FLASHBACK: Economists Predicted That A Prolonged U.S. Presence In Iraq Could Lead To A Recession
FLASHBACK: Economists Predicted That A Prolonged U.S. Presence In Iraq Could Lead To A Recession
In yesterday’s press briefing, a reporter asked White House Press Secretary Dana Perino about the tie between the current U.S. economy and the Iraq war. Perino quickly dismissed the reporter’s question, insisting that the U.S. economy has been “very strong” and adding that the money was necessary to “take the fight to the enemy” after 9/11. Watch it:
Oil prices are at approximately $88 a barrel, although they have dropped from the record high of $100 earlier this month. As Nobel laureate Joseph Stiglitz recently noted in Vanity Fair, “The soaring price of oil is clearly related to the Iraq war. The issue is not whether to blame the war for this but simply how much to blame it.”
Before the war, economists were predicting that oil prices at just $75 a barrel could potentially send the U.S. economy into a recession. Therefore, the current economic situation should not come as a complete shock to the Bush administration. A look at economists’ pre-war predictions:
“A war against Iraq could cost the United States hundreds of billions of dollars, play havoc with an already depressed domestic economy and tip the world into recession because of the adverse effect on oil prices, inflation and interest rates, an academic study [by William Nordhaus, Sterling professor of economics at Yale University] has warned.” [Independent, 11/16/02]
“If war with Iraq drags on longer than the few weeks or months most are predicting, corporate revenues will be flat for the coming year and will put the U.S. economy at risk of recession, according to a poll of chief financial officers.” [CBS MarketWatch, 3/20/03]
“If the conflict wears on or, worse, spreads, the economic consequences become very serious. Late last year, George Perry at the Brookings Institution ran some simulations and found that after taking into account a reasonable use of oil reserves, a cut in world oil production of just 6.5 percent a year would send the United States and the world into recession.” [Robert Shapiro, former undersecretary of commerce in the Clinton administration, 10/2/02]
“Gerd Häusler, the IMF’s director of international capital markets, said that ‘purely from a financial markets perspective, a serious conflict with Iraq would not be a very healthy development.’ … Häusler said there could be a repeat of what happened in 1990 following the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait, when there was a sharp rise in oil prices.” [World Bank, 9/02]
MoveOn has a petition here to tell Congress to “quickly pass a stimulus package” that helps mitigate this “Iraq recession.”
UPDATE: Martin at Scholars and Rogues has more.
Transcript:
QUESTION: Dana, how can the president give a great financial boost to help the ailing economy when it’s being held down by $9 billion a month to pay for the Iraq war? How is he going to really bring that together?
PERINO: Well, I don’t — you know, we’ve been at war, as you know, since September 11th, the day after September 11th, when the president decided we were going to take the fight to the enemy. And during the past several years, both in Afghanistan and Iraq, during those years that we’ve been at war, this economy has been very strong. We’ve had 52 consecutive months of job growth.
And fighting the war and making sure our troops have what they need is going to be imperative to the safety of this nation. The president does not apologize for spending money on national security.
Going forward, what the president wants to do in this short-term package is to make sure that we get enough money moving in the economy so that we can avoid the potential risks of a downturn.
QUESTION: I’m not saying apologize, but that is a fact that on your books, if you’re saying you have a checkbook, you’re writing out your checks for the $9 billion a month, and then you still have other things. You say you want to give incentives to businesses, financially, I guess, and tax relief to consumers. How do you balance those books, though…
PERINO: I think I would flip it around and say I think that members of Congress might be able to find some of their pet projects and their earmarks that they could eliminate, that could help with this package. We’re talking about, you know, 1 percent of GDP that’s going to be robust enough to be able to have an impact.
But the president is certainly not going to shortchange our troops. One of the most important things he can do is make sure that the economy stays strong, that it supports all Americans and it certainly supports the troops.
And it supports the economies overseas as well, in terms of if you look at places like Iraq, we’ve been able to help them over the past several years, as they’re getting their democracy under way, but their economy is starting to improve as well. And so we can start transferring over to the Iraqis more of that responsibility. And the Iraqis right now, I think today, are talking through their budget for 2009. And they’re moving forward in a way that we would want them to. And they were going to take up a lot more responsibility to pay for their own security and their roads and bridges and their schools, all the things that we pay for here.
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No shiz-nizzle, sher-lozzle.
January 23rd, 2008 at 1:56 pm"A war against Iraq could cost the United States hundreds of billions of dollars, play havoc with an already depressed domestic economy and tip the world into recession because of the adverse effect on oil prices, inflation and interest rates..."
Yes, but it's been great for the Bush family and friends. Isn't struggling to find gas money really worth it if it makes the oil barrons more money.
January 23rd, 2008 at 1:59 pm.
AND YET, HERE WE ARE...
.
January 23rd, 2008 at 2:00 pmJust one more year and Crawford gets it idiot back.
January 23rd, 2008 at 2:02 pm's
January 23rd, 2008 at 2:05 pmI'm shocked.... SHOCKED I TELL YOU!
January 23rd, 2008 at 2:07 pmTherefore, the current economic situation should not come as a complete shock to the Bush administration.
Of course it comes as a shock. When you don't listen to anyone everything is a surprise.
The economy is strong only for the uber rich whom are taking taking taking. Everyone else is struggling.
MoveOn has a petition here to tell Congress to “quickly pass a stimulus package that helps those who need it the most and will spend it the fastest.â€
As for MoveOn's statement, I don't see how because people who get a few hundred bucks from the government to spend are going to spend it on heat, gas for their car, and food. This is not going to stimulate anything. At best, it will make shareholders of Exxon, et al, and some utilities happy. This will only help the average person make it through the winter. How about:
1. JOBS! No money, no spendy.
2. Jobs that actually pay enough to have discretionary spending.
3. Healthcare that makes wages competitive for companies to price their products on a world stage and give workers additional money to buy the stuff that keeps the economy afloat.
I'm no economist and even I can see this is needed.
January 23rd, 2008 at 2:08 pmThe Iraq Recession. I do hope this sticks as the label.
January 23rd, 2008 at 2:09 pmWho could have foreseen such a thing?
Bush's legacy needs to be scraped off the sidewalk and dropped in a trash can. It's starting to stink.
January 23rd, 2008 at 2:11 pmToo bad bush has learned nothing in 7 years, like taking advice from successful, experienced people like Warren Buffet who three months ago said we were slidding into a recession. But, hey if bush had a brain he would quit selling America out everyday.
January 23rd, 2008 at 2:16 pmJohn Kerry - move on over to your sympathetic conservative sites if you are so upset by the truth on this one.
January 23rd, 2008 at 2:17 pm10,
Hey retard I could give a shit less what the markets are doing, I'm busy going through my sofa for gas money. You suck*ss putz.
January 23rd, 2008 at 2:17 pmTroll John Kerry:
When Clinton took office, the Dow was around 3200. When Bush took over, it was over 10,000.
Now it's under 12,000.
I won't even go into the drop in real wages for most Americans over that time. You have enough trouble understanding simple concepts.
January 23rd, 2008 at 2:19 pmThis from Yahoo:
"Dwindling U.S. funds in Iraq threaten fragile security" They must have that wrong the retard running this country says we have a vibrant economy, plenty of money, well I suppose as long as we have the Chinese to handle our debt, yeah thats a good plan.
January 23rd, 2008 at 2:20 pmNotice how JK insinuates the markets to discussion of the economy. How telling is that?
I play the market and a correction is long overdue. This entry was about the economy on a whole not just the markets.
Let them eat cake, eh, jerkoff?
January 23rd, 2008 at 2:21 pmjohn kerry is just copy and paste troll......he made the exact same post on another thread...hit and run coward.....irrelivant.
January 23rd, 2008 at 2:21 pmOK One more time. The economy or the welfare of the US means NOTHING to the bushco/Vulcan cabal. They have an agenda to change the world to their twisted view and thats it. Time is short and there is still much to do. Right now the action is in destroying options for the successor. Recession? Depression? Just new shocks to use to grab more wealth and power.
January 23rd, 2008 at 2:22 pmYou all are SICK!!
Comment by John Kerry is a true American hero (I am just a snot nosed kid) — January 23, 2008 @ 2:13 pm
Dude, I think your mom said you can play Guitar Hero III now!
January 23rd, 2008 at 2:23 pmRun along!
The term "correction" infers that there was something wrong in the beginning.
JK has been absent from early posts on the 473 days of missing emails from the bush administration and the 900 lies just recently discussed.
No need to thump your chest here jk if you are too chicken to defend your boys on earlier threads.
Thanks for playing though.
The Iraq Recession, brought to you by Bush.
January 23rd, 2008 at 2:24 pmsomeone posted this earlier....there apparently were trolls before john kerry.....
“Any lack of confidence in the economic future or the basic strength of business in the United States is foolish.â€
—Herbert Hoover
November, 1929
Does this look like a correction?
January 23rd, 2008 at 2:25 pmStock Markets Plunge Worldwide
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080121/ap_on_bi_ge/world_markets;_ylt=AjNKVfqcz3sn4NmRijtcdj2s0NUE
John Kerry said
The market did all of the rebounding it possibly could yesterday when the Dow lost only 1.1% or whatever the figure was. There are NO positive economic indices that would signal great things in our economic future. Spin, spin, spin!
January 23rd, 2008 at 2:25 pm@ 10 - "this is NORMAL"
The 75bp rate cut yesterday was the largest rate cut since 1981, and the largest unscheduled rate move ever.
So I can only guess that you when you wrote "NORMAL" you meant "UNPRECEDENTED", a mistake often made by total dickwads.
January 23rd, 2008 at 2:29 pmHOLY MARKET BOOM BATMAN!!! ralph the wonder llama is dead on. Clinton's presidency shows a steady rise in the stock market. Bush' is stuck in the mud and now being swallowed whole.
incredible.
January 23rd, 2008 at 2:30 pmThe Iraq Recession. I do hope this sticks as the label.
Comment by hellinabucket — January 23, 2008 @ 2:09 pm
I've been calling it the Bush recession.
I like your label, too.
January 23rd, 2008 at 2:33 pmBush's Surge and Splurge Recession
January 23rd, 2008 at 2:35 pmTroll, noun
definition: too stupid to get it
January 23rd, 2008 at 2:37 pmInvesting in infrastructure = long term payoff to cities, workers, economy.
Investing in bullets, DU shells, tanks and other military disposables = ...
January 23rd, 2008 at 2:38 pmYou all are SICK!!
Comment by John Kerry — January 23, 2008 @ 2:13 pm
Take a look in the mirror, freak.
January 23rd, 2008 at 2:38 pm#10 When the market was going UP, UP, UP the lib media and websites and liars like Olbermahn NEVER mentioned it! Why, because it was GOOD news and GOOD news is BAD news for you cut and run cowards!!
Up, up, and up? You mean the stock market that has lost money for the last seven years, once inflation is accounted for?
January 23rd, 2008 at 2:39 pmJK, you're losing it little guy, you should just shut up and listen instead of ranting. Your God Bush has tainted everything he has touched with a stinking brown stain and yet you get all worked up and start screaming like a hysterical teenager to defend him.
Bush is a loser. Bush has exposed you 25%ers, ripped the bullshit cover off of the hateful Rightwingers and in the end, accidently does some good. He can die knowing that his one success (albeit totally accidental) was to destroy the Republican Party.
January 23rd, 2008 at 2:40 pmThe Surge and Splurge Recession sounds good as well.
January 23rd, 2008 at 2:40 pmInvesting in bullets, DU shells, tanks and other military disposables = …
Money to Bush's cronies, of course. Money out of our tax dollars and gifted and regifted to oil, defense, and nothing else (oh, except for truckloads to Iraq and the cronies there).
January 23rd, 2008 at 2:41 pmHe can die knowing that his one success (albeit totally accidental) was to destroy the Republican Party.
Careful, this is something I will celebrate for decades to come! :-) And it couldn't have happened to (or by) a bigger dunce.
January 23rd, 2008 at 2:42 pmSick, hold up let me get this straight #10; the majority of hard working Americans who must decide whether to spend their last dollars on food or gas every month because a fundamentally flawed system celebrites and bends over backward for the top 1% percent in this country and you call these people SICK. My friend, check yourself, we’re not talking big business or the wealthy, we’re talking about struggling citizens who this country is letting down, son, finish high school, then take your glasses off. It’s a big world out there, your Mommy or Daddy doesn’t have to rule all of it. Sick, you sucka.
January 23rd, 2008 at 2:42 pm"Perino quickly dismissed the reporter’s question, insisting that the U.S. economy has been “very strong†and adding that the money was necessary to “take the fight to the enemy†after 9/11."
--------------------------------------------
Blondie Peroxide continues to prove that she is nothing more than a windup doll -- mindlessly parroting the talking points with which she has been programmed. She's even oblivious to the fact that nobody believes this crap anymore. The U.S. economy is NOT "very strong" -- anybody in the workforce (or trying to get into the workforce) knows this. And although at one time a majority of Americans believed Iraq to be "the enemy" after 9/11, most now realize that Saddam Hussein had nothing to do with the terrorist attacks.
The White House beat has got to be a joke for real journalists these days.
January 23rd, 2008 at 2:42 pmLBJ, goaded into Vietnam by the right and the usual democratic fear of "looking weak on foreign affairs", borrowed heavily to fund the Vietnam War, a practice continued by Nixon. The bills coming due in Carter's term led to that period of economic malaise.
Borrowing heavily for a long war is ALWAYS a bad idea, economically, regardless of the merits of the war. And remember, both Vietnam and Iraq have dragged on significantly longer than WWII, which was itself a drag on the New Deal-fueled recovery from the Great Depression.
January 23rd, 2008 at 2:43 pmYou all are SICK!!
Comment by John Kerry
No JK, you are the sick one. The stock market is only one component of a healthy economy and is by far not the most important component. The most important components are salary stagnation, lack of jobs, price of consumer goods, the value of the dollar, consumer and governmental debt and last but not least, the cost of simply surviving. All those indicators are in the sh!thouse and is way more telling than the stock market. You rightards won't admit we are in a recession until unemployment is in the teens and there are no longer any middle class citizens in this country (which is what the Rightards would love to have happen). Also, stock market "corrections" have severe economic impacts on the average citizen. I was once in the stock market and I saw an investment of $600,000 dwindle to a little more than $300,000. That had a very large impact on my net worth and I am no longer in the stock market because of it. Unfortunately many middle class American's retirement funds are invested in the stock market and when it crashes, they are going to be in hurt-city.
January 23rd, 2008 at 2:43 pmAs Nobel laureate Joseph Stiglitz recently noted in Vanity Fair, “The soaring price of oil is clearly related to the Iraq war. The issue is not whether to blame the war for this but simply how much to blame it.â€REMEMBER...
Cheney's secret Energy Task Force meetings happened BEFORE 9/11.
They were divvying up the oil fields of the middle east on maps BEFORE 9/11.
They has the entire thing planned out BEFORE 9/11.
9/11 was the PRETEXT for higher oil prices.
Cheney DID 9/11.
Here's the direct result:
Exxon guns for all-time profit record
Surging crude prices could help the oil giant post the biggest bottom line ever for a U.S. firm; refining margins, rising costs could get in the way.
http://money.cnn.com/2008/01/23/news/companies/exxon_profits/index.htm?postversion=2008012313
How much money went into the liars pockets?
January 23rd, 2008 at 2:44 pmYou are so correct RU. Front page news in the Chicago Tribune show a 100 year old water main that broke. It collapsed the whole street.
I liken Bush's policies to an egg that has this hard exterior but is rotten inside. Now the shell has cracked and the whole world can see how damaged it is inside.
January 23rd, 2008 at 2:45 pmBush's foreign policy is predicated on where the Middle East's dwindling oil supply is located and whether or not an oil-rich country is a threat to Israel. Only a complete dunce would bother to disagree with that. Read this -
"They [the Bush cabal] have been conspiring, working, maneuvering and lying since at least 1989 during the George H W Bush Administration. While things were heating up around Iraq, Kuwait theft of Iraq oil, and leading up to Desert Shield, then Desert Storm, the GHWB Administration implemented another "shield" in the form of Operation Steppe Shield. It was targeted at Kazakhstan and was named for the vast oil and gas reserves in the Kazakh Steppe region of Kazakhstan....That is where Dick Cheney got himself appointed to the Kazakhstan Oil Advisory Board and later...the book titled The Grand Chessboard: American Primacy and Its Geostrategic Imperatives by Zbigniew Brzezinski came out in 1997...when the 20 Year War Plan was [first] conceived and targeted...the Caspian Basin, and the CIA renditions started."
http://www.rinf.com/columnists/news/raytheon-connection-to-9-11
January 23rd, 2008 at 2:45 pmThe inevitable "bite" of a recession has finally taken a chunk of the economy.
Our economy has been drained by a group of schisters on Wall St who would sell out on their mothers and a few no contract leeches that suck on the teat of the war machine. The fast buck was all too tempting.
America will get what it deserves. And the poor and less fortunate will pay the biggest price once again.
And America still holds it head high thinking george w Bush will hold it all together.
And John Edwards may have been shut out, but his mesage will ring true for months to come.
January 23rd, 2008 at 2:45 pmCheney's OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE extends far beyond the Libby/Plame fiasco. This is the tip of a Titanic-sized iceberg. Follow the trail all the way back to 9/11 - and even prior to 9/11.
GHW Bush, Ken Lay, Dick Cheney and Don Rumsfeld conspired to take back the White House from the Clinton regime. They decided upon using Lay's Enron trading platform to create a FAKE ENERGY CRISIS in California to set the stage for the "oil experts" to seize power in order to implement the PNAC plan in concert with the Neocons. GHW forged this alliance when they conspired to plant Lewinski (a Mossad "Swallow") next to Clinton.
9/11 was part of their plan. Bush, Cheney, and the rest all work for David Rockefeller. It is Rockefeller's globalists strategy (with Israel as its focal popint) that is being slowly revealed - piece by piece.
Was it Cheney who ordered Chertoff to kill the Ptech Investigation??? And Remember "Operation Greenquest?†That investigation was killed too!
http://rigorousintuition.blogspot.com/2005/01/michael-chertoff-and-sabotage-of-ptech.html
A tipster was Indira Singh, who has said she recognizes the separate command and control communications system Mike Ruppert describes Dick Cheney to have been running on September 11th as having "the exact same functionality I was looking for (Ptech)."
The Ptech case turned into an ugly dispute last year when company whistleblowers told Greenquest agents about their own suspicions about the firm’s owners. Sources close to the case say those same whistleblowers had first approached FBI agents, but the bureau apparently did little or nothing in response. With backing from the National Security Council, Greenquest agents then mounted a full-scale investigation that culminated in a raid on the company’s office last December. After getting wind of the Greenquest probe, the FBI stepped in and unsuccessfully tried to take control of the case.
Whatever the truth, there is no dispute that the case has so far produced no charges and indictments against Al-Qadi or anyone else connected with Ptech.
What role did Dick Cheney play in killing the investigation into Al-Qadi?
Now, how does Chertoff figure in the Ptech story? It goes back to the turf war of two years ago over Operation Greenquest, "the high-profile federal task force set up to target the financiers of Al Qaeda and other international terrorist groups."
Clearly ptech represent some nexus between the government and terorism that must not be revealed, and Chertoff is just the man to cover it up.
Comverse/Ptech CEO, Kobi Alexander, is central to 9/11 along with Dov Zakheim. Alexander, though wanted on federal charges, is in the witness protection program.
Ask Cheney specifically about Kobi Alexander - and the whereabouts of the $7 trillion of DOD funds stolen by Dov Zakheim to pay for the coup.
January 23rd, 2008 at 2:45 pmThe bills coming due in Carter’s term led to that period of economic malaise.
Comment by PeterW
And, of course, Carter was held responsible for the economic down-turn.
That's what the rightards are hoping for. They hope the recession holds off until a Democrat is in the White House and then they can blame it on the Democratic President.
The mantra of the right....Avoid taking responsibility at all costs".
January 23rd, 2008 at 2:46 pmFormer Head Of Star Wars Program Says Cheney Main 9/11 Suspect
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/april2006/040406mainsuspect.htm
Former Head Of Star Wars Program Says Cheney Main 9/11 Suspect
January 23rd, 2008 at 2:46 pmOfficial version of events a conspiracy theory, says drills were cover for attacks
Good answer Ms Joanne!!
January 23rd, 2008 at 2:46 pmThe Iraq Recession. I do hope this sticks as the label.
Comment by hellinabucket — January 23, 2008 @ 2:09 pm
I'd like to be there with you. Problem is, as horrible as economic downturns are, I'd never want to conflate them with the horrors of war. I'd take a recession today if it meant not one more soldier died in Iraq.
January 23rd, 2008 at 2:47 pmhttp://www.forbes.com/work/feeds/afx/2005/12/18/afx2400383.html
This Forbes article quoting Cheney is interesting:
'It's the kind of capability if we'd had before 9/11 might have led us to be able to prevent 9/11,' Cheney said in an interview with ABC's 'Nightline' program."
Mr. Cheney and Mr. Forbes have something in common...
Now ask yourself what interest Mr. Forbes might have in providing cover for the Administration...give up?
Let's take a look at the list of signatories to the PNAC, shall we?
Steve Forbes actively participated in the following events:
September 2000: PNAC Report Recommends Policies That Need New Pearl Harbor for Quick Implementation:
PNAC drafts a strategy document, “Rebuilding America's Defenses: Strategies, Forces and Resources for a New Century,†for George W. Bush's team before the 2000 Presidential election. The document was commissioned by future Vice President Cheney, future Defense Secretary Rumsfeld, future Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz, Florida Governor Jeb Bush (Bush's brother), and future Vice President Cheney's Chief of Staff Lewis Libby. [Sources: Rebuilding America's Defenses]
The document outlines a “blueprint for maintaining global US preeminence, precluding the rise of a great power rival, and shaping the international security order in line with American principles and interests.â€
PNAC states further: “The United States has for decades sought to play a more permanent role in Gulf regional security. While the unresolved conflict with Iraq provides the immediate justification, the need for a substantial American force presence in the Gulf transcends the issue of the regime of Saddam Hussein.â€
PNAC calls for the control of space through a new “US Space Forces,†the political control of the Internet, and the subversion of any growth in political power of even close allies, and advocates “regime change†in China, North Korea, Libya, Syria, Iran, and other countries.
It also mentions that “advanced forms of biological warfare that can ‘target’ specific genotypes may transform biological warfare from the realm of terror to a politically useful tool.â€
However, PNAC complains that the changes are likely to take a long time, “absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event—like a new Pearl Harbor.†[Los Angeles Times, 1/12/03] Notably, while Cheney commissioned this plan (along with other future key leaders of the Bush administration), he defends Bush's position of maintaining Clinton's policy not to attack Iraq during an NBC interview in the midst of the 2000 presidential campaign, asserting that the US should not act as though “we were an imperialist power, willy-nilly moving into capitals in that part of the world, taking down governments.†[Washington Post, 1/12/02] A British member of Parliament will later say of the report: “This is a blueprint for US world domination—a new world order of their making. These are the thought processes of fantasist Americans who want to control the world.†[Sunday Herald, 9/7/02] Both PNAC and its strategy plan for Bush are almost virtually ignored by the media until a few weeks before the start of the Iraq war (see February-March 20, 2003).
People and organizations involved: Aaron Friedberg, Steve Forbes, Elliott Abrams, Francis Fukuyama, Norman Podhoretz, Henry S. Rowen, Vin Weber, Eliot A. Cohen, Hasam Amin, William J. Bennett, Midge Decter, George Weigel, John Ellis ("Jeb") Bush, Lewis ("Scooter") Libby, Paul Wolfowitz, Donald Rumsfeld, Richard ("Dick") Cheney, Project for the New American Century, Paula J. Dobriansky, Frank Gaffney, Donald Kagan, Steve Rosen, Saddam Hussein, Peter Rodman, Zalmay M. Khalilzad, Dan Quayle, Syria, China, United States, Lybia, North Korea, Iraq, Fred C. Ikle
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/entity.jsp?id=1521846767-2624
Well lookie there!
Mr. Cheney and Mr. Forbes BOTH signed the strategic document which, when implemented, enabled the largest build up in the history of defense contracting, while simultaneously implementing the Energy Strategy plan that was secretly developed in the company of none other than Ken Lay.
And what a coincidence that ABC News is playing its part in helping to push the Cheney agenda. Actually, it didn’t even require wiretapping to catch some of the coconspirators with foreknowledge of 9/11, and ABC News’ crack 20/20 investigative team knows the entire story:
http://www.antichristconspiracy.com/HTML%20Pages/ABCNEWS_com_Were_Israelis_Detained_Sept_11_Spies.htm
Oh look! We’ve come full-circle to the DANCING ISRAELIS!
Any coincidence theorists on the board?
January 23rd, 2008 at 2:47 pmAnd remember, both Vietnam and Iraq have dragged on significantly longer than WWII, which was itself a drag on the New Deal-fueled recovery from the Great Depression.
Comment by PeterW — January 23, 2008 @ 2:43 pm
Good points above, Peter, and this one I quoted makes me wonder how big a factor the borrowing was in prolonging those conflicts. I wonder how much pressure there would be on the leaders to wrap up the military campaigns if we had to pay for them as we went, in higher taxes.
January 23rd, 2008 at 2:48 pmMerger with Halliburton
In 1998, Dresser merged with its main rival, Halliburton, and is now known as Halliburton Company. Dick Cheney negotiated the $7.7-billion deal, reportedly having done so during a weekend of quail-hunting. In 2001, Halliburton was forced to settle the asbestos lawsuits that it acquired as a result of purchasing Dresser, causing the company's stock price to fall by eighty percent in just over a year.
The New Dresser
On 10 April 2001 the Dresser division (excluding the former Kellogg division) entered an agreement to separate itself once again from Halliburton by management purchasing its equity, the new company to be called Dresser, Inc.
The new Dresser is 90% owned by First Reserve Corporation (U.S. based investment firm). It is planning a new IPO for the summer of 2005.
Dresser, Inc. sells, services, and supports products that include: actuators, valves, meters, instruments, regulators, switches, natural gas fueled engines, piping specialties, retail fuel dispensers, blowers, and outdoor payment and point-of-sale systems.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dresser_Industries
Halliburton Iraq ties more than Cheney said
NewsMax Wires
Monday, June 25, 2001
UNITED NATIONS, June 23 (UPI) -- Halliburton Co., the oil company that was headed by Vice President Dick Cheney, signed contracts with Iraq worth $73 million through two subsidiaries while he was at its helm, the Washington Post reported.
During last year's presidential campaign, Cheney said Halliburton did business with Libya and Iran through foreign subsidiaries, but maintained he had imposed a "firm policy" against trading with Iraq.
"Iraq's different," the Post quoted him as saying.
Oil industry executives and confidential U.N. records showed, however, that Halliburton held stakes in two companies that signed contracts to sell more than $73 million in oil production equipment and spare parts to Iraq while Cheney was chairman and chief executive officer, the Post reported.
Two former senior executives of the Halliburton subsidiaries said they knew of no policy against dealing with Iraq. One of them said he was certain Cheney knew about the deals, though he had never spoken about them to the vice president directly.
If he "was ever in a conversation or meeting where there was a question of pursuing a project with someone in Iraq, he said, 'No,' " Mary Matalin, Cheney's counselor, said.
"In a joint venture, he would not have reviewed all their existing contracts," Matalin told the Post. "The nature of those joint ventures was that they had a separate governing structure, so he had no control over them."
The deal was legal, the Post said, and they showed how U.S. firms use foreign subsidiaries and joint ventures to avoid doing business with Baghdad. The practice is not a violation of U.S. law and falls within the U.N.-run oil-for-food program.
The Post said U.N. records showed that the dealings were more extensive than originally reported and than Cheney had acknowledged, however.
According to the report, the Halliburton subsidiaries, Dresser-Rand and Ingersoll Dresser Pump Co., sold material to Baghdad through French affiliates. The sales lasted from the first half of 1997 to the summer of 2000. Cheney resigned from Halliburton in August.
"Halliburton and Ingersoll-Rand, as far as I know, had no official policy about that, other than we would be in compliance with applicable U.S. and international laws," said Cleive Dumas, who oversaw Ingersoll Dresser Pump's business in the Middle East, including Iraq.
Cheney's spokeswoman, Juleanna Glover Weiss, referred the Post's calls to Halliburton, which in turn, directed them back to Cheney's office.
In a July 30, 2000, interview on ABC-TV's "This Week," Cheney denied that Halliburton or its subsidiaries traded with Baghdad. Three weeks later, on the same program, he modified his response after being informed that a Halliburton spokesman had said that Dresser Rand and Ingersoll Dresser Pump traded with Iraq.
Cheney said he did not know the subsidiaries were doing business with the Iraqi regime when Halliburton purchased Dresser Industries in September 1998.
The firms traded with Iraq for more than a year under Cheney, however. They signed nearly $30 million in contracts before he sold Halliburton's 49 percent stake in Ingersoll Dresser Pump Co. in December 1999 and its 51 percent interest in Dresser Rand to Ingersoll-Rand in February 2000, the Post quoted U.N. records as saying.
Cheney has long criticized of unilateral U.S. sanctions, which he says penalize American companies. He has pushed for a review of policy toward Iraq, Iran and Libya.
--
Copyright 2001 by United Press International.
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/6/24/80648.shtml
January 23rd, 2008 at 2:49 pmIn his declaration of military victory in Iraq from the deck of the Abraham Lincoln aircraft carrier, Bush said, "We have removed an ally of al-Qaida and cut off a source of terrorist funding." He also said, "The liberation of Iraq is a crucial advance in the campaign against terror."
Bush said, "The attacks of September 11th, 2001, showed what the enemies of America did with four airplanes. We will not wait to see what terrorists or terrorist states could do with weapons of mass destruction."
Critics have said the steady drumbeat of that message has tied Saddam to the attacks in the mind of the public. A recent poll by The Washington Post found that nearly seven Americans out of 10 believe Saddam played a role in the Sept. 11 attacks, a notion the administration has done little to tamp down.
But retired NATO commander Wesley Clark, in a little noticed appearance on NBC's "Meet The Press" on June 15, charged that "a concerted effort to pin 9/11" on Saddam began in the fall of 2001, and "it came from people around the White House."
It was just weeks after the terrorist attacks that the first link between Saddam and al-Qaida was alleged by the administration.
It came from Cheney, who said it had been "pretty well confirmed" that Mohamed Atta, the man held responsible for masterminding the Sept. 11 hijackings, had met with a senior Iraqi intelligence official in April 2000.
White House National Security Adviser Condoleeza Rice, in an interview aired late Tuesday on ABC's "Nightline," said one of the reasons Bush went to war against Saddam was because he posed a threat in "a region from which the 9/11 threat emerged."
Cheney said it had been "pretty well confirmed" Atta had met with a senior Iraqi intelligence official.
He said "we don't know" whether Saddam was connected to the attacks, but admitted, "It's not surprising that people make that connection."
IT HAS SUBSEQUENTLY BEEN "PRETTY WELL CONFIRMED" THAT CHENEY AND COMPANY LIED THEIR ASSES OFF.
January 23rd, 2008 at 2:49 pmI’ve been calling it the Bush recession.
I like your label, too.
Comment by Frosty Cupcake
I vote for the Bush Recession since it has to do with a lot of other decisions made by this Administration than the Iraq occupation. And the main one was Greenspan and the Bush Administration creating the sub-prime mortgage mess.
January 23rd, 2008 at 2:51 pmDana Perino about the tie between the current U.S. economy and the Iraq war. Perino quickly dismissed the reporter’s question, insisting that the U.S. economy has been “very strongâ€
Very telling that Barbie Perino is talking about a so-called strong economy in the past tense.
January 23rd, 2008 at 2:52 pm#44 That’s what the rightards are hoping for. They hope the recession holds off until a Democrat is in the White House and then they can blame it on the Democratic President.
It's not likely they'll get their wish. I suspect when the numbers come out and are revised, it'll turn out we've been in a recession for 3-6 months already.
They'll try to blame it on the Dem Congress, but I doubt it'll stick.
January 23rd, 2008 at 2:53 pmBut....but...it's been good for the Carlysle Group.
And the "haves" and "have mores."
January 23rd, 2008 at 2:54 pmThe Iraq Recession. I do hope this sticks as the label.
Comment by hellinabucket — January 23, 2008 @ 2:09 pm
I’d like to be there with you. Problem is, as horrible as economic downturns are, I’d never want to conflate them with the horrors of war. I’d take a recession today if it meant not one more soldier died in Iraq.
Comment by Dumb_Fox — January 23, 2008 @ 2:47 pm
actually its about time Americans have been asked to sacrifce for this war. Aside from having our rights taken from us, we have never been asked to contribute to this war and I believe it is one of the reasons why the war drags on. If the recession reminds people that there is an UNNECESSARY war going on, and one of the reasons we are in recession is because of the war, then the Iraq Recession moniker is good enough for me.
January 23rd, 2008 at 2:54 pmThis recession must be put in Bush's legacy account. The borrow and bomb occupation of Iraq and tax policies favoring the wealthy are primary causes of the current (and, unfortunately, future) economic woes of this country. We must make sure that this recession remains in Bush's hands. That's why I like the label "Surge and Splurge Recession".
January 23rd, 2008 at 2:55 pmIt’s not likely they’ll get their wish. I suspect when the numbers come out and are revised, it’ll turn out we’ve been in a recession for 3-6 months already.
They’ll try to blame it on the Dem Congress, but I doubt it’ll stick.
Comment by PeterW — January 23, 2008 @ 2:53 pm
When have the facts mattered to the Republicans? The Repubs will ignore the "R-word" until a Dem is in the WH and then, poof, they will all of a sudden see we are in a recession and will blame the dems
January 23rd, 2008 at 2:56 pmWhen have the facts mattered to the Republicans?
They don't. But they will matter to independents and conservative Dems, and people who might vote R for social issues.
January 23rd, 2008 at 2:57 pmI vote for the Bush Recession
Comment by bilbobaggins — January 23, 2008 @ 2:51 pm
Bush Recession II
On second thought, if you count all Bush ( Daddy and Junior ) recessions this would be Bush Recession III
January 23rd, 2008 at 2:58 pmMoreover, denying the disaster that's painfully obvious to everyone has been really bad for Republican approval ratings: witness Katrina.
January 23rd, 2008 at 2:59 pmJohn McCain (R-Arizona) = "recession" from Arizona?
January 23rd, 2008 at 3:00 pmShrubs Flub.
January 23rd, 2008 at 3:01 pmEight years of living dangerously.
January 23rd, 2008 at 3:03 pmCheney's worth billions.
He is the enabler of all of the windfall oil wealth created since 1999. He was in the midst of the scheme to defraud California using Ken Lay's Enron and has been raking in the profits ever since.
Even prior to that, he did the Bush/Carlyle group a favor by absorbing all of the billions of dollars worth of Asbestos liabilities under the Halliburton banner when he was CEO and bought out Dresser Industries.
Everyone involved in the scheme went short Halliburton for the trip south on the "news" of the Asbestos case against them, then came the "energy crisis scheme" designed to push oil prices higher and predispose the electorate to an OIL ADMINISTRATION.
Then came the SECRET meetings with the oil and Gas CEOs and Alan Greenspan to plan the economic aftermath of the planned 9/11 attack - which Cheney was IN CHARGE OF IMPLEMENTING.
Once Greenspan put the floor in the market, it was all hands on deck for the Halliburton stock rebound and the big payoff for those original investors in Dresser who would otherwise have been killed of Dresser Industries had been forced to take the entire Asbestos liability hit.
They are ALL criminals. This was an attack against our country and a preplanned war - all designed to ensure that the rich not only remained so, but became richer - and more powerful.
Got Facism?
Cheney was at the heart of it all. NORAD and the NSA and Mossad were in on it with him. Israel and Big oil got their "New Pearl Harbor" - just as the PNAC proscribed.
IMPEACH - ARREST - HANG
January 23rd, 2008 at 3:03 pmJohn McCain (R-Arizona) = “recession†from Arizona?
Comment by PatrioticLiberalChristian — January 23, 2008 @ 3:00 pm
good one. You should send that in to the DNC so they can make a commercial out of it.
January 23rd, 2008 at 3:04 pmWe're not quite as bad as the GOP is quite the ticket to run on for the mid-term elections!
Once again, we find outsourcing our government would have been better.
Bush and Cheney consistently come up with the worst of plans. Threat of another war, except this one could go nuclear and right in the heart of oil city. Hyper-inflation caused by obscene profits. Petro-boys are running to the bank with their new found wealth and refusing to deliver the goods. Keep the profits growing with short supply and bankrupt the government to prevent alternative energy investments.
While the bad boys from K-Street to Wall Street to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave await their day in court, we're advised nothing is wrong, this is how America works, and it is all a witch-hunt. I was out-of-the-loop and if that is not true, I was too busy to remember anything I did wrong. Delay pleads for more campaign donations to pay for legal defense. Cheney takes to the sky in Air Force Two to raise legal funds at tax payer expense.
Government reform is swept beneath the carpet of the House and the Senate. The carpet bagging energy boys are coming back to town to tell American's how business is done.
Bush & Cheney decide nothing can be done. There is no fix. The national energy policy cooked behind closed doors in Cheney's bunker is a wonderful success. All campaign donators are immensely rewarded. It's a clear message, give to the GOP and you'll get unitary decrees.
It is time to calm the hungry and depressed. Give the voters a 100 dollar bill, a loan from China. Add it to the Bush deficit and recapture it in cuts to education and healthcare services. Senator Stevens says great deal but what about me? Those hundred bucks sure don't come free. Let's add the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, we can sell it twice, first to the voters and then to the beasts.
By: Elucid on April 28, 2006 at 08:27am
January 23rd, 2008 at 3:05 pmPolice State
One of the first steps in the creation of the Nazi police state was the elimination of dissent. Opponents of Hitler's regime, including liberals, socialists, Communists, trade unionists, and intellectual dissidents, were imprisoned in concentration camps. The first camp was at Dachau, a small town near Munich.
http://www.ushmm.org/museum/exhibit/online/olympics/zca008.htm
Hitler and Economic Recovery
Hitler Appointed Chancellor
To win emergency powers, Hitler needed a two-thirds vote of approval from parliament. With his new numbers in parliament and the support of conservative and middle-road politicians, he won his two-thirds. The only party to oppose the emergency powers (the Enabling Act) was the Social Democrats. The Communists, whose votes would have prevented a two-thirds majority were not present. They had been arrested.
Armed with emergency powers, Hitler now moved against the Social Democrats and their trade unions. In May and June their headquarters were occupied. They were declared illegal and enemies of the people and the state. More Communists were arrested and imprisoned, along with socialists, liberals and trade unionists - all those deemed by the Hitler regime as dangerous Leftists. The first concentration camps appeared, to number about fifty by the end of the year, some of them established by Himmler's SS and some by the Brown Shirts (the S.A.). Despite the continued German proclivity toward order and legality, a few of the political prisoners were murdered, and some graft appeared as a few were ransomed to relatives or friends.
http://www.fsmitha.com/h2/ch16.htm
January 23rd, 2008 at 3:06 pmhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_Inmate_Labor_Program
Wikipedia:
Civilian Inmate Labor Program -
The Civilian Inmate Labor Program is a program of the United States Army provided by Army Regulation 210-35[1]. The regulation, first drafted in 1997 and went under a "rapid act revision" in January 2005, provides policy for the creation of labor programs and prison camps on Army installations. The labor would be provided by persons under the supervision of the Federal Bureau of Prisons.
Prison camps
The regulation also sets forth policy for the creation of prison camps on Army installations. These would be used to keep inmates of the labor programs resident on the installations.
In January 2006, Kellogg, Brown and Root reported that they had received a contract from the Department of Homeland Security to expand ICE DRO facilities "in the event of an emergency influx of immigrants into the U.S., or to support the rapid development of new programs."[3] A February news article comments that the "new programs" mentioned could include the Civilian Inmate Labour Program.[4] ICE has "joint federal facilities" with the Federal Bureau of Prisons.[5]
External links
1. ^ AR 210-35 Civilian Inmate Labor Program (PDF) (2004). Retrieved on 2006-03-09.
http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/47/17936
Bush's Mysterious 'New Programs'
By Nat Parry
Consortium News
Tuesday 21 February 2006
Not that George W. Bush needs much encouragement, but Sen. Lindsey Graham suggested to Attorney General Alberto Gonzales a new target for the administration's domestic operations - Fifth Columnists, supposedly disloyal Americans who sympathize and collaborate with the enemy.
"The administration has not only the right, but the duty, in my opinion, to pursue Fifth Column movements," Graham, R-S.C., told Gonzales during Senate Judiciary Committee hearings on Feb. 6.
"I stand by this President's ability, inherent to being Commander in Chief, to find out about Fifth Column movements, and I don't think you need a warrant to do that," Graham added, volunteering to work with the administration to draft guidelines for how best to neutralize this alleged threat.
"Senator," a smiling Gonzales responded, "the President already said we'd be happy to listen to your ideas."
In less paranoid times, Graham's comments might be viewed by many Americans as a Republican trying to have it both ways - ingratiating himself to an administration of his own party while seeking some credit from Washington centrists for suggesting Congress should have at least a tiny say in how Bush runs the War on Terror.
But recent developments suggest that the Bush administration may already be contemplating what to do with Americans who are deemed insufficiently loyal or who disseminate information that may be considered helpful to the enemy.
Top US officials have cited the need to challenge news that undercuts Bush's actions as a key front in defeating the terrorists, who are aided by "news informers" in the words of Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld.
Detention Centers
Plus, there was that curious development in January when the Army Corps of Engineers awarded Halliburton subsidiary Kellogg Brown & Root a $385 million contract to construct detention centers somewhere in the United States, to deal with "an emergency influx of immigrants into the US, or to support the rapid development of new programs," KBR said. [Market Watch, Jan. 26, 2006]
January 23rd, 2008 at 3:08 pmsheesh, plunger is on a cut & paste binge again.
January 23rd, 2008 at 3:11 pmLong cut and pastes, all of it offtopic
Later, this thread is too hard to follow now.
Is there any way to Ignore this plunger guy.
January 23rd, 2008 at 3:11 pmThis is a great post by Think Progress. The Democrats have merge these issues together (Iraq and the economy), and point out to the people that the economy suffering is directly connected to staying in the Iraq War endlessly. The Iraq War is directly connected to soaring oil prices. The Iraq War is directly connected to our enormous budget deficits.
If people think Iraq exists in a bubble, and that it doesn't affect their lives in any way, they won't really care if it goes on and on.
January 23rd, 2008 at 3:13 pmBush shortchanged our troops when he sent them to Iraq to fight his illegal war based on lies.
One of the proposed stimulus would be to give a one time rebate of $800 to singles and $1600.00 to couples. That isn't going to do anything to stimulate our economy. We need good paying jobs in this country to stimulate the economy. Bring our jobs home and then people will have money to spend. The only businesses that will benefit by this measly consumer rebate will be the credit cards and the food industry.
January 23rd, 2008 at 3:13 pmWhen the market was going UP, UP, UP the lib media and websites and liars like Olbermahn NEVER mentioned it! Why, because it was GOOD news and GOOD news is BAD news for you cut and run cowards!!
Comment by John Kerry — January 23, 2008 @ 2:13 pm
Apparently you haven't been watching the stock market for the last 7 years. It hasn't been going up, up, up since GWB took office. Currently it's 11% higher then it was 7 years ago. It hasn't been keeping up with inflation at that rate. A correction comes when people feel the market is overvalued. When a slump in the stock market comes at a time when the stock market is low, that's not a correction, that's a shitting indicator for the stock market. China can call this a correction, their market doubled last year. The U.S. is underperforming and has been for 7 years. It is you who has no idea of how the stock market works, or in this case, does not work.
p.s. the stock market is also a very poor indicator of how the U.S. economy is going. Look at the value of your $, your annual deficits, your total debt, your debt/GDP%, your trade deficit. Look at all of the indicators and you'll see a very unhealthy environment in the U.S. Other markets will tumble as well as a result of the U.S. mismanagement but at least they were performing well prior to this... they can afford it. Their $ has some value. You can't say the same but you probably have a negative net worth so a plunging $ is actually good for you!
January 23rd, 2008 at 3:14 pmThe Iraq Recession. I do hope this sticks as the label.
Comment by hellinabucket — January 23, 2008 @ 2:09 pm
Keep saying it and post it everywhere and by election time, the candidates will be saying it, too. Ah, the beauty of the Internet(s), those magical, interconnecting tubes.
January 23rd, 2008 at 3:18 pmgreat posts plunger.....keep em comin.
January 23rd, 2008 at 3:22 pmgreat posts plunger…..keep em comin.
Comment by Fred — January 23, 2008 @ 3:22 pm
Thanks a bunch, Fred. Now that you've got your new ISP it's suddenly OK for plunger to spam every thread on TP.
Why don't you help him set up his own blog, instead?
January 23rd, 2008 at 3:24 pmJust one more year and Paraguay gets a very unpopular war criminal.
Hope they nab him before he flees the country.
Bush/Cheney
Hague Trials '09
Buck Fush
January 23rd, 2008 at 3:31 pmgreat posts plunger…..keep em comin.
Comment by Fred — January 23, 2008 @ 3:22 pm
Thanks a bunch, Fred. Now that you’ve got your new ISP it’s suddenly OK for plunger to spam every thread on TP.
Why don’t you help him set up his own blog, instead?
Comment by gummitch
I tried to have a discussion about this and was shut down by katy and some of the other regulars......I did what I had to do to survive....take it up with those who made the decision...it was not me.
January 23rd, 2008 at 3:36 pmI love seeing the rantings of John Kerry. He seems to have some real issues intellectually, sexually (makes them very hostile until they accept being gay), and emotionally.
1. This is not a correction. A correction comes when there has been an over valuation of stock. Usually this is caused by overbuying bidding up the price of stocks.
2. A correction usually calms down an overheated market. Rarely will a correction spread world wide.
3. This is a global downturn. It occurs because of specific weaknesses in the impacted economy. In this case, President Bush has created excessive current account debts fueled by foreign loans. You cannot indefinitely import more than you export. Bush further relied upon consumer spending to shore up the economy after the tech bubble burst. Again, this cannot be a long term economic solution. Third taxcuts failed to stimulate the economy since they were geared to wealthy taxpayers who would not convert this into spending and corporations who maintained very low levels of employing additional investments capital or profits. Fourth, debt problems are becoming worse because of the off book deficits to pay for the war. Fifth, deregulation of the mortgage market and encouragement of home buying by this administration to maintain consumer spending exacerbated the problem. We see an international downturn because the rest of the world now realizes that the US economy is in weak condition. Their holding of US debt and a falling dollar impacts the value of investments in the US.
Yes, Mr. Kerry, I do understand the stock market. Unfortunately, you do not.
January 23rd, 2008 at 3:37 pmReply to #10, John Kerry: As usual you swallow the kool aid and make excuses for this screwed up administration. This CORRECTION that you speak of wasn't predicted, it was caused. Caused by that bone head moma's boy you guys love to love so much. That idiot didn't have a clue when he took office and still doesn't to this day. This idea of small government is to create the largest increase of government in history (Dept of Home Land Security). Also he spied on the American people illegally, tortured prisoners, stood by during Katrina and told Brownie the was "Doing a heck of a job". It doesn't take a lead weight to fall on me to figure out this idiot couldn't run a carwash, not to mention a country.
Yet fools like you just go charging straight ahead without thinking, blindly following him off a cliff. When will you wake up and realize that a monkey couldn't screw things up any worst if he made decisions by throwing a dart at a board full of bad ideas. I understand party loyality, but come on man, what planet have you been living on for the last 7 years? Pluto? Regardless of what you think, history doesn't lie and it will show this guy is the worst leader we've ever had. If he's not you can eat your hat.
January 23rd, 2008 at 3:55 pmJust another episode of : The Triumph of the Idiot Chimp! An extended criminal war designed to crash the economy.
January 23rd, 2008 at 4:07 pmBut But But Wolfowitz said Iraq was floating on oil and that this Freedom Operation/Democracy experiment / rebuilding of Iraqs infrastructure would pay for itself!!
January 23rd, 2008 at 4:15 pmAren't the underlying causes of the slowdown problems in the housing and credit markets? We had high oil prices during the last quarter, too, when growth was 3.9%, so I'm not sure I buy the link between the war and the slowdown/recession.
Also, I understand using tax rebates as a form of relief, but can someone make a case for rebates as an overall economic stimulant?
January 23rd, 2008 at 4:22 pmDid prolonged U.S. presence in Iraq lead us into a recession?
http://www.youpolls.com/details.asp?pid=1619
.
January 23rd, 2008 at 4:35 pmTake out a Quarter or a Dime and look at it's edge. That coppery, penny like color first appeared in 1964. Before that, these coins were all silver. Where did all that silver go???? Why to finance the Viet Nam War of course.
January 23rd, 2008 at 5:01 pmIn February 2003, Rupert Murdoch ("Murdoch the Malefactor") expressed his support for the then-pending invasion of Iraq and stressed the potential economic benefits of such action. "The greatest thing to come of this to the world economy, if you could put it that way, would be $20 a barrel for oil," he told The Bulletin, an Australian magazine, in a February 12, 2003, interview.
January 23rd, 2008 at 5:20 pmDumb Question: Isn't Ronald Reagan, the patron saint of the neocons, credited with ending the cold war through a process of forcing the USSR to spend more on the military than it could afford ?
So if Reagan could destroy the Soviet economy through forcing huge payments for the military, why wouldn't the same strategy work on the USA economy ?
Oh Wait ......It did. That Osama is a tricky one.
January 23rd, 2008 at 5:20 pm"No one could have anticipated . . ."
January 23rd, 2008 at 6:02 pma. the insurgency
b. the dikes would break
c. the recession
d. all of the above
Obviously, those economists who predicted such an outcome were not appointed by the Dumbya...
January 23rd, 2008 at 9:10 pmThose tax breaks really look like Ancient Rome Emperor's policy, when the people was discontent they just poured money to every Rome´s household.
January 24th, 2008 at 8:43 am