky of Iraq.
January 23rd, 2008 at 2:00 am“Thank you for your service and leadership, General.”
Of course, I will not be joining you in the actual fighting.
But thank you General for protecting my freedom from a threat so terrible that only 1% of the US population is required to actually do the fighting.
That is, of course a 1% I will never be a part of…but thank you all the same.
For all you in favor of the war ideology, being that it is, as GW claims a “war of ideology”…please go down to the closest recruiting center and sign up for the fight.
You will be happy to know that they are now taking just about anyone under the age of 42.
In other words, put up or shut up.
January 23rd, 2008 at 2:07 am.
ANOTHER FREEEEEEEKIN’ SIX MONTHS?
After the last “six more months” that followed that other “six more months” that was needed because the previous “six more months” were needed to complete the first “six more months”…
I think I missed a few monthly cycles…
But we get the idea.
BETRAY-US can’t finish the job!
He needs more time, money and troops.
More time(”six more months”)
Money(spending passed today & more contracts)
Troops(not a draft but more Blackwater)
Can you say…
V I E T R A Q!!!
.
January 23rd, 2008 at 3:17 am.
“we’ve succeeded militarily.†= MISSION ACCOMPLISHED = 2003
SIX MORE MONTHS?
.
January 23rd, 2008 at 3:19 am.
* Feb. 7 2003, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, to U.S. troops in Aviano, Italy: “It is unknowable how long that conflict will last. It could last six days, six weeks. I doubt six months.“
We knew then they were LIARS.
What do we know NOW?
.
January 23rd, 2008 at 3:25 am.
Comment by Frank M — January 22, 2008 @ 4:09 pm
Please spend that “SIX MORE MONTHS” over there “crushing” that common enemy.
1:1 odds you’ll be peeing your panties in less than six more minutes.
.
January 23rd, 2008 at 3:47 amAre you people really so out of touch with the post-9/11 reality that you are not willing to give the war on terror in Iraq another 6 months? What’s the alternative? Admit defeat, bring the troops here, tell them that it was all for nothing and that soon they’ll have to fight the insurgents again - only this time it’s here in the USA?
Comment by Frank M — January 22, 2008 @ 4:06 pm
This is the first time I’ve posted on this site and the resident idiot, Frank M., is the cause of it all. I’ve read all the right wingers who infect this site and find that this stupid moron and his twin, O.Bigfoot(up his ass) have taken public discourse back to the stone age.
January 23rd, 2008 at 6:14 amI’m just not sure how any of the progressives on this site can even stomach reading the insane, irrational “postings” of the right-wing, fascist, war-mongering, hate-filled, brain-dead stupid slugs that are allowed to pass off their outlandish claims as civil discourse.
I know also that the right wingers are famous about “baiting” lefties with their stupid sayings, but, in this case, I don’t believe Adolph M. is trying to do that. He’s just speaking his…….ahem……”mind.”
Classical Bait & Switch.
January 23rd, 2008 at 7:58 amAre you people really so out of touch with the post-9/11 reality that you are not willing to give the war on terror in Iraq another 6 months? What’s the alternative? Admit defeat, bring the troops here, tell them that it was all for nothing and that soon they’ll have to fight the insurgents again - only this time it’s here in the USA?
And they are going to transport their ‘forces’ to America by motorboat?
January 23rd, 2008 at 8:12 amVery wearisome talking point. Are the TheoCons still even using that one?
Here is some crappy news….MSN is reporting that a Canadian gov’t. commissioned-panel has concluded that Canada’s forces may have to remain in Afghanistan indefinitely. Let me guess. We are fighting them over there so we don’t have to fight them over here. No, we are spreading democracy. I mean, they hate our freedom.
Oh, and for anyone who thinks the Afghanistan occupation is slightly more noble because it wasn’t a founded on a lie, you are wrong. Do your research.
January 23rd, 2008 at 8:16 am6 more months.
Fighting them over there so we don’t have to fight them over here.
Meanwhile, people are being shot to death in churches and malls and schools by deranged Americans.
Store owners are being murdered because of a robbery gone bad. Who’s doing the shooting? Americans.
Our fellow Americans are being murdered, some assassination-style, over drug deals gone bad.
People are dying because some ignorant person drives through a stoplight because she is too busy talking on her fu(king cell phone to pay attention to traffic (true story…happed a couple of years ago in my city.) Who’s behind the wheel? Americans.
But who are we supposed to be afraid of? Oh, the terrorists.
January 23rd, 2008 at 11:37 amYou can call me a troll or whatever you want, but you liberals are wrong and apparently don’t know how to read! Petraeus DID NOT say he needed another 6 months for the surge. That would be MAJOR NEWS, wouldn’t it? He basically said you can’t know Iraq has had a major turnround in real-time; you wouldn’t realize it until 6 months have passed. THAT’s what he said.
As far as I know, he is still sticking with his plan to have another assessment and recommendation on what to do next in March.
I don’t like this war any more than the next person, but some basic, objective analysis is due here - not more Moveon cheap shots like Gen. “Betrayus” insults. Think of something new next time.
January 23rd, 2008 at 12:48 pmAnd another thing, Joe Lieberman may be a war hawk, but he’s NOT a “conservative.” You guys at TP should know he’s very liberal on domestic issues and always has been.
January 23rd, 2008 at 12:52 pmBarfly, just saw your message, and I think we both have valid yet not mutually exclusive points. That article points to a substantial weakening of AQI. But could it be reversed? Sure it could, and I think the most likely way it will reverse is if we relent and retreat our forces. Furthermore, I understand that as long as there are three members there will still be violence, but we have to do our best to destabilize terrorist groups so that the likelihood of (a) having enough recruits to pull off all of those suicide attempts and attacks and (b) the infrastructural capacity to execute those violence in a way that makes them a political player is reduced. There is no doubt that al Qaida, for multiple reasons, has become a much less meaningful player in Iraq, especially in Anbar where the people have turned against them and we have provided the security to largely keep them out.
January 24th, 2008 at 1:28 am